Identity Crisis

Don't you remember that dumb deathstroke fight.

>>90720315
How come flash could get impaled and then be totally fine as soon as the fight is over?

>>90720448
How does a man running near light speed willingly run into a sword

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>>90720471
He's had worse moments.

>>90720236
>Grant Morrison
>Great writer

Son.

>>90720315

That's it? IC gets a bad rap because of one fight? Let's just go ahead and ignore the brilliance of the rest of the comic...Vindictive fucking fanboys, I swear.

>>90720522
banana peels border into cartoon physics which is a power beyond the speed force

>>90720536
It's not just the fight. The reveal was also really fucking stupid.

Who the fuck just happens to be carrying around a flamethrower, just in case?

>>90720236
>"The first time I read it I was kind of outraged. I thought this was just… why? What the fuck is this, really? It wasn’t even normal. It was outrageous. It was preposterous because of the Elongated Man with his arms wrapped several times around the corpse of his wife. I thought something is broken here. Something has gone so wrong in this image."
>"It's hard for me to believe that a shy bespectacled college graduate like Brad Meltzer who's a novelist and a father is a really setting out to be weirdly misogynistic. But unfortunately when you're looking at this beloved character who's obviously been ass-raped on the Justice League satellite, even saying it kind of takes you to that dot dot dot where you don't know what else to say."

You're right OP, Grant just loved it!

>>90720236
Same reason people hated Cry for Justice. Overpowering a villain out of no where.

>>90720536
the reveal also made no sense and was probably added last minute

>>90720536
>brilliance
the central mystery was FUCKING RETARDED

>>90720667
>Prometheus
>overpowering out of nowhere
I'm pretty sure he took out the entire Justice League including Superman and Batman by himself in his first appearance

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>>90720236
>It was the most emotionally poignant mainstream superhero event of all time.

>>90720536
I haven't read it entirely (just some/most of the first issue to read along with an archived SOP) but common complaints I've heard usually involve characters being ruined (Dr. Light being a rapist, Tim Drake's father getting killed off, Elongated Man's wife getting raped and later fridged, etc.) along with the mystery not making sense (I think the reveal got changed) and the Deathstroke fight.

>>90720236
>it was a great mystery that took everyone by surprise
it took everyone by surprise because literally every clue was a red herring and the killer was someone who couldn't have been there and had zero reason to do it

>>90720236
>It was the most emotionally poignant mainstream superhero event of all time. It was a great mystery that took everyone by surprise. Meltzer bravely dared to raise questions of real-world consequences of superheroism. Meltzer's characterizations and interactions were almost perfect...Grant Morrison and every other great writer loved it, and so should you.
Gb2work, Brad.

I assume you also added the paragraph with your life story to the Identity Crisis wiki page, along with all the other pretentious masturbatory shit that I see has been wisely pruned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Identity_Crisis_%28DC_Comics%29&type=revision&diff=769516220&oldid=763536072

So tell me Brad, assuming it's you because who the fuck else would be your #1 Fan, how DOES one suck one's own penis? Does it involve dislocating your jaw?

>>90720701

You got an argument, or is greentexting all you're capable of? Nobody gave a shit about Ralph or Sue Dibny before Meltzer pulled our heartstrings in Identity Crisis. Also Batman and Robin racing to Robin's dad as he was being killed by Captain Boomerang was so agonizingly tense and emotional...it should be praised, not derided, which is why critics and creators loved it.

>>90720744
this, fucking ray is giving the stink eye in the penultimate issue only for the final issue to start hey it's jean

>>90720791
I think you need to remove your bottom two ribs

>>90720791
>see the page was edited 4 days ago
He probably just noticed and started this thread to soothe his butthurt.

>>90720800
>Nobody gave a shit about Ralph or Sue Dibny
how to spot a fucking casual

>>90720800
Hey there OP! I'm this guy >>90720632 , please reply to my post, and find another "creator" praising IC.

>>90720800

Haha what the fuck.

>>90720536
That's it? George gets a bad rap because of one bad war and a devastated economy? Let's just go ahead and ignore the brilliance of the rest of his presidency...Vindictive fucking democrats, I swear

>>90720632

That quote is out-of-context. He praised Meltzer highly in his book Supergods.

I doubt any of these people read IC if they think people hate it because of the Deathstroke fight kek.

People who don't like IC is because they don't like how the characters were portrayed. And these had lasting effects in the comics for a while.

>>90720860
...and then explained how his praise was towards Meltzer the pulp writer, and not IC, on this followup interview.

>>90720236
god, even Didio and Co realized how stupid it is and regularly mocks it every time they can. I mean fuck if fucking Future's End can spout how stupid it is to brainwash your villains that's a new low right there

>>90720800
Do you even realize how fucking broken your argument is? It's hinged entirely on subjective experience. A lot of people DID care about the Dibnys before they were killed off, and insisting that somehow "pulled their heartstrings" or that such and such a sequence was "so agonizingly tense and emotional" betrays a personal bias toward the work that eliminates any objectivity, and therefore, any hope you'll convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

"It's good, so you should like it. It's good because I like it. You should like it because it's good."

Either you're a troll, or >>90720791
is right, and Meltzer is such an insecure egomaniac he needs his cock sucked online.

>>90720870

Great comics usually have lasting effects. That's a good thing. And Meltzer's characterizations were incredibly accurate. He's godly at character work, if nothing else. I mean look at his JLA and you can see that. Idk why people would ever complain about that.

>>90720632
Here's the full quote with sources
>You were very kind to Brad Meltzer’s Identity Crisis in Supergods.

I was trying to be kind because I like Brad Meltzer. He's a nice guy. I have a lot of interesting conversations with him so I tried to focus on what I thought was good about it and there was actually quite a lot when I read it again. The first time I read it I was kind of outraged. I thought this was just… why? What the fuck is this, really? It wasn't even normal. It was outrageous. It was preposterous because of the Elongated Man with his arms wrapped several times around the corpse of his wife. I thought something is broken here. Something has gone so wrong in this image.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/grant-morrison-on-the-death-of-comics-20110822

I'm still cheesed the new 52 didn't at least do anything of value with Ralph and Sue.

I liked it a lot. That shit was heartbreaking.

>>90720928
>Accurate
>Jean Loring
>The chick who regularly cheated on Ray
>Is the one who went all out on trying to get Ray back
Yeah no

>>90720928
Anon, the team of Doc Magnus, Mister Miracle, and fucking Batman was outsmarted by Jean fucking Loring in an Atom suit she has barely any practice with. Are you shitting me?

>>90720964

>one example

Bahahahahahaha yeah ok....EVENT RUINED. How dare an insane character do something illogical?

>>90720522
>>90720596

Holy shit, why is this the best thing? I want a Justice League Kart now with atomic banana peels that make you fly into space.

Identity Crisis is 13 years old... just because it was considered good back then doesn't mean it holds up. And in retrospect it is pretty bad.

>>90720860
>the solution to Meltzer's murder mystery when it finally came was bizarre and a little anticlimactic
he basically says it's important for signalling a definitive end to the period of nostalgia fueled-comics brought on by his JLA, Kingdom Come, and Marvels

>>90720940
New52 Secret Six was very fun, but their storyline got axed with the title. At least Simone gave them a happy send off, instead of the usual Giffen treatment cancelled books get.

>>90720994
>it was only the entire central mystery that got ruined
>baka this niggerfaggot, amirite?

>>90720940
They were a major part of Secret Six.
It started stupid, but the writher fixed it in the end.

>>90721005
it was never good

>>90721005
>because it was considered good back then doesn't mean it holds up
But it wasn't even! It was so controversial that DC had to build up to Infinite Crisis/OYL with promises of getting away from "dark and gloomy" and back to their roots, despite having no actual intentions of editing books in that tonal direction, and that's been the watch-words for every DC reboot since. "THIS time, we really will go back to free-wheeling Silver Age style fun, honest!"
>fingers crossed for Rebirth
At least now they're under pressure from normies to de-emphasize the grimdarkness too, they thought for years that darker plots with heroes who hate each other would make for more CINEMATIC comic books to adapt, and now they're realizing that nobody wants that anymore.

>>90720315
The only dumb part was against GL

>>90720448
Flash also heals fast

>>90720471
flash is not always running at light speed. Being able to =/= doing it. Not only that, he couldn't see through the smoke.

>>90721028
It's like Long Halloween, if Long Halloween didn't have drop-dead gorgeous Tim Sale artwork and fan-favorite Bat-villains to prop it up.

>>90720994
it was literally the entire hook you fucking imbecile. I mean sure the killer being Ray would still be pretty bad, but seeing as how he's life was going from one shit stain and how he actually has mastery on the atom suit along with being a pretty good scientist, it was at least believable he could have outsmarted Batman and co.

>>90721005
It was never considered good. People read the shit out of it as it was coming out because of the hype and the mystery, but it was still controversial and plenty of people hated it even then. Even the people that were able to enjoy it were completely put off by the "are you fucking kidding me?!" tier reveal.

>>90721089

Fucking new 52 was a way to huge attemot to be that dark, brooding DC. And god every original idea from that era was total unmitigated shit.

>>90721144
take that back you nigger faggot, Rebirth's worst isn't as bad as the New 52's but it hasn't reached the heights it did.

>>90721124
That's-
Huh.
That's not entirely wrong.

>>90721144
>Superboy
>Kon-El
>'KON' IS THE KRYPTONIAN WORD FOR 'ABOMINATION' BECAUSE CLONES ARE AFFRONTS TO NATURE IN KRYPTONIAN CULTURE

>>90721173
>heights

Stop.

>>90721173
New 52 had heights?

>>90721017
>he basically says it's important for signalling a definitive end to the period of nostalgia fueled-comics brought on by his JLA, Kingdom Come, and Marvels
But it didn't! It just signalled that you could get away with nostalgia-comics that also recast old fan-favorite characters as GRITTY and DISTURBED and SECRETLY TRAGIC, which, I mean, it's fine for some characters, but The Atom, Elongated Man and the satellite era JLA by extension are not among them. That's basically the problem - Meltzer painted the entire JLA, and that specific era of the JLA, with a very broad, very grim brush, and it just didn't work. It's like in Cry for Justice, when The Atom was torturing somebody from inside their ear drum... any attempt to treat the size-shrinky nerdy guy as some kind of badass or tragic or dark figure is going to fail.

>>90721215
TBF, I'm pretty sure that clone lore is actually from Byrne's Krypton world-building, which was in turn basically updating the Silver Age idea that Jax-Ur (or was it Zod? One of them) had cloned an army of Bizarros to try and take over Krypton.

>>90721217
>>90721238
nothing in Rebirth's current library has anything as good as Morrison's AC, current WW is a step down from Azz WW, same with the Flash even as mediocre as the writing was at least it had Manabooch's art to save it current run doesn't even have that. Literally the only major improvements of Rebirth over New 52 launch is Superman, Teen Titans, and RHatO.

>>90721144
>>90721238
>Morrison Action
>Azz Wonder Woman
>Demon Knights
>Curse of Shazam
>JL3K
>All-Star Western
>Johns Aquaman
>Multiversity
>Earth 2 before it went to shit
>Vibe
>Larfleeze
>Infinity Man and the Forever people
>Animal Man
>Swamp Thing before Rotworld
>Sword of Sorcery
>D I A L H
>not to mention all the DCYou titles which were still part of the New 52
try reading comics

>>90721257
maybe not but that's what Morrison said it was in Supergods

>>90721315
Green Arrow is miles better than it ever was in New 52, and while Nightwing isn't better than Grayson, it's a fucksight better than the New 52 Nightwing series.

>>90721315
>>90721318

Jesus Christ you people have nothing.

>>90721238
>>90721217
On release alone, Action, Wonder Woman, All-Star Western, Batwoman, Batman Inc, Dial H, Animal Man and Swamp Thing are leagues above the best of Rebirth. And this is coming from someone that loves Rebirth, but Rebirth's strenght is a consistently good line.

>>90721314
The problem isn't the clone lore.
The problem is that they made Superboy's real name mean ABOMINATION OF THE HOUSE OF EL.
It's like making "J'onn J'onnz" be Martian for 'Shapeless Baby-Raping Horror of the Plains'.

>>90721367
>you people have nothing
besides all those good comics, you mean? And this is coming from a guy who likes Rebirth too

but we can all agree that it's all better than post-Crisis after 52

>>90721364
it was better than the Non-Lemire runs I'll give you that but nothing Percy has written is better than the Outsiders War
>LMAO CHILI!
Percy could write the entire book about Ollie talking about chili and you faggots will praise it like it's the best thing ever because Percy remembered that Ollie is really good at making chili

>>90721409
It really is, honestly the entire 00's were great for Marvel, but pretty much sucked for DC with a few high point exceptions. Post Final Crisis to Flashpoint was one of the worst stretched I've ever seen.

>>90721422
also because it maintains the good stuff from Lemire's run while ignoring the shitty bits and adding good stuff of its own

>>90721450
>the entire 00's were great for Marvel
if by "the entire 00's" you mean "the Marvel Knights period and then literally nothing else, you're correct, because BOY did Marvel turn into a shitshow after that

>>90721422
I don't know man, I like Lemire's run, hell, I love Lemire's run, but it's very much like Azzarello Wonder Woman, bland voice for the MC, great everything else.

>>90721450
>honestly the entire 00's were great for Marvel, but pretty much sucked for DC with a few high point exceptions

I disagree but share your few exceptions so I can add to the list.

Man, this thread.
Comics are a subjective medium guys, if you read something and don't like it that's fine, and if you do like it, that's fine too.
personally I like Identity Crisis, but then I also liked Shadowland so by /co/'s standards I have shit taste.

but I don't like either of them enough to spend an hour trying to convince people on the internet that they are either the best thing ever or complete shite. if I feel something is bad I will stop reading it, if I like something I might recommend it to people but I won't get mad if they don't like it

>>90721717
>personally I like Identity Crisis, but then I also liked Shadowland so by /co/'s standards I have shit taste.
by everyone's standards

IT was trying to be edgy and realistic, while making dumb as fuck story decisions like Deathstroke taking out the JL and Jean Loring poor motivations and out of control master mind plotting. It reads like a Millar book.

>>90720236
its NOT MUH: The event.

>>90722021

THANK YOU. The only reason people talk shit about the event is because it takes fanboys out of their comfort zone of "good guy punch bad guy, bad guy go away."

>>90722207
It's possible you may have vastly misinterpreted that comment.

>>90720937
>[Mark Millar] still lives in Glasgow, is there a chance of bumping into him?
>There's a very good chance of running into him, and I hope I'm going 100 miles an hour when it happens.
Savage.

Who the fuck just has a flame thrower with them "just incase" everything up to that I could tolerate.. but not that retarded reveal lol

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>>90726103
Identity Crisis is not a clever book.

>>90726361
Wow haha

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>>90720937
Based Grant.