What are your thought on the no-kill policy?

It can be frustrating in extreme cases like Batman where all anyone wants is for him to not go breaking a cops arm if they try to shoot Joker. It's endearing in cases like Spider-Man where he actually does hold back his powers.

I prefer No Kill to Kill All No Matter What ultimately.

>>90692935
The whole "no kill" policy is a mostly a matter of accountability. If Batman killed someone and dumped his dead body at the morgue with nothing but a note of "he was a bad guy trust me", then batman would have to be taken in. You can't have vigilantes killing people outside of the law. Everyone answers to a higher or equal power (theoretically) so if someone dies its supposed to be justified to the eyes of the people.

Even if everyone sees Batman getting shot at by some robbers at a bank Batman still really doesn't have the right when you consider he wasn't there in the first place and escalated the situation by violently entering it.

>>90692935
Killing is for edgy tryhards and Zimmermans.

I prefer heroes like Superman and Spider-Man that DON'T KILL and instead SAVE people.

/thread

>>90693374
>I prefer heroes like Superman and Spider-Man that DON'T KILL and instead SAVE people.
Unless they are aliens because they ain't human.

>>90692935
>"Being a hero is bullshit."
Kirkman might as well have fondled my gag reflex himself.

Anyway
An absolute No-Kill policy seems kind of overrated to me, if I'm being honest. For guys like Superman, it makes sense because it's a testament to such a powerful being's self-control and high regard for human life.
In cases like Batman's, though- if you're consistently going up against freaks like the Joker, it's probably wildly irresponsible to continue to leave him alive.

>>90693374
The fuck you talking about Spider-Man's killed before multiple times

>>90693294
>The whole "no vigilante" policy is a mostly a matter of accountability. If Batman broke someone's arm and dumped him at the hospital with nothing but a note of "he was a bad guy trust me", then batman would have to be taken in. You can't have vigilantes punching people outside of the law. Everyone answers to a higher or equal power (theoretically) so if someone gets hurt its supposed to be justified to the eyes of the people.

>>90693233

one of my favorite "recent" Spider-Man moments relating to this is in Punisher Warzone, when he finds out Frank used one of his devices (i think it was a web-line) to kill members of the exchange.

Pete goes apeshit on him and demonstrates what would happen if he were to face off against a non-Super. of course, Punisher bullshit ensues and cars explode and Pete looks like an idiot after but still.

Above all else it's very, very annoying when they actually write stories about it either way. Thankfully that is a rarity though.

If they don't like killing they will just do something else and that's that. Doesn't have to be an active thought.

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>>90692935
It's mostly editorial/fan driven.
In universe, there are characters for whom it makes sense and others where it doesn't.
The only reason it's an "issue" to some autists is because editorial and fans want reoccuring villains, so prisons don't work, and for that matter, neither does killing anyway. If that wasn't the case no kill and kill policies would both be valid, as is neither is.

Faggots like OP make me miss the rape the Joker forced meme.

>>90692935
What bugs me about this page and the idea behind it is that what he's doing here doesn't have anything to do with being a hero or not. Spider-Man doesn't resent soldiers defending their country by killing ISIS soldiers; he only doesn't kill people because he's essentially a glorified (and unsanctioned) police officer, it isn't his place to be enacting corporal punishment, he just rounds them up and puts them into the slammer. Mark isn't choosing not to be a hero by killing these fucks who are unaccountable to anyone other than him, no human on Earth can do shit against the Viltrumites and they want to take over Earth so yeah kill 'em all if you need to dude, it's fine.

Characters with a really extreme no-kill policy like Batman usually annoy me. Those that try not to kill but in special cases will put the villain down if there's no other option are cool though.

Generally I do enjoy the edgy anti-heroes more. Just my personal preference though, I don't know why people get so mad when someone likes/doesn't like the no-kill policy. Is Invincible good? What are some good, entertaining edge comics? Just finished The Authority.

>>90692935
It can create some nice moments and stories. Like when the hero does end up killing, how would he take it? Also if the hero constantly killed their enemy, it would get boring.

>>90693374
Real life doesn't work that way. People try, but often don't have a choice. If someone breaks into your house, you're not thinking about saving anyone.
>But they're super heroes!!
I realize that, but the sooner people abandon naive expectations like that, the better. If someone comes at you with killing intent, your first thought shouldn't be "maybe we should have a nice talk".

A no-kill policy is just a matter of selling more comics.

That's all.

Anyone who believes different is an idiot.

>>90693294
anon, you do realize almost everyone in Gotham can tell the difference between some random petty criminal to a full blown terrorist like the Joker right?

I don't think Gotham of or anyone else would mind if Joker's body showed up at the morgue with a bat note attached to ti

Back in the day, superheroes didn't kill but villains still died, mostly by their own hubris and the writer's sense of irony. Batman never tried to kill Strange but the fucker "died" almost every major appearance.

>>90693568
This is not true at all if you spend even 10 seconds thinking about it. If they wanted to they could just write the popular villains escaping and avoiding being killed while the unpopular throwaway ones are dealt with.

>>90693563
Nigga we're talking about cape comics, not your wet dreams about shooting some guy who deserved it.

>>90693547
>I don't know why people get so mad when someone likes/doesn't like the no-kill policy.

I think it's because it always turns into an argument about which is a better policy. Of course, neither are particularly effective at removing overall crime, they're just personal moral/accountability stances, so it's a silly thing to argue.

>>90693547
From a ME perspective-
Invincible is lame. Everyone acts lame and they do lame things and it doesn't even make sense most of the time.

From an edginess enthusiast perspective-
It's dumb.
Everyone is either completely invulnerable to attacks or their bodies act like plastic baggies filled with corn syrup.

>>90693417
>that spoiler

ideally the justice system would enact the death penalty on the Joker. He couldn't consistently use the insanity plea as an excuse, it wouldn't even work twice if he were killing people, that's why i prefer Joker as more of a bank robber/gangster who doesn't kill a lot because it doesn't set the precedent that he needs to die. Besides, as a billionaire Bruce should just campaign to have the death penalty enacted in Gotham as the final solution to the abundancy of psychopaths if he doesn't genuinely believe in curing their mental illnesses (which he has no reason to)

>>90693691
Even if they sentence him to death it's not like he wouldn't break out before they could actually kill him. It takes decades to actually kill someone via the law.

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I think that it depends on the character.

Superman should probably not kill anyone because he's supposed to be all high ideals and infinite capacity for solutions, either through (will)power or creative thinking..
Batman should probably not kill anyone because he's fucked in the head and being forced to cross a weird moral line like that would kind of cause the collapse of the weird internal logic the character has built.
Spider-Man should probably not kill anyone because he's supposed to be your average joe, and joe average hasn't killed anyone.
Iron Man should probably kill people because he's a explicitly a weapons designer. Weapons are for killing people. Plus, he's rich, so he can get away with it.
Cap should kill, but only in situations where there's no alternative. Soldiers aren't supposed to execute the enemy if they can subdue them without bothering. It should be an extreme situation kind of thing.
Then you have people like the X-Men who should probably avoid killing purely for political reasons ("Did you see what those muties did?")

Sometimes someone just needs to fucking die but by and large killing shouldn't be done. Like if a person has committed horrible atrocities and is too smart to properly lock up forever or punish then just throw him into the damn sun already.

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>>90692935
I prefer it when it's

'Don't kill unless its absolutely necessary."

Comic book writers all seem to be shut in faggots who have no idea that the real world is full if horrible people. "No one is beyond saving," "always a way," blah blah blah

Now look, I'm not trying to sound like an edgy faggot kid with the "HURR DURR KILL EM ALL" mentality. Sometimes, people need a second chance. Sometimes, there's a way to stop someone peacefully who in most people's eyes should die

But more often than not, the world isn't sunshine and rainbows. There is such a thing as the point of no return. There are such things as irredeemable people. Some bullies bully simply because they're sadists, rather than the "oh he has problems at home" shtick so many cartoons push.

Bottom line is, real life isn't as black and white as comics and cartoons and other media make it out to be. Violence isn't always the answer, but the same goes for pacifism.

In the words of Wolverine, "sometimes, people deserve to die,"

>>90693654
>they're just personal moral/accountability stances
They're not even personal for a lot of people, or at least in my case.

I don't condone vigilantism and violent decapitations in real life, I just find it entertaining in fiction.

>>90693556
You could go full Batman Beyond and get your villains killed off accidentally.

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>>90693644
When that happens all the time people call it bullshit because it made the heroes look like idiots.
Which isn't wrong either.

Reoccuring villains are bound to make someone look bad, except if you can't kill them or imprison them, and can just banish them temporarly.

>>90693648
then cape comics have bad morals? Also, Spider-Man has killed and has been willing to kill before.
>your wet dreams about shooting some guy who deserved it.
Most pro-gun people have expressed to me their desire to never have to shot someone else, not everyone is going to give you that choice. Having my home broken into and my life threatened are not my idea of good times.

>>90693737
I meant more for the characters, not the readers.

>>90693730
What's going on in this image?

>>90692935
I'm fine with it normally but not when the villain has been written in such a way that not killing them makes you look like a piece of shit i.e. Batman and the Joker.

>>90693775
Really? Because most of the time when I hear people talking about guns they seem to almost be fantasizing about being given an excuse to use them

Granted, if you're talking loudly in public to random people about how much you love guns and are ready to defend yourself at a moment's notice, maybe you're less typical and more cuckoo, but there's a lot of them!

>>90693763
Yeah I won't disagree with that. It just bugs me when people try to argue that the no-kill rule only exists so villains can be reused as if it's the only way to keep villains alive in-story.

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>>90693791

>>90692935
Why being super strong/being able to fly should give you the right to kill anyone? It's not their fucking business to decide.

>>90693713
yeah but once he's out on the street with a death sentence the next cop that sees his ass can light him up

>>90692935
There's a middle ground between 'No killing absolutely ever' and, well, Punisher.

Invincible is probably not a bad example of this. He has killed, but in completely reasonable situations. The vast majority of the time he tries not to.

Which is one of the reasons Invincible is so good. The characters have reasonably reactions to the events around them.

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>>90692935
it's okay to kill as long as they are not humans or half humans

>>90693730
I think those messages are more supposed to be inspirational than directly word-for-word applied to real life.

Life is nuances of grey, but some contrast can make for fun stories (and has the bonus of being much easier to write if you don't poke at it too much).

>>90693833
Maybe I've meet more people who are not idiot teenagers or rednecks.
>But there's a lot of them!
So what? Do responsible folks have to suffer because you're afraid? Maybe there's as much educated gun users than gun nuts, you've never considered that possibility?

>>90693791
That would be a video

>>90692935
I didn't understand why Thragg actually cared that that kid got murdered. I mean he has dozens, maybe hundreds more of them. Also, did Mark actually kill that girl by smashing her face into the ground?

>>90692935
It makes sense if you're just fighting street thugs.

It makes less sense if you're fighting say, Hydra. If they have a plan to blow up the world and you're trying to stop them, it'd be pretty dumb to slow yourself down by worrying about not killing the foot soldiers.

It makes absolutely no sense if you're fighting an alien dictator who can level a building with a single punch, and who could not be held by any jail known to man.

>>90693563

I think it would depend on the hero. If you're someone like Superman, who can shrug off bullets like raindrops and benchpress the moon, there's very little justifiable reason for him to use lethal force in most situations.

>>90693975
She's still alive, dude. Did you even pay attention?

>>90693294
No Batman doesnt kill his villains becauss DC writers cant constantly come up with new villains so they just reuse tge old ones over and over.

>>90694001
Won't someone please think of the henchmen?
https://youtu.be/Ag_AFraxj-4

>>90694010
would one of those reasons be to save the lives of innocent people from being killed with heat vision?

Asking for a friend.

>>90694010
Yeah, unless a hero can be reasonably threatened by a criminal, "killing in self defense" doesn't cut it.

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>>90693892
I guess you have a point. After all, it's fiction and fiction should be inspiring. After all, someone who has the power and nobility not to kill is pretty inspiring/entertaining.

That said, I hate it when said super powered guys who can clear out a battalion of ISIS fighters without shedding blood tries to get up in the reader's grill for not thinking the same.

.What, you though *GASP* killing would be right in this situation? You sick fiend!

Well, golly gee, how could I have not thought of crushing their armored vehicles with my bare hands before knocking them all out in one punch as the bullets from their hand me down AKM's bounce off me?

I can take a character who can do these things and realize that we can't, but when they judge everyone else by their standards, that pisses me off. Prime example

>THIS IS THE WEAPON OF THE ENEMY. WE DO NOT USE IT, WE DO NOT NEED IT.

Hey Bruce, you insane faggot, I DO need it and I DO use it. Don't hop on my dick for not being able to do the same shit you do

>>90694053
The only thing that triggers me with this scene is that he snaps the laser-emmiting head IN THE DIRECTION OF THE HOSTAGES. They should have died.

Other than that I don't think it's a great way to establish a new Superman, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.

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>>90693691
>ideally the justice system would enact the death penalty on the Joker.

This. If Batman was authorized to kill criminals and had no qualms in doing so, I would just be reading Judge Dredd in Gotham.

I would add that it's also a litterary device which could be reversed: Batman could have been killed many times, if his opponents didn't want to finish him off in a grandiose way.

>>90694112
Also, that family should have already been dead. All Zod needs to do is look at them.

>>90694112
I think if they'd built up his no-kill policy and raised the question of when it was necessary to break it, it might have worked better as a scene.

>>90693374
Not killing is for edgy tryhards.

>>90693791
russian swat successfully baited two kid thugs into doing kid thug things then proceeded to scare the living shit out of them by firing blanks close range.

kids effectively neutralized, proceed to arrest.

this is a massive risk because the kid is armed with a gun and can kill the officer baiting the kids

brazil does this too except they shoot real bullets.

The problem with a kill policy is mainly that you can't be a judge, jury and executioner on the field. As a hero, your only real call is taking someone in.

The only time a no kill policy should be evaluated is when hostile intent eclipses the need to preserve human life. Just like actual law enforcement. Comics just place most of the weight of life and death on the hero for dramatic purposes. In reality, Gotham criminals would have all gotten the death penalty or been gunned down in crossfire ages ago. With probably a lot of lost innocent life in the process because of Batman's lack of agency.

>>90694200
Didn't they do that?
Gotta admit I've only watched once years ago.

I'm more talking about Superman first facing ennemies he can overcome without snapping their neck. And yeah you could say it builds on previous depictions of Supes but then don't make it a point to make this an origin movie and tell us this version of the guy was jerking around on fishing boats for 15 years.
I didn't buy it was a shock for him because I was never shown him being right thinking "there's always a way" in the first place.

>>90694200
That scene is meant to establish the cost of killing though, to be the origin of Superman's code of ethics into its traditional form. MoS is an origin story after all.

>>90693374
Spidermans killed people and deliberately maimed them also. Supes has killed a few people too.

>>90693568

I think there is a political element to it. Wertham accused Superman (and superheroes by extent) of being a fascist fantasy, and people like Joss Whedon use the term "fascist" to describe the Punisher a lot. Superheroes arbitrarily applying lethal force to wrongdoers outside of any sort of due process tends to not sit well with the general public and runs contrary to the values espoused by liberal democracy. For whatever reason, the general public is fine with beating up criminals and leaving them for the police, but killing them would somehow upset the general rule of law.

>>90694010

Which is why pretty much every situation where Superman HAS used lethal force (Doomsday, Imperiex, Darkseid, etc.) doesn't cause too much of a stir.

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>>90694010
Consider an scenario were killing one bad guy saves a 100 not-bad guys, and there's no work around,
What choice is someone like superman is going to take? It's not even a "sadistic" choice, it's a pretty clear problem.
Now consider the same scenario, but instead of 100 people being in imminent danger, they will be in the future. What's going to be Superman choice?
In my opinion, if Superman chooses to save the bad guy in the second scenario, is that he's not taking his super hero role seriously, if he's going to be that fickle and selfish about not killing in order to keep his self imposed "moral code".
If someone like Batman thinks that killing someone is going to compromise his entire hero identity, then how can you call Batman a reliable person, much less sane.
Moreover, if someone is willing to go through the ordeal of killing someone, it doesn't mean they can't wish for a world where they didn't had to do that choice in the first place.

>>90694403
It was sort of in there, but sort of obfuscated by his dad not really encouraging him/keeping him grounded in Good American Ideals, and by the story dumping lots of messiah overtones into all the scenes. I think it was a good idea in theory and they clearly knew it should be there, but it just doesn't work as written.

>>90694476
Killing someone because they could be a future problem is sort of a minority report situation, isn't it?

>>90694428
>That scene is meant to establish the cost of killing though
How does it do that though, when killing was literally the solution to the problem?
Yes, he hated killing Zod, and that's a good reason for him wanting to find another way (not that he went straight to killing him either), not a reason to believe there is one.

Metas shouldn't be killing normal humans. They should be executed though a court of law.

However, I don't mind if they kill objectively evil things that normal humans can't touch. Shit like Darksied.

The only 2 I ever liked were Batman and Goku from DBZ. Batman does it because he's insane, dangerous, and the cops are only sometimes on his side. If he started killing people, he'd lose every friend he had in the GPD, and that would make it a lot harder to work.

Goku does it because he like fighting people, and you can't fight anyone if they're dead. So he lets them live, hoping they'll become strong enough to challenge him.

"I try not to kill, if I can help it" is a good policy

"I will never take a life, no matter what" is fucking stupid

>>90694476
Do the fans like the bad guy?
Because if so killing him wont prevent him from committing future crimes.

>>90694512
Not exactly, if that someone has killed people before, time and time again.

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>>90693450
>he's killed multiple times

List them then.

>>90694562
lol you think Goku doesn't kill people

>>90694588
I like "I will always look for a better way, and if I have to kill, I'll take steps to prevent that situation from happening again."

>>90692935
>"Oh no, this genocidal maniac is going to kill, and kill again if I don't put him down for good, but if I kill him to save countless innocent lives, I'm as bad as he is."
It's stupid.

>>90694476
The whole point of Superman having that moral code is that there is ALWAYS a work-around. If there isn't, he makes one himself. He's Superman. He can move planets and travel through time. How are you gonna tell him what's impossible or not?

You never lose hope in the idea that there is a way to save everyone. That's why Man of Steel was shit; because Superman lost hope and resorted to snapping necks.

>>90694714
The "S" means "Hope". As in, "I hope you don't make me snap your neck."

Here's a better way of looking at the issue: What villains SHOULD be killed? Like, if you were working on a "kill list" for the Marvel and DC universes, who would you be okay with letting people kill on sight?

>>90693858
That could just be the Thing. Decapitation never stopped it.

>>90694822
The unpopular ones.

>>90694822
The Punisher.

>>90694714
I've always found heroes that have to shoulder the burden much more appealing.
I can see you being mad at Man Of Murder because it compromises an established character, but if it was anyone else I wouldn't really care as much if he snapped the genocidal alien's neck.
Superman ends up being a symbol in the end, hoping for the best outcome. I can see that, but I don't necessarily have to like it.
The initial problem was "someone like Superman" not "THE Superman."

>>90694476
>and there's no work around
Here's your first problem. There's literally always a workaround because this is FICTION written so that the good guys win without killing.
>instead of 100 people being in imminent danger, they will be in the future
You're going to have to clarify this statement because right now it sounds like some serious thought policing shit. If I think that you might be about to conduct illegal activity I should act as a vigilante and kill you?
>how can you call Batman a reliable person, much less sane
literally nobody who knows a decent amount about Batman considers him sane.
>If someone is willing to go through the ordeal of killing someone, it doesn't mean they can't wish for a world where they didn't had to do that choice [sic] in the first place
This is the only non-retarded thing in your entire post.

Honestly, whatever the character does, I just want them to stand by it. The moment Batman deliberately puts a bunch of people in a lethal, possibly inescapable situation and says "I DON'T HAVE TO KILL YOU BUT I DON'T HAVE TO SAVE YOU", you know he's fucked up his own morals.

>>90694989
When did that happen?

>>90694638
Not that Anon but he killed The Thousand (Tangled Web story by Ennis); and Morlun (from JMS' first story ark with Ezekiel).

>>90693294
Police would have to take Batman in regardless because vigilantism is illegal.

>>90695008
Batman Begins, when he fucks up the train so it can't stop and then fucks off while pretending he's not the reason they died.

Of course, Nolan Batman probably killed a few people.

>>90695012
Waaaaiiiiit wait wait wait wait.
Ennis came up with The Thousand?

>>90694139
>If Batman was authorized to kill criminals and had no qualms in doing so, I would just be reading Judge Dredd in Gotham.
I feel like this is what a lot of people don't get. These no-kill ideologies of certain heroes are there because it's part of their character and makes their stories play out a certain way, sometimes leading them to be faced with moral dilemmas.

The hero's moral code isn't there as a moral guide to the reader, fiction isn't all aesop's fucking fables where you're expected to take a moral lesson from the story.

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>>90694095
>That said, I hate it when said super powered guys who can clear out a battalion of ISIS fighters without shedding blood tries to get up in the reader's grill for not thinking the same

When does that ever fucking happen? Superheroes rarely get into real world war because anyone with a brain knows it's not something they should be in. And if they do, it's mostly anti-war lessons, which is pretty reasonable and exactly the kind of thing they shouldn't want.

>Hey Bruce, you insane faggot, I DO need it and I DO use it. Don't hop on my dick for not being able to do the same shit you do

Are you seriously getting mad at a guy whose entire shtick is that he's emotionally scarred by guns? Are you that much of a child?

>>90695038
>Of course, Nolan Batman probably killed a few people.
He caused the death of a group of ninjas in BB and also deliberately killed Two-face and Talia. Nolan's Bat was retarded.

>>90692935
Not against them though shouldnt be something everyone has.

I feel its important to Batman and superman's characters, but otherwise i dont think its mandatory

>>90695043

Makes a bit more sense in hindsight, doesn't it?

>>90695119
It's mostly pretending he's not guilty of manslaughter in BB that bothers me. He gave the order to blow up the bridge and then deliberately did not save the people on it while openly pretending it wasn't his responsibility.

>>90695016
Police let a lot of illegal things go. Catching Batman is nearly impossible and would drain resources from the department that would be better used on more typical criminals they can actually contain. Even if the commission didn't personally trust Batman, making the decision to go after him isn't as cut and dry as it sounds.

>>90694952
>Here's your first problem. There's literally always a workaround because this is FICTION written so that the good guys win without killing.
>FICTION
no, it's called bad writing.
>You're going to have to clarify this statement because right now it sounds like some serious thought policing shit
I did here >>90694626 If someone is a repeated offender, does a superhero really has the luxury to spare him again for the umpteenth time?
Superman (and most people in general) can't read minds or look into the future, the only way to know if someone is going to act again is if they've done it in the first place, and superheroes often deal with such people.

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>>90695181

>>90695119
Two face's death came more about from desperation.
He was down from getting shot and had to do something. He nearly died himself in the process

No comment on Talia

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>>90695212

>>90695205
Plus, a no-kill Batman isn't as high a "catch him" priority as one who kills criminals.

>>90695172
You're telling me.
Yeeeesh.

>>90694822

The Joker, Harley Quinn, Zsasz, Black Manta.

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>>90695250

When did the Batman no kill thing start?

>>90695253
Right. Killing criminals is the difference between "we can let this one slide for now, boys" and "we have to take him in"

>>90695012
Has he killed actual people? The former was nothing more then a hivemind of bugs, the other is a vampire that came back after your claim.

>>90695286
No doubt during the comics code when everyone was forced to turn down the content in their comics

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>>90695278

>>90695185
I remember how hard everyone in Super Robot Wars was shitting on Kira Yamato because he spared the people he was fighting, calling "arrogant and irresponsible" because his actions were going to cause further chaos.

>>90695327
I thought no-kill Batman predated Seduction of the Innocent? Kind of around his first re-imagining after the original strips?

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>>90695108
What I'm saying is I hate when the media I consume for entertainment tries to preach at me, Period.

Batman's writers have said again and again that they're not just writing a character that hates gun for personal reasons (which I can handle). They see themselves and the comic as a huge anti-gun platform.

In all honesty, I don;t care if you lean left, lean right, tell me to kill, tell me not to, I just hate when people try setting up a pullpit

>>90695327
But villains survived to Batman way before that, so that wouldn't have been necessary.

>>90695286
Golden Age, right after he got Robin. Makes sense, since he wanted to set a better example for Robin and makes sure he doesn't grow up a traumatized psychopath. It was only later when DC decided to tie that with insanity.

>>90695212
>>90695250
>>90695278

The Transformers are soldiers fighting a war, them using lethal force is much more different than capes. That being said, I think Optimus has a pretty good explanation and justification for what he's doing. I'm not terribly familiar with the IDW-verse, but IIRC Galvatron was always kind of a rabid dog that needed to be put down.

>>90695350

I enjoy how in DWG2 Yazan and Gym team up to beat the shit out of Kira, Lacus and Arthrun just to kind of drive the point home to the viewer that non-lethal force in the midst of war is stupid. The hatred of SEED among non-fujoshis is kind of universal I think.

>>90692935
Kill in the most extreme circumstances is my preferred way.

>>90692935
Some people deserve to die.

>>90695441
Hell, even Bruce's extreme PTSD over his parents' death is pretty recent as far as comics go. He's always been driven by it, but only now does it make him press F to pay his respects.

>>90695388
>What I'm saying is I hate when the media I consume for entertainment tries to preach at me, Period

Media that doesn't align to your own views of the world is not preaching, you moron.

>Batman's writers have said again and again that they're not just writing a character that hates gun for personal reasons (which I can handle). They see themselves and the comic as a huge anti-gun platform

[citation needed]

>>90695320
I actually didn't realize that Morlun came back. Was that JMS or some later writer? Because it was pretty strongly implied that he was dead and gone.

And I can't think of any people he's killed, but again, I was not the initial anon who said that Spidey had killed before, I just chimed in the few incidents I can think of.

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>>90692935
I don't read cape comics.

>>90695012
Spider-Man didn't kill either of those guys. The Thousand killed himself while trying to killer Peter (think Green Goblin before it was revealed he was alive all along). Morlun's assistant killed him while Peter put him in a weakened state.

>>90695388
What the writers say doesn't matter. Writers change.

Batman is personally traumatized and disgusted by guns, but as far as I know he hasn't said anything about law-abiding citizens or even cops using guns. He's not preaching shit.

>>90695483
Death is too good for the most reprehensible people. Why would you want to give a villain relief from suffering? Why would you want to give him the easy way out from it all?

>>90694562
>implying Goku doesn't kill

>>90695586
why comment? not everything needs your comment

>>90694822
Joker, Zsasz, Black Manta, Oceanlord, Dr Light, Harley, Poison Ivy

>>90695209
First, you need to learn how to put your fucking thoughts into a coherent sequence. Your statement reads: "It's not fiction, it's bad writing".

Second, it's not bad writing; it's conventions of the genre. Do you consider it bad writing when teenagers have sex at camp crystal lake despite one of their friends being mysteriously late to return to the cabin? Products are written for a target audience and that audience has certain expectations generally relating to the standard conventions of the genre. People expect detectives to catch the murderer at the end of the whodunnit and people expect Superman to save the day. Conforming to those expectations isn't bad writing.

Third, in what fucking world does "the only way to know if someone is going to act again is if they've done it in the first place" a logical statement? You understand that one of the stated purposes of the penal system is rehabilitation into society? Your philosophy seems based on the idea that if someone commits a crime they absolutely will be a repeat offender because that's some sort of unwritten law of the universe. Ironically, you'd almost have a point if you made an appeal to genre conventions of criminals not ever reforming but you yourself seem to think that traditional conventions of a medium are 'bad writing' so you don't really have a leg to stand on there.

Honestly, you should probably stop reading superhero comics. It's pretty obvious that you have some serious issues with what the genre is supposed to be about and you seem unwilling or incapable of expecting anything else but your own shallow perception of what makes a narrative good.

>>90694366
Brazilian cops are terrifying.

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>>90695533
>Media that doesn't align to your own views of the world is not preaching, you moron.

See, but I don't care even if it DOES align with me.

I came to consume entertaining media, not get caught up in the politics and garbage that I'm trying to escape in the first place. That's why I dropped JonTron, because even if I agree with what he says sometimes, I've just gotten sick of the soap box. I just want the ECHs and the 'I AAAAIIIINN"T HAVIN THAT SHIT" back. Yes Jon, the middle east is a clusterfuck, but I didn't come to you to talk about that. I wanna see you review a shitty movie or game with the same absurdist humor i knew you for in 2012.

So quit trying to play McHardass, anon. I don't care what your views are. I wanna relax and enjoy an amazing story, not listen to someone's intricate spiel as to why gun control is crap. Granted I agree with it, but I can go to /k/ to circlejerk about that. I don't want this fantastic odyssey interrupted by the things I'm trying to escape from.

>>90695628
See, I'm actually okay if Batman hates guns. They traumatized him and I can't shake him for that I just hate it when his viewpoints are glorified by the writers and waved in my face saying"YOU SHOULD SEE THEM LIKE BATMAN!".

Multiple times has he saved the lives of horrible mass murderers like the joker by stopping a gunman/policeman form shooting him. Then, it's all written as if to glorify batman's actions or say he was in the right. Whether he is or not is another ramble for another day. What matters is the writers are telling me that Batman is right for stopping a man from killing the Joker because of scary guns. Now, if they had him do that and emphasize that it was because of his personal hate of guns through the writing, I would be okay with it. Instead, he does it and it;s not because he hates guns, but because the writers say he's in the right

Requesting the page where a guy is aiming at Joker with a G36 before Batman stops him

>>90692935

Poor in theory, but in reality it stops every schmuck writer creating their own edgy wish fulfillment murder paradise. I like Alan Moore, I just don't like the twats who think they can be him by creating murder savants left right and centre .

That being said, it should always be a logical/spiritual AND personal thing. For instance, Hellboy kills people but isn't a murdering psychopath because he doesn't get off on it. Batman doesn't kill people, but it's absurd when he drops that shit for non-humans and tries to kill superman for arbitrary shit, like preventing the apocalypse with only an A+ rank for saving people.

Spiderman does it occasionally, but it kinda detracts from the quality unless there's a very good reason for spiderman to kill. It's stupid when spiderman starts killing mooks because his tight squeeze did something stupid for instance.

Besides, if I wanted a story where the heroes had a reason to be killing people, as in life or death, against the wall kind of choices, I'd read judge dredd and x men. The former has to keep society together and he believes it's the only way to do so, the latter keeps getting bullshit thrown at them every time they request to use a non-segregated cafe.

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this fucker just killed your daughter probably ate her killed most of your town and now spider-man is telling you don't do it or you'll be as bad as him
He also goes on to kill at a mall and almost kills a universe

>>90693492
I need more Spidersassin...

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I think the existence of reoccurring villains and/or a Rogues gallery, is the sign of a failed hero.

>>90695912
>I'm actually okay if Batman hates guns. They traumatized him and I can't shake him for that I just hate it when his viewpoints are glorified by the writers and waved in my face saying "YOU SHOULD SEE THEM LIKE BATMAN!"
Same here. It can be interesting if it's the character's motivations we're seeing, it ceases to be interesting when it's blatantly obvious it's the writer's motivations and it just comes across as soapboxing.

It's probably just time to give up on capes, they're not really anything more than platforms for the writers personal opinions any more.

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>>90696125
fucking THANK YOU

>>90696113
Yeah, but recurring casts are fun. It doesn't work for things with a serious tone, though.

>>90695796
If you never subvert or defy the conventions of the genre, all you get is paint-by-numbers schlock with no redeeming value.

>>90695979
RIP Carnageman...

Free as a bird now.

>>90696113
I'd love to see a Rogues gallery that actually becomes (and stays) mostly redeemed.

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>>90696270
It'd be interesting to see cape civilians pull a Piccolo/Vegeta

>>90695683
Just don't feed them on my dime.

>>90696231
Did he ever get that monument with the confederate flag blasting Skynard?

>>90696270
See, a redeemed set of Rogues actually makes for a good show of a good hero - someone who can find and rehabilitate the people who are villains by necessity or mistakes.

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>>90696227
Do you always see things in absolutes? Of course you can subvert things, but sticking to traditional conventions is not bad writing.

>>90696315
he came back as normal carnage and killed a lot of people so even if they were planing on building it you can bet it got scrapped

>>90696316
What kills me is a good chunk of Pete and Bruce's just plain work better as antiheroes or full-on goody goods.

Just let Nygma solve crimes with his daughter and Sandman stay an Avenger, dammit.

>>90692935
way I see it heroes should normally avoid killing, but there are situations where it becomes necessary, although what those situations are changes depending on the hero in question

>>90696113
it's only become a problem in the modern day with most villains becoming constant murderers

>>90696484
Yeah, it's a pity comics are obsessed with status quo, or we'd probably get some more permanent villain-to-hero switches.

>>90696501
And as you say, the only reason Rogues are so shit nowadays is that they're all repeat killers, making rehab seem unlikely.

>>90695446
The war's been over for years by this point in IDW, Galvatron was trying to start shit up again and had just failed. Everyone involved as just like "alright, we've all had enough of this shit"

>>90695756
>>90695276

>two calls for Manta

I know about the baby-killing, but is there some other reason Black Manta has to die so badly?

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>>90695441
I kinda like that better. There should be some stories of Batman being a former killer in his early years and change because he wants to set a better example after getting Robin.

In Batman's case, extremely frustrating because come the fuck on.

Yeah no shit capes shouldn't kill every random criminal but for fuck's sake certain villains, like the Joker, are just too evil.

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>>90696440
Fuck Marvel, seriously.

>>90696698
It'd make an interesting moment if combined with >>90696697 . Imagine Batman trying to set a good example for Robin, to teach him to be better than he was so he doesn't turn out unhinged, and then having to deal with someone like the joker?

>>90696698
Why does everyone keep bringing up specifically the Joker?
The guy has died like half a dozen times already, killing him doesn't work.

>>90695756
>Harley
Because she's an accessory or that retconned bus full of kids?

I can understand the former.

Depends on the context

in a war, no problem heroes just need to follow the rules.

capes if the villain also follows a no kill like Flashs villains, sure why not

Superman, because people would think he'll go eval so of course not.

Green Lanterns are cops so follow cop rules

>>90696740
>This version of Batman secretly kills Joker at the end of the arc so Robin doesn't get messed up over it.

"He's not a killer. Not like us."

>>90696798
Spooky

>>90692935
Pretty dumb rule to be honest.
>I shan't kill you because I'm against it.
>But he's going to kill more people. AGAIN!
>Muh morality.
Yeah, upholding your own nonsensical standards at the expense of others is stupid.

>>90694366
>>90693730
I still don't understand why bait cars are a controversy, if you don't want to be put away for stealing cars don't steal cars.

>>90696798
>hero wants to remain inspirational
>has villains and psychos secretly killed
Would read, desu. If only because it'd be fucking hilarious to see a villain in that universe suddenly realize his world's Superman / Batman is really the fucking Punisher.

>>90696876
Some argue it's a waste of police time / resources but yeah, no sympathy for those who fall for it.

>>90696932
The point of it would be the character development, I think. Both hero and protege would end up becoming better due to one another by the end.

Of course, it'd never happen because ongoing comics never end.

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>>90692935
Lions Kill.

Pussies Don't.

Seriously, these five have killed so many people, it's almost ridiculous.

>>90692935
It's good. Invincible is a shit garbage book written by someone who stopped caring at least 6 or 7 years ago.

>>90695205

No, actually it would be pretty easy to arrest Batman you batfag.

>>90697020
>Pussies Don't.
You'0ve obviously never owned a cat.

>>90697118
Tell me about it. My cat is a fucking psychopath that brings things in alive to fuck with them.

>>90694640
I can't remember the last time he did, but if he does, he still makes it a policy to let them go (Vegita, Freeza, Piccolo, Freeza again).

>>90692935

Having a no-kill policy is a noble thing for a hero to have and I don't have a problem with it in concept. What bothers me specifically about Batman's no-kill policy is that as time goes on the Joker is written to be ever more evil, ever darker, and guilty of ever more monstrous acts to the point that it just makes Batman look retarded.

Once you're villain is a sentient memetic plague that has crippled the daughter of one of the hero's best friends, killed the hero's surrogate son, mangled the hero's surrogate father, spread a terminal Rage style virus through an entire city, it becomes a farce.

Batman would look a whole lot less retarded if writers weren't trying to take Joker to a new level every couple of years. It's always "the Joker is back and THIS time it's different! He's MORE evil!"

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Invincible is a murderer

>>90697140
>didn't kill Radditz (although it's a bit of a technicality here)
>didn't kill Vegeta
>killed (?) Recoome, Burter and Jeece
>didn't kill Freeza
>didn't kill Cell
>killed Buu
He really doesn't kill a lot in Z. Other people do most of the killing.

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>>90693547
Invincible is fun.

Been reading it since middle school so I'm pretty sad it's ending next year.

>>90697299
That's mostly because the original japanese Goku just wants better fights, so he lets people who challenged him survive to come back for another round. It's a character flaw.

>>90697260
Golden Age Joker was a muderring psycho too. Him becoming reoccuring and a general change of tagets to kids forced them to make him less threatening and goofier, which more or less coincided with Batman stopping to kill for good.

Basically the current status quo is the only one where it really doesn't make sense.

>>90697365
Nobody claimed otherwise, a no kill rule doesn't have to be presented as honorable.

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>>90693678
>or their bodies act like plastic baggies filled with corn syrup.


Corn syrup?

When Invincible strangled and disemboweled that old man (pic related), you saw lots of guts....

>>90697417
>disemboweled
Invincible was was the won that gutted.

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>>90693854
Agreed.

Invincible tries really hard to defy his murderous nature.

>>90697417
>that old man
That's conquest, sir
Nice cherrypicking.
The point is, you're either completely invulnerable or your enemy can pulp the fuck out of you with one hand.

>>90697117
>No, actually it would be pretty easy to arrest Batman you batfag.
All those policemen in year one that tried to arrest him would disagree.

>>90697500
>Killing the Immortal

>>90697500
I nearly busted my gut in those three beat panels.

>>90697500
This series suffered so bad from Bendisitis
So many repeated panels

>>90697500
I can't get over how much the blood and guts in this comic look like jello sometimes.

>>90696633
He's an unrepentant mass murderer with zero scruples and terrifying competence.

>>90695596
Didn't he toss a clone of himself into a smoke stack once?

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>>90697535
>>90697627
>>90697648
>>90697670

>>90696697

We had something close to that in ASBAR, but everyone hated it because Batman being a crazy asshole was actually quite upsetting to a lot of people for some reason.

>>90697707

Fair enough. Probably wouldn't be my first pick though.

>>90696633
He's completely and utterly insane.

When he heard that Aquaman was dead, he settled down and opened up a quite little shop next to a harbor, integrated himself into the local flavor and generally was a good, if distant citizen.

When he heard Aquaman came back to life, he immediately slaughtered everyone in the shop with a knife, burned the shop and dove into the ocean to get his war-gear.

>>90694562
Goku killed a lot of people in DB, and in Z he saw frieza, cell, and buu as threats that needed to be taken out

>>90693547
Invincible is fun, though it has a pretty severe dip after the Viltrumite War arc (pretty far in). It's back to fun now though, looking like it will finish out strong.

>>90697846
And now he kicked up an interdimensional tournament that's gonna see countless lives killed.

>>90696113
Depends on the rogues gallery. There's Batman's rogues gallery and then there is Flash's rogues gallery.

>>90697780
Er . . . your point?

>>90697877

To be fair, I think it still is canon that Goku is a huge idiot.

>>90697780
As someone who's really unfamiliar with Invincible I'm not sure how to react to the abundance of moustaches

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>>90697912
>>90697934

>>90697934
Every fullblooded Viltrumite male has them.
Every. Single. One.

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>>90693547
Invincible is probably the best cape comic out there. Takes the tropes and spins them in entertaining ways. Certain parts drag a lot, but the peaks more than make up for it.

>>90697846
It's unclear whether Frieza surviving Namek's destruction is meant to be entirely accidental.

>>90697934
The Kryptonian analogues are a race of evil, superpowered Freddie Mercuries. They ALL have moustaches. Except for the eponymous Invincible, who's only half.

>>90692935
I'm cool with it either way, Batman generally shouldn't kill, Punisher generally should kill, they're all different characters.

From a moral standpoint I'd kill the Joker though

>>90692935
The no kill policy should be in place because neither the writer or the artist can accurately portray a superhero executing a criminal in a believable manner. Every Time a superhero kills a bad guy, it's always done in a gruesome over the top manner that doesn't mesh with the hero's style.

>>90697934
It's a defining characteristic of that particular species, their peak specimen ruler you're seeing there is just Freddie Mercury with insane flying brick powers. How badass they are is directly proportionate to how legit their 'stache is. The main character is an anomaly.

>>90697973
Eat my chode, Thragg
fucken choke on it

>>90697976
That's relly fucking goofy.

>>90698015
It's actually my favorite part about the comic, no lie. Love the staches.

>>90697278
Well he's definitely a killer.

Not 100% if he murdered anyone, but I haven't gone through the whole series for a long time.

Maybe he murdered Dinosaurus?

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>>90698054
He did

>>90698034
But... it's cultural, right?
They don't just happen to have an indestructible patch of facial hair localized entirely under their nose, right?

>>90698054
He man-of-murdered that unfortunate astronaut who was host to the Sequids for a good chunk of the series.

And Shapesmith was never held properly responsible for his part in that man's fate. Still RIP tho, I miss you best martian, fuck Robot.

>>90698117
Unknown, but the evidence points to yes.

>>90698156
Oh fuck I completely forgot even SS died. I was looking for him. I'm still not sure he's really dead.

>>90697980
Your Mileage May Vary.
The spun-on-their-head tropes can get kinda hit-or-miss.
Like, the justification for how the Guardians of the Globe can operate are cool and unique, but a lot of the other stuff I just found kind of-
Dumb?
Even if you look past the edginess, a lot of stuff in Invincible just seemed really tryhard-y for me.
That nonsense with Robot and rudy and Rex, the power inconsistencies, the fact that many of Invincible's Earth villains (as well as alien villains) are kind of ineffectual barring Viltrumites, that is.
Also Mark is kind of bland.
I feel like people just like it because it has blood in it a lot.

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>>90697835
Problem is, he didn't STOP being a remorseless killer when he got Robin. Hell, he straight up kidnapped the boy, mowed over police officers, then locked him in a dungeon and forced him to eat rats.

>>90698245
Uh, dude, it's just realistic

Don't you like realistic superheroes?

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Did Strange ever had a no kill rule in the comics? I know he fucked over that one guy so hard but did he ever outright kill?

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>>90696824
>But he's going to kill more people. AGAIN!

And you know this, how? Killing because "well he MIGHT kill again" is dumb as shit.

>>90698214
>I'm still not sure he's really dead.

I would lose my shit so hard if at the end of the series, Robot was taken out by an undercover Shapesmith who had managed to survive and bide his time for the perfect opportunity to save the world.

>>90698339
What if it's The Joker?

>>90692935
killing is only acceptable if
>there is no other option
>all other options have been exhausted
>the killing is being delivered by a duly authorized person
>there is a clear and present danger, that may immediately cause fatal harm
>is never used as a precedent to justify killing in the future
>is subject to investigation to determine if the action was justified afterwards, and have the killer answer for it
if even one of these is missing, dont kill

>>90698345
You think Rex is even going to be the final boss? I can't imagine it.

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>>90697980
>Invincible is probably the best cape comic out there

It's edgy schlock of the worst kind. It's Spider-Man with constant shock value, hardly original.

>>90698401
super heroes have super powers, and must be held to a super high standard

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>>90698501

>>90698435
No, but it'd be a hilariously awesome little bonus bit.

>Freddie's down, everyone is celebrating
>Robot still playing King of Earth, the heroes aren't happy about it but everyone has pretty much accepted it as the uneasy status quo.
>Suddenly one of the background characters fucking rips his fucking head clean off, turns out it's based Shapesmith and he's fucking beaming because "I did it guys, I saved the Earth!"
>Nobody knows whether to celebrate or not, end series.

>>90698401
>>the killing is being delivered by a duly authorized person

So if a baby is being eaten and you have a gun don't shoot?

>>90698579
goddamn, I could actually see that happening.

>>90692935
I'm more of a frozen forever kinda guy

>>90697260
I wish they just make up some explanation of Joker's 'immortality'.
Reveal that Batman was hypnotised/programed/enchanted to never kill Joker.
Make him have some cosmic guardian, constantly editing his fate to prevent his death.
Make Joker himself be some kind of universal constant, without whom all universe will collapse.

Or even make all of the history of the Gotham to be some irreal scene.

>>90696633
I thought Arthur tries to kill Manta

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>>90698339
>And you know this, how? Killing because "well he MIGHT kill again" is dumb as shit.
Because his name is Killomaster 500 and he makes a habit of killing 500 people every time he escapes from super jail.

>>90698599
self-defence is an extenuating case, and may count as proper authorization if you are the only one in the room capable of doing so

>>90698401
>killing is being delivered by a duly authorized person
I think I know what you mean, but that sounds fascist as fuck

>>90698643
in that case, the villain should be taken to court, and have him be legally executed after a trial

>>90698311
Doctor Strange is
a) a good man
b) a master of the black arts
c) a warrior on the frontlines of Earth's magical war

So while he doesn't kill lightly, he does kill. When someone broke into the Sanctum and shot Wong, he didn't kill him... he sent him direct to Hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.

The no-kill rule only holds up when the law actually works to put away/punish the murderers and such but in the comics where these super-villains break out all the time and escape prison/death through mental hospitals it really doesn't seem to work out

>>90698691
well it's a lot more understandable for a cop or a soldier to kill a criminal, then for a civilian to do so

since, in theory, a cop has a better understanding of the law and has been properly trained in the proper use of both lethal and non lethal ways to take down a suspect, and thus has better judgement not only when to use lethal force, but also how to to do so in the proper way, and has more alternatives to it

not always true, cops are still falliable humans, but that's the idea

>>90692935
Well I feel that taking the law and matters of life and death into one's hands extend out of the boundaries of someone who has superpowers and feels motivated to help others because of it. If they're working for the government or military and have permission to do so, or they are being attacked personally in their own house and they and what they hold dear are at stake, then I feel that it'd be justified. I'm saying this as an American, though.

I think that it can be a problem, though, because then you do get things like the Joker that people complain about where he's popular enough to come back for more stories so there's little to no logic how someone with higher power and authority don't have him completely on lockdown, put him to death, or shot him to another universe or some kind of Negative Zone.

>>90696315
I'm 99% sure I saw a panel of spidey building it himself.

>>90699041
>Bugle takes a picture of it
>"Is Spider-man a racist?"

>>90697846
Goku's murdering in DB always seemed somewhat unintentional.

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>>90698401
>the killing is being delivered by a duly authorized person
Gotcha covered.

>>90697846
He gave Frieza the option to leave after the battle, and didn't try to kill him until after he refused. He gave Cell a senzu bean after their fight so his son could have a turn.

>>90697921
Agreed. He is an idiot who loves to fight, and nothing else. We're all just lucky that he has a seemingly endless supply of evil aliens to fight against.

>>90698753
It's weird that he had a better way of conveying that he doesn't want to take another life again in the movie compared to DCEU Superman.

>>90698753
>he sent him direct to Hell
This is fun, but I fucking hate it when anti-murder heroes pull crap like this or let it happen with a blase expression.

It's half the reason I couldn't really get into Dr. Who. Killing's right out but fates infinitely worse than death are just peachy keen.

>>90700382
>"I don't kill."
>'HE TRAPPED HER IN A MIRROR. EVERY MIRROR."

>>90695354
I believe you're right. Batman was already anti-gun before WWII ended.

No Killers make sense in comic books because death is almost never final so it's better to just keep them in a place where you know where they are as long as you can.

Killers in comics tend to be ineffective edge masters not really super heroes.

>>90699702
I laughed.

>>90698339
A ton of villains in Batman's rogue gallery kills people over and over again. Either they get sent to jail or Arkham asylum, then they break out and do the same shit. I get where you're coming from but after the 12th time they do it, it's time to stop and think.

>>90693374
>/threading your own post

can't let the thread die before telling you to fuck off

>>90698054

Well he totally murdered that kid in OP's pic, he was totally restrained, not really a threat anymore.
Mark's increasingly gray morality is pretty interesting point in the book

>>90695108
>Are you seriously getting mad at a guy whose entire shtick is that he's emotionally scarred by guns?

The scene would be more compelling if we hadn't seen Bruce use a fucking gun in the same series.

>>90701326
that's the cities fault for not doing something about it

it is firmly outside batmans jurisdiction, snd he cannot be blamed, he is already doing more than his fair share just catching them

>>90703116
>it is firmly outside batmans jurisdiction

Batman has no jurisdiction. He's an unaccountable, unlicensed vigilante.

>he is already doing more than his fair share just catching them

He could do a lot more if he plowed his "dress up like a bat and beat up poor people" fund into contributions to GCPD. That batwing could pay for a lot of cops.

>>90693411
I always hated that shit. They bend over backwards to not even scratch a human because Muh higher lifeforms and then 2 minutes later they tear some alien in two and beat off its friends with the corpse

>>90693411
>>90703223
What? I've never seen either of them do that with aliens, even during, say, the Skrull invasions.

On the other hand, they both seem to have to problem destroying sentient robots because they've not "alive".

>>90692935
in batman beyond, terry indirectly kills at least 5 people like the guy that killed his father. Bruce has done that a few times too

I like it a lot but the concept is sabotaged by the writers' desire to bring back repeating villains and the escalate the problems those villains create.

I want more residents of Arkham to reform.

>>90703204
>Batman has no jurisdiction.
Wrong. Batman has the power in Gotham, both physically and economically, if he wishes to, he could create as many jurisdictions as he wants.

>>90692935
>alien kid tells me how he will murder my daughter.
>proceeds to try to kill me
>holds me back while I try to save my daughter from freefall death
>yeah, i'm totally let this little sadist live so he will try and kill me or worse, my daughter.
>nah.

>>90703204
>Batman has no jurisdiction. He's an unaccountable, unlicensed vigilante

And he would be hunted down immediately if he started killing people. The only reason he's even remotely effective is because he's closely connected with the police and does everything he can to help them.

>>90692935
Effort should be made to avoid killing, but sometimes you're going to find a guy who so crazy that he should be stopped at whatever cost is needed. Insane, drugged, whatever. He's not going to sit down and talk it over, he's going to keep swinging an ax. You can't wait to buy a metal gladiator net on Ebay and throw it over him. He's caused the situation, not you. You shouldn't want to kill, but if it's the only way to stop better people from dying, you have to take action, even if it's ill advised.

>>90694366
based brazil

>>90694822
Anyone that has committed first degree murder and has the means to do so again

>>90695038
>he fucks up the train so it can't stop

That was Ra's. His sword is embedded in the control panel.

>>90696270
X-men. Only the most vile enemies don't eventually join the X-men

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>>90700382
>anti-murder heroes stop the pro-murder hero from killing
>pro-murder hero doubles down and gives the villain a lifetime of torture instead

>>90694095
>I DO need it and I DO use it.

Reminder that Superman didn't approve of Tommy Monaghan killing people but he understood why he did it and didn't judge him for it.

Batman was the one that went full autismo REEE THIS MAN IS A KILLER.

>>90696932
That could be a great horror comic. The side kick finds out but is scared of what would happen if he let the hero know.

>>90694476
>Superman has to choose to save one bad guy or 100 good guys

Morrison/Joe Casey Superman would try to save everyone because hes a little buddha that literally feels the interconnectiveness of all living things and then fail because you're a horrible person stacking the deck against him so you can wank to your own feelings of moral superiority. He feels like shit and beats himself over it, think the "You're Superman and you aren't going to save me" scene from Hitman.

Max Landis/John Byrne/Goyer Superman kills the one bad guy to save the 100 good guys.

I'm fine with characters having a no-kill policy if it makes sense for their character, but it's stupid when they try to force it on others especially if they are unironically portrayed as having a moral high ground.

>>90694714
>>90694915
>>90694952
>I always found heroes that have to shoulder the burden much more appealing

The thing about Superman is that he's supposed to be man at his best. The idea behind him is that absolute power doesn't corrupt a man, it makes him great because he's free of anxieties and limitations. He won't have to compromise his morality with circumstance because he's creative enough to think up a solution to any problem and strong enough to bring it about.

You know that if you were in whatever philosophy-class life or death puzzle you want to put Superman in that you would compromise your morality to kill the bad guy and save the good guys. You know that you wouldn't have the intelligence or creativity to think outside your binary choices. You know you don't have the power to save everyone.

So you sort of resent the idea of Superman because he will save the day and he will bring more than two solutions to any philosophy trap you can think of.

>>90695350
I always wondered how the cast deals with actual children like the Eldoran series murdering soldiers in Zakus.

>>90705662
i always loved the idea of cutting a third path in a dilemma
it is lovely triumph of ingenuity and creativity, defeating surrender and ennui to settle for the lesser ovil

>>90694562

>If he started killing people, he'd lose every friend he had in the GPD,

If he killed somebody like Scarecrow? Yeah, it'd make him an enemy of the police.

But the Joker? I mean, to be honest, with how corrupt the GPD is, I'm surprised some cop just doesn't claim self-defense and shoot the shit out of the Joker when he arrives to apprehend the Joker. That's how badly I think they would want for Joker to die.

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So there are some heroes everyone agrees shouldn't kill or should kill, people like Batman and Spider-man get brought up in these threads a lot.

What about Daredevil? Should he kill?

>>90705843
daredevil has killed before in some comics, and it didnt cause an uproar

netflix daredevil has also killed a few people, but it was legitimate self defence, that happened in the heat of combat and not against a downed and helpless foe

>>90705284
This is why Illyana was best X-baby.

It's a goddamn shame she never took Rahne's virginity.

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>It's a killing is the only way to make sure the bad guy never kills again thread,

Come on. It's a comic book, it's a world of infinite possibilities.

>B-But locking them up or crippling them or putting them in space jail would just mean the next writer lets them out.

And you think killing them is a permanent solution?

You kill Joker he'll just come back as an actual demonic clown with magic powers.

Stop acting as if killing ANYONE is a permanent solution in a comic book. The writers treat death with the same permanency they treat incarceration.

>>90692935

haha murderman is ending because nobody buys it

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>>90695348

>If we kill him, he wins

>Trudeau: If you kill your enemies, they win

Wow, I guess I know where Trudeau got inspired to say that bullshit. I didn't know he was a /co/nvict.

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>>90706412

>>90692935
id prefer if more focus was put on recovery for non dead villains. batman animated series wayne donates and financially supports recoverin villains

Was there ever an arc where Wolverine felt bad about killing people? Seems like he mostly had a "I do what I gotta do" attitude. Hell, I don't recall the other X-Men calling him out on that shit.

If I were Batman I wouldn't kill the Joker, but I'd definitely have "accidentally" paralyzed him or something after the first couple times.

>>90693723
Spider-man killed that one chick.
Sure it's closer to manslaughter but still the average Joe hasn't committed manslaughter.
And don't say that isn't brought up both Slott and JMS have brought it up at least once.

Isn't the whole point of killing leads to the middle ages of kings. In today's world we have a judicial system and trial.

It's gonna be judge dred with super powers

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>>90692935
>scenes where the cops are present
>they regularly shoot at the bad guys, clearly with intent to kill
>not a problem, nothing to see
>hero gets a chance to do the exact same thing
>"STOP! IF YOU KILL HIM YOU'LL BE JUST LIKE HIM"

>>90706703
a cop doesnt have super powers, and is far weaker than a super villain, he is justified in using lethal force against him

a super hero is strong, usually depicted as an equal to the villain, and has a real chance to take them villain alive, and there is a distinction between "oops i shot him while he charged now he is dead" and "he has been subdued now i will execute him to ensure he cant get back up"

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>>90695278
Optimus killing ____trons in any incarnation will always seem to be the most controversial amongst fans.

>>90706554
There was that one page in Injustice where Nightwing (I think) died getting bataranged to the head and then falling to a piece of rock that cracks his spine or something and it got me thinking, how many henchmen has Batman accidentally paralyzed anyway?

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>>90706703
>>90706727

So where does that put Savage Dragon?

>>90694638
Gwen

The no kill policy is the essence of the super hero.

Without it, all you have is strangely attired vigilantes.

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>>90695278
Haha oh shit, Soundwave got the same "I know" treatment form Prime way back.

Are there any other comics where the main character just stop giving a shit, like in Invincible? He had principles in the beginning, but they were beaten out of him. But who could blame him? The "No-Kill" policy is asinine, because killing in and of itself is not wrong. To believe otherwise would be believing in a black and white world where context doesn't exist, and consequences for one's actions aren't accounted for.

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>>90692935
I don't mind at all. 'specially from dis guy.

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>>90692935
it only works if the villains hold a similar policy. Otherwise it goes full Batman retarded where you are going out of your way to keep alive monsters.

>>90707200

20 something episodes on why nokill doesn't work except for superpowered autists

>>90693596
But that's the thing. People are never 100% in agreement. Harley for example would say that the Joker doesn't deserve to die.
"But she's insane too" you could say, but now you've started grouping the people who disagree with you as wrong.

Batman killing the Joker takes the responsibility of that choice out of the hands of the people. It also sets a precedent.
After the Joker is gone, the second worst criminal is now the number one enemy.
Should Batman kill that one too? And the one after that? And the one after that?

>>90707571
>Batman killing the Joker takes the responsibility of that choice out of the hands of the people.

It's not in the hands of the people. Most people would probably prefer if he died, doesn't matter if they would kill him themselves or not. Law enforcement officials are the ones who are desperate to maintain power even though all of their jerbs are being taken by one guy in a fursuit.

>>90693294
I think it's a personal thing more but also a matter of ability. Gordon has been known to shoot and kill when necessary but that nessessity comes only because he's not the peak of human fitness like Batman so he can't pull off the same non lethal approaches. Batman can so he does everything in power to resist killing.
Even if the Joker had been responsible for raping a bunch of people to death, Batman would just break every bone in his body at the very most. But kill him? he thinks people can change and they can't do that when they're dead

>>90706474
Well, Trump's not wrong there.

>>90697299

Vegeta killed Recoom, Burter and Jeece.

>>90707646
>he thinks people can change and they can't do that when they're dead

This is the most retarded faggoty shit a person can delude themselves into believing. I don't hate Batman himself, but people aren't intrinsically good and there's no evidence to believe as such or there wouldn't need law and order to keep people from doing things like raping children and animals.

If only *some* people are intrinsically bad and that's what cause them to do these things, the morally sound option is to kill them. So it's a catch 22.

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I think it would be hilariously fitting for a a supervillain to be gunned down and left for dead by a self-defending civilian or police officer.
No fanfare, no monologue, just maimed without ceremony.
Perhaps let the villain live for a bit while the blood drains away.

Sadly most stories prefer the villains to die at a hero's hands more often than not.

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>>90702877
preemptive self defense

>>90692935
Fine as long as it comes across as an expression of genuine principled mercy that's a consistent part of the character's personality and not as an isolated code standards holdover that manifest as a weird neurosis a la the worst Batman writing

You wouldn't have comics lasting over 6 months if they killed every last supervillian

>>90707685
Criminals can and do rehabilitate. Obviously not all of them.The Joker is too mentally unfit to reform but Batman always holds out hope that he can choose to.

Superman has killed Zod before in the comics because he was such a dirtbag but also of sound mind so it was necessary to stop him.

>>90707724
if the police were able to handle supervillains, there would be no need for super heroes

no body wears bright colored spandex, and proclaims themeselves lord of all cosmos, and proceed to commit daylight robbery if they werent confident in their ability to wipe out a small army

>>90695483
Even if that's true, how the fuck can you tell who it is? In case you haven't noticed, humanity doesn't have the best track record deciding who deserves it.

>>90707724
>Joker finally dies.

>Not from Gordon or Batman or one of the other villains, but some random woman managing to pull her licensed gun because she just happened to be there, one of his own victims.

>>90700129

>Comparing American states to European nations

I see whoever wrote that doesn't know much about the world outside America.

>>90707758
>Criminals can and do rehabilitate

I mean, I know, but no one is clamoring for people who evade taxes or sell pot to be killed. Obviously they're not hurting anybody.

Violent sociopaths who hurt random people or animals for luls, yes, kill them, you can't polish a turd.

>>90707817
Not everyone that kills multiple people is a violent sociopath. Sociopathy depends very much on personality. Serial killers will be because they need to manipulate people and struggle to empathise with them. Some guy who robs a convenience store and then kills some cops getting away was probably just desperate rather than rotten.

>>90707856
I know that ... Although, from the police's perspective, they'd rather have you kill yourself or suck dick for money than rob a 7-11.

>>90707043
...How did he survive that? Are heads ancillary?

>>90707807
It's really not about the person in question who is to be killed, it's about keeping them away from the public. That's why everyone on "death row" gets to eat on the people's tax dollars so they all can feel safe as they rot in a jail cell and feel good about living in a country that doesn't kill anyone.

>>90707724
I'd want either that, or them getting taken out by another supervillain who's either got a more rigid moral code for his villainy(just don't take a villain who doesn't have one, like Norman suddenly turning good) or has some other plans that require them out of the way.

If we take Batman as the template then it'd be a story where he has to figure out who killed the Joker, investigating his own batbrood, Gotham cops, survivors from his antics and the loved ones of the ones he killed etc. etc. etc... And then in the end it'd turn out that another random villain who isn't as chaotic got told about his new plan to nuke Gotham and just instinctively killed him to stop it, because that's just too insane. Or Lex did it to keep Batman busy while he takes down the rest of the JL.

>>90697754

It was already dead, I think.

>>90692935
you are only allowed to kill if their is a clear and present danger, same reason SWAT officers are not allowed to shoot a person, even an armed one, unless their weapon is drawn

if there is anything less than an imminent threat to your person, than there is no reason to use lethal force, and a superhero generally has superpowers, vastly increasing the amount of force needed to qualify as a "threat"

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>>90707967

>>90707926
TFs can survive for a bit minus their heads, they got him out quick enough

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>>90707926
If the actual brain isn't damaged enough and they can get medical attention fast enough, shit like that is survivable.

>>90693730
this

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>>90707422
That's what makes it good, though.

>>90707926
Depends on the continuity. Here Soundwave got lucky vital organs weren't damaged, but in other universes you can lose your head just fine as long as your physical soul ball isn't damaged

>>90707967
/thread

>>90707967
>implying police follow those rules

If a character doesn't want to kill and usually does their best to not have to kill (Flash, Superman, Spiderman, etc) I'm more than fine with that, and it can be a bit inspiration to always strive for good.
If a character is willing to use a deadly art to end an evil (katana, punisher, etc) then that's fine but eventually you'll end up with the rest of the heroes being like "did ya have to stab the terrorist? We practically had him trapped" which can be done well but can easily be done poorly.

I think now days the only superhero in comics who purely hasn't tried to kill anyone/anything is Batman.
Which is still a lil dumb if ya over analyze it but still can make a good story of a man trying to solve the puzzle of "I do I defuse this problem and end this fight WITHOUT killing."

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>>90706410

>>90706882
On a milk carton because nobody has seen his obscure ass in years?