What do you think of the Twilight of the Superheroes pitch?

>>90494564
>The framing device of the story involves future versions of John Constantine and Rip Hunter travelling to the present day, ostensibly to prevent a serious disaster involving the superheroes of their time. The hook through which the series would connect with other titles is the attempts of the two time travellers to recruit others into their quest to alter the future through warning them of upcoming events. Individual books in the DC Universe could tie into the crossover or not, as their creators wished, by having Hunter or Constantine show up and warn the stars of the book of some event. The main narrative of the series involves Constantine relating the story of what has happened in the future to his present-day self over drinks in a bar.

>>90494578
>The series was set in the future of the DC Universe, where the world is ruled by superheroic dynasties, including the House of Steel (presided over by Superman and his wife Wonder Woman) and the House of Thunder (consisting of the Marvel Family) as well as houses built around the Teen Titans, the Justice League, and an alliance of supervillains. The houses of Steel and Thunder are about to unite through the dynastic marriage of Superboy and Mary Marvel Jr., with their combined power potentially threatening the status quo, and several characters, including Constantine, attempt to stop it. One group of opponents is a shadowy cabal of non-powered heroes from DC and pulp fiction, led by Batman. Another involves an alien alliance of the Green Lantern Corps, Martians, and Thanagarians. Constantine's narrative of the future ends with a massive battle between the various factions, resulting in the death of most of the super-powered characters. A side story would show a decaying superhero ghetto where decrepit versions of old heroes live. In the final part of the present time framing device it would be revealed that Hunter and Constantine had travelled back in time not to prevent the future they came from but to ensure its coming true. The final battle depicted in the book resulted in humanity being freed from the control of superheroes, a status that Hunter and Constantine supported.

>>90494598
>The series would have restored the DC Multiverse, which had been eliminated in the 1985 mini-series Crisis on Infinite Earths. However, the series would also have been a significantly darker take on DC comics characters than had previously been published, with many of the future versions of the heroes depicted as murderers, perverts and tyrants. A central plot element of the series, for example, involves the Question investigating the bondage-themed murder of someone who turns out to be Billy Batson. The series was never commissioned, but copies of Moore's detailed notes have appeared on the Internet and in print, despite the efforts of DC, which considers the proposal its property.

>>90494564
https://archive.org/stream/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes_djvu.txt

I dunno how to feel honestly.
The part with Billy was messed up though.

>>90494564
Yes! Everything's going to be just fine!

it would of been the most epic Elseworlds of all time without a doubt

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>let's make all the superheros evil tyrants and murderers

OH MY GOD

I AM SO SHOCKED AND TITILLATED

THIS IS TRULY A SUBVERSION THE LIKES OF WHICH WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE

WHAT DISEASED YET BRILLIANT MIND COULD HAVE COME UP WITH SUCH A FEINDISH TWIST ON THE CLASSICAL SUPERHERO FORMULA?

TRULY, THIS IS GROUNDBREAKING WRITING GIVING NEW ANGLES ON THE CONCEPT OF SUPER POWERED INDIVIDUALS

It sounded really fun, especially the ending with Constantine, hilarious.

sounds like out of character dogshit written out of spite

Sounds like shit that belongs in a Marvel book, where heroes fighting other heroes is as predictable and regular as a helicarrier crashing.

>>90495891
>Twilight of the Superheroes is the title of a proposed comic book crossover that writer Alan Moore submitted to DC Comics in 1987 before his split with the company.

>>90495891
It was during the 80's.

It sounds like exactly the sort of edgy shit Moore later came to deeply regret. I bet in hindsight he's glad it was never made.

>>90494564
man I fucking love Captain Marvel's design

>>90494564
>>90494638
This should be used as the plot for Injustice 3.

Its just cringe

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>>90497994
I felt bad for Billy even if he was technically in the wrong, Supes was a total douche towards him regardless.

As for OP, I'm tired of Captain Marvel being a villain/victim as he tends to be in these Elseworld clusterfucks. Kingdom Come, Distant Fires, Injustice, etc.. Naturally DC doesn't want their golden boy Supes being overshadowed.

>>90498165
yeah, shame he was just in the one episode, maybe they couldve done something with that

but honestly I'm not sure why they always go for billy or superman (when its not everybody) when they do these elseworlds. is there one where the real ticking timebomb, batman, is the one that turns evil and superman has to try and talk him down peacefully cus he doesnt wanna hurt his best friend or something

>>90494564

Would make an okay animated movie, tbqh. Or an Elseworld annual series. Like, each ongoing book has an annual set in that world in one month, with complete freedom within guidelines, and one core mini where the main plot runs in tandem with the annuals.

>>90496715
Moore still writes edgy shit.

I liked some of the character designs

But it seemed Kinda edgy just to be edgy . Moore was good enough that he could have pulled it off but I don't really regret the fact that he never actually wrote it

>>90498268
>I liked some of the character designs
Wait when did they release the designs for it?

I actually liked it. Sounds better than anything DC has done in the past fifteen years. Moore did the same concept in Miracleman and it worked out well.

>>90498183
Closest thing I know of is Batman V Superman.

They never really make Batman the bad guy in these stories though, only if the ENTIRE Justice League is evil do they ever go there. Batman always has to be the good guy, the one who is incorruptible. Because he sells comics and Batman has to be perfect always or it's totally not Batman for real.

>>90494564
The most amazing part of the pitch to me is moores happiness to be apart of the coporate nature of events where in the pitch he talks about merchendise and how it wont effect stories in te long term if dc doesnt want it to. I guess this was before he became a jadded and hates coporate nature.

>>90498365
ah yes, mr. "if i kill just one person ill slide right down the slippery slope and fly off the deep end with my giant bag of issues" is the incorruptible good. but yeah I get what youre saying, i'm just thinking out loud

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Do you think Lizhka is stronger than other amazons? Because of her origin.

>>90498365
More because evil Batman is underwhelming. Evil Supes is scary, evil gods among men are a terrifying thought, evil normal guy in an animal costume is just dumb unless you crank his plot armor to Deathstroke-in-Identity-Crisis levels

>>90494578
>>90494598
>>90494638
Wow, another Constantine wankfest. Except this time, the wanking is so great that they need TWO Constantines. I'm so fucking over him.

It would have been interested for it to be released just to see the impact that the story would have in the DCU and how it would have affected Elseworlds stories as a whole

Parts of it sound interesting but most of it sounds like going overboard. Moore's good at darker material that a lesser writer would make cringey, but this seems like a bit much. I'd love to ask him what he thinks of the pitch today, his general dislike of the cape genre these days aside.

>>90498504
Bump

>>90494564
Constantine wank and Morrison doing the Millar "Your yank superheroes could be real assholes if I wrote them completely out of character and made you blokes have to write around that for the next decade." thing thirty years early.

At least he had the good manners to make it an Elseworlds but DC made the right call passing on it. Maybe as a Watchman style GN with pastiches instead of the real guys.

>>90494564
>Twilight of the Superheroes
>read it as Twilight with Superheroes
My body is ready for sparkly Superman.

>>90498838
>Morrison
What?

>>90494564

Basically everyone besides John Constantine ends up idiotic, crazy, perverse, or evil. It sounded absolutely dreadful and I'm glad DC didn't allow Moore to rape the characters like he obviously wanted to.

>>90496715
I never regretted anything, he disliked that idiots like you but in position of power only cringed to the edgy stuff instead of the rest of material in the stuff he did. Moore did nothing wrong.

Reminder that superman has never been evil, just an antagonist, batman has been bad like when he was a vampire

>>90499377
>I never regretted anything, he disliked that idiots like you but in position of power only cringed to the edgy stuff instead of the rest of material in the stuff he did

Anon, are you having a stroke?

You wanna come back around and have a second try at that sentence?

>>90499374
Fuck off, you and all not muh faggots are what Moore and even Morrison hates, idiots that don't understand that storytelling is more important than your feelings, batman leading pre-cape heroes was a extremely interesting idea. There's nothing wrong with them doing things you don't like as long as they have a justification in universe, and if we are talking of 80s Moore I have no doubt they will all have one.

Why don't you go back. To read mediocre generic idiots like Johns instead of crying not muh?

>>90499475
>What if I took this guy who's one way
>and instead write him as an opposite character
>WOW WHAT AN INSIGHTFUL SUBVERSION

Character assasination is never interesting. Moore has written some great stuff, but he works better unshackled by existing characters because he's convinced he's better than everyone else, and scorns the concept of continuity.

Honestly, he should just have tried writing books, since he seems to consider himself above comics.

>>90494564
Fuck Constantine. He's a shitty, smug prick who makes no sense as a part of the DC universe and 9/10 appearances outside of his solo are for the purpose of allowing a British writer to take a dump on the "Yanks".

>>90499586
He is better than others, he understands that comics are a medium and that caoeshit doesn't need to be the same shit it has always been, the only one that is still trying is Morrison and he quit the continuity.

If you treat characters as real people and not as a bunch of characteristics fanboys like, you can put them in a different path.
As long as there's a good and developed reason for it you can do it. Or else you get injustice. But faggots like you will always complain and be mad when superman loses, if Hal jobs, or if Barry is beaten by batman team, is not about the characters, it's about your favorite character not being in the right. You are like the idiots that still believe Miller hates superman.

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>>90499699
Of course. Moore is the only genius in the whole damn business.

>>90499699
>"comics is a medium"

What does that have to do with anything?

>If you treat characters as real people and not as a bunch of characteristics fanboys like, you can put them in a different path.

But this isn't a case of a character developing down a darker path. This is smash cut to the future, where for some reason all the good guys have turned into irredeemable monsters and taken over the world for some reason.

Injustice literally is a better example of character development than this.

>>90499475
Not the dude you responded to, but I personally have no problem with Moore or Morrison. The only two things that I take issue with is 1) Batman is AGAIN a resistance leader. Why can't Batman be the bad guy and the other capes have to take his ass down? It's been done to death. Even on rare occasions when Batman is on the same side as the corrupted capes (Like with the Justice Lords), he just ends up turning against all his allies because Batman always has to be right now matter what. Seriously, Batman always being on the resistance side is fucking done to death. And 2) I'm just so burned out on Constantine. I like the idea of the character, but he's just been forced down my throat so much these past few years that I'm sick of the guy. Give us a bit of a breather, plenty of other Brit characters to play with.

>>90499625
This.

So much this

I don't much like the sound of this pitch either, but it seems a lot of folks objection to this is based on existing stories from the past that this project would've predated by a few years or more. This would've only been the second major story where Batman is a resistance fighter. And it would've been before "Constantine wank" was an established thing that kept happening. We might have gotten a completely alternate timeline where none of that stuff would've been commonplace.

There's probably something here that could've been great though. This is only a pitch. It's not a final product. And even the letter goes on to admit there's a lot of kinks to work out and that parts of it might border on the incomprehensible.

This thread is a great example of why capeshit is in such an irredemable condition and a mediocre fan writer like Johns is in such a high position.

>>90501694
*Irredeemable