Should we have seen it coming?

>>91321917
This is the sad truth of having stories always continue, those happy endings don't last. When you go past the big moment, they become less big.

Every character in Star Wars will die and be replaced with a new cast member. Any post credits scene for Logan would completely undo the final moment of the film.

>>91321917
2011 was the year Perlmutter gutted the editorial, so those books were in a lot of ways the last stand of a lot of editors at the time.

>>91322042
That makes way too much sense. I think it was also when they got their all-new, all-different diversity (push) department, right?

>>91322042
>2011 was the year Perlmutter gutted the editorial,
You know, really thinking about this...yeah, that is the exact moment Marvel went to shit cause Avengers vs. X-Men followed in 2012.

>>91322099
Honestly, I think the gutted editorial is far more to blame for the state of Marvel than the diversity push. The diversity push resulting in a lot of shit books is the direct result of a lack of good editors and the ones left being overwhelmed. That and there are no architects with a vision building the MU.

>>91322111
>AvX
That's just one factor, really. It was right before they gave X-Men to bendis and published other brilliant trainwrecks like Female!Ghost Rider.

>>91322146
>That and there are no architects with a vision building the MU.
I thought that would be Bendis at this point.

I'm not sure if a lack of editors in general is way worse than having crap editors like say, Quesada, for instance.

>>91322173
I think the X-Men faced the worst of it though.

The X-Men had a cool vibe to it, and questionable heroes. They felt like they were building up after all the tragedies of M-Day and a lot of death. But with editorial gone, it became an instant gratification of "Wolverine is awesome, Cyclops is an asshole! Let's make Cyclops the villains for the Avengers!"

The Avengers didn't deserve that win in AvX because the X-Men went through way, way too much shit. From School bus explosions to kids getting shot though the head, the X-Men suffered. The Avengers just stuffed their faces and went "Wait, who died?" It really was the moment that we saw the biases of the writers take over and removed all subtext. "My favorites are right, these characters are wrong, and forget the other characters"

Which lead us to this year. I distinctly remember that Marvel Now had "Less editorial interference so that writers could tell their own stories" which was fun at first, but a few years of it, and it's clear that they have no idea where to go anymore, especially when all the big names left for Image.

>>91322228
>M-Day
Was already the beginning of the evil that is Bendis.

>>91322173
I liked chick ghost Rider in circle of four, was her book bad or something?

>>91322202
>I thought that would be Bendis at this point.
Bendis has no idea what he's doing anymore and Civil War II shows it. Hell, Bendis feels like that writer who gets bored with the characters he gets to write and just moves onto something else. It's why his Miles Morales run is more obsessed with guest stars than actually developing Miles' character.

>>91322241
Yes, it was bad.

>>91322235
Naw, that would be Disassembled.
>>91322241
Yeah, I'm confused, I thought Alejandra had fans.

>>91322241
I don't recall circle of four, could even be another chick ghost rider?

Her book started badly (she was part of an order training to become Ghost Riders... wut) and sorta went nowhere for a while, until she goes crazy at the end and Johnny gets the Rider power back to fight her or something.

Also, I'm almost sure Adam or some other biblical guy was there for some reason. Part of the point is, that was when the diversity push started out of nowhere. Suddenly Bullseye was dead and replaced with Lady Bullseye (which was pretty bland), Mr. Sinister was replaced by Lady Sinister, and T'Challa was replaced as Black Panther by his sister (the only memorable part of the book was really the subplot about T'Challa getting back into shape to get revenge against Doom).

>>91322235
Try a few years earlier, with Avengers Disassembled. Unless you mean on X-Men.

>>91322235
>>91322331
>>Bendis makes major changes for the X-Men
>>Doesn't actually write any of the fallout.
>>Instead uses it as an opportunity to kill Alpha Flight

The worst thing about Bendis' pettiness is that nobody calls him out on it.

>>91322202
>>91322256

The problem with Bendis (well, A problem with Bendis) is that he's not a big-picture guy. People buy him for his dialog and character work, not his plotting or creative vision; even within his own series' he can rarely move the plot from point A to point B without a lot of hand-waving. Barring really tightly focused stuff like Alias his work almost never has any sort of thesis or creative throughline to it. Chartering a vision for the line as a whole is just about the job he is worst-suited for.

>>91322451
>People buy him for his dialog and character work
Which I can't tell if is hilarious, sad or both.

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>>91322451
To be honest, Bendis is no a creative person. He starts out his Avengers with "These characters are lame, so I'll kill them off" which includes Hawkeye, Vision, Ant-Man, etc. and then uses Spider-Man, Wolverine (for popularity) and Luke Cage and Spider-Woman (cause he grew up with them in the 70's). Everything from Bendis' work feels like it's just been copied from TV and applied to his book. Look at how his Fear Itself tie ins are one giant Office Joke. CWII was minority report. Even Miles Morales was created cause of that Donald Glover thing. The fact that all his books come down to punching the villain til they go down shows he doesn't have any greater bone of storytelling.

Look at how Echo was just dropped from the plot when he got Mockingbird. Or how he just rearranged which Illuminati had which gems. Hell, look at the massive irony that a super liberal writer created one of the biggest Islamic bashing books of Secret Invasion! An event where super religious zealots are on among us and we should indiscriminately kill them all, even if they turn out to be innocent, which doesn't come back to bite them on their asses.

And speaking of heroes committing atrocious actions and never facing consequences, what the fuck was with Eva Bell erasing someone from existence and then calling Cyclops out for trying to help the guy?! People thought that was a "Girl power" moment online! And we haven't seen Eva ever since then!

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT, DO I HATE BENDIS

>>91322269
>Disassembled
was was a good arc with its tie-ins also. Remember this was before yearly events when they mattered. It was New Avengers when shit hit the fan and lead to crossover after crossover.
>Those rogue shield agents in the savage lands.....yeah they were skrulls!!!

>>91322529
>Echo was just dropped from the plot
She was last seen in Moon Knight way back when right? Those were some crazy times for Marc, having Wolverine/Spider-man/Capt. America personalities.

>>91322331
I meant the X-men.

>>91322529
Look. Bendis is a long-term disease that probably won't kill you. Like diabetes. He even looks like a human version of diabetes.
But Marvel is being eten by something much more vicious right now. Testicular cancer that is America, Champions and whateverthefuck was that attempt at Fantastic Four that mascaraded as Ghost Rider.
I'll take mediocrity over that willful awfullnes any day.
At least Benis can write two different characters. His JJ's run isn't all that bad.
America though is a turbo cancer on steroids. And if god forbid they hire more people like that... dark times are ahead, my friend.

>>91321917
They only had ends because they were getting ready to relaunch them at #1's again, or beginning new stories.

It happens all the time with books.

>>91322702
The first page of Disassemble has the dialgoue
>>Hey you know that green chick?
>>Who?
>>Viper
>>Viper?
>>Yeah
>>What about her?
>>Did you ever bang her?
>>What?

I'm not kidding.

>>91322776
Bendis brought her back and killed her just so fans would stop complaining.

>>91322834
America is a cancerous book but it's contained in its own corner. Bendis has been actively damaging franchises and characters in much much worse ways.

>>91322834
>And if god forbid they hire more people like that... dark times are ahead, my friend.
Marvel is going to collapse so much faster. Especially when they all think Peggy Cater is an amazing character from the MCU.

>>91322839
>It happens all the time with books.
Not so much back then, dude.

>>91322834
>His JJ's run isn't all that bad.
>His work about his own OC isn't ALL THAT BAD
I mean, at worst he could be kept in some containment book/continuity. Like a crib or a shortbus, if you will, with his own toys.

>>91322913
>Like a crib or a shortbus
Just put him on Ultimate universe, let him do whatever the fuck he wants.

>>91322930
Basically, yes.

>>91322235
I liked the m day idea but the follow through was shit. Ideally they could have spent a year in their mirror universe and then followed up with a good story line after.

>>91322042
>2011 was the year Perlmutter gutted the editorial

I don't know the story behind this.

EXPLAIN

>>91322019
Well the concept of "happy endings" is a bit flawed in today's society. People assume happy ending means everything after is happy. In fact when we get the inevitable sequels that attempt to deconstruct the idea of the "happy ending" by showing what comes after (with a family or further problems) we find that while stressful even then they eventually find a "happy ending."

But life does not have a happy ending. You die and it's over. Religious depictions of a happy after life are a way of coping with this lack of a happy ending. Happy endings are really just the snap shot, the kodak moment, of a happy memory. You can have many happy endings in your life (heyyyoooo) but the ending will always just be death.

Which only edgy morbid faggots would say is happy. Or the severely depressed.

So the only way they can ever end a characters story is to acknowledge that fact or to kill a character off is in a glorious way for some kind of cathartic, theatrically pleasing way. So they'll "live on" as if that's a happy ending.

>>91321917
Axel Alonso became EiC in 2011
That answers your question

>>91321917
What runs were good from that era?

>>91325125
Not strictly 2010-2011, but:

Annihilation - Annihilation Conquest - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 1./Vol.2 - War of Kings - Realm of Kings - Thanos Imperative

That whole cosmic saga was fucking incredible.

>>91322241
She was a typical spicy Latina with a grating personality
I liked her too

>>91325125
Thunderbolts by Jeff Parker
Invincible Iron Man by Fraction
Journey into Mistery by Gillen
Uncanny X-Men by Gillen
Uncanny X-Force by Remender
Hickman just started Ultimates
Slott's Amazing was still good
Venom by Remender
Ellis' short Secret Avengers run
Brubaker's Captain America was winding down
Parker's Red Hulk
Waid's Daredevil just started
Rucka's Punisher
Hickman's FF was still going strong
Aaron's Wolverine
And the cosmic titles like >>91325380
wrote

It was a fucking golden age. I almost can't believe there was a time when I was enthusiastically looking forward to 15-20 Marvel comics per month.

>>91321917
Pmub

>>91323881
From 2011

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/20the-spinning-pennies-of-marvel’s-isaac-perlmutter/

>Recently Jim Sokolowski Marvel’s COO was let go, but I understand there’s no move to replace him, just share his duties amongst other staff. Directors of Newsstand, Subscriptions and Editorial Operations, Frank Rosner, Jenna Pagliuca and Justin Gabrie respectively were also let go by Marvel a couple of months ago, all involved with non-direct market specialities.

>Today I learned that Marvel editor Alejandro Arbona had been let go at Marvel, and CBR also mentioned editor Jody LeHeup had gone, and up to thirteen others.

>Recently Heidi MacDonald of Comics Beat reported that Isaac Perlmutter was restricting inventory in bookstores to save money spend on holding and warehousing stock. One source told me that if an employee was found to be keeping five trade paperbacks of one series in Marvel’s warehouses, they would be dismissed, and Heidi reports a Marvel exec making a similar claim, albeit jokingly. That may be an exaggeration, but that attitude explains the inability for certain series to keep all their collections available for order, as well as the recent attempts to liquidate large cases of trade paperbacks for 90% off cover price through Diamond.

>Earlier this year, Bleeding Cool reported on Marvel’s plan to massively increase their newstand and bookstore operation in America with collections of comics in the British and European newstand model, three or four issues bound together and sold for a relatively low price. This seems to have been cut off at the knees, and people involved with the project dismissed.

>>91326953
>Heidi also echoes growing complaints that I’ve been receiving, that Marvel general freelancer rates were cut earlier this year, though she talks about exceptions for individual agreements such as exclusive deals. At a time when Marvel have justified the 20 page $3.99 comic book as because of increasing creative costs, it seems a number of them have been summarily cut.

>It’s not quite as general as Heidi implies though. It started with letterers, then colourists, then inkers – Marvel have asked creators to establish a lower rate they’ve dubbed “B-rate” along with their current rate. If the book a creator is on is currently selling below a certain threshold, the B-rate is used instead of the “A-rate.” They are of course told first and can chose to leave the book or stay depending on their circumstances. But this has effectively cut certain freelancers overall pay, for the same amount of work delivered. It has yet to touch pencillers or writers, however.

>It’s not just the newsstand and bookstore staff or less glamorous freelancers that are worried. Marvel hasn’t replaced any recent editorial departures in the last year, including Nate Cosby, Michael Horwitz and Charlie Beckerman. Axel’s promotion to Editor-In-Chief also means the loss of a line editor who was never replaced. Ralph Macchio’s retirement is regarded as anything but.

>>91326971
>I am told by Marvel sources that the publisher’s policy is to spread the work amongst the remaining staff. Marvel is still publishing a hundred comic books a month, with many collections and special projects, more than a year ago, when they were talking about publishing less – but now doing it with less staff.

>After the June firings, work was either outsourced or spread to the managers below – who get paid less for the job. With fifteen fewer staff, things have to be close to breaking point.

>When Isaac Perlmutter was majority owner of Marvel Comics, he always had the reputation of watching the pennies, the staples, and the amount of coffee pots in the building. He now runs Marvel Publishing but doesn;t own it, a billion dollars the richer, and his increase in this cost-cutting activity has been attributed to making sure Disney never feels they have to get involved, as long as profits are up. And while that was true this year, Marvel Publishing didn’t make the profit margin that was forecast last year. So even more cuts must be found. Hence today’s dismissals.

>>91326988

>The one thing that doesn’t appear in the books however is Marvel Publishing’s role as a research and development body for the rest of the company. As has been demonstrated, the films aren’t just drawing on the sixties work of Stan and Jack, they quite specifically reference work of recent times by JMS, Bendis, Mark Millar and more. This seems to be discounted within Marvel however, and so the cuts continue. Some now wish for increased control by Disney, believing that they would never let a profitable R&D department such Marvel Publishing to be salami sliced in this fashion, even as it promotes brand extension and contributes to new characters and stories at a fraction of what it would cost to do so in animation or film. No other publishing division at Disney publishes anywhere near the amount of content that Marvel does or as successfully. The hope is that Disney would treat Marvel Publishing more like Pixar’s various divisions and give them room to promote the brand.

>The criticism comes down to one this, Isaac Perlmutter continues to run Marvel as if he were still its owner and in the fashion he always has, like a start-up company, with skeleton crew for maximum profit. And there’s only so many times you can cut to the bone.

>As the only conduit to Marvel, Perlmutter has cemented himself amongst the Board of Directors at Disney. While back at the company he controls but no longer owns, people afraid for their jobs are staying ungodly amounts of hours to clear their workload and, in most cases, exempt from overtime pay.

>Full-time temps are working over a year without being hired full-time and getting health benefits or adding to the “head count” which Perlmutter regularly reviews. To stay within the law, Marvel ends their temp assignment towards the end of the first year of employ and then rehires them immediately for another temp assignment.

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>>91327019
>>91326988
>>91326971
>>91326953

>>91327019
>Many at Marvel were elated after the Disney buyout but soon deflated again when nothing changed. Access to Disney’s benefits have slowly trickled in over the course of the last two years, except for Disney’s biggest conduit of information to their employees worldwide, their Intranet “The Hub.” Marvel employees have yet to have access to it. However, every Marvel employee must report every meeting, conference call, visit from or to Disney reported to Perlmutter with details on who, what, where, when, why and how… the information only flows one way.

>That Marvel Publishing continues is down to those with have a passion and loyalty for the brand they work for. But there will come a time when those that keep their jobs, just won’t have the hours to do them. And at that some point, some one really will notice…

>>91327056
Why hasn't Disney stepped in? They MUST be aware of what's going on. You don't become Disney by missing something a Vietnamese noodle soup board has picked up on.

>>91327130
they did, iirc Disney wanted dissasemble finished and all the big guns back to status quo

>>91327130
Ike has a lot of Disney shares. IIRC the only people who have more than him are/were George Lucas, Steve Jobs, and I forget who else. So he does get a say into a lot of Disney stuff.

But I think Feige taking control of the films away from Ike is one of the bigger moves.

>>91322860
The very first "characters sit around a table and have meaningless idle talk"... if only we knew.

>>91327296
Got a source on that? I'm interested, never heard of Disney interfering with Marvel comics in anyway. Gives me hope.

>>91322099
>I think it was also when they got their all-new, all-different diversity (push) department, right?

I don't think so. Miles was introduced long before the editors had gotten sacked. Kamala didn't debut until 2013 and her series didn't start until early 2014. Sam Wilson didn't become Cap and Jane didn't become Thor until 2014.

>>91322860
>Bendis brought her back and killed her just so fans would stop complaining.
Jesus christ.