Alright seriously, no memes, no company war bullshit: What

Pandering to normies

Disney and hiring bitter ass writers who used to work for DC.

Sjw filth

>>90410781
In 1984 New World Pictures purchased Marvel Comics. Everything since then has been leading Marvel down this path. Not saying that there haven't been good times in the last 33 years but that set off a chain of events that directly led to the marvel we have today.

>>90410795
/co/ told me there's nothing wrong with SJWs though

Trying too hard to capture a new audience without any regard how the existing readers would like this. Also shitty, hamfisted writing in general.

>>90410840
Litrally most if not all of /co/ hates sjws. Fuck off /pol/shill

>>90410859
Fuck off. There's nothing inherently wrong with social justice. Social progress has done nothing but benefit the American people.

>>90410866
>>90410859
>>90410840
Responding to your own posts isn't fooling anyone

>>90410781
Nothing? They are making more money than they know what to do with.

>>90410906
>money
Fuck off, kike. We're talking about the quality of their products.

With the movies or comics?

>>90410924
both are terrible atm tbqh

>tfw Iron Man 1 still hasn't been topped in the MCU

>>90410781
Disney bought Marvel.

>>90410781
Bendis. Seriously and honestly.

I blame Alonso.
Things were pretty bad before him, but it's under him everything went to the new levels of shittiness.

>>90410781
>Angry readers buy more comics!

This. Fuck Brevoort, this policy of actively shitting on your readers has bred such active contempt in Marvel writers that it festers in almost all their books.

>>90410781
>Alonso and weak wristed editorial
>Hickman's Avengers and Secret Wars being lackluster
>Losing Hickman, Remender and Fraction
>Inhumans push, directing writers that should have been on bigger and better books to the shitshow of the new Inhumans status quo
>Pushing of shit female characters using bad talent to do so
>Giving Bendis the Keys to the X-Men

So many things

Quesada was great before he had his divorce, allowed OMD to happen, and then hired Loeb, Alonzo tried to hop onto something with a lot of buzz behind it on social media, but only now realized all those diverse tumblrites download, and don't buy, their comics, and he also made the mistake of allowing ooks to be either too comedic or too dark.

>>90411098
He probably thought he was sounding smart when he said that, but all he did was revealing how much of a tool he is.
Even if there are enough idiots to buy because they are outraged at first, it's nothing but a case of short-term gains against long-term consequences. Eventually people would stop giving a fuck if you try to shock and anger them one too many times, to put it bluntly.
Then again, you can't expect much from a company who still rides the "Civil War was successful, better churn out as many halfassed events as possible" because EVENTS WHERE NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME never get old.

>>90410781
Constant events are a problem.
It's not all the pandering that stopped me buying comics, though it is part of it, it's not all the legacy characters, it's not their contempt for the X-Men, nor all the writing troubles, but the events.

I'm not going to start reading something that, six or so issues in, requires me to buy this one issue of something which I'd then want to read the earlier issues and then two of something, four of that, oh better go and read all the main group comic because it turns out its necessary too and then, finally, have to buy the actual event with all the side shit going on during and afterwards.

I just want to read comics about capes doing capeshit.
Fuck unnecessary events.

The editorial is the bizarro version of DC's New 52 editorial. Instead of stifling and frustrating writers creatively, Marvel lets their writers do whatever the fuck they want. Which is nice in theory, but even the best writers need someone to rein them in every now and then.

Over-reliance on movie synergy. It's like the comic guys think they can influence the movies by intentionally making their comics more like the movies, which is such backwards thinking. And Bendis deciding to kill War Machine because of a trailer to a movie he knew nothing about is just fucking embarrassing.

Too many goddamn events. For a long time I didn't think event fatigue was real because long after I completely burned out on them, they were still selling ridiculously well. Civil War II restored my faith in humanity by finally being the straw that broke the camel's back. Instead of boosting the entire line, it dragged it all down. Which has been an on-going issue, but sales finally reflected it.

>>90410781
they changed all the characters at once

>>90411185
Fortunately I think most people have been catching onto the policy at this point. Superior Spider-Man might have been the tipping point.

>>90410866
Fuck off muzzie loving femenazi

>>90410842
Totally 100% this. They chased after the movie audience hard, they chased after the Tumblr audience hard, and they chased after the casual reader hard; all while ignoring what their diehard wanted.

The chickens, they're here to roost.

>>90411393
>Superior Spider-Man might have been the tipping point.

I don't think so because Spider-Verse still sold well after that. But I do remember that after Spider-Verse ASM's sales went downward though it had some brief bumps due to ANAD relaunch and I think maybe start of Clone Conspiracy.

>>90411067
Alonso is like a modern version of Defalco. Well intentioned, but ultimately spineless in the face of the marketing department. He needs to go.

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>>90410781
It isn't the pandering, contrary to what many on /co/ might say. It is in fact possible to pander and still write good stories. Admittedly they aren't doing it, but it is completely possible.

The problem with Marvel is the constant events and new #1's every couple of months. I just don't care about any of it.

See, I'm no continuity cuck. I'm well aware that in most big 2 comics continuity is a crock of shite that gets ignored almost immediately as soon as a new writer comes onto a book, save for a few iconic moments that get cherry picked here and there. That's the illusion. "oh they referenced Dark Phoenix in the latest X-Men comic! Continuity is great!" Yeah, except for the fact that 95% of what happens in comics is ignored. That's the great illusion.

But at the moment it doesn't even feel like we're getting that. Nothing has stakes any more. Nothing Marvel have put out in the last year or so that I have read has felt to me like a story people will even remember in about 5 years time.

Eternally chasing Tumblr isn't the problem, but it is a symptom.

>>90411393
Superior Spider-Man was a great concept though. Poorly executed, but a great concept none the less.

>>90410781
I strongly believe the collaborative nature of the creation process for superhero comics, when mixed with their never-ending soap opera structure, leads to them as a whole being inherently incapable of maintaining long-term quality or coherence.

The inability for a writer to give any character or series an actually definitive ending point, the swapping in and out of staff with wildly different styles and beliefs for what the series should be like, and the way that they've always felt the need to respond to current events in the real world regardless of if it fits into the overarching narrative (as well as the frequent shallowness and immaturity of these attempts) leaves them as being prone towards thematic incoherence, never finishing character arcs, and a myriad other issues such as characters fading in and out of relevance at the whims of the staff rather than due to a logical reason based off the plot progression or the timeline being a confusing mess due to the "present day" setting always needing to be pushed forward in real-time despite the comics themselves never accurately portraying the passage of time.

Continued...

>>90410781

Basically, Bendis happened.

He's a pompous dickwad that doesn't really even care about comics, or has a huge passion of comics like Geoff Johns. He constantly contradicts canon, butchers the personality of characters, inserts his own SJW agenda, has horrible dialogue, and worst of all, he's the fucking captain of Marvel writers. He leads the ship, and does a horrible job at it. Oh, and most books are written by him, so good luck trying to thoroughly escape him.

And even without Bendis, there's the costant huge crossover bullshit that ALWAYS happens. Jesus, DC only had one huge shake up with Rebirth, and even that isn't an actual full on crisis crossover like Marvel likes to do on a yearly to bi-monthly basis.

>>90410781
The movies are doing fantastic. They can at this point make a Man Thing movie and it will make hundreds of millions.

Comics wise they were doing fine, although the SJW agenda (which editor's idea was this?) has drastically lowered sales. Doesn't help that DC's Rebirth stuff continues to kick ass, so now DC stuff is majorly consistently doing better sales wise when before only Batman could match Marvel sales.

From a quality perspective, fuck their event comics though. The last event based thing I remember enjoying from Marvel's probably that Hickman Avengers stuff, and before that it was probably one of the DnA cosmic ones.

>>90411514
>See, I'm no continuity cuck. I'm well aware that in most big 2 comics continuity is a crock of shite that gets ignored almost immediately as soon as a new writer comes onto a book, save for a few iconic moments that get cherry picked here and there. That's the illusion. "oh they referenced Dark Phoenix in the latest X-Men comic! Continuity is great!" Yeah, except for the fact that 95% of what happens in comics is ignored. That's the great illusion.

That's actually a myth. That would be true of DC overall and it actually helps them there. But in Marvel's case, during the 70's, 80's, and 90's they were very continuity-heavy. They definitely weren't perfect, but I would say they didn't ignore 95% of it. Maybe like 50% at most.

Like for instance, DeFalco deciding that the Alicia Masters that Johnny Storm married was actually a Skrull. That's not ignoring continuity since he still had to reference Byrne marrying off Johnny and Alicia. Fraction deciding to have Reed claim there's no God despite how in Waid's run, Reed actually met God? Or Hickman writing that Crystal has no children despite a lot of stories showing that she and Quicksilver have a child? That's ignoring continuity.

I think that what we've been seeing in the Alonso era IS what happens when 95% of comics are ignored. Characterization isn't even consistent on a seasonal basis much less yearly or decade basis to say nothing of continuity.

>>90411635
Structurally, superhero comics are just fundamentally incompatible with many good storytelling practices. It's why you only ever get "good runs" or "great mini-series" or "good oneoffs" rather than a long-running series that maintains consistently high-quality. The best you can hope for is a writer/artist combo who know what they're doing somehow getting paired up and then telling a good story in the short time they have before moving to new projects - there is no way to guarentee continuity in purpose or quality between staff. Nevermind the fact that a weekly release schedule with a short page count fucking butchers the pacing by demanding frequent cliffhangers or transitions in perspective/location to add a narrative hook between weeks.

Marvel suffers from all this accutely, with their frequent shafting of properties not-related to the MCU and fucking stupid crossover events that ruin the individual plans of their staff being two issues in particular they suffer from especially badly. Beyond this the editorial staff blatantly has no coherent long term vision for their properties and lets their writers run fucking wild without trying to keep them even remotely on track which leads to the aforementioned mandatory events feeling even more incoherent in the overarching narrative of their series and makes continuity a bitch to maintain without retcons. Pretty much all they seem to plan these days are the events to drive sales and preferential treatment of MCU properties.

Their comics will never increase in quality again since the serious storytelling they strive towards (mostly) is just incompatible with their medium in the longterm, so unless they go back to the episodic and kid-oriented storylines of the Gold+Silver ages they're just gonna keep sucking for the most part.

(do note tho i have no problem with politics in comics i just think capeshit nearly always adresses it poorly and shoehorns it in without really planning it in advance)

>>90410781
/co/ is the only place that's hating them

Reddit still loves them

Twitter still loves them

Forums in general still love them

Sales wise they were neck and neck with DC for February but probably ended up making slightly more money. When they start bringing back their big names they'll get a boost, just like Secret Empire will get them a boost.

They also brought in a lot of promising new talent instead of recycling the new shit. Ewing, Brisson, Loveness, Thompson, Spencer, Rosenberg, Hastings, Coates.

>>90411757
>Forums in general still love them

No they don't.

>>90411565
I actually liked Superior, but I remember at the time the humongous outcry there was at Peter's 'death'... and in spite of this the first few issues still sold gangbusters despite the outrage. And I think people figured out that that was Marvel's plan.

>>90410781
Rather than trying to keep their preexisting userbase, or woo a HUGE demographic of casual fans that was coming in, Marvel instead decided to alienate the first two groups to court an extremely small minority of people that actively, vocally hated, pirated, and never really consumed their product in the first place.

>>90411773
Except they do. Ever that terrible IvX shit is getting discussed despite the fact that it's terrible and should be ignored.

>>90411757
>Sales wise they were neck and neck with DC for February but probably ended up making slightly more money.

Considering they have about 20% more books than DC that is fucking awful. DC's "Less, cheaper, better" approach seems to be doing wonders.

>>90410781
sjws

>>90411827
>they have about 20% more books than DC
This is mostly always the case, they're a bigger company
>DC's "Less, cheaper, better" approach seems to be doing wonders
Better in what way? Some comic book shops have been complaining that it's less profit.

>>90410781
Civil War was a shit comic. Then they decide to make Civil War 2 because they want to ride off the MCU's popularity. As much as DC's Rebirth was controversial because they implemented The Watchmen, i think Rebirth is much more interesting.

Bendis

SJW and DIVERSITY!!! Black genius female Iron Man. WHOR, literally tumblr art for some comics like Gwenpool.

>>90411843
>This is mostly always the case, they're a bigger company

It's because Star Wars comics

>>90411817
Everything that's terrible and should be ignored still gets discussed. That doesn't imply forums actually love them. Besides wasn't there a lot of suspicion of shills posting?

>>90411843
>>90411817
>>90411757
You're an intern from Marvel, aren't you

>>90410781
internal conflict, some of which was driven by Scrooge McIke, the rest was driven by Brevoort's sensationalist ideology.

this led to the biggest scabs just scooping up the most success and getting mistaken for hard workers.

>>90411858
Hellcat went mostly ignored. Wasp too.

>>90411863
You're a DC intern, aren't you

They decided to scrap everything that people liked (and didn't like...) and replaced it without actually developing their replacement enough for people to get attached to them. Certain writers/editors/directors then decided to replace actual storytelling and development with either EPIC FIGHT NOTHING WILL BE THE SAME or very political and badly handled topics.

>>90411672
>The movies
>>>/tv/

>>90411886
>They decided to scrap everything that people liked (and didn't like...)
sounds like rebirth.

>>90411843
"Better" as in putting more resources into making quality stories.

Also anyone who is losing money with popular characters like Flash, Superman and motherfucking Batman double shipping is either in a place where the consumer base isn't there to support their store or they are retarded at running their business, even if the books are only $2.99.

DC was always better than Marvel

>>90411905
>putting more resources into making quality stories
Allow me to interject.

As a DC fan this is simply not true, they're mediocre/bad all across the line. I mean, the thread is about Marvel and I'm not saying they're doing any better, I'd say they're even worse, but DC isn't putting out quality stories.

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>>90411788
I don't even think it was Marvel's plan to outrage in order to sell comics.

I genuinely reckon Slott wanted to do his own big indelible mark on Spider-Man lore on the level of the Clone Saga. Because even as shit as the Clone Saga was, its a well that keeps being returned to.

Superior will be the same. In 50 years time we will have seen a couple more stories involving Potto, I can guarantee it.

I just think they misread quite how autistic their readership can be about it all though. Screeching constantly about how "they're shitting on Peter, my favourite character!" as though it was ACTUALLY going to be the new permanent change as opposed to a short ride.

I mean it turned out pretty mediocre in the end. Not god awful, definitely some very fun moments but ultimately just kind of poor but the butthurt it caused was immense.

>>90411949
pretty much anything regarding Peter will cause autistic screeching cause his fanbase literally imagines they are him

>>90411843
>This is mostly always the case, they're a bigger company

Yeah exactly and for most of their history they havd put out more books than DC and outsold them handily. The fact that they arent outselling DC anymore but still produce more titles would indicate something has changed, is Marvel struggling to put out stories of the quality that made them the juggernaut they are today? Is DC doing a better job of meeting consumer needs than they have in the past? Probably both.

>>90411949
>Not god awful
You have very low standards.

>>90411635
>>90411677
What this guy said

>>90411961
>The fact that they arent outselling DC anymore but still produce more titles would indicate something has changed
except for the last three months they have outsold DC

>>90410781
jews
ask /pol/, it's true

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>>90411927
This is the way it has always been.

Most of what Marvel and DC put out is forgettable filler. Bland stories sold to fans of the character.

Three or four of their books at any one time will be solid gold and well worth reading, but the rest range from mediocre, to forgettable to outright garbage. Invariably, most of those solid gold books will be smaller selling titles that don't see the sales they deserve while grey tripe like Nu 52 Justice League sells like hotcakes

This is how it has always been and will always continue to be.

>>90411927
>As a DC fan this is simply not true, they're mediocre/bad all across the line.

>Superman
>New Super-Man
>Deathstroke
>RHaTO
>Supersons

Yeah taste is subjective, Kings Batman is a hit or miss and Hitchs JL is still struggling to find steady ground but I dont how anyone could call all of those titles medicore or bad.

>>90412005
>Superman
>RHaTO
>Supersons
these are good on their BEST issues but have mostly been mediocre

>>90411961
>the fact that they aren't outselling DC anymore
Except that they are. DC only outsold them for about two months. This happened when they launched New 52 too. DC on average wins a month or two/year but the others go to Marvel.

>>90411975
By less one percent, used to be much larger than that.

>>90411964
It really wasn't.

It was readable. Potto had some decent moments here or there and there was some small enjoyment to be found watching it all crash down around his ears slowly.

It certainly wasn't "good" but it was far from god awful.

>>90412005
Only Deathstroke is great in that list.

>>90412033
And even that has shitty art.

>>90411975

From overshipping. We saw what happens when you take that away. They're neck and neck. DC is much deeper into their relaunch than Marvel is and Marvel has Star Wars to help them. Not a single Marvel hero made it into the top 10 for last month

If DC had access to a comparable property like Harry potter they would be stamping on Marvels neck.

>>90412015
Super Sons has only had one issue you fucking faggot, how does your statement about it make sense? Marvel interns folks.

>>90412032
It really fucking was.
It was an abysmal unreadable shitfest with everything from dialogue to characterizations being garbage, and if you're saying it was anything but godawful, you're a moron with no taste.

>>90411881
Nice try, Marvel intern

>>90412062
Same logic would apply to calling it great after just one issues. DC interns folks.
Also, that anon is probably counting the art from Superman from which Super Sons spins out of.

>>90411949
>I just think they misread quite how autistic their readership can be about it all though. Screeching constantly about how "they're shitting on Peter, my favourite character!"

Superior Spiderman very much that. Slott lives vicariously through Otto to the point of shitting on Peter's supporting cast and replacing it with his own. The fanbases initial reaction was pretty cringeworthy, but the story reeked of autism.

>>90411863
He brings up some good points but of course faggot rebirthfags ignore them and go staright for buzzwords and name calling.

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>>90412067
Who hurt you?

Why are you so mad at the notion that someone didn't completely 100% hate a book you didn't like?

I'm not even saying it's good, I'm saying it's mediocre with a few decent moments here and there

Why is it that even though OP outright asks for no company wars, people jumped straight for the "BUT DC" argument

>>90412101
>He brings up some good points

Bragging about your own post won't help you there

>>90412101
Like what? People like Marvel more than DC? Doesn't explain why pound for pound DC books usually fo better.

>>90412118
Because there is nothing to defend Marvel on. They really have become a shitshow.

>>90412109
I understand that you're a fucking moron with zero taste, but you're the main reason cape comics suck these days. You pretending that absolutely godawful garbage "is not that bad" is a reason why so many comics are shit these days.

>>90412127
>People like Marvel more than DC?
Sure, which is why Marvel's sales aren't in the crapper despite such outrage online over their product. There's also the fact that they have a bright future in that they're bringing in new talent instead of relying on fossils like Jurgens.

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>NOTHING IS WRONG WITH MARVEL
>SJWs ARE YOUR FRIENDS, /POL/ FUK U
>LALALA ALL IS WELL LALALA

Denial running deep ITT

>>90412145
>Sure, which is why Marvel's sales aren't in the crapper

Uh huh.

>>90412166
I mean... you saw what happened in February. Do you enjoy living in denial? Wanna see sales in the crapper? look at DC before Rebirth.

>>90411565
I think it would've been better if it was no more than half as long as it was and the rest of the Marvel universe didn't have to be turned into morons for Otto to keep his secret hidden for as long as he did.

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>>90412142
>I understand that you're a fucking moron with zero taste

Of course I am. So are you. We read fucking comic books anon. At least I'm self aware enough to know it.

>>90412191
You're one of those retards that think comics are a genre, aren't you?

>>90410793
Actually, this bullshit was already happening well before the Disney acquisition, they just went full retard and doubled-down on that particular direction like a bad gambler on a losing streak.

>>90412145
>Sure, which is why Marvel's sales aren't in the crapper despite such outrage online over their product.

Again for the sheer volume of titles they have they are doing poorly. DC is almost selling as much as they are with way fewer titles and routinely dominate top tens. This means that Marvel is putting out way more titles with middling to no popularity. Also please keep in mind that Marvel has recently been overshipping like crazy so who knows whats really been ordered and what hasnt been.

>they have a bright future in that they're bringing in new talent instead of relying on fossils like Jurgens.

This would be a valid point if 1) Talent didnt change companies all the time 2) Bendis wasn't writing like 20% of the line 3) DC didnt develop talent at all.

Well Marvel comics are clearly incompetent. The MCU is one of the most popular franchises in the world right now and the DCEU is widely considered Dogshit. When DC can get 7 book featuring their heroes in the top 10 and you cant manage 1 you must know you're fucking up

>>90412238
Yeah this is bizarre to me. Its like youve got the most iconic pop culture invention of this century and yet Aquaman sells more than Iron Man.

>>90412199
You're one of those retards who thinks the medium is high art, aren't you?

>>90412191
>I'm so cool for saying comics are shit, amirite? XDD
Just kill yourself. All you're doing is proving that your life has zero value.

>>90412264
I should off myself because I don't think the medium of comics is high art worthy of being used as a barometer of taste?

Imagine being this autistic.

>>90410781
Fanboys took over instead of actual storytellers. It's like a game of telephone. "I read the popular stories as a kid, so therefore, I'll only work on the characters I know." It's how we got Bendis in charge cause he used Spider-Man and Wolverine on his team. As it progressed, things got worse because they knew they had to change the status quo, but they never read off brand books that explored other characters. Therefore, we keep getting the same superheroes with legacy paint jobs.

>>90412304
>THE MEDIUM IS SHIT XDD AM I COOL YET XDD
You should die not only because you have absolutely awful taste, but because you're a complete idiot who's hiding behind fake snobism trying to save face after losing an argument.

Kill yourself. The world would probably be a better place without you.

For me it was the clear loss of talent. Remender and Hickman were big ones. What's worse is they both went out after dismal mandated event comics. Marvel editorial is fucked.

>>90410781
They turned their universe into a cringey fanfiction

>>90412142
Pretending godawful garbage isn't that bad is the reason comics have been shit since their inception.

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>>90412347
>You can lose an argument that is about subjective opinion

The autistic screeching grows louder

>>90412229
>DC didnt develop talent at all.
Not in the Rebirth era, no. They got washed up has beens like Jurgens, Dixon, Lobdell, they signed long time Marvel boy Sam Humphries to an exclusive, they've got Hitch writing Justice League. The DC Talents workshop doesn't guarantee work at DC, some of the people from the previous one are doing work right now at other companies and even then, a bunch of the people that signed up for that are veterans with 10+ years experience in the medium. The only two new talents they've scouted in the last 2 years are Tom King and Steve Orlando and they're wasting King on only one title that he doesn't even seem to really want to write and considering he's going to be back at Marvel in a few years(he ever confirmed it, he'll be back to finish his Viv story) that's pretty bad. And Orlando isn't any good.

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>>90410781
they tried to be a orange farm when everyone came for their apples.

>>90412374
>w-writing is subjective
Just shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

>>90412364
Yeah, yeah. We get it. You're le cool /lit/ard. Shut up.

>>90412380
if you don't like oranges your a fruitiest

>>90412377
>Argues that DC doesn't develop talent
>Concedes that DC does in fact develop talent in their post

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>>90412386
Whether or not something is enjoyable to a person is entirely subjective opinion you spastic.

>>90412094
The biggest problem with Slott is that he's a big overgrown child and it shows in his writing.
It worked for She-Hulk because that book is supposed to be all about levity. Slott can write levity, but when he does dramatic scenes they feel like a kid seeing an emotional scene in a movie and trying to replicate it when playing with toys without understanding all the subtleties of why it is emotional.

He either doesn't want or doesn't know how to make good characterizations, all he wants is big explosions and ridiculous twists.
Spider-Man under him lost all the humanizing qualities under him (seriously, compare his Spider-Man to Conway, Stern, JMS' or fucking Zeb Wells. Slott's Peter is a cartoon character in comparison) which makes him (and the rest of the cast) feel very shallow.

Superior could've been good have you given the concept to Matt Wagner for instance. Hunter Rose was pretty much what SpOck should've been.

>>90412461
>"it wasn't godawful"
Nowhere it was saying anything about "enjoyable" you goddamn moron.

You keep on proving that you're an idiot. Kill yourself. I actively encourage you now. Do it.

>>90412254
Because it's not Ironman anymore.

>>90412485
Slott is a pretty good ideas guy, he just never sticks the landing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would not be mad in the slightest if he was paired up with a more competent writer who was able to deliver on his ideas and concepts properly

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>>90412500
Whether or not it is god awful is a personal subjective opinion.

Are you deliberately being dense?

>>90412501
Exactly Anon, exactly.

>>90412520
>writing is subjective
And we're back at square one.
Bravo moron.

>Ultimatum wasn't godawful.
See? You can't argue with it because it's "a subjective opinion" and not an objectively idiotic statement.

>>90412557
A persons opinion on the quality of said writing is indeed subjective.

The level of ones enjoyment of ultimatum is entirely a personal subjective opinion.

>>90412575
No, it's not. If a person enjoys a shitty thing it's their opinion. If they say it's not bad, they have shit taste. Simple as that.
Superior Spider-Man was a "how not to write 101" showcase.

>>90412460
>develops talent
>gives lessons to a bunch of veterans that go on and work for different publishers
alright buck

>>90412605
Whether or not someone thinks something is good or bad is based entirely on their personal opinion.

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You two are quite the pair.

>>90412669
And if they think shit is good, they're shit-eaters.
There's more to judging writing than just "thinking x is good or bad"
Everyone being reduced to becoming complete one-dimensional idiots (especially the protagonist), shit happening for no reason other than to be resolved in the very next issue with a retarded asspull and zero subtlety in anything are all objective signs of bad writing.

>>90410781
Perlmutter and Bendis drove away all their actual talent.

Women ruin everything as usual.

>>90410781
SJWS = AIDS. You don't pander to fringe wingnuts. It is fatal for your business.

>>90411757
>Reddit still loves them
>Twitter still loves them
>Forums in general still love them
you say that like it's a good thing

>>90411757
>Reddit still loves them
Not even Reddit. They are complaining a fucking lot.

>Twitter still loves them
???

>Forums in general still love them
Not ComicVine or CBR. Are there other forums?

>They also brought in a lot of promising new talent instead of recycling the new shit.
One of this new talents just wrote the worst comic of the last ten years.

>Ewing, Brisson, Loveness, Thompson, Spencer, Rosenberg, Hastings, Coates.
Is that a joke?

>>90410781
>Alonso
>Breevort
>MB Bendis
>Quesada
>Ike "The Kike" Perlmutter
>Losing damn good writers due to them actually wanting some lil bits of change/transformation over the 616 universe.
>Then ultimately giving that chance to writers who don't know how the fuck can you change things without shitting on the fans/history/character.

And probably my favorite one
>Not actually listening to fans and doing positive changes to some characters or outright retconning them because NOTMUHCHARACTERS, like fucking Spider-Man or the X-Men.

Bendis' and Fraction's "Continuity doesn't matter if the story is good" attitude has sunk the whole system. There is no reason to get involve in the stories if the writers themselves don't really care where they go. Like, look at how Hulk died in Civil War II. He wasn't even in a full issue of the book before fucking HAWKEYE kills him. None of that felt natural. It felt like Bendis killing two characters with one stone that he has stated that he doesn't like.

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>>90410781
>alright, no memes:
>Meme

>>90410781
Nothing went wrong. Marvel were always terrible, but you were too blind to see it since they were pandering to you. Just how SJWs see current Marvel as a good thing since it panders to them.

>>90410866
yeah but nobody appreciates how your job cant fire you for not wanting to work 80 hour weeks in unsafe condition let alone taking sick days or holidays

>>90410937
Winter solider and guardians are the closets other then that all crap

>>90412377
Yang is a better search than anyone Marvel has found in the past five years.

>>90414192
>h-how dare you say that an objectively terrible comic is terrible and that only idiots would not see how it's terrible
Fuck off with hiding behind "muh subjective opinion" coward.

>>90410842
This

/thread

>>90415089
Stop trying to pretend that you can objectively assess something that is vague and unquantifiable.

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>>90411757
>Ewing

>>90415205
Stop trying to pretend that "LE EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE". It was objectively badly-written garbage and that's a fact, not an opinion.
>vague and unquantifiable
That's why writing lessons exist, and that's why there's world of difference in quality before 50 Shades of Grey and Blood Meridian.
Fucking moron, just die already. I'm sick of you cowards trying to defend bad writing by pulling this shit.

>>90411927
I agree, but DC has Young Animal, HB and Wildstorm to keep me from dropping them completely. When Marvel's main line is thrash, the whole company is worth shit.

>>90411676
>That's actually a myth. That would be true of DC overall

Spotted the marvel fan. Can't you proportions at least try to learn about DC before making retarded statements?

>>90411677
>>90411635

We're you trying to make the most retarded uneducated statement possible? Because if so, congratulation.

>>90412145
>Marvel hires horrible web comic artists
>occasionally hire good writers like King that go to DC in a year

lol

>>90415797
>good writers like King

>>90410781

>company is more successful now than it probably has ever been

Nothing went wrong desu

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>>90411757
>Spencer, Rosenberg, Hastings, Coates.

>>90415715
Spotted the poser. DC did ignore a lot of continuity in the 40's and 50's and 60's (even though in the latter they started being better about it). And if you think Roy Thomas reincorporated everything from the Golden Age during All Star Squadron, then ask yourself how could the Quality Comics heroes have their Golden Age adventures when it was implied most of them died on Earth-X? Then to say nothing of COIE and Infinite Crisis and Flashpoint and New 52 and Rebirth completely altering backstory. Does Year One and Zero Year take place in the same universe?

SJWs like Bendis happened get rid of them and marvel will stop sucking

>>90410781
Tried to appeal too much to people who don't buy comics in the first place.

>>90410842
This my be true, because I never read a single cape comic and I like nearly all the movies

>>90410781
Almost everything can be chalked up to either Ike Perlmutter or the MCU getting too big too fast.

>>90411997
>Invariably, most of those solid gold books will be smaller selling titles that don't see the sales they deserve while grey tripe like Nu 52 Justice League sells like hotcakes
I am always saddened by how true this is.

>>90414491
CW2 was a continuity clusterfuck across the board. You can completely tell that Bendis just did not give any shits about what anyone else was doing with any of the characters involved. Clint killing Banner was one of the more egregious examples, but it was hardly alone.

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They never finished Miracleman.

>>90418526
You also gotta love how all the other writers tool the "This is stupid" approach. On top of that, the event took like 4 months longer than it should have.

>>90415726
Not an argument.