Captain Marvel

>>91074551
I actually wonder if this Cap could work out in Marvel.

He would finally have to drop the weird 1950 Donna Reed styling of the Fawcett setting and things would be made more edgy and angsty.

But an actual upbeat inspirational hero in 616 would be an interesting one.

>>91074551

Who hates him more? Marvel or Alan Moore?

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>>91075513
Marvel.

>>91075421
Marvel can't even do the heroes they have well. I'd hate to see Billy doing some edgy murder.

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>>91074551
Marvel started using the name a decade or so after DC fucked Fawcett out of existence in 1953. DC acquired the rights to Fawcett's IP five years after that - and then tried unsuccessfully to lawyer the name back. Marvel's a lot bigger than Fawcett though and they couldn't bully their way around this time.

Don't think of it as Marvel stealing the title; think of it more as DC getting a taste of their own douchebag medicine.

That old Captain Marvel died along the fun and friendly Fawcett comics in the 50s. We shouldn't let DC drag that corpse around for their own gain just on sheer principle. Should never reward murderers, just kick them in the nuts repeatedly - and that's what Marvel has been doing since DC tried to sue for the title rights back.

<- pic related: Iron-Man representing DC in this affair.

>>91075421
>>91075631

His whole thing could be secretly he is some 14 year old faking it using the wisdom of Solomon. When he is human that pressure gets to him, but he does not worry when he is Marvel.

Sort of how Spiderman agonizes over the responsibility of being a hero, Marvel agonizes over the responsibility of being the king of heroes

>>91076211
Fucking this. If you think it's Marvel's fault then I question whether you are truly a fan of the character in the first place.

>>91076299
pretty sure even marvel tried to replicate that with rick jones and mar-vell switching plaqces.

>>91076211
Isn't it because of DC shenanigans that we have a big 2 company thing happening anyway?

They kept buying out every other comic company and absorbing their heroes into the greater DCU

>>91076299
Actually he's much younger than 14 usually, the new52 version is around 15 but he's a douchebag so he can fuck off.

>>91076361
No, apart from Fawcett the other companies were already dead.

Even Fawcett was on the decline since nothing apart from the Marvel family was selling.

>>91076365
He's been 14+ since the 90s. New 52 didn't start that.

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>>91076393
Fawcett's Captain Marvel was the biggest superhero around back then though, outselling everything, including Superman - which is the real reason DC fucked them over.

They sued Fawcett over Captain Marvel being too close to Superman's powerset. Which is a joke given that Supes is the original poster child for powercreep (from merely jumping to flying, etc.) and Billy's powers were magic-based to begin with. At worst you could have said that Billy was inspired by Superman, but to claim copyright and shut Fawcett down by saying he was a direct copy and thus stealing sales from Supes's comics was a joke.

>>91076361
At least DC absorbs the characters they buy.
When Marvel bought out Malibu, they just used their printers and have been sitting on the characters ever since.

I don't think it's a great loss, but it still kinda blows.

>>91076211
>hurr DC is bad
Fawcett straight up stole stories from Superman books, and at the time it was clear that they were ripping off the concept of Superman.

>>91076211
this is clever.

>>91075421
Gross

>>91076211

>identifying this hard with the subsidiary of a corporate comglomerate

Stop pretending you actually give a shit about legal matters that happened before you were born. That is the shallowest, nonsense excuse ever.

>>91076894
Well claiming DC still have the rights to the Captain Marvel title is also an example of that.

>>91076688
Like what? DC stole from them while making Lex and Supergirl.

>>91076943

No is claiming that. The topic was started because someone was pointing out that Marvel is hamstringing a character for their numerous attempts at cheap, unnecessary mascots.

I personally don't give a shit about Billy that much. He could be renamed to something like Captain Miracle and be the same character and do fine.

I'm just bandwagoning because of how retarded the Captain Brand Name franchise is.

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>>91075513
Does Moore really hate him? I just thought Miracleman was him just sprucing up a forgotten knockoff of Captain Marvel in his usual edgelord fashion.

>>91076601
Hell, wasn't Marvel the first superhero to fly?

>>91077443

Namor was the first to fly.

Superman didn't fly because of Marvel, he flew because of his cartoons.

>>91077443
>Hell, wasn't Marvel the first superhero to fly?

He predates Human Torch and Namor?

>>91077521
Ah, shows me what I know.

>>91077443
>Does Moore really hate him?

Moore doesn't. >>91075513 is kind of an idiot because he assumes Moore writing Twilight of the Superheroes pitch and Miracleman means Moore completely hates the character.

Why do Shazam fans demand that the character remain totally unchanged from the 50's era Archie style anyway? Every other hero has evolved with the times but for some reason Captain Marvel is required to remain the exact same as he was when first published.

>>91077591
Oh shit, totally forgot that Moore had that whole "Billy Batson experiments with BDSM with prostitute who is really Martian Manhunter" shit in Twilight of the Superheroes.

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>>91075421
>>91076299
How about fuck your edgy Marvelfag bullshit

You obviously do not get the character, the concept, the storyline, and well everything to the point of surprising the fuck out of me for not calling him Shazam as if that were his real name.

Either way fuck you for being the most disgusting casualfag fuckwit I have seen spew out the most inane stupid assholish shit in a very long time. Kill yourself

>>91077616

Innocence is a pretty big part of the character. I don't the art style should always remain the same, I think that tends to be done because the character's heyday was in the golden age, but I can see why people might dig a fantasy of a superhero driven literally by an inner child, and as time goes on, having him not give into the same cynicism that every other character eventually does allows him to stand out some.

>>91077649
And engaging in incest with Mary Marvel and producing kids from that relationship.

>>91077616
Do they though? Most people seem to like shipping him with Stargirl.

>>91076688
Prove it fuckface

Fawcett was kicking DCs ass up and down the block for years and the asshurt bitches there took them to court on a trumped up charge instead of actually making an attempt to write something someone would want to read. They only won by having the money to hold everything up in court for a few years. Then they got their idiot "revenge" on the character by refusing to use him for decades. And forcing Cap to be a third stringer only seen in the background of big events.

>>91077616
>Why do Shazam fans
right here, this is where I stopped reading

kill yourself Marvelfag

>>91077779

>Fawcett was kicking their ass

>DC had more money

hmmm...something isn't adding up with this revisionist history, friendo

>>91077748
that's just because /co is secretly pedo and being 14 and able to fuck other 14 year olds with a 35 year old body and all the knowledge of the kama sutra in your head is the greatest fantasy

>>91074551
Pretty sure the higher ups at DC just see him as "Red Superman" so they never really care too much about the character or bother having him in any real spotlight.

Marvel managed to actually make a flagship charter out of the name back in the 70's but then they killed him off and never bothered much with it ever again until very recently with their trying really hard to make someone like Carol.

>>91077748
It's either Stargirl or some "way to go son" stuff that's just there as a joke.

>>91077875
>Marvel managed to actually make a flagship charter out of the name back in the 70's


literally the only interesting thing Mar-Vell ever did was die of cancer

>>91077909
He was nice as the primary protagonist to Thanos

They have never made anyone else fill that roll well. With Warlock, Star Lord, Drax, Genis,

>>91077860
Are you just a dense cunt? The Captain Marvel title was the biggest selling single issue comic of the time, but it was Fawcett's (a small family owned company) only real property. DC was a larger conglomerate even back then; selling far more titles per month and had been doing so for just over a decade longer. They deliberately put Fawcett out of business using Billy's alleged similarities to the lesser-selling Superman.

>>91077987
>DC was a larger conglomerate even back then; selling far more titles per month and had been doing so for just over a decade longer.

So, even by your own admission, Fawcett wasn't kicking their ass.

>They deliberately put Fawcett out of business

They pursued a legal matter they saw in their interest. Fawcett was a little bitch and couldn't take the heat.

>>91075421
I'd imagine they'd just do his character by turning his personality into a male version of Kamala or something and they'd also make him bisexual or some shit

>>91074551
DC screwed him over, and Stan Lee realized "Hey, we're MARVEL Comics, and the copyright for Captain MARVEL just ran out. Let's fucking copyright that ourselves while we can."

Remember, if DC didn't sue Fawcett into the ground, Marvel never could've done it.

>>91077026

Lex is as much a rip off of Sivana as Sivana is a rip off of Ultra-Humanite, who in his first appearances was a bald mad-scientist, and showed up a year before Sivana.

>>91077779
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/191/594/91314/

>he found that, in publishing the exploits of "Captain Marvel" in "Whiz Comics" and its other magazines, "Fawcett" copied from "strips" — a "strip" consists of a series of pictures, carrying legends — which had appeared in "Action Comics," and had done so with the degree of detail which in Detective Comics v. Bruns Publications, 2 Cir., 111 F.2d 432, we found to infringe earlier copyrights of "Superman" by another plagiarist. The evidence does much more than show that this finding was not "clearly erroneous"; it leaves no possible doubt that the copying was deliberate; indeed it takes scarcely more than a glance at corresponding "strips" of "Superman" and "Captain Marvel" to assure the observer that the plagiarism was deliberate and unabashed. Whether "Fawcett" copied only from "Action Comics" in the end makes no difference, as will appear; but we shall assumearguendothat at times it also made use of "Detective's" other magazine, "Superman."

>>91077649

He was also getting cuckolded by Billy Jr.

>>91077616
>Shazam fans

I think most people are fans of Captain Marvel, not the wizard Shazam.

>>91074551
>They stole his name

As you know, because we've had this thread so many times:

When Marvel Comics became Marvel Comics in the early 1960s there was no Captain Marvel and hadn't been for a decade, because National Comics (who became DC Comics) had sued Fawcett Comics out of business in 1953 and completely destroyed the brand and the waning audience the character had at that time. But Fawcett still owned Captain Marvel because they were still a publisher - they just didn't bother with the trademark because they'd stopped doing comic books thanks to DC.

In 1967, Marvel Comics was a well-established brand in its own right and someone had the idea of resurrecting the Captain Marvel name for a new character with fairly Superman-ish powers of flight, strength, and being a fuckin cool alien who swaps places with a human boy (Rick Jones, friend of the Hulk).

They were able to do this because nobody owned the name and there was no question of Fawcett Comics ever publishing again (since it was well know that National/DC would sue them for breaking the terms of the earlier settlement).

In 1972, DC Comics finally realized they could lease the Fawcett back-catalog (the whole thing, not just CM) for reprint and to exploit the other rights. In 1977, they finally bought the Fawcett back catalog, but by then were forced to concede that they had no claim to the Captain Marvel trademark (which is why the three shows they made featuring the character all used the SHAZAM! name instead).

Then you came along, pretending to be like a hundred years old at this point, again and again and again like anybody seriously gives a shit. His name is Shazam and has been for 40 years, deal with it.

tl;dr they're not making the Shazam movie at all because the Rock is Too Old and Too Busy Making Shitty Fast and Furious Sequels to work on it, but they signed him so they're stuck with him unless they want to Billy Dee Williams Two Face their way out of it

Shazam

>>91077616
because literally everything that DC has done with him since they bought him to spite Marvel has been fucking garbage

he's the DCEU mark 1

>>91077616

Because comic fans are autistic about status quo changes. Look at how people bitched and whined about Archie going "more modern" with Waid's reboot, or CW's Riverdale.

>>91074551
They hate him for the same reason DC hates him. Back in the day he was THE superhero selling more than even Superman.

They wanted to cripple him and prevent him from becoming competitive.

>>91076601
Reminder DC didn't win the case. They just bled a dying Fawcett with legal fees to the point they had to sell him.

They jewed Fawcett to death.

>>91078460
>this guy with a cape is flying
>this guy with a cape is also flying

Show me a story th stole outright.

Lex was a clone of Sivana. Ultra humanite was just one of a million mad scientists that floated around pulps. Sivana was special in his obsession to get Captain Marvel and his ability to whip up anything with science magic.

Supergirl was a rip off of Marvy Marvel. Krypto and the super pets were a rip off of Talking Tawny and Hoppy the Marvel Bunny.

The cool Superman mythos stuff like Supergirl, different colors of kryptonite, kandor, bizzaro. Brainiac, were created by Otto Binder who was bought off from Fawcett where he wrote the best Captain Marvel stories by DC in the hopes of stealing Captain Marvels magic. When that didn't work they sued.

>>91079127
Face it, the court was right and you lost.

>>91079127
Learn to read.

>>91077779
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/191/594/91314/

>he found that, in publishing the exploits of "Captain Marvel" in "Whiz Comics" and its other magazines, "Fawcett" copied from "strips" — a "strip" consists of a series of pictures, carrying legends — which had appeared in "Action Comics," and had done so with the degree of detail which in Detective Comics v. Bruns Publications, 2 Cir., 111 F.2d 432, we found to infringe earlier copyrights of "Superman" by another plagiarist. The evidence does much more than show that this finding was not "clearly erroneous"; it leaves no possible doubt that the copying was deliberate; indeed it takes scarcely more than a glance at corresponding "strips" of "Superman" and "Captain Marvel" to assure the observer that the plagiarism was deliberate and unabashed. Whether "Fawcett" copied only from "Action Comics" in the end makes no difference, as will appear; but we shall assumearguendothat at times it also made use of "Detective's" other magazine, "Superman."

They plagerized panels.

>>91079269
Show me the panels. Otherwise its "they're in the same pose" bullshit.

Remember they did the same thing to original Wonder Man years before.

And interestingly Batman never got canned for ripping off entire scripts from The Shadow. Morality becomes very flexible when you have a lot of money.

>>91079230
>court was right

The judge decided in favor of Fawcett because they abandoned their copyright on Superman.

Here's a website showing what the court claimed was plagiarism: It's literally same pose bullshit. No Captain Marvel stories were rip offs of Superman stories and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

>>91079558
http://www.brittonpayne.com/Marvel/SupermanShazam.html

>Muh plagiarized panels
>Totally the same characters
>I-It's not like Captain Marvel was the more creative and appealing book...it was just a copy of Superman!

I see DC shills are in full defense mode.

>>91079653
They are on high alert since the JLA trailer yesterday. They now assume Marvel will admit defeat and stop existing at any minute now. So they are watching and waiting...

>>91077860
>Fawcett was a small company
>DC was backed by fucking WB

>>91079471
It has been shown in a court of law. Your opinion is irrelevant.

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>>91079471
>Batman never got canned for ripping off entire scripts from The Shadow.
not only scripts
entire panels

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>>91079838
>they won the lawsuit that means they are right

So what is stopping DC from taking Marvel to court over Hyperion, Sentry, Thor, and Gladiator and shutting that shitshow of a company down once and for all?

>>91079838
So was OJ's "innocence".

Captain Marvel got jewed.

>>91079870
They didn't even win. They lost because they couldn't prove a copyright on Superman so Fawcett "got off on a technicality".

Fawcett was forced to settle because they didn't have enough money to fight the appeal.

The Marvel Family books sold better than DC's Superman, but DC had a lot of other books that sold well and waited until Fawcett was having business difficulties to sue.

>>91079883
The fact that Marvel has enough money to fight back, especially with the Mouse.

And DC knows better than to play the heel again. With social media everyone will know instantly how horseshit their claims are if they try to get legal bux from so say Irredeemable or The Boys for using not-Supermen.


It's really incredible. Guys like Sentry and Hyperion have way more in common with Superman than Captain Marvel ever did and yet they won't get sued because they're owned by a company that would curbstomp DC in a suit and them counter sue them for damages.

>>91079870
It's a damn shame California and the LAPD decided to torture and terrorize this poor innocent man for so long instead of actually going after the actual murderer that killed two people they clearly did not know or were related to, left a weapon in OJ's house, and left a very small bloody glove on his dashboard, and then coerced him to contemplate suicide in the back of a Bronco on the LA freeway.

Why has no one ever bothered going after this criminal mastermind? Why were they constantly targeting OJ instead?

>>91079852
>Green

>>91079883
they can countersue for Namor and Aquaman, Lobo and Wolverine, or the New Gods
IE suing for similar heroes is useless

>>91079653
>>91079680
>D*sney interns looking to shift attention while they forum slide
Be a little less obvious, boys. This might work on /tv/ but it's a different game here.

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>>91079931
And he is still on the loose anon!

They never caught this master murderer at all!!!!!

>>91074551
What's up with Moore's weird BillyxMary fetish?
Is it literally "muh Greek Gods" or is it he just a wincest fan?

>>91081865
Probably the former. He also did the "Superheroes as Greek Gods" bit with Miracleman.

>>91077779
>>91077987
>>91078077
>>91079045

Fawcett stopped publishing because it wasn't making money. Superhero books weren't selling.

Fawcett didn't have any other ideas - they weren't able to compete as a publisher or they would have continued as a going concern as a publisher.

National Publications had a large catalogue and could survive on the sales of their entire line - they still continued to publish (and sell) copies of Superman, Bat Man and Wonder Woman even when other publishers stopped or minimally sold superhero books.

>>91078825
I came here to post something along these lines but you already did it better.

>>91078825
>His name is Shazam and has been for 40 years, deal with it.
He's only been Shazam since 2012. Up until that point he was still called Captain Marvel in comic, just not on the title.

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>>91080026
HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!