"Launching a legacy character by killing off or humiliating

I think the Aja/Fraction book is fine and I don't mind Hawkguy there but would prefer for the character to grow again, like he has in the past. Look at when Clint led the Thunderbolts.

So like I don't think Kate is a doomed legacy but I don't think you need to constantly sell her as better than that shitty Hawkeye, which very often is what happens. It's like they see a core part of Kate's identity as being that Clint is a failure and like I say, original series, there was a lot going on and they both worked shit out. Move on from it and let both characters develop now.

>>91215849
No because it's not yelling feminist shit, only females that yell feminist tantrums have a valid opinion.

File: 1490820863194.jpg (446KB, 843x1034px) Image search: [Google]

446KB, 843x1034px

Wilson is seriously too good for Marvel.

I'm still not sure how a character with the backstory of "I got raped by a hobo so I became a superhero" was at all successful.

It seems like the kind of thing Marvels target audience would hate

>>91215948
>It seems like the kind of thing Marvels target audience would hate
Take a look at CBR, the current Marvel readership didn't read anything that came before 2014.

>>91215946
She gives her company too much credit. Wilson's take on the factors in Ms. Marvel's success is so far removed from the logic on display in other books that it legitimately disturbs me.

File: hawkrape.jpg (405KB, 1200x1860px) Image search: [Google]

405KB, 1200x1860px

>>91215948

>>91215946
There are some properties I'm sure Wilson would do really well on with DC.

>>91215948
>>91216222
Why do feminists hate characters that are rape survivors again? I would think that bouncing back from being raped to become a literal superhero would be about the most empowering thing imaginable.

>>91216283
Because that is not how rape works.

No one bounces back from rape, it destroys you forever and you become a walking husk of your previous self. Bad writers use rape because they dont understand it and think it is cool and edgy.

>>91216283
Feminist idea of empowerement is arguing whether Carol Danvers punches as strong as Hulk at the expense of Hulk.

>>91216283
I guess they don't like the weird sexual connotations or whatever. Some probably just don't like using rape for cheap drama.

>>91216283
Because it's the go to trauma for a female character. Men get dead parents. Women get raped.

>>91216283
'muh agency', whatever that means.

So triggered Cain had to retcon a story that was decades old just to force it

>>91215948
>I'm still not sure how a character with the backstory of "I got raped by a hobo so I became a superhero" was at all successful
Better than the "bored rich girl" background she initially had

>>91216255
She wrote some Vertigo books in the past.

>>91216283
A man had sex with a woman. That's enough reason for them to hate it.

File: airv2cvr-100.jpg (156KB, 663x1019px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 663x1019px

>>91216511
Air and Wrote Superman for liked 4 issues.

>>91216283
Lots of writers use rape of female characters as a cheap way to add drama, angst or trauma without much build-up. Feminists don't like it because it reduces real women to broken, hollowed-out victims (and they can say this while simultaneously claiming that every woman reacts differently, but whatever), or for other, more navel-gazing reasons. And, because they love their blanket rules, many of then go on to say that rape in stories is verboten, regardless of how it's brought up or executed, or what purpose it serves. Some say it's off-limits, period, but others are OK with revenge rampages, or stories that try to teach a lesson. So they're OK with characters that survived rape so long as it comes from "the right people", but they assume that pre-existing characters were made in bad faith.

The odd thing is that their takes are becoming as cliched as the stuff they're railing against. Hack writers write hack work, and feminists can be hacks too.

>>91216449
They get rape AND dead parents

>>91216584
>a favorite for anyone that likes Lost
Nope

File: Dark Night - A True Batman Story-044.jpg (795KB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

795KB, 1988x3056px

>>91216346
>No one bounces back from rape, it destroys you forever and you become a walking husk of your previous self.
>citation needed
Paul Dini bounced back from his cultural enrichment.

File: tea.jpg (148KB, 402x416px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 402x416px

>>91216616
>writes rape stories
>becomes a living legend of comics

File: mark-millar2.jpg (18KB, 280x390px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 280x390px

>>91216683

>>91215946
Marvel must be real shit then.

>>91216584
>Grounded
Eww.

>>91216680
>rape
Nice reading between the lines, bro.

File: you barmy.jpg (81KB, 500x480px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 500x480px

>>91216683

That's not a bad sentiment, but it also implies that Miles Morales is good since ultimate Peter went out like a fucking boss. And we all know that Miles is far from cool.

File: KOLLAID 1.jpg (536KB, 1000x1525px) Image search: [Google]

536KB, 1000x1525px

>>91216726

>>91216766
Everyone likes Miles, cracks. Stop bitching.

>>91216706
Are you implying that getting the old in-out in-out against your will is significantly more traumatic than having parts of your skull crushed into powder?

>>91216683
The joke is funny, but it is unfair to say that Moore writes "rape stories". He writes stories with a lot of sex, and in some of then the sex is non-consensual.

And anyway, the Kate Leth's public doesn't read Alan Moore.

>>91216780
>another story that won't be reprinted until Moore dies
Bah.

>>91216815
Actually it isn't. You should try it, I heard it leaves your ass well polished.

>>91216844
>some
Most. Morrison was right that one time, it's hard to find a Moore story that doesn't have rape in it.

>>91216844
>it is unfair to say that Moore writes "rape stories"
B-but /co/ says...
>the Kate Leth's public doesn't read Alan Moore
Well, they should. The Bojeffries Saga includes a strong independent non-bimbo girl.

>>91216766
Not really. Passing the torch properly only sets the new legacy up for success - they still have to carry their own story. Miles had everything he needed to succeed, but he couldn't do anything good for ages after his introduction, because Bendis.

>>91216639
Dead AND raped parents

>>91216283
>Why do feminists hate characters that are rape survivors again?

One, it's just ridiculously overdone.

Two, unless you're willing or able to write a character as traumatized and broken as Jessica Jones (TV version), you're probably not going to do a good job of it.

Three, rather than being traumatic, it can easily come off as exploitative.

>>91216932
Is it ridiculously overdone? I can name far more un-raped female heroes than I name raped ones.
>Three, rather than being traumatic, it can easily come off as exploitative.
Guess that puts it on par with almost every romance novel ever written. Women love to read about rape on their terms.

>>91216932
>wo, unless you're willing or able to write a character as traumatized and broken as Jessica Jones (TV version)
So basically, you rape allergics just have bad taste.

>>91216955
It doesn't happen as much anymore, but it was definitely a problem a while ago.
I think a lot of it also has to do with fridging. People just felt like women characters were getting a bad deal that either left them raped or dead.

>>91216955
>Is it ridiculously overdone? I can name far more un-raped female heroes than I name raped ones.

When people say that it's ridiculously overdone, they're talking about fiction as a whole. Then again, for some any number other than "0" is enough to say it's ridiculously overdone. One-upmanship in lit-crit makes everything ridiculous.

>Guess that puts it on par with almost every romance novel ever written. Women love to read about rape on their terms.

It's different for bodice-rippers. Mainly because it's basically porn.

>>91217005
When? DC had an edginess problem in the mid-00s, but it applied to both sexes and they weren't going around raping all the women.

>>91216700
I wonder what his proposed "The Rape of Wonder Woman" would have been. Thank fuck someone canned that.

>>91216851
It got collected sadly is out of print.

>>91217118
22 pages. like Death of Superman, we had Rape of Wonder Woman; a twenty-two page rape scene that opened up into a gatefold at the end just like Superman did."

>>91217146
And this guy still wants to go back to DC?

>>91217210
Does he? Millarworld's so successful that he never needs to write a big two comic again.

>>91217018
>they're talking about fiction as a whole
boo-hoo, that's not relevant to comics

>>91217265
He loves Superman very much.
>Millarworld's so successful
lol

>>91217302
Very few creator-owned comic writers can boast that their numbers are competitive with Marvel's and DC's or point out that they've had several film adaptations of their works (Wanted, Kick-Ass, the Secret Service). That last point's a particular sore spot for Morrison.

>>91216041
>>91215948
This. It's like the collective fans of the Young Avengers never read before Vol 2.

>>91217394
>millardrone

>>91215849
It sounds like she has Iron Man in mind. Maybe I'm wrong.

>>91215849
So it's a critic of the Bendis Method?

>>91217850
The Bendis Method?

>>91217928
>Bendis Method
When the legacy character is such a super-talented individual that even the original feel the need to suck his balls.

>>91218220
Yeah, the Bendis Method.

>>91217664
I don't even like Millar, but his success is undeniable.
>>91217826
>>91217850
The current Marvel Method. Thor becoming an unworthy loser, replaced by a woman. Wolverine dying, replaced with his girl-clone. Banner getting cured, then killed, and replaced by an Asian guy with no Hulk-angst or mental issues whatsoever.

>>91218423
>backpedaling

>>91218692
What did I backpedal on?

>>91216924
raped BY dead parents

>>91219184
I'm sick tired of reading that kind of bs

>>91219184
Dead by Raped Parents

>>91216890
Morrison also wrote Talia raping Batman so...

>>91216887
Morrison also wrote Talia raping Batman so...

>>91217402
That's exactly it anon, Vol. 1 is way too continuity-heavy for them.

>>91217402
I garuntee that most young avengers fans now are from tumblr and only like when kid Loki ran the team, you know they probably had spaz attacks screaming "everyone's gay/bi!!!!"

>>91216639
> Born into poverty
> Minority
> Dead parents
> Abused by foster parents
> Raped

Most heroic backstory ever.

>>91221549
>heroic
Many supervillains can disagree with you.