Are they actually racist stereotypes or are we just projecting

>>90302446
They are actually racist stereotypes and we (you) are not projecting it because blaxploitation was common and is still used today, albeit more subtly in advertising and certain works of fiction.

>>90302446
Those crows actually are suppose to be an omage, than just a stereotype.

>support Dumbo
>are actually voiced by black people
why am I supposed to be offended? Because they were based on real black people?

>>90302587
the main crow was voiced by a white man and was named Jim Crow

>>90302446
Did you ever think that they are just acting like crows in their universe are acting and by connecting them to people within our universe and by making that connection, you and anyone else who does that connection is a racist?

>>90302446
What if the birds are black coded ?

>>90302626
>>90302538
here come the mental gymnastics. You know clear and well what they were doing, and yes, it is offensive. Doesn't mean you have to admit that everything is racist or sexist, though.

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>>90302446
Who cares, and why should anybody care?

>>90302667
>I like to end discussions with dead end responses

Guess we shouldn't talk about anything ever.

>>90302660
As a matter of fact, i dont know what is so offensive about it.
Care to elaborate?

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Let's just post dumbo

>>90302660
Explain why it is bad. Is having birds act like black people really so terrible? If so, why? Muh fee fees? Any valid reasons?
http://takimag.com/article/whats_the_matter_with_blackface_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz4Zxx42C7G

>>90302685
They are clearly portraying crows as a stereotypical black guy, when black people were just in movies to be laughed at. Or do you just miss the good ole days?

Omage? Don't insult this boards intelligence.

>>90302685
It's less in the dialogue and more in the attitude. It's a very "yus mastha, of course mastah" stereotype. As well as: >>90302617

>Are they actually racist stereotypes or are we just projecting it because we're looking at it from a modern day viewpoint?

Neither.

They are about as stereotypical as Timothy Q. Mouse, the mouse in Dumbo.

>>90302660
You're making a common error. A work cannot be inherently offensive. You need an audience, and a point in time to make that determination.

>>90302446

No evidence of them being stereotypes, so no. People just assume they're stereotypical because of their own views on race and racism. They don't understand either, and they assume others don't as well.

>>90302716
>>90302718
Well im afraid im not spotting it, i just see them as being a bunch of cool guys who help Dumbo out of a tree.

Could have something to do with the fact that im not American and so i havent been told forever about how a black guy acts, either in 1930s nor in present day.

>>90302718
thanks for being proof of >>90302726

OP: Don't just believe something because someone claims it or because it seems correct or matches up with your beliefs. Demand evidence, especially when it comes to accusation of exploitation.

>>90302677
The problem is that there are retarded people who have made shit like this into part of the curriculum of entire university courses

Honestly it would be easier to start destroying things like this movie so that the people who whine about it shut the fuck up

And if they don't shut up we cut out their tongues and put out their eyes so they can neither speak nor see again

>>90302707
Because it was an inaccurate, and mean spirited portrayal of how the white man saw black people. It wasn't something they were laughing with black people, they were flat out laughing at them.

It was equivalent of a 5 year old making fun of something just because they were different. Immature, childish, and added very little to any sort of plot.

>hurr durr, these niggers are black and eat watamelens and say massa

If you honestly dont see the issue with this, you are beyond saving. Jump into a fire. Read ANY bit of the shit that went down, during that time period. It also was dehumanizing and continued the notion that black people were just dumb niggers that needed to serve the white man.

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>>90302685
>>90302538
stop using made up explanations, if they weren't racist they would have been in Dumbo 2, which they weren't because of the implications of having a literal Jim "crow" along with other crows played by black men and the main crow voiced by a white man using common speech characteristics that are often parodied in early 29th century cartoons and features.

>>90302512
>blaxploitation
I don't think you're using that word right.

>>90302762
THERE WAS A DUMBO 2??

>>90302762
>that are often parodied in early 29th century cartoons and features.

Well shit, sorry, didnt know this was still such a hot topic 1000 years from now...

>>90302762
they're in other films and cartoons, so I guess they're not racist at all

and again, NO EVIDENCE for your claims

>>90302779
planned to be, never saw the light of day, just a trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpac3C3P76Q

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Aside from Timothy, they were the only characters who felt bad for Dumbo and actually helped him. I didn't understand as a kid that they were supposed to be black people, but if I had realized that back then, I probably would've thought "wow, black people are cool".

>>90302786
Yeah the world kinda just gets stuck in a time loop sometime around 2041

>>90302752
>Demand evidence

Problem is, if I were to ever link you someone else's deconstruction on why they are stereotypes with other references made throughout Hollywood's history, you'd still call bullshit on it because people like you are so gun-ho on being as anti-SJW as possible, you end up flipping on the other side and convincing yourselves, "T-the crows can't be stereotypes! Because they're good guys who help Dumbo!".

Stereotypes aren't inherently bad. Sandy Cheeks is a Texan stereotype. Hermes is a Jamaican stereotype. Speedy is a stereotype. That doesn't make them inherently bad or "wrong", but they are stereotypes.

>>90302786
You really think racism is just... you know... over? Fuck off you privileged cunt. Yeah I said it.

>>90302795
You're just being difficult at this point. You're feigning ignorance. Just fucking admit you like seeing this disingenuous depiction of niggers, take your racist card, shove it up your ass and just not care. Why even bother trying to hide it? Nobody is going to do shit to you. The worst is, "ohh this guy is a piece of shit".

>>90302716
Well see, the thing is, I don't know about americans, but most people can tell the difference between reality and fiction.

Like, when I saw those crows as a kid, I didn't immediately assume all black people talked like that.

>>90302837
Yeah i know, it's ok to hate whites, i fucking get it.

>>90302835
Jump into two fires after equally basting yourself on each side. So you can be uhxtra crispy like massa fried sicken!

fuck off You're not just a cunt, you're a tattle tail cunt.

>>90302446
The crows are total bros to Dumbo, the "Jim Crow" pun was probably a bit on the nose at the time, but nothing about these characters is really bad or dislikable. And some black people did fucking talk like that (and some still pretty much do) it's no more offensive than a foriegn or regional actor's actual stereotypical accent of the place they're from.

>no amusing stereotypes of people who were historically oppressed allowed
>even if they are fairly accurate and black people are capable of laughing at themselves
Frankly if you legitimately find these guys offensive and aren't just pretending for (you)'s, I don't care what color it is, you've got some thin fucking skin.

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>>90302707
>http://takimag.com/article/whats_the_matter_with_blackface_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz4Zxx42C7G

the second reason given is the real one, the rest is a lot of repetition, some strawmanning and cherrypicking quotes from morons to try to somehow weaken the opposing argument

pic related is the counterargument to reason 2... how does this constitute an argument in any way?

the whole article is written based on the unspoken assumption that black oppression ended forever on may 9 of 1865

>>90302819
OP asked if they were racist stereotypes. The crows are stereotypes of black people during that time period.
Whether they are good or bad depictions doesn't really change the fact that it's racist. If I say "all Asians are good at math" there is a broader implication of what is wrong with that assertion that goes beyond the intent of the statement or how it makes one person feel over the other.

>>90302819
>shit I don't have evidence, what should I do?
>I know, I'll just make up some BS about the anon
>that certainly isn't a personal attack
>also, I'll throw in a line about stereotypes that completely destroys my argument about the crows being racist

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>>90302859

Remember kids, it's ok when liberals do it!

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They're a stereotype but they're also the only people in the entire movie to give Dumbo a shot despite it all.

So the stereotype is "black people are goofy but morally superior to whites."

>>90302867
Course not. It's never ever going to end when being poor and uneducated is classified as race-specific oppression

>>90302848
Do you honestly think that "Hey there is a side to America that white people DO NOT SEE" equals "kill whitey"? If that is where your brain jumps to, you are seriosuly fucked up. Does it take that much of a leap, just so you can delegitiize how fucking shit cops are? How many unproportionate arrests there are?

If you had a gun at you hip and got pulled over, think you'd be okay? probably. Change your skin tone and you have to walk on egg shells just to get out alive.

>inb4 niggers shouldn't back talk cops
a. It really doesn't happen that much
b. even if it did, does backtalking a cop equal a death warrant? You're legitimately ignorant for the sake of being ignorant. You're the worst kind of person.

I don't hate you because you are white, I hate you because you are a narrow minded cunt.

>>90302880
>racism is good or bad when I say it is

wow, great argument

>>90302837
Saying "racism is over" refers to the fact that the great, GREAT majority of people don't mind race. At all. Or at least used to, things have changed a lot in a few years.

Of course there's gonna be a few racist people, in the same way that there's always gonna be murderers, sadists and people with mental disorders. It happens. And when it happens, it should be treated on a case-by-case basis.

>>90302887
>implying libtard
fuck off with your them verussus bull shit.

>>90302898
I'm just glad they're focusing on cops so they continue to ignore black-on-black violence.

>>90302882
Just because the jive stereotype is not prevalent now doesn't mean it was not a stereotype back then.

Sorry the only rebuttal you could think of was greentext because you're so uninformed of how people were treated outside of the last decade.

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>>90302892
There are at least half a dozen things off the top of my head you are overlooking when making that statement, and if you can't or refuse to see that then there is really no helping someone like you.

>>90302751

Same. I am Dutch and never saw them as racist util the internet yelled at me about them. I thought they were just goofballs who were helping Dumbo.

Americans are so sensitive about everything.

>>90302918
>no evidence

Guess I shouldn't be looking for water in a dry well.

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>>90302716
>when black people were just in movies to be laughed at.

The most common movie trope from that era involving black people is the "magical negro" trope, where a simple-living yet intellectually underestimated black person bestows great wisdom upon the muddled and mixed up white central characters. This character was about as commonly laughed at as Yoda. Don't talk out of your ass and confuse minstrel shows with actual films.

>>90302929
If I watched a Japanese film and saw a Korean character portrayed in a certain way that was considered stereotypical to people in Asia, just because I don't see it because I'm not familiar enough with their society doesn't make it "not a stereotype".

>>90302761
>>90302762
>>90302837

The musical number wasn't out of line for other jazz and swing works that you'd find at the Apollo or Cotton Club.

Works made by black people for black audiences.

It's on par with modern bigots calling Cab Calloway a racist.

Audio related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svoSSdsNhtA

>>90302617
>the main crow was voiced by a white man and was named Jim Crow

is this what jim crow laws are named after

>>90302917
Oh yeah, interesting thing about that. White on white crimes are just as proportional to black on black. Of fucking COURSE when you take statistics from a black community black on black will be high.

jesus. Now if you actually look at NATIONAL numbers, there is a ridiculously disproportionate number of African Americans.

Are you really that much in denial that you can't even admit there is a fucking problem?

Fucking. Americans.

>>90302928
Course there is, what I said was very simple

>>90302931
What "evidence" do you want exactly? A wikipedia link to "Black life in 1950s"? Like, are you really that uneducated or something that you need to be spoonfed basic history?

>>90302912

>fuck off with your them verussus bull shit
>telling someone that they don't deserve to live if they don't find something non-harmful to be disturbing

You started it.

>>90302957
Wrong board, /pol/ is that way.

>>90302952
Did you just assume my nationality?

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>>90302907
>Whether they are good or bad depictions doesn't really change the fact that it's racist
>racism is good or bad when I say it is

>>90302936
Are you seriously that fucked up that you are comparing racial depictions of black people to fucking YODA?

Really? Reaching. You are fucking reaching. But please, tell me all about how awesome and wonderful people were like when treating black people back then.

>>90302936
I've never understood why the magical negro was offensive.

It's basically saying "black people are smarter and wiser than white people and probably have magic powers". How the fuck is that a negative stereotype?

>>90302948

No. The Jim Crow figure the crow's name is based on is the name giver for the laws.

>>90302837
>You really think racism is just... you know... over? Fuck off you privileged cunt. Yeah I said it.

Racism is about as integral to the human experience as wanting to fuck. Racism isn't inherently bad because everyone is inherently racist. It's only when you express racism negatively that it becomes an issue.

>>90302862

This.

>>90302971
Yes. It's easy to fucking read. Only Americans have this much delusion and aversion to facts.

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>>90302981
You appear to be upset

Have a meme and calm down

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>>90302948
>Jim the Crow
>Dumbo (1941)
>Jim Crow
>between 1877 and the mid-1960s

>>90302982
It's the same as "all Asians are good at math". Generalization is negative overall because it paints people with traits they may not have just because of physical appearance.

>>90302945
I think that's your problem.
Phobia of stereotypes.

Or it could be that in Europe we are just too used to stereotyping other Europeans, giving them accents and ways they work and so on and so forth and then when you watch anything American they are suddenly walking on eggshells with stereotypes.

>>90302963
>I still lack evidence, what should I do now?
>I'll call anon a retard for not agreeing with me

>>90302982
I think some people's real issue is when they're usually wisdom dispensers for white people or whatever.

>>90302446

Yes.

>>90303009
>I can greentext too.

Doesn't make it an argument.

>>90302936
>>90302981
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9lG6uCOSH4

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>>90302981

Yes, I am comparing the character to Yoda. In fact Yoda was even more negatively conveyed because he at least had that part of the film where Luke thought he was just a stupid obnoxious gremlin. Compare that to magical negro characters, who were never portrayed negatively; they were always given as little screentime as possible so they could bestow their great wisdom upon the protagonists and then leave the movie.

Now that's ACTUAL racism, since a lot of directors didn't want to cast a spotlight on black actors or have to pay them too much or invite them to premieres. You should be focusing on that instead of bitching about human nature and being pic related.

>>90302446
They are racial stereotypes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's racist

>>90303008
The difference how much is it used to hurt them in real life

>>90302929
makes sense, a lot of europe is racist as fuck

>>90302996
Wow, how racist of you

Let's not forget how there are other countries that still execute people for witchcraft

>crows

>southern

>exaggerated black affectations

Gee, I wonder.

>>90303037
Is there a database somewhere I can lookup whether or not certain stereotypes are too offensive to use?

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>>90303037

I think whips and slavery and lacking equal rights hurt black people more than how they were portrayed in fucking Dumbo

>>90302929
the birds are pretty racist, not as racist as The Song of the South but they have played Dumbo on TV in like 35 years for a reason, all the video releases have a "hey it was a different time" PSA

and it's easy to be insensitive when you when your minority population is so small they have no voice to say "Hey, I don't like that", In America we have to get along as best we can

>>90302945

What is wrong with stereotypes? Almost all comedy is based on stereotypes, and a lot of fiction is too. Especially in Disney movies. Stereotypes are not inherently racist, and they only become stereotypes because they are partly true. There is nothing inherently racist about those crows. Or is the fat bastard in Austin Powers racist against Dutch people too?

>>90303048
It's like 4AM, the mods are asleep.

>>90303048
>Everyone i dont like is [INSERT TERM OF THE MONTH HERE]

>>90303048
>hateposting
Is... is this a term now?

>>90303072
I already stated and agreed with that sentiment way back here: >>90302819

People still got pissed off.

>>90303072
I thought Fat bastard was supposed to be Scottish.

>>90303042
>x country still does this
>that means the shit we deal with here is dismissible

Hey, you know in some countries there are still beheadings? That means school shootings in America are just things to whine about. It's not that bad in the grand scheme of things, right?

Fuck off with your stupid ass logic.

>>90303048
BACK
TO
TUMBLR

>Thread posted 49 minutes ago
>Almost 100 replies
>Nearly 4AM

/pol/ never sleeps.

>>90303081
Anon, i think we have just met a native who has traveled all the way here from the rain forests of Tumblr.

>>90303039
they also don't have to deal with white guilt so they don't have to give a shit in the first place

>>90303039

Yeah, everyone is biased, it's the number one human trait. Guess what, minorities are racist too.

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>it's a "lets see how many newfags are awake at this hour" episode

>>90303094
>"Only Americans have this much delusion and aversion to facts."
>Only Americans
>Only
Man, if you just wanted to say "Only countries that actually matter half a damn" just say so. Otherwise I get to bring up African shitholes

>>90303116
>not actually a gif

Why do that.

>>90303101
Well they're certainly angry enough. Jesus

>>90303111
>Guess what, minorities are racist too.
Nah, that article I read about an LA latino gang murdering blacks to get them out of their neighborhoods was just white propaganda

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>"Leave Dumbo alone y-you, you... you fucking NIGGERS!"

Whoah, am I the only one who think Disney went too far here?

>>90303128
Then why are you dumpster diving here?

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Why can't tumblr ever come up with a coherent, simple argument?

Of course the crows were stereotypes. The drunk clowns were also stereotypes. The kids who threw rocks at Dumbo were also stereotypes. What's your fucking point?

>>90303069

By minority you mean black? That's racist of you.

We have significant numbers of black people, moroccan and turkish people, amd indonesian people who all try to get along, snowflake.

>>90303128
Isn't it great?

This isn't tumblr where you have to pretend to be nice to certain people

>>90303142
>Why can't tumblr ever come up with a coherent, simple argument?
Because women only function on emotions.

>>90302947
He're's another disney number for comparison to dumbo. It's from Hercules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5s0W1xsV1U

>>90303124
its just another image format bruh

>>90303146
Blacks are just the loudest minority, though muslims are getting right up there

>>90303155
It's weird, I kinda liked the idea of turning them into gospel singers but I fucking HATE gospel

>>90303164
Hank, go home, you dont even know what a Jpeg is.

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How did this show get away with having every villian as a racial stereotype? It wasn't even that long ago...

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>>90303152
You mean this isn't Tumblr where people will try to virtue-signal you by doing genuinely offensive things and if you disagree with them, you run the risk into having a bunch of people shitting replies to you or sending you private messages call you a -ist of any kind.

I fucking love the anonymity of this place. Any offensive shit washes right off because I can just chalk it up to potential shitposting. Unlike pic related, which is actually offensive.

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>>90303171

Black people rarely give a shit. Sometimes a few hop on board to try and get shit (attention, money, fame) but black people on their own seldom give a crap what whitey portrays them as in their movies or music or whatever.

>>90303176
CartoonNetwork took more chances back then because they were not in that many homes or popular yet. It's why Johnny Bravo could get away with the virgin joke in the pilot (On top of the concept of just a guy hitting on ladies for an entire series), why Two Stupid Dogs could get away with a lot of its adult jokes, why Powerpuff Girls could be extra violent to the point of stabbing a monster in its throat with a spike, why Cow and Chicken could have some adult jokes, and so forth.

>>90303142
they cant form a coherent argument because they're afraid to explain it in a straightforward manner

basically the entire culture that came up with blackface comes from is degenerate and all traces of it need to be scrubbed from the earth

>>90303183
Did they just blackwash/humanwash an elf?
What the fuck?

>>90303183
>This brown space elf was OBVIOUSLY supposed to be black
Fucking idiots don't understand the superiority of 2D brown girls

>>90303192
Well the best part is, minorities don't have to get upset anymore, there are plenty of white people to do it for them.

>>90303211
The only kind of brown person is black and all brown humanoids have black features.

Goddamn it's 2015+2!
GET WOKE

>>90303209
>basically the entire culture that came up with blackface comes from is degenerate and all traces of it need to be scrubbed from the earth

So liberal Hollywood?

Remember how the KKK was always portrayed as backwoods republican hicks but a majority of members were actually democrats?

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>>90303211
They gave her "more black facial features" because "Dreamworks doesn't know what black people look like". And the artist did this by adding actual nigger-esque features (Big nose, big lips). Which is doubly offensive considering they think all black people come from the same sect of the planet and therefore have the same facial genes, and even worse is that they completely forget this is a fucking elf and doesn't really adhere to reality's gene pool.

>>90302929
America has a different history with black people than Europe does, and they have things they get sore about. It makes sense that Americans might pay more attention to how black people are portrayed in fiction. Meanwhile, Europe has reasons to get sensitive about groups like gypsies, jews or muslims, whereas America's past and present with them is different.

I can see how the crows are black stereotypes after it was explained to me once. But I don't really see a problem with their appearance since their portrayal is so positive, and I don't see how they should've portrayed them instead. Leave out the black accents so that they don't sound like black people? Don't let them sing black-sounding music? Give them clothes that look more dignified and nothing like what black people at the time would've been wearing? Would it have been better if they were just a group of crows and nothing about them appeared black? Would erasing everything black about the situation be preferable to having a positive portrayal of black people?

>>90303183
>>90303236
Modern day liberals are the most disgusting fucking people on the planet.

>>90303256
Call them as they are.
Progressives.

>>90303239
Europe literally put africans in the zoo

>>90303002

That's retarded. Generalisation is impossible to avoid. I dunno about you, but I like being a credit to my people and I take pride in their reputation for intellectual prowess, even if not everyone actually has it in equal measure. Sometimes Western individualism just goes too far.

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>>90303275
>Hyper white people with big fake smiles saying they care about you and know what's best for you even though they literally don't give a shit if you get screwed over by the things that keep them in power in the first place.

Makes sense now.

>>90303236
To be fair, how else are you going to make someone look black without black features?

Like, how black can you make a character before it gets offensive? It's the sort of question that leads things like Overwatch to have two asian characters who don't look asian at all because even the slightest narrowing of their eyes would probably have been met with incoherent rage

>>90303275
Regressives is a better word. Personally I can't wait for the return of "Colored Only" facilities

Sorry, I mean "People of Colored Only" facilities

>>90303294

Please delete this, that woman is an offensive stereotype of customer service and salespeople.

>>90303171
Consider though: Exaggerated black mannerisms, complete with stereotypical fat black women.

>>90303155
>>90303116
Here's the big production from the Aristocats, where pretty much every fucking character is a massive nationlistic or ethnic stereotype.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rrXR6n0RTY

>>90303207
Also, the christfags were the primary issue, just getting free of the FCC was a big move, and the permatriggered left didn't have power yet.

>>90303211
>>90303236
Pretty much. Some also insisted on doing it to Moana's characters. But life is to short to worry about what individual retards are doing.

>>90303295
Dont you mean "POC Safe space facilities, POC Only"?

But yeah, it's miraculous how folks like that can go around claiming to be morally superor and calling everyone around them as racists while they themselves expect people to act 100% like the group they are part of (Skin color, sex, sexual orientation, etc).

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>>90303295
The answer is "Does it fit the art style".

Chloe doesn't need slanted eyes for us to know she's Asian. At one point, she speaks (I think Korean?) to her parents, which is enough.

Simpsons made the decision to make other skinned characters tan or black rather than a universal yellow-bodied world.

Adventure Time only has dots for eyes, so any black character would also have dots for eyes. They won't change it to "make it more black".

>>90303321
Man I fucking hate how we were freed of soccer moms only to fall into the nouveau-puritain left

At least the soccer moms were predictable.

>>90303327
Nothing makes them angrier than minorities not voting democrat

>>90303345
Thank goodness in the Simpsons all the people were yellow already

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>>90303321
>that video

At least I'm no longer confused about how we ended up with furries.

>>90303353
And they weren't completely and utterly insane.
Just very unhinged and overly protective.

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>>90303321
>everyone points out the asian cat as offensive
>nobody points out the jolly moron german cat

>>90303321
>That era of Disney animation where a lot of their repeated walk cycles skated across the ground plane.

I don't know why it triggers me so. It happens a lot in Robin Hood, too. And I think Jungle Book and 101 Dalmatians.

>>90303374
>"We can make/have this character be overtly sexual in kids/family programming because they're an animal and it doesn't register"
Oh how naive we were as a people

>>90303385
Germans are white, bro. For now, anyway

>>90302446
They are racial stereotypes, but not racist stereotypes. They act exactly as jazz musicians did back then.

>>90303385
No one gives a shit about white people stereotypes because there's no history to offset the guilt and make you feel good about sticking up for the little guy. It's why all Texans are cowboys and why we can laugh at white hicks and hillbillies but dumb city ghetto black characters can only belong in adult cartoons.

>>90303389

Add in Sword in the Stone.

>>90302802
This idea could work, if the other characters were silent like Dumbo.

>>90302802
>A flightless bird being jealous of an elephant who can fly

I actually really like that concept.

>>90303321
Another comparison piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JDzlhW3XTM

Fun factoid: The part of King Louie the orangutang was originally going to be going to Louis Armstrong. But because they were worried about looking racist by casting a black guy as a monkey, they went with a white italian american musician instead.

It's the natural result of treating every stereotype as racist.

>>90303385
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRET1vsfiJM

Tom O'maley was written as a wandering Irish pikey stereotype. Scatt Cat is another black jazz musician stereotype, Dutchess is rich and french,

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>>90302762
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Here are the crows on stage in "who framed roger rabbit", as Jessica Rabbit's band.

Here they are in the House of Mouse, at about 44 secs in. Voiced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5MUvymBAVs

And in any case you have the causality backwards. It's easily triggered bitches that move disney. Not the other way around.

>>90303327
>Dear Disney, I find your stereotypical portrayal of black people in Dumbo offensive
>As an enlightened progressive soul, I know from watching TV that black people are not as kind, helpful and fun loving as the crows
>instead they should be calling each other "nigger", celebrating their proud history of gangsta rap music and hate white people, refusing to help Dumbo because he doesn't need any help due to elephant privilege
>this is the kind of modern, realistic depiction of colored people of color media needs

so for the people calling it racist, if you're associating black people to crows aren't you being racist by likening black people to animals?
so if you're saying these crows are black people and crows are animals, isn't it hypocritical to say it's racist because you're implying that black people are animals? and calling black people animals is racist.

So, wuz they cruws n shiet?

>>90303706

>house of mouse

Holy fuck that whole thing is a giant drug fueled nightmare, I can't watch any more my god. I don't know how anyone managed to cobble that shit together and think it was good.

>>90302446
One of them is named Jim Crowe. That's a pretty dead giveaway to what was in mind here.

Compare it to say the crows in Fritz the Cat where it's just a representation for them (Like how cops are literally pigs) but a lot of the dialogue for the crows in that movie was just college students being invited to come in and riff about whatever.


Meanwhile this is...nothing but a stereotype and the name is a giveaway. Plus it was made in an era where racism in media was still iffy. There's way worse in disney media that the company has tried to hide from public eye in the modern age (Like the slave centaur in Fantasia who got edited out in later releases)

>>90303048
>I can generalize everyone I don't like because they're evil, but if they generalize anyone else it's further proof that they're evil
Modern liberalism.

>>90303072
Racism only exists when it's applied to non-whites, didn't you know? It's okay to generalize all white people, because they deserve it for simply existing, the fucking fascists.

lets hope this everything is racist, you hurt my feelings mentality is gone by 2020. it's come to the point where people start crying about cartoons, literally bitching about crows because they sound black. it's come to the point where people complain about fictional Fucking birds because they sound black.
there's children starving in Africa but noooo these illustrations of birds, fucking birds are a bigger issue than that. the hypocritical mentality of this generation of pansy ass imbeciles leave me sick. it's all you do day and night is complain.

>>90302692
DUMBO A CUTIE

>>90302685
there's nothing offensive about it as it's a cartoon, cartoons are fictional and don't apply to the real world.

>>90303295
Not all black people have the same facial structure. I live in Detroit, Michigan, and I honestly wonder if that Tumblr artist has ever even met a black person in real life. Big lips and big nose /= black person, nor does brownish skin.

The crows certainly are black stereotypes, and it isn't explicitly said but maybe the reason they sympathize and are so ready to help and support dumbo is they relate to being treated like freaks by the rest of society?

>>90303983
Keep in mind that these things are probably the biggest problems in the lives of pampered, middle class white teenagers/college students. Starvation, genocide, war are all things that happen where we can't see them, and therefore aren't important. What is important is whatever affects me personally right now, and that happens to be a decades-old cartoon that I think is racist. If you disagree you're a fascist scum, remember to not generalize people <3

>>90302446
Of course not blacks are the most inept criminals on earth.

>>90304100
Whoa I didn't know fictional characters had feelings.

Actually, racism as a concept was made up and spread into western society by the media between the 40's and 60's.

It's not a logical concept, so people can still struggle to know when they see it because it's basically a meme that was spread through repetition. You "know" it when you see it, because others identify it for you, it's a mass delusion.

Before the adoption of that concept people just saw generalizations based on observation of reality when pertinent to the topic of race as they'd see them in any other case.
Things were much more objective and logical.

Any depiction of black people or black culture that isn't just a brown white person is considered 'racist'.

Do black people actually care about this?

>>90303039
Does it actually count as racism if the people themselves agree with it, are also entertained by it and aren't offended?

Why is tumblr here?

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Ya like jazz and pretending that incredibly stereotypical crows voiced by white people putting up their best "mastu" impression along with one being named after the Jim Crow law isn't racist?

>>90304919
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
lllllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkeeeeee
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Explain what is inherently wrong with stereotypes?

>>90302446
Not racists, those were accurate for their time.
Just like in 10 years people will look at modern shit and notice all blacks are street smarts and all black women are sassy and degenerate, but for young people like you it's "progressive"

>Stealth /pol/ versus tumblr thread
god damn when will this shit end

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>>90305020
Like jazz and thinking everyone who doesn't put up with /pol/ is tumblr?

>>90302761
I don't think you've actually watched Dumbo. Also fuck off with this "help I'm being oppressed" shit, it's a cartoon from decades ago. Black people aren't slaves any more and have just as much fucking freedom as anybody else, so why shouldn't stereotypes of them be funny just like stereotypes of say, the fucking Irish or something? They don't get pissy about this kind of thing.

>>90305183
The Irish weren't chained, then segregated, and frequently hung for touching "the white women".
They took a ton of shit, but nothing on that level.

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>>90305020
OBSESSED
B
S
E
S
S
E
D

>>90302928
>you lose and I hate you because of secrets I have in my heads that you should know
damn, this is some high level fanaticism.

>>90305214
And guess what, they no longer are.

Pretending people are still kept down today by stereotypes in a cartoon from 70 fucking years ago is just excuses. There are successful wealthy blacks and there are poor blacks who live in poverty, just like there are successful wealthy whites and poor whites who live in poverty. Just like there are successful wealthy women and poor women who live in poverty. The only thing keeping anyone down now is their own fucking victim complexes.

>>90305020
>anyone who isn't an insane libtard is /pol/

>>90302446
Stereotypes aren't racist.

>>90305264
>the only thing holding them back is victim complex

This is the sad truth, the dogmatic left who are thinking they are saving black people are actually sowing the seeds for their failure.

We need to break up inner city gangs and stop drugs from coming in, and stop pushing "gangster" culture, and they will finally rise up.

Dumbo isn't doing shit to hurt the black community, and it's a real shame that cartoonists can only exaggerate white people.

>>90302947
Technically the Cotton Club was black performers white audience.

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I thought nothing of it when I was a kid.

>>90302986
/thread

>>90302446
Star vs. has every single character talking like nigger.

>>90303048
Or else what?
Where are your red thumbs?
Where are your admins?
Where are your downvotes?
Where are your mute buttons?

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>>90305537
Same. It's fucking cartoons, that media is filled with one note characters, simplifications of the world and all kind of stuff for kids because, it's for kids and they don't give a shit.

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Remember, it's only when you make black characters look like less than brain surgeons is it racist.

>>90303077
>jew
>shill
>SJW
>tumblr
>Reddit
>Mr.Enter
>that fandom that /co/ fear so much they still whisper 7 years about the facts about how they were banished to the legendary board of Con-Tain-Ment

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>>90306885

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>>90302948
Jim Crow was the name of a minstrel character, the performer who invented him was making fun of a seriously crippled slave he saw limping around one day.
The character was an occasionally violent and frequently criminal fellow that emulated the aspects people feared in the free men of the day- that's why they named them the Jim Crow laws.

Black people don't even talk or act like that anymore.

It's totally irrelevant and an anachronism in the modern world. So I say, not really racist, just really, really outdated and kinda stupid since most stuff made before the late 60s was kinda racist anyway.

Jesus you cry when they get representation and cry about it when they don't.

>>90307082
>that fandom that /co/ fear so much they still whisper 7 years about the facts about how they were banished to the legendary board of Con-Tain-Ment
You mean /sug/?

>>90305537
>>90306465
That's sort of the issue with a lot of obscure/indirect racial stereotypes.
Like the Crows are racist stereotypes because they emulate stereotypical Shuck and Jive Negro stereotypes. However those stereotypes don't tend to get a lot of play today. Then there's kids who don't even know dick about racist stereotypes in the first place.
If you show a black face character to a person who doesn't know about black face, it's just a goofy looking character.

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>the /co/mblr meme is real
jesus christ

>>90305221
now you have me wanting pancakes anon.

>>90302617
But the crows are way nicer to Dumbo than everyone else

>>90307616
Do you post this anytime there's any difference in political opinions in a thread? Like those faggots that scream GO BACK 2 POL!!!

>tfw you can call criticism of the negative aspects of your culture "stereotyping".

>>90302685
>>90302707

One of the crows is named Jim Crow.

For what its worth, Floyd Norman, Disney's first black animator, worked on Dumbo. He didn't have a problem with it, albeit he thought they were meant to resemble their voice actors (who were also black) and he didn't see them as a cariacture of blacks in general.

>>90302982
Even though they're smart, they're basically forced to live simply because of their status as black. It also implies that they are weak and submissive and only exist to help the white main character; that their happiness is derived from submitting to the white man.

>>90304223
Racism existed since the dawn of man. Racism has existed since the first man noticed that two things that look similar have similar properties, then started applying it to people too.

>>90307743
Dumbo isn't even fucking critical of black culture.

>>90307852
I think this is a case of reading too much into things. How many people, until relatively recently, wrote stories where the main character was of a different race or culture to themselves? Very few.

Some might say that was better than the patronising, unrealistic and often equally stereotypical portrayals of people from other races and cultures so called "progressive" writers (who are still mostly white) create today.

>>90303215
Im a little bothered that so many people use the word minority as "not white"

Like, damn I dont think most people even notice

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>>90303183
>black people don't look like that
>they all look the same!
This is absolutely fucking hilarious. These people can't see that they ARE the divisive racists now. I used to chuckle about the people of color = colored people thing but there's now literally no difference.
>it's important for minority races to keep their own cultures and not integrate. Stay separate! But equal!
>you shouldn't act like another race, that's offensive.
How long until we get to
>black people shouldn't interbreed with whites because it will dilute their culture.

>>90308243
I'm pretty damn sure that already happens.

>>90302538

A.) The word is "homage". Just because the "h" is silent does not mean you get to drop it and make up a new spelling as if you're the fucking Oxford Dictionary. LEARN YOUR FUCKING LANGUAGE.
B.) Doesn't matter if they are an homage to the shuckin'-and-jivin' dancin' negroes of the "yesteryear" when "Dumbo" was made. They're still racist as fucking fuck.

I don't think we should keep doing things like that, but I also don't think anyone should be offended by that.

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>>90302917
>thinks same race crimes are special

Stop listening to Trump

>>90302446
I feel like they had good intentions with the crows and weren't trying to be racist, but that doesn't mean it isn't racist. Let's face it, Disney's done MUCH more racist stuff in the past than these guys.

>>90303192
>black people on their own seldom give a crap what whitey portrays them as in their movies or music or whatever.

I'm 99% sure you're some combo of /pol/ and trolling, but...

Way to generalize about an entire group. "Black people are rarely offended by stereotypes," spoken like it's a fact?

I'm a big black guy. I'm not obese or unhealthy but I'm tall and stocky. I wouldn't be violent to anyone, but I constantly get dirty looks from white people who just expect me to beat them up or be menacing just because big black guys, in movies and TV are stereotypically shown as tough thugs.

Sometimes someone even shouts at me "get off the sidewalk, thug" when I'm just walking along minding my own business, even well dressed (so it's not like the insults come because I'm dressed badly).

Joking and irony aside, stereotypical images really shape how people view minorities. And even if basic unfriendly treatment isn't as bad as the actual lynchings we had to put up with in the 1960s and before, it's still bad.

>>90302617
My only problem was the main crow's name. Besides this is thought the crows were decent.

>>90303239
The easiest way to have a stereotypical minority in your work is to also have a non-stereotypical minority to contrast. The main reason people get up in arms is when the stereotypical portrayal is the only appearance that minority gets in a work.

>>90302446
Yes

>>90308376
I feel like the crows are the sassy black girl character now. We see it and we know damn, that's a stereotype, but we're so used to it we accept it. But in 50 years people will be looking back at those characters in utter shock of our "ignorance" and people will say "That's what it was like back then".

>>90307373
That's one of the good answer yes

>>90308391
Maybe you should stop walking around like a thug.

>>90303983
>lets hope this everything is racist, you hurt my feelings mentality is gone by 2020

Not as long as Trump is president

Why do some white people get triggered over the fact that the crows are based on racial stereotypes of black people of that time period? The characters themselves aren't maliciously racist, they do help Dumbo after all, but they are still based on a racial stereotype. To deny that stereotypical representations have been a part of American media for centuries is to deny history. Merely pointing out the truth isn't the same as saying we can't enjoy these characters, I know I do.

I think that allowing these stereotypically black characters to help Dumbo hopefully taught some of the white audience not to be so judgemental towards their black peers, but that's probably a pipe dream.

I'm not sure if some of you realize this, but exists something like justified criticism.
This was an obvious caricature of black people so it's ok to think that it's kinda racist.
When you dismiss it you are actually empowering the outrage cultists.

>>90308445

Nice try. I'm not that easily "triggered" as you would say.

But in case you're serious and not just shitposting, I'm talking about when I'm walking home from work or from my apartment to the food store down the road. I'm not just loittering in the street.

>>90302446

does it matter, is the better question.

>>90308376
>I feel like they had good intentions

That kinda falls apart for me when they named the leader Jim Crow.

>>90308587
I was just kidding, it's a shame that the US still behaves like that. That's one of the positives of having a heavily mixed nation, everyone is just seem as part of the shitfest.

>>90308562
If it doesn't have malicious intent what the fuck's the difference between a stereotype and an accurate portrayal? I've heard audio and video of actual black people from the early 20th Century and a lot of them DID sound like that.

>>90308660
>what the fuck's the difference between a stereotype and an accurate portrayal

There is none

>>90302617
oh good lord they made a reference

SHUT IT DOWN

>>90308615
It was never stated in-movie though, that was purely a behind-the-scenes production thing. You can't say that Snow White living with seven Dwarves is now an inappropriate movie because the animators used to draw nude Snow Whites in their spare time.

>>90303983
Dude theres children starving in China, America, and most of the damn world developed or not. Sick of africa getting all the starving kids attention. Children are starving.

>>90308660
It's not just about how they sound, it's also about how they act as well. If anything, the crows are also reminiscent of the trickster type character typically found in African/African American stories, as opposed to being the ne'er-do-wells found in racist propaganda.

>>90308615
>That kinda falls apart for me when they named the leader Jim Crow.

The crows are the definition of "fair for their day." It was clearly an attempt at a positive portrayal, the characters are friendly and helpful and smart even if they're slangy. But the portrayal was naïvely a bit insulting too, and naming the leader Jim Crow probably seemed like clever wordplay to someone but was crazy tasteless, especially at the time when we were still fighting those laws and constantly at risk of violent attacks.

It's not so embarrassing I wouldn't show it to kids. Kids today won't know the context and without it, the characters aren't offensive.
But in context for an older viewer they're difficult.

>>90303983
Why are you whining on an image board instead of feeding starving children, anon? Really says something about your priorities.

>>90308782
>Kids today won't know the context and without it, the characters aren't offensive.
This. But we shouldn't be surprised people are still being offended by it because this is what fucking SJWs are best at - Looking at everything in whatever context will MAKE it offensive, and even if the context isn't there they'll read things into it and make something up that makes it offensive, like a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

One paper, the crows are the *only* outsider characters who sympathize with Dumbo after Timothy verbally accosts them and become his allies/supporters to the point of helping him awaken to his unique ability of flight.

On paper, their portrayal implies that they too are a bunch of outcasts who would have every reason to sympathize with an abused and mocked child who *only wants to be reunited with his mom.* And their song was pretty rollicking.

On Paper.

I like the above interpretation and I try to stick with that every time I watch Dumbo, but I'm not gonna deny that in practice the portrayal of the crows is pretty racist, especially when their leader is fucking named Jim Crow. Yes, they were a positive force in terms of helping the film's protagonist, but It's still a backhanded compliment when they embody negative portrayals that Hollywood kept in perpetuity for decades.

>>90308568
I feel like challenging that thought could help to examine why we're so knee jerk about it in the first place. Not here because nothing on here matters but the fact people finger the Crows in Dumbo as racist and pondering what's the issue with the characters?
Sure they're racial stereotypes but they only work with the knowledge of those stereotypes in the first place. The Crows aren't a malicious portrayal of black people, they're not even black people. To kids they'd just be goofy animal characters.

>>90302446
Anything that isn't created by a committee of professional not white people and sanitized to the point of blandness is racist these days.
The concept of anything not being composed of purely banal overwhelmingly positive depictions of people that are multicultural rainbows is too upsetting to general audiences who may faint if a black guy is depicted as anything less than a brain surgeon.
The sad irony of all this is that in attempting to eradicate anything that could possibly be considered a sterotype they have made it impossible to depict anyone that isn't white as human, because to be human is to have flaws and for a minority to have flaws is problematic.

>>90309014
In my opinion it's the fact that it separates blacks as castes. Sure it's just a depiction of how things used to be, and I'm fine with that, we shouldn't erase history, but it's important to know that it shouldn't be done in today's world.
Blacks on the US are so fucking isolated on their own bubbles. Black neighborhoods, black restaurants, black words.
In here we don't have that, you can't make a black stereotype because they don't have distinguishing traits, they are like everyone else. Sure there's still racism but to a much lesser degree.

Modern blacks are fighting their own interest by falling to the left's lies that tells them to segregate further, shame whites and call out culture appropriation.

>>90302716
>They are clearly portraying crows as a stereotypical black guy
Doesn't that make you a racist for thinking the crows behavior represents black people?

>>90308331
Racial as fuck
Racism is well defined

>>90309014
The more I think about things like this the more I think it might be better to not teach kids social history at all. Regardless of what /pol/ might have to say on the subject, I think if black kids grew up never knowing their ancestors had been slaves and white kids grew up without the knowledge their ancestors kept black people as slaves there'd be a hell of a lot less unnecessary guilt, victim mentality and animosity all around.

>>90302761
>Because it was an inaccurate, and mean spirited portrayal of how the white man saw black people
Gaston is racist because it is mean spirited and implies that french people consume 5 dozen eggs every day

>>90308391
What kind of moron yells
>>get off the sidewalk thug
To someone who actually looks potentially violent?

I hate to point this out bro, but I think you look probably look like a teddy bear and people are trolling the shit out of you

>>90307616
>pointing out a racial stereotype is /co/mblr
4chan isn't your safe space

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>>90308421

>that mythical future day when /co/ doesn't take the bait

I be done seen about everything.

>>90302936
>This character was about as commonly laughed at as Yoda.
...but people DID laugh at Yoda! And the difference is Yoda wasn't representative of his entire race... I mean, he WAS, but it's a make-believe race, so who cares.

>>90302446
I now realize that at some point everything in the past is considered racist.
Morality is so incredibly subjective and people keep finding new shit to get offended by that anything that is ever done or said will eventually be perceived as prejudicial.
In 40 years people will be talking about how Steven Universe was blatantly racist cartoon from a less civilized age and copies of it will be prefaced with trigger warnings about how it's a product of it's times.

So with this in mind why give a shit?

>>90309271
Best post.

>>90309320
>everything is racist, so it doesn't matter
that's not really how it works

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After reading through the thread its very clear we should post this at the START of the next "is this racist?" thread

>>90304919
So was Bee movie offensive?
I mean it used bees to represent jews
>It was a movie about how the bees control all the world's h(m)oney

>>90309447
>people are always talking about how pesticides are going to wipe out the bees
Is this all some coded /pol/ plot I totally failed to pick up on?

>>90308362
>Thinks different race crimes are special
A crime is a crime the races of the people involved are irrelevant.

>>90309176
That's only feasible in a bubble both because outside people telling them and because there's obviously still a lot of existing issues stemming from our history and ignorance of our history won't fix any of that shit.
>>90309301
>Chinese people don't exist
Well I guess Americans were right.

>>90308421
>We see it and we know damn, that's a stereotype, but we're so used to it we accept it. But in 50 years people will be looking back at those characters in utter shock of our "ignorance" and people will say "That's what it was like back then".
Actually more likely they won't even be bothered by it because they won't understand the context that makes us think it's racist, they will see the crows in dumbo and just think "those are some funny talking crows", not associating it with black people at all.

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>>90308703
>You can't say that Snow White living with seven Dwarves is now an inappropriate movie because the animators used to draw nude Snow Whites in their spare time.

I'm on /co/. Of course I can't.

>>90309378
It does though.
If everything is racist and no matter what you do or how you try you will still be perceived as a racist what is the point in trying? The result will still be the same but you can at least save yourself some stress by not caring.
In the modern "everything is racist/sexist/homophobic/etc" age there is just no incentive to be accommodating since even if you manage to appease one person your attempt may just cause offense to another.
So fuck it, just live your life and know that can't please everyone, that doesn't mean you should try to be a dick but you can't allow the fear of causing offense to prevent you from being happy.

>>90309526
Zyklon B was a pesticide wasn't it?

>>90309529
>the races of the people involved are irrelevant.

Nice thought, but it matters to anyone who wants to use them to prove their beliefs.

>a black guy commited a crime, all black are thugs
>a white cop killed a black guy, racist pigs

>>90309663
If you agree that everything is considered racist, even if you don't particularly care, then you're still acknowledging that it's racist
You're not allowing the fear of causing offense to dictate your actions, sure, but ignoring offense simply because you know you're going to cause it no matter what you do makes you a dick
I'm not saying you have to cater to other people's feelings, but when asked if something is racist, why say "why give a shit" and not just "yeah, it is"

>>90302761
>Because it was an inaccurate, and mean spirited portrayal of how the white man saw black people.

How about you actually check up black produced media in the 40s before talking out your ass? Black stereotypes were fostered as much by both blacks and whites, they were part of the cultural identity of the era as much as countless white stereotypes

i love how everyone complains about the crows, but forget the part where exclusively back men are tasked with the manual labor of setting up the circus.

>>90309732
>If you agree that everything is considered racist, even if you don't particularly care, then you're still acknowledging that it's racist
I'm not though I'm saying that if we work under the assumption that everything is potentially racist, not that I actually agree it is.
>You're not allowing the fear of causing offense to dictate your actions, sure, but ignoring offense simply because you know you're going to cause it no matter what you do makes you a dick
Anything can cause offense, somebody may take my being alive offensive does that mean I need to kill myself to appease them? No there is obviously a line that needs to be drawn, and since what one person may consider politeness may be to what causes another person offense how do I deal with conflicts of interest? I cannot appease both people.
>I'm not saying you have to cater to other people's feelings
It sure sounds like you are.
>but when asked if something is racist why say "why give a shit" and not just "yeah, it is"
Not agreeing with me is racist

>>90310094
>Not agreeing with me is racist
But you already agree that it's racist

>I now realize that at some point everything in the past is considered racist.

>>90302716
But...why would you be upset over that? They were cool and everyone else thought so cause they helped Dumbo. I don't get it. Nothing awful happened to them, what's wrong with archetypes? Do you prefer characters like Spawn who're just white characters made black for the sole purpose of making them slightly different than similar character or lazy pandering raceswapping?

>>90302446
It was stereotyping but I wouldn't call it hateful. They weren't particularly bad, nor did they depict black people as bad.

WELL I'VE DONE SEEN 'BOUT EVERTING WHEN I SEE AN ELEPHANT FLY~

>>90310284
First off you are a racist because you are disagreeing with me, but I shall indulge you for the sake of open dialogue.
>I now realize that at some point everything in the past is considered racist.
That isn't me saying I agree that everything is racist that is me saying that I realize everything will eventually be seen as racist, not be me but by others.

> Complaining about the dumbo crows.
I thought they where pretty cool decent chariters even if they are based off of racist whatever-da-fucks back in the day.

> Not looking at fritz the cat who littarly dose the same thing but makes it MEGA FUCKING OBVIOUS.

>>90310677
Because Fritz is an obscure movie for adults, saying it's MEGA FUCKING OBVIOUS is an understatement since they're referred to as black people in the movie.

>>90303570
>Fun factoid: The part of King Louie the orangutang was originally going to be going to Louis Armstrong. But because they were worried about looking racist by casting a black guy as a monkey, they went with a white italian american musician instead.
The funny thing is you STILL get people who bitch and whine about them casting a 'black man' as the orangutan. It was in a cracked article awhile back for instance, back when I was still reading it for some fucking reason.

>>90303069
>Song of the South
>Racist


I love this lie

>>90304792
Don't forget that if it's made by the people themselves, in addition to all of that, it still doesn't matter. It's blatant ethnocentric bigotry.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8yGGtVKrD8

>>90308376
They were being progressive as fuck for their time.

>>90308416
Not a bad plan. But you can count on fuckheads calling the non-stereotypical minority an Uncle Tom.

>>90308587
Hold up. On a scale of 1 to Carlton, how bougie are you?

>>90303239
>Would it have been better if they were just a group of crows and nothing about them appeared black? Would erasing everything black about the situation be preferable to having a positive portrayal of black people?

In context, I think so. Crows were commonly portrayed as derisive images of blacks—that's why the Jim Crow laws got that name. In 1941, simply showing a crow as an African-American was its own kind of loaded image.

Ideally, we'd live in a world where sure, a crow could be African-American and no negative associations would result. Some optimists here argue we should act like we're in that world until it becomes a reality. But /pol/ wants to use those optimists as cover to be assholes, so who knows.

>>90308865
>>Kids today won't know the context and without it, the characters aren't offensive.
>This. But we shouldn't be surprised people are still being offended by it because this is what fucking SJWs are best at

Go back and read the rest of my post. You can't extract that one line of mine without reading the rest of my argument—and you sound as easily offended as the SJWs you complain about.

It amazes me how SJWs and redpill types are actually mirror images of each other. They live to be offended by the other guy, or offend them in response. It would be funny except they're at the point of hurting each other in real life.

>>90303072
The logic is that when it's the only representation you get it affirms that perception in the audience's minds.

Also it can get tired and lazy real quick.

ITT: /pol/ circlejerking

>>90308391
People stare at me and give me looks and I'm a big WHITE guy. I think people are a little bit intimidated when a guy walks by who could potentially beat the shit out of them at any moment, even if there's no chance that'll actually happen because the big guy is a civilized person like anybody else. It's understandable, if the fucking hulk walked by me on the street I'd be a little bit intimidated and I might give him a nervous or untrusting look as well.

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>>90302446
EVEN IF, even if it's racist, it shouldn't matter

What matters is that these cartoons remain uncensored, because let me tell you, many cartoons are being reedited, censored because it has racist, sexist, or whatever scenes that might trigger libtards. Fuck this makes me mad. Cutting art because it might offend some people.

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>>90302952
>https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43
Black people are 13% population
Cause about 50% of the crime

White amount 77% of population
Cause the other half of crime

That wasn't very hard anon can we get back to talking about cartoons now?

>>90312207
>It's covering up ancient naked statues all over again

>>90308703
>Nudes of Snow White
Pics or it didn't happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2SIeJ08A7M

When I was living at the homeless shelter, the old black guys who played dominos every day acted and talked exactly like those crows. They were always laughing and breaking into song. They were entertaining as fuck to be around. I assume that whoever came up with the crows also knew a bunch of people like that and thought they were charismatic enough to use as a basis for a bunch of characters.

Some black people just act like that. There's nothing racist about depicting black(-esque) characters who act like that. If you keep crossing off characterizations as racist, you end up with shit like "Black nerd" characters being everywhere because it's one of the few overblown personalities you can give to black people without being called racist.

>That time the guy who did all the voices for Song of the South was denied entry into the premiere of the movie

Why didn't Disney pull some strings and do something about that?

>>90313524
It's hysterical that the "black nerd" has become so overblown as it is

>"What kind of personality can we give a black person that won't be seen as racist?"
>"I KNOW, A SMART GUY!"

>>90313667
He was allowed to go to the premiere, it's just that he couldn't do anything else in the city including get a hotel room that would allow him to actually attend the premiere because they had the premiere in fucking georgia.

>>90302446
I don't think I actually care.

I love the Crows' song though.

>>90302446
I dunno about eveyone here, but I never thought of the crows as racist, and I thought they were cool. Like, eveyone else in the movie are kinda dorks, but that scene with those crows dancin and singing was basically the only reason I'd sit through that terrifying elephants on parade bit.

>>90303385
>>90303321
The Siamese cat scene isn't racist if it's true
t. Someone who has one

>>90302446
I never understood why minstrel shows were considered racist. back when it was actually black people who were doing them obviously. They just made use of commonly accepted stereotypes to give characters clearly defined roles in the plot. This sort of thing was the bread and butter of vaudeville at the time.

>>90302446
Didn't know those stereotypes as a child, so just saw crows, They're nice to Dumbo and teaches him to fly, not that bad imo.

>>90303152
>Tumblr
>nice

Please, actually do some reseach before you chat shit, Anon.

>>90302692
His name is Jumbo Jr. why did the movie title itself after the slur the bitchy female elephants gave him?

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Why would he agree to appear in such a fucking racist movie?

>>90315061
Because he turned that insulting name into a celebrity name.

It's not a slur, it's name mockery. Things kids do. It'd be like if Lady Gaga's origin was that her mother named her Gigi, some uppity bitches made fun of that name, and she went and took the name and turned it into a worldwide stage handle.

>>90303236
Putting aside they're changing what I thought was an (Indian) elf's race. There are black people with wide noses and lips.

>nigger-esque

You don't help by being a prick.

>>90314802
>>90303321

Lets compare:


Siamese cat song. This one is from Lady and the Tramp, as opposed to the aristocats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYqQs0R3w

Actual cats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwSYm1NPHP4

Actual music from siam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3JI3ocyKs

You know, the siamese cat song is a lot closer to actual siamese music than I expected. And the singer actually does sound sort of like the cat.

>>90315078
nigga got to be paid, no wha I'm sayyin?!

>>90309271
Maybe if this was pre-2011, but I think /co/ maybe too far gone.

>>90310677
No one is going to complain about an X-rated movie with incest and rape scenes having black animal stereotypes and saying nigger. Bakshi was also one of the only animation directors who hired black people at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKFuBOuxUgk
This video is suddenly incredibly relevant again.

>>90310709
Sad state if affair when you can't make any thread asking about representation, with triggering racists/sexists. I miss old /co/. Sigh.

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>>90315136
>If you say nigger in any context, you're a prick!
There is a difference between your black character has big lips and a big nose and giving your black character big lips and a big nose to "correctly portray black features". That's basically what artists used to do when they waned to draw "the negro character". The only way the edit could have been worse is if they added a protruded jaw and big red lips.

But the fact that they see a black character who DOESN'T have big lips and a big nose and they think, "That's wrong" is someone who actually stereotypes all black people are nothing but old timey nigger caricatures.

>>90315402
*of affairs **without

I don't think you can be racist towards birds.

Plus if they're offended by being compared to black people, doesn't that make them the racist ones?

>>90315326
Man, I love Fritz.

>>90315078
Probably thought it would be more progressive in nature, as the first black actor to participate in a live action Disney film?

>>90314997
I said nice to certain people. Not just blanket nice

>>90302888
>>90302862
>>90302812

AFTER a white-coded mouse told them.

So the implication is that black people are evil unless a white person tells them not to be

>>90303140

THIS

>>90308703
To be fair, nude studies are a part of the animating process. You animate the naked figure doing movement before you animate things that are secondary movement, like hair or flowing clothing.

>>90315691
It wasn't about black or white, it was about more fucking animals making fun of Dumbo for his big ears and Timothy consistently being the only one to stand up for him and tell his story so people realize the shit they're making fun of this elephant for is the reason why his life is hell and they're just kicking someone when they're down.

>>90315406
>If you say nigger in any context your prick!

Well, yeah, and don't even bring up when black people call themselves that word as terms of endearment. I have issues with that, but it's an "a", not a "hard r".

Black people's features come in a variety of nose and lip size shape, so people shouldn't jump to just posting a template. (Although, I don't feel you see the sort of features the artist depicted in animation very much.) What they did may annoy you, but it's really disingenuous to compare them to the left. It's no where near.

>>90315691
Kids who have no concept of black stereotypes don't see that though. They just see some crows who stop laughing at Dumbo when they're told his sad back story, then sing a nice song and help him.

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>>90303294
>>90303256
>>90303275
>>90303295
>>90303327

Love the lentghs conservatives go to justify the fact that they're associated with pretty much everything wrong in mankind from religious hypocrisy to environmental destruction.

Also, using "regressive" nonironically

>>90308782
I never understood the Jim Crow pun, and I never knew any black stereotypes until I moved to California. Made the mistake of offering to share some of my watermelon and fried with a classmate who happened to be african american.

At first he was offended, but I explained that this was part of my culture and up bringing to offer sharing food if someone showed interest in it, and that I was unaware of the racial stereotype of "Black people love fried chicken and watermelon". I also explained that I had a food pass at the theme park we were at and I could literally get more and as much of it as I wantes later if I wanted.

We became pretty good friends after that.

>>90315078
Never seen the movie, but why exactly is it considered racist, to such an extend that it never gets a release?

>>90315061
>>90315122
He's taking it back.

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Let's discuss Disney movies that aren't racist but thanks to heavy projecting will never be re-released in fear of backlash by ignorant jackasses who couldn't be bothered to watch the damn thing.

>>90315867
He gets lynched in graphic detail by the other cartoon characters at the very end.

>>90315941
Neat

>>90302512
How is this blaxploitation? If they were more generic would it be whitexplotation?

>>90315933
>Indians from Peter Pan
>Siamese Cats from Lady and the Tramp
>Crows from Dumbo
>All of Song of the South
>The centaurs in that Fantasia short I think it was

>>90302617
So what. That is just a historical reference.

Not sure how those crows are worse than any modern depiction of black people.

>>90316056
>No ethnicity in a movie besides mostly white people
>"Wow, fucking racist much?"
>An ethnicity in a movie is well represented
>"Wow, fucking racist much?"

>>90302446
So what exactly is wrong with them being stereotypes? Cartoons have lots of stereotypes. The rick, white, fat, evil guy, the sexy girl, the manly dude, etc. They all exist because such people exist in reality.
Did the crows do anything wrong? afaik they just help Dumbo and laugh a lot. I'd have a problem with them if they were criminals.

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>>90302837
>You really think racism is just... you know... over? Fuck off you privileged cunt. Yeah I said it.

/co/mblr, everyone. This is why we're a laughing stock to all the other boards.

>>90316143
>Only ethnicity is an offensive caricature

Please tell me you're not retarded enough to actually think that blackface is at least better than no black characters at all.

>>90315793
>using "regressive" nonironically
Well what would you call people who call themselves "liberal" yet have moved away from integration and equality of the races and genders and towards a hard separation of them from one another in the name of protecting those people? People who constantly attack whites and men just because that's their race and gender, no different to how racists and sexists attack blacks and women? There's no discernible fucking difference any more in the language or the attitude of the far left and far right. The only difference is who the targets of their hate are.

>>90316056
>Siamese Cats from Lady and the Tramp

How the fuck are these racist?

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>>90316281
They're bucked teeth Asian cats. What cat has bucked teeth? They clearly added that because they were "Siamese" cats.

>>90316281
Because they're not white, see?
And because their main personality is being Siamese. You're supposed to flesh out every fucking little character to the point that you forget they have a culture. God forbid you realize at any point that they are not "normal".

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>>90316249
>There's no discernible fucking difference any more in the language or the attitude of the far left and far right.
You don't say?

>>90316320
>I have no knowledge of stereotypes throughout the ages, therefore it was not one!

kys

>>90302446
Racist stereotypes are still in the media, they're just changed slightly so we don't recognize them.

>>90316307
>What cat has bucked teeth?
Wow excuse fucking you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tp-ObBLWFo
>>90316337
And again, why is the stereotype bad? They're not shown in a negative light. Why aren't you complaining about every American stereotype in movies? Oh wait I know that one, it's because you're white and think that's just how society is.

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>>90307102
>tfw cajun

Not bothered by Ray desu