Paranatural

I'm trying really hard to be excited for this comic anymore, but the pacing is so awful. I should stop reading for a while and coming back after several of updates.

I miss hitball

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Not one, but three reaction images

>>91340310
oh boy i bet he's gonna say something wacky while making a wacky face, thus completely ruining the tension

>>91340310
Max is best boy.

Suzy a shit

>>91340489
>>91340501
>>91340521
Why are they enlarged and blurry.

>>91340310
i find it really hard to give a fuck about this whole supblot. i like this student council guy's design though.

>>91340310
>genuinely funny and endearing 3rd panel

Can we please just stick with this, Zach? Just fun supernatural stories with kids being goobers?

>>91340521
I actually really liked this joke this week

>>91341233
zach is typically not too bad with the humor, honestly. i've still laughed at a lot of the newer stuff. it's moreso the art, pacing, and general storywriting that he falls flat on

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>>91340310
Oh come on, any competent person would have made this a 2 page update. There's a difference between a cliffhanger and having it feel like a page is missing. Fuck.

>>91341577
Woah there, Zack already has trouble getting two pages a week and skips updates on the regular, so a two-page update ? Too much.

There's no reason this and the last update needed to be separate pages.

>Last panel includes half of the conversation

I wonder what kind of WACKY TWIST we'll see Tuesday.

>>91340310
This was a good page.

Today I dreamed Zack made his comic private, and that you had to pay $2 por every new page.

>>91340310

I forgot that the bus jumping was such a big deal.

When it happened I thought it was just a funny gag.

>>91340489
Not three, but ONE backgrounds.

>>91340310
This would be a really good half of a page for a single update.

>m-muh pacing
Explain, goobers

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>>91340310
I wish zack would pull more bullshit shenanigans, like he did with the non-binary bs

dissing paranatural's dragging plot progression is stale now, I need new hate material.
goddamn hack is so mediocre he fails to inspire any emotions whatsoever, I cant even hate this page. truly, being mediocre is so much worse than being absolutely and utterly retarded at storytelling. at least the latter is funny to laugh at how bad it is, to the point where it might be considered ironically bad. with mediocrity there's nothing, no emotions, no hopes, no dreams.

>>91343769
I think people are getting too into hating this comic. I guarantee most people here put up with worse shit from webcomics they still keep track of, but somehow this one has gotten everyone's ire for simply not being as good as it could be.

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>>91343829
>but somehow this one has gotten everyone's ire for simply not being as good as it could be.
if someone ruined the thing you loved, wouldn't you hate them for it? Pnat used to be the best thing since the invention of sliced bread and capitalism, but then zack got eaten by the blob of mediocrity, and it really shows in the comic. a mediocre comic that is mediocre all the way through just means people won't care about it at all, but you just stir up resentment if you destroy something that people really like, even if you were the one who brought it into this world.

so yeah, I'll very eagerly get into hating the comic. i've accepted that pnat has failed and will never be the gem I wanted it to be, so I might as well express my disappointment through hateful mockery. just give me some new shit to mock at least ffs

>>91343718
>200 page chapter where most pages are irrelevant

He pads pages when he doesn't need to and it doesn't help the jokes.

>>91341067
>>91341233
Yeah that was pretty good.

First page in a long time that didn't stick out like a pale piece of shit in the catalog

>>91340310
>Have a character announce another character is gay like no one in real life does
>Put the already bloated story to a halt to give a lesson on made up gender politics
>Cliffhanger that probably won't bee resolved until next Friday

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>>91340796

>>91340310
I have to say, at least this page is not useless. I think Zack is at least thinking in closing all the plot points.

>>91340489
This is the most JoJo we've ever been
I like it

>>91346816
>Jojo invented sideways glances

>>91344035
man you're really fucking worked up about this, aren't you?
Just like, enjoy the fiction, bro
>>91346834
All dramatic moments are now JoJo, don't you understand that anon?

>>91345901
>gay
non-binary isn't gay, it's "I'm a rebellious teenager and I don't feel like playing by these made up pointless rules that have never really mattered anyway"

>>91340407
I find this is hard to do with a lot of webcomics that end up getting discussion threads on /co/.

>>91340310
3rd panel and joke make this page a lot better then the last few pages we have been getting.

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>>91346919
I think anon is talking about this

>>91347092
That was a sick burn because literally nobody else can hear her

>>91340310
>The copy and paste for 5 and 7.

I mean, is it acceptable because it's part of a joke I guess?

>>91347124
Yeah, usually he redraws those, so seeing the actual copy/paste is kind of jarring.

>>91346906
webcomics are srs bsns you cuck. i'll have as many overly strong opinions about it as I like grrr

>>91347178
I love you anon but maybe you should consider letting the love enter your heart like a dolphin riding a fist of rainbows

>>91346919
An important distinction to make, to be sure, but I still don't think people announce it like that.

>>91347229
maybe ur rite :(((((

>>91346919
being gay is one thing, but being non-binary because you think penises and vaginas are made-up pointless rules that never really mattered is uh

pretty fucking gay

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>>91347138
The backgrounds are different, and there are some pixel-level differences that suggest he resized it after copypasting.

>>91347401
It's not about penis and vagina it's like
skirts
or something
it's dumb

>>91343829
>Most people here put up with worse shit from webcomics they still keep track of
Well, that makes me not 'most people' then I guess
I only came in this thread to see people complaining about another cliffhanger page in a very slow webcomic. Zack has forgotten that Paranatural isn't in a book people can read in one go yet, and has not remembered that for a very long time.

>>91347401
The rules of the English language, which govern the pronoun thing, are definitely pointless and have never mattered. Biology is inescapable, but using the correct words for things doesn't matter in the slightest.

Of course this argument falls apart a bit if the first thing you do after freeing yourself from the shackles of language is to make up some new pointless rules and insist that everyone follow them.

>>91343829
We're all forcing our selves to love the current state

The bus jump thing happened so long ago I keep thinking to myself "why are people in this still talking about it?"

>>91350100
agreed. maybe it wouldn't seem to be such an omnipresent issue if you read the comic all at once, but probably nto

>>91350100
>>91350207

Prime example of the terrible pacing this comic/Zack can't seem to shake.

>>91350207
It's over half the comic ago.
To ANYONE that feels really long for a plot thread like this.

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>>91347092
I think the reason that part annoys me is that Zarei had barely been an established character by then. We expect Isabel/Isaac/Ed/Max/Spender/etcetcetc to act goofy once in a while, they're part of "the gang." But to have a character like Zarei to spend several pages getting absurdly flustered is a little weird. It's like if Forge, Doorman, or Agent Walker did the same thing.

(Although I do wonder if Zarei normally isn't like this and Agent Day may have had something to do with it. She does have infatuation related powers after all, and ulterior motives for using them in an underhanded way.)

>>91352319
If Zack wanted to present the idea that Agent Day has love powers, the Zarei "admitting to being gay" thing was a very poor way of demonstrating that. He could have done it as subterfuge/coincidence, but fuck if that doesn't set the pacing even further back.

>>91352319
>It's like if Forge, Doorman, or Agent Walker did the same thing
I can easily see that happening. This isn't the kind of comic where people are allowed untouched dignity. It could've been handled better, like not just dropped in the middle of another story. And written better. But I'm not opposed to these things in principle.

Her whole thing with her other spirit tools and living in her parents' basement sort of took care of that too before we got into her spagetti spilling with day.

>>91352596
Rereading that part, actually, it wasn't THAT bad. Funny how memory plays around like that. Still, I think it was a little too heavy handed during her lunch with Day. I just feel like Zach has to learn when and in how much quantity those sort of over the top gags fit.

>>91352676
>I just feel like Zach has to learn when and in how much quantity those sort of over the top gags fit.
Very much so, yes.

I really like Paranatural, but I don't understand why Zack wants to use such cheap soap opera tricks that alienate readers. I'd be more exited for the next page if he just said what he's there for. Like, oh, how is Max going to react and such. It would feel like having fun, wouldn't it? But the cliffhanger here just bores me, there is no emotion besides having to wait for Tuesday.

>>91352905
Zack really doesn't seem to get why people are there. Goofy hijinks are fun, but when you make a huge plot arc loom over people like "Who the fuck is this brain monster possessing" people don't care about some dumpy chubby girl with zero plot relevance or known ties to characters already intertwined in the plot.

>>91353050
I don't have these problems with the story. It's supposed to be just another day in school for Paranatural activity club (maybe with a tougher spirit than usually, we don't really know). Suppose dealing with a ghost is as dramatic for them as having a soda with some friends at a cafe. Or being worried about your relationship with your friends. That's fine, even an interesting, original concept. But it's created tension everywhere, equally, in an attempt to be a pageturner and it just leaves me uninterested. If you watch enough horror movies, you don't get thrilled as easily. I know it was supposed to be ironic anime imagery at first, but it's like the south park episode where they can't stop being sarcastic.

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>>91349283
speak for yourself. There's just a hate boner bandwagon and whenever there's a bandwagon like this people who don't agree don't speak up much and don't care to.

I've been reading webcomics for over a decade and don't understand what you're all actually upset about here. It seems you set high standards with little reason. As if you started reading this comic well into it and then after a year of following you realize it's not as fast as you like.

The horror.

Show of hands, who still has Lackadaisy bookmarked and how do you deal with the 3 updates a year?

Slow pacing webcomics 101: put it in a folder that you only read once a month, few months, year, etc. depending on update speed and pacing.

All that said, this webcomic is far from the worst even out of other highly praised comics.

You're all a bunch of finicky fucks. I see nothing wrong with this comic compared to just other comics of its caliber.

>>91353895
You know what the difference between Lackadaisy and Paranatural are, currently?
The former has amazing art. Paranatural's art has been getting worse as time goes on.

>>91353895
I wouldn't be complaining as much if Paranatural's art hadn't regressed in quality.

>>91354170
>>91354229
There are a lot more differences than that, I wasn't comparing them directly, only the pacing coupled with updates.

Also I still think you're all exaggerating the art in the way people nitpick when they're dead set on criticizing something so they want more things to complain about.

I see improvement in form and consistancy but a loss in vibrant color and more detail given to backgrounds. The paneling has been better than it has been in much of this chapter, but not even enough to bitch about.

This is the kind of thing that goes in circles. You're nitpicking one thing, and when that doesn't hold you say the real problem is another thing. Get off the fucking bandwagon.

Put the bookmark in a folder for a few months and revisit this comic later and see if you're still grumps about it.

>>91340310
You still read this comic after Zack the hack turned a joke character into a agenda that he's trying to shove down his readers throats?

LOL?

>>91353895
>he thinks the only problem we have it is the pacing
lol kys

>>91347444
>popularizing trans malarkey only reinforces largely irrelevant gender roles

Yum yum, backfire.

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>>91354917
It's the only problem you have. The rest are petty nitpicks of the kind people come up with when they circlejerk their discontent into disgruntlement, dislike, all the way into a full throttle bitchfest.

It happens every time. Every fucking piece of media on the internet gets it. People feel mildly annoyed with something and after a month or two of threads on the topic they've discovered they hate every facet of the thing and things were way better at some earlier point in time.

No. You're only really mad about one thing, and it's not even a thing. You just made it into a thing and decided to pick at the scenery a bit to justify it all.

>wobbly lines
>correct perspective in 3rd panel

How does he produce these comics? Does he make a series of draft guidelines and then just hand-draw straight lines over them?

>>91355159
So people complaining about anything is unjustified, and mere nitpicking ?
Well fuck you, clearly you haven't seen the threads from a few years ago when anons were praising Zack and Paranatural for being a good webcomic. When it had backgrounds with little things to pick up on, details that people could appreciate. When the story wasn't stuck with more and more useless pages. When the current chapter wasn't 2 years in the making. When the art style was rawer and less bland. When jokes were everywhere. Things have changed. People here expected more. Not everyone, not on every point, but still.

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>>91355159
lol no. Acting completely dismissive of other people's concerns because you are self-inflated and consider yourself to be a "wisened sage on the topic of webcomic discussion" doesn't make me value you're opinion more

I'll be the first to admit that the zack starting to pander to SJW's in the comic left me with a really bad taste in my mouth (inb4 goback2/pol/ hurr), but saying the comic has no problems is denial

The tone of the comic has dramatically shifted from a cool adventure to some bland tumblrcore, not to mention everything is Dramatic! now. Which was a funny shtick at first but now its stale. Zack's gotten lazy with his line quality and colors really have turned bleached & bright as fuck recently. How the fuck can you not notice that. The amount of wordplay & punnery has also definitely taken a sharp downturn, every page used to be full of it, and now its only a rather occasional occurrence, if even that. granted, some people hate puns but I love that sort of stuff. The writing/jokes is taking an upturn in the recent pages, but the date scene with Day and Zarei was actually fucking awful and cringy. is this your first thread because how can you think the pacing is the only problem? the fuck mate

So uh, yea, no, just because you think others are trying to find things to hate doesn't mean you're aren't overlooking or automatically looking past all of its failures. Disliking or liking anything because of some principle really, really changes any person's tendency to look past its failures and be generally ok with it, and this goes double for media like comics & shows. No wonder people started to hate paranatural when it turned tumblrcore. The pacing is an easy and an omnipresent thing to gripe about but fuck off for implying its completely unreasonable to find fault with it.

>>91355963
*No wonder people started to discover paranatural's faults they previously overlooked when it turned tumblrcore.
small but important correction imo

>>91355349
That's a very common practice with digital artists. It keeps the backgrounds from looking unnaturally clean compared to the characters.

>>91355874
No idiot, that's not what I said and if you read more than a line you'd know it. I've been watching this bitchfest build up about this comic. Mild discontent with pacing snowballed into 'everything' being 'worse than before'.

There's no less detail in the backgrounds, they're cleaner looking for one. There are easter eggs, you're all just too upset over the "decline" to really care. "details details details". Looking back there's no less detail, just rougher and thicker linework, which can maybe look like there's more detail to a complete idiot looking for something to bitch about, but a lack of detail is not actually the case.

The complaints about the art quality are greatly exaggerated and nothing more than a nitpick added to the growing bags of complaints you've been collecting.

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How long do you think it will be before this is relevant again?

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>>91356162
>Mild discontent with pacing snowballed into 'everything' being 'worse than before'.
maybe cuz everything actually is worse than before? its ok to realize that zack has grown bored with the comic and doesn't put as much effort into it as he used to.

>There's no less detail in the backgrounds
w-what backgrounds?

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>>91354430
And also a steady decline in interesting angles. Hell, the art wasn't even that bad at around Hitball, there were tons of great pages in that. I don't know why you're so adamant that there are no legitimate complaints with this comic. Just fucking give it up bro, maybe some people who dislike something aren't on a bandwagon.

>>91353895
There's a lot more problems going on with the pacing than just the slow update schedule. If you can't notice it even when reading it in bulk then you just have very low standards for webcomics or haven't actually read enough to make a solid comparison, because reading the early chapters versus the current ones makes it clear as day.

Lately Paranatural has been following this structure of "Character is in the middle of a mission, they're approached by another character, they have a wacky/dramatic conversation unrelated to the current plot, it ends on a joke and the scene moves onto the next vignette." It already existed beforehand, which is fine because it makes for decent joke setups, but as Zack has moved the comic from a lighthearted kids adventure with 40 page chapters to a big anime mystery with multiple conflicting factions with chapters that last 150 pages it's caused a real problem.

Nothings ever moving forward at a satisfying pace. He's juggling a million subplots all at the same time within the same chapter, while ignoring the core story of the chapter to do so. While there's always some development happening, whether it's Zarei's relationship problems or Zack's conflict with the student council, the lack of focus causes the story to crawl along. The gang has been following the teachers trying to find Hijack now for 90 fucking pages and no progress has been made, and that's ignoring the entirety of the chapter before they entered the office and caught up to the in-media res.

Zack needs an editor, or at least someone to look over his rough drafts and help him structure things a bit more. Imagine if he did a chapter about the teachers post-Train and how their situation has changed, then a chapter about Max and his blackmailing, and then a chapter about Hitball and Hijack. Everything would be given the time to breathe and follow a more natural pacing. It works for other webcomics like Gunnerkrigg, and for Paranatural in its first few chapters.

>>91356363
To be fair the lack of angles and action poses is a byproduct of the complete fucking lack of action itself.

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>>91356219
two years
how long until THIS is relevant?

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>>91356439
>we've got a circle of JERKS to report to
kek circlejerk

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>>91355963
>Zack's gotten lazy with his line quality.
False They have improved, become cleaner, and thinned out. Opposite of lazy.
>and colors really have turned bleached & bright

desaturated, but they were oversaturated before. Compare outdoors pages in chapter 2 with current indoors and the color have a much wider range and are better applied, but they're desaturated. Good and bad changes but nothing dramatic. It could just be him trying to make it look more like indoor lighting.

This is a petty nitpick like all the art complaints. Worth giving him so he might take into consideration and improve if he thinks he should, but not worth getting upset over.

>Disliking or liking anything because of some principle really, really changes any person's tendency to look past its failures
Only if you're a childish fuck who has set their mind to being mad and then looks for more things to be mad about. You're not suddenly less forgiving of failures, you're just more picky about everything, which doesn't make the comic bad, it just makes you insufferable.

>I'll be the first to admit that the zack starting to pander to SJW's in the comic left me with a really bad taste in my mouth
>The tone of the comic has dramatically shifted from a cool adventure to some bland tumblrcore

This is all complete nonsense and I can't believe you made me read it. It's made up controversy because you're hyper sensitive to all that fucking tumblr and SJW drama. That's about as much of that autistic splurge as I'm going to humor. You are literally the worst kind of person on this site.

don't expect to be taken seriously if you actually use words like "tumblrcore" for anything but memes anon.

>Cody still doesn't have a boyfriend
Cody getting a boyfriend arc WHEN

>>91356297
>maybe cuz everything actually is worse than before? its ok to realize that zack has grown bored with the comic and doesn't put as much effort into it as he used to.
This is a pattern you'll have to pick up on eventually. Things that you start to get bored with are not getting worse, you're just not as interested in them. Either take a break from them, drop them, or just accept that they won't feel as good as they did before.

The new season of that show you loved isn't shit, it's just in your head.

This comic is not "worse than before". The pacing is more stretched than it should be but that can get better and it's nothing to be really upset with. That's about it.

>>91356529
Clean linework =/= good linework in all cases. It's dependent on what you're going for. And for Paranatural those kind of lines just make it look sterile and bland. There was NEVER a problem with colors being too saturated, and if there was, turning each page into a pastel mess was not the answer
>Plebcomics image
Oh wait, you were born with your shit taste. There's nothing I can do to help, then.

>>91356363
That's an action page from an action scene with only action and no dialogue.

We are currently in a no action part of a less actiony chapter.

You're nitpicking.

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>>91356670
Here's a non-action page with a metric fuckton of word dump. Tell me which looks better, this or the most recent page

>>91356162
>I've been watching this bitchfest build up about this comic
If you did you'd get why anons are disgruntled.

>There's no less detail in the backgrounds, they're cleaner looking for one
There are barely any actual backgrounds anymore. Most panels have bright colors behind the characters. When an actual background appears, like the school store, it's erased in the following pages. Zack did it before, but now it's all over the place. The ratio between cool pages full of things to see and mere colored backgrounds has shifted for something less interesting to look at.

Just look at previous chapters and see the evolution for yourself.

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>>91356529
>become cleaner
absolutey not. I mean, yeah, obviously the very beginning pages of the comic are actually not very masterfully drawn but compared to mid-comic, current lines definitely edge past where they're supposed to end. Kek. Maybe its not noticeable to you but it sticks out to me

>petty nitpick
>dont even nitpick its petty you children

>Only if you're a childish fuck who has set their mind to being mad and then looks for more things to be mad about.
No, that's human nature pal. Get used to it. You see this everywhere.

>oh no he doesn't like muh sjw nonsense
No wonder you are so willing to overlook everything. What was that about being a childish fuck who has their mind to being mad and then looks for more things to be mad about? Couldn't you say that's what you're doing to the very anons itt? lmao.

Listen, I understand that you are obviously feeling frustrated that parantural threads have become very toxic and negative, but daily reminder that adversity inspires greatness. Maybe zack would be in a better place if he came here after every update

>>91356650
>Clean linework =/= good linework in all cases.
It does here.

>those kind of lines just make it look sterile and bland.
and before it looked dirty and bad. A balance is needed between the extremes but I think he'll figure it out eventually. It's a natural pattern for comic artists as they develop their linework.

>There was NEVER a problem with colors being too saturated
I could nitpick why I think that's not the case, but it's not any more a problem than the current desaturation

None of these are big enough problems even together to warrant the bitching these threads have. It's nitpicking and nothing more.

>Plebcomics image
The reason for that pic just went over your head didn't it. That's ok.

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>>91356430
>is a byproduct of the complete fucking lack of action itself.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but
If dialogue and funny faces is the most you can offer for a page, the least you can do is try and punch up the visual appeal.

>>91356798
>A balance is needed between the extremes but I think he'll figure it out eventually. It's a natural pattern for comic artists as they develop their linework.

That's optimistic, but I think he's going for a simpler lazier look to make it easier to churn the comics out. Happens to a lot of webcomics. Look at Penny Arcade, they hit an artistic peak seven years ago and the aesthetic slowly imploded no matter how many people said "it's just a little airborne, it's still good".

>>91356864
This page's dialogue is fucking amazing.

>>91356701
That is a nice page that does show off the use of angles, but not every page is an example of that, and the majority from back then are not that different in their use of angles than any recent ones.

>>91356798
First off
>The reason for that pic just went over your head didn't it. That's ok.
I frankly don't care for what reason you posted some shitty plebcomics drawing of Jon Tron of all things. It's just telling that you have that on your hard drive, bruh

The linework looks like something an amateur would shit out on Paint Tool SAI. It's not necessarily technically bad, sure, but it's so toothless looking.

I don't see why it's hard to understand that, if you enjoyed a comic for certain aspects, then you'd be displeased that each of those aspects took a turn in a direction you didn't like. It's not that all of these things make the comic unreadable, but they cumulatively bring it down to the point where it's only sort of attractive anymore

>>91356709
>If you did you'd get why anons are disgruntled.
And I did.

>There are barely any actual backgrounds anymore.
In the sterile and brightly lit empty hallways and classrooms. He includes backgrounds to set the scene and then switches to cheaper tactics, but arguably not that different than what he did in older school pages, where back then he just used out of focus blobs vaguely looking like students, desks, and lockers. He swapped that tactic for using more patterns and shit.

Nitpicking.

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>>91356798
>The new season of that show you loved isn't shit, it's just in your head.
You can dismiss everything as being the product of some weird psychological complex that everyone but you has. But that's honestly kind of dumb and doesn't actually accomplish anything.

If you are going to chalk me up as having some psychological complex, at least get it right and realize that I think the universe is a cold dark place and that i want to die

>>91356928
This. By far one of the best pages ever

>>91357041
zack apologism rears his ugly head
>if i underplay everything and call it nitpicking, that means its all extremely minor things and the product as a whole is actually good!
protip: the product as a whole is not good

>>91356787
The nonsense is seeing sjws and tumblrs in the woodwork and hiding under your bed.

I'm not having any of that paranoid shit. It's a non-issue as far as this artist and his comic are concerned and it's only brought up by autistic fucks who watch people rant about sjws on youtube while jacking off.

>but daily reminder that adversity inspires greatness

This is not adversity. This is just childish bitching. And no, it actually has the opposite effect on artists than you're suggesting.

>>91357152
>the comic that actively hamfists non-binary children into the story and the comic who's author constantly talks on twitter about the new queer characters he's going to add
>this is just sjw's in the woodwork they aren't actually there, you can't actually see them even though the comic author actively tweets sjw crap
I realize that you are an sjw yourself and exaggerate everything in your favor, but its getting old and egregiously blatant

>>91356894
The route he's going in that is the opposite of lazy. cleaner thinner linework takes more time than thick sloppy and sketchy looking linework. There is a time and place for both, but seeing the lines thin isn't a sign of laziness, it's just a natural evolution for a cartoonist.

The two routes here are to either tend towards blockier shapes and lost flexibility, or turn towards more line variation.

And I can be really optimistic if the thread is overly pessimistic.

>>91357226
>The route he's going in that is the opposite of lazy.
t. non-artist

>>91357041
>Nitpicking
>Nitpicking
>Nitpicking
>Nitpicking
Do you only have that word at the mouth? Cause I can almost meet you halfway there, but every time you come back to muh nitpicking like a stupid fucking retard. You're better than that anon, come on.

>In the sterile and brightly lit empty hallways and classrooms. He includes backgrounds to set the scene and then switches to cheaper tactics
Well, if that ain't a drop in quality I don't know what would qualify as one.
>but arguably not that different than what he did in older school pages
He did it already, not to this extent. Zack used to try way more with his comic before he took the lazy route.
>where back then he just used out of focus blobs vaguely looking like students, desks, and lockers
At least we had something back then.
>He swapped that tactic for using more patterns and shit
So instead of putting more efforts, he went easy on it and replaced everything he could. Cleaner, yes. Blander and lazier, also yes.

There, I nitpicked your post. If cleaner means erasing every visual thing that participated in making your comic great, I guess I have loads of XKCD to catch upon.

There are narrative and artistic problems with the comic, some have existed for a couple chapters and some have reared their heads during this 2-year-long fifth chapter. Zack would need to show initiative in fixing these problems and steering his webcomic airplane out of the nosedive it's currently engaged in, but the comments and feedback he willingly surrounds himself in are essentially devoid of constructive value. Between the threads on 4chan which swing from critique to boogeyman accusations, and the threads on Twitter that are essentially cliques of yes-men, there really isn't a lot of solid websites for webcomic discussion and criticism anymore. Sites and accounts that attempt to hold writers accountable either fall off the planet (John Solomon, Webcomic Overlook), sugarcoat their feedback in an attempt to remain non-committal and avoid offending Big Names in the market (The Webcomics Review), or just awkwardly transition into /pol/ 2.0 with the occasional spot-on post (Shitty Webcomics).

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>>91356995
>The linework looks like something an amateur would shit out on Paint Tool SAI.
compared with the older linework that looks like more of an amateur using pencil and a scanner with photoshop.

>I don't see why it's hard to understand that, if you enjoyed a comic for certain aspects, then you'd be displeased that each of those aspects took a turn in a direction you didn't like.
"those aspects" had jack diddly to do with the comic. You're reading too much into nothing.

Speaking of reading too much into nothing, let's talk about this:

>It's just telling that you have that on your hard drive, bruh

I googled it. I don't have much on my harddrive these days after losing my old PC, but I got really good at finding images when I needed them and I don't feel like building up another mess of folders I never get around to organizing when googling or downloading things saved on my imgur account take less time than navigating the labyrinth I end up building for myself.

Now. The kind of ridiculous paranoid mentality you have to have to think the picture is "telling" is exactly what I was talking about.

You're a fucking sperge about this shit.

What was so important about finding the bus jumper again?

>>91357080
I can dismiss things for being petty and unimportant nitpicks when they are petty and unimportant nitpicks. Especially if half of them are in your heads and the other half are people who don't know as much about art as they try to convince themselves that they do.

>>91357529
It's supposed to introduce the student council and show that some people at the school care about order and reinforce the grip of the vice-principal on the school administration. That or give him a medal for accomplishing such a feat.

>>91357566
>who don't know as much about art as they try to convince themselves that they do.
because you do?

>>91357494
What would you even google to find that shit, trog? Man you're retarded and impossible to communicate with. Just kill yourself, I'm done entertaining this shit you broken record.

>>91340310
>I am here...

oh boy I can't wait for the next update that'll subvert my expectations of what he'll say

ZACK YOUR PAGES ARE WAY TOO SHORT GET ON WITH THE FUCKING STORY

>>91357145
>zack apologism
When you start using terms like that then you've already passed the point where your complaints are valid and you're well into a circlejerk of bitchiness where everything is always awful forever.

It's the opposite of fanboyism. Where everything positive must be weeded out. Only negative. Everyone who speaks differently is a heretic!

Fuck off.

>>91357529
Gosh, anon, can't you remember one page from this chapter that came out 3 years ago?

>>91357623
no. I thought this page and the several past pages were a decent upturn recently, minus the non-binary page.
Did I call that apologism? no, I call you a zack apologist for saying zack can do no wrong beyond these "nitpicks" ha ha

if you want to join zack's hugbox, just send him a tweetie or a sext

>>91357214
It was really hamfisted. Almost as if it was meant to be a kind of joke in a comic where nothing is ever taken seriously.

No wait, it must be a super serious social commentary because this is a super serious comic. That makes him an SJW shill and therefore the enemy of man. Burn the witch.

>you must be an sjw!
There it is.

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>>91357706
>he thinks zack only puts queer characters into his comic as jokes
What? ha ha this guy

>>91357399
>Do you only have that word at the mouth? Cause I can almost meet you halfway there, but every time you come back to muh nitpicking like a stupid fucking retard. You're better than that anon, come on.

I have made it very clear that the nitpicks I made are just as nitpicky as the complaints I'm using them against. I am meeting nitpick with nitpick to illustrate how fucking unimportant and minor the complaints in question actually are.

As I said, none of my complaints against the older pages are important to me. I am fine with them. They are barely complaints. They're the kinds of things you can only find when you're looking for something to pick at, which is why I'm comparing them to the complaints about the newer pages.

Got it?

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>>91357792
>I think the problems are minor, therefore everyone must subscribe to my mindset
Be more open-minded, anon. People have different opinions and that's ok.

>>91357604
It's easy to find things on the internet if you know what it is you're looking for.

It's not even a thing, I only brought it all up because that anon was trying to sherlock holmes my secret agenda out of the use of a meme image I only posted to mock someone.

>>91357884
Not a secret agenda. Just that I know plebcomics is shit. Your posts are extremely shit. So, I made the connection and decided none of your statements should be trusted as they're from someone with shit taste.

>>91357694
I never said he can do no wrong, the only wrongs I've called out are anons here bitching like this comic killed their dog and shat in their cheerios.

I've even bitched about older pages to contrast the petty bitching about the newer pages.

But if you think a positive input is "apologism" for breaking up the bitchy bandwagon, then you can go fuck yourself. If positivity is so hard for everyone here I'll shoulder the burden and not be mad all the time like the rest of you.

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>>91357972
> not be mad all the time like the rest of you.
Oh... you're not mad? If you say so

>>91357759
Because that whole bit about a kid having a life changing experience at a shitty indie concert and getting a t-shirt is a totally serious and not on the nose thing at all.

>>91356701
woah, it's only been 4 years since this page? I thought it was longer.

>>91357839
The problems are minor. It's not a matter of mindset. They are minor problems.

I can and have illustrated this by making minor complaints about older pages, which people then get upset about because they think I actually care about those details which seems ridiculous because they're just minor petty things right?

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>>91358005
How can you miss the point this badly

zack *clap* *clap* *clap*
is an *clap* *clap* *clap*
SJW *clap* *clap* *clap*

>>91358055
How is the way the comic is fucking drawn a minor thing? Drawing is half of what makes a comic.

>>91357965
I posted a pleb comics thing from the gamergate drama because the impression I got was of a gamergate leftover always paranoid about the sjw agenda, and I thought that was fucking retarded.

I thought it was ironic, but it could have been a stretch.

Backpeddle if you want, you were still reading too much into the shit.

>>91358000
Not at the comic. And no one here was mad at each other because they were all so happily jerking each other off.

So fuck yall.

>>91358113
Dude. I don't care about the fucking gamergate whatever. Why do you even remember that. Like I said, all I know is that plebcomics is a terrible artist and the fact that you were defending terrible art choices while posting a terrible artist is telling about what your standards are, and what you find acceptable from an artist.

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>>91358055
>The problems are minor. It's not a matter of mindset. They are minor problems.
You can repeat it but that doesn't change the fact that you sperg out itt whenever someone doesn't think its minor.
Don't rage when people don't share your feelings, be happy that we have such a diverse opinion on this board, because it is this diversity that truly makes our world so beautiful, unique, and wonderful.

>>91340310

So I've seen this discussed here quite a bit and I'd like to know a couple things;

1) Is this just a straight up comedy or is there more to it?

2) A little while ago I saw people were talking about how the "gay reveal" or something rather was done wrong, what is this in reference to?

Should I read this?

>>91358085
"the way it is drawn" is alright.

The things everyone brings up for why it is not alright are overblown and minor, or completely fabricated, and all subject to change by the time the next chapter rolls around.

Most of it is just the usual progression you see cartoonists take when they develop their style and skill with something like a webcomic. Most extreme issues they have are just phases they bounce out if soon enough.

Colors too bright to colors too dull to colors more balanced and varied. Lines to thick to lines to thin to lines more varied. Backgrounds too cluttered to backgrounds too empty... you get the picture.

>>91358151
It was telling of nothing. You just read too much into shit. I had a specific reason for digging out that picture and posting it. I don't care that you don't care for that reason. Just like I don't care about pleb comics.

And I responded to what you said about the "art choices" and think you're all that's really terrible in this conversation.

>>91358272
Thanks for your infinite wisdom in all cartooning ever. You are truly a god and we should all spread out assholes for you am I right

>>91358206
1.) It's more of an action-comedy and has always been pretty plot based

2.) A whole page was dedicated to explaining how a minor character was non binary in a ham fisted fashion
>http://www.paranatural.net/comic/chapter-5-page-187

A few years ago I would have wholehearted recommended this but at this point the negatives of the comic far outweigh any positives. Chapters 1-4 are hilarious and excellent, so read those if you like but avoid chapter 5.

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>>91358146
Oh dear, I'm really feeling the positivity you are bringing to this board, I feel... enlightened.

>>91358194
>diverse opinions
If the opinions were diverse and not 90% "everything new is bad and only getting worse" for every thread for months on end, then I wouldn't be doing this.

Why the fuck else would I be here.

>>91358368
At least I can explain myself and I don't just say "it's bad because I say it's bad". And then get all snarky when called out.

>>91358536
There's literally no way to objectively tell you why it's bad. Of course it's my opinion. Do I need to preface everything with "IN MY OPINION..." like a fucking middle school essay? Eat a dick.

>>91358413
Be more subtle with the bait next time.

>>91358507
>everything new is bad
You keep saying that but
>>91340832
>>91341233
>>91341067
>>91341459
>>91343011
>>91345218
>>91345422
These posts all had something positive to say about the new page. You just think all the new pnat threads are bad and are only getting worse for every thread for months on end.

>>91358568
Well you have a shitty opinion, and I explained objectively earlier why it was a pretty shallow opinion overall.

But yeah I guess the art isn't that bad, people just have different tastes or something, right? Guess there is nothing wrong with the comic after all and people here just get caught up in the circlejerk of complaining about things.

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>>91358586
No, its actually hilarious that you think you're bringing "positive opinions" and "breaking up the bitchy bandwagon" to this thread by engaging in a flame war

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What other reason is there to keep following this aside from shotas?

>>91358645
I don't. I'm just bitching at the overly negative ones until the people stupid enough to respond get tired and leave. Saying I'm being positive is ridiculous and brings out the fact that the person I'm responding too is just admitting to being overly negative.

But by all means, jerk yourself off until you feel better. It will make you less whiny.

>>91358594
Drowned in a sea of people like >>91358716 who are just trying to make memes about the usual bitching about the art and pacing.

And most of the positive reactions to this page are a result of the implied bit of action and tension in the page, which means a decent establishing shot and more varied angles.Things people usually point out are missing in newer pages, which they can prove by picking out the more interesting pages from earlier on that stand out.

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>>91358716
>tfw to smart to actually bother reading the comic and only come into these threads to make posts about parantural's pacing

>>91358743
nice damage control. ahem... as you put it,
>If positivity is so hard for everyone here I'll shoulder the burden and not be mad all the time like the rest of you.
really shouldering that burden, eh?

>>91358815
stop nitpicking pnat threads. posts like those aren't that bad anon. you just want to be angry at pnat threads

>>91358938
>stop nitpicking pnat threads. posts like those aren't that bad anon. you just want to be angry at pnat threads
Excuses, bargaining, and backpeddling.

>nice damage control. ahem... as you put it,
Fighting damage control with damage control. No different than what you're doing.

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>>91359054
>nitpicks more and nitpicks with pride
Wew. You're a fighter, aren't ya

>>91359088
Your choice of memes are just a shield, you're on the defensive. That makes it fun.

remember when you guys were excited for this corny mess all those years ago?

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>>91359164
>I'm on the defensive
how delusional can you get?

>>91359189
And yet.

>>91359170
New things are always terrible and not as good as older things anon.

That new cartoon you really like? The next season will be shit, because reasons. And never as good as the first season.

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>>91359223
>makes incoherent post
>hm that'll show him

>>91359244
Star Vs season 2 was a big improvement from season 1 though.

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>>91340310
>pacing
>pacing
>pacing
Y'know there is quite a few problems with this webcomic but the fact that you guys keep falling back on the pacing really seems like bandwagoners to be honest.

>>91359254
And yet, you continue with the classic "I'm tired of this argument but too much of an idiot to just close the tab and leave" style of posting.

What's next in the folder?

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>>91359344
i mean, i still honestly enjoy the comic i didn't even mind the nonbinary bit, but even i can admit the pacing is bothering me a bit.
it seems like it might get back into gear soon, but it also seemed that way for like twenty pages.
hopefully he'll get his shit together soon, but until then, enh. it's not like it's killing all my interest in the comic, but it's still noticeable.

>>91359306
Yeah but season 3 will be shit! Shit!

Seriously though, the usual pattern is there will be some episode, probably filler, that seems to stand out as mediocre or bad and will become the catalyst for people here to decide everything in that season onwards is the worst.

So keep an eye out for that. Then take a shot for me when it happens.

>>91359414
That's webcomics for you. A slow part of a story seems to drag to eternity but a fast part can't update fast enough to keep up. When you find either of these happening that's when you have to take breaks and only check back on it every 5 updates.

A little action sequence and a revelation or something and people will forget all the issues they had with the comic until it hits another slow point.

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>>91359379
what? you do realize that's what you're doing? hypocrisy

Yes, that's what I'm doing too, but uh, i'm not harping on you for that? I'm harping on you for hating the toxicity of the threads, but do nothing but bring even more toxicity and hatred in. Even more hypocrisy.

>>91359422
>gets proven wrong
>doubles down on argument
lol. cancerous.

>>91359487
yeah, go figure.
i still just really wished the hidden school bar fiasco actually amounted to... much. those kinds of settings are my favorite when it comes to plot points and shit, and to see it not amount to anything notable kinda bothered me.

but hey, i trust zack to have a good idea in this somewhere, so hopefully that action sequence/revelation/twist comes soon. hopefully this student council thing has a point to it.

>>91359518
I'm disappointed by your folder. I expected frogs next. Or maybe a MAGA meme.

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>>91359414
In my opinion Zack's problem isn't a pacing issues but the fact that he has no idea where he wants to take this story, all this wacky pages wouldn't feel like that much of a waste if this was a more "monster of the week" type deal, but Zack decided that he wanted to sprinkle his story with a bunch of "mystery" that don't lend itself well to his current format or style of writing.

He's not a subtle writer, he needs to throw it in your face that stuff will eventually happen instead of hinting at it and building up in small pieces for an eventually nice payoff, and as such people get impatient.

>>91359562
It's likely a setup for something later. Like most of the classes in the beginning of the comic introducing characters and their connections to each other.

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>>91359615
who the fuck cares about what I have in my folder? for giving all that shit to that other anon for dissing your plebcomics image or whatever, you sure are being hypocritical again. just realize you are as bad as the cancer you hate itt

>>91359636
when you phrase it that way, i can kinda see where you're coming from. it seems like he had grand ideas for the story, or threads to follow at least.

>>91359655
hope so. i just wonder where it's gonna end up going.

>>91359636
> he needs to throw it in your face that stuff will eventually happen instead of hinting at it and building up in small pieces for an eventually nice payoff, and as such people get impatient.

That is literally what people praised this comic for earlier on. There's an ok balance of mysterious stuff with payoff and stuff that might pay off later or be part of a bigger than.

I think the comic just hit a slow point and people are looking too far into everything.

>>91359668
Gotcha.

>>91359732
>That is literally what people praised this comic for earlier on.
suree
>inb4 digs up the single post in the archive to prove a point

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>>91359770
>gotcha
>doesn't actually have me or btfo'd me in the slightest
Why are you like this? Just, gay urself my dude

>>91359780
It is. People spent a lot of time trying to figure out where different threads were going, what some background thing meant, and figuring out that bit of made up language the doorman said.

Why was that teacher in the river? what was that tentacle thing in a junkyard that max saw? Why did the spirit take over Max?

We got payoff to at least one of those soon enough and half payoff to the others with a little leftover for later.

If you are not into this kind of thing then this is probably not a comic for you. It has been part of the appeal since it first popped up here.

>>91359732
>That is literally what people praised this comic for earlier on
They were not, they were excited for the mysteries and the speculation but eventually it hit the same problem that shows like "LOST" did, it gave too many question in such a short amount of time and not enough answers. When you start generating mysteries for the sake of generating interest instead of becasue the plot demanded them it starts to feel weighed down by them and when he has answered literally none of those mysteries in no way or the other, , not even by hinting at an answer to the questions, it starts to get frustrating.

>>91359807
Because you're easy and refuse to catch on.

>>91359918
t. projecting

>>91359909
It gave enough answers. The only problem is that it's a webcomic so even a close payoff is months away if you're reading by the update. It's not comparable to LOST at all.

>>91359928
Could be.

>>91359887
>what was that tentacle thing in a junkyard that max saw? Why did the spirit take over Max?
Can you please enlighten me with the answers to this questions?

While you're at it could you please enlighten me with the answers to questions like, What is the deal with Spenders powers? What was Forge's ultimate purpose in the town? who where the masters of the dogs? why is Isabella's grandad taking care of Ed? who is Hijack? what is his endgame? and many more questions in this wonderful comic that apparently has no issues with his mysteries.


>The only problem is that it's a webcomic so even a close payoff is months away if you're reading by the update
No the problem is that there's not even a hint of a payoff because it's strayed away too much from any of the plot threads that generated the questions. That's Zack's problem, he focuses in the main plot thread without bothering to revisit the past ones. It is REALLY hard for the audience to be invested on future payoff when not even the characters seem interested on what's going on around them.

>>91360130
>Can you please enlighten me with the answers to this questions?
that was the half answer I mentioned. We know now that it was just like with other spirits, and it's no different than the subway that the classroom turned into for flipflop. We also know it was the spirit in the bat we were seeing. We could only guess at that and had no clue to the first part of that when we first saw his the spirit.

We're not as in the dark about that but we still don't know what the deal is with his spirit beyond a few more hints, but we still know way more than we used to. Every now and then another bit of exposition or something new makes the picture more clear, but since it's obvious this is a more main part of the whole story then it won't be all at once or soon.

Most of your questions are from the same chapter, almost as if you started reading at that chapter but are impatient about the payoff since, and you didn't notice the payoff for earlier stuff because you got it much more quickly in your initial readthrough. If I'm wrong then it just means you have a poor memory.

We will likely have most of those mostly answered by the end of the next chapter. Given the speed that other bits of payoff had in this comic.

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>>91360336
>We know now that it was just like with other spirits, and it's no different than the subway that the classroom turned into for flipflop.
There was never much doubt about what the thing was becasue there was no other way it was gonna be anything other than Max's spirit, especially when it showed the junkyard because people made the connection between it and Max's metallic powers.


>Most of your questions are from the same chapter, almost as if you started reading at that chapter but are impatient about the payoff since
I've been reading this since before Paranatural got popular on /co/ way back on chapter 1, most of the impatience around these parts is the fact that both the ghost train arc was three times the size than previous chapters.


>>We will likely have most of those mostly answered by the end of the next chapter
We could've had hints or answers to those by now if it weren't for the fact that Zack took a 100-page detour to a plotline that was completely unrelated to anything, we're 89 pages into this chapter with only 20 pages to go and we've heard nothing of the previous plot threads in-universe.

>>91360628
>We could've had hints or answers to those by now
we have had a few hints or other things that are obviously building towards the answers.

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>>91360706
Please tell me, maybe I'm not looking hard enough becasue so far we've spent roughly 80 pages on hitball, that's 80 pages out of 112, the most we've gotten is forge peeking his ugly rear at one point and Dimitri showing his powers. Aside from that this character has been nothing more than character interactions for the sake of it and Max's blackmail subplot that frankly could've waited some time to get addressed considering it's one of the less interesting plot threads going on right now.

>>91358405

Thanks man!

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This comic was never really very good to begin with, it was always some sophomoric earthbound/bleach crossover peddled at children.

>>91360871
You don't remember the hints and stuff easy because they just become part of 'what you know' and when rereading they don't pop out because you already know it, but it's all in the character and world building stuff.

>>91359344
The pacing would be bad, even if they all came out at once.

It isn't even about the time between updates, it's the fact that the Narrative is jumping all over the place, every two pages

>>91361911
might as well flip open some Ayn Rand and drink some wine by the hearth

It's much better binging the damn thing than reading about Zack's wrist falling off every other week.

>>91343829
Something that goes from mediocre to bad, or that was just plain bad from the outset, naturally won't get as much flak as something that started as good and then went to shit.

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>>91362112
Who would've known that the real plot was inside me all along, I feel like a world just opened before me. Let's be real tho, the reason why neither you or me can remember any of it, is becasue it's not fucking there.

>>91361911
>Sophomoric
How's the echo in your asshole dude, considering your head is right up there

>>91341067
It's because it has a background. An actual, honest to god background with quirky designs. A background that isn't just a pastel coloured void with a few lines that give the illusion of depth.

>>91361911
>Sophomoric
>Pretentious or juvenile

Care to explain how Paranatural is either or

>>91358005
What about the gay brown woman who's part reptile and wears a hijab? Or the brown woman who's fat and blind and possibly also gay? Zack's passing out minority characters like cheap cigars.
Which could be taken as subtle humor about the concept of token minority characters, if it wasn't for those tweets where he talks about how he wants 4chan to hate his comic.

The reason all the social justice stuff is so stilted and ill-fitting to the rest of his comic world is that although he'd like to be a social justice warrior, he's just not very good at it. He doesn't understand any of the concepts he's pandering. He's quoting them from sources he read.