Why the hate?

>>91076012
>True to the comics
Oh yeah I just love the saga where we just hear about Kun Lun and Danny never wears the costume

>>91076067
You can say the same about DD, and Kun Lun portal only opens every 15 years.

You can hate DD (and there are some legitimate issues with his show) but he didn't get nearly as much flak.

>>91076067
Not OP but nigger what were you expecting given the other three Netflix shows? For IF to suddenly go full comic book? The shows don't embrace their backgrounds like the movies do.

>>91076012
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones understood their characters and had a clear direction for the show with better plot and characterization than Iron Fist. Sorry you're a bitter virgin who wants to watch a cartoon.

>>91076012
Why are you pretending to be an Iron Fist fan? I can tell by your post you've likely never read a single IF comic.

>his relationship with the Daughter of the Dragon
This is especially egregious. Fuck outta here with your fake nerd shit.

>>91076012 (OP) #

LUKE CAGE was garbage just like iron fist.

>Series about Marvel's greatest martial artist
>Hire actor with no training to lead
>Showrunner only gives actors 15 minutes before filming to practice choreography

Gee, I wonder why...

>>91076240
Jessica Jones only had one villain (granted Purple Man was great). The pacing was slow as shit and bogged down with obnoxious lesbians clawing each others eyes out.

And yea Luke Cage's characterization was spot on, but the plot was utter trash, with no decent villains, but that was kind of how Luke Cage was in the comics anyway.

Horrible casting choice for the lead.

That's completely it.

>>91076286
I actually used to collect Luke Cage and Iron Fist comics.

And it's what she calls herself in the show, she doesn't have an official alias in the comics so I'm cool with it.

>>91076583
What did you want? Someone Asian?

I blame Scott Buck

>>91076700
Someone with some personality. Finn Jones has zero charisma and is the most boring character on his own show.

>>91076791
Does everyone have to be an arrogant prick to have a "personality"?

He pulls of the zen monk motif fine.

>>91076791
He's one of the only characters on his show that I don't want to die.

>>91076488
Jessica Jones also had Nuke.

Sure he sucked, but he was there

>>91077006
>Does everyone have to be an arrogant prick to have a "personality"?
Its funny you say that because Danny WAS an arrogant prick in he show. He was too naive and too arrogant for too long.

>I HAVE PERFECT CONTROL OF MY EMOTIONS. FUCK YOU

>I am the Iron Fist and because I have decent Kungfu and a metal hand, I am the only one that can defeat the evil zombie ninjas

>I have to leave Kunlun for... reasons

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>>91076012
>Kun lun opens every 15 years
>But also like a few weeks after for Davos
Was this ever explained? It's the one thing that bothered me

>>91077202
Yes I know what your saying, he has hubris but he isn't a jerk to everyone, like Stark for example.

its the best Netflix show, but AoS is the best Marvel show

>>91076118
In the comic, he wears the costume, never removing the mask until Meachum dies. Throughout the first arc, we see the death of his parents and his upbringing in Kun Lun in flashbacks throughout the issues.

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Everyone complains about his personality when in reality he wasn't supposed to have charisma at all .

>>91077851
We want the current fuck-up, goofy and hot-blooded comics Danny to juxtapose with Luke.

>>91077475
>having taste this shit

How true is the show to the comics?
Is heaven/kun kun a thing?
Did Danny really abandon his post? Are they pissed about it?

>>91076240
That's because Danny Rand's personality is actually portrayed completely differently depending on who he's starring with in the comic. He has no set character

>>91076012
>Jessica Jones and Luke Cage were both WAY too reliant on sex in lieu of good story telling,

Yeah the two whole sex scenes in Jessica Jones and the one in Luke Cage. So "reliant" on sex imirite? OMG it's like a porno!

>Why does Iron Fist get bad reviews when Luke Cage and Jessica Jones got great reviews

Daredevil - discusses social implication of crime and vigilantism on society

Jessica Jones - Full of feminist references. Talks about rape, ptsd and toxic masculinity.

Luke Cage - Discusses social problems relating to the African American community, like JJ also talks about toxic masculinity but relating to black men.

Iron Fist - ????????????

>>91076012
>People say there's no action when there are on average 2-3 fight scenes per episode.
No, you mongoloid fuck, people say the actions scenes SUCK!

>>91076012
sjw butthurt
it was as good or as bad as the others

>>91078710
Iron fist was about child abuse

>>91078710
>>>/pol/ opinions

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>>91076012
>true to the comics
They couldn't even get his motivation for leaving K'un L'un right.

>>91076012
Because it's boring as hell for one thing. Most episodes are just board meetings.

The fight choreography is shit. There is no cool action scenes in the mystical king fu show.

Danny is boring as hell with no charisma or humor (I blame the writing tho, not the actor).

The dialogue is terrible.

Overall, it's just a poorly made show (by the guy responsible for ruining Dexter).

>>91078710
I haven't finished Iron Fist yet, but so far I would say the opioid epidemic and something about raising children in abusive situations.

>>91078710
The levels of stress faced by corporate moguls and their struggles with substance abuse.

Did anyone read the first issue of the Brisson book this week? I hope it's only in service to the plot idea of intro'ing the character in a bit of a pickle emotionally, but the characterization of Danny as disconnected and boozing really triggered me. Hope it gets better.

In a show that sells itself on martial arts/artists, it's got lame ass martial arts/artists. Jessica Jones at least had a pretty good villain, Luke Cage at least has a pretty good lead. Iron Fist has jack shit.

>>91077266

It opens every 15 years and stays open for an unspecified amount of time during which the Iron Fist is meant to guard the entrance.

Danny ran off. Afer they saw he was missing they sent Davos. Danny came back at the end of the series and in his absence the Hand had attacked it and Kun Lun, which should have been there as the entrance was still open, was missing.

>>91076488
>>91077159

As mentioned, Sgt. Simpson/Nuke was also a villain. The pacing was slightly slow in parts, but it highlighted the PI aspects of JJ.

>>91078486
This. The sex was virtually a side note, it existed in JJ to emphasize Jessica's brash nature the first time, and finding a connection with someone the second. In Luke Cage, it was just to set up the interactions between himself and Misty.

>>91078710
I'd say Daredevil focused slightly more on the limits of the law and the morality of operating outside it, but the rest of that's pretty dead-on.

>>91078981
>>91079131
Child abuse was tangential to the story. Those two could have been raised normally, and you could have crafted a similar story. Hell, it might have been better - Daddy was a little too transparently a monster. Same with the drug addiction angle - Ward could've still been a prick without it. Even if you consider them central themes - which is hard, since neither one really affected the TITLE CHARACTER, the series didn't do much to explore them. The child abuse was more a reason for Ward and Joy to be who they were, not something they really tried to handle or move past.

Jessica Jones got great reviews because it had one of the most deeply flawed female protagonists combined with one of the most relatable explorations of PTSD, rape, and feminism on TV - not something anyone expected from a superhero show. Similarly, Luke Cage was a great view into black culture, music, movies, and Harlem. Daredevil was a little more straightforward, but still had quality actors and excellent moments dealing with the dehumanization of criminals by society. (Also, some of the best choreographed fight scenes in a TV show in the last few years. The hallway and stairwell fights were so good, you know precisely what I'm talking about with four words.)

Iron Fist just didn't have anything that reached those heights. It wasn't BAD, but it's being compared to some of the best superhero shows ever.

>>91076488
>granted Purple Man was great
Hahahaha. No.
>>91079876
>deeply flawed female protagonists combined with one of the most relatable explorations of PTSD, rape, and feminism
You mean, a walking cliche rape victim and absolutely mediocre "exploration"? Really great show, wow.

>>91079876
TLDR: Luke Cage and Jessica Jones get points for appealing to SJWs, when in reality all three shows are on a roughly equal playing field.

>>91078710
Corporate greed and the exploitation of sick people for profit.

All of the shows are absolute garbage except Daredevil. I'm mad he has to be dragged down by them for Defenders, which is no doubt going to be trash with all of the characters they have to juggle in just 8 episodes.

>>91080343
I agree that Dare Devil is the best, especially season 2.

>>91080369
Season 1 is better than season 2 as a whole, but the Punisher stuff was great. I found Jessica Jones nigh unwatchable - David Tennant carried that show and Jessica was the most unlikable main character I think I've ever come across. Luke Cage was mostly just boring, Luke Cage himself was the least interesting person in the show and his actor wasn't that great.

>>91080388
Punisher in Daredevil portrayed PTSD better than Jessica Jones did.

(deleted post - I missed a character because of a crappy keyboard)

>>91080141
>You mean, a walking cliche rape victim and absolutely mediocre "exploration"? Really great show, wow.

How was she a 'walking cliche'? Why was it 'absolutely mediocre'? And even if you grant those (which I don't), was ANYBODY expecting a superhero show to tackle those issues at all, much less competently? Hell, a recurring complaint about the big two publishers is that their handling of women in comics is frequently less than stellar.

>>91080244
Honestly, I usually hear "SJW" as code for "I didn't wanna think about this". Jessica Jones wasn't advocating the castration of men, Luke Cage wasn't calling for reparations or the overthrow of white men in power. You can have stories about people other than white guys without it going into the deep end, "you need to accept my otherkin status/fictive headmate", "check your human privilege" tumblrina zone.

>>91080388
I'm not saying the show was pro-SJW (not extensively anyway). I'm just saying it benefited a lot from the liberal faggots who make up 90% of critics these days.

And I'm saying those same liberal faggots hate Danny because he's white, it's counter racism.

And hey, I love Luke Cage, I want him and Iron Fist to have a show together like in the comics. I'm just afraid that might be ruined by a bunch of snowflakes looking to vent.

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>>91080244

This. Jessica Jones got props for being feminist, and Luke Cage for being "Unapologetically Black". Which is kinda funny since Luke actually takes a fairly moderate stance to racial politics.

While Iron Fist does talk about corporate greed, it's largely window dressing and is forgotten in the second half. Plus SJWs had a hate-boner for the show due to its very concept. The number of reviews that mention Danny's race outpace those that don't.

However that isn't to say that Iron Fist is some underrated gem. It has a lot of flaws mainly with how Danny Rand, despite being a warrior-monk, acts like an immature idiot. Also the fight scenes aren't up too snuff.

>>91080343
>>91080411
These, although Cottonmouth was one saving grace of Luke Cage. It's annoying that a shitty villain like Kilgrave gets dickrided everywhere, but a genuinely good one like Cottonmouth is mostly forgotten about after the show is over.

>>91080463
Yes, I will concede that my expectations for choreography and special effects may have been lowered by some of the other Netflix shows, they often resort to petty camera tricks to keep the budget low.

>>91080411
>Punisher in Daredevil portrayed PTSD better than Jessica Jones did.

Eh... no. Punisher didn't have PTSD - in fact, I seem to recall he explicitly rejects that defense at one point. They floated the "experiences the event constantly every single day" bit, but they went into a lot less detail on it because, end of the day, Punisher is a straight revenge fantasy, and his characterization in Daredevil didn't really change much about that. Frank wasn't struggling to cope, he just goes into soldier mode targeting criminals instead of enemy combatants.

>>91080439
I'm not saying the show was pro-SJW (not extensively anyway). I'm just saying it benefited a lot from the liberal faggots who make up 90% of critics these days.

"Liberal faggots"? Come on.

Yes, there were some people who complained about Danny being white. They were a small minority most people ignored because Danny Rant WAS white. Yes, there was some cultural appropriation, but Iron Fist was a product of the times. The bigger problem with Iron Fist was that it was mediocre, with not so great fight choreography - which kind of sucks for a Kung Fu series.

>>91080467
Why was Kilgrave shitty? And while I didn't think Cottonmouth was a bad villain, but I don't think he rose to 'genuinely good'. He was serviceable, but ultimately an under-boss who existed to get bumped off to further Mariah and Diamondback's stories.

>>91080556
How many times do I have to explain that, you fucking namefag?
Maybe because he's an idiotic, obnoxious manchild piece of garbage with zero charisma, isn't even menacing in the least and absolutely cringeworthy in every way including dialogue and motivation?
>inb4 b-but he was supposed to suck
If it's supposed to be shit, then it's shit.
Doesn't make him a good villain.

And yes, Cottonmouth was thousand times better than that piece of shit.

>>91080597
>How many times do I have to explain that, you fucking namefag?

Well, you hadn't at all so far, so...

>Maybe because he's an idiotic, obnoxious manchild piece of garbage with zero charisma, isn't even menacing in the least and absolutely cringeworthy in every way including dialogue and motivation?

Idiotic? He takes every opportunity to cover his tracks, compensate for the weaknesses of his power, and sets up intricate revenge plots. Obnoxious manchild? He had some childish aspects, which was part of the character - the entire concept was that he was someone that literally nobody could say no to since he was 10. Zero charisma? He managed to talk his way out of a locked cell without powers, and as the actor, managed to get most people to at least partially sympathize with a very disturbing rapist. As to not menacing - seriously? He commands multiple people to kill themselves, put guns to their own heads, lines up rows of hanging victims, calls in threats, stalks his victims...

Yeah, dude, he was a good villain. You may not personally have liked him, but he was well-developed, portrayed by a serious talent, and uniquely drove the story. Cottonmouth, by comparison, could have been "Cornell" or "Random Gang Boss X" for all of Luke Cage without making a difference. He was a generic mid-level crime boss who got slightly more characterization than most, and that mostly to flesh out Mariah's story at the same time. He wasn't bad, by any means, but you're comparing one guy from a lineup of half a dozen villains to the guy who was the overwhelming driving force behind the entirety of Jessica Jones.

>it's true to the comics
That's horse shit

>>91079150

People liked to complain about Kaare Andrews' Iron Fist being off course, but when I read the Brisson's book, I barely even recognized the character.

>>91080683
>constantly falls for the most obvious traps imaginable
>not idiotic
>He takes every opportunity to cover his tracks
Such as appearing at the police station leaving everyone there with vivid memories of him
>b-but he deleted the footage
Doesn't fucking matter, the masquerade is broken.
>intricate
I know you're a retard, but there is nothing "intricate" about anything he's ever done.

>He managed to talk his way out of a locked cell
Thanks for reminding about that piece of absolutely retarded writing that only proves how badly-written that piece of shit show is, but you once again are proving to be an idiot. He still has zero charisma. I bet if the boring actor who played Luke Cage talked people out of something you'd too say he has charisma, because you're a retard.
>which was part of the character
A very shitty character because there's nothing interesting about an idiot manchild.
>managed to get most people to at least partially sympathize with a very disturbing rapist.
You mean, absolutely stupid people because he was just a cartoonishly evil moron. Also
>disturbing
You fucking wish.
>He commands multiple people to kill themselves, put guns to their own heads, lines up rows of hanging victims, calls in threats, stalks his victims...
Ahh. Here comes my favourite argument of retarded JJ-fags.
>M-MUH BODYCOUNT MEANS HE'S MENACING
yadda yadda Freddy Krueger, yadda yadda
I'm sick and tired of this dance at this point, you fucking retard. "Being menacing" is not something you achieve by making your villain as reprehensible as possible.
>he was a good villain
No, you're just a tasteless idiot as expected of a namefag
>well-developed
Please never be a writer.
>WAHH NO ONE CAN SAY NO TO HIM AND NOW HE'S AN ASSHOLE
What deep development. Wow. Definitely not a shit character like Mason Verger.
> portrayed by a serious talent,
Jesus Christ. Stop sucking off a mediocre actor.
>uniquely drove the story
You mean, aped Hannibal but much worse?

>>91080857

You get that "you're a retard" repeated over and over isn't exactly a strong argument, right?

>>91080903
Good job ignoring everything else I've said, you retard.
As expected of a JJ-fag AND a namefag.

>>91080917

Yeah, that happens when you call someone a retard over and over, they tend to ignore the rest of your argument.

>>91080985
>you hurt my feefees
As expected.

>>91081043

Yes. It's totally that you, random internet stranger, have hurt my feefees, and not that you declared yourself a troll not worth arguing with. Well done, you've wounded me to my core.

>>91081111
>he's mean to me on the internet and disagrees with me, must be a troll
What a drama queen.

Oh, and your villain is still shit. Get better taste if you think otherwise.

>>91076488
Cottonmouth was fucking great and diamondback was the most comic bookish villian in all the shows.

>>91076012
For a show about kung fu, WHERE ALL DA KUNG FU?

>>91076012

it was shitty?

>>91076012
Because JJ and Luke Cage, while they had major problems, also had enjoyable aspects.

Iron Fist had literally no redeeming qualities.

>>91076012
If it had been the guy in the picture you posted everyone would have loved it.

Instead we got a whiny bratty child.

Clearly the monks didn't beat him enough.

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>>91076012
>white lead
>asian female fling
>""""""cultural"""""" appropriation
>hero is not well known for normies so you won't look unhip if you shit on it

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>>91078710

>>91081410
Sadly, this. The real tragedy is that Iron Fist is a much better character than those two shitters and his world has much more potential for interesting stories.

>>91076012
Imo the only decent netflis show was DD.
Don won waste time describing why they were bad, honestly.
Just stop polluting the board with this, opinions are settled.

>>91081410
>Iron Fist had literally no redeeming qualities.

That's utter bullshit. Iron Fist had by far the strongest supporting cast of any Marvel Netflix shows. Ward and Harold alone made the show 10 times more intersting than Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. I agree that Finn was bad casting, but let's be honest here, so was the casting for Luke and JJ. The only main actors they got right are Punisher and Daredevil.

>>91078710
>Daredevil
>is a standard action show but with a silly costume
Don't make it deeper than it is.
Also, note that I'm not saying it's a bad show, but it's not much different from any other superhero show.

>>91082160
Actually, the reason why DD got so much praise from fans and critics was BECAUSE it was different to any other superhero show up to that point. It was the first superhero show ever made that had actual production values, quality cinematography, fight choreography and writing.

>>91082216
I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about the show's "depth". It doesn't really tackle anything more than any crime show that isn't a police procedural. Again, that's not a bad thing.

Also, one contributing factor to praise is that DD's competition is fucking Arrow, possibly one of the worst shows I have ever seen even in its "good" seasons.

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I don't know why you guys are complaining about the corporate scenes so much.

From what I experienced, every scene without Danny, Colleen or Claire in it was way better.

It's fighting coreography sucks

>>91076012
In a word, social justice. Jessica Jones and Luke Cage get by on being empowered minorities. Iron Fist is a white dude that people who've never read the comic think should be Asian.

>>91081150
Diamondback is an example of why comic books don't translate well to live action. I feel like his whole character was just created so the show could piss off people constantly complaining how it's not comicy enough

if you like jessica jones (the character) or diamondback, but hate ironfist, you're full of shit

Good seasons of Netflix Marvel: JJ, LC, DD S1, DD S2 Punisher parts

Bad seasons of Netflix Marvel: IF, DD S2 Hand parts

Seasons of Netflix Marvel where the Hand are not the main villain: JJ, LC, DD S1, DD S2 Punisher parts

Seasons of Netflix Marvel where the Hand is the villain: IF, DD S2 Hand parts

Golly, I can't seem to find a pattern

Iron Fist is the "mortal enemy" of the Hand and he did not fight ONE single freaking ninja.
Other than that what other's said.

I give it a B. At least Ward was entertaining.

>>91082785
What about hating all three but be extra disappointed with Iron Fist because he's actually a good character ruined by a terrible actor and a terrible script?

>>91076012
First of all, to me Iron Fist is better than JJ or Cage,the serie have lots of weak points, but still, if you divide the serie in 3 parts, the introduction od Danny, the Company thing and the hand, the only "well done" to me is the company part, wich is the most borring, even if they are the final boss of the season, the introduction of Danny is weak, you don't see the reasons why the come back to NY till chapter 10, I see a hawk and all that stuff , and is bad, should be solved in chapter 2-3. The company is the best part, but is borring for a cape serie, and the hand at least to me is bad portrayed. Actors, i really hate Rosario Dawson in the serie, is just like they need another Karen Page, but they have Collen in that role, I'm disapointed of the introduction of Davos wich should be early and their parts are dull, and Finn is a nonsense, most of the times he seems a hippie instead of a monk warrior, I'm ok with they keeping the original white character but the script is bad. Finally the figth scenes, bad portrayed because they don't had time to train the actors, and the directors were bad, should be like 2 docens of asians martial arts directors to do Iron Fist, they had do that for decades in Japan, just hire them.

>>91080463
>Which is kinda funny since Luke actually takes a fairly moderate stance to racial politics.
A majority of black people take a fairly moderate stance to racial politics. You would know this if you interacted with them.

>>91076067
I mean we did SEE the costume(in the video of the 40s Iron Fist). It just wasn't Danny wearing it. Maybe they can have Danny adopt it later.

>>91083650
Other than his close friends who has seen him use the fist? Being a CEO he would need an alias to hero around. Perfect reason for a mask.

>>91076012
>Show about guy trained from childhood to become a mystical ninja by mystic ninjas
>Has no self-discipline or control
>Has trouble with no-name Hand peons
>Shit fight choreography
On top of that, Danny Rand's actor was weak. The show was carried by it's supporting characters and I only got through it because Joy and Colleen were hot.

I think the writing of the show is just fine, but the characterisation of Danny Rand is all over the place. Sometimes he's confident of his purpose and then ten minutes later he's doubting himself and raging like a manchild. I'm on Episode 12 right now and Joy is experiencing a fluky character arc and I'm not sure how it'll go just yet. The faux-Kung-Fu shit is played pretty straight and I like the show a lot more for it rather than everyone saying "lol chi what".

The fight Choreography is better than I'd been led to believe, sometimes the IF seems to know how to fight and other times it's obviously edited around. I'm loving Harold though. Faramir's a cool dude

The argument made in Episode 12 for not killing is much better than "if we kill we're no better than the killer", I will give the show that much.

>>91084846
It's a shame because the first 2 or 3 episodes made Danny out to be a mystical kung fu master no one could even lay a hand on, including a highly skilled fighter like Colleen. Then suddenly he became a mediocre brawler who trades hits with random bodyguards and Hand goons.

>>91086904
What, "it will corrupt your chi and you will never be the Iron Fist you were meant to be"? That was fucking stupid considering earlier during that little tournament thingy, they established that the Iron Fist was trained to kill the Hand and NOT show mercy and Danny showing mercy was a disappointment to his master.

>>91087078
More "You're not a Warrior and not just another Iron Fist beating up Chinese People in the mountains".

>>91076488
Jessica Jones was fine for like the first 4 episodes. Then they failed to switch to another villan or plot, and it became a season long shitty crawler.

>>91079088
I think this is somewhere to the point.
What the show wants(Light Wuxia), and what it accomplishes is entirely different things.
It really doesn't understand there is a line between Normal Martial Arts, The Iron Fist, and weaker Chi fueled Super Martial Arts. Like, every single scene where they have Danny climb anything, thats a failure.

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>>91077475
Nigger you best be joking