I for one welcome our new Hydra overlords.

>>90919745
Who is Glasses guy and guy who looks like a DC villain?

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>>90919745
Where's SpOck at?

>>90919745
Why does robocop have horns?

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>>90919794
Glasses guy is Doctor Faustus.
I assume that the "guy who looks like a DC villain" is the guy above Zemo. That's Daniel Whitehall, the Kraken, he's from Hickman's Secret Warriors and has shown up in Captain Hydra's fanfic flashbacks and was a villain in the Agents of SHIELD TV show. Last I checked he was dead but it looks like it didn't last.

>>90919794
Glasses guy is Doctor Faustus and an old Cap villain.

Who looks like a DC guy? The guy with horns? That's Kraken

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So is Steve going to like

kill himself

If this brainwash/"past rewrite" gets undone?

I mean, characters like Wolverine and Reed Richards and Tony Stark do heinous shit that they're technically not responsible for and don't bat an eyelash, but they're assholes who generally don't give a shit about the consequences of their actions

It seems to me like this would be the kind of thing that would throw Steve Rogers into the kinda deep despair that made Spider-Man forge a deal with the devil.

I dunno, that seems like the only interesting thing that might come out of this. But maybe that's a little too Astro City for 2017 Marvel "Continuity Shmontinuity" Comics

>>90919833
Otto doesn't get to be part of the Inner Circle. Steve knows he's just an opportunist that isn't really loyal to Hydra's cause. He'll let him take down Spider-Man and Parker Industries but won't let him gain too much power.
A better question is where are Hive and Arnim Zola at.

>>90920067
miles is gonna kill him

>>90919745
Where's Hive?

>>90919745
Who is the guy above Madame Hydra in the kimono?

Why is Colonel Sanders there
Why do they give Cap that shitty retro shield, pretty much limits it to being used as.....well, a shield, rather than a cool offensive weapon that can be thrown and bounce off shit

>>90920305
Gorgon

>>90920322
He can stab people with the point

>>90919745
I wonder who the Kraken is here?

>>90919923
Technically it was Jake Fury the whole time

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>>90920067
Zemo will save him with the power of love

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>>90920305
The Gorgon, Grandmaster of the Hand.
He's a formidable fighter with super-speed and a god-killer sword. He also has the hax mutant power to turn people into stone by looking at them.

Madame Hydra is my evilfu

>>90919745

So basically Hickman's Hydra line-up but Cap and Fautus added minus Stryker then stupid sexy Zemo replacing stupid sexy Viper. Got it.

>>90920322
Someone's got to feed all of those hungry Hydra boys, and the colonel has enough clout and the secret of those 7 herbs and spices that Cap had to give him a seat at the skulltopus table.

>>90920472
Which one?

>>90920473
>Stryker
You mean Strucker?

>>90920606

Dammit I have X-Men on the mind. Yes. Strucker.

>>90920322

It can split in half and the bottom part is like a really big dagger

>>90920305

Gorgon, HYDRA samurai dude

>>90920322
>rather than a cool offensive weapon
It can split in half for duel wielding, is edged for cutting things, the front half can be launched out of the back half like a projectile/disk launcher, and the tip has a laser edge for lightsaber action.

It's pretty offensive.

>>90920067
Steve has no problem jumping to his death and the only time we seen him commit suicide is when he was in a Mind bubble induced dream (and the only way to get out of one was to kill yourself) and he just fucking jumps off a building like nothing even if it fell really real to him.

Hydra Cap had no qualms about dying, he I could see committing suicide to avoid capture and he would gladly die without any second thoughts if it furthers Hydra's goal.

Regular Cap though? I can't see him willingly dying unless he knows he's in a dream or if it's the only way to save another person's life. When Bucky recuperated his memories after the whole Winter Soldier thing people thought he had killed himself when he disappeared with the cube but Steve mentions that Bucky wasn't the kind of person who just gives up no matter how fucked up things are and I like to think Steve who is now in a similar situation.

Not to mention Steve would probably think dying would be too good for him and that he deserves worse for what he did.

He would definitely go into a deep despair and probably either turn himself in and let Justice handle him (and knowing Hill or any opportunistic Government hire up they wouldn't let him rot in a cell and just use him like they do other villains with the Government Tbolts)

Or he will exile himself into the middle of nowhere away from civilization and lose himself from everyone, that's what Ultimate Cap did after Spider-Man died.

>>90920151
Miles is just going to find him impaled, no way will Bendis let them taint Miles as a murderer.

>>90920447
That's what I'm looking forward to the most, how will Helmut handle the fall of what he and Steve build and Kobik restoring Steve's memory.

Will he think Kobik fucked with who he considers to be the real Steve? Also how strange will their relationship be now that there's love in it? I mean Steve will still remember what Hydra Cap does.

>>90920606
you mean cucker?

cuz gorgon plowed his 900 year old sugar momma

>>90920847
You could tell that Mark Millar really hated Strucker with how pathetic he portrayed him as.

>>90920781

>That's what I'm looking forward to the most, how will Helmut handle the fall of what he and Steve build and Kobik restoring Steve's memory.

The part that I find interesting about this entire thing is that Zemo seems less fixated on or loyal to Hydra (beyond a general sense of purpose/belonging he has been missing) and way more fixated on and loyal to Steve.

People speculated about him turning on Steve but in light of the line-up of that Hydra council and the vision of Steve dying is making me wonder if instead Helmut may end up turning on Hydra for letting Steve die to advance their cause.

anyone see the spoilers? it's been retconned that the nazis won ww 2 until the allies used a cosmic cube to undo that, and then hydra killed the allies. steve is a sleeper agent trying to undo the undo

>>90921441

Nope, where were they posted?

>>90921473
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/21/as-secret-empire-0-full-previews-get-sent-to-retailers-one-big-marvel-universe-spoiler/

As it is revealed that the Marvel Universe naturally has Hydra at its head. That it was only the Allies using the Cosmic Cube that saw them change reality so that the Allies won and not Hitler.

It’s a rather wonderful take on the classic “what if” trope, “What if Hitler won the war?”. Secret Empire has it that he did win. And Hydra ran his coattails. That the Marvel Universe is just “what if Hitler didn’t win the war”?

And so the Captain America of then is hidden in a spiritual fashion, sleeping, ready to emerge when Kobik woill one day remake Captain America and make what happens in the past possible, and then restoring him with all his memories of both versions of himself, but now, and forever, the Hydra version of Captain America. The snake eats its own tail. Cause and effect and reversed. And a perfect loop is drawn.

What happens now is yours to discover. But damn, I thought that was good.

>>90921542
I would have spoilered this but it's so fucking stupid everyone needs to see it

>>90921441
Actually knowing rich johson has bad reading skills...

The allies used the cube to try to win and did. But they would had anyways without it. So marvel undoes it, and sift reboots the marvel universe for generations.

>>90921542

That pretty cheerfully undermines the entire 'Hydra are totally not nazis' stick.

>>90921441
So he's basically saying "Hitler did literary nothing wrong, it was all the cosmic cube". Spencer is going to get soooooo much shit in twitter for that. As if the Nazi sympathizer accusations weren't bad enough now.

>>90921557
>>90921441
>>90921542
Just because Steve genuinely believes that the Hydra world is the "real world" doesn't mean that's actually true.

>>90921602
*literally, damn my eyes

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>>90921350
At first the way he was being secretive around Selvig I thought he was preparing to turn on Steve but then if that was the case Helmut wouldn't have been so obvious about it (he just wants to surprise him with an army of villains to help their cause).

Also the speech he gives to Bob about love and how said love was driving him it kind of sealed the deal that he does believe in Steve and cares about him.

But yeah Helmut is going to be furious and hurt when Steve kicks it.

>>90921542
What's the big deal?

Korbik made Cap think that the Allies used the Cosmic cube to alter reality, and that he's the only one with memories of what actually happened. So now he wants to get Korbik to set things 'straight'.

What's wrong with that?

>>90921602

Technically it's Kobik going "Hitler did nothing wrong". Although yeah, Spencer is gonna get shit for this.

>>90921699
No rich thinks htler verse is the real verse.

I bet neither are. And marvel soft reboots.

>>90921602
>>90921727
>"Hitler did literary nothing wrong, it was all the cosmic cube".
You're jumping to conclusions. You didn't actually read the book.
I'm pretty sure that Hitler winning and Hydra taking over the world will NOT be portrayed as being a good thing. Hydra is still fascist and pretty evil.

>>90921699
no she altered reality so hydra did win then lost due to the cube, and made steve a sleeper agent. she didn't just change steve's memories, zemo "remembers too"

>>90921786
Nope.

>>90921819
yep.

>>90921786
Yeah that is going to piss off a lot of people.

>>90921840
No you retard.

>>90921786
Zemo do not remember, he is just so miserable that he tagged along with Steve.

>>90921873
zemo shares the memories with cap. she didn't just change cap.

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any good stories with Hydra presented as a serious threat?

>>90921887

He doesn't. Spencer confirmed that he is choosing to believe Steve because he is a such a low-point but that Zemo's own memories haven't changed.

>>90921786
>>90921746

That sounds like you're both jumping to conclusions. There's nothing to suggest that from what's been made public.

Also, there's nothing to say that Zemo isn't just going along with Cap for some other ulterior motive.

Spencer has said before that he writes Zemo as a guy who hit rock bottom. Working with Cap is his way of getting back on top,

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>>90921895
Hickman's Secret Warriors is the first to spring to mind.

>>90921887
We got 5 different takes on what rich is saying. Rich is saying the reality hitler won is the true one.

I just think he cant read, he always had reading errors.

Wjat really happemed was the allies used the cube to win the war faster. But they didnt need it.

Now they got to undo it, giving marvel a soft reboot for generations.

Ryan Higgins, the "Marvel hating retailer" said Secret Empire #1 is decent.

Had a much better idea for an "evil cap" story than this low level brainwashing bullshit.

>>90921974
Care to share it with the class?

>>90920067
>>90920781
Didn't we recent find out that Steve has the memories from Kobiks time shenanigans and his regular memories? Steve should suffer from a hard case of Schizophrenia

>>90922016
Not really. No voices, one mind.

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>tfw actually really enjoying the Superior Cap storyline
>tfw seeing tumblr lose its collective shit makes it even better
Haven't been reading much Marvel in the last couple of years, but god this is endlessly entertaining. Both the comic and the reactions from the "fandom".

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>>90921441
>>90921542
This is stupid

This is really fucking stupid

This is an whole new level of stupid

Bravo Marvel

>>90922123
Too bad enjoy it.

>>90921940
Oh please Secret Warriors started this whole "Hydra has infiltrated everything" crap that we have seen over the past couple of years
>>90922037
You don't need to hear voices to have Schizophrenia, but seeing how he has memories from two different realities that should make it very hard for him to tell what's real and what's not.

Schizophrenia is characterized failure to understand what is real

>>90921542

So, Kobik rewrites reality so that Hydra + Nazi Germany actually wins the war but then the Allies in Kobikverse used a cosmic cube to change reality to so that they won the war and the Marvel universe went on as usual, and jfc this is confusing.

>>90922226
Nope.

Hitler wasnt to be defeated with the cube.

>>90921990
Meh.

Steve starts using more and more shield tech, realizes he can be a better hero/soldier if he trains his mind.

Taps into the full potential of human intelligence rivaling Reed and Stark, eventually building technological additions to his suit that are beyond any Stark armour, the whole time his views on super heroes and villains becoming more twisted (or clearer).

Starts killing off villains while maintaining his public persona, Illuminati reform and find out it's him but not before he kills a hero (Someone like Black Widow or War Machine).

Basic bust ups with him using tactics, tech and over-skill to beat down other heroes one on one and your average multi page spread featuring him taking on a bunch of people at once.

Gets badly wounded but kills another hero still, begs Charles (I know he's dead, could even be Red Skull if you want a twist in there) to wipe his mind back to how he was when he first came out of the ice.

>>90922275

Did you get to read the SE#0? So Nazi Germany would have lost anyway but the Allies used the cube just to be sure?

>>90922292
Oh and he stops wearing the suit for a while, just dressing low-key with his armor underneath.

>>90922292
That's not better at all. You fucking lied, you hack.

>>90922334
Yes.

It's omd for the marvel universe.

>>90922378
Well you read it until the end and thats more people than those that will finish secret empire.

>>90922380

Oh god this is confusing.

>>90922453
What? That's not true at all. Even if it sells like shit SE will still sell thousands of copies by the time its ending. Your shitty pitch will be read by like 30 people before being lost in oblivion since you're never going to become a real comic book writer.

>>90922498
Not really. It does explain generations and rich saying post s e, a classic looking marvel.

>>90922503
>you're never going to become a real comic book writer
That's right, i'm going to be a fake comic book writer.

Retard.

>>90921786
>>90921887

No he doesn't even Steve acknowledges that Helmut doesn't remember anything that Steve does, he even tells him "I don't know what they did to you!"

Helmut is just with Steve because he's in a funk and Steve is giving him the best outcome to his current pathetically miserable predicament.

Also Steve is his enemy husbando whom he has always been tsundere for because of complicated shit involving daddy issues, Steve leading to Heinrich's death, Steve not noticing him, Steve giving Bucky a second chance to redeem himself and not him (which is a big fat lie since Steve has given Helmut many chances), Steve letting Bucky become Cap, Steve ruining his plans and not being the person he wants.

Of course now that Steve is everything that he wants and Steve is willing to help him out and they can both do villain shit he's happy.

But he doesn't remember what Steve tells that their life was like, he wants to believe in it though especially since Steve tells him that Heinrich was a loving father towards him and that just fixes a lot of Helmut's daddy issues.

>>90921542
>Marvel continuity naturally has the Nazis win WWII
Makes sense, given how much of a shithole the place is.

>>90922016
He still thinks he's Captain Hydra and the Captain Hydra memories is what he feels is real to him.

He has memories of the regular Cap but he disassociates from them and feels like they are foreign to him, if anything he thinks regular Cap was cosmic cube fuckery.

>>90922692
Marvel is dc's old earth x.

>>90922527

So to summarize:
1. Kobik rewrites reality so that Steve has always been a member of Hydra.
2. To keep the loop/time-line stable she has the Allies use a cosmic cube to win WW2 even though they would have won without it.
3. So technically the current "real" Marvel universe was rewritten into being a fake one
4. To unfuck the entire thing you'd basically need someone who knows the two key points of a) Steve being a Hydra agent and b) the Allies using the cosmic cube

Which would have to be someone with full knowledge of Hydra Cap's past.

>>90922201
Not him but I think it's stupid too and I'm enjoying it immensely especially since the plot is interesting and I want to see how this ends.

It's also way better than Civil War II at least, that shit was just pain and a waste of time.

>>90922757
>Which would have to be someone with full knowledge of Hydra Cap's past.
Like say, Kobik herself?

>>90922757
Bucky is going to WW2 in Thunderbolts, prolly the Kobik version.

>>90922573
lmao so salty
keep thinking your fan fiction is better than Marlel's comics though, you're hilarious

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>>90919745
And let's not forget that Pymtron is somehow involved in all this.

Why is there a Viking Robocop?

>>90922735
Sounds like Schizophrenia

>>90922757
Yes. But techinally neither are the real one.

The real one is the one with no cosmic cube altering. Meaning we haven't been in the real marvel universe so far.

>>90922789
>>90922796

Kobik, Bucky or possibly Zemo depending on what else Steve is gonna tell him.

>>90922757
>Which would have to be someone with full knowledge of Hydra Cap's past.

Only person that comes to mind is Sinclair/Madame Hydra but she would never do that.

The other person who can do this, and I think it's going to be the person who makes Kobik change Steve back to normal, is Spencer's new Quasar Avril Kincaid.

She's going to be the person who solves this whole thing especially since she has a pretty powerful Cosmic Awareness and those with Cosmic Awareness can sense when someone fucks with the universe.

>>90922827
Reed and his family are slacking

>>90922808
lol nobody is salty, you just need to stop sucking dick.

As does Marvel since most people could come up with something better than what Marvel is putting out right now.

>>90922808
>Marlel
That's accurate.

>>90922824
Don't you question reality with schizophrenia though? HydraCap thinks his reality is the real one and feels the other Cap is the fake one, he's not questioning anything and he doesn't feel like there's two of him nor does he feel withdrawn from reality.

Honestly at the of the day it's just weird comic book shit so I don't think a real medical case should be applied to it.

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>>90922938

>>90922892
The part that I am unsure about is whether Kobik is gonna make it out of the Tbolts book alive. Or Bucky for that matter.

>>90922292
This is fucking worse.

>>90923045
In what way exactly? I don't think it's bad.

>>90923016
They already killed Bucky (like twice, lol) so I doubt they will go for a third one plus he's popular now.

Kobik is needed to unfuck the universe so I doubt she will die, at worse she goes back to being a regular cube without sentience.

>>90923002
From wikipedia
>Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real
He still feels like, and he has feelings for it.

>>90923123
Not the guy you're arguing with, but it's different considering both are actual realities in that sense.

>>90923166
Yes for now he can tell that one of them is real, but for how much longer

>>90920754
its pretty gay too

>>90923123
But technically both realities are real because of Cosmic cube and he thinks Hydra Cap is real which might as well be because of Cosmic cube fuckery.

He's also not questioning anything.

>>90923212
That's what I'm saying though. The cube timeline is non-canon but it's still real.

>>90923295
>>90923325
Well I say that he will have Schizophrenia and I'm sticking with it

Layala Miller, Kobik, Ullysses...is there a bullshit factory that produces these Living Plot Devices?

>>90922817
>>90919745
>Captain Hydra
>Baron Zemo and the Masters of Evil
>Madame Hydra
>Gorgon and The Hand
>Kraken
>Dr. Faustus
>Baron Mordo
>The Chitauri
>Pymtron
>Superior Octopus
>Arnim Zola
After so much hero vs hero, it's good to see an event with lots of bad guys.

>>90921542
This is stupid as hell.

>>90923355
And two of those were made by Bendis, but in Miller's case PAD made her interesting.

Kobik was OK under Spencer but the Tbolts writer made her annoying with her Buckeroo shit.

>>90921542
sooooo, the holocaust didn't happen?

>>90923471
No? it's just that the nazis won

>>90921542
I think that Rich might have gotten it wrong. Kobik rewrote reality to make the allies alter the outcome of the war via reality warping, which is how steve rationalizes having memories of being a hero (the true reality, which Steve believes is a product of allies meddling, said meddling having been caused by Kobik altering the past) and a hydra double agent (the reality that kobik created, which Steve believes is the true reality, that was lost when the allies used the cube).

I think I'd need a graph to make my point clear.

>>90923471
How the fuck did you get that? It just says that the Nazis won.

But if you spread on tumblr that Spencer denied the holocaust happening in his comic they will believe you.

>>90923696

Did you read the #0 and if so, do you have a way to prove it?

>>90923434
Who else is rooting for the 'villains'?
With how uninteresting the Marvel universe became, it's no wonder I want them to win

>>90924042
Yeah me too.