>Well I think there’s multiple factors. What I will say

>>90688537
Okay but are the fights cool? That's all that it would bring to the table honestly. Unless the characters and interactions are REALLY REALLY good. I doubt it though. TV is dead and has been for a long time. I'm really sad because the old cape shows were so great.

>>90688537
>What I will say is these shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans.

I've got the strangest feeling of Deja Vu.

Guess I should just turn my brain off, huh Marvel?

>>90688643

The fights are apparently generic and it's painfully obvious when they use a stunt double for Danny.

>>90688537
>its not made for the critics its made for the fans
They say this shit Every. Fucking. Time. And it's bever ever once been convincing.

>>90688537
Why will no one just say if the kung fu is good or not.

Somehow the news about the showrunner behind the last 3 seasons of Dexter taking on Iron Fist and Inhumans got by everybody.

>>90688694

They do. It's not good.

>>90688537
This was literally the fucking BvS defense

>>90688537
oh man every last picture marvel has used to promote this thing really scream SUPER HERO COMICS to me

>>90688537
Not much else a lead actor can say in this situation desu. A bit of a wasted question.

>>90688726
Does that mean Iron Fist is kino?

>>90688649
That's because they always say that whenever something is critically panned.

>>90688774
Maybe
But I don't trust Netflix with kung fu after the debacle that is Green Destiny, so who knows

>>90688694
Kung-Fu Kingdom (who review action movies and fights) gave it a glowing review. They liked how Danny's style was different to Matt, and they talked Colleen, too. They also really loved Danny and compared his "childlike" personality to Aang.

>>90688537
>made for the fans
>won't use the suit

>>90688774
Considering "muh SJW reviewers" is sure to appeal to /tv/, that seems like a safe bet.

>>90688746
I feel sorry for him, people were gunning for him since he was cast. Some can be a bit sadistic.

>>90688682
Which is funny, because this always seems to be the argument from shows and movies that are embarassed of the source material, and shit on the fans.

>Costumes are ghey
>Magic is Ghey
>Fun is Ghey
>Proper characterization is Ghey
>Comics are hard Ghey

WE DID IT FOR THE FANS! Just not those fans. Or the other ones. Ok, we did it to reel in casuals, and even they hated it...

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>>90688893
>fans of the comic books

>>90688889
>Which brings us to the action, and it must be said, it’s another win for the Marvel-Netflix team-up! As a reader of both characters, I appreciated how much it differs from Daredevil in the most appropriate of ways – stylistically, Daredevil, and by extension his series, is akin to a Ninja, whereas Iron Fist is more of a Shaolin Monk, and Danny’s fighting style reflects that perfectly. By the same token, Colleen is more of a Samurai (she even references Bushido at several points), and the series is cognizant to have her fight scenes reflect that. She actually snags a few of the best parts of the earlier episodes where she participates in some underground MMA fights, and she also puts her students at her dojo through some really creative exercises.
>Aside from Colleen’s MMA fights, Danny also really shines in his first skirmish with some pursuing thugs during a parade in Chinatown and a hallway fight against a gang of axe-wielding attackers that moves into an elevator.
>However, the best episode of the series’ initial batch is its sixth, “Immortal Emerges from Cave”, directed by none other than RZA of the Wu-Tang Clan. In order to rescue a kidnapping victim, Danny is forced to enter a kind of underground tournament that’s actually something he’s participated in before in K’unLun. The three fights he participates in here are easily the best of the first six episodes, especially the last one, and Iron Fist fanboys will absolutely be doing somersaults at who Danny’s second opponent was. Additionally, this episode is seriously steeped in the concepts of tradition and ritual that are such a big part of martial arts, a very welcome touch for a character as steeped in the traditions of martial arts and Asian culture as Danny is indeed!

Is the MMA fight scene the scene we got a sneak peek at? Because it relly wasn't that good.

>>90688677
>>90688723
That's too bad. They could have had a real opportunity for a show with interesting battles and low budget special effects. I always thought Iron Fist was cool but was never motivated to read his comics. Oh well.

>>90688960
Have there been any adaptations that clearly were made for the fans (like, I dunno, Deadpool?) that were critically panned?

>they are first and foremost made for the fans.

I am a fan and I have absolutely NO interest in this show.

First because the showrunner is hot garbage. Second because the trailers gave no impression of an interesting tone or narrative thrust, especially considering Claremont's kung-fu craze and Brubaker's pulp has plenty of material to draw from. Third because the reviews have been resoundingly negative.

>>90688651
And keep it in a piranha aquarium.

>>90689070
Batman v. Superman.

>>90689035

Anon, that is from http://kungfukingdom.com who give it a glowing review simply on the basis that it's a kung-fu show.

No other critics have said the fight scenes are anything but a snooze

>>90689035
It didnt look good to me either, but some one said the longer version is better. We'll see.

>>90689163

>>>/tv/
>>>/trash/

>>90688537
Cool. So he thinks it's good that morons are the only people who might like it? The Netflix thing is also invalid because those same critics reviewed those other shows too.

>>90689222
tumblr.com

>>90689169
I dunno, they seem to specifically like the fight scenes, which I wouldn't expect from someone who watches kung fu movies.

>>90689249

Pretty sure people are just trying to discuss comics and comic adaptations without your crybaby temper tantrums

>>90689204
Yeah it could have been overedited for the teaser. We'll seee indeed.

>"made for the fans"
>but doesn't use suit
>but doesn't have mysticism
>but doesn't have Shou-Lao
>but doesn't have his powers beyond a couple small scenes
>"made for the fans"

>>90689304
Anon made a point related to the thread. You told him to go to /tv/.

Who's really doing the "discussion" here?

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>I’m playing a white American billionaire superhero, at a time when the white American billionaire archetype is public enemy No. 1, especially in the US,” he said. “We filmed the show way before Trump’s election, and I think it’s very interesting to see how that perception, now that Trump’s in power, how it makes it very difficult to root for someone coming from white privilege, when that archetype is public enemy No. 1.”

Shitstorm incoming in 3.... 2... 1...

>>90689372

Race baiting is not a point related to the thread.

>What I will say is these shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans.
Damage control kek

>I also think some of the reviews we saw were seeing the show through a very specific lens
True.

>I think it’s a fantastic show which is really fun and I think it stands up there with the other Defenders’ shows without a doubt
I don't know, Finn. To be honest I lost all my hype after they said there wouldn't be a costume.

>>90689374
Tell that to Lego Batman.

>>90689402
>In this case though we shouldn't forget that the very same websites, like Hollywood Reporter, Comic Alliance, Verge wrote previous articles about how Danny is super racist/problematic, and how he should be Asian-American.

Source on every negative review also wrote previous articles on race shit?

I will still watch it and judge it for my self. I hope that is not complete trash.

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>it's for the fans
>no costume
>no Shou-Lao
>Kun'Lun is just a bunch of snow banks

>>90689455
Anything Batman is bound to sell. You can say whatever about BvS and SS quality but at the end of the day they made money. Admittedly SS success is thanks to Joker and Harley, but Batman always draws.

>>90689374
Hes not wrong. Normalfags only care about shit they see I social media. The fact that anyone but an Asian I doing kung fu is also hurtful to "current year" fags

>complaining that an actor is defending his TV show
Jesus, of course he's defending it.

>>90689418
the thread is about reviews. he said the critics started the "spat" with finn with the content of their reviews. he then said finn was playing their game.

it's completely on topic faggot. just tell him he's wrong if you disagree. maybe why he's wrong too.

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>>90689035
>MMA
>kung fu
This ticks me off more than others
I want to see some style over substance fighting like they do in Mainland Chinese dramas, not some second rate "real fighting"

>>90688537
I bet it gets better the more times you watch it too

>>90688952
I'm not a fan of the casting but these sort of interviews are pretty mean. Obligatory in a way, but you ask it fully expecting the actor to squirm uncomfortably and deliver awkward publicist-written responses.

>>90688643
since when is Netflix TV?

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>>90688537
> I will say is these shows are not made for critics

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>>90689374
I mean, he's not entirely wrong, but the evil rich white guy thing predates Trump's presidency by decades, it was always Iron Fist's challenge to be liked despite coming from a background tons of villains are made of. The Netflix shows themsleves feature that villain stereotype in Kingpin.
Fuck that's basically the meta premise of Iron Man: they chose to make him rich and vain because it was a nice challenge to write him well enough that you'd root for him despite that.

If the show is good enough, people should be able to go beyond their prejudices. It's not like TV shows haven't had people root for legitimate assholes before.

>>90688960
you got a problem saying gay

>>90689469
I'm just saying the negative cloud may have affected them, maybe not.

>>90689531
>of course he's defending it.
But who defends the defenders?

This is karma for wasting Scott Adkins in Strange as a mook

>>90688651
>Marvel

>Ever being something you have to think about.

All of it is just mindless dribble.

>>90689794
>Capes are all just mindless dribble
FTFY

>>90689696
This is karma for wasting Mads in Strange as forgettable villain #5658

Although if he returns to portray Dormammu with a physical body I'll forgive them.

>>90689839
>Although if he returns to portray Dormammu with a physical body I'll forgive them.
>Implying Dormammu won't be forgettable villain #78451

>>90688537
oh wow, he's gone full Zack Snyder

>>90689873
>implying Dormammu won't be the next Loki
You just wait and see.

>>90689885
He wishes.

>Its for the fans
So they are trying to use Synder's excuse huh?

>>90689839
>This is karma for wasting Mads in Strange as forgettable villain #5658

This is karma for wasting every amazing actor they've had in forgettable villain roles including American treasure Robert Fucking Redford.

>>90689929
This is basically the Snyder Cycle

>"X is not for critics"

I guess fans can't discuss things, than.

>>90688677
>>90688643

A kung fu series with bad fighting is completely pointless.

>>90689959
>This is karma for wasting every amazing actor they've had in forgettable villain roles including American treasure Robert Fucking Redford
Most of them are offered a small role and a big check to come and perform in a movie though. Do you really think Kurt Russell is up for another 3 Guardians movies?

>>90689957
See? You just had to wait a bit, now Marvel is copying DC.

>>90689621
we should make a chart detailing all the excuses creators make

>>90690012

That doesn't mean they have to be terrible bland one dimensional characters.

>>90689959
I really don't get this complaint. We'll probably only get 3-5 movies per character. Do you really want the villains to survive and keep coming back? They don't have time to keep a rogues gallery building and showing back up again through movies.

Would you really rather each property be like Thor where we just keep getting Loki?

>>90690004
Not really, that's a very specific wish for a character I like.

Nobody gets hyped for new villains in Marvel movies (bar Thanos which doesn't really count in this situation), otherwise we'd have multiple threads about Keaton Vulture, Ego or Hela claiming they'll be the next Loki.

>>90690083
>flustered capebaby
No one with actual reputation is going to bother to put real effort in something that sells on brand alone.

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>>90689885
>>90689957
>>90690004
Want to talk about it?

>>90690084
>Would you really rather each property be like Thor where we just keep getting Loki?
Not a good example since Loki is the only good part of Thor movies.

>>90689035
>Underground MMA fights.
God those are so fucking cringe.
And they haven't been a thing since the early oughts and nineties because if you're actually any good coaches in New York will drive you to Jersey to fight in sanctioned ones.

Why not just have her participate in a gym war?

>>90688537
>these shows are not made for critics
Cameos by Twisp and Catsby when

>>90690084
The point is for the villain to have at least the same level of characterization as the hero, or at least the second most characterization
Otherwise the hero might up well beat up a bunch of faceless goons every movie.

I mean, do you ever think any of the villains in MCU was ever a threat? Did you ever think for even a split second that the villain might win throughout the movie?

>>90690136
>No one with actual reputation is going to bother to put real effort in something that sells on brand alone.

This attitude is how you poison a brand

>>90690274
Pro tip: Hollywood is literal cancer.

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All I can tell from the trailers is that Iron Fist looks like it shares many similar elements with Arrow.
To me it looks like Arrow with perhaps more talented writers and a budget.
I am 100% on board with that.
I'm imagining the thing people are taking issue with is that the protagonist doesn't seem to have a lot of plight.
>He isn't some blind catholic who's dad was murdered by the mob.
>He isn't some abused woman.
>He isn't black.
Yada yada that dare devil post about tragedy.jpg but for an wide audience some kind of clear struggle helps a lot.
I don't care too much personally because for me a hero doesn't need to be consumed by tragedy for me to give a shit.

>>90689617
You know what I mean.

>>90689374
Is it that hard to believe that white billionaires can be good people?
Fucking hell.

>>90690256
>I mean, do you ever want any of the villains in MCU to win? Did you ever think for even a split second that the villain deserved to win throughout the movie?
ftfy, my retard friend.

Did you really think Lex would win? Did you really think Apolcalypse was gonna get away with his plan? Do you actually think Ares is going to beat Wonder Woman?

>>90690372
Dude have you seen the shit people say about people that SIMPLY VOTED for trump?

>>90690372
Batman, Iron Man, Green Arrow, Ted Kord, Lex Luthor.

>>90690437
>d-dude we trumpers are also frowned upon!!!
You're as bad as SJW, m8.

>>90688537
>they are first and foremost made for the fans.

Oh that can't be good, they said the same thing with Suicide Squad.

"Made for the fans" should be the film and television equivalent to "Widening the demographics"

>>90690437

What does that have to do with wealth?

A great deal of the people that shit on Trump and Trump supporters love extremely wealthy whites like Bill Gates and Elon Musk and Mark Cuban

>>90690463
You just made my point.

I wasn't defending a trump voter. I'm simply saying look at how riled up people get. You immediately attacked me for even using it as an example.

And you dont even appear to be a SJW. That's how divisive the world we live in is.

You couldn't have made my point any better.

>>90690536

I couldn't give a fuck to read the comment chain to figure out if you're SJW or /pol/ or neither but you're worse than all of them because you're a smug cunt

>>90690536
Calling you on your victim complex after dozens and dozens of this kind of shit in a board where it doesn't belong in the first place doesn't equate to dumb people thinking all rich people are automatically evil, dumbfuck.

>>90690534
Those are poor white people (according to memes). If they can hate poor white people for just voting you think they're going to be able to root for a rich white guy who according to some represents cultural appropriation and imperialism?

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Ben, is that you?

>>90690256
>I mean, do you ever think any of the villains in MCU was ever a threat? Did you ever think for even a split second that the villain might win throughout the movie?
No. But I'm not sure why you specify the MCU for that. Between the MCU, the X-Men films, the 5 Spidey movies, the 7 Batman movies, the 5 previous Superman movies ... I never once thought the bad guys were going to win.

I'll admit the MCU has had some real duds for villains. Maleketh is a prime example. But others, like Stane and Hammer, Red Skull, Blonsky, Loki ... I thought they were fine. Are they the best villains ever? Obviously not, but I'm more than fine with one-and-done bad guys at the end of the day.

>>90690463
What makes you think he's a trumper? Do you know that anon personally?

>>90690595

Why wouldn't people who hate Trump hate the people responsible for him being President? Why wouldn't people who hate Obama hate the people responsible for him being President?

What the fuck are you even arguing?

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>>90690402
Way to impose your opinions onto mine you knuckle-dragger
>I mean, do you ever want any of the villains in MCU to win?
No you moron, how the fuck is that what I said?
>Did you ever think for even a split second that the villain deserved to win throughout the movie?
Where does this notion of "deserve" comes into play? Does the hero "deserve" to win? What the fuck
>ftfy, my retard friend.
Yeah, you showed me.

>Did you really think Lex would win?
No, but he actually got Supes killed, so he did win.
>Did you really think Apolcalypse was gonna get away with his plan?
Of course not, Apocalypse was a shit villain just like most of MCU's problems
>Do you actually think Ares is going to beat Wonder Woman?
No, but I want Ares to be a mountain of a threat that Diana has to climb over, not pebble Diana can just kick away.

And what does other franchise's villains have to do with MCU's lack of good villains? You're just trying to drive the conversation away from the problem.

In fact, if you must use other examples, Ledger Joker was the go-to example of a good villain. Bane was a good villain because he got a victory over Batman. Fucking Ozy was a good villain because his plan forced everyone into a corner.

>>90688537
"Made for the fans" meas it's fucking terrible. Whenever they cater to the fans, anything goes straight to the shitter.

>>90690734
>No, but he actually got Supes killed, so he did win.
>believing this

>>90690733
Give me one good reason why you should have anyone who voted or likes a person you don't like.

>>90690839

wut

>>90690534
Nobody really loves Mark Cuban. Except maybe Dirk Nowitzki.

>>90688649
>I've got the strangest feeling of Deja Vu.
Nigger just went full Snyder! IT'S OGER!

>>90690167
On that note why even acknowedge MMA.

I don't know what it is with Kung Fu stuff these days but they always feel the need to acklowde and kind "oh this would work perfectly in that" even though MMA is kind of where Kung Fu went to die.

You don't have to do that. Into the Badlands just went Kung Fu is what works in this world so there you go.

Do that.

>>90690696
I specified MCU because I'm talking about MCU's problem. DCEU got much worse things to fix than its villains, but that's another topic for another time.
The point is that the villain should be a threat, something to overcome, not a minor nuance like Blonsky for 90% of his screen time. Stane and Red Skull were okay, but they weren't really a challenge, and Hammer and Whiplash were such an after thought. Yellow Jacket was serviceable, but at the end he didn't feel like a threat to Scott or Hank.
I'm not asking for a master keikaku villain either. I just want the hero to struggle a little more than overcoming just some personal flaw.

>>90690734
Way to miss the point of the post, bud.

My point was that with all the shared universes going on we all fucking know the villains aren't winning, read this guy's post >>90690696 too. So, judging villains with that metric is absolutely retarded. Do you even know what "ftfy" stands for my dear tourist?

I used other companies as examples to showcase this isn't only a MCU problem. And just like Lex and Bane, Zemo also "won".

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>>90688537
>these shows are not made for critics

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>>90691060
it happens

>>90690983
Man, you're dumb. Of course the stakes won't feel real because you know there's Cosmic Pantsu coming out in 2 years and the actor of Computer Man is starring on it.

>>90690983
>the villain should be a threat
Not the guy you're talking to but I genuinely don't understand what people mean by this. It's always so fucking vague, I have no idea what makes you people feel threatened.
And I goitta agree with the other guy, none of the consensus good villains in movies are a real threat either, I have no idea how you people separate "real threat" from "not a threat".

>>90688537
Marvel is crumbling.

>>90690855
Obviously meant hate instead of have.

>>90690784
but he did, its not his fault Superman is death-proof.

>>90691035
>>90690734
also we already know Ares more or less wins because whatever happens causes Wonder Woman to lose faith in Man for almost 1000 years.

>>90689374
Jesus, this guy's form is TOTAL shit. A child who just saw a kung fu movie can nail the proper form better.

>>90690839
They voted for or liked a person I don't.

Do you realize the internet is pettiness central, right? What do I win?

>>90690983
>I just want the hero to struggle a little more than overcoming just some personal flaw
Then you're in the wrong fucking hobby. 90% of the time in capeshit the villain is just there for something to punch. You listed TDK and Watchmen as two examples of villains being a threat, though honestly I'm not sure why Joker is on that list. Because he killed Rachel? If that's the case, then Hydra deserves the same spot because they killed (or whatever) Bucky.

>>90691354
Kinda a stretch. I'm not sure Ares' ultimate goal is to make Diana to not like the men's world.

>>90691120
Is the joke that the middle panel is better than the average PA comic? Because if that's the case ... true.

>>90691035
Yeah, I did read his post, and he makes your point better than you, hence >>90690983

>I used other companies as examples to imply MCU isn't culpable don't have to fix this problem
here, ftfy, friend

>>90691137
That's not an excuse for bad characterization.
>Oh hurr durr it's not gonna matter in the long run
Then what the fuck is the point of having this film then?

>>90691163
I can concede to your point. It's a vague thing to define indeed, but it can be also measured on case by case basis.
If you are single, a pedophile on the loose is probably not a threat, but if you are a parent, a pedophile on the lam is a scary thing.
Some insurgent in the middle of desert bumfuck is probably not a thread to your country, but a company with a chokehold over your trade routes is probably someone you don't want to anger

>>90691421
id still count fucking with Diana as a win, even if not a full win. Then again, maybe its Man's doing that makes her leave and not Ares at all.

>>90691459
the avergae PA joke is something something muh kids something.

>>90691334
So then he didn't. Maybe Lex thinks he did, and I guess Batman and Wonder Woman do too. But the viewer doesn't, so what's the point?

Even if it wasn't for the final shot showing that he's alive, everyone in the audience would've known that Superman didn't die.

>>90691504
> But the viewer doesn't, so what's the point?

Because its still part of the story? I knew Vader wouldn't ultimately win but I was still effected by Luke being thrown from Cloud City. I knew that Voldamort loses, but yet the ending of the second toe last Harry Potter movie still works fine. Hell, I know Jesus dies, so by your logic there is no point in making Passion of the Christ. Shit, the majority of The Planet of the Apes franchise takes place in a pre-determined timeline, doesn't make the stories any less.

>>90690953
Well, yeah...but that would make too much sense. Seeing this scrawny unskilled, homeless-looking loser, I wish they HAD cast an Asian in the lead.

>>90691473
There's no need to fix on that statement because it's true, m8. Prove the contrary otherwise.

If that anon made the point more clear for you then good. The important thing is that you realize how fucking retarded you are for judging an antagonist for its "threatness" alone, fucking spic.

>>90689374
But people like Batman

>>90688643
>implying Legion isn't god-tier
Great stuff is still coming out anon.

>>90691490
Then count Red Skull for winning too because he caused great pain to Steve by his minions "killing" Bucky.

>>90691699
nah, its different. At that point Red Skull didnt really have a relationship or rivalry with Cap. While Ares and Diana are like diametrically opposed forces in life, theological and thematic rivals on almost every level. MCU Red Skull was a chump.


And Cap is a soldier, he expects to lose his comrades, and Bucky's death didnt make him abandon the world for almost a hundred years.

>We didn't make this show for people who look at them objectively, they are first and foremost made for people who will ignore the flaws to justify their love of action figures.

>Some reviews we saw were seeing the show through the lens of it being a competent narrative, and I think when the idiots without taste view the show through the lens of just wanting to enjoy a show regardless of whats on the screen, then they will enjoy whatever you put in front of them

>I think its pretty shitty to be honest but it's just a fun superhero show really and I don't hold the other Defenders' shows in high regard so I really don't know why critics have singled out my show

Some of the reviews are bitching about miscasting, so idk. It might be decent. We'll just have to wait and see.

>>90691473
Pretty sure an artificial meteor obliterating Earth is a threat no matter how you look at it yet everymemey agrees that Ultron is unthreatening.
So I doubt that the problem comes from the relativity of the threat itself.

>>90691776
>opposed forces in life, theological and thematic rivals on almost every level
>implying Captain America and Red Skull aren't also this
And Diana wasn't expecting humans to be greedy merciless savages, or whatever that made her lose faith in humanity? And even if she did because she was ignorant of the outside world or whatever, the main goal of Ares wasn't to mess with Diana directly. He was minding his business and this random amazonian came to challenge him, they didn't have a personal beef.

If the spoilers are true his plan was to have the German general to unleash a bioquimic poison to cause more chaos, but in the end Steve and Diana stop him from achieving that and then she beats him with her super attack. Ares is not the Joker, he might take comfort in his actions hurting WW, but that definitely isn't a win. Maybe if she became some kind avatar of war by hating humanity for being mean you'd have a point but that wasn't the case.

You know. Kamen Rider Amazons was made with a budget of 10 bux in comparisons to a Netflix show, and I think it looks better.

>>90691881
It's all about characterization. If Ultron's plan was to steal 40 cakes that resonated with everyone as one bad motherfucker then you'd have everybody praising him, but instead he makes omelets and thinks in retrospect while trying to nuke the earth.

>>90691871

The miscasting is being brought up in only a handful of professional reviews and when it is it's brought up among the hundreds of other points about why this show is shit.

No real reviews are doing the SJW boogeyman IT'S SHIT CUZ HE'S WHITE garbage narrative that /tv/ peddles. They're saying that the lead is bland and terrible and unlikeable.

>>90690372
Because becoming successful in a cut-throat atmosphere demands a loose moral fiber, usually. Although no one ever seems to point out that most business owners, moguls, and billionaires tend to be Jewish.

>>90692087
>billionaires tend to be Jewish

You mean at most 1 in 10?

>>90692087
How do we stop the jews?

>>90692007
>implying Captain America and Red Skull aren't also this

Definitely not in the MCU. And like I said, nothing Red Skull did caused Cap to abandon humanity. I guess instead of saying Ares won, I should say Ares helped make it so Diana also lost.

>>90692187
I could say the same about Diana and Ares in the DCEU, but I can agree with your last line.

Now we just need to see how well executed it was.

>>90688537
KEK
How the tables have turned

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>>90688537
>made for the fans
>afraid of actually using the source material in case it scares off all the normalfags who want a grim and gritty action show to watch while they drink their moderately-priced wine and update their social media pages

>>90692312
>How the tables have turned
In what regard?

>>90692286
You're right, I am making assumptions about Ares and Diana in the DCEU when we havent even seen them yet.

>>90691563
>so by your logic there is no point in making
I never said anything of the sort. You were the one who said:

> Did you ever think for even a split second that the villain might win throughout the movie
as if that was some sort of indication of anything. Now if you're admitting that that's a stupid measurement, fine. Let's move on.

But to address this specific example, Lex didn't win anything. But if you are counting that as a win, then so did Red Skull. Cap "dies" at the end of his movie exactly the same way that Superman does at the end of BvS.

>>90693064
But the world didnt know or care that Cap died. In the world's eyes, Lex won and killed Superman. Its different. Hell, not even Red Skull knew Cap went missing, AND Red Skull died too. Lex just went to jail, but accomplished his goal of killing Superman. Red Skull's goal was never to kill Cap, he didnt even know he existed for most of the movie

If you cant see how they are different you are autistic.


And way to misrepresent my point, you were saying that it doesnt matter if Lex killed Superman because we as the audience know he will be back. I know Skywalker will be back, but it doesnt make Vader any less threatening or evil and it in no way lessens his victory in Empire. MCU villains never even have that much going for them, never do they accomplish their goal or even really come close to effecting the heroes lives (outside of Cap being Frozen, but thats part of his origin and even then he gets over it pretty fast).


Hell, Tony Stark does more evil in the world than most MCU villains.

>>90688537
>made for the fans
>Danny fucking Collen and not Misty
>No Dragon fight
>No costume
>no vengance
>(alegedly) weak fights

>>90693241
>never do they accomplish their goal or even really come close to effecting the heroes lives
I don't remember how much the public knew about the non-USO show Cap, but all of SHIELD knew he was gone and it fucked them up something good.

The first Iron Man ended with Tony completely changing his life and business.

Iron Man 3 was all about how the Avengers messed Tony up.

The first two acts of Avengers had Banner obviously shaken from his solo movie.

AoU put a huge rift in the team, and Zemo furthered that riff in Civil War.

As I said earlier, they're not perfect villains; the movies are more about the heroes. But there's still character development that is driven by the interaction with the bad guys.

>>90689374
>white billionaire heroes are hated
>looks at batman
>looks at iron man
>looks at green arrow

haha holy shit that deflection.

>>90693430
I guess you are not the kind of fan they want

>>90693241
>you were saying that it doesnt matter if Lex killed Superman because we as the audience know he will be back.
I hate it when people do this. You shouldn't use out-of-universe knowledge to attack in-universe decisions/reactions. People do this way too often against DCEU films.

>>90688537
>it stands up there with the other Defenders’ shows without a doubt
agree, jj and lc were fucking trash

Jessica Jones got better reviews than it deserved because it had Woke content.

Doctor Strange was a white-guy-fixes-everything story but got good reviews because it was reasonably entertaining.

Being dull *and* politically incorrect is just too much.

>>90693591
>because it was reasonably entertaining.
No.

>>90689035
His second opponent is going to be Bride of Nine Spiders, right? She's listed in the cast.

>>90693476
>it fucked them up something good.

No it didnt, please show me where this happen s.
>The first Iron Man ended with Tony completely changing his life and business.


Its a fucking origin movie, all of that happened regardless of Iron Mongerer. You could replace him with any villain and that would be the same thing. When Iron Man tried to fight him he had no problems.


>Iron Man 3 was all about how the Avengers messed Tony up.


Again proving that the heroes do more damage to their own lives than the villains.


>The first two acts of Avengers had Banner obviously shaken from his solo movie.


Again, nothing to do with the villain himself, but rather the public's response to him as the Hulk.


>AoU put a huge rift in the team, and Zemo furthered that riff in Civil War.


But that was all done by Tony, even if Zemo never showed up, the rift was still there.
Thanks for proving my point.

So if the show isn't good, isn't that just kind of the end of the conversation?

We already have TONS of street level horse shit. Iron Fist should be about Danny traveling the globe, righting wrongs, fighting other unique fighters from around the world, or at least traveling across the US to save on budget for the show. I mean, I get it, they want to team up Luke and Danny but fuck, this show has nothing to offer anyone.

>>90693643
yes.

>>90693685
Danny doesn't do that though. Most of his stories take place in either New York or occasionally K'un-Lun, via Tibet.

>>90693685
The big problem with all the Marvel Netflix shows is the idea that the whole season should be one long story.

This was already clearly a problem with Jessica Jones. You have a setup - superhero private eye - that was created to allow for short stories or arcs, and don't let her go on cases of the week. With the result that the season feels padded.

This idea that a show can't have standalone adventures if people are going to binge-watch has really gotten out of hand.

>>90693529
It's not attacking the in-universe reactions. Those are all perfectly justified. But from a storytelling standpoint, why would the viewer feel like Lex won? We know he didn't.

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>>90690351
>a hero doesn't need to be consumed by tragedy

>>90693681
>No it didnt, please show me where this happen s.
I'm sure I'll catch flak for even bringing it up, but watch Agent Carter. Sure, it's not in the movies, but it's literally the only chance we get to see these characters after the movie, because his sequel takes place 70 years later. We know from the movie though, that it -- at the very least -- affects Peggy, even if their romance subplot was way too rushed in the film.

>>90693809
I'm more than aware of that, but it needs something to differentiate itself from:
A) Handsome rich guy beats up villain of the week in an urban setting.
B) Young fast guy beats up villain of the week in an urban setting.
C) Muscular black guy beats up villain of the week in an urban setting.
D) Blind guy beats up villain of the week in an urban setting.

critics hate this because of the twitter controversy. It's just like when they called suicide squad the trump of capeshit because joker and harley had a "toxic" relationship

>>90693681
>>90694021
Whoops, forgot to finish responding.

> all of that happened regardless of Iron Mongerer. You could replace him with any villain and that would be the same thing
A big part of the arc was him realizing that Stane -- and therefore his company -- had been selling his tech to terrorists. Sure it "could've been anyone," but this is who it was.
> When Iron Man tried to fight him he had no problems.
Not even slightly true. The only reason Tony was able to win was because Stane couldn't take the altitude; his suit was overpowering Tony's.

>Again proving that the heroes do more damage to their own lives than the villains.
By "the Avengers" I mean the movie, not the people. The thing that messed him up was almost dying. You could say that it was the Security Council's fault, not Loki/Thanos/Chitauri, but that's still one of the antagonists.

>Again, nothing to do with the villain himself, but rather the public's response to him as the Hulk.
Which was all caused by the way the army came after him and tried to make him a weapon.

> even if Zemo never showed up, the rift was still there
But he did show up, and he drove it further. That was literally his whole plot. Without the Winter Solider stuff (which was orchestrated by Zemo), the rift would have been nothing like what it escalated to.

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>>90688537
can someone give me a rundown on why everyone is shitting on this show? so far through the thread all i've seen is anti-marvel shilling and some complaints about danny not wearing his suit.

>>90689548
That's impressive stunt work but its not very entertaining to watch. They're moving so fast that it just looks like a bunch of flailing.

>>90694296
I think it's sped up to make it fit filesize limits.

>>90693430

Anon, they took the time to explain that critics can't be fan. You must shut your brain off, only then can you enjoy the show.

>>90689621

A timetravelling Penny Arcade Strip is a weird kind of feel but it's nothing compared to the fact it makes sense for once. Plus it's almost funny.

>>90694252
everyone here or everyone everywhere else?

>>90693430
The fact that Danny is official gonna lose his virginity to Colleen is putting me off, desu.

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>>90694477
well here and lately there's been a few threads popping up complaining about low critic scores and what not.
i've been pretty hyped for it so i don't really get all the negative feedback.

>>90694582
well here I mostly see people being negative towards
>no costume
>the comment about Danny coming back to New York and not knowing who he is
>fights might be weak
>finn is a miscast
>no dragon
>no Luke and Danny
>something about kun-lun

everywhere else seems to be
>why isnt he asian or of asian decent?
>having asian supporting cast doesnt make this right
>weak fights

>>90690372
desu all billionaires are bad people, regardless of race

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>>90689136
>Baiting this hard
Mfw

>Well I think there’s multiple factors. What I will say is these shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans.

Where have I heard that before?

>Amy Adams: “I know that Zack doesn’t make the movies, and none of us are making the movies for the critics, so to speak, you can’t go into it from that perspective.

http://uproxx.com/filmdrunk/batman-v-superman-not-for-critics/

>>90694054
this

>>90688649
>I've got the strangest feeling of Dijon mustard

Fixed that for ya.

>>90689611
>you ask it fully expecting the actor to squirm uncomfortably and deliver awkward publicist-written responses
I remember the "sad Ben Affleck" video was a yahoo interview with the whole cast of DoJ, and when the yahoo dude was like "so have you guys read the reviews?" Cavill was like "No, what were they saying?" and then the interviewer got all awkward and skirted around it.

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>>90688537
>>Well I think there’s multiple factors. What I will say is these shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans.
>using the DCEU defense
Goddamn, this must be utter shit

>>90688719
Fuck those last seasons of Dexter were awful. I'm going to skip Iron Fist just because of that

>>90688537
And people refuse to believe the critics weren't paid by WB.

>>90688537
>they are first and foremost made for the fans.

Then WHERE. IS. THE. MASK?

>>90688774
kino seems to mean "really bad movie that i will pretend is art to get contrarian (you)s" so maybe

>>90688537
>What I will say is these shows are not made for critics, they are first and foremost made for the fans.

Ah yes, The Snyder defense

>>90690577
But you're also a smug cunt...

>>90689374
>>I’m playing a white American billionaire superhero, at a time when the white American billionaire archetype is public enemy No. 1, especially in the US,” he said.

Yeah, so is RDJ and people still love Batman. This isn't a good defense

>>90697108

I've worded this as if I think RDJ is playing Batman. Now I wonder what that would be like

>they are first and foremost made for the fans
Then maybe you could've tried having some decent fucking fight scenes and no banal romance between Colleen and Danny

>>90697108
Batman was popular long before this shit show started. Also, when Iron Man came out it wasn't nearly as bad as it has gotten now. Also, you have to keep in mind that the majority of the Iron Man movie is Tony self loathing over how much of a bad person he is for selling weapons and making a profit off of it.

>>90697197

And I'm sure Iron Fist will be about him lamenting how rich he is. He's desperate for excuses and it's obvious.

>>90692087
Don't you give me that holier-than-thou shit.