JSA Storytime: Manhunter

Why does next Wednesday have almost no good titles?

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>>91006398
What was good because I haven't read fucking anything this week or made it to my LCS

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>>91006445
I *did* have a quality hangover, thank you

I earned it

>>91006444
5th week is always awful

Iron Man (Tony Stark and Riri Williams) – written by Brian Michael Bendis
-Spider-Man (Peter Parker and Miles Morales) – Brian Michael Bendis
-Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers and Kamala Khan) – G. Willow Wilson
-Thor (Odinson and Jane Foster) – Jason Aaron
-Hawkeye (Clint Barton and Kate Bishop) – Kelly Thompson
-Hulk (Bruce Banner and Amadeus Cho) – Greg Pak
-Jean Grey (young and older) – Dennis Hopeless
-Wolverine (Logan and X23) – Tom Taylor
-Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers) – Margie Stohl
-Captain America (Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson) – Nick Spencer

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>>91006482
fucking nothing.jpg

>>91006444
it's a fifth week

The Booster Gold/Flintstones should be pretty cool if nothing else

>>91006445
Deathstroke was pretty good

Hal n Pals was fine if you like Kyle wank

I think an issue of Hydra Cap came out and the Foolkiller finale too

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>>91006512
I'm not spoiling myself on either Foolkiller or Tom Scioli: Amazing Madman

I did read all eight leaked pages of Snagglepuss, and my Twitter feed was uniformly "JESUS CHRIST HOWIE CHAYKIN"

>>91006482
So what's the more likely outcome of these and Generations in general?

>There are more shared mantle titles ala Nova
>There'll be two books for several characters, like Logan/All New Wolverine or Hawkeye/Occupy Avengers, etc
>They'll put half the "mentor" characters back on the shelf afterwards and keep pushing the legacies
>They'll shelve the legacies and go back to the older characters in the forefront

>>91006482
Are these one-shots for Generations or something? Behind on news

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>>91006532
(this is a Bad Idea)

>>91006532
That Snagglepuss story was beautiful, I can't wait for that book

and yeah I got a kick out of Chaykin being Chaykin

>>91006532
>>91006512
Foolkiller had a really strong ending. Also, one of my fav guest appearances in a while.

>>91006475
>>91006506
That's some gooood Diana characterization.

>>91006560
they're one shots or minis (not really clear?) for Generations yeah

I'm guessing they'll be relaunching a bunch of the related books afterwards though

>>91006445

Foolkiller and Hulk were good.

>>91006560
All we know is "it's not an EVENT" and "ITS NOT TIME TRAVEL GUYS"

We barely know any details, other than there are at least ten issues being written

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>>91006574
You know, I'll say this for it--pretty much all of the HB books have felt very personal and specific with a strong angle from the creative on them, and I appreciate how fucking loony DC is letting individuals go there compared to how massaged and middle-roaded most of the Marvel stuff feels right now.

>>91006482

The more I am seeing of what's coming with the next relaunch, the less I want it. They've learned nothing.

>>91006595
>>91006601
Thanks

Yeah not much interesting there I guess. Could be decent if it takes a "this is why our franchise is important" sort of love letter look on things though.

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>>91006616
If we get Snagglepuss even mentioning the Old Met I might die happy

if we get a scene in standing room I will absolutely keel over dead

>superbulge.jpg

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>>91006654
Mark Shaw was having a hell of a time

>>91006398
Hello, Storyteller.

We now return to Kate Spencer, Attorney at Law.

>>91006616

The HB books have no right to be as good as they are. Imo the group editor/HB editors are doing a fantastic job.

>>91006616
I get the impression that DC knew these weren't going to be big sellers no matter what they did so they might as well reach for the stars and put out something more unique

hell, Russel even said the Snagglepuss pitch was basically a joke and he couldn't believe it made it as far as it did as a pitch

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Howdy OP, I'm storytiming Secret Six when you are gone, and came across a prime Katehunter page

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>>91006678
Marie Javins and Brittany Holzherr! Who came on for Convergence and stayed on for DCYOU and is on Wild Storm.

Next week we'll get another issue of Winter Soldier: Guest starring the Thunderbolts, and I am really hoping that Zub does something to Bucky that makes his fans cry.

>>91006398
Howdy hey.

Aaron fully delivered on his greasy wet fart of a mystery, and it sucked every atom it was able to.
Renew Your Vows continues to be the best Spider-book since they cancelled Spider-Girl/Marvel Adventures.
I apparently missed an issue of Foolkiller that was out this week.

Roy Thomas didn't like Larry Hama, apparently, but Hama kinda half waffled about calling him out for shitting on Cultural Appropriation-fags after a night's sleep.


Oh, and it is a DAMN shame that Future Quest's hype around here died off after like, the second issue, because it is the best crossover event in years. Marvel should have let Parker run one of their big crossovers when they had the chance.

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>>91006701
ohhh yeah that fight, Knockout vs. Barda, good stuff

Simone's fondness for Misfit: less good

>>91006721
speaking of a fondness for Bucky, this Manifesto, as someone who's been in fandom grumble grumble long, strikes me as completely wrong although I'm not going to go poop on its enthusiasm and you shouldn't either but it's worth talking about because I know some of you write fic

tinyurl dot com slash ksonlfc

>>91006698

May as well go all out with books that you know won't have a large shelf life, anyway. Snagglepuss is looking amazin already.

>>91006482
>-Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers) – Margie Stohl

This and the Hulk one are the only ones I'm looking forward to, but for completely different reasons.

I'm one of five people who are under 40 who likes Mar-Vell, and I'm curious how badly Stohl will shit the bed on this. If it was Fazekas/Butters, I'd be hopeful, but all I'm expecting from the team responsible for YAAS QUEEN is trash.

>>91006445
This page feels... exploitable.

>>91006812
yeah I will happily take two trades of something great over six trades of mediocre bleh

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>>91006793
Oh shit let's talk about Aaron's resolution. That was some damp shit and ending the mini by basically saying LOL KEEP READING THE ONGOING is a deeply cynical nasty thing to do and I hope it rebounds on his ass.

What did Hama say? Busiek had some very even-handed comments about it, including some nods to Roy's very particular feelings on fidelity and more interestingly the reminder that Iron Fist was part of an entire constellation of kung fu characters who were not all whitey to say the least.

>>91006793

Apparently Roy Thomas told Hama once that he isn't good for anything but martial arts books and tried to get him fired off another book.

>>91006480
I miss Fifth Week events.

They were quick and often fun, and let them do kinda low stakes themed crossovers.

>>91006814
I would not be surprised in the slightest if it's another "Mar-vell comes back temporarily then dies again"

also they probably won't mention Teddy at all because why would they use him in a story that doesn't also involve Billy?

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>>91006844
is this Firefly's fucking suit???

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>>91006873
Andreyko would give a lot to write this book again, BTW

>>91006864
Either crossovers or odd one-time deals, like that time they did five war comic specials.

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>>91006861

>>91006482
Marvel's Rebith Generations is not.

Rebirth got me interested again, after being driven away by pre-New52 crossovers, and by New 52 outright rejecting everything that made me care about the characters.

Generations just seems like a half assed time travel story, even if they're claiming it isn't.

Anyone here play Drakengard 3? I feel like my brain has just been gently dick-whipped in the mouth. Like if Morrison made a satire of Millar making an anime.

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>>91006908
Nick Spencer's such an ass but I kind of want Secret Empire to be wildly successful because the bitching about it has reached such annoying levels, including "Marvel should have killed it and done something else."

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>>91006957

>>91006793
>>91006844
>Oh shit let's talk about Aaron's resolution. That was some damp shit and ending the mini by basically saying LOL KEEP READING THE ONGOING is a deeply cynical nasty thing to do and I hope it rebounds on his ass.

Yeah that resolution was a pile of shit and there is absolutely no excuse for waiting three fucking years to reveal it

I've seen people trying to defend it but it doesn't make sense unless you enjoy circular reasoning and the smell of your own farts

>>91006512
Why does it always need to be either Kyle Wank or Kyle Spank?

Why does he never just get to be a competent respected Lantern who's bros with Guy?
Or at least maintain a power boost without getting shelved for lack of ideas until they depower him again?

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>>91006988
Okay I just clicked on the first page of Foolkiller and hoily shit

that's amazing

F

>>91006957
Spencer is a twat on Twitter but I have been enjoying Hydra Steve a lot and Secret Empire sounds cool, plus all the delicious tears from people who hate it

Shit, I might actually end up paying money for a Marvel event. who knew

>>91006798
Misfit was super weird. I kind of forgot how much of a bitch that Katehunter was in those Birds of Prey issues. Then again, Simone was trying to make everyone hate Spy Smasher as hard as possible

>>91006569
00s Mustangs are sexy cars.

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>>91007029
Misfit and Black Alice are very of a particular Simone type and it's one I don't want to be hard on like some people are and yet I was also once an insufferable teenage girl, I get to say shit about them

>>91006957

People are being straight up hysterical about this story in ways that make me want to hand everyone involved a chill pill. Every single thing it does prompts absolutely over the top overreactions from the usual suspects. Spencer isn't helping his case in any way whatsoever but I also don't blame him for reacting with 'fuck this' to the Magneto controversy in particular where people threw a huge shitfit over pure speculation.

>>91007015
>Why does he never just get to be a competent respected Lantern who's bros with Guy?
It'd be cool if they could go back to that now that he's Green again, but it doesn't seem like they're going that direction

Guy's going to be bros with Arkillo now, maybe Kyle can hang out with Saint Walker more since they both got dumped

that issue was a lot of Kyle wank although I think a lot of Kyle fans also hated it

>>91007015
Why does it always have to be the human GLs? Frankly, all six of them can go right ahead and fuck off for a while.

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>>91007061
>>91007089
A German friend who reads comics was particularly brutal on some of the objections, basically arguing that either WWII is too sacred for comics to deal with now and you have to shelve Cap entirely, or you have to touch on the reality of what happened--but you can't want to keep Cap and then declare aspects off-limits.

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>>91007127

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>>91006654
>>superbulge.jpg

Got you covered.

>>91007165
That's one hell of a bulge.

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>>91007165
that's been so useful in my folders

>>91006670
Well, hey, Azrael was dead for a few years by this point, and they still hadn't created the black one. Gotta keep them IPs fresh.

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>>91007193
three pages in and Bemis is deconstructing the metatextual career of the Hood from BKV to Bendis?????

>>91007165
I have seen and heard way too many dick jokes today. Now it's just getting exhausting.

>>91006844
Busiek is probably the only person who still remembers the Sons of the Tiger, outside the people who read Deadly Hands when I ran it, so I'm not surprised he kept bringing them up, but EVERYTHING about Iron Fist shit the bed.

Who's idea was to make corporate boardroom politics the B-Plot?

If you ask me, here's what Iron Fist should've been, a Mortal Arts style Tournament. Get Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, all three Sons of the Tiger, and BS some way to get White Tiger in there as well. If you do that, you'd have a surprisingly multiracial martial arts show, two white guys, two Asian guys, a black guy, a Latino man, an Asian woman, and that's not counting the OCs.

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>>91007226
how did Foolkiller even happen when it's so clearly For Me

>>91006873
Dylan is best boy

>>91007127
What gets to me is that it's clearly a story that will get undone and the damage to Steve as a character is minimal if not outright negated by this being the result of Kobik reality fucking him. So I don't get all the crying about him being ruined forever from Cap stans.

If you wanna talk actually ruined forever, look at Tony or Wanda.

>>91006928
>Anyone here play Drakengard 3? I feel like my brain has just been gently dick-whipped in the mouth. Like if Morrison made a satire of Millar making an anime.

That sounds like why I haven't gotten into Neir.

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>>91007244
My only political reference today will be that if you're not going to cover birth control, you have to pull out

:)

>>91006957
I'm mostly just annoyed that it's becoming so big. I have no interest in the megacrossover shit but the ongoing has been entertaining. Wish the end was more Standoff-sized.

>>91007226
>How did you know it wouldn't hit me?
>I didn't. Guess it's your lucky day.
PFFT. Careful not to cut yourself on that edge, Kate.

>>91007253

Foolkiller is such a good example of a use of the medium, too, and by someone who is coming from outside the medium, too. The use of color contrasts and paneling in particular is great especially during the Punishersequence.

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>>91007284
I'm surprised that Simone got away with this line

>>91006798
Given that Dr Trapp appears male, I guess 'he' is secretly a woman and her full name is Dr Reverrse Trapp.
Brought to you by: the 4chan is Bad For You Commission

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>>91007322
That is a fair objection and I agree to it. The ongoing could be tighter than it is, but I actually kind of like the deliberate pacing and that it's focusing on shit other than just Cap. Like Best Boy Helmut.

>>91007347
All five issues by Talajcic, right?

>>91007165
this will come handy in trunks shitposting threads

>>91007284
>My only political reference today will be that if you're not going to cover birth control, you have to pull out
I hope you're not talking about within the context of a relationship, though.

>>91007273
Apparently the whole franchise is like this. Not sure if I want more or not.

>>91007284
>birth control
I was talking about Drakengard 3, and I frankly don't want to know what it is that you're referencing.

>>91007378
Did you catch up on the Cap book? Spencer is so kind to Helmut right now. Here is to him being as kind to whichever of the other Bolts he is getting his hand on.

>All five issues by Talajcic, right?
Yep. Iirc he also did some issues for Punisher Max. And Bemis already announced on his twitter that he has more Marvel projects coming.

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>>91007460
>>91007440
it's a crack about the health care bill dying before even getting to a vote, jeez

>>91007249
It mostly sounds like they're afraid from straying from their "grounded" formula.

>>91007482
The joke.

My head.

Thanks for the explanation, JSAnon!

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>>91007474
I'm not caught up on Cap but I just sniffled a bit at Foolkiller, that was satisfying and didn't foreclose on future adventures

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>>91007514
>>91007249
Corporate boardroom can be exciting but the writing has to be top-notch and less dour hallway punchup

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>>91006844
>Oh shit let's talk about Aaron's resolution.
It is SOOOO bad.
If doubt in the worth of divinity could make Thor unworthy, it'd have happened like every other issue back in the day.

>What did Hama say?

This >>91006923
But also that Thomas was wrong about Cultural Appropriation not being a real issue, but he backtracked on that bit in a later post, because he realizes that internet callout culture is as toxic as nerve gas and shitting on Roy isn't the moral high road.

>>91007482
Oh. I don't really pay much attention to politics, cause they make me want to kill myself.

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>>91007545
>>91007548
totally fair

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>>91007583
hey cranky it's your waifu

>>91007547
I mean, RIGHT? "Are the goods Good" is surely something that's been dealt with a million times before and Gorr was certainly nothing new on that front. IIRC anon also pointed out that the timeline on Nick Fury having Actual Watcher Powers or shit was off for that to be a convincing weight on it

I loved the reading of the whole thing as a metaphor for erectile dysfunction, and with that no more talk of cocks

>>91006957
>Thank God I watched that Kate/Wonder Woman training vid a few dozen times

God, his dick skin must be halfway to falling off.

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>>91007622

Hey thread! I late

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>>91007698
HI ANON

>>91007514
>>91007545
Can we talk about how good Andreko's characterization of Diana is? It's like he's not retarded and realizes that the so called dichotomy people bitch about is whoreshit, and that she can be both caring and friendly while also having a warrior's spirit.

>>91007029
>Misfit was super weird.

She always felt like a lot of setup to no actual payoff to me.

>>91007514
>Mujer de la Maravilla
Pffft... that means "Woman of the Wonder."

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>>91007733
>>91007740
still infinite ;___; at how Batwoman didn't work

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>>91007779
Like, this isn't just me, but this is a big 'lol' at the difference between BKV Hood and Bendis Hood etc., right?

>>91007779
I'm still baffled that he fucked Batwoman up so hard, that should have been right up his alley

>>91007622
Circe! There's my girl!

>>91007268

As i was saying when it first happened, how is your reaction not "I can't wait to see how Steve gets out of this one"

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>>91007832
I don't know if it was lack of time, and I haven't looked at who edited it, and maybe coming on was just too weird, but even the characters I love like Ragman just didn't click and he really missed the tone on the vampire rape stuff

What genre/tone/etc. is Bennett going for? Rucka was more crime and JHW3 went supernatural

>>91007878
so that manifesto I linked has some detailed bitching about what the author would want out of the plot

>>91007492
>>91007545
The problem is that, not only is that not the kind of story you'd expect from Iron Fist, it wasn't utter shit too.

Seriously, as long as you're ripping shit off, Mortal Kombat. Go for it Marvel, what do you have to lose now? You already turned Iron Fist into a joke.

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>>91007917
Speaking of Mortal Kombat

1) Sterling Gates would love to write an MK book and was pitching the idea to Zirch

2) I still owe you all a debt of intense gratitude for informing me about the suckerpunch because it's the best thing ever

3) (I watched the live-action TV show first run)

>>91007828
I never read BKV's Hood, but it's definitely throwing shade Bendis's way.

>>91007284
Man that Carlin box is right out of Cheap Laffs.

>>91006398
I'm late but you thought I was going to make some remark about OP being a faggot here, didn't you?

I brought it up in a Thor thread but I really like the idea of Watcher Fury coming back to deal with HYDRA Steve.

>>91007622

I enjoyed people realizing that first arc of Aaron Thor wasn't good. Finally vindication!

>>91007828

Cool edgy millennial Wilson Fisk is totally a shot

>>91007907

Oh god they're starting to talk about fanfic and i just remember that time someone was like "If comics aren't doing it for you go read fanfic of the characters!" and then I went looking for good Cyclops/Emma stuff and only found weird humiliation sex and movieverse garbage.

i return to if someone is so good at fanfic why are you wasting time on it and not real/original writing.

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>>91007990
yes, you got me

>>91008033
Okay, I will stick up for the "fic fills a niche and can be a hobby for people who don't want to write original stuff" line of argument. But fic is, overwhelmingly with a few exceptions, in a dependency mode on the original and people transitioning to do original things off their work on it often discover things they hadn't realized about creating.

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I'm not sure where to post this, so I guess I'll just share it with you guys.

>>91007990
got me

>>91006506
This sounds like Spencer-and-Ewing-on-CW2-tie-ins-tier damage control. I wasn't reading comics when this was coming out, but that's basically what's happening here, yeah?

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>>91008086
There's some really good work that started out as fic that you'd never guess was fic

and then there's FSoG, well.

>>91008087
you're the best, anon

I miss Usenet

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>>91008133
HAH!

>>91008127
it's more along the lines of "Rucka was going to handle the aftermath but got screwed over in general by IC and it's probably half luck and half offering that Andreyko actually did a good job resolving it except almost no one read it"

>>91008087
Bwahahaha

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>>91008168

>>91008033
I'm not someone who actually writes but my impression is that people who write fic do it as a community activity. It's not really about just telling a story or whatever. It's part of interacting with fans of the material and essentially an exercise in "wouldn't it be cool if..."

Obviously with something original you don't get that.

>>91008086

oh i don't mean to look down on it as a hobby or anything. it's this weird self importance people sometimes carry with it that gets to me. and I don't really like the idea of the fan trying to "fix" things? . like doing a fan Peanuts strip where Charlie Brown kicks the football. the art is the art

or maybe better example it's like going to a burger joint, getting a cheeseburger and then being mad it's not a steak

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>>91008211
the fraternity/sorority of smokers is still such a real thing

>>91006532
All I've ever seen Snagglepuss in was a Yogi Bear movie where he shows up for like a minute just before the height of the climax, and I still read all the dialogue in his voice. It was the craziest thing.

>>91006551
None of the above. Things will continue exactly as they have been because Marvel's editorial hasn't a damn clue what it's doing.

>>91008033
>Oh god they're starting to talk about fanfic and i just remember that time someone was like "If comics aren't doing it for you go read fanfic of the characters!" and then I went looking for good Cyclops/Emma stuff and only found weird humiliation sex and movieverse garbage.
Yeah you're SOL for comics-based fanfic unless you like the Batfamily and most of that is shit too

>>91008227

i guess i'm saying criticism and fanfic should be different things actually.

>>91008269

the person who said this was hilariously enough complaining about Bucky in comics which really should've been the first red flag.

i'm like almost ashamed to be a bucky fan nowadays. (BuckyCap was able to stop Steve from being turned into a nazi, ALL I'M SAYING)

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>>91008227
Oh, no, the self-importance of the FIC IS CHANGING HOW WE READ just made me do the *makes wanking motions* thing. I do think it indicates that there's a market out there for something that hits those buttons, and that's not uninteresting. And to be fair, Big Two cape comics are in an interesting position because fans are now the ones running the second/third generation asylum, and I don't believe as much as Busiek does that the condition of being licensed/authorized means anything wrt to the quality or the content. There's fanstuff Trek novels that are better than the 'real' thing, for sure.

>>91008269
Batfam is fascinating to me because it's turned into a self-sustaining organism that requires zero reference to actual comics

>>91007917
>The problem is that, not only is that not the kind of story you'd expect from Iron Fist

It's kind of amazing that in like 40 years of being a rich guy, they've only ever come close to corporate shenanigans like twice in the comics.

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>>91008345
>>91008309
De Campi is another one who will beat the drum on "Women are writing 100k Stucky novels that are a zillion times better than the current comics" and I really don't see it but aesthetics is a very YMMV thing.

>>91008345
>Batfam is fascinating to me because it's turned into a self-sustaining organism that requires zero reference to actual comics
It's interesting to watch from the outside because I have zero personal investment in the characters and yeah it's a little wild how nearly everything in that fandom is perpetuated BY the fandom, comics themselves are very tertiary to it

but they ARE ostensibly based off comics instead of cartoons or live action, it's the darnedest thing

maybe because it's REALLY easy to repost pages and panels and context doesn't really matter?

>>91008309
I feel bad for you guys cause the MCU got a lot of really obnoxious people to stan for Bucky.

>>91008345

>And to be fair, Big Two cape comics are in an interesting position because fans are now the ones running the second/third generation asylum, and I don't believe as much as Busiek does that the condition of being licensed/authorized means anything wrt to the quality or the content.

Roy Thomas got in because he did a fan magazine iirc, the asylum has been taken over from the start.

I think it's def more "Hey here's an untapped audience brought in by the mass appeal of movies" and not "CHANGING HOW WE READ"

>>91008395

I just cannot understand Stucky. like i get it but it just feels like "Two hot guys making out" to me. They're like brothers!! it's familial love!

>>91008395
I've read a lot of novel length (or beyond) fanfic that's just legit good writing all around but I cringe at this weird "IT'S BETTER THAN CANON!" bragging

canon is what it is, fanmade additions can fill a niche that the material is lacking or expand on scenarios that wouldn't or couldn't ever happen in canon but it's not a fucking contest with the source material

>>91008395

The thing is that a lot of those 100k Stucky novels are not good at all but they hit a certain emotional itch, which hey, is fine but it doesn't make for a good or marketable book, and the fic writing audience is only a small part of the comics buying one. Buckybolts is basically a garbage Bucky kid!fic and it sells like shit, too.

>>91008477
>They're like brothers!! it's familial love!
that's what makes it sexy anon

>>91008376
Immortal Iron Fist had it as a subplot, and Namor ended up buying out out company. Am I forgetting another?

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>>91008411
It's easy to repost a panel, and then one thing fic is very good at doing is taking a little thing and running with it, and if 20 people love that one story they adopt a component of it, and more people read it, and soon no one knows it's not canon, or it's barely canon, or it's a weird reading of one panel, or...

>>91008490
I wish the author would admit "this just plain scratches my id" instead of "this is a way forward via fandom" because it's also a super-niche part of fandom that the internet has connected to each other and magnified.

>>91008087
quality content

>>91008617

i find it telling i never actually see recs for fanfics in these kind of things. Like if I wanted to talk about comics as a legit medium you'd name Watchmen ya know. Or like if I was talking about how 60s Marvel was revolutionary you'd talk about Stan and Jack's characterization of heroes vs the Superman Family at the time

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>>91008617
Also, what the manifesto defines as a "flaw" can also be rephrased as "not doing what I want specifically" which is not necessarily a flaw, it's just different/value-neutral. Like I don't go to a Handel opera and expect a vocal quintet.

I'm picking apart one paragraph and as best as I can parse it--because this is overwritten--it's "I want stories that focus on intense emotions between characters and go into great depth with that as the driving force."

>>91008614

> Namor ended up buying out out company.

how long did Namor have that company from Byrne's run!??!

>>91008617
There is this sense of self-importance that people pushing the transformative works have that puts me off even as someone who reads and has written fic in the past.

>>91008477
>Roy Thomas got in because he did a fan magazine iirc

And Jim Shooter was literally a kid who sent in unsolicited fan scripts.

>>91008715
I don't rec fanfics to people because I don't want them to know my kinks

>>91006928
I feel like from listening, Taro is Urobuctcher tier with his "but that's not even the final twist." I really can't stand writers who destroy the whole thematic value and decent plots of anything because muh twist and shock factor.

>>91008614
The bit near the end of PM-IF with Red Iron Fist and Rand-Meachum getting bought out by that blonde chick.

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>>91008715
to be fair, the author recs fic all the time, and I can point you to places people talk about fic

My problem is that no one's writing fic for anything I want to read, and I have never had luck at the "get into something to read the fic" kind of fandom

>>91008742
it's so Aja

>>91008746

another good one! i think most of the marvel bullpin got in as fans post-Stan and Jack era. Conway was like 19 when he took over Spider-Man!

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>>91008795
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this plot actually never happens. for reasons. which is a goddamn shame.

So! We're back tomorrow, we have a six-issue arc and a two-issue epilogue left in the run. thanks for reading!

(I'm going to parse that manifesto a bit more tonight)

>>91008741
Oracle? I dunno, but in the 90's Heroes for Hire, Rand-Meachum was still a subsidiary of Oracle, and Fraction just "forgot" about that, and made Danny the head of the company.

That first arc would've ended a LOT differently if Namor were calling the shots.

>"Oh, Hydra is trying to take over? IMPERIUS REX!"

>>91008795
>and I have never had luck at the "get into something to read the fic" kind of fandom

And even then you are often shit out of luck if common fandom tropes and fanon aren't your thing. As someone who is a reliable villain/hero shipper, most of what fandom in general produces for those ships is just way too fluffy, glurgy garbage for me.

>>91008877
>Fanfiction’s occupation with interpersonal development and connection makes for an interest, not in action or political intrigue, but in the emotional outcome. To put it simply, readers who are coming to stories about corrupted heroes are looking for the catharsis of the end; the return to form, and significant time spent on the personal cost that return to form will herald. They are not looking for punches, explosions, and an endlessly ramped up sense of secrecy and tension.

This is just...well, okay, that's YOUR kink, but to ascribe that to 'fandom' at large is a 'citation needed'.

>>91008617
>I wish the author would admit "this just plain scratches my id" instead of "this is a way forward via fandom" because it's also a super-niche part of fandom that the internet has connected to each other and magnified.

Yeah, let's not pretend as though fan fiction is something the internet created. That shit is old school Convention culture, just as surely as Filk is. And you don't see too many big long articles in praise of the miracle that is internet filk.

Probably because it's less fetishy.

>>91008776
The blonde woman was just the head of SMILE, who Danny and Luke were tricked into working for, I don't think she ever got involved with Rand-Meachum. Or maybe I'm forgetting, it's been a while.

>>91008918

i mean that it like how stories work. it's weird how they seem to be applying it to only fanfic. fights are more interested when you care about the fighters and who wins kinda thing

>>91008919
I'm weirdly fond of old-school filk culture because it's so niche but everyone who does it knows that it's niche and doesn't try to make it more than it is.

>>91008971
What also interests me is that comics, as a primarily visual format in which dialogue has to be cut to the bone, are certainly not not a format in which you can't do intense interpersonal (although beware static art and someone might kill you for 22 pages of sitting at a table), but you don't have the same resources as you do in the novel format, at all

>>91008877
thanks OP

>>91008771
Eh. D3's final twist was actually pretty well put together and coherent. I fully expected the story to completely shit the bed, but it actually worked out pretty well. There was sort of this moment where can see the game stopping and going "Okay, enough fucking around. Here's what's going on.".

>>91008877
Thanks a lot for the storytime.
>that fucking blurb
Oh you guys.

>>91008887
Towards the end of H4H, Namor decided to mostly dissolve Oracle, IIRC.

Just assume he divested Rand back to Danny or something.

>>91008918
yeah a lot of fic is just coming up with creative ways to set up sex scenes and not really about emotional growth beyond a couple getting together

>>91009017

desu the big reason i never got into fanfic is because it felt so weird to read about tv characters or comic characters etc. something about the media shift fucked with me.

>>91008877
Thanks for posting as always, Storyteller.

Kate Spencer is a sad, grim, total fuck up of a human stain. She's alright. Despite the rocky journey and mixed feelings, I'm glad I read this. Hope the end is at least as serviceable as the rest.

>>91008877
Thanks as always OP

>>91009094
there's also this fascinating thing we call Migratory Slash Fandom, wherein the tropes of one setup are carried over nearly or totally intact into another, but a new setting/characters provides some essential variety to keep the juggernaut going.

>>91009129
>MA: I think I’m prouder more of the general tone than any specific incident. I’ve gone back and reread the whole run of the book, and actually having characters grow and change is meaningful to me. Whether it’s comic books or movies, it’s always the illusion of change. When it’s Mickey Mouse or Superman, it’s hard to do it because there are so many licenses and stockholders you are beholden to, but because Kate is a new character and under the radar, there is the possibility of change.

>If you read the first issue and issue 30, you’ll see definite growth for the character.

>>91009175
>MA: The biggest influences on Kate were the actresses of the ’30s and ’40s, when the women weren’t ladies but broads. People like Bette Davis or Katherine Hepburn. They were in on it, and embraced it. They didn’t need men. Also Helen Mirren, specifically her work in “Prime Suspect.” Because she was a woman who was a hard drinker and a smoker, it seemed fresh. I didn’t want to make her a “woman” character, I wanted to make her a character who was a woman.

>>91008877
Thanks for running, see you tomorrow.

>>91009175
>>91009129
This is why I always hold this run as such a perfect platonic ideal of character development through a serialized run. Kate in issue 1 is an unlikeable mess of a woman, a walking disaster. But she changes, she grows, she becomes stronger and fiercer but also happier and balanced. And we're there every step of the way. And to me it's also important to see how the changes in her also affect the people around her. Her son, who barely said one word in her direction at the start, learns to love her again. She gets back on talking terms with her ex. Not to mention everything about her family. It's just such an amazingly rewarding journey and I love it to bits.

>>91006798
>That treatise on fanfiction
Holy FUCK this 11-paragraph intro just get to the fucking point you goddamn soft-in-the-head pretentious cunt.

I'm seriously having a hard time retaining objectivity while reading this. They try to use scholarly language as though it will make their point more legitimate while at the same time they come off as one of those fake nerd grrls who "got into" comics because they thought Stucky in the movies was dreamy with how often they toss out the phrase "pop culture."

...aaaand now they've gone on to actually mention the MCU and Stucky. Jesus christ I was just giving a vague example fuck you bitch you can't validate your latching onto "nerd culture" by writing essays about shit people just do for fun. If you're only into the shit because it's popular, you're not going to be able to hide that, so stop trying. Use the time you should have spent showing everyone how big a nerd you are actually reading some old comics instead.

Anyway OP to respond to what you said, she's off-base because she comes from the superwholock/fandom/shipping Tumblr blog portion of the internet and so her view of the acceptance and proliferation of fanfiction is horribly misinformed. Regardless of how much fan works contribute to fans' enjoyment of the corresponding official works, she won't be able to discuss it accurately until she starts interacting with people who don't hang out in her safe space.

tl;dr the writer needs to get their head out of their ass and hang out at their LCS

>>91006957
>sister knows nothing about the guy except that he plunged headfirst into danger because he cares so much about Cameron, and he has a bitching suit
>"That's your boyfriend? Really?" because he looks like a 5/10 average Joe
Judgemental cunt. You should take a dip in that lava.

>>91009609
that's not entire fair, the author reads a lot of comics too, and I'm not going to judge someone just on how they got into things. and there's nothing wrong with liking comics and liking MCU and liking fic. What I'm trying to understand and what's not well-formed in the essay is what Stucky or other fic fans are expecting/want/would like to see, and why we should care/what could be interesting and new out of it.

>>91007226
>three pages in and Bemis is deconstructing the metatextual career of the Hood from BKV to Bendis?????
Source? Also I didn't know The Hood and Y were by the same dude.

>I missed the storytime again

poo

>>91010008

it's weird how they aren't just like "the writers suck because X, Y, and Z"

it ultimately always sounds like they just want no stakes no conflict fluffy coffee shop fic to me

>>91009129
>>91009175
>>91009224
>>91009283

Call me stupid if you want, but it seems like this is what Jessica Jones COULD have been if Bendis weren't such a fucking hack.

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Im still shipping casual relations between these two but only if she doesn't know hes a superhero

>>91010069
Going by what the author has posted about elsewhere, I think their kinks are definitely whump and h/c (hurt/comfort), wherein the wounds are lavishly described, both physical and emotional, and then the focus is on the aftermath of trauma and the recovery. Those are very well-defined fic genres that you'll occasionally see poking their heads through into professional material, but never at such length because they put the plot on hold and they're pretty fucking self-indulgent. (If you like secondary world fantasy, Carol Berg is the goddamn queen of whump, for instance.)

>>91010054
yeah, BKV did the original Hood mini, and pic's upthread

>>91010191

>Those are very well-defined fic genres that you'll occasionally see poking their heads through into professional material

Hell that's kind of the basis for Uncanny X-Men post Mutant Massacre thru Outback Era.

>>91007268
People who don't need comics need to realize they don't read comics and discuss these things with people who do before they react.

>>91007514
Joke's on you, Kate. Main universe Wondy will NEVER be allowed to have a family.

Seriously, can you imagine them trying to do the Superman Reborn stuff with Diana?

>>91010233
That's true, X-Men as soap opera has always dug pretty hard into these tropes. So I think we can also say it's a case of "Why can't these characters I like (Bucky) end up in plots like these old X-plot that I really like, instead of being in this other plot that I don't care about because I want to get on with it."

From the author:

-Here's the thing: I've actually been genuinely enjoying the Hydra!Cap storyline but I'm...very much ready for it to be over.

-The appeal of Hydra!Cap obviously isn't Cap being Hydra, it's the inevitable rescue of Cap FROM Hydra. Dragging it out is just exhausting.

-I've been thinking hard about why I love fanfic of evil Steve vs why I'm exhausted by the hydra Cap run right now and it dawned on me

-It's the fact that I enter into fics about Steve being evil with an EXPRESS understanding that I'm here for the eventual emotional pay off-and not just any emotional pay off, a very heart felt one. The entire genre of hurt/comfort is built on this idea that catharsis is coming.

-Hydra Cap is a really clear example of that. A trope I deeply enjoy in fanon based on an understanding that isn't being honored in canon

-

-ANYWAY. Women have written novels about Hydra Cap that are a million times more satisfying than canon for free. I'm so tired. The end.

>>91010358
>-The appeal of Hydra!Cap obviously isn't Cap being Hydra, it's the inevitable rescue of Cap FROM Hydra. Dragging it out is just exhausting.
no the appeal is Hydra Cap being boyfriends with Helmut

>>91010385
Well you know this and I know this

What also comes to mind is that the one male Marvel character who's traditionally gotten the "emotional vulnerability" that she's looking for is Tony Stark, and he has accordingly always had a substantial female following, and once upon a time Cap/Iron Man was the dominant slash pairing in Marvel fandom.

>>91010358
>novels about Hydra Cap that are a million times more satisfying than canon for free
I'm guessing more satisfying = involves lots of Bucky

>>91010146
don't mind it tbqh

>>91010436
Oliver Sava Mar 23
I hate the Cosmic Cube

Alex de Campi Mar 23

me too. In the comics u it's been responsible for so many lazy narrative shortcuts that could have been SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING
I mean, *flips hair, assumes Hipster Ariel voice* I've hated it since it magically gave Bucky his memories back, destroying what could have been an amazing recovery / PTSD story into "he's just brown-haired Captain America Lite now"

>>91010563
>I've hated it since it magically gave Bucky his memories back, destroying what could have been an amazing recovery / PTSD story into "he's just brown-haired Captain America Lite now"
sounds like a good fic idea :^)

>>91010595
hee, well, that was the point--there's a demographic out there that's really into things like "Long Bucky recovery from PTSD" stories and wants to see those narrative kinks in the pro work, or at least something that pushes the same buttons.

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>>91010385
some people haven't seen the light yet

>>91009824
Man, talk about letting your own biases color a work.

I totally read that as "Uh, your boyfriend just showed up in a super-suit to save you? That's pretty weird, as these things go.", myself. More about "dating someone who has access to a super-suit and will use it in a spontaneous rescue op" being the "really?" than Dylan's appearance.

>>91010621
yeah that's fair

I mean I like that stuff too but I guess I've just gotten used to expecting that kind of thing to be the realm of fandom and not seen as often in canon? in canon those kinds of slow burn hurt/recovery stories don't often have the ROOM to work out unless a story is dedicated to it and even then in a big 2 comic you still have to work around an actual interesting plot and other obstacles

I can't really even think of many h/c style stories that have happened in canon. Grayson's Nightwing maybe? but even that was pretty flimsy on the comfort part

>>91010621
>>91010563

oh hey i just figured out why i like comics bucky more. he skipped all that shit. also it was done pretty subtly for them i guess. i got a lot of bucky self hate and attempt at redemption in Bru.

>>91010358

they just wanna skip to the end!! and don't trust/believe in marvel to stick a landing

>>91010674

i made this and never remembered to post in these threads. thanks.

>>91008248
His voice and mannerism are distinct, notable.

Memorable, even!

>>91010698
That's my take, too--if fandom doesn't suck, I can go to fandom and have that self-indulgent itch scratched at leisure, but it's not what I'm reading canon for.

It's a bit like how rare my favorite thing in fandom is--plotty genfic--because that's hard in the way that the original material is also hard, structuring a clever plot and all. Not that character development isn't also a skill that takes work, and dialogue is nothing to sneeze at, but a well-structured novel, it's the structure part.

>>91010358
>>91010563
Thinking about it more, I guess what's bugging me about this is the framing that emotional stories are a trademark of fic and fandom stuff but I feel like it's a bit of a niche even there having been reading fic for like half my life at this point. Feels almost belittling or stereotyping or something to go that far with it just because there's reader preference.

>>91010705
>i made this and never remembered to post in these threads. thanks.

there's like only 5 people on all of /co/, I'm certain

>>91010909
and that's reader preference for her I mean

>>91010909
It is also absolutely the author characterizing their subniche of fandom as Fandom.

Dudes write fic that's very different from 100k of h/c, it's 100k of harems and fighting tournaments.

there also seems like just a straight up lack of understanding that Big 2 are businesses and there are a bunch of hoops to jump through and lines to stay in when doing comics. I mean even that a fanfic is just one person and a comic is like 4 or 5?

Well I guess there are exceptions, Copra is a thing. Man I wanna ask these people about Copra fitting into this fanfic discussion.

>>91010909

the punchline is i made it for tumblr first

>>91010674
>no Bernie or Diamondback between Peggy and Zemo

>>91008771
>I really can't stand writers who destroy the whole thematic value and decent plots of anything because muh twist and shock factor.
Thank you. I've been trying to put into words since 2012 why Madoka rubs me the wrong way. The ending completely obliterates the rest of the story as a weighty tragedy.

>>91011066
Also no Sharon. Or Carol.

>>91011194
>Or Carol
Illuminated Steve/Carol best ship

>>91011077
Madoka drove me nuts because they put all of this Goethe into it and accordingly I was sure that Kyuubey would be a Mephistopheles of some sort, and no, not at all

>>91011077
See, the problem is you expected a happy-ish ending. Everyone knows a happy ending gunned down Urobuchi's parents in a dark alley, and now he spends the rest of his life eliminating them.

>>91011194
>Or Carol
Only in Illuminated Comics are they good together.

>>91010008
I didn't mean to say that people introduced through the MCU are unwanted. That'd make me a hypocrite since I only came to this board and discovered storytimes on a whim. What I was criticizing was that there's a very loud group of people who by and large don't have real comic experience and yet they conduct themselves as if their experience with secondhand and thirdhand sources gives them any sort of authority on the genuine canon comics, which is just blatantly posing. The writer comes off as one of these inauthentic types. It's fine if you don't like what professional writers are doing. I don't like they fluffy, inconsequential direction of Nadia's book when she had so much potential in a direction that I feel would be far more interesting. The difference is that I'm not claiming this is something the comics NEED to have and only fanfic can right this injustice.

If you're a relatively casual fan, that's cool. But for the love of God have some self awareness and realize that you shouldn't expect the genuine article to conform to your rosy-tinted fanwork.

>>91011549

Some people are Superhero fans and not Comic fans and that's OK

i would say Geoff Johns is one of these

>>91010674
Where the fuck is my Captain Falcon ship?

>>91011549
Just sayin', though, the writer reads a lot of comics. She just reads it through a very particular lens.

And there is a kind of shit you get as a female fan that you don't always get, but when you do, it galls. Personal experience.

>>91011631
What about Bendis? I get very much fanfic vibes from his disregard for universe continuity

>>91011772

I think Bendis turned at some point once he hit a level of popularity. He's just a fan of Bendis, Byrne West Coast Avengers, and that time Doom and Tony got stuck in Camelot

>>91011772
I think he's just an egomaniac. There's no love or real fandom there.

>>91011748
>And there is a kind of shit you get as a female fan that you don't always get, but when you do, it galls.
Could I get you to elaborate? I hope my vocabulary earlier didn't make me come off as attacking her for having the audacity to talk about comics while owning a vagina. I would have been just as verbally abusive if I thought they were a male. Just substitute "cunt" for "fucker." It's just that, as I said, they came across as part of That Group, and the vast majority of that group's members are female - so it was a statistical likelihood.

>>91011860
Basically the "You must be here from the movies and don't know shit about comics" kind of thing and then they try to hit on you as they rec you things condescendingly. The assumption of low/no knowledge.

At least in a US context if you call someone a cunt you're being very aggressive on a gendered front and you're going to get a response you wouldn't get with something like "shithead".

>>91011792
Right, Bendis is the person who's read a few things and they've stuck with him and he's not curious enough to read more and try to work with a wider spread of treatments of one character or topic.

>>91012106
My apologies, then. I didn't mean to belittle anyone besides the article writer.

I fucking hate elitist creeper neckbeards just as much. It's like, if you don't like casuals getting in your hardcore shit, help them understand the difference between the two and do it with respect. You can both educate the ignorant and deter further invasion into your little sekrit club simply by responding without antagonism.

Fucking self-awareness is all I ask. Why is it so hard to come by? Goddamn.

>>91012384
no problem. and I actually kind of like the article writer, I'm just trying to get my brain around the argument and I thought it was worth talking about here with the owls.

>>91012437
I respect that your opinion of them differs from mine.

Goodnight. Thanks for the story and the discussion, as always.

>>91007740
Fucking right?

>>91007740
>>91013318
Yeah, he's managing to write her dead on, which is something a lot of people struggle way too much with. Especially interesting would be to contrast this with Jodi Picoult's concurrent and not too great WW run.

Reading bump

>>91007253
It's a shame it didn't get a longer run because the whole second arc is basically compressed into this one issue.

>>91007917
The weird thing is a martial arts tournament would have been more in line with the kind of exploitation movie influence you've had in Luke Cage and Jessica Jones.

>>91006506
I love the way Wondy's hair looks here sooooooooooooooooo god damn much

>>91010146
Kate deserves a nice attentive BC she can take the edge off with.

>>91010191
Is there a term for h/c stories without the c? I'm talking about things where hurt or damage is there and detailed but it's part and parcel of the character's actions, and the story is likely to have an unhappy resolution.

For stuff we've read: like older Foolkiller (I actually thought Greg got off so easy in the current one) or parts of Suicide Squad.

That would be one of my Things I Like and obviously puts me in a very different place in regards to what I'd enjoy from e.g. HydraCap than your essayist above.

>>91015716
I didn't really get that from Jessica Jones. Luke Cage definitely did which is why I think it's the best of the Netflix series.

Iron Fist suffers because I feel like it tries too hard to Bendis-ize the character when that doesn't make any sense. IMO you could call the Netflix shows the Bendisverse, except at least with Daredevil and JJ that's an appropriate direction to take.

Iron Fist feels like they went and said "OK let's take Iron Fist, a silly character with no good stories, and update him to fit with our gritty Netflix shows!" instead of going back and reading the treating the original material with respect.

Busiek's comment on Roy Thomas only caring if the adaptations have accurate costumes kind of hit close to home ;_;

>>91015948
I don't think JJ is heavy on it but there's P.I. and rape-and-revenge stuff from the era that I think has been influential, if maybe only incidentally to the sort of story it is rather than JJ specific.

>>91015948
>>91015999
And yeah, even if they didn't have the budget for a full-on heavenly realm I don't think anyone would have objected to them channeling the stranger, more imaginative stuff or some Shaw Bros action. I didn't want it but now I think straight up just concentrating on Bru/Fraction IIF would have been do-ably grounded and far superior in terms of content.

>>91016036
That run seems to have been oddly forgotten in the past year or two, where it used to be a staple in rec threads.

>>91006798
Not getting too into this, but this comes across as a pretty badly edited piece and the use of " transformative works" early on without a definition tells me how it's gonna go. That's not a term I recognise as applied to fanfiction, but googling it directs me to AooO and fanlore.org and I immediately feel a comics vs. graphic novels separation.

I think it sets up a couple of expectations and assumptions in efforts to get to its point and requests that it never really bothers to actually establish. Immediately it steps around fanfiction being a subset and, well, first I am in total agreement that fanfic can demonstrate a market, inclination, taste etc and can even be a much larger group than purchasing fans. But I definitely have a problem with the argument that fanfiction is as huge and encompassing as actual text, and then following on to make broad generalizations about the community around it that you would be at v. least hesitant to make with actual text.

>>91016898
I find a fair bit of irony in this line as applied to the article too:
>The superhero genre is rife with “rules” that seem to be observed only by force of habit

>>91016115
Superior Kaare Andrews series happened.

>>91017029
Was Living Weapon actually good? People here mainly seemed to slate it when it was coming out.

>>91007023
I don't like that they killed Kurt QQ

>>91015921
Whump might cover that, if it's focused purely on and doesn't go into h/c. The essence of that is "putting characters through as much shit as humanly possible".

>>91015540

>>91023190

>>91015921
I've just seen stuff like that tagged as angst, or angst without a happy end