.

>>90912556

is captain america pro trump?

>>90914673
Pro everyone

>>90914799
Pro Life?

>>90914673
The problem with that speech is it can be utilized either way.
>everyone thinks gays should be shunned from society
"No, YOU move"
>everyone thinks religion is a farce and can't have a place with modernity
"No, YOU move."

It's kind of beautiful, in a dark way. American sentiments are all over the place but solely because every viewpoint is (usually) up for equal scrutiny

>>90912556
He's right, right and wrong are not a matter of popular opinion.

>>90912556
literally /ourguy/ libtards and jews btfo

>>90912556
I don't wanna be that guy but this is essentially Hitler's mentality during the holocaust.

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>>90912556

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>>90914673
>>90914829
>>90914882
>>90915064
What on Earth are you people even talking about? It's about standing up for your beliefs if they are what's right, regardless of what the majority might think. It's a lot broader than your country's obsession with injecting its politics into everything.

>>90915064
Alright people, you heard anon. Stop standing up for your ideas.

>>90914808
Pro american freedom.

Right and wrong is relative though.

>>90915274
*current politics
Best to clear that up to avoid confusion.

>>90912556
>I can't change their mind. I won't change my mind, because I don't have to. Because I'm an American. I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in, and I'll never change.

>>90915274
The problem is that it's an argument could be used to justify literally anything.

I don't see why everyone brings this up as some sort of 'dude Captain America is ignorant and this passage isn't actually that meaningful'

This literally just boils down to "stand by what you believe in." Yes that can apply to fucking Nazis but that equally applies to the Allies. That applies to literally fucking everything.

>>90915405
Which makes the speech meaningless.

>>90915353
>>90915460
>>90915380


Retarded sjw fags.

>>90915380
>>90915405
Speeches about freedom are the patriotic equivalent of the "just be yourself" moral.

>>90915569
SJWs would believe in this speech, too. It's literally "I'm right you're wrong lalalalala I'm not listening!"

>>90915569
>>90915586

If everyone stands up for what they believe, you're going to have literally billions of sides. I'm all for individual freedoms, but when it comes to fighting to ensure those freedoms are preserved, things go to shit extremely fast. There's no such thing as an "objective" viewpoint because objectivity is a matter of current social and economic trends.

It used to be an "objective" fact that blacks are inherently inferior to other races. It used to be an "objective" fact that God is the ultimate moral authority (so go kill those heathens!).

Cap's speech, while elegant and poignant, ultimately falls apart with scrutiny because its arguing for you to stand your ground on ground that doesn't really exist

>>90915569
You're an idiot. And I voted for and defend trump to this day.

this speech is nothing more than "you're wrong, I'm right."

>>90915795
Maybe they really are wrong. Maybe he really is right.

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>>90912556


This is terrible, steve is humble and not an absolute retard. Terrible and chauvinistic version of the character

>>90915569
You are a retard

>>90916429
>Maybe
there's your problem.

And generally most things aren't so black and white in the world.

>>90916786
All you have is "maybe" he's wrong. You don't know what he's referring to.

>>90916584
>not mentioning antarctica
fake news.

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>>90915405
>>90915460
Heroes are not usually intellectuals or philosophers.

Just FYI, that quote is part of a larger speech by Mark Twain:

In a Republic, who is the country?

Is it the Goverment?
Why the Government is merely a temporary servant; It cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not to originate them.

Who then is the country? Is it the newspaper? Is it the pulpit? Why these are mere parts of the country, not the whole of it; they have not command; they only have their little share in command

In a monarchy, the king and his family are the country; in a Republic, it is the common voice of the people. Each of you, for himself or herself, by himself or herself, and on his or her own responsibility, must speak. It is a solemn and weighty responsibility and not lightly to be flung aside at the bullying of pulpit, press, government or politician. Each must decide for himself or herself alone what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn’t. You cannot shirk this and be a man, to decide it against your convictions is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor. It is traitorous both against yourself and your country.

Let men label you as they may, if you alone of all the nation decide one way, and that way be the right way by your convictions of the right, you have done your duty by yourself and by your country, hold up your head for you have nothing to be ashamed of.

It doesn’t matter what the press says. It doesn’t matter what the politicians or the mobs say. It doesnn’t matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. Republics are founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe in. no matter the odds or consequences.

When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move. Your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world:
“No, you move.”

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Stand by your beliefs no matter what chum!Hail hydra!Down with democracy!

>>90915750
This sort of ties into something I've noticed that's been bothering me more and more lately: No one talks about why democracy and pluralism are important anymore. Sure, there are the usual platitudes, but there are no more works where such a system is demonstrated as working and desirable.

One of my favorite things while reading guys like Arthur C. Clarke or Tolkien, or watching Star Trek was that when a problem emerged the heroes would sit down and deliberate, air grievances, acknowledge dissent and hammer out a course of action together. It was a small scale demonstration of democracy in action, and I always found it pretty important to the feel of the work. That doesn't seem to exist anymore, now it's always one dude against the world, and those opposing him are always corrupt, ignorant or plain evil. I think nobody but Grant Morrison still writes stories where heroes act like professionals and actually agree on shit.

I think that's what makes the quote in the OP so sinister in modern light. The implicit feeling that opposing viewpoints would be acknowledged and considered before moving on to such a step isn't there anymore.

You could probably write a pretty good thesis on the link between the rise of partisanship in the US and abandonment of the democratic principles in its media.

>>90915624
>>90915795
>>90916584


Retarded sjws fags part 2.

how do people in this thread not understand that the speech is intentionally vague so both republicans and democrats can enjoy it? I wish more comics were like that instead of being blatant about their writer's agenda

>>90917358
I'm currently studying the Spanish Civil War, and there's a lot surrounding how both the Left and Right felt Democracy failed because the other side won.

In Homage to Catalonia Orwell even talks about how blatant misinformation and libel will only screw over any cause.

Considering how the basic sequence goes an unpopular Right leaning leader is replaced by the Left in a wave of optimism, before the depression and other factors lead to working class disillusionment, with a reactionary Right government getting into power, I'm getting the sense history is repeating.

>>90917463
It's the context that's awful,Cap is telling Spidey that his side in civil war is completely right and tony,Reeds super math,The is government and every other hero who registered is wrong.Its pigheaded for cap ad worse still,The event ends with cap ADMITTING guilt and giving up,so much for the "no you move" mentality.Its dumb,out of character and inconsistent with caps actions in the event

>>90917463
No you idiot. It makes steve into a chauvinist retard. is not about dms or rps

>>90917463
It's not so much vague as everything else is irrelevant.

>>90917565
Obama was right wing tho

>>90917565
>>90917578
>>90917581


Retards

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>>90917380
>>90917624

>>90917666

He is a kid.

>>90917358
This is something I hadn't considered before, I appreciate you writing this.

>>90915380
First of all there is no "problem", you're creating one out of boredom.
Secondly the same could be said of almost anything when outside of its context, so I guess instead of gaining any form of comprehension we should just censor all language, right?

>>90917907
>Secondly the same could be said of almost anything when outside of its contex


t.murrika #1

>>90917666
Non-argument is "Steve is wrong because I say so."

>>90916584
Nah it's pretty spot on. Steve would never tolerate just bending over and taking mob rule or some random politician up the butthole because it's what everyone else was doing.

>>90918030

But other anons have already addressed why it is so stupid. But apparently, arguing that makes you a sjw retard.

>>90915750
>If everyone stands up for what they believe, you're going to have literally billions of sides.

That's a good thing numbnuts.

>>90918283
You don't have logic. You are seeing your biased subjective truth as objective right.

That's not even liberal, you must be a commie.

You guys are retarded. The speech is about standing up for what you believe in, no matter who you are or what your beliefs are. If someone believes something is wrong, whether they're morally correct or not, they deserve to have to right to be able to stand up for what they believe. And anyone who tries to shut them down or stop them from speaking should be told to take a hike.

>>90918362
I think context also helps, who was he talking too?

>>90917907
What the hell are you on about?

The point I was making is that the speech is so broad that's it's completely meaningless.

>>90918325

I didn't have an argument. I was just pointing out other people already argued the point already. But for the sake of it, I'll put it in simple terms so even kids can understand it.


>It doesn't matter what anybody says you should keep telling everyone you are right

Shouldn't you try to see why other people have different views from you? For example, US liberals have a trouble understanding why poor people voted Trump, so they are the ones keep saying they are right and the other side is stupid. They are saying 'No, YOU change' Instead of trying to see their point of view and change accordingly. You cannot expect others to change their views to accommodate you, unless you support armed revolutions, comrade.

>>90918577
That's not the point. The point is to not let them get to you and fight for your beliefs.

Not to try changing their mind.

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>>90918435
>The point I was making is that the speech is so broad that's it's completely meaningless.
That critique itself is meaningless. You've chosen to remove the context of what the speech is about and then claim it's vague.

>>90917953
I hope you're not implying it takes much.
>It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, all that matters is what makes you happy. Just be yourself.
Could be seen as heartwarming and inspiring said to a kid dealing with peer pressure, and questionable said to a child predator before he goes for his nightly stroll.

But I guess since some idiots might intentionally reinterpret an out of context panel to shitpost on 4chan no one should ever write or say anything to encourage anyone in case it gets misconstrued.

I find it funny Cap and America should take jabs about speaking freely if it accidentally gets misunderstood from people actually justifying thought policing.

I just wonder who could possibly be behind such an idea.

>>90915244
salsa pls?

>>90918639
>You've chosen to remove the context of what the speech is about and then claim it's vague.
The speech is vague because what he's saying has no more connection to the situation at hand than any situation possible.

It's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing other than "I hold beliefs".

>>90918639
I'm saying it's chauvinistic.

>>90918630
But that's a pretty shit thing to say when you're the hero the objectively the greatest influence over the community and are literally involved in a war with other heroes.

Captain America in this context isn't the small solitary man who must stand firm lest he be swept over by the tide of popular opinion, he, in part, is the tide.

The quote is good. Its use is remarkably tone deaf.

>>90917299
so steve is an unoriginal retard parroting some homosexual. got you. marvel needs a purge.

>>90918839
KEK

>>90918811
Nothing you said made sense.

>>90918423
Spider-Man.

>>90912556
The problem with this speech is that Cap says it as he's being pushed out because Maria Hill and SHIELD said "No, you move."

>>90918910
There's a point where that quote can be applied and a type of individual it can be applied to. Captain America in Civil War isn't it.

>>90918768
>It's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing other than "I hold beliefs" yes and the question he was answering was "why don't you just roll over?"
Though to be fair the full context of the speech is don't let yourself be straight up bullied into changing what you believe.
>>90918805
Isn't Cap literally a good guy chauvinist? He's constantly willing to die for the brand of patriotism he believes in. How is that not extreme support to a cause? And it's still not a bad thing even since he's y'know the good guy
>>90919037
Cap is still his own individual man, of course it applies to him still. He doesn't lose his personhood just because he happens to be influential.
>>90918978
But she was making moves.

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>>90919037
>The entire media, masses, military, politicians and secret skrull insurgency are pursuing the violent manhunt and illegal indefinite interdimensional incarceration of any and every vigilante who does not fall in line, chief among them Steve Rogers

>Captain America in Civil War isn't it.
Well I guess since you've decided as such that must be the case.

>>90915274
But what is right?

Most people think they are right. If they actually are then its well and good, but if they aren't then this type of advice is obstructive.

>>90918738
Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe. It's a silly comic but it is refreshing to see characters getting Franked since 90% of Marvel heroes are sanctimonious retards.

>>90919693
And he isn't?

>>90919529
You just asked yourself what's right. We don't know what's right.
In a sense obstruction is the goal of democracies, it's best to have a system that allows all ideas to be aired rather than one that only allows for a single. Because while one may give retards a stage and let them get in the way, if a retard should ever get the stage in the other they'd be allowed to progress completely unimpeded.
>>90919734
Well in the end he Franks himself so....

>>90920349
So go on about how America or Europe or anywhere would be great if we could just get rid of those whatevers you hate today because some demiurge said so.

Because the only thing that keeps any nation from being great is the people who are willing to do anything because they are afraid.

>>90920465
But that's how we beat Hitler.

>>90920559
and the gooks.

>>90920465
>the only thing that keeps any nation from being great is the people who are willing to do anything
You're right we should all just sit around and do nothing.

Good goyim.

>>90915274
>It's about standing up for your beliefs if they are what's right
you do realize how retarded that sounds, right?
there are literally no people who think their beliefs are NOT what's right.

>>90920955
Do anything because they are afraid. Read what is written, not what you want to see.

>>90921037
But there are tons of people who cave like little bitches because the most trivial of reasons.