Has Jason killed anyone that actually mattered?

>>90407080
Batman 1983-88

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>>90407118

Tim's chances of relevancy

>>90408802
Hey don't let Jason hog all the limelight.
Damian was also a factor in the equation that killed Tim.

>>90408884
>Damian was also a factor in the equation that killed Tim.

This.

Damian is what truly killed Tim's relevancy.

>>90407080
He killed Bane and several other villains in Arkham Knight.

>>90408802
>>90408884
>>90409268

Tim was never good.

>>90409484
Nice try damifag

>>90409484
accurate

Didn't he kill Tony Stark's parents and make him all ragey?

>>90409484
Why does /co/ hate Tim so much? Sure he's bland but he's good around Kon and Cass and is a pretty good straight man in general, he's a good leader and has always been a competent Robin which can't be said for Jason and Damian. Tim's not even my favorite Robin, I like Jason best but I can't find it in me to outwardly hate him plus Red Robin was a cool series.

Plus I don't get why Damifags hate him so much either, they always go on about great Damian's character development is and said praised character development is always Damian becoming less arrogant, more mild-mannered/normal, more loving towards the rest of the Batfam and becoming a more competent Robin...things that Tim has always been. Anyone care to explain? Cause usually /co/ isn't so contrarian.

>>90409414
He didn't kill Bane but he did kill Black Mask and Killer Moth

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>>90407080
He killed Captain Nazi.

He shot Harvey Dent's daughter in the head.

So I guess no.

>>90408802
>>90409484
DELETE

>>90409595
>I like Jason best but I can't find it in me to outwardly hate him plus Red Robin was a cool series
Trust me dude, Tim and his fans aren't worth defending because his fans are ones of the biggest Jason haters besides Dick fans and Tim spend his career as Robin being told that he's better than Jason.

>>90409634
He did in the comic.

>>90409484
>>90409509
I hate Tim and Damian, Jason should have stayed dead after the Red Hood nonsense

>>90409753
Spot the Dick fan.

>>90409595

I don't hate Tim. I'm just indifferent to him.

>>90409595
>Why does /co/ hate Tim so much?
Because he doesn't have a good book.

/co/ didn't give a shit about Dick during New 52 Nightwing and didn't give a shit about Jason prior to Rebirth because they were mediocre to shit.

It's actually pretty interesting watching how opinions change when the consensus on their book's quality changes.
>Dick is irrelevant and trash because no Teen Titans history and nobody can make him work
to
>he's one of the best characters DC has and omg DC needs to do push him more and fans need to shut up about Teen Titans because TT is garbage and always was

You can see it happening with Jason now compared to the last 5 years where the nicest thing people had to say was DC doesn't know what to do with him.

>>90409768
You say that like its a bad thing

>>90409753

Nah Jason is too compelling to stay dead.

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>>90407080
>Has Jason killed anyone that actually mattered
Bruce's love

>>90409722
Why the heck do they hate him? And If any Robin fanbase has the right to hate any Robin, it's the Jason fanbase because of the reason you mentioned last.

>>90409865
Oh, poor you...

>>90409867
I always found Tim's introduction into the family to be fucking dumb.
>I was there that night at the circus
>I totally figured it out because shut up
>Batman needs a Robin

>>90409824
It's. If anyone rival Tim in blandness, it's Dick.

>>90409722
I understand that but that's not necessarily reflective of the character and out of everyone in the batfam Tim has shown to be one of the most understanding towards Jason.

>>90409806
>he doesn't have a good book
Well, as aforementioned, I liked Red Robin and Young Justice if it counts, and even though it was a terrible run, he was actually sorta interesting for the first third/half of v3 Teen Titans.


Also the other stuff is sort of true, I remember a couple years ago the general consensus amongst most people on Dick was that he was too vanilla, bland and campy, I guess it's just an ongoing cycle and it's just Tim's time to get crapped on until people get sick of it, go full circle, and start hyping the fuck out of him and start shitting on some other Robin.

>>90410059
>Dick was that he was too vanilla, bland and campy
He still all of this, but his fans are getting more obnoxious and louder lately.

>>90409927
I kinda like it
>Batman this grimderp Miller shit has to stop, and I'll wear the banana hotpants myself if that's what it takes

>>90410211
It's not how it went, though. Tim run like an idiot to Dick and told to be Robin again, but he got told to freak off and it was Alfred who pushed him to wear the costume.

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>>90407080
What Jason does that matters the most is call out Batman on his bullshit
Seriously, when everybody's so busy fawning over Batgod it's a delicious feeling of schadenfreude when he gets rightly put in his place

>>90409648

He came back and revealed that he was the anthropomorphic personification of Nazism.

>>90407118
Fpbp

>>90411740
Kek, you got the "say that to alfred" page?

>>90411740
>clark openly referring to us as "human".

alien scum.

>>90409733
But in the game Bane is off in Santa Prisca doing Batman stuff

>>90413671
Well, it's different in comics because he actually killed him.

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>>90409865
Nah he still loves him. It's why he never ended up getting punished for his actions. Except that time he really went off the deep end under Dickbats.

>>90413861
Even Dick didn't punish him and just put him in Arkham to protect him.

>>90413861
What's going on here?

By stopping Mongul that time, Jason did more to save the universe than any other Robin has ever done.

>>90413927
Batman was hit by Scarecrow gas fear and hallucinate Jason attacking him.

And pretty much everything Jason said there is what Batman felt.

>>90413927
Bruce got hit by fear toxin and imagined Jason going full nut job, while he was really strangling Tim.

>>90413861
Literally the same reason he's unable to stop the Joker lmao

>>90414095
He does stop him. He just refuse to kill.

>>90414095
Do you even read comics? Batman broke Joker's bones multiple times and throw him in jail.

>>90409595
>Why does /co/ hate Tim so much?
His writers kept saying that he was better than Batman at the things Batman is supposed to be best at and fans got tired of it. In the 00's, after Dixon left (vocally disagreeing with DC's new direction for the character) Tim went from the 'normal' Robin with a dad and a step-mom and a curfew and girl troubles to Batman Jr. with dead parents and the 'best detective ever' label and that turned a lot of people off. Morrison restructured the Batfam, created a new Robin and brought Dick back in as the heir apparent. Then New 52 happened. Between Morrison and Snyder we got nearly a decade of quality Batbooks where Tim really didn't matter. What did we need Tim for?

>>90409806
/co/ didn't give a shit about Dick during New 52 Nightwing and didn't give a shit about Jason prior to Rebirth because they were mediocre to shit.
/co/ had monthly threads complaining about story quality for both of these characters. Not giving a shit about the books are different from not giving a shit about the characters.

>>90407080
the bat-family's credibility

>>90411740
How is Barbara standing?

>>90414200
Where have you been since 2011?

>>90413861
>you love me too much
Jason, you lucky bastard because hardly anyone can say that Batman "loves them too much".

>>90414221
I don't read comics that much.

>>90414221
The poor dude probably just come back from 2010.

>>90414222
It always amaze me how Jason was able to win Batman's love so effortlessly.

>>90414328
He's a lovable scamp

>>90414222
It's funny that out of all the Robins in modern comics, Jason has the most Batdad moments. They're always forcing Bruce to show his affection.

Pointless, because if we had to rank them in the amount Bruce really cares about them, it's obviously Dick > Damian > Jason/Tim

>>90407080
I really like that design.

This sounds really stupid, but for some reason I think Two Face would be a great Red Hood ala Judge.

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>>90414328
>effortlessly
He just used the skills he'd picked up on the streets.

>>90414363
>it's obviously Dick > Damian > Jason/Tim
It's obvious to you only. If there was a rank, it will be like this Jason > Dick/Damian > Tim.

>>90414363
You have to be completely oblivious to think that Batman care about Jason less than Dick and Damian.

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>>90414328
Jason was a really loveable kid with Bruce.

>>90414541
Come on, Pre-Crisis he was basically a different character.

>>90409484
>i don't know what red robin is also i have shit taste.
that's what i read

>>90413955
I dunno, Dick helped stop Trigon

>>90414557
Puberty's a bitch

>>90414576
Red Robin was really only ok. It wasn't bad, but the fact that Timfags hold it up as some pinnacle of the character really speaks volumes. Not to mention it came out at a time when a bunch of 10/10 bat series were being published

>>90410099
I can understand Dick's appeal. He is a batman that didn't let tragedy break him.

>>90414722
>but the fact that Timfags hold it up as some pinnacle of the character

Now I'm curious, what is each batfam character's "super duper highlights"?

My best guess:

Bruce- Year One, TDKR,
Dick- Morrison B&R, Grayson
Jason- UtRH
Tim- I honestly want to say his training arcs under Granyt/Breyfogle
Damian- Morrison B&R
Babs- Batgirl Year One
Cass- Puckett's run
Steph- BQM's run
Kate- Elegy
Selena- Brubaker Run
Helena- Cry For Blood

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>>90414557
He was still likable in post crisis.

>>90414863
>Jason- UtRH
A lot of Jason fans really love Red Hood: LD plus the current Rebirth series.

>>90414917
Man, Barr's run was really great and one of my favorites.

>>90410059
>Dick was that he was too vanilla, bland and campy
This honestly the most accurate description of Dick.

>>90410059
>Well, as aforementioned, I liked Red Robin and Young Justice if it counts
No no no

A good book NOW

Tim has been in a shit book for 5 years, finally got okay in 'Tec and is now not in any books

He needs a good direction with a good writer and then /co/'s opinion on him will flip fast

>>90414863
Jason: UtRH, Countdown, Search for Ray Palmer, RHATO v1, RHA, The Last Crusade

>>90414154
>Not giving a shit about the books are different from not giving a shit about the characters.
Except /co/ didn't care about the characters either.

It's funny going back to 2011-2014 because all /co/ wanted was for Dick to be Batman again because people were convinced that it was the only time DC made him work. And people thought the character was practically dead because Tim and Jason took Titans and Titans characters from him.
Then Grayson happened and /co/'s opinion changed pretty much changed to "wow Dick is good and who needs Kory, Roy, and the Titans team" in like a two month time span.

>>90414368
Not Red Hood exactly but an equally violent vigilante who never redeems himself like Jason does and just stays a villain

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>>90412840
But of course

>>90414917
>>90414995
I have been hearing many good things about this run and I want to know more about Jason when he was Robin.

>>90415857
This page never failed to make me laugh. Best sick burn moment.

>>90415902
Read it, dude. Jason full run as Robin was suprisingly very enjoyable and made me really appreciate him more.

Jason should just start killing off the less important batman villains. Starting from crazy quilts, polkadots and eggheads.

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>>90414917
>>90414541

Everyone post more Jason + Batdad moments, these are fucking adorable.

>>90416204
Good idea.

I will post pages/panels once I finish with something.

>>90415422
Hardly.
All I remember from 2011-2014 was /co/ complaining that DC took the best writer Dick has had in decades, moved him to the main Batman title, and gave Batman the Court of Owls story arc that was clearly tailor-made for Dick too.

Then they changed direction for Nightwing every arc from one mediocre idea to another because they'd retconned most of his supporting cast out of existence and didn't know what to do with him.

The threads were there, but threads about collectively agreeing how a book is shit don't have anywhere else to go.

>>90409595
I like Tim, but he's at his best as the "status quo" character. He's the Robin in Batman and Robin, and that's all he'll be. He's nothing particularly notable, and he isn't going to progress anywhere.

I hated New 52 Tim, especially under Tynion's pen, so I think death or retirement is really the best possible ending for him.

>>90416185
What about Kite Man! Hell yeah!

>>90415857
What happened to Alfred again? This was ages before he had his hand cut off. Did he get hit with a crowbar or something?

>>90416514
It would be indeed funny to see Batman mourn that loss more than him losing Jason.

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>>90416204
Here's a really fun moment between them.

>>90416553
It was during Death of the Family, when he was attacked and kidnapped (if I'm remembering right) by the Joker.

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>>90416204
Count me in.

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>>90416688
This was a very sweet moment.

>>90416688
Jason used to call Bruce Ace? Cute.

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>>90416752

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>>90417074

>>90417711
>For first time it's seems true: A son isn't always born of his father
>First time
Dick BTFO

>>90412768
>comic books

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>>90417840
Dick being Bruce's son is a fairly recent thing, but don't tell Batfamilyfags

Wolfman made the father/son thing more a subtext to make Dick more independent, but ultimately had Burce not think of him as a son

The pushing of the father/son thing as more than subtext started with Dixon, for the most part, with Grayson the writer continuing it while shipping them at the same time. And ever since then writers choose whichever one they want; father/son, brothers, or just friends.

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>>90409648
>No, he was people!

>>90417880
What were they thinking when pic related happened?

>>90417711
Don't stop anon, post more.

>>90414863
How can you not put Teen Titans as one of Dick's best books? Plus his old solo series was great

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>>90418043
Your wish is my command.

>>90418072
>Plus his old solo series was great
Ehhhh

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>>90418095

>>90418095
>>90418161
Great moments. Where's the first one from?

>>90417963
>DC: We don't know what to do with Nightwing, so we want you to kill Dick and make him Jason for awhile to shake things up.
Writer: O-OK
>[Cue fan freakout]
DC: That was probably a bad idea people seem to hate it. Write something else would you?
>But the story is out next m- you know what fine.

And that dear readers is how Jason Todd briefly became Japanese porn.

>>90418191
Justice League #19, where he and Alfred got ambushed by Earth 3 Alfred

>>90418191
John's JL #19

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>>90418161

>>90418301
Wow Batman, what a harsh "punishment" you give him.

>>90418301
Yo, this is homoerotically charged as fuck.
>"your PUNISHMENT is you have to let me take you out for dinner"
>"well well, dad, it's a date"

Yeesh.
I just wanted some heartwarming moments.

>>90418358
You really have a filthy mind, dude. I think it was a sweet moment.

>>90414863
>all those origin stories

Really joggins the noggin

>>90418421
Me too. I smiled when I read it.

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>>90418301

>>90418072
I know this is an unpopular opinion here, but I've always kind of felt that the old NTT doesn't hold up as much as other stuff from that era. It really falls into some bad trends from that era of comics like a lot of show don't tell, and people just explaining what they're thinking/doing. The plots themselves are good, but I feel would be better served if you took the general bullet points and art and modernized the writing style kind of like what happened in the cartoon

>>90418358
>"Dads are diddlers."
>"Everyone is a LITTLE bit gay."
This is the result of the last few decades of cultural programming. The fact that your brain immediately contextualizes a playful exchange between a man and a boy as either "potential abuse" or "homosexual foreplay" is a testament to how casually we malign fathers and how mindlessly we celebrate what amounts to a fetish culture.

>>90418634
>NTT
It's like a 70's Marvel book that happened at 80's DC. I know what you mean.

>>90419514
t. closet NAMBLA member

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>>90407118
It's funny because it's true.

>>90420152
So, why are you triggered by this page?

>>90420152
Man, I really miss her and I wish they would bring 80s Nocturna back instead of the awful new version they made.

>>90417963
NOT CANON NOT CANON NOT CANON
IF I SAY IT ENOUGHT TIMES MEME MAGIC WILL MAKE IT NOT CANON

>>90420152
>it's true
It's not because 80s Batman was the best along with the 70s.

>>90419514
>It's like a 70's Marvel book that happened at 80's DC. I know what you mean.

That's because the impetus behind it was "Hey the X-Men are really popular. Let's have one too"

>>90420427
What, you didn't like Batwoman being raped anon?

>>90420480
Most of the best Batman comics from the time of Jason's tenure weren't even the main line.

>>90414388
The coloring on this always looks like Jasons wearing green lacy panties under his robin suit to me

>>90420497
I refuse to even acknowledge her. She is inferior version that can't hold a candle to the original.

>>90420576
He was talking about Batman the character, not the stories (tho, they were quite enjoyable).

And besides, Batman become an icon in the 80s thanks to TDR. So, saying that Batman was "killed" in 80s isn't accurate.

>>90420627
Kathy or Bruce?
Because both are terrible.

>>90420751
>Kathy or Bruce?
Huh? What are you talking about?

>>90420829
The original

>>90420843
I'm talking about the original Nocturna and how the new version of her is inferior.

>>90409806
>It's actually pretty interesting watching how opinions change when the consensus on their book's quality changes.
"Quality" being relative. I remember /co/ dickriding Tim almost as hard as Tom DeFalco back during the Red Robin days. I honestly think a lot of the hate you see for him nowadays is just people who got sick of his fanboys, especially when one of the main reasons they love him is literally "Because I can self-insert as a nerdy white boy who knows a lot about Batman."

>>90421372
If /co/ hates Tim because of his fanboys (and there's no denying that they are really annoying), then why Dick isn't hated here too considering that he has the worst fanboys?

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>>90420427
I didn't know they updated her, but anything would have to be better than "criminal who isn't really a criminal but just kind of a nuisance and tries to seduce Batman with longwinded soliloquys about THE NIGHT and an oh-so-exciting lengthy custody battle."

>>90420480
I liked most of 80s Batman, I loved the Max Allan Collins run and how he used "Jay" there, but I honestly can't say I liked Doug Moench's work all that much, and his stuff on 80s Batman least of all. There's still stuff I enjoy about that run, like his glorious weirdos Black Mask or DR. FANG, but I mean, when people think of Harvey Bullock, they think of him as he's existed from the 90s onward, not the weirdly verbose dirty cop in cahoots with the mob who's secretly a neat freak cinephile. And when they want a temptress love interest for Batman, they don't use Nocturna.

>>90420339
It's not that one page, that's just emblematic of the whole run - it's page after page of WORDSWORDSWORDS and this really bad, soap operatic love triangle between Nocturna, whose only crime that I can remember is unlicensed hot air ballooning, so why she has an alias beyond her getting moist about THE NIGHT is never explained, but she also has a generic crazed killer love interest named THE NIGHT SLAYER, and I assure you that it's nowhere near as exciting as that may sound. It was slow and turgid in a time when Batman comics were still largely self-contained, and it didn't help that it revolved around them fighting over PRE-Crisis Jason, who was a complete cipher of a character.

It also felt like Moench was trying to push Nocturna as both a legit love interest and possibly permanent addition to the Bat-family... despite the fact Selina Kyle was RIGHT THERE. Thankfully Max Allan Collins started to tease that relationship again, and Miller picked it up and ran with it.

TL,DR: it just went on too damn long, much like this post, and left me feeling like pic related.

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>>90421953
But there have been threads dedicated entirely to shitting on Dick! And they DID come about precisely right around the time the Dickfags got a little too big for their britches.

Honestly, I've been here long enough I've seen ALL of the male Robins go through clashing waves of love and hate, and it doesn't help that a Dickfag is likely to shit all over Tim, a Timfag is likely to shit all over Damian, a Damifag is likely to shit all over Jason, and a Jasonfag is likely to shit all over everyone and post the "WHY DOENS'T BATMAN KILL THE JOKUR?" thread for the hundredth time this week.

Personally, I think Robin wars are ridiculous.
We all know Carrie Kelley is objectively the best.

>>90422208
>-ttt-
>not -tt-

triggered

>>90418634
I don't have anything to add to this post, you covered my opinions more succinctly than I ever would, I just wanted you to know you're not alone. I think NTT has aged like milk too, and the cartoon is legitimately better. I only regret they didn't get around to adapting the space opera stuff, esp. since Starfire was the only one who didn't get an arc.

>>90422046
>And when they want a temptress love interest for Batman, they don't use Nocturna
Batman had a various love interest the 80s and not just Nocturna.

She was actually used as a love interest for a very short time.

>Nocturna as both a legit love interest and possibly permanent addition to the Bat-family
There wasn't even a batfamily at that time because there were only Batman, Jason and Alfred.

And Nocturna was only used for one arc and was killed off later. I completely doubt that they had a plan to make her join Batman permanently because they were actually pushing Catwoman.

>it's page after page of WORDSWORDSWORDS
Is that seriously your problem with it? Because of "words"?

>who was a complete cipher of a character.
I disagree because I actually like pre-crisis Jason and how he grew into his role as Robin instead of putting him in the costume immediately like they done with the rest.

>Harvey Bullock
The 80s was the only period where Bullock was pushed over Gordon and I actually liked how he was potrayed.

>I didn't know they updated her, but anything would have to be better than "criminal who isn't really a criminal
You wouldn't say that if you actually know what they have done to her and Nocturna was a criminal. It's just there is more to her than meets the eye and I really liked her backstory.

>>90421953
Dick isn't that well liked here honestly. His fans are just very loud and they do get told to freak off many times. Not to mention that they are easy to contain because all they care about is Dick's ass and shipping.

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>>90409595
>Cause usually /co/ isn't so contrarian.

>>90422933
this
People only like Dick for fanservice

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>>90422664
>Is that seriously your problem with it? Because of "words"?
As some smartass once said, "Brevity is the soul of wit." I don't mind reading, but when your dialogue is mostly either purple prose or banal, unnatural dialogue, than yeah, I have a problem with it.

I mean, look at pic related. In the context of the story, do you really need all those dialogue balloons of her talking to her dog/herself just to describe what's self-evident? You could do the entire thing without dialogue and it would be the same.

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>>90423478
And it's not even moments like that that stick out in my mind.

Shit like this is.

I can't tell what's more unsettling - Alfred using the phrase "jump his bones", or Jason smacking his ass while complimenting him like he's a gay man congratulating his straight friends for trying anal for the first time.

>>90414388
>I'm not a normal kid
Jason looks pretty sexy there.

>>90417963
Dick seems pretty indifferent about Jason being a hentai monster.

>>90423478
This hardly more bubbles than normal in comics and that girl was blind and had no one besides the dog. So, it's not really strange that she's like to talk to her dog.

And Nocturna was pretty talkative, it's part of her personality. And I don't disagree with you that the custody arc was longer than necessary and I myself ignored some of what Nocturna say, but I don't think it's so bad or offensive and I actually end up liking her and enjoying the arc.

>>90423581
>Alfred using the phrase "jump his bones"
What's wrong with the pharse?

>Jason smacking his ass
He didn't. He actually his his back, not his ass.

And honestly, you are just searching for reasons to get triggered.

>>90423581
He smacked his back, anon. Just look at the lines.

>>90423916
Exactly, pretty easy to spot dickfags because of that. They tends to always sees everything in a very gay way.

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>>90423972
What would they see in this

>>90424945
Stopping his attack from cass by stucking his own wrist knife?
What else?
You don't read comics do you? You just look at dick and called it a day, you don't even know the story don't you?

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>>90417954
>Dick being Bruce's son is a fairly recent thing, but don't tell Batfamilyfags
Understand that Dick was Robin for 40 years. If you're going to make broad sweeping statements like that without having read it all, you'll have people who have crawling out of the woodwork to call you on your shit.

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>>90425643

>>90424945
I love how you can see Jason looking at his lost tankard and hating Dick more in that moment than any time in the last two decades.