Getting your dream job

>>91247570

>So, isn't it better to just stick to self-studying and not go to art school?
Depends on how far you want your skill level to go. If you just want to reach a level where you can make decent looking independent comics/short films or freelance work, then sure. However, if you want to reach the level where major film companies want to hire you on the spot, you need to learn from the best, and the best are teaching at art schools. In terms of getting a job though, it's not 100% necessary to go to art school, but it's still highly recommended.

>Any other reason I should go to art school besides learning from the best?
Yes. Networking. Major film and TV companies pay extra attention to students that attend these schools, and often have experienced artists such as Glen Keane come and give special guest lectures. However, it's still your responsibility to create those social connections between companies and people in the industry in order to get your first job. There are many SCAD students (such as me and other anons here) who haven't tried hard enough to make those connections and graduated without getting anywhere. Not pushing myself to network is one of my biggest regrets, and it's one of the biggest reasons why you shouldn't go to art school until your mentally ready and socially mature. Yes, we can blame our terrible advisers, but in the end the student is responsible for their education and career goals, not the school. When you attend art school, the door to your future is often right in front of you, so don't waste that opportunity while you're there!

>>91247586
>What if I just can't go to art school because I lack money and other circumstances?
There are many people who haven't gone to art school and still succeeded in getting in the industry. Most of these people have done more than self-studying. They have created short films and entered them at film festivals, made connections with every artist they met, and went out of state/country to go to animation film festivals and networking meetups for a weekend. They admittedly have a lot more mold to break through than art students, but it's possible.

>Is Animation Mentor a good online school?
From what I heard from my classmates, it's surprisingly good with experienced teachers, plus it's cheaper than art school (but still not insanely cheap either). From what I hear the workshops are more recommended than the full degree. However, the biggest downfall is the lack of industry connections. The teachers have company experience, but can't really help you find a job. Animation Mentor should be kinda considered an advanced form of self-studying with the addition of a mentor.

>>91247608
>CalArts seems like a joke. It looks like I can just get a loan, graduate from the school, and get guaranteed a job and pay back all of my debt without any effort. Is this true?
Let me end this rumor once and for all. No it's not as easy as it may seem. Although it's true you get way more opportunities in CalArts because most of the industry is in LA, that doesn't mean the student doesn't put effort in their portfolio and networking skills. The real reason why CalArts students have a slightly easier time getting employed is more to do with the location than the school itself. If you too moved to LA, and have the skills, you'll have a higher chance of getting hired just because the industry is thriving there. There are many CalArts students who graduated, still live in LA, but have yet to find jobs and are going to art centers to improve their portfolio (the art centers in LA are really good too). We tend to look at the simplicity of modern cartoons and blame CalArts for it, but if you actually take the time and look at the portfolios of many CalArts graduates, they actually know their stuff. The simplicity of modern cartoons is the artistic choices of the studios because it's trendy at the moment. The graduates are simply following suit because that's what the studio wants. Point is CalArts does not make an easier path for you, if anything it makes a more straight clean path for you than a shaky path, but that straight path still has obstacles that you must overcome.

>>91247632
>I'm interested in art/animation, but I'm still not sure if it's for me. How should I explore it without risking myself?
As I said before, learn how to draw and animate on your own and see how you feel. If you feel passionate enough to draw/animate everyday, then it's a good career for you. It's important to separate the difference between passion and happiness though. Passion does not mean you're happy to do what you do every single day. There will be days when you feel like crap, but you still draw anyway because it's a habit. That's what true passion is, you can't stop yourself from doing what you do everyday no matter how bad you feel. The consistency passion brings is super important in the industry, because companies need that level of consistency to create demanding projects.

>Is /ic/ a good board to go to for learning and critique? What about DevianatArt or Tumblr?
Honestly no. I know that's not a popular answer here, but internet communities of any sort aren't a healthy replacement for real life learning and networking. I know it's possible to network through just internet communities and meeting at fan conventions, but it's just not as efficient. I'm speaking from experience. At first I saw nothing wrong with such communities, but I realized that it had kept me in this anti-social bubble, and it hindered my networking skills in a way. Internet communities are fine to share the usual fun side projects and fanart, but not serious career work. Not to mention the internet is seriously addictive and distracts you from your responsibilities. Try to avoid internet communities, especially if you're just starting to learn how to draw. It's much better and socially healthier to just go to an art center and speak with real artists and teachers face to face. The sooner you can build your social and networking habits with other artists, the better and more fulfilling your future in art will be.

>>91247656
>I tried achieving my dream, but the teachers I had were arrogant pricks, I can't find a job, I'm in debt, and overall I feel some people are just lucky and I'm wasting my time. Is animation really for me? Why should I even try?
Because you only truly fail if you give up and stop trying. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to act like the typical optimist who believes anyone can achieve their dreams if they just try hard enough, that's not realistic. But that also doesn't mean I'm going to act like the typical cynic who also immaturely thinks there is no opportunity at all. All I can share is my advice on passion again. If you feel the urge to work on this career goal everyday no matter how bad you feel, like a habit, then this is the career for you. People who want to get into animation for financial success are doing it for the wrong reasons. All careers in art don't pay as well as other careers do. Even the entry level Disney animator only gets paid a couple bucks more than the minimum wage. If you're going into the field of animation, or any art career really, they say you're already a delusional optimist because it's an incredibly risky career. But we all know we do art/animation because we're passionate about it, and that drive makes us work consistently, and that consistency helps us create creative works and good income even if the pay isn't incredibly amazing.

>What's the top advice you can give me?
Practicing, researching, networking, and getting out of your comfort zone every day is the top advice I can give. Turning your passion into consistency is key.

>>91247570
Friend of mine wants to break into the professional world in animation/comics.

My friend currently works on low budget indie comics, and doesn't have the funds at all to afford an education and it would be difficult to even afford the funds to travel to a film festival without some outside support. Any suggestions?

>>91247704
He should keep practicing drawing/animation. There's a shitload of tutorials for free online. In creative fields, it's way more about what you produce than anything else, so if he wants to do animations, he needs to start doing animations right now.

>>91247766
So basically convince her to be an online animator like Zeurel, HDD, Jazzamoto, RedMinus, JanAnimations?

Visuals, or storytelling?

How do I make an epic cartoon so I can bang all the millenial girls?

>>91247570
>a post on /co/ that's actually helpful and informative

woah.

in all seriousness though, thanks for sharing this with us. It gives me more of a clear idea of what I should be doing to get into the industry.

>>91247933
>millenial girls
Storytelling. Millenial girls don't give a shit about impressive visuals.

>>91247995
Thank you.

Are web animations a good way of trying to attract attention?

this thread is too good to die

>19-20 year old this month
>been draw gagging, drawing fan art, making regular/sonic OCs since I was 10
>was always fascinated in story boarding and character creation
>not sure what to add for my portfolio or what schools to go to after I get my associates.
Help

>19-20 year old this month
>been draw gagging, drawing fan art, making regular/sonic OCs since I was 10
>about to go back to school and get my associates before even thinking about art school
>want to do storyboarding, character design and maybe make my own project
>don't know what to add to my portfolio in the mean time or how to network myself
Help
>was always fascinated in story boarding and character creation
>not sure what to add for my portfolio or what schools to go to after I get my associates.
Help

>>91249030
Fucking phone posting

Got my own webcomic chugging along, would love to get into animation and this thread is really proving to be helpful, thanks for sharing mates.

>>91247570
>top tier art school like SCAD
>SCAD doesn't even require a portfolio to get in

>>91249255
SVA fag here, can confirm this is (kinda true). I was going to apply to SVA and SCAD for animation but ultimately just applied to SVA because they actually required my portfolio to be shown and that came off as more professional to me. Also, SVA is constantly giving out great internship opportunities to NYC studios like Titmouse and every New York based ad agency you can think of.

The only downside is that a lot of people who go to SVA for animation are all trying to become the next Rebecca Sugar. After a while it's hard to tell a lot of people's styles apart and most of those people either drop out or transfer to our cartooning department (which is literally just a bunch of furfags). The only people at SVA who I've seen become/begin to become successful are people who have already worked for years to cultivate an original style while applying classic animation techniques.

TLDR: if your gonna even consider going to an art school for animation beforehand, make sure to work on cultivating a unique original style and practice animating with pencil and paper before you even touch a cintiq

>>91249618
Not the same guy but thanks for this, I fell like my style could use some work.

OP back to answer some questions here. Again, if you there's anyone with better input, feel free to share.

>>91247759
Don't exactly know your friends circumstances so YMMV, but I believe your friend just has to be a bit more patient. He just needs to find a stable paying job, save up money, and while he waits he can take the time to improve his art skills and portfolio. There's probably still a lot he can learn on his own. If he's good at drawing, perhaps he can look into online freelance art as a job too. Also, I think a trip to a film festival or convention for a weekend is still much cheaper than a full college degree, and there is a lot of value if he does happen to make a short film and enter it (he should enter short films at small local film festivals first before he tries the major ones). I honestly don't have much advice for non-college people outside of that though.

>>91247933
Depends. If you're trying to be an artist/animator first and foremost, focus on visuals. If you're more focused on creating stories whether through writing or comics/storyboards, storytelling should be your focus. Ideally you should learn both though, and you will learn both if you go to art school.

>>91248322
For the internet world, yes. But real life people, not so much unless you bring it to their attention. If your web animations are typical Tumblr fan animations, studios won't be so interested, especially the major film studios. I do know that CN have hired SU fan artists though, but those fan artists probably had to fly to California and network like most real life people do instead of sitting around waiting.

>>91248975
Just be patient. Got to art centers, learn how to draw stuff from real life, learn how to create art for real, etc. Drawing fan art since you were a kid is a good sign actually, since you seem to have passion for character creation. All you need to do is just take art more seriously. Then after that start thinking of applying to the big schools.

I got my dream job. I'm an accountant. I wish I'd dreamed bigger.

>>91249255
SCAD is no CalArts, that's for sure, but it's still a really legit school with people who have worked for Disney, Dreamworks, and Blue Sky. With the occasional guest lectures from the Disney legends such as Glen Keane. I'm surprised that such a good doesn't need a portfolio to enter. I had a lot of fun in the animation department at SCAD and learned a lot. No regrets besides not pushing myself to network more.

I went to SVA. Biggest mistake of my life. And I was the fuck up, I won't lie or sugar coat it. I shined for about 18months and almost "saw the light" but I fucking lose it at some point. At the end one dude I was cool with, saw me and went "what happened to you man?" with a concerned look on his face. I had no business being in art school, and have crushing debt to show for it. But I just want to say it was a fucking 4 year rundown cruise ship with babysitters. Don't know what it's like there these days, but I get their art catalogs. I doubt anything productive is coming out of those schools. I think only 3 kids came out successful in my class. I'm less than 2 years away from committing suicide to get out of debt. My passion for creating art has vanished. I don't even want to play the game anymore or entertain the idea of posting on social media. Even looking at these threads triggers my inner loser guilt.

I'll just parrot something I heard, cause that's all I seem to be doing lately. If you get a grant that pays most of it, or have someone to cover you for 4-6 years, go for art school. But if you're good enough to get a grant, you're probably good enough to work pro. Self-discipline is very important, if you can't sit down 6-8 hours and work on multiple things in a day, you're probably not gonna excel in school. And that is also the lesson for being an independent commercial artist. If you're not good enough don't even bother with artschool. Just post on social media and ask for heavy critiques. Sign up for some of these online drawing schools and get critiqued by the instructors. 1000x cheaper than accredited art schools.

Forgive my depressing tone. I could go off, but I do like art and artists, I'm just a scorned loser.

>>91247995
It's the complete opposite, idiot.

OP is retarded for not mentioning the biggest thing: if you're not an American citizen, don't even bother.

>>91250670
Canadian animation industry is booming right now, many studios can't find enough skilled artists to match their desired rate of production

>>91250730
>Canadian animation industry

I don't even have a witty comment to make.
Just no.

>>91247570
Thanks for the thread OP!

I had some questions, is it worth it to take continuing ed courses in animation? I figure it's a much cheaper way to get some course work in without having to go through loans or portfolio review.

And can you describe the process of creating a short film, maybe yours if you are comfortable?

>>91250597
Really sucks man. I have a couple classmates who gave up SCAD for similar reasons and are in the same place as you. Just know that you're not alone. Just take a break, stick close to your friends and family instead of anons on 4chan, and enjoy art for what it is rather than making it a statement of your self worth. You're just someone who took the wrong turn, but life isn't over for you man. I know this advice probably won't help you at all, but you still got my respect and care. Hang in there, I know it's tough.

>>91249618

Why pencil and paper though? I get trying to develop your own style and practicing drawing on paper. But what do you gain from trying to animate on paper?

>>91251503
Probably because it's cheap, it gives you time to learn and figure if this is what you really want to do, and if that all checks out then you can spend hundreds of dollars on an expensive piece of electronic equipment.

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Great thread OP. If anyone has any questions on working in the comics side of things, I'd be glad to answer some. I'm only on my second published series but I know enough to cover most bases I think

>>91251425
Thank you dude. That's mighty nice of you anon. Your advice is valuable to me, I do get stuck on negative stuff anons say so if it means anything I take your words with gratitude. And yeah I need my friends and family.

>>91250670
Out of curiosity, what country do you live in? You can still make a name for yourself in your country to beef up your resume before going aboard. You don't have to work in studios or go to art school to learn how to make great stories in comic book form.

>>91251717
>Comics

I'm currently doing the Kevin Cross hundred days thing, I feel like my workflow is not optimal. Is it something that comes with time or are their best practices to assembling a page/book?

>>91250773
Take what you can get. Most of the animation being done in Canada is service work for international clients. Not everybody is making Flash-shit for Teletoon.

>>91247902
Sure. Patreon makes it easier than ever to do that and actually make some money off of it.

>>91251857
Never heard of it, could you explain it? What is your average page turnaround (presuming you're penciling and inking)?

Having deadlines (especially tight ones) are the fast-tracked way to developing a good workflow IMO, even if you have to impose them on yourself

>>91250626
then why are SU and GF popular

Mind if I ask you a question?
I'm in college recently and I really wanted to dive in on drawing/animation and self-teaching.
Problem is time organization. I pretty much have only 6-7 hours/day that I'm "free" (as in, returning from college and prior to my working hours).
Is there any suggestion to balance between studying with self-teaching art in terms of time?

What art books do you suggest?

>>91251946
If you've got 6-7 hours that's a LOT of time to practice. If you can devote 30 minutes to an hour every day for GOOD practice, you'll progress a lot.

>>91251155
The short film I made for the graduation project I don't feel comfortable sharing unfortunately. It has my name and my colleagues names on it and I don't have their permission to share it. It was about a bird is all I can say. I didn't like how it turned out though. Camera cuts and timing were pretty off for example. But anyway, making a short film is essentially putting everything you've learned in school. You can make one yourself at home if you know all the steps from storyboarding to animatic and modeling/drawing. There's a video from Bloop Animation that talks about it pretty straightforwardly.

As for college courses, the cheapest way is to get your general eds done in community college and transfer, then focus the rest of the two years on animation.

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>>91251913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwGKQS5trQU

The video is the guy in question who started it, the short of it is work on your creator owned story for a sustained period.

I am gunning for a fully penciled/inked/colored book, 32 pages of art. I'm Just over two weeks in and have made some significant progress, but by no means am close to done.

100 days didn't seem like a lot until I started, I feel like I'm floundering and could be doing a lot better.

>>91249255
>>91249618
>>91250233
SCAD is a fucking scam anon, no one gets anywhere by handing a shitload of money for a B average and no demo reel to speak of.

>>91252445
I'm not all that keen on a degree, i'd just like the course work and meeting like minded individuals. Is the four years needed if I take the brick and mortar route?

>>91252445
OP here, I think I misread your question. When you said continuing education, did you mean taking animation classes in Community College? If so, the animation they teach you in a general school is about the same level of education you can learn for free or cheap through online tutorials.

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This thread....is so weirdly good for this board.....I am scared guys....

>>91252548
Well yeah. That's true for any art school. The degree isn't the point, it's the people that teach you and the demo reel has always been the student's responsibility, not the school's.

Love the thread you put in here OP.

This is always my favorite type of thread on /co/ because I think the Cartoon Industry is just interesting. It's interesting how many of the things you repeat like networking is completely true about the dream jobs of Mechanical Engineering.

Is it too late for me to go to art/animation school?

I turn 25 today (seriously). When is it too late? I'm glad you brought up emotional/mental maturity because I most certainly was not mature enough for something like art school prior to age 23 or so. But I'm worried it's too late now.

Please be honest.

>>91252635
So, the point of going to a big art school is for the very experienced teachers that exclusively teach there and the connections. If you don't care about that, then feel to self-study, you can still make amazing work. Just be sure to network and meet people.

>>91252967
happy birthday anon

>>91253111
nice get anon

>>91251861
Why would international clients set up shop in what is possibly the most expensive country in the world for hiring foreign labour (after all expenditures accounted for)?

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>>91253111
Thanks mate.

>>91247608
A bit on paying for school for those considering going;

Do your first two years at a community college. It's way cheaper, and if you qualify for a Pell Grant, may cover the entire cost. That said, don't expect every credit you earn to pass on to a four year(especially better ones). The advantage of this is that you'll rapidly know whether schooling is the right choice for you or not without sinking too much money into it.

Most art schools offer significant amounts of money in the form of scholarships; I've been offered in the $15,000-22,000 range. Even so, I'm probably going to end up having somewhere around $18,000~ in student loans, but compared to what you might think looking at tuition initially(which is usually somewhere around $30,000 a year), it's not all that much. It's actually less than my mother paid for her car. Some state universities are cheaper, but they also tend to offer general art degrees instead of specialized.

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Say you already have the knowhow.

How would be the best way to make a demo reel? Make animation cuts exclusive to that reel? Make a short film or two and then condense some of the best parts of your animation into that reel without much else? Should you bother putting in a bunch if hand drawn animation, or would it be wiser to put in mostly flash puppet stuff, since that's the stuff most studios do these days? Is it wise to just have multiple reels for different studios types you'd apply to? Is it essential you have a portfolio of non animated work if you have a good reel, or can you skip it?

>>91253166
What? People from America hire Canadian studios to animate for them because art productions in Canada get sick nasty tax credits. It's cheap for clients and the artists get paid decently.

I was recently placed on the waiting list for SVA for the Animation program for Fall.

Realistically, what are my chances of getting off the waiting list and getting to go off to college this fall?

>drawing cartoons as a career and not just as a hobby

o I am laffin

>>91252967
Don't worry about it. I was in an animation program with people ranging from recent HS grads to folks in the 30s.

>>91253351
SVA fag from earlier here

I'd say you have a 50/50 chance, but the better your art is, the more likely you are to get bumped up the list (at least that's what I've gathered with people in the department who were originally wait listed but then accepted). If you don't get in then keep working on your skills and reapply next year (if your truly set on SVA)

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>>91253751
I've been very depressed the last few years so I haven't worked on my art as much as I maybe should have.

I'd say it was low-average. Here's a bird I included.

>>91253816
Did you put only traditional art in your portfolio? Any figure drawings? Some examples of your cartoon style?

>>91253177
I'll try tackle this point by point, hopefully it helps a bit.

>How would be the best way to make a demo reel? Make a short film or two and then condense some of the best parts of your animation into that reel?

Only put the best of your best in your demo reel. It's better to have a reel that's under a minute with only stellar stuff than a longer reel padded out with some meh stuff in the middle. If you're going to make a short film, you may as well just include the film with your portfolio because studios are interested in seeing how well you animate from shot to shot. For the reel, sure, you can condense and just put in the best of the best, but I would keep it in order. Don't put in one shot from one film, a shot from a different film, a walk cycle, then another shot from the first film. In regards to organizing your reel, put your best, most showstopping piece of work right at the beginning. If the hiring manager doesn't like what they see in the first ten seconds, they're just going to move on to the next person. Something that I was told the other week by a hiring manager, which surprised me, is that they prefer no music running through your reel, just the soundtrack from the included shots.

If you're producing work specifically with your demo reel in mind, you should focus on character acting and performance, especially lip sync. Most shows are just two people talking, so if you can do that well you're in a good spot. If your animation generally looks well made, studios will assume that you can do walk cycles and basic shit, so there's no need to include them in your reel.

>>91253937
I don't know how to draw in a cartoon style..I only know tradition stuff for the most part..

But I did include some figure drawings, yes.

>>91253177
>>91253957
>Should you bother putting in a bunch if hand drawn animation, or would it be wiser to put in mostly flash puppet stuff, since that's the stuff most studios do these days? Is it wise to just have multiple reels for different studios types you'd apply to?

Cater your reel to the job you're applying for, yeah. If you're not sure what kind of stuff you'll be working on, a mix of it all is fine, but I wouldn't bother including asset driven animation if the production you're applying for is all hand drawn work. Having some solid hand drawn stuff is always good, because it transfers over to rigged animation fairly well either way. But yes, many studios are working in Toonboom or Flash, so you'll most likely be getting a job working with puppets.

>Is it essential you have a portfolio of non animated work if you have a good reel, or can you skip it?

Studios really like to see what drives you as an artist, what kinds of things you like to make. They’re looking for people similar to them, people who love to draw and create, and your portfolio is a good way to show that to them. Studios also enjoy having people that are multi-faceted and can move from place to place after a production finishes up so they don’t have to go looking for new people all the time. If you show them and let them know that you can do layout as well as animation, then they’ll just keep you on board for a different show instead of getting rid of your when there’s no more animation work to be done. If you’re only interested in animation and would rather just look for another studio, that’s totally fine too, but it’s nice to have a reliable place to go once a contract ends.

>>91253970
I'd say you have a shot then. As for the "too depressed to work thing", your gonna have to find a way to tackle that if you get in. I nearly dropped out of SVA freshman year because I spent majority of the time getting high and avoiding my problems when I should've been working. I was able to catch up thanks to a bunch of supportive friends/classmates but I can definitely see where I still fall behind in some terms of animation because I was too depressed to attend class or even work in my sketchbook.

I understand that our department is often referred to as "CalArts rejects" but the animation teachers here are still assholes (and I mean that in the best way possible). One of the freshmen classes was given two weeks to start and complete a minute long animation done entirely on paper.

As for if you don't get accepted right away, don't let it discourage you. Let it motivate you to keep on working. Try to begin and cultivate some sort of cartoony style (even if it looks generic to you at first), Study all sorts of film (both animated and live action), and always carry a sketchbook with you. I guarantee your overall art will improve and if you decide to reapply to SVA they will note how much the quality of your work has increased and you probably won't get wait listed again.

I hope this post didn't discourage you, I'm just trying to give you advice for both scenarios since I think you have a 50/50 chance of getting in.

>>91249618
>The only downside is that a lot of people who go to SVA for animation are all trying to become the next Rebecca Sugar.

Oh, SCAD animation right now is filled with Steven Universe fans who apparently not only draw Steven Universe OCs but it actually looks like that is the limit of their skill. They literally can ONLY draw Steven Universe stuff.

I'm not sure what their career goals are if they are not going to land that storyboarding job on Steven Universe. They cannot really draw anything else, or even care to try.

One thing I like to point out when it comes to professional studio work: No one cares for your OCs or original ideas. You are going to be hired to work on someone else's vision. It could be some soulless, glorified 20 minutes kids commercial with shameless product placement in a style that you personally find aborrent. It could be educational things aimed at 2-4 year olds. And you are expected to always give it your very best.

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>>91253379
>he was an animator
>in a nearly bankrupt studio
>he did it for free
>this is what he did on a Saturday

Animators have always been crazy stupid, but I love them so much.

>>91252968
I misspoke, I want access to the teachers and students rather than the degree itself.

I get what you're saying though, while I struggle at self teaching, it's forced me to really take charge of my education and I am better for it, but I'd like some really industry experience.

>>91254712
this is true for any job that isn't self-employment

How do I know when I'm drawing from the shoulder ?

When I try to, I grow tight at the top of the shoulder, is this the correct way ?

>>91255485
If your wrist and elbow are moving, you're not drawing from the shoulder.

A couple years ago I went to CalArts for animation my freshman year. If any anons got some questions about the school I can try and answer (like what the SVA and SCAD anons are doing here, you guys are cool and this is a cool thread).

>>91255574
Define Moving, as in on their own ?

Wouldn't I just be moving them anyway if I was drawing from the shoulder ?

>>91255681
I find it really hard to explain, hell, I didn't even get it until I saw it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3lApsNmdwM
Watch Feng draw. He explains it and shows it well.

>>91255578
Sweet. Did you graduate, or was it just the freshman year you completed? What did you do after CalArts?

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>>91255739
Thanks Anon

>>91255799
I didn't graduate, just completed freshman year. I just stayed for the one year because I didn't feel like I was making the most out of it at the time due to some personal stuff; but I did like the school a lot. Otherwise I've mostly been doing freelance design or illustration stuff after, nothing special.

>>91247656
/ic/ BTFO

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>>91255681
>>91255485
#1 Large Surface.
Most important thing to get into the flow of shoulder drawing, get a giant drawing surface. 18x24inch newsprint or bigger. 30x40 or a 5foot naruto scroll newsprint, which I used a long time ago. An instructor I once knew said the bigger the better. But 18x24 is good :P Buy a clipboard or steal a flat board somewhere.

#2 Fat medium.
Charcoal/conte/giant brush/Graphite sticks. It prevents broken lines and feathering habits. It forces your stroke to commit even if it's wrong. Gives you positive visual results, boosting your confidence while training you to draw with confident lines.

#3 Standing > Sitting
You're automatically in a relaxed pose, if you are bending your wrist or elbow, then you're probably straining your back to get into that position. Best way to do it is to draw standing at an easel. The standing position puts you and your back in a relaxed state for drawing. If you're not able to stand or get an easel. The wooden horse, if you're in a life drawing studio. Or Get two chairs(my personal favorite.) You sit in on one chair and place the second chair in front of you. rest that clipboard you bought or stole on the other chair's backrest. Now you have a relaxed drawing position to use your arms.

Now if you don't have or can't do any of those things or when you go back to drawing in a tiny sketchbook or digital tablet. Just consider, "locking your wrist" or keeping in mind the 90 degree perpendicular angle while drawing on the surface, will also prevent wrist bending/line feathering. Bending your elbow wont be as detrimental as bending your wrist, be in control of your wrist. I wouldn't say I'm a good artist, but I can definitely draw some fantastic lines curves, and freehand ellipses, with confidence.

Anyway it's an exercise to relax.

>>91250232
The world needs accountants, Cyril. Be proud!

>>91252967
Happy birthday anon

Jim Lee took his first real art class at 22
Of course everything is more competitive nowadays

>>91251689
Ah, well I already have a computer and a drawing pad so I'll continue and keep using that.

>>91255068
It's really hard to find experienced teachers who are willing to teach for free. I think the cheapest way is Animation Mentor since it's online, but again it's super important to network so you can make something out of your education, and Animation Mentor won't help you with that since you're stuck at home.

But as I said, just focus on self-studying for now. All that self-studying will pay off. In fact there's a great site called 11secondclub where you compete with other at-home animators ever month, and first place gets a free critique from an Animation Mentor teacher.

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>>91253957
>>91253973
Thanks anon, much apreciated. I had one other question, more for a friend and other anons in their shoes than for me:

If you know how to do frame by frame traditional animation, but have no idea how to do puppet tweening animation, is that something that's on you to learn, or would a job that accepts a fully traditional animation reel also train someone on toonboom for that sorta stuff?

>>91251961
For animation, Animator's Survival Kit.

Learning anatomy is super important too, so Classic Human Anatomy in Motion is a great book to have. Nothing can truly replace figure drawing classes though, so make sure you take those at your art center.

>>91254349
No, it hasn't discouraged me. I appreciate the response.

Can you tell me a bit about what the average student is like at SVA? Are there difference between programs?

I'm a little worried that it's all gonna be weebs or something and I'm not gonna gonna find any friends. I seem to be the only person who wants to go into animation but also doesn't like anime that I've seen.

>>91255926
Have you thought about going back? Is it possible to go back? Also, how easy was it for you to apply to the school?

Ive always wanted to go to CalArts but i never saw myself as good enough.

All the accepted portfolios I see are people doing shit in like 10 different styles like Jesus Christ I only know how to draw traditionally with pencil or charcoal.

Is it really that hard to get in or are these people going overboard with their portfolios?

>>91253174
Jesus shit though, where will you get 18,000$ when you're out?
That's a new mustang, bruh.

>>91257721
It's a loan, I don't expect to pay it all back at once. Since I'm a weeb, I'm going to see if I can use my degree to get a teaching job over in Japan while I work on my masters.

>>91257863
Let's see some of your art, fellow weeb.

>>91257427
Sure I've thought about it, but I'm pretty happy right now and I think it's possible, I've heard about people that have before, but it's not super important to me right now and I haven't looked too much into it. Applying was hard (I happen to get in my first try though), but I hear its a lot harder now since the last few years, a ton more people applying but accepted number staying about the same. It might have changed, but they focus a lot on life drawing for applications, but not like construction life drawing.

>>91257685
It's gotten harder to get in (see above). Almost everyone had like some kind of past art experience (college, summer session, CSSSA, arts high school, low level studio stuff, etc). I took some art classes at community college myself. you don't really have to know how to draw with everything, but they usually liked to see people experiment with different media in their sketchbooks. I had a few teachers tell me they liked seeing pen drawings too, mostly to show confidence in your work since you couldn't erase.

>>91247570
>sign up for art class
>first day
>teacher puts a bunch of 3D shapes on a table
>asks us to draw their positions relative to each other
>realize how horrible my spatial perception is
>drop the class

So, uh, how important is spatial perception to drawing?

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>>91257920

>>91257970
Ive taken a million classes before. I just don't have it in me to practice all the time.

I'm also too scared to do anything other than traditional stuff like this drawing >>91253816

It just seems like some many of those people are super experimental and I'm not comfortable going outside of the traditional style

>>91258059
Really important bruh. Not knowing the fundamentals is like not having legs. It's gonna really hinder you. Just keep on practicing. Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is a great book to help you with that.

>>91258177
OP here. Like I said getting outside of your comfort zone is really important. Have confidence in yourself. The difference between a pro and a beginner is that the pro has made a million more mistakes than the beginner and learned from them. If you never try, you'll always remain a beginner. What's the worst that can happen?

>>91258103
Dobson?

>>91258177
Its not the school for everyone honestly. I loved the atmosphere, and learned a lot, but I saw some people who just didn't. They definitely like people who experiment, but the school is kind of weird. It was always being pulled between being more "commercial" and being more "artsy." I think the teachers all had like their own way they wanted the program to go,like the life drawing teachers were more artsy while the teachers working in the industry were more commercial. When I draw I still like to just ask myself "what if?" to try new things.

>>91258059
Pretty sure classes are for learning stuff, you're not gonna automatically be good at everything first shot, you gotta practice and observe.

>>91258413
>>91257970

Also, when I said "the school" I meant character animation. The rest of the school is super artsy.

>>91258407
ಠ_ಠ

What have I ever done to you anon, that you're so mean to me?

>>91256954
>11secondclub

Looks like a pretty cool community, the winners all look professional to me. Though it seems most of the winners are 3D, should that be something I pursue as well?

>>91258617
Where do you want to go? Feng Zhu keeps saying 3D is what's in demand for concept art, and as far as feature films, it almost certainly wouldn't hurt. TV animation is mostly 2D, though.

>>91258694
I'd honestly like to get into features, so it seems like a good to learn 3D? Seems like that's a growth market at least.

My ultimate goal is an independent film or even mini series. Even if it made no money, it's something I want to point to and say I did that.

>>91258617
If you're interested in working on movies or games. You need to learn 3d to work with them at all. You'd have to change your mindset about how you see art. For example the concept art guys are more about being engineers or scientists.

>>91258484
Hi Margo, you still suck. ;y

>>91258617
meant to add this to my post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wN4GYIx12o

It's a long video, but this dude worked on the Naughty Dog games. He's really brutally honest about how production art goes and how it differs from comics/cartoons/animation/illustration.

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>>91259131
...w-...who's Margo?

>>91259208
No one important.
Keep working at it, you're great.

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>>91259255
I...ok? You've really confused me anon, but thanks.

>>91259076
>>91259157
I'll have to put that video on later.

I've been going back and forth with animation and comics, I'm wondering if I should drop one for the other at least in the short term and see If I can make some headway?

>>91251927

GF has great animation, and, although a lot of people will hate me for this, SU had some very interesting visuals, even the animation is not as good as GF.

Also, as far as I had seen the female fans are more character driven than story driven, but it might just be my impression. Admittedly that's writing still

>>91258423
Everyone around me was better and it was really shameful.

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Great thread OP! I've got a question I've always wanted to ask of a pro:

I have a severe (as in: 1/10 of a single eye) vision impairment but I still draw. I've figured out ways to work with it but I'm completely unable to do the relaxed "draw from the shoulder/elbow" thing. It's literally a choice between seeing what I'm drawing or drawing the way the pros do. My vision and limit on how much weight I can hold up keeps me drawing on somewhat small surfaces (usually 8x11.5 copy paper on a clip board I can smash into my face). So:

Have you ever worked with any visually impaired or otherwise disabled artists or seen techniques that could work for them? Or does it really even matter what/how an artist gets the job done, so long as it gets done?

>>91259740
Unless the other people were condescending pricks about your art, I don't think there was ever really a problem, you were just being over insecure. But if you don't want to take art classes again until you're better, like I said Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is the book to read. Make sure to do the exercises.

>>91258387
Ive just hyped up wanting to be an animator so much that I've gotten anxiety over drawing.

Its something I have to actively fight against whenever I draw.

>>91259843
If that's your work, that's really cool, man, I think the use of crosshatching is great.

I don't know about visually impaired artists, but I know there have been a couple of successful cartoonists with motor skill problems who have been successful, mainly peanuts and the pelswick guy

>>91259843
The latter is what you should worry about. It's the results that count. All that shoulder/elbow stuff is just advice for more efficient lines, but there's never a solid rule of drawing something as long as the results are what you want.

There weren't any physically disabled artists in my class, but have you looked up artists with disabilities. They have way worse conditions than you, but they're still able to make art:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXdLjwoD5bI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49rcgDWJhBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6E1z_KV2gs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKNv3YB9pO0

When it comes to working in the industry though, they won't mind hiring you as long as you can prove you can work as fast as non-disabled people, which can takes a lot more effort, but still possible if you really think it's with the effort.

>>91260083
Don't worry man, I was there too. You just can't let your art define you as a person. The fact that "you're a nobody without your art" just isn't true. Just have fun with it. When those artists at CalArts were experimenting, they probably were just having fun with it, so you should too. But I know it's not that easy. The first step is to simply accept you'll make mistakes, but you can learn from them. The sooner you fail, the sooner you'll accept your flaws, and the sooner you'll improve. Good luck.

>>91260134
Haha, yeah, that's a recent thing of mine. Thanks very much for the compliments! And thanks for letting me know about the artists with motor issues! I forgot about Charles Schultz's issues and I hadn't heard of Pelswick.

>>91260347
Thanks for the links! Hilariously, I've been at this for almost 30 years and did not think to look up artists with other disabilities in general, though I did meet another blind animator (I think they did a lot of CG work). And thanks very much for answering my question; I've been wondering it for years and it's nice to finally get some closure for it. I burned out as a freelance artist so I don't think I could ever do animation, but I have always had mad respect for anyone who can do that kind of work. Rock on, animator anon!

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How do I not feel like crap for not going to uni right after secondary school? I want to give myself some time to work on my art, try to get a job, and I dunno if art school is exactly what I have in mind. It makes me feel like a failure not doing it, aside of having repeated a couple of years of high school
Any tips on freelancing? How can I find my "thing" with art (be it style, themes, etc) so I can sell my shit? I don't want it to feel insincere either
Sorry if I'm not making sense I'm a little drowzy now

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>>91247586
>and the best are teaching at art schools

>>91260724
Not an expert on freelancing but I'd suggest doing commissions. Offer people to draw stuff for them based on a certain niche.

>>91260724
What the other anon said: try selling commissions. But don't get too down if nobody bites initially; it takes time to build up a fanbase. In the meantime, just draw stuff. Anything, everything! Things you like, things you have a hard time drawing, abstract stuff, doodles in notebook margins...anything!

>>91260724
Important question: Are you actually working on your art everyday? A lot of this thinking comes from people who are thinking about pursuing a career of art, but haven't really started yet, and then the insecurities come in. I bet if you start drawing a little bit everyday, you'll start feeling better about yourself and have a better idea if art school is right for you. Don't let video games and internet browsing distract you from your goals. Try spending 3 days without the internet, TV, or games, and just draw. See how you feel then.

But if I'm wrong and it's other circumstances that brought you in you're situation, correct me please.

>>91260889
Correction: "Real" art schools, at least those in with legit character animation department. Either way if you don't agree with their teaching, you certainly can agree they will help you find a job quickly as long as you put effort into networking.

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>>91260347
Got a chance to watch the videos; I've heard of Maria and the last guy is basically me, only I can't paint for shit (and I've never had full sight, which is kind of a blessing since I don't have to grieve anything I never had). It's all Sharpies and high-contrast b/w 95% of the time (with color experiments in marker/digitally once in awhile). Thanks again for the advice and links!

(Trying to find recent stuff that is interesting for my /co/mrades is tough; all I've had time for lately is fanart and not-board-appropriate commissions.)

>>91261022
I do try drawing everyday, though they are either small doodles/scribbles, or I just don't draw that particular day due to being depressed or in pain. I want to start being more disciplined, but I have to sort those out first (specially the arm pain, going to the doc soon).

>>91261019
>>91260943
Thank you, anons. I do want to start taking commissions, but Paypal isn't officially out in my country so I'd have to do some weird shit to take the money out of the account, not to mention how much of it I would actually get after taxes etc. I could just limit my sales to my country, but then my range would be very shallow.
I was also thinking of having a Patreon and have some high tier rewards that included monthly commissions?

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>tfw uprooting my whole life to go to art school

I'm scared guys

>>91261455
You can have a backup plan you know. You can study art on the side while pursuing another safer degree in case art doesn't work out for you. You don't need to spend all your college years on art.

>>91257351
Suicidal SVA grad here. I gotta go to work but if the thread is still up I'll write up a post. But in brief 1st year was kindergarten, people changing majors, every one generally friendly and shy. In my major, illustration students were very serious and hardworking. Whoever said cartooning was fitfags was pretty accurate. They were quite immature without disrespecting them too much. However they loved inking, I saw some really good art from them. Anyway BBL

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>>91261143
You obvs know your situation better than me, but if you haven't you should look up artists whose work uses things like high contrast in cool ways.like maybe Sergio Toppi (pic) or Mike Mignola. Don't copy them but figure out like why their stuff works with values and see if you can apply it to your own work in your own way. You can do nice shape language stuff with just simple value.

>>91260600
Speaks some truth that I should have said, have fun with it. It can tough at first, but hopefully you get to a place where you draw because you like to do it. Also right that everyone enjoyed experimenting a little, but it doesn't happen over night and there's no one "correct" way to do it.

So I'm a transgirl and I'm going into SVA this year for Animation.

The school seems LGBT friendly enough but I'm kind of worried the students will all be SJWs and will automatically assume I'm one too and try to make me like the token tranny or something.

I'd just go stealth but I'm pretty early on so I'm not passable yet.

I guess my question is, how SJW is the student-base at SVA?

>>91261906
Don't know how SJW the school is (but based on what the anons say, they're mostly furries so SJW and political concerns probably aren't a priority since they're lost in their fantasy fur world). But anyway just tell them you don't like to make your trans a big deal and they'll respect that.

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>>91261691
Mignola is awesome but, alas, I've never been able to see his work very well at all. I got most of my context in his comics from the dialogue. Sergio Toppi looks awesome!

Vision problems are a treat and everyone's different. I've switched careers from freelance to teaching now because I couldn't handle the stress of relying on eyesight that might vanish at any time. Still love to draw, though, and I'm hoping to get back into doing comics if I ever get free time again.

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I'm 28

I feel dead and I don't think I should pursue any of my dreams because its too late

good luck to all of you out there though

>>91262238
(This is so old, sorry folks. Haven't actually made a board-appropriate comic page in over a year.)

>>91262308
Bro, not even. You're dreams are pursuable at any age! I didn't even figure out what mine were until I was in my 30s. Others figure theirs out in their 40s or 70s. It's never too late. Don't swallow the bullshit that you figure everything out in your 20s.

>>91262308
It takes about 11 years to truly master something.

Do you plan on dying at 39? If not, then you have time to master 4 or 5 different things. If you want art to be one of those, then get the fuck on it, faggot.

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>>91247570
Did you go to the Savannah or Atlanta campus? I was thinking about applying to SCAD Atlanta since the campus is smaller and I've heard better things about the surrounding area, but I'm not really sure how the animation program is there.

>>91251717
Are you getting any residuals from your work? If so, is it enough to live on or is it just some extra pocket money each month?

What do you do mainly to pay your bills? Contract/comission work for clients/studios?

>>91262194
I got waitlisted so I'm technically not in yet

I'm just hoping I can get in soon enough so I can get a single dorm.

It'd be a little awkward to be rooming with a guy while looking like a chick..

>>91262415
that's nice and all but there's no schools for mastering that shit where I live (and by live I mean the whole fucking country), without taking into account that I have a degree on graphic design, know 2 languages fluently and I still can't land a job because again, I live in a shitstain of a country where they pay shit for the education I had

I should've dropped out of school and worked at a mcdonalds, I'd be better off

I honestly wake up everyday thinking to myself "welp, have to live another day, what a bummer"

I need help, because I made a terrible mistake.
I'm currently on my third semester for a Graphic Design major, it was the most art-related major I could get on my area, even still I had to move out of my hometown to enter here.

And I almost inmediatly regreted it, I haven't worked on my art for almost a year, I feel depressed and I'm considering changing my major to something safer like electronic engineering or compsci and pursue my art dreams as a hobby.

Should I keep going? I will most surely have to do this semester all over again

>>91263123
Why did you regret it?, if you don't work daily on your art you will lose confidence in yourself.

>>91263123
I'm
>>91262308
>>91262854

go ahead and switch your route, do whatever feels right to you, DO NOT HEED ON SOMEBODY ELSE's PATH

believe in yourself and what you want, its better to fuck up by yourself than from the words of others, IMO playing it safe will only feel like a waste of time in the long run

>>91263248
I'm not that sure, it isn't what I expected, I just can't get myself to work on stupid infographics, essays about user experience and usability on webpages and museums or even work on vector-based software.

I knew what I was getting into, and planned to use this knowledge and networking I could get as an advantage for my comic-animation-whatever.
But I just lost interest.

>>91263123

It kind of depends on your exact situation and how far you're willing to go right?

If you straight up don't like graphic design or want to be a graphic designer its stupid as shit to stay, debt or no debt because as far as I can tell the field is over saturated and doesn't pay well at all unless you strike it lucky.

Then the next step if you don't like it is pretty much how much debt/money(you shouldn't have too much yet if it's only been three semesters) you have versus how much you want to make your actual art career of choice your future.

If you're not willing to potentially shoulder a pretty big financial burden/a lot of work in both changing your major and moving somewhere where you can actually get the major/career path you want then art is a hobby for you.

And that's fine honestly, you can still do cool things in art even if it's not your main career but you have to make a choice.

>>91263450
Yeah, I think it just ain't woth it, I'll see what other career path I can take on college, because GD just isn't my thing.

Thanks for the advice, it's good to see nice anons on nice threads like this

>>91263123
If you don't go into art class every day thinking "Holy fuck I get to draw today" then honestly you should quit. Unless you're using that GD major to get into a drawing course/field you like later on and you're just enduring it for now.

When it comes to art, you have to fucking love it. If you don't have the passion, don't torture yourself. You'd have better luck with jobs and salaries just doing a more reliable job you're lukewarm on.

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thank you for this thread, so much great info. so im senior in highschool (not underage) and i need advice. im considering getting a bachelors degree in computer science... or fulfill my passion for art. thing is, ive heard all the horror stories about how artists hardly make enough money to scrape by. what the fuck do i do? this is making me anxious 24/7. should i just get CS degree and do art commissions on the side for extra money? i just need reassurance and advice pls. some figure drawing i did a month ago. did it in about 7 min?

>>91264441
Not a art major here, but I always heard it's a good idea to pair a CS major with something else, like business. Or maybe you can join an art club, the ones at my college host some life drawing lessons. What kind of art major were you looking to pursue?

>>91264441
Do you want to make vidya? Go into computer science. Computer science degrees are much more in demand for making vidya, and you can draw on the side and become a project leader or something. People like Iwata didn't start as artists, they were programmers.

That said, studio artists get paid pretty well. It's freelancers who scrape by, because you have to be pretty much always looking for new work, marketing yourself, and getting on that next gig while fighting off fierce competition. Obviously, studio jobs are harder to get and having a degree won't necessarily help you there if your art isn't up to snuff.

What exactly would you want to do with your art?

>>91264584
honestly not too sure, i hadnt thought of actually trying for an art related degree until yesterday (because i was too put off by the fact they make little money). im basically stuck between something i love but not being able to support myself (most likely) or being more able to support myself and doing a job i may only like a little or not much at all

>>91264441
You should do both. Get a bachelors in computer science, and study the fundamentals of art on the side through art centers. Don't take art classes in a university, take them at you local art centers because it's cheaper, no grades to pressure you, and you learn more.

>>91264597
i havent thought about what to do with my art in terms of using it to make money, honestly, up until recent ive only thought of it as a hobby. do you think i could major in one and minor in the other and do what you said, work with video game companies? that sounds nice, actually. i always thought writing the storyboards would be fun too.

>>91264703
Probably depends on the college you go to, some only offer certain concentrations as majors or minors.

>>91264668
im not well enlightened when it comes to college and stuff. i heard many companies like to see degrees and will be more likely to hire. does going to an art center provide some kind of advantage when looking for a job or just for more practice?

>>91264760
ah ok. do places that hire necessarily look for degrees in art or would they just ask for a portfolio .. or something?

How is the animation scene in England ?
I intend to move there a few years from now to pursue film school, and while film is one of my passions I always wanted to get into animation.
Most of the film schools I visited there did not have departments on animation.

>>91264762
Any art related company focuses more on your portfolio, not your degree. A degree might help a little, but what they mainly want is a great portfolio. The most important thing above all of this though is keep connections with the teachers and colleges you meet so they can help you find a job in a future.

>>91264842
>colleges
Typo. Meant colleagues.

>>91264762
Classes outside of colleges offer a lot more freedom and choice. You could just do a whole bunch of life drawing on the cheap(the one I go to is $15 a week, but you can probably find cheaper) and get a lot of experience that way. There's also a huge amount of material and such in the form of books and workshops that can help you git gud. One of the advantage to non college classes is that if you feel you haven't gotten as good as you like, you can usually just take the class again(although I did this at my CC anyways at the urging of my professor, because it was the highest level for that course they had).

>>91264787
If you're looking to produce art, they're going to be looking at your portfolio. If it came down to choosing between to equal artists and only one had a degree, the guy with the degree might get it but otherwise it's really about skill.

Certain jobs, like Art Director, or any sort of academic teaching, are going to be looking for that degree.

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>>91247586
>it's still your responsibility to create those social connections between companies and people in the industry in order to get your first job

Sorry for my social ineptness, but you just... make friends with these people, then ask for a job when you graduate? But isn't that pretty much using them and won't they pick up on that and hate you for it and then you'll end up blacklisted, in a sense?

>>91264944
If you're a sperg about it, maybe. You keep in touch and when looking for work you ask something like
>Hey have you heard about any jobs in X
And likewise if they ask you to hook them up with a connection, you help them out.
>Hey Anon I heard you know that art director, can you introduce me?
Yes to some degree you are using them, but everyone knows this. It's a system of favors you're expected to return when they call on you.

>>91264883
>>91264842
thanks for all the advice, it really means a lot to me! (thank god i rid myself of /ic/ you guys are way nicer and actually helpful) before i say cya, one last quick question: what career paths/jobs would be good for someone with a cs bachelors and an art portfolio to show? as in what jobs would look for someone with computer programming skills and art skills, if you happen to know? thanks again

>>91261532
i do already have a business degree

I don't know if you'll be able to answer this question, but for about two years now I've had this idea for a cartoon that I've kind of made my baby. I know this really isn't a good thing to do, but I've gotten attached to it to the point that, while I'm open to changing and adjusting it, I don't think I could handle making it in an environment where I had to give up a majority of creative control.

Given that, I've considered taking this idea to something like netflix where I feel like I'd be given more freedom to make what I truely want. Can you give you thoughts on the validity of this idea? Should I just give up and accept that I've become too attached to this idea?

>>91265167
>Should I just give up and accept that I've become too attached to this idea?
Yeah, probably. Even Netflix is likely to have final creative control, though they may not exercise it.

Don't give up on it, but put it away and come back to it later. You might find yourself looking at it with fresh eyes and less attached.

I'd like to throw a little of my two cents into the pile, if you don't mind.

One of my biggest regrets for going into art school for animation, was exactly that. I lacked any sort of art background, and while its true you don't need to be a good artist to be an animator, it certainly helps when trying to get it good with clients and studios.

I can not stress enough how important illustration and art fundamemtals are. You should be pouring all your resources into learning anatomy, how the form bends and twists, how and where to properly crease clothing, what can you get away with in exaggerating the form that can be deemed as your style, etc. Personally I find animation to be the easier of the two. Both take tons and tons of practice, you won't be a maestro in a day, but I feel animation is much simpler to learn, especially on your own. Its just the motion, not the meat of it all, which would be the design and the story. And to be frank, if you're going for 2d animation hand drawn, you won't get very far if its just looks like complete garbage.

And if you don't at least consider what I say and jump right into school for animation, please for the love of god take an figure drawing class, at the very least.

>>91265208
You're probably right. At least I'm not attached to the point that I can't change it, in fact I'm very open to outside ideas, its more about not having the final say that scares me. I would still rather give up control than never see it made at all I guess.

The frustrating thing is all of my art for it, or at least the pieces I've done that I like, are all of the climactic spoilery moments that I can't post online for fear that one day if it ever was a show someone could dig it up and find it.

>>91265297
>>91265208
Meant to mention in that the actual thing that concerns me most is dealing with S&P. In an ideal world where I could make whatever I want, the show would get pretty damn intense, and I know the censors will be holding me back quite a bit, and with no reference for what I'd actually be allowed to do, its hard to judge what ideas I can actually let myself build on.

>>91265011
>Yes to some degree you are using them, but everyone knows this. It's a system of favors you're expected to return when they call on you.

Oh cool, that seems fair enough. That was actually very helpful. Thanks a bunch, anon.

Also another thing; see, I'm 18 and live in Australia but I plan on moving to America to live with some internet buddies within the next 2 years and I was wondering how much, just speaking generally, the fees are for most art colleges over there? Also I don't know if this is important to getting into art schools in the US but I dropped out of school in 11th grade, BUT on the plus side I was in some state-acclaimed gifted and talented art program for the whole of high school.

Does art school just come down to the portfolio or?

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For a really long time now I've been focusing on studying film, first and foremost. I have a lot of ideas for movies and tv shows written down and I'm saving money to buy my own equipment and to at least have a short film finished by the end of this year. I also have plans to pursue a film school for purposes of networking and equipment.
However, I've always been extremely interested in animation and in doing work in animation. Problem is, I suck ass at drawing, never even tried animating and I haven't practiced much at all because of other priorities.
How is the overlap between the film industry and the animation industry ?
How difficult would it be for me, assuming I do become a director like I intend to, make contacts with people in the animated industry and land work as an animator ?

Also, thank you OP for this wonderful thread, you've answered a lot of doubts that have been plaguing me for a while now.

>>91265392
>how much, just speaking generally, the fees are for most art colleges over there?
See my post here>>91253174
I don't know what kind of grants are available for international students, but your government might pay for a bit of your tuition.
>Also I don't know if this is important to getting into art schools in the US but I dropped out of school in 11th grade, BUT on the plus side I was in some state-acclaimed gifted and talented art program for the whole of high school.
You need your HS diploma or equivalent.
>Does art school just come down to the portfolio or?
To some degree. If your portfolio is SUPER GOOD they'll take you regardless of almost anything else(you will still need that HS diploma, seriously they won't even look at you without it). Otherwise you're going to want to have a good GPA and some extracurriculars, and letters of recommendation are always helpful.

>>91253236
Tax credits don't offset that wages in Canada are high by international standards (though lower than in many other developed countries) and, more importantly, BS expenses are through the roof.

>>91265520
Have you thought about being a writer? That's probably the most adaptable job between live action and animation. It can be your job to break in the animation industry and eventually get you a job as a director. Jeff Goode, the creator of American Dragon: Jake Long, is actually just a writer, but he was still able to pitch his idea to Disney TV and then he became the director of the show in which he gathered a team of Disney artists to help him realize his vision. Same thing with Alex Hirsch and Gravity Falls, although he does know how to draw, he's not the best artist and is more of a writer.

If you want to learn how to make animations though, best get started on taking art classes. Just focus on self-studying for the next year or two and see how that goes.

Alright, I'll bite. I want to write for cartoons, but I don't want to storyboard and my art skills are subpar at best. Is there hope for me? Can I just be a writer for cartoons? Or is it a, if you can't draw well, don't bother, type of deal?

>>91247570
no such thing as a dream job.

>>91266062
Sure. There are plenty of opportunities for cartoon writers who don't know how to draw.

There's this Nickelodeon writing program you should check out:

https://www.nickanimationstudio.com/writing-program

>>91266117
Literally bullshit.

>>91266127
But writing is in itself a skill, so a degree in screenwriting could help, but I have no idea how that will work out since that's not what I studied. And having some drawing ability doesn't hurt at all.

>>91266127
Hell yeah, thanks for the link. Mind if I ask another question? What kind of portfolio would I want for that? I'm currently working with a professor to develop my screenplay portfolio. Does that work?

>>91266044
>Have you thought about being a writer?
I do, actually. I just wanted to be able to both write and direct.
But I think writing is probably going to be much easier for me than animating. And being a director is still my bigger priority.
But I appreciate the advice.

>>91266175
Perhaps. But you should continue that research since I don't know much about writing. Again practicing, researching, networking, and getting out of your comfort zone is key.

>>91266224
Thanks, m8. I'm a creative writing major in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, but a professor here is a veteran from the TV industry and is working with me to get me up to snuff to compete with the big kids from LA to NYC.

>>91266117

This. Work is work.

>>91266136
>bullshit

Speaking from experience, I trust?

>>91266366
Work is work and should be treated as such, but you can still enjoy what you do.

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Canadian here. I'm studying at Algonquin College for animation. I've heard all the memes about how it's a waste to go into art but I'm good at absolutely nothing else and this environment has been really good for me. I want to make a name for myself through independent works while doing professional works too.
I hope someday you'll see pic related on paper.

>>91266383
This, a dream job isn't so much do what you like as it is that you like what you do.

>>91266366
>Speaking from experience, I trust?

Working with others to put on events beats working the turkey leg stand at Six Flags by miles.

>>91262544
Hey it's the SVA fag (once again)

Honestly nobody gives a shit about whether or not your trans/gay/ect. People here first and foremost care about what your art looks like and/or how friendly you are. There's a few kids in the department rn who are transferring to other schools because they decided to burn bridges with everyone and be overall assholes. No matter what school you go to, DONT DO THAT. Starting shit with your classmates really can effect whether or not you get gigs in the long run. You never know who's gonna make it big.

Also, I'm not gonna lie, a sizeable portion of the department is weebs. But there's some pretty chill people here too (drag queens, club kids, a lot of people you'd associate more with NYC nightlife at first glance rather than animation students)

>>91262437
can't comment on the animation program in atlanta, but as a savannah student that got evacuated there last year for the hurricane, the area is much nicer, at least the immediate area, a few blocks away it gets a little crummy looking, but theres some nice restuarents within walking distance (and some kind of puppetry museum? didnt get a chance to hit that up), and all the skyscrapers and architecture are nice. not as bad as the savannah animation area, which is literally in the middle of a ghetto, in a town that changes from pretty to run down practically every block

Does anyone have any advice on breaking into storyboarding? im an animation student at SCAD with a minor in storyboarding but ive become rather disenchanted with the whole thing and would rather work much closer to the story department than be on the animation crew, and I'm not terribly sure where to move with it

>>91262544
There's literally nothing wrong with being gay.

>>91262194
Very LGBT friendly. You're in NYC. There were at least 3-4 queer kids in every class I was in. And at least 1 super vocal feminist in humanities classes. The only thing possibly is foreign students. There is a heavy FoB Asian population in the school, mainly Korean and Chinese. I think Asians are the second biggest demo after white students. Then Hispanic then black.

>>91261906
>>91257351
So I went to SvA pre occupy Wall Street. Pre Tumblr and Facebook was .Edu email exclusive. Circa late 2000s.

First year everyone was super young. I was 17 I came from a bit of a ghetto background so it was a culture shock to me. They combined all the majors together for first year. It was like high school plus. A few kids were into partying NyC night life and doing drugs having sex with each other. I hung out with the more weeb kids. Overall every one was friendly but immature. Instructors were basically there to hold your hand as you get used to college life. Humanities was different. Those instructors took themselves very seriously. The students didn't really enjoy humanities so much, except for art history majors of course.

Year two the majors separate. Cartooning and illustrators share a lot of instructors and classes. Year ones start dropping like flies too. Transfer out or become entirely different majors. You take a lot of cool classes this year.

Year 3. Shit gets serious. Head of department tries to scare you about treating this like a career. And how many people fail at becoming artists. This is highly effective for students and they take it to heart. My instructor made a point in telling us that one of his good students now pumps his gas in NJ. Brutal. Anyway, year 3 is the thesis project. You work on a major portfolio quality project that is your answer to the thesis. The art is put on display kids get very serious and become shut-ins? Don't get in their way attitude. Many were nice though.

Final year. preparing you for becoming a professional. If you didn't figure your shit out by now you're fucked. The serious students get asspats from the instructors and the lazy kids get ignored and kinda dismissed. It's kind of like the ant+grasshopper fable. Upsetting. Many people cried when it was time for their final review. I saw a girl break out into tears after hers. She ran out crying. I'll end it here.

>>91267965
I'm glad the serious students were recognized as actually doing what they were supposed to do. Good story

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B-but, where do I learn how to draw

>>91268132
jus b urself

>>91266127
What other opportunities are there for cartoon writers. Is there a resource that lists them? I'm a professional comic writer myself but even my animation friends who work on actual TV productions have no idea how any of their writers got the job.

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hello anon
looks like animation thread has died
so I post here

these are some of my autism works
share some opinion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcwjwDbgEyE
https://vimeo.com/197965573
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfEla4d4Hhce47N4ufuzyrqSogbf02Vq5

btw, most time I post on /ic/,
they tell me to kill myself
I guess I don't have talent

>Animation School

Its a trap. Most are for-profit scam colleges that charge more than Harvard. Even if you land a job in the industry they don't pay enough to justify anything remotely creative.

Go community college for Gen Eds and as much as you can. That's the ONLY way you'll get ahead.

If not, have rich parents willing to pay.

Any type of student loans will be financial suicide.

>>91252967
Happy bday!

>>91268734
I wish someone had told me this years ago. At the moment I'm just trying to pay back everything and self teach what I missed.

>>91268723
That's why you got to research about the school and not just go to the school with the most advertising. Private art schools such as CalArts and Sheridan are worth the money. For-profit schools such as Gnomon and Full Sail can die in a fire. You can tell with just an easy google search if it's for-profit or not.

>>91268132
This, please.

>>91268132
Your local Art Supply shop may offer a few class sessions for drawing, or they could point you in a good direction for classes.

>>91269745
Are classes usually the way to go? Any recommendation on online resources?

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>>91262474
Nah, you need to be on a pretty fucking big book to meet the units sold demand for royalties. They are pretty sweet if you land a gig at DC or Marvel though

I was living with the parents for a bit when I took the plunge to go full-time, but I'm looking at moving back out. I'm only on $100 per page (250 per cover) so it's nothing crazy, a pretty standard starting rate.

I work for American publishers. Currently working for Dynamite Ent., previously BOOM! Studios. I do commissions on the side too at $150 each

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I was looking to make a reel here in a bit
Would a reel even be necessary if all I'm looking to do is get into storyboarding?

>>91247570
how dead in the water are your art choices if you come from a 3rd world country?

>>91268132
>>91269605
You have some options.

Check around for a weekly life drawing place. If you ask the instructor for help he'll probably give you some advice, and probably wouldn't mind pointing you towards learning resources.

There are various workshops going on all over the place at any given time. At least for me, there's a lot of stuff like that. Look for a local art association or art museum, because they almost certainly have some sort of classes.

There's also a billion online sources, from free stuff like the various youtubers, to paid stuff like the Watts Atelier(which, if you're in California, has on-site classes to).
>>91270011
Youtube has a lot of resources. I posted a bunch of links further up.

>>91270207
how many years did it take for you to get to that point?

>>91271054
I only started drawing comics properly a year and a half ago. All about how you push yourself and who you know

>>91270570
Make a name for yourself in your country. Make a comic, make short films, upload stuff on Youtube. There's actually a lot of online freelance animators from 3rd world countries. Then with all that beefy stuff in your resume you can move abroad into the major studios.

>>91270531
You don't need a reel, but you still need a great portfolio with storyboarding stuff in.

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>>91266127
Anything like this for leafs?

>>91271379
Can I still make an animation reel, though?
A lot of the stuff I board, I also feel like animating

>>91268713
Don't go to online communities for critique. Spend time with real life artists in your area. /ic/ is full of insecure beginner artists and tryhards who take art way too seriously and actually believe a drawing represents their self worth.

Just continue to have fun with it anon. You seem to have a lot of the basic animation principles down. Although people in /ic/ may know more about what makes good animation, they actually haven't crated many animations themselves either because of laziness or insecurity. You've probably created way more animations than most people on /ic/, and you're ahead of the game because of it. It's one thing to know something and another to actually execute it.

>>91271389
There's actually an International version of the same thing. Just click the international tab:

https://www.nickanimationstudio.com/writing-program

Other than that though, best do some solid research. It helps to look at the actual studio websites for career/internship opportunities. But it's difficult to get those unless you have a real life person to help connect you.

>>91268545
Same as above. Best do research since I don't know much else.

>>91270570
You just need to draw pretty good and know how to write/speak english.......also its better if you are white. Once i finish studying my career i'am going to Florida where my uncles live

>>91267358
Dude, literally same on all accounts. Maybe we took classes together.

>>91270991
None of the YouTube links is really what I'm looking for. Looking at the channels, I'm hoping for a channel that starts from the very basics.

>>91271669
>thinking being white is an advantage nowadays
>thinking being white isn't a barrier nowadays
>thinking border control cares about anything other than your country of citizenship

>>91272143
Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is a good book to teach you the very basics of drawing, then you can move on to all those tutorials.

>>91272143
Alright. I would say go pick up Perspective Made Easy. It doesn't have exercises but you'll regret it if you don't get a solid grasp of perspective out of the gate. It's $8 on Amazon and if you're too cheap for that you can find it in /ic/'s book thread.
>>91272333
Addendum to this: Betty Edwards likes to parade around a bunch of pseudo-science garbage. Get the workbook version, it's the exercises that are important.

I want to know how to get into the business of animation. Who to hire, how to manage, how to make a good product, how to get publicity, etc.

I don't want to be a low wage animator working for others.

With that said. Let's say I have 35k to waste on either webcomics or japanese in-betweeners. I can write mature, atmospheric, clever, uncharted ideas, but I need a co-writer to filter me and do half the writing himself.

I know Disney hires offshores and Hasbro hires freelancers, but they do it officially. Where do I read about legally hiring a small artistic workforce?

Plan 0 is YouTube.
Plan A is to make something cheap, but fun and exploitable enough then send it to CN or Adultswim.
Plan B is to copy and improve popular, but medriocre IPs like Star Vs, Hanazuki , Mystery Skulls(not a real IP) to gain popularity. When I get enough of a fanbase, I will branch the copied IP into something original, but lovable by everyone.

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>>91271516
thanks for advice

currently creating a bigger project and is closing to finish it
trying to submit to some film festivals

although my teacher say my work is not that bad
I'm still worry about what if I just wasted a whole year in this

>Getting your dream job
I want to write comics, but I'm not an artist.
What's the best way to get my comics made? Just pay tumblr/deviantautists to make my shit, and try to make a profile to show off to better artists?

>>91270531
Oh I recognize that qtrobo.

>>91273299
If you aren't going to be working for a publisher anytime soon, it'll be easier to learn how to draw yourself than to find a decent artist who won't flake on you (even with pay).

>>91274020
Not even for limited page count stories?
I figured that if I was going to be paying artists from my own pocket, I'd only do 3,4,5,6 pages for a story at a time. Just to not have to drop $150 per page for 22 pages.

>>91274090
The shorter your comic the easier it'll be to find an artist that won't flake out on you.

>>91274275
I figured as much, but that just goes back to how to get them made. Should I just go around to artist alleys and try to talk them up? Stalk them on tumblr and twitter and find out when they have open commission spots?
Kidnap their children and ransom them?

i love drawing cows and horses, i don't know if i have any future work, but i love doing it.

>>91274837
People are crazy about their horses. If you haven't been, see if you can get to the Equine Affaire in MA or OH. I only went once, but there was a decent amount of artists and LOTS of people dropping a lot of money. People who have horses generally have the money to drop on that kind of shit, so there's a future there if you want it. Hell, some schools have courses just for equestrian painting.

Do you guys have some GOD-TIER tutorial youtube videos,books/downloadable books,web pages about learning the basics of drawing (like hands feets etc.)?

>>91276084
Here's two great videos on drawing butts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC145FQM_Xo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swwbgNeRFOQ

>>91276224
T-thanks anon

>>91276224
Dax is weird but damn if he doesn't know anatomy shit.

>>91271434
>>91270531
You can do whatever you want, man. No one's going to be looking at an animation demo reel if they're hiring a board artist, but including a leica reel or animatic of something you've boarded is good way for your employer to understand how you cut and edit your work. They're going to want to see your rough drawings and how clearly and concisely you can compose a shot.

Is the guide on /ic/ any good to follow for learning how to draw?

>>91247570
bump

>>91274522
You should pay them you dense asshole.

>>91281656
No shit I'll pay them, I'm talking about finding and getting into contact with them. I'm always told that talking to them in person, but I don't know WHERE to meet them. That's the crux of my question. How do I find these artists.

>>91273076
animation isn't bad, and I agree with >>91271516 that you're already ahead. Keep going. Learn from life and put it back into your animation. Learn what makes good stories click and try it out with your own stuff. Good luck