Be pure, be Vigilant, behave!

>>91210338
>Be pure,
>be Vigilant,
>behave!

It's such a ridiculously good catchphrase

how come I could immediately tell it was from a british comic without even knowing what it was from?

>>91211458
If I had to guess, the detailed and slightly grotesque black and white comic art is a giveaway

>>91211514
yeah but americans had a similar thing with heavy metal and the like

>>91211531
Heavy Metal and 2000AD are both inspired by that one French comic Arzach is from aren't they?

>>91211445
it's anti thesys os his character

CREDO!

>>91211666
Metal Hurlant, yes at least in part but 2000ad is just one of a whole range of anthology adventure and war comics going back to the 30's

>>91211666
pat mills has a mind fucked up enough to come up with nemesis by himself

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Nemesis the Warlock is basically required reading.

>>91210338
>the champions of order and chaos are both monstrous hypocrites who casually sanction the mass murder of innocents
Really opens your third eye to the cosmic awareness.

>>91213785
The political message of Nemesis is pretty mild by Pat's standards.

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>>91210338
>Be stuck fighting some edgy alien Elric forever because its a fucking 2000AD comic
>Meanwhile some mutant turkroach steals your agenda
>ofc he takes over galaxy in no time

Being Torquemada is suffering

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Posting best boy.

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Torquemada is such a fucking awesome villain. Just straight-up no redeeming features whatsoever.

>>91215146
He is the reincarnation of Hitler after all.

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>>91215438
Among others, yeah. What an amazing cunt.
>That bit where he freaks out the first Torquemada.

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>>91211445
Sing it, Brother Anons!

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>tfw you'll never be bullied into slaughter by Vestal Vampires.

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>>91215690
Drop me a pure beat!

>>91215690
To get stupidly intellectual about the slogan it's great because in one snippet it shows Torquemada as 1. Big Tyrant, over all of humanity 2. Small Tyrant, even over his own family 3. Total Tyrant, wanting to control every part of you.

>>91215762
Later to reappear in Reqiuem, and probably other stuff Mills has done too. They could easy be El-women or female warriors in Slaine.

>>91215850
theres a group of about five El-women somepoint in the Langley slaine that do exactly that

and get fucking slaughtered for it

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>>91215828
True, true. It also shows his desire for complete domination of both inner desires ("Be pure!") and outside influences ("Be vigilant!") before capping it off with an infantilizing, very paternal threat ("Behave!"). That's what mankind is to Torquemada: children who need to repress themselves and opress everyone else.

>>91215850
Man, that bit in Requiem with the pirate women pulled exactly zero punches.

>>91215664
>Pure Cement
Good to see they don't use dirty unclean cement.

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>>91215690
Another good and pure song

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Well, /co/? Are you one of the Freckled Devils?

>>91216029
40k owes so much to Nemesis it's ridiculous, although a substantial part of it was also cross-pollination.

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>>91211445
True, true, true

>>91216043
>>91216056
Do you have the one where the new top guy gets BTFO by Torquemada

If your cosmic epic doesn't have an evil grandpa with a skeleton chair, a pregnant centaur, a sentient ship coated in molten metal, a black hole traffic system, an entire species of aliens used as fuel, Queen Victoria, a psychic alien baby, a demon dinosaur from out of time and hell, a team of apocalyptic robot warriors or a villain in a ridiculous triangle hat don't even talk to me.

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>>91216256
Sure thing!

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>>91216366

>digital TPBs at last

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I think my favorite part about Nemesis is how different the humanity is in it.

In most Sci-fi the makers shy from changing aestethics too much, but in Nemesis you could actually believe its thousands of years into future just how different clothing, symbolism and city/ship planning is.

>>91216285
*Alien queen Victoria

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>>91216382
>When you roll a natural 20 persuasion check

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>>91216400
>"Did you really think I would be so merciful?"

>>91216392
A lot of it stems from O'Neill, I think. He just goes fucking wild on every page.

>>91210338
See here brother, A true servant of the imperium of man

>>91216400
Solid pass on that speech check.

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>>91216470
>implying based Torquemada would follow some psychic mutant too-shiny-for-reincarnation faggot with gold fetish

I think you area a deviant

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>>91216470
>servant
Honestly, if left to his own devices, Torquemada would unplug the Emperor and find a way to turn his spirit into a massive energy source to fuel his pimpmobile. Torquemada looks at the Golden Throne and his first and only thought is
>"MINE!"

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>>91216432
>A lot of it stems from O'Neill, I think. He just goes fucking wild on every page.

It cost them time though.

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>>91218520
Those blasted illuminated panel borders.

How do you write a good villain?

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>>91218584
In Torquemada's case, he's great because he's 100% irreedemable but also hugely entertaining to read. Just look at >>91215699
So he never becomes obnoxious or insufferable and you're always looking forward to him getting his come-uppance. He's fun to read when he's on top and he's fun to read when he's getting crucified. And at any given point it can be driven home that, for all his goofy posturing and gloating, he's still a horrifically evil individual capable of truly monstrous deeds. And it's a brand of evil that manages to be both gruesomely serious and cartoonishly cruel just by how far he takes it.
Mind you, it's not the only way to write good villains, but it might just be one of the best.

>>91210338
I know Henry Flint did ABC Warriors etc but when did he work on Nemesis? I see loads of Anons who seem to love his style but it was always very "meh" for me. But those fucking initial Mills/O'Neill/Talbot run...absolute comics gold, one of the best series to ever run in Toothy. Shit, even the John Hicklenton stuff was brilliant. "I've come to get my tent" "Oh, fine, are you going camping?". "No, I just want my property back", klassik keks

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>>91219424
Flint co-drew with O'Neill The Final Conflict, the last long Nemesis story, in the early 00s I think.

>>91218749
Can someone post Torquemada's origin story where we find out that he went full tilt evil because he joined a Children's Crusade against aliens only to have the priest who organized said crusades to be in league with the aliens and Torquemada ended up spending like 20-30 years as an alien slave?

>>91219784
D'you know what prog/special that's in?

>>91219614
Ah, must have stopped collecting before that, J.A. You remain, as ever, a font of knowledge in all periods of Glorious Toothy/Dredd. We've "spoken" many times before, my knowledge stops at around 2003 so there's lots of big, modern, "event" arcs I've missed out on. That reminds me which big, Dredd, world-altering post-2001 arcs would you recommend? Any help would be much appreciated.
Beautiful Hicklenton page btw. Have you read his final GN that addresses his battle with, was it MS? I'd love to read that. What I've seen kind of reminds me of Tom Neely's The Wolf, in a vague sort of way...

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>>91220385
>That reminds me which big, Dredd, world-altering post-2001 arcs would you recommend?
Total War is pretty good, although it doesn't have as big an effect as others.
Way more important is Origins. Origins is fucking great. And Tour of Duty, the story sequence that followed, does a fantastic job of developing Dredd and altering the world in a different way than just blowing it up.
And of course, Day of Chaos and Trifecta, which are the best recent big epics.

I actually haven't read any Hicklenton besides his Nemesis/Dredd work. I have seen some bits of that GN though, and it does look pretty interesting.

>>91214280
>The front half of the bike is a chainsaw

WHY isn't this a thing more often????

>>91218520
>>91218540
Fusion of high and low tech is another very 40k touch. It'd be fun to see someone with the right knowledge and a good eye go through and unpick what happened first where.

>>91220595
Nice one mate, as always you deliver! Are Total War, Origins, Tour of Duty and the two most recent epics available as trades yet? That is to say, have they got around to them in the Case Files yet? I DEFINITELY want to pick up at least a couple of them if they've been collected, which to would you prioritise initially? Oh and did Dredd get his rejuve job during any of the aforementioned just out of curiosity?!

No, I can't think of any Hicklenton work besides Nemesis and Dredd. Did they ever collect the Kerrang! (are you a Britbong? Think I asked you that before, anyone Kerrang! was a long-lived U.K music mag that solely covered heavy metal and the hardest end of "hard rock", in case you weren't aware of it) Dredd comics? I know Biz did a lot of them but I'm pretty sure Hicklenton took over--Bisley really hacked out most of them, to be honest. I'm fairly sure it was Kerrang!, anyway, although it could have been Heavy Metal (not the comic magazine) but I'm not sure there even WAS a UK music mag named that.
I'm now wondering if Hicklenton did any work for the Big Two....

Could someone give a quick rundown of how Nemesis ties into other 2000ad serials?

So, is there any place I can read this?

I remeber reading a couple of the black and white collected editions, when I stayed over there as a kid (good value for a quid too). As fun as those were, they were also frustrating since they dropped you in the middle of the story and ended in a cliffhanger.

The thing that baffles me when I think about it now is the surprisingly drastic shift in the tone of reading materials for kids in Britain. While they might have taken a page from Metal Hurlant they weren't deluded enough to ignore the fact that their main audience was tweens. On hindisight I find it fascinating that kids switched from the Beano right into this.

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>>91221599
They haven't collected them in the Case Files but they do have collections of their own. Total War, Origins and Trifecta are collected in one book each, but Tour of Duty and Day of Chaos both have two (with Day having an Aftermath TPB too). They're all pretty easy to find save maybe Total War.
For priorities, if you haven't read it yet I'd definitely go with Origins. Then just pick them up in order, first Tour, then Day, then Trifecta. The rejuve job actually happened fairly recently in a megazine story that wasn't really related to either of them.

The Kerrang! Dredd strips were first reprinted in the Megazine and later collected as "Heavy Metal Dredd", pic related. And yeah, they were some weird ones. That's where I first saw Hicklenton's art, really. Bit of a shock!

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>>91221700
The two biggest connections are with ABC Warriors and Flesh. Big spoilers for all storylines though:
- Flesh: Nemesis' son, Thoth, plucks Satanus from the past and turns him into his loving pet, feeding him humans across time and generally riding him everywhere. Eventually Thoth sends Satanus back to his time period.
- ABC Warriors: it's revealed fairly early on that Mek-Quake survived the thousands of years between Earth and Termight, and his robot brain was transplanted into a special new body by the Terminators. There he had a lot of fun adventures until he went a bit crazy and destroyed Torquemada's prized war robot, then Nemesis recruited him along with the rest of the ABC Warriors, who had also survived, for a special mission: travelling through time using the wormhole inside Termight to keep it from destroying the planet and the universe with it.

>>91221805
Here, courtesy of the awesome sharing anon who uploads shittons of 2000AD: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ufdv45955l0x2/Nemesis

And yeah, once the 70s ended and Mills could drop some of the more generic strips from 2000AD, he really set about blowing kids' minds something mighty.

>>91222140
Isn't Satanus also a character in Judge Dredd? Or was that a different evil t-rex?

>>91216082
The majority of 40k is 'What the designers read in 2000AD this week'.

>>91222319
Satanus first appeared in Flesh as the black T-Rex that terrorized and destroyed the Transtime base that was herding dinos to the future to be slaughtered for food. But in Dredd's time, right before the nuclear war that destroyed the world, scientists used his recovered DNA to bring him back to life. After the bombs fell he and some pals of his broke free, and terrorized the Cursed Earth until Dredd put a stop to him.
Back in the day, Mills *really* wanted all of his strips to be interconnected. Hell, to this day, he still does.

>>91222442
Has Slaine ever fought Satanus? Bit annoyed if not.

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>>91223111
Unfortunately, that's one brainball Slaine hasn't cleaved, far as I know. He did fight an ancestral dragon once tho'.

>>91221978
Ahhh that's why I was getting a bit muddled, because the collection's called Heavy Metal Dredd! Hah I bet it was a bit of a shock! Don't'cha think a lot of those Biz strips are hacked out to fuck, like bad drawing obfuscated by smeared paint etc, basically every cardinal sin of fully-painted comics is represented in those Kerrang! strips imho! Some of them even have that "Bisley Imitator" look to them! Don't get me wrong there ARE some good ones but it was Bisley's "take the money and run" period...I have an old interview with him from Comics International when he was working on the first Dredd/Bats crossover and he's talking about being really busy but: "DC'll phone and offer me a grand for a cover, I'll be fucking swamped but fuck it, it's a thousand quid, y'know!". And that is an almost verbatim quote, it shocked me as a naive young kid that it was forever imprinted in my brain because I REALLY liked Biz then, he was riding high off the back of The Horned God and Lobo and it really fucking disillusioned me! Hah, he also tells a funny story about being filmed by (I think) BBC and how he'd paint with his brush or whatever in one hand, and a plate of curry in the other...long story short, the interview never aired, lel....

Nice one for the info and reading order recs re: the Dredd event collections, much appreciated Judge Anon! You ARE the Law!

>>91223197
Sorry to double-post, that was a fucking amazing story. Mills and Fabry (ESPECIALLY Fabry!) at their absolute best. Just brilliant.

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>>91215589
>let's make our country great again

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>>91223367
Oh god yes, Fabry is just kicking ungodly amounts of ass all over that story. It's fucking nuts. That's something I love about Slaine in general and you can see it quite clearly in the 40th Anniversary fest panel: every single Slaine artist absolutely WORSHIPS the work of the guy that came before him. So Fabry loves McMahon, Bisley loves Fabry, Langley loves Bisley, and nobody tries to ape the work of the previous guy. They all try to do their own thing, to draw their own hero harnesses, to render their own Warp Spasms. It's like a really cool jam session where everyone brings something new to the table.

>>91223313
Happy to help! And yeah, Biz sort of rrreally bought into the whole rockstar artist thing.

>>91223197
I know some people don't like the Cythron stuff but I really love everything Slaine up from the dragon story through to the conclusion of that. The interpretation of dragons is fairly original too.

>>91223653
Got to say digital Langley rarely does it for me. There are moments where what's on the page kind of blends to give you something greater but it too often doesn't, the action can be static/confusing and even the gross monster designs run together after a point. How often to get a page with the kind of manic energy of the one you posted from Langley?

I agree with you about him loving Bisley but it's several steps down from that at least IMO.

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>>91224002
The Cythron stuff gets a bit bogged down but to me does a lot for Slaine as a character, and is worth it for the art itself. Plus, this fucker right here.

>>91224080
Yeah, it took Langley a while to find out how to get some life out of his digital art. And even now he struggles with it now and then.

>>91215699
Such a reasonable fellow!

>>91224080
I can't fucking stand that shit. Actually his very early pre-digital painted stuff was pretty damn cool and not really Bisley-derived at all--I forget the name of it but he painted a really good strip about sentient dinosaurs (Dinotopia?), Judge Anon >>91223653 will probably know of which I speak, knowing his encyclopedic knowledge of all things Toothy...how's about it, J.A? I THINK it was Mills but it may have been John Smith, possibly...Langley was doing a quite cartoony, very skillfully airbrush style for it, I think we're talking about '93/'94?

Regarding Slaine, yes, the respect each artist had for their predecessors was apparent...I read a nice interview with McMahon where he was talking about his Slaine technique and how it evolved; apparently he was using tracing paper (you know the so-called "Kurtzman Method" that Spiegleman and Bagge use--successive sheets of tracing paper, each drawn in a different colour, modifying and tightening the page with each sheet, yeah?) for his layouts and noticed that he'd started to develop a use of large areas of black; instead of just being lazy and denoting black areas with an "x" like a lot of ("traditional") pencillers'll use to denote blacks to the inker, McMahon started scribbling all these areas in himself. And he got to really like this aesthetic of roughly "scribbled-in" blacks so much that he kept it for the final pages, using cheap fixed-width tech pens for his inking. Well, I thought it was interesting, anyway...! Funnily enough I was talking to a good mate of mine yesterday who's really into his comics (tho' ya might doubt that after i tell you this anecdote!), we were talking about Strontium Dog because of Steve Pugh's Flintstones work and i said i remembered his first 2000AD story with Feral and how he was KIND of like Slaine in that he had his own sort of Warp Spasms and he didn't know what I was on about! He'd never read Slaine!!! So I braved my attic and lent him some "Best of's" with Slaine...

>>91221288
Nemesis seems to be concurrent with early 40k, if I'm not mistaken.

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>>91225116
Dinosty? I've heard of it, though I haven't read it yet.
And man, I've been doing a prog slog for a while now and it was so weird to run into Steve Pugh in those early Slaines. The earliest thing I knew him for was the Preacher: Saint of Killers mini.

>>91225227
Yeah but it would be nice for someone to do a detailed unpicking of it.

>>91215792

I know it's an obvious influence but it is funny just how exactly like 40k this seems at times.

>>91225321
Trouble is the sheer volume and how even little things can be taken, such as Torquemeda's symbol being used in an edited form for Biel-Tan.

And theres now a large section of the fanbase who'll prove an obstruction as they've likley never heard of 2000AD, think 40k is original and unironically think the Imperium and the Emperor are good guys.

That last part isnt relevant but it really grinds my gears.

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>>91225227
Well, Rogue Trader came out in '87. "Terror Tube", the first Nemesis story, came out in prog 167, which was all the way in 1980. But Nemesis: Book One, which introduced the whole xenophobic Earth Empire thing, started in August '81 and became a regular fixture. And by the time Rogue Trader came out, Nemesis was well into its seventh book, I think.

>>91225466
It really fucking is.

>>91225516
It would be hard now to get a day-by-day/month-by-month account of 40k post-Rogue Trader I think. You'd need to get a hold of a lot of old White Dwarfs and you'd probably need to have either lived it or be able to talk to people who had (preferably with authority). Ideally you'd want to ask people directly about their influences but would they be forthcoming? You could get it for 2000AD as demonstrated by Judge Anon's blow-by-blow account of female Judge appearances.

It's stuff like >>91225466 though. That is clearly a fucking titan. So you know, who was doing what and thinking what and inspired by what around about this time?

>>91225687
The original Eldar Helmets are also very clearly Torquemeda influenced.

>>91225261
Yup, that's the one if I'm not mistaken. I remember it being a lot more cartoony though....oh wait no there were no warthog motorcyclists...is Dinotopia a totally different IP from a totally different company? 'Cause I remember that Toothy had a different logo at the time the strip I'm on about was running...gonna check Langley's bibliography now...cheers anyway man.

Can someone storytime or post a link?

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>>91226456
For Nemesis? You can find links here: >>91222140

>>91225775
Hah! Glad to see someone's still reading those!

>>91225687
>"Keep clear" with an arrow pointing at the head-hole

It's the little things, that British touch

>>91226530
I thought it has been really nicely done actually. IIRC you're not quite finished yet but are there any other long scope 2000AD analysis things you have in mind to do?

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>>91226705
Not really, no. I do have a couple of stories I've run into during my latest prog slog, namely Night Zero and Shadows, that I'd like to pimp out soon-ish, but nothing near as long. Maybe at some point I should do an edition covering all the Annuals/Yearbooks but for now I just gotta try to get through the progs before the year is over. Thank you very much for the interest, though!

>>91226891
Out of curiosity Judge Anon when did you first start reading 2000AD?

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>>91227426
Must've been around 15 years ago or whereabouts, though it took me a couple more years to start reading the progs on a weekly basis. Before that I just plowed through all of Dredd first. It really is the gateway drug.

>>91227735
How'd you get into it? What hooked you?

What is this warhammer 40k knockoff shit

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>>91227767
I like sci-fi and dystopias, and I've always had an eye for future cops, probably thanks to Robocop. But it annoyed me that outside of that, future cops in dystopias were just cannon fodder for the cool rebels and whatnot. Then I found out about Dredd by a handful of mentions in articles about british writers and artists, which I'd gotten into via Vertigo, and it just sounded like everything I ever wanted and more. And it was.
After that I just kept looking into 2000AD. I remember Rogue Trooper was one of the first non-Dredd series I got into, and it's still a huge favorite of mine. Same with Strontium Dog. Used to dislike Pat Mills' strips but reading the progs from the very start have given me a whole 'nother view of him.
Also, I did see the Stallone movie when I was like ten years old, but I'd all but forgotten about it by the time I realized it was a comic book too.

>>91228063
>be a kid
>go to a magazine printers/ paper mill with dad
>get bored and start rummaging through a huge pile of misprints and misaligned print outs
>find a bunch of 2000AD and but they're all the same issue just aligned wrong each time
>Previous exposure to comics was The Beano
>2000AD has fat Durham Red tiddies fighting some kind of alien that has to be put in a time loop since bullets don't kill it
>kid king arthur getting slapped to shit for playing with a magic chess board in Slaine
>a full blown terrorist attack in london in Black Light
>Judge Dredd lasering Judge Mortis into bits with a pen

holy fuck

>>91216043
>Arch-Bigot is an actual title

Kind of on the nose, but I love it.

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>>91229068
Man, your origin story kicks mine in the ass. The Mortis thing, I may be wrong but I think that was from Dead Reckoning, the one by Wagner and Staples with Death taking over a granny's body.

>>91211514
>detailed and slightly grotesque black and white comic art
this art style is 10/10 comfy

>>91229237
Yeah that was the one. Also had an Outlaw comic with him explodingtwo guys heads in very close up detail

>>91228063
I sorta wonder about how non-Brits get into 2000AD. I think I just picked it up at a newsagents sometime and got hooked.

I read this suggestion that Nemesis is the intro point to 2000AD if you're used to superhero comics which felt very *wanking motions* in the assumptions it made about cape comics and 2000AD characters, including Dredd. As someone who started with this kind of shit before looping into Vertigo, indie press and manga and ending up read capes I'm always curious about what happens in the reverse

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>>91230187
Way I see it, Vertigo really is the perfect bridge. It's like, you read Watchmen and V For Vendetta and if you liked them enough, you'll end up reading Halo Jones or Rogue Trooper sooner or later. You read Preacher, go into Ennis' Dredd, or just Dredd in general because Ennis himself loves talking about how good it is. It's like making your way down the family tree.

>>91210338
What is "have"and how do I be it?

>>91225687
Time table is wrong

Rogue Trooper actually launched in the early 80s, circa prog 220-230 IIRC

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267KB, 900x1366px

>>91230792
Nah, wasn't talking about Trooper. I was talking about Rogue Trader, the first edition of WH40K, to see how close it was to Nemesis.

>>91230911
>not knowing about the Rogue Trader, last surviving G.I. (Genetic Import/Exportman) trying to make a capitalist living with his microchip buddies Price, Wares and Val in a nightmare future where the filthy Norts have successfully transitioned to a post-scarcity society where money doesn't exist

>>91231273
Well fuck, you got me there.
Also, would Brass and Bland be Rogue Traders?

>>91231848
Damn right. True heroes unfairly struck down by the filthy anti-capitalist traitor general.