Why are they giving Snyder a third chance?

They're playing the long game, they know he'll be venerated as a genius in years to come.

Because they have good taste.

>>91465684

Nepotism and waiting for a better director to come along. It's what Marvel did when they booted Whedon and placed it in the hands of the Russos.

>>91465684
>91465684

two really good succesful movies

>>91465684
Snyder sucks enough for the entire DC brand so the comics and cartoons can be good.

>>91465723
>tv directors
>good
pffft

>>91465734
But Snyder doesn't suck?

>>91465684
Because Snyder is amazing and you're too unintelligent to see it.

It would have cost more money to delay every DCEU movie than to continue on its current path. Choosing to start filming 1 week after BvS meant they were really confident in it. Right now, they're not gonna start anything until after Wonder Woman and JL release.

>>91465707
>make some money while making critically panned movies that will be remembered better in the long run
>or make a ridiculous amount of money making fun movies that people will forget in a month

Directors would choose the first option and studios would choose the second.

>>91465684
Aren't Snyder and his wife somehow deeply connected to the finances of these movies?

>>91465748
Shhhhhh that's the secret

>>91465763
This.

Justice League started filming TEN DAYS after Batman vs Superman came out. WB was super confident that BvS would be a masterpiece. They were actually dumbfounded when people hated it.

>>91465684
They give everyone three chances

The wachowskis had Speed Racer, Cloud Atlas and Jupiter Ascending before they were sent packing, pretty sure King Arthur is Guy Ritchie's third as well

>>91465838
The man from U. N. C. L. E. was fantastic though

>>91465875
Not in terms of box office

>>91465838
I don´t know who Guy Ritchie is but the new King Arthur movie looks like shit

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>>91465838
>we could've had a wachowski speed racer trilogy

I remember watching it in theaters the second week it was out. The theater was virtually empty.

>>91465748
So what, he blows? Bites?

> Producer: Deborah Snyder
> Production Company: Cruel and Unusual Films owned by Zack and Deborah Snyder

Gee OP, I dunno.

>>91465966
>I don´t know who Guy Ritchi


/co/ is such a dumb board

>>91465966
Snatch, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, RocknRolla, Sherlock Holmes

>>91467032
>>91467040

not>>91465966
but /co/ isn't /tv/ where directors and shit are assumed knowledge. i envy that this anon doesn't know who he is.

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>>91466061
this

>>91465684
Rumor is they HAVE to for contractual reasons because he and his wife helped to personally co-finance MoS.

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>>91465684
The actual reason is because retards who bought BvS tickets months in advance convinced WB Snyder is the ticket to billions.

So in another of their countless bad choices, they booked JL's production start date for two weeks after the BvS premiere. That put them in a really bad situation because if they stalled production, they'd be breaking a lot of contracts and would be incredibly costly AND would give the appearance of panic.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The really interesting thing is they seemed to realize their mistake, as all the initial plans, such as rushing Flash to cinema, splitting JL into two parts, a Cyborg movie, etc, aren't happening anymore. Just the other week, Aquaman was pushed back 6 more months, signaling they're going to see how JL reception turns out first.

I think no matter what, Snyder isn't coming back.

>>91465875
>Cavill is more like Superman in UNCLE then two DCEU movies so far
God I hate Snyder.

>>91467424
i don't browse /tv/ i'm just from bongland

>>91467424
/tv/ really doesn't seem to understand that people outside of their board don't know creators. Which is odd to me because I definitely don't expect someone from /tv/ to know Andrea Romano even though she's a big name for /co/ stuff.

>>91467581
/co/ is more niche and less likely to fall in the realm of general knowledge than /tv/ though

His D.C. Films have been great. If I have any complaint is it's just too much green screen. I've been reading/watching/everything D.C. Since I first learned to read. Snyder is doing a great job. I'm ready for superman to become the superman we know and love. But Snyder is telling a story. And in this story, both superman and Batman had to hit rock bottom hard, so Batman can care again and superman knows that he is treasured. From this point on the movies will be about hope and justice and not vengeance.


But anon "superman killed zod blah blah blah"
It was his first day on the fucking job, he panicked. He had to kill the last of his people, the only ones who could tell him who he was, to save a small family. He did what he had to and he hated doing it. But he's not a fighter, he relies on his strength alone. He didn't know what to do, so he did what he knew he could do.

"Duhhhh afflict is TERRRRRIBLE duh duh duhhhhh worst Batman ever lololol all hail tiny stark."

All be it, he had a higher kill count then I would've liked, As someone who has been reading the source material for two decades or so, Affleck is the absolute closest thing to the real Batman we've ever had. In many ways. Plus bale,west,keeton,etc have all have their moments, on paper, they're not exactly all that great at being Bruce/the bat. Closest we've had is conroy in the animated series. And that had to be pretty censored so even that's not perfect.
And Batman kills, maybe "kill" isn't the best word, but he'll hold joker down while,a cave collapses on them both. He won't drive a bullet to your skull, but he won't exactly pull you out of a bimb zone building if you're better off dead. A bank robber falls off a roof, he'll catch him. Bane falls off a cliff into shark infested water? Batman will walk alway peacefully.

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>>91467524
Yeah fuck Snyder, this is so OOC

>>91465684
Because his other movies have made money?

Does Snyder write the movies? I thought Goyer did a lot of the writing.

I'm not sure how much Snyder does for coming up with movie ideas, but it seems like WB likes to rehire the same directors for multiple movies (see the Wachowskis, Nolan, Guy Ritchie, Peter Jackson, Affleck, David Yates)

>>91467730
He does a fair bit. I think the Wonder Woman has "story by Zack Snyder"

>>91467638
You do realize that this entire plot point (like so many others in BvS) literally went nowhere right?

In the end they didn't fight because of a clash of ideals and in the end they were friends despite Batman still trampling on people's civil liberties. Hell, even Superman witnesses him doing that AND killing a bunch of people but he just lets him go free.

>>91465684
They don't have anyone else. Who the fuck would be willing to direct JL after BvS?

>>91465684
because quantity > quality, always

>>91465709
Studio execs have no taste. It's actually a drawback in their profession.

>>91467807
How the hell were they friends? Superman is still even hesitant to trust Batman after the fight.

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>>91465748
>>91465760

>>91467828
david lynch helming the dceu WHEN

>>91466061
Deborah Synders has only been a producer on films Zack has been involved in. She's a producer because he got hired for the movie not the other way around.

Zack's company was not the sole production company involved in Man of Steel, BvS, or Justice League.

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>>91467995
>David Lynch's Animal Man

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>3 hour long movies
>4 batman movies in one year
>jumping to JL before establishing their heroes
obviously it's because these people are fucking retarded

>>91468128
I don't get how Snyderfags can delude themselves that hard when they KNOW that WB is trying to undermine everything they like.

>>91467581
exactly. i don't expect people on /vr/ to be familiar with animal man. i've never had to go to /tv/ since it seems like they took over this fucking board.

>>91465684
Because their movie division is STILL a complete mess at WB and Snyder is the only guy they have.

Welcome to Hollywood motherfucker.

>>91465966
The first trailer they came out with was better than the ones that came out later. It looks farfetchd, but it might have some nice looking action scenes. Disney recently hired Ritchie to direct Aladdin soon after he finished with King Arthur or during production.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rbPTQIdjmY

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>>91468063
Ah shit yes

>>91468237
good so he's free of WB

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>>91467807
>You do realize that this entire plot point (like so many others in BvS) literally went nowhere right?
>moving the goalposts this hard

>>91465723
>Nepotism

where do you get this idea from? His wife? She had no idea he was going to direct, Nolan hand picked Snyder himself.


http://www.craveonline.com/site/515353-exclusive-interview-deborah-snyder-talks-man-of-steel-and-easter-eggs


>Deborah Snyder: We met the Nolans on a plane going to CinemaCon when they were there for Inception, we were doing [Legend of the] Guardians, and we never met them before. Yet we were both husband and wife team at the same studio and people kept saying, “Oh you guys have to meet.” So we had a really nice conversation of the plane and we said, “Listen when everything calms down we gotta get a meal together.” So a couple months after that we got a call and Chris [Nolan] had said, “Hey, do you guys want to come over for lunch and grab that meal, and would you mind if we talked to you about Superman?” Zack got off the phone and we were like… [Gasps]! And I said “I don’t know, Zack. I don’t know how…” And he was such a fan of the character, he had different trepidations, right? His trepidation was, “I don’t know how to do this character justice. I’m not sure I know how to do that.” And I was like. “I don’t know how you make him accessible to a modern audience.” But we said, sure we’ll come and listen and they pitched us the idea that Chris and [David] Goyer had for the story. We really felt that they had an in into making him relatable, into making you care about him. But of course we wanted to read the script because the pitches are usually better than the script, and we were so pleased when we read the script. It was a really great way of getting at him. So then it was like, okay… Zack said, “I want to do this. I really want to do this.” And I said, “I feel like they really figured out a way to make this work.” And then I don’t think you can think about what the responsibility is. [Laughs] It’s like, too huge, right? So then you just have to go about your day-to-day.

>>91467807
Exept thatbatman doesn't kill anyone in that escene, the people I'm the car survived under Hollywood logic

>>91468163
>when they KNOW that WB is trying to undermine everything they like.
That seems more deluded tho.

>>91465830
>>91465763
> Right now, they're not gonna start anything until after Wonder Woman and JL release.

But they are already filming Aquaman.

Why do you lie?

>>91465781
see
>>91471010

>>91471025
People didn't like BvS, so they did everything they could to make Suicide Squad and Justice League look like Marvel in order to earn the audience back.

How deluded is that?

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>>91465727
Batman vs Superman made less money then civil war a superhero movie staring superheros that just 10 years ago where c-listers.

>Success

Snyder fags should go back to /tv/

>>91467807
>In the end they didn't fight because of a clash of ideals

Yes they did, Batman didn't believe men could be good while Superman did. These philosophies basically inform every idea and opinion they have in the movie. Batman felt that once someone fell, they couldnt be redeemed. He thought that once Superman fell, like he himself has done, then he would be a menace to society.


> in the end they were friends despite Batman still trampling on people's civil liberties.

They werent friends, but they trusted each other enough to kill Doomsday. Batman doesnt truly believe men can be good again until Superman sacrifices himself. And people forfeit a good deal of their civil liberties when they decide to break the law.

> Hell, even Superman witnesses him doing that AND killing a bunch of people but he just lets him go free.

He witnesses it once, when Batman is going after the kryptonite (which is also the first time he starts killing/manslaughtering). He had just talked to a bunch of citizens of Gotham and knew he had been doing good his whole life but had recently started to fall off. So he gives Batman a second chance, a chance to just quit being Batman.

What, you dont like Superman who believes in the good in all men?

>>91471037
I double checked. Aquaman is set to start principal photography May 22 in Australia. I was wrong there.

>>91465684
I'm starting to think they don't have anyone else

Contractual obligation, of course.

Makes you wonder how much meddling WB will do if WW bombs, though.

>>91471101
And avatar a movie that no one cares about did more than the passion, does that mean there's no Christians??

Stop being stupid, not a single movie with a tone similar to bvs, it was not kid friendly and extremely shitty and had the critics against it. So pretending it didn't do well given what happened it's just dumb

>>91465838
Guy Ritchie did two Sherlock Holmes movies that made bank

>>91468128
that's true they want to release 4 batman movies in one year? how the fuck is that even possible? would each be different? like lego batman, snyder bats and 2 others?

>>91471454

They want as much Batman as possible. Batman sells.

But nothing is really set in stone right now. They're waiting to see how WW and JL do before making any huge commitments.

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>>91471400
Did you just throw random words together to make a sentence?

BvS sucked, MoS sucked

Snyder is a hack. He openly admitted he wanted to "reinvent superman", a character that has been around for like 8 decades.

Batman uses guns for some fucked up random ass reason because Snyder thought it would be "cool".

This is the guy who you are defending.

>>91471555
Don't forget killing off Jimmy Olsen (in a casual way that makes you question if it was even him) just for "shock value".

>>91471454
I was under the impression it was 4 Batman-related things. Like Nightwing, Batgirl, whatever.

>>91471555
>He openly admitted he wanted to "reinvent superman", a character that has been around for like 8 decades.
And has been reinvented numerous times throughout that time period.

>>91465684
N E P O T I S M

E

P

O

T

I

S

M

>>91471555
>Batman uses guns and missiles

Oh fuck I hated that.

It's like his thing not to kill and yet he is fucking liquefying goons with miniguns and missiles left and right

And fucking Snyder called it indirect killing

>>91471598
I see more MCU fans going into DC threads and doing that shit than anything though.

Also, it must be said: DC is desperate for another Nolan trilogy, and they seem to think the key is "dark and gloomy".

>>91471454
https://twitter.com/thejonberg/status/851808726260502528

>>91471448

Because RDJ was the lead.

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S-stop it guys

Our universe won an Oscar haha

>>91471626
Might as well kill Lois too, Snyder doesn't give a fuck about Superman or his supporting characters.

>>91471656
You can't start a universe with a re-invented elsewords superman. That's so fucking stupid it hurts my head. You always start with the best version, post-crisis supes.

>>91471663
Snyder doesn't give a fuck about the characters the only reason he likes them because they have cool moments. That's why there is no character development in MoS or BvS

>>91471555
And remember, he's the guy who said that in Batman Begins at his training montage Bruce Wayne should have been raped and that super heroes talking can't EVER be serious, and then does exactly the same shit in BvS

>>91471663
Its cuz he used Miller's TDKR as a basis.

>>91471823
Except he didn't kill dozens of people with miniguns in that

>>91465684
You realize this movie was to film less then a month after BvS debut.

>>91471840

>A little more like manslaughter than murder, although I would say that in the Frank Miller comic book that I reference, he kills all the time. There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun…I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’

>>91471840

He does shoot that one mutant, but it was only to wound, IIRC. The art for that moment was always kind of confusing.

>>91471775
>You can't start a universe with a re-invented elsewords superman. That's so fucking stupid it hurts my head. You always start with the best version, post-crisis supes.

And yet most of the examples of superman being superman come from ASS which is an elseworlds.

>>91471775
>That's why there is no character development in MoS or BvS
How about Clark (Should I continue to act as Superman, am I needed -> This is my home and I'll protect it)
Bruce (Superman is bad for the world and criminals deserve no mercy after all there's fucking aliens -> Superman was human just like me and people can be redeemed)
Just because you don't agree with what the movies are doing with the characters doesn't mean Snyder doesn't like them, you're not the ultimate grandmaster of all things comics. He's doing his thing, what WB is paying him to do. Can't really blame Zack Snyder for being Zack Snyder.

>>91471791
>he's the guy who said that in Batman Begins at his training montage Bruce Wayne should have been raped
He said that if Batman Begins was an actual dark movie like everyone was saying it was, then Batman would have been raped or something.
Still kinda dumb, but he wasn't saying that's what he would do. Not that it matters, because for as much as people want to bring this up....he didn't put it in his movie.

>>91471951
All-star superman didn't re-invent the character. It told an elseworlds story.

>>91471964
I didn't say the characters don't evolve their positions, I said that they have no development. I have no reason to care about any one of these characters because the screen writing is so bad.

>>91472033
>I didn't say the characters don't evolve their positions, I said that they have no development. I have no reason to care about any one of these characters because the screen writing is so bad.
That's subjective. I cared about the characters. How is it not development?

>>91472193
Because Superman has like 20 lines in BvS, a movie about him

>>91467519

Suicide Squad ruined Captain Boomerang. He doesn't even throw Boomerangs in the movie. He's way too silly. They missed a chance for Captain Boomerang and Deadshot to have a pissing contest to see who is more accurate.

>>91471678
probably because DC fans don't exist

and for good reason

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>>91472316
And?? All of his lines are about his arc in the movie.

And off-topic for this conversation but most of them were very "champion of the down-trodden" which I really loved.

>>91465736
music video directors are kino so why not

>>91472421
A 3 hour superman movie, with about 20 superman lines.

You don't see a problem with that?

Anyway, it's not like I can tell you you are wrong. It's subjective, I can only make the case for why I am right. Even then I'm not going to change your mind.

Snyder at least makes refreshing movies. I'm so goddamned tired of the same marvel quipfest starring down-on-his luck sarcastic guy set to 90s music.

>>91472553
It's a Batman AND Superman movie.
I do wish we could have more Superman but the movie does revolve around him, even if he doesn't get to say much.
>It's subjective, I can only make the case for why I am right.
That's all any of us can do, anon.
I know I'm not going to change your mind either. I just want other people to see what I see in this Superman.

>>91467612
>. I'm ready for superman to become the superman we know and love.
Two movies now you've said it's coming. Soon to be three. How many more until you can entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe it's not happening?

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>>91472590
weird no one else is

in fact it seems what people are tired of is shitty dark DC movies

>>91472421
>that gif
How the fuck would you know Clark? You've worked there for like five days?

It's sad I'm more looking forward to the Injustice story mode then I am of a Justice League movie.

>>91472694
that is sad because Injustice story mode is also going to be shit just like everything else

>>91468128

>4 batman movies in one year

That was a rumor that has been debunked.


>jumping to JL before establishing their heroes

The don't need seperate movies to establish the characters for American and Western European audiences. The Avengers 1 actually takes time to establish the characters in the movie because very many people had never seen the previous movies before going to see that movie.

Whedon liked League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as a model for the Avengers movie and that movie didn't have separate movies to establish the characters. It just had short periods of time near the beginning of the movie to establish the characters similar to what The Avengers 1 had.

>beginning of the movie is a bad guy stealing something
>one of the bad guys is a guy with long black hair who talks with an accent that sounds fancy somehow
>one of the heros is a scientist who transforms into a large muscular monster
>a large part of the movie is spent on a huge aquatic vehicle with a numerous crew
>one of the members of the group of heros acts as an accomplice to the main villain and is responsible for planting explosives on the vehicle
>one of the more prominent members of the ships crew dies dramatically


the sequel to the Avengers also has things in common with The LXG

>evil guy lives in a fortress with lots of snow
>robots being built in the fortress with lots of snow
(in LXG metal armor suits for soliders to wear are being built in the fortress)
>the redheaded woman likes the guy that turns into a monster
(in LXG the guy who turns into a monster likes the red headed woman)

>>91472738
>That was a rumor that has been debunked.
so was the other one but I'm still gonna use it to shit on DC for being shit

>>91472624
You know, I just don't understand why they needed to change superman. The superman in the comics works, it has worked for 8 decades.

I wanted to see MY superman you know. Not Snyder's interpretation of superman.

>>91472738
>The don't need seperate movies to establish the characters for American and Western European audiences
Yes they do, normal people don't know who the fuck Aquaman, Cyborg or Wonder Woman are.

>>91471791
>and that super heroes talking can't EVER be serious,
To be totally fair that's taken out of context and not what he said.
I'm not defending him mind, because what he said was even worse. He couldn't have one specific conversation happen because he was trying to reference a movie (The Heat) and that conversation wouldn't work in costume.

So, rather than make the movie he was hired to do, or the characters he was given, he was more concerned with showcasing his netflix list. And we're supposed to think that's great and deep.

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>>91472389
>. He's way too silly.
Impossible. Captain Boomerang can be many things but he can never be TOO silly.

>>91472734
If it's anything like the first one and the comic it will be so bad it's entertaining.

Unlike Snyders movies which are just horribly boring.

>>91472807
I get that man. To me he is the same, it's just the world around him is different and he has to react to that.

>>91472839
This is goddamn amazing.

>>91465723
>>91465684

Snyder bankrolled development of these movies, as producer

the movies are making a lot of money, even if not much of it is going directly to the studio

they have no reason to part ways and would have to pay him a lot of money anyway if they did, because he's doing what he signed on for

it's not his fault nobody gives a shit about batman or superman any more

>>91471964
>How about Clark (Should I continue to act as Superman, am I needed -> This is my home and I'll protect it)
The problem people with this is that it's an artifical and (perceived as) unnecessary problem. They had to create an alienated loner Clark so that they could spend two movies of him angsting about being an alienated loner only to realize that he was pining for a planet he never knew and could actually have a life on earth. And it took him 30+ years and a loving family and a waifu to figure out that Earth was his home.

Whereas Comics Superman and most of the other renditions have that crisis of faith last for ten minutes (if that) before he mans up and realizes Earth is his home and he'll defend it because he loves it.

Snyder reinvented the character. And that is his right as a creator, don't get me wrong, but how many cells can you change before the body is different? Is the name and the look enough to justifiably be called Superman, or is it something more?

Like, if he was Sentry in everything but name would you still be saying "it's just a different take"?

>>91472738
>The don't need seperate movies to establish the characters for American and Western European audiences.
They do if they want to keep using "refreshing new takes" or whatever we're calling it now. Otherwise we're just gonna have a decade of "Why are they like this?"

If you're intentionally avoiding the familiar then you can't bank on people coming to and expecting that familiarity.

>>91472885
>To me he is the same
I have yet to see evidence of that. He saves people but there's no reason given as to why. Is it because he can? Because he feels he should? Because he really is altruistic? Clark is desperately in need of some character development.

I've seen nothing to suggest this Superman even enjoys helping people. If anything the montage of him saving people in the beginning of BvS made it seem like his efforts to save
people were somehow taking a toll on him or were burdening.

He had zero character development in BvS. He was basically a plot point that the other characters and world reacted to rather than a character.

>>91471964
>Still kinda dumb, but he wasn't saying that's what he would do.

He said it could happen if he was making the movie. As in "If I wanted to make a Batman movie that people called dark, I'd have Batman be raped"

>>91472979
>how many cells can you change before the body is different? Is the name and the look enough to justifiably be called Superman, or is it something more?
>Like, if he was Sentry in everything but name would you still be saying "it's just a different take"?
The core of him is still there. He still cares about Earth and its people and wants to protect it. He doubts his own purpose and existence at first but it doesn't stop him from saving people. That's what he does for 30 years before he puts on the cape. Obviously if he was more like the Sentry I would hate it but the changes are not that drastic. I think the idea that to let Superman be sad is to destroy the character is ridiculous.

>>91473081
>If anything the montage of him saving people in the beginning of BvS made it seem like his efforts to save
>people were somehow taking a toll on him or were burdening.
Their reactions to his efforts were taking a toll on him. He doesn't want to be seen as a god or a menace, because like someone else points out he really is just a man who's trying to do good. But the planet starts to either worship him or demand he leave, and people argue over his intentions and motive when really he's just there to help, and that all makes him uncomfortable.

>>91471010
>“I don’t know how you make him accessible to a modern audience.”
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>91473175
>because like someone else points out he really is just a man who's trying to do good
That's just one of the many suggestions offered by the characters (a political pundit if I remembering right) in the movie. They don't know him. We don't know him, because this Superman never fucking talks. He's a repressed manchild that never articulates himself in a mature way.

>to either worship him or demand he leave, and people argue over his intentions and motive when really he's just there to help, and that all makes him uncomfortable.
Then why doesn't he say something!? It's fucking maddening that Superman himself is an actual reporter, but he never had the fucking idea to speak out to the world. To tell people what he's about. But he can't do that in the movie because that would fuck up the script and all the hackneyed drama they're trying to cram in.

>>91471687
>another Nolan trilogy
Overrated trash?

>>91473486
Where's your Oscar?

>>91473436
I really wanted Superman to testify at court but we just needed that Granny's peach tea to be there.

>>91473175
"He saved people" isn't enough. Because let's be real here, Punisher saves people. Batman saves people. Hulk, in his smashy way, saves people. EVERY Superhero saves people. So "He was saving people so he's Superman" isn't, and shouldn't be enough to define the guy. It's gotta be something beyond just saving people that defines the character.

I can't tell if you agree to that or not though, so I don't think it's a good idea to start arguing what that something is before that.

>>91473746
No memeing. No bullshit. I 100 percent love the peach tea.

Though I do understand wanting a superspeech.

>>91473869
He is more. Anon said that. To the world he's a god. The people are his monument. His is their hope. But Clark never wanted to be a god.

You don't know the first fucking thing about the character if that's what you're going to argue.

He just does what's right because he can and it's right. That's it. Full stop.

He would understandably feel awkward in that role. And yet he fully embraces it and dies for the peoples' sins.

>>91473997
> To the world he's a god
Lame.
#notmygod
#mygodhsahammer

>>91472389
>chickened out on making Boomer a racist, cowardly cunt
>every member is shown almost exclusively in a sympathetic light because it makes them more marketable
>only one played as an actual bad person is killed immediately
>"bad guys" come off better than Batman, who specifically waits until Deadshot is in an alley with his daughter before attacking
This fucking movie, man.

>>91474085
>oh shit, he's right
>better let him know why I really hate Superman

kill yourself

>>91473874
They put so much buildup towards him with focus on how he opens the door and closes it, close ups of his face, just how gentle he was being. And it was all ruined and Superman didn't even say a single word in that scene.

>>91474144
>why I really hate Superman
But I don't hate Superman. Nobody hates Superman, Zack. It's just that he's not a god, he's a superhero.

>>91471917

I doubt he knows anybody who reads comics. At all.

>>91471917
How is it even possible for someone to be this wrong? He obviously didn't read it, but he still talks about something in it, how does this work?

>>91473997
>To the world he's a god. The people are his monument. His is their hope. But Clark never wanted to be a god.
Icon certainly, idol maybe, but god?
No, not really. The weird religious deification of Superman isn't really as big a thing in the comics as it is in these movies.
"He just does what's right because he can and it's right full stop". How is that different from Flash or Wonder Woman?

Now, to me, what's lacking is the secular humanistic elements of his character. The "down hominess". Yes, Clark is just a man, but the way that's traditionally expressed is less through emotional frailty and existential angst and more through an appreciation for simple things like working the fields or playing with his dog or going to a ball game. I think it was Morrison that said it best; Clark is just like us, only bigger. He's less a religious figure and more a larger than life American myth like Paul Bunyan (which is why it makes sense that one of his spin off characters is literally just John Henry).
Yes, he's human at heart, and the thing is, humans are social creatures. They communicate with each other; whereas this Clark is so removed from connecting with people (both of his own volition, his parenting, and circumstances engineered for him via Lex) that Snyder thought it okay to shoot his recurring "pal" in the face for shock value. There's a reason Pete Ross and Lana Lang are a part of the mythos, and they got downplayed to the point that we might as well remove them. But if you do that, you remove a part of Clark's heart and a part of his story.

There's more to humanity than feeling awkward or conflicted or worried, and that's the stuff that's sorely lacking in Snyder's version, that defines the character. And I have a sneaking suspicion that it's about to get derided as "campy bullshit".

>>91472885

This is stupid. You're grasping at straws to escape this decades long void of shit films.

>>91473486
They were better than any MCU movie.

>>91474329

Well said. The defining aspect of Clark has always been that he's a man. Once in a while a writer adds religious overtones. It never really works.

And here we have a director reinvisioning him as a dower loner god.

>>91474338
I don't have to care about the movies, dude. I'd be just fine with my good comics. I just happen to like the DCEU too. I don't know what about what you quoted was "grasping at straws"

>>91472648
I really don't care that normies and SJW critics are bitchy that DC movies aren't quippy enough for them

>>91474518
But critics and normies like Nolan trilogy and LOGAN.

Maybe...the DCEU is just shit. Even when they attempted to be quippy, it was shit.

>>91474329
>Yes, Clark is just a man, but the way that's traditionally expressed is less through emotional frailty and existential angst and more through an appreciation for simple things like working the fields or playing with his dog or going to a ball game. I think it was Morrison that said it best; Clark is just like us, only bigger. He's less a religious figure and more a larger than life American myth like Paul Bunyan (which is why it makes sense that one of his spin off characters is literally just John Henry).
This is actually what makes Superman for me, even though I don't like him that much. He may be an alien from another planet but he's just like the rest of us, human.

Are there any Superman issues besides All Star Superman that really show off his human side?

>>91474329
>>91474434
>Icon certainly, idol maybe, but god?
>No, not really. The weird religious deification of >Superman isn't really as big a thing in the comics as it is in these movies.
>Well said. The defining aspect of Clark has always been that he's a man. Once in a while a writer adds religious overtones.

Why are we acting as if I said the opposite? Literally what the fuck are you responding to with that?

the second part of >>91474329
makes sense. I absolutely agree. Some of the best Superman moments, in my opinion, are shit like the Sale page from For All Seasons where he's just looking at the sky, standing in the field.

But where the fuck did anybody get the idea I was talking about the comics? The particular thread I replied to was about the movie Superman.

>>91474655
>Are there any Superman issues besides All Star Superman that really show off his human side?
Something more recent is his Rebirth books. A lot of Dad/Husband Supes.
Also off the top of my head; Up, Up and Away. It was a period when he had no powers and was just Clark, Daily Planet Reporter. It's been a while but I remember a nice part where he and Lois go to some sort of movie and he talks about how great these pretzels are.

>>91465684
Because they keep firing or driving all the other directors away.

>>91474662
Nobody thinks that you're talking about the comics. I brought up comics Superman as a point as to what's missing, and what it's been replaced by. And it's not just comics Superman that has those elements. He had that "human casualness" in Smallville, the DCAU, Lois and Clark, even in his one episode cameo in Supergirl. Pretty much everywhere EXCEPT the Snyderverse. That's why it's the odd thing out.

>>91474655
"A Superman For All Seasons". With "Sam's Story" which was actually posted in the Sunday Superman thread.

>>91474966
>How is that different from Flash or Wonder Woman?

And you think "Human casualness" is what separates him from them?

>>91474518
>the only alternative to grimdark is snark
Life must be painful for you.

>>91465838

I hope you're not implying Speed Racer and Cloud Atlas were bad. Actually, Speed Racer mkght very well be my favourite Wachowski... sisters movie.

Because theyre in too deep to stop now

>>91466035
Shame, too. It succeeded at being the most anime live-action movie I've seen yet. The special effects and cinematography were bitchin' as well, I don't think there are any films nowaday that don't overuse orange and blue instead of using primary colors.

>>91474655

All Star is one of the iffiest at that I think. (Aside from the death of Pa, it did that fairly well.) Most good Superman stories have that as a through line.

Last Son? Superman goes straight to his parents for parenting advice.
Trinity had good bits on why he and Bruce are bros despite... you know... Bruce.
Any really good story with Jimmy has Jimmy being a bit of a dork, but Clark being a good older brother type friend, even if he's also freaking Superman.

It's hard to quantify. It's all these little moments sprinkled throughout the characters history.

>>91473148
You're agreeing with that guy, you idiot.

>>91472959
>nobody gives a shit about batman or superman any more
Two of the four capecomics characters that sell well solo, the others being Flash and Spider-Man.

>>91471175
>"No one stays good in this world."

>>91467519
>The really interesting thing is they seemed to realize their mistake, as all the initial plans, such as rushing Flash to cinema, splitting JL into two parts, a Cyborg movie, etc, aren't happening anymore. Just the other week, Aquaman was pushed back 6 more months, signaling they're going to see how JL reception turns out first.
You know, it's a damned shame if Aquaman ends up getting canned, because it's pretty much the only DCEU project that actually seems like it could actually be pretty decent.

>>91465684
They can't afford anyone better after these recent flops

>>91471663
>Snyder called it indirect killing

In the Ultimate edition of BvS, the warehouse scene where bats goes to save supes mom has a little extra bit at the beginning where batman flies in and gets fired on by some mook in the back of a pickup.
Bats points the bat plane at the guy, and unloads cannons onto the vehicle until it fucking explodes.
Like that guy got fucking murdered, straight up and he has the nerve to say it was indirect killing?

>>91465707
You mean months to come. Time is ticking, people are afraid!
>>91465709
Also this.

>>91476768
Shouldn't have been in the vehicle!

>>91465779
>implying anyone gives a shit about directors of cape movies
Literally the only two exceptions are Burton and Nolan, and neither of them is primarily known for their Batshit.

>>91465684
Being able to juggle an A list cast and a monster budget isn't a skill every director can do.

>>91465763
> Right now, they're not gonna start anything until after Wonder Woman and JL release

Meanwhile, Marvel is already filming Infinity War, which is FIVE WHOLE MOVIES ahead of what's come out.

Why can't DC just show some confidence?

>>91474325
>How is it even possible for someone to be this wrong? He obviously didn't read it, but he still talks about something in it, how does this work?
Can anyone submit this post as a /co/ banner?

>>91474329
>>91474434
>>91474655
Well said.

I think it's funny how DCEU defenders talk about how they emphasized the 'man' part of Superman, showing his struggles and his humanity, when he is arguably the least human version of Superman ever put to screen.

The man literally NEVER really interacts with anyone aside from Lois or his mother. That's not Superman. Superman, from what I've taken from years of reading comics, watching the cartoons, and so on, has zero issue with socializing with people, be it with other superheroes or ordinary folks on the streets whom he's vowed to protect - even if it's just small-talk. I think Snyder has mistaken being social with other people with being able to relate to others. Superman can still have difficulty relating to ordinary people, but there's no reason why he can't have a warm, friendly conversation with someone who he just saved or professionally bring an emergency medic up to speed with someone who needs medical attention. That the DCEU Superman's only links to humanity are LITERALLY only Martha and Lois, to the point where he'd stop being Superman so early in his career if they ever died, just makes him incredibly removed from any humanity that it's actually somewhat disturbing.

>>91475169
I picked those two at random, but yes. Especially in the case of Wonder Woman, although that depends on the writer as Wonder Woman is almost as inconsistent as a Hawk character.

It's not just a matter of human casualness, but the context of who it's applied to that makes Clark unique. He's a guy that can throw planets, but he just wants to throw a football. He WASN'T born of earth, he actively chooses it as his lifestyle. He's a big figure, but his dreams are surprisingly small considering that. That's different from guys like Flash that were born human and became great; Clark's greatness is innate but his humility in the face of that is why he's so personable.

Having said that, those are originally intended two different points.You said you like how Snyder shows Clark is just a man in AND that Clark does the right thing. I'm saying that there's more to a man than existential angst AND doing the right thing isn't special or unique to him enough to be much of an argument by itself alone.

>>91471775
>>91471663
>>91471555
>>91471400
>>91471101
>>91471791
are you guys retarded? The movie makes it a point that Batman killing is bad and not his usual self. Its not portrayed as being a good thing that he kills. Alfred almost quits over it.

>>91472671
its been 2 years, in universe, since MoS anon, are you dumb?

>>91477064
Think that has more to do with wanting to get as many Stan Lee cameos as they can before he kicks the bucket. I don't think he's done the infinity cameo yet though since last I heard he was only ahead 4 movies

>>91465779
Being remembered as shit is worse than being harmless and forgettable

Mark my words Thor 3 will outgross Justice League

In fact, it will also getting better reviews and a better audience reception.

If none of those things happen, I will never post here again.

>>91477250
> That the DCEU Superman's only links to humanity are LITERALLY only Martha and Lois,

But thats not true, we literally see Pete Ross give him a helping hand, AND he and Lana are at his funeral. They just dont focus on it and Lois has ALWAYS meant the most to Superman. Shit, the same thing is basically the premise for Injustice and thats meant to be an off shoot of (at the time) main continuity DC universe.

Its the combination of Batman going full crazy and him losing Lois that creates evil Superman, and there is obviously some Darkseid influence in there too. DCAU Superman was able to be turned evil WITHOUT the death of a Lois.

>>91477940
Just put Loki in JL, problem solved

>>91465707
buddy its been 6 years and Sucker Punch is still a terrible movie, i wouldnt keep my hopes up

>>91473504
how are those razzies treating you?

>>91471626

The butthurt over Jimmy never stops being funny.

>>91474325
>He obviously didn't read it

Plenty of people actually have read that scene in DKR as Bruce shooting the guy between the eyes.

>>91465830
So were the Snyder fans.

Remember when they thought Rotten Tomatoes was a useful barometer of criticism?

>>91477250
>The man literally NEVER really interacts with anyone aside from Lois or his mother.

That's blatantly false. What you really mean is that he doesn't hang out with people and have casual small talk. And that's a shitty argument because it's entirely superfluous.

>>91478243
>And that's a shitty argument because it's entirely superfluous.
While that anon's statement is hyperbolic, this is as well. Casual small talk informs on Clark's character; and that's not superfluous. Least of all when such a big deal is made in these films on how "the world treats him like a god but he's just an average joe". Maybe if he sat down and had a cup of coffee with a beat cop like he does in the comics, that wouldn't happen as much.

>>91467666
300 was his last and only real hit. All his subsequent movies have performed well below expectations, Sucker Punch being an outright bomb, and MoS making barely half of what was expected. http://variety.com/2013/film/news/warner-bros-sets-bar-high-for-latest-and-priciest-incarnation-of-superman-1200493334/

>>91478323
>MoS was expected to make 1.5 billion and be Warner's biggest film ever
Lol absolutely not. Your next line will be
>750 Million is not a blockbuster

>>91478243

>And that's a shitty argument because it's entirely superfluous.

Establishing character is superfluous?

We never get a sense of who Clark Kent is, the movie only cares about Superman. The entire other half of his persona is useless to Snyder, and I really think if he could he would write that whole part of his character out entirely because it doesn't serve his Randian conception of a hero being someone who has to sufferer the hatred of the plebes and will never understand or interact with them in any meaningful way.

It's why there's no Luscious Fox or any real characters at Wayne Enterprises either. Snyder's interest is in the suffering of the cape, not them as people having human interactions outside their immediate circle.

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I still have hope that DCEU's issues will be sorted out, and both sides will continue to put out great movies.

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>>91471075
>> Warner Bros. is honestly putting in effort to win the audience back
>> Not just Tsujihara covering his ass

>>91478379
Yet he is so embarrassed by the source material he refuses to have extended scenes of them talking in costume. A true retard's catch 22.

>>91474325
Snyder has diagnosed dyslexia and is reportedly barely literate.

>>91478379
>We never get a sense of who Clark Kent is

He's a guy who just wants to do good and doesn't want to get involved in the politics of things. It's pretty clear in the movie. You don't need Clark talking about coffee in the Daily Planet between Perry shouting at him.

>>91478677
by this logic we don't need Superman saving people, we can just be told it like the movie tells us Clark is good. Really it should just be 2 hours of Lois and Clark fucking, the rest is implicit.

>>91478699

You are shown that Clark is a good guy who cares about people, both in BvS and in MoS. Him talking about it just isn't the focus because that's spoonfeeding you his character, rather than showing it through his actions.

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>>91478399
Thought his pet was the corgi?

>>91478677

>He's a guy who just wants to do good and doesn't want to get involved in the politics of things

But that's all we know about him. His entire personality is gleaned from his conversations with Lois, as far as we can tell the only person he has ANY connection to beyond his goddamn mother is his girlfriend.

The whole movie is insular to a fault. It makes it seem less like he wants to do good and more like Amy Adams fucks so well that he does heroing due to her being a good person and wanting to impress her.

I don't think Snyder gets how weird he made their relationship in BvS. it came off even creepier then SuperStalker in Superman Returns. He feels more like Dexter Morgan then Superman.

>>91478729
He didn't care enough about Jimmy to stop that bullet in time

>>91479118
Jimmy wasn't a friend form work.

>>91477795
Lol, you shouldn't have picked those two at random. You sound like an idiot.

I suppose I shouldn't have expected anymore from a person saying "human casualness". Seems you know quite a bit about being casual.

>>91478729
>You are shown that Clark is a good guy who cares about people
Does he though? Why? Most of us all care about people, but what makes Clark decide to be Superman and save the people? We have zero insight into his motives or emotions, because he never speaks. The most insight we gleam is from his very brief scenes with Lois and his mother. In MoS, Jor-El offers some bullshit about how Superman can show them a better way, which is kind of bullshit because not everyone has the power of a god.

>>91481529
His motivation is literally hearing the cries for help from every single person in the fucking world.

>>91477908
That's loser talk. I would know.

>>91481643
When is this shown or stated? We're forced to extrapolate his motives from the comics and other media we know him from because this characterization is so thin.

>>91481695
of course you would, you're the one defending these shitty movies

>>91465684
>implying they are

this will crash and burn like all DCEU films

>>91481793
JL is his third chance anon. It's slated that he'll be JL2's director but that would be the 4th chance.

>>91465734
This. He concentrates all the bad parts into him and the movies, so Rebirth and Young Animal can be awesome. It's actually really nice of him.

>>91465838
Speed racer was actually really good, it just had shit marketing

>>91482227
well there isn't going to be a JL2 so you have nothing to worry about

>>91482390
Lol

>>91481793
>3 movies
>2.2 billion dollars
>1 oscar

Cant wait for the reboot

>>91474135
It really wasn't a Suicide Squad movie. It was Harley Quinn and Deadshot, at best. There was nothing "Suicide Squad" about it. It had none of the sharp characterization or storytelling that made the Ostrander run work.

>>91482722
I can't wait for the reboot to fail just as hard as this is

thankfully neither of us are going to have to wait very long

>>91477855
Yeah, I'm sure they scheduled the entire shoot of a $300million movie filled with a-list actors around a 3 second cameo by Stan Lee.

Are you retarded?

>>91465684
This is the fourth chance with a DC property actually

>Watchmen: flopped
>Man of Steel: underperformed
>Batman v Superman: near flop, made less profit than Man of Steel
>Justice League: ????

I mean he was already kicked off the Justice League sequel so that doesn't give hope for this movie.

>>91486500
This. It's really odd how WB keep on giving him chances, actually.

How much do you wanna bet WB is going to regret ditching Miller's script over Snyder's. Anyways, why didn't they let Miller have another chance he could had made a masterpiece with nine or more oscar nominations/wins, just look at Mad Max: Fury Road. It could have been great.

>>91478427
Are those not the same thing?

>>91478399
Please leave, Anon, you're too pure for this retched place and it's making me sad.

>>91478399

We all thought Suicide Squad was going to be the turning point and savior of the DCEU and it turned out to be the worst with the most executive meddling. The next installment is a action/adventure film with a director who's only ever directed small indie films and the starring role headed by a thin model who can't act, followed by Snyder 3.0. No thanks, I'm out.