Was she a Mary Sue?

Literally every single major character in ATLA was to some extent. It's one of the major writing issues in that series.

Still beats LOK by a country mile though

Mary Sue is a meaningless term, so sure.

>Had to be talked down by Zuko
>Had to admit she was mean to Toph

No.

A mary sue is defined by other characters having unrealistic double standards towards the character in question, and contrived situations retroactively justifying the character's actions.

>>90263255
Thanks, prof.

>>90263153
Nah, she had some pretty severe flaws, and even though she developed as a character, she wasn't perfect by the end either.

Or rather, she had some pretty severe flaws that were not excused by the narrative and that she had to confront unlike another Bryke female lead I could mention

>>90263153
I don't think so? I mean, she was at times annoyingly perfect, and even her flaws weren't flaws that made her less "cool". But her impact in the story was negligible compared with her companions, the positive characteristics of other characters greatly outshined her on a regular basis, and both of those things seemed to be done purposefully.

The meaning of "mary-sue" is kind of undefined and polluted, but she doesn't truly feel like one to me. I suppose she would have been if she'd occupied a different place in the show.

"you didn't love her like I did"

>>90263661
But that's presented as a major character flaw.

Less of a mary sue than Korra.

A Mary Sue would be considered fun by the rest of characters even if she wasn't funny to the audience.

eh. she kinda started off as a shitty waterbender. if she were a mary sue, her progression as a waterbender would have been more like aang's was

>>90263726
But Korra was constantly getting shat on.

>>90263754
Given that she actually learned faster than the AVATAR himself... uh, no, that's exactly what you'd expect from a Mary Sue.

>>90263153
If you cherry pick certain episodes, especially in the first season, where she is essentially the gang's mom, then you can make her look like one, but she was really not even close to being a Mary Sue if you look at her character as a whole. For example in season 1, the pirate episode is essentially about her jealousy that Aang is a better water-bender than she is. She even goes as far as to put the group in danger by stealing a scroll from the pirates, and has to admit that mistake after it nearly gets them all killed. The fact is she is used to being the mature/competent one, and time and time again when she is put in scenarios where she is made the fool or treated like a child she quickly becomes rash and short-tempered.

>>90263787
"Getting shat on" != character development
Too bad Bryke missed that

>>90263255
>This

Really, the 'closest' to a Mary Sue I can figure in ATLA is fucking Sokka and Toph.

Sokka is comic relief, but he does come through as a force of his own towards the end. I cannot recall any major issues he personally had. I don't recall any majore character flaws he overcame. He was an unchanging character that seemed to have flaws for the sole purpose of being comedy. Due to that, that leans him towards "Mary Sue"

Toph
>Closest to the perfect example of a Mary Sue. Having a major weakness yet is not hampered by it at all. "I'm blind, but that's okay I can see!" Though this is also easily fixed by the one episode where everyone in the Earth Kingdom is doing their own thing, and she gets fucked over due to her blindness. There was also her feet getting burnt, actually causing her severe issues.

She's more of a Lisa Simpson character.

It's Korra that's the Rey of Avatar

>>90263754
>>90263791
I mean, in the first season there is a whole episode where she gets angry about Aang learning how to waterbend faster than she did (same one I talk about here >>90263818 ) As the series goes on, though, Aang has to split his attention between mastering 3 different elements while still maintaining his skill in the fourth, all in the span of a year. Katara meanwhile just studies one element, and even then in all the scenarios where she is up against more experianced water benders she gets her ass kicked. And while on a technical level Aang isn't really as good as her, in terms of raw power he is clearly way beyond her level due to his status as the Avatar.

>>90263153
not when she was forced to blood bend

>>90263961
But Korra constantly loses

>>90263983
Sigh... that's not the case at all. Like, at all.

Aang only started learning Earth AFTER Katara was deemed a master (in the Book 2 premiere). The only time he'd tried either of the other elements by then was that one early firebending episode.

It's just poor writing, but then no show is perfect.

>>90263961
Korra gets fucked up all the time. She's not a mary sue, just a garbage character.

>>90264043
True, I forgot about the first episode of season 2. Still, by the time this happens she has had some character development, and its not too much of a big deal because her skills as a bender don't overstep Aang too much (as far as I remember, by the end of the series while he still struggled with earth and fire he basically had water mastered).

>>90263745
This guy gets it
She was overbearing and self-righteous while not being nearly as wise as she thought she was for much of the series, and the other characters were completely aware of it.

>>90264360
>other characters were completely aware of it
Did we watch the same show anon?

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>>90263745
>Short
>Concise
>Spot-on

>>90263153
I don't give one single fuck post r34

>>90263992
>>90263787
But then she always wins in the end via some asspull that doesn't require her to actually confront and try to fix her flaws.

>>90264690
>I didn't watch the show, I only read what spergs on /co/ told me.

>>90264788
Name one character flaw Korra overcame

>>90264887
She used to be straight.

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>>90265123

>>90263956
>I cannot recall any major issues he personally had. I don't recall any majore character flaws he overcame.
He was sexist in the first two episodes and then he got his ass beat by Suki and realized grils can be strong independent womyn that dont need no men
His girlfriend became the moon and it effected his relationship with Suki later but he learned to let go of Yue
He went through that phase where he thought he was useless and became good at swordfighting
He killed Combustion Man
He realized he needed to stop trying to be his dad and follow his own path
Honestly Sokka was a pretty good character.
Still not as good as Zuko though

Also reminder that Varrick is the best character in the avatar universe

>>90265726
Varrick is a reddit character.

>>90265769
This is a reddit post

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>>90265726
>varick over Iroh

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>>90265726
Fuck I forgot about all that.

Nevermind!


Shit tier taste though, picking Varrick over Iroh

>>90263153
Nah in ATLA the Mary Sue was
no one
In the Korra the Mary Sue was Suiyin, I mean its in the fucking name.

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>>90265822
>>90265868
Iroh is shit

No but seriously Iroh is fantastic and all but Varrick's villainous chairspin makes me smile every time and Iroh just constantly reminds me that Mako is kill

>>90263754
You mean how like Korra was introduced as an earth/fire/water vender instantly at five years old with no prior training?

>>90266058
Really? I guess that's fair enough. Personally it actually makes me feel better. Knowing that someones passing was felt so keenly by so many and their work is remembered so fondly even now I find quite heartwarming, which somehow makes Iroh better for me.

>>90263153
No, she was just talented. She wasn't unstoppable and had plenty of real character flaws.

>>90263255

No. No, that's dumb.

>>90263153
Was she a do no wrong author insert? No? Then no she wasn't.

>>90263255
This, but the character also has to be a blatant author insert. A Mary Sue is a power fantasy, where the author mouthpiece is always right, is perfect in every way and can never ever fail, except when the failure will lead to greater success in the future. If and when they have a "flaw", they usually quickly write in some way to make it an advantage, or make it so negligible that it might as well not exist, or outright forget about it when it becomes inconvenient.

>>90263153
No.

>>90263590
I mean, didn't she have to learn to deal with being humbled while teaching Aang waterbending?

>>90268181
Only the first time before officially becoming his teacher. They're both powerful benders and fast learners, but only Gyatso knew how to motivate Aang properly while Katara didn't need any.

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Gonna post some Kataras.

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man I miss ATLA era /co/

>>90268478
Huh, I never noticed how much her face changed over the series.

>>90263153
Katara is not particularly exciting character. Her greatest problem is that she often holds Team Avatar back from its primary mission of stopping the Fire Nation for her own selfish (disguised as selfless) reasons. Disgusted by the chauvinist culture of the Northern Water Tribe? Let's risk the Avatar's chance at learning a critical ability by throwing a hissy fit. Impoverished community is starving? Fuck planning for the eclipse that is coming within a month, I gotta dress up as a ghost & clean up a lake.

>>90268509
>tfw wasn't around to partake in those threads
Feels bad man

>>90268478
Katara a cute
CUTE

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>>90271821
Yes

>>90263661
>Being an outstanding cunt on SEVERAL occasions
>Other characters not expecting better of her OR ignoring her "because she doesn't know better"
>Treated more like a prize than a warrior, which she was on several occasions, but still somehow was not expected to be better
If anything, this is kind of anti-mary sure. Ignore a character for being bitchy, give literally the next girl on the team better character moments.

>>90264433
He said aware of it; he didn't say they tried to change her. "Katara is being a self-righteous bitch again."
>"Oh, okay. Guess we're doing this for about two days... Wanna go gamble?"
"Yeah!"

She's an AIDS bender.

>>90268478
>Katara's boobs got bigger as the months went by
Nice.

>>90268650
Same. I would just write it off as "increase in budget", but there are some noticeable intentional changes as well.

>>90266058
>Varrick's villainous chairspin

Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite scenes in LoK

somehow varrick managed to be great despite debuting in the absolute worst season

Has /co/ a different definition of "Mary Sue"?
>"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities."
>"An implausibly flawless character and/or an idealized stand-in for the author."
According to these two definitions no major characters is a Mary Sue.

>>90263153

Insufferably so.

best outfit?
i say season 2

>>90277316
Season 1

>>90277316
>>90279793
Season 3.

You know, it feels like in recent times people toss around the term Mary Sue like a goddamn hackey sack. I get these phrases adapt ovet time, but let's not lsr the sense of the meaning here.

We all know where Mary Sue comes from right? The Star Trek fanfic. Where Mary Sue did everything perfectly. EVERYTHING. Everyone loved her or was even in love with her. So you could say the Mary Sue is the author's favorite character, because nothing they do seems to have any consequence.

Now let's look at Katara. Bitch made many mistakes. She even put the gang's life in danger because of pirates. She did not always have the right answer to solve anyone's problems. But she was nice, and also works to redeem herself. Just because she didn't put on the fucking symbiote suit and shit on people's heads from the empire state doesn't make her flawless, much less a Mary Sue.

So no. No she wasn't.

>>90263153
Not every annoying cunt is a mary sue.

>>90268509
>would have be funnier if it said "never saw"

>>90263153
She had character flaws. She sucked at bending. She was jealous of Aang's abilities. She would lie to to save face. She learned lessons in the show and was developed over time. She was not a marry sue.

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>>90263198
Aang:
- people constantly point out his bullshit
- gets BTFO every now and then
- tries to surprass his limitations and find creative solutions

Katara
- bending is literally the only thing she has going on for her, and she is not even good at that
- shit personality, shit decisions, no one likes her

Toph
- has clear limitations and weaknesses
- can easily be defeated by exploiting her lack of vision
- people call on her shit when she fucks up

Azula
- crazy

Zuko/Sokka/others
- kek

>>90263153
>>90263234
Not exactly.

>>90263726
>>90263787
>>90264690
Korra was flawed but when she became lesbian it was like a way to make her inmune to critics. Asami could be the Mary Sue.

Early Drill Sgt. Toph could also be the Mary Sue.

>>90263956
Sokka had to grow up. He realized over the course of the series that being a dumb fucking kid who just wants to fight is retarded, and that thinking things through and leading people properly is more important than being a great warrior yourself.

>>90263726
Korra isn't even closely a Mary Sue.

>>90266058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErmZRsCIUsE I still cry every fucking time I watch this shit. It is so god damn emotional and makes you understand why he needs zuko so badly. I love Iroh and will always see him as my favorite character in AtLA

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>>90280551
10,000 hours in MS Paint

>>90280657
>people constantly point out his bullshit
what am I reading
>gets BTFO every now and then
doesn't change Mary Sue status
>tries to surpass his limitations and find creative solutions
not even related to Mary Sue status

>bending is literally the only thing she has going on for her, and she is not even good at that
WHAT AM I FUCKING READING
>shit personality, shit decisions, no one likes her
see previous

>has clear limitations and weaknesses
very few, and one of which is randomly thrown away in the finale with no payoff whatsoever
>can easily be defeated by exploiting her lack of vision
>easily
>people call on her shit when she fucks up
like when, man? WHEN?

>crazy
again, no bearing whatsoever on Mary Sueness

>Zuko
has a single "training session" with the dragons
suddenly better than Azula herself

>Sokka
has girls falling into his lap all the time
I mean, he's probably the least Sueish of them when you think about it, but still

>kek
you funny man, real funny

>>90280788
I'm sadder about Mako himself dying.

>>90280892
>i don't have an argument for any of it so i'll just say no
epic argumentative skills brah

>>90280910
Who?

>>90280976
You dismissed essentially every part of the post with "what am i reading" or "not mary sue".
You're a fucking lazy shit.

>>90280996
Iroh's original VA, the guy they dedicated Iroh's segment of the episode to.
He's also the reason why Mako from Korra is named Mako.

>>90281051
Oh, I thought you meant the character from Korra and I decided to make a joke... Ya, when his voice actor died I was pretty sad too. The new guy couldn't pull it off as well.

>>90281104
>The new guy couldn't pull it off as well.
I think he did a fantastic job, all things considered, but it's hard to compare to someone with such a large amount of experience in the field.

Speaking of Mako, any chance you've watched any of the new Samurai Jack?
How's the new VA for Aku?

>>90281051
OK then, as you want:
>people constantly point out his bullshit
examples needed

>bending is literally the only thing she has going on for her, and she is not even good at that
SHE LITERALLY BECOMES A WATERBENDING MASTER BEFORE THE AVATAR HIMSELF DOES

>shit personality, shit decisions, no one likes her
We're talking in-universe here, nobody in-universe thinks she has a "shit personality", and almost never calls her out on "shit decisions" (other than in that otherwise terrible episode "The Painted Lady"), and "no one likes her" is literally disproven by KatAang alone

now I expect detailed responses to both this and my previous post, or you're a hypocrite

>>90281458
I like you didn't bother with everything from the older post, just a few you thought you'd get away with.

By the by, not even the guy you were "arguing" with. I'm just sick of seeing slack cunts going "no u" like it's a solid argument. Props for the little effort you eventually put in, though.

>>90281496
I only took up the points that I DIDN'T ALREADY ADDRESS, nice try weaseling your way out of the argument tho

>>90281527
No, you really didn't, especially seeing as how you have no grasp on what a Mary Sue actually is.

All caps doesn't make you seem smarter.
Still not the original guy.

>>90280657
You have a weird way of pointing out character flaws.

All the characters are mary sues because they overcome impossible challenges which no one that age would even think of, or anyone at any age.
>Sometimes I forget what a powerful bender that kid is.
Sadly Aang is very uneducated in most of the bending arts, to the point that instead of facing the fire lord on time, they all decided to postpone it.

>>90281569
I'm using the common definition that's used here and on TVT, not whatever definition you dug up on Urban Dictionary or wherever.

All caps doesn't make me seem smarter, but it does make me seem like I'm yelling at you, which is exactly what this level of stupidity gets.

Also, if you think I believe you aren't the other anon...

>>90281635
>TVT
Confirmed retard.
Thanks for playing.

>>90263153
Only in the begining, but she turned into one of the iconic party members. Do you not remember when she was fighting for the last time and she went into ice, and moved through the ice by once again water bending.

Korra doesn't even like water bending. She straight up uses fire bending at the very begining. And she hardly uses water bending afterwords.

And she didn't turn insta-lesbian after having boy problems.

>>90280892
>what am I reading
- stop slacking off and go master the avatar state, you dingus
- grow the fuck up, there is a war going on
- no man, your people are just dead

>doesn't change Mary Sue status
yes, it does

>not even related to Mary Sue status
explain your concept of mary sue

>WHAT AM I FUCKING READING
even after becoming a """master" she got BTFO every now and then, winning sometimes out of convenience or against the element she is strong against.

>see previous
It's not like everyone thought she was boring, right? it's not like they even had an episode for that.

>very few, and one of which is randomly thrown away in the finale with no payoff whatsoever
first of, being blind is a very big limitation that is brought even on the last season; remember when Zuko burns her feet? she can be easily dealt with by anyone that prepared beforehand to deal with her. Also, it wasn't 'thrown away' in the finale; she only did something because Sokka was with her giving directions.

>like when, man
The Chase episode, she literally wants out because of that. The Appa thing as well. The cheating episode.

>again, no bearing whatsoever on Mary Sueness
crazy people cannot be mary sue, anon. They can barely think straight. Sufice to say that she got abandoned by everyone. A mary sue's trait is to be well-liked by everyone.

>better than Azula herself
because of that fight he lost? also, are you REALLY saying Zuko is a mary sue?
Zuko? seriously, explain.

>Sokka is mary sue
yeah, you don't know what that word means.

>>90281631
>All the characters are mary sues because they overcome impossible challenges which no one that age would even think of, or anyone at any age
1- that would imply 'genius' type characters are mary sue, which is not true
2- most people on that world don't have a master; and it is literally said that they let anyone join the fire nation army. Even being kids, having a master means they can easily beat grown ups without training. When they did came against people with training, most of the time they lost, or had a hard time (like the dai li, where they actually lost).
3- they never "overcame impossible challenges". Actually, they LOST when things got impossible (day of the black Sun; crossroads; Aang losing to the archers, etc). The only reason they even won the last fight was because Ozai wanted to 1v1 the Avatar instead of sending his army, and because Toph invented metalbending.

>>90280892
How can a Mary Sue get BTFO?

>>90282461
Crazy people can absolutely be Mary Sues, read any creepypasta ever and you'll know that for a fact.

>>90282461
>one of which is randomly thrown away in the finale with no payoff whatsoever
This was obviously referring to the sandbending.

>>90280788
the one that always gets me is when Zuko and Iroh reunite. He's just bawling and begging and Iroh just latches onto him without a word and hugs the shit out of him.

>>90282461
>because of that fight he lost?
Zuko didn't lose a fight to Azula after that point.
Of their two one-on-one fights from then on, the first one (on the airships) was an obvious draw, and Azula lost the Agni Kai by cheating.
There was also the Boiling Rock confrontation, but that wasn't one-on-one, and Azula was on the losing side anyways.

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>>90282734
>Everyone hates her and she has only extortion to get her way.
>Her diconnected behavior is a clear detriment to her judgement.
>Her only definite positives are just another way she can harm people.
>The people you could even consider her friends don't want anything to do with her out of fear of "Disappearing" for just disagreeing with her.

Face it she lacks any sort of empathy for others and is an absolute psychopath. Implying she's a mary sue would be claiming she's the "Lol XD randumb!" kind if snowflake crazy. Not the debilitating illness kind.

>>90263224
TUMBLRITE..Just because you don't have any idea the term doesn't lose meaning

>>90264433


>Katara: Relax Aang. They're not acurate protrayals. It's not like I'm a preachy crybaby who can't resist giving over-emotional speeches about hope all the time.

>[Everyone stares at Katara]

>Katara: What?

>Aang: (sarcastically) Yeah, that's not you at all.

>>90283497
Except that was like the only time it was referenced - and it was a joke.

>>90280657
>Azula and Spider-Man

What is this?

>>90280858
thanks

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>>90280892
>Better than Azula
>Gets shit kicked in even when Azula was mentally unstable during the fight

>>90283929
Rewatch it, Zuko had much better fire for much less effort

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>>90280788
What is it with characters whose voice actors die during the show (well in this guys case he died several months after he had finished his last line on this show but still).

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>>90268509

>>90280910
>>90281051
>It's been 11 years since Mako died

>>90263153

Well, she was something. But young women watch children cartoons too, anon. Avatar had something for everybody.

>even weird feet people with just a bit of a disability thing
>all kinds, bless them.

>>90263153
Yes.

>>90280657
>Azula
>- crazy

Wrong

>>90280892

Azula is complex and if you can't see that you're retarded.

>>90283929

She had a breakdown that's all.

I can't believe it's gotten to the point where Mary Sue just means "Female character I don't like"

>>90287045
>Azula is complex and if you can't see that you're retarded.
or Autistic... or a Sith.
Siths deal in absolutes.

>>90287087
>or Autistic... or a Sith.

She was conditioned to be a weapon and is actively trying to reverse that conditioning.

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Just watched the movie, ask me anything

>>90287769
Why do you hate yourself so?

>>90287130
no no no, I was talking about >>90280892

>>90287807
Because I remembered you can borrow movies from the library, it has been my goal since then to watch every movie, no matter how bad it is.

>>90287068

I don't think I was born yet when that happened.

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>>90263153

No, Katara was a strong independent woman done right. A feminist icon.

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>>90288420
How is that different from a Mary Sue?

>>90288420
CUTE

>>90268509
All I want to know is the reaction when the beach episode aired

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>>90277316

>>90291774
It's hilarious how much better these makeup designs are than the ones in the NEXT episode. You'd think it would be the other way around, if anything.

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>>90277316
S3 my man

>>90281635
>TV Tropes

>>>/tumblr/

>>90291818
I guess their natural appearances aren't compatible with makeup

>>90292113
Average TVT is so much better than average Tumblr it's not even funny.
Tumblr does have some pure gold metas, though.

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>>90292142
That... doesn't even remotely address what I said.

>>90283929
>Gets shit kicked in even when Azula was mentally unstable during the fight

no? the only reason Azula 'won' is because she tried to cheap shot Katara. if the fight continued then Azula would have lost from exhausting herself.

>>90292555

Bullshit she would mop the floor with Katara.

>>90292653
>if [her fight with Zuko] would have continued then Azula would have lost from exhausting herself.

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>>90292653
>what is Crossroads of Destiny

In what way was she a self insert?

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Reminder

>>90292973

What is eyes on the prize?

>>90293033
This is quite possibly the worst ATLA comic I've ever seen in terms of the dialogue. The art is extremely good though, looks like the show.
what is the source anon

>>90293119
excuses

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She could have been better designed. Here's how

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>>90293033
>yfw Aang is tapping that hot brown water tribe pussy every night while Zuko is stuck with an manipulative, shriveled bitch

>>90293275
I don't know who made it. The name is on the bottom right, though. And yeah, the artist has a great grasp on the characters in terms of illustrating them. Too bad it's wasted on cancerous shipping.

>>90293788
While this is top kek, the reality is that Zuko not only likes Mai, but never expressed a romantic interest in any other girl in the show (his fling with Jin was obviously half-hearted on his part).

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>>90265123

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all the major characters were unusually talented people but they still had flaws. They werent mary sues but maybe they didnt have enough flaws to feel believable or likable for some people
still pretty hot though

>>90293430
kek

>>90282791
She still can't sense shit in the sand. She never had trouble controlling sand itself, she just couldn't 'see' shit. That said, the 'castle made of sand' thing doesn't really have much aplication.

>>90282954
>Azula lost the Agni Kai by cheating
what?
where in the rules it is said that was cheating?

>Azula was on the losing side anyways
i think you're confusing losing objective with losing a fight.

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>>90265769

>>90295350
It was pretty heavily implied that she could see what she had just built with such fine detail.
>>90295410
We weren't provided a rulebook in the show, but it's pretty clear both from a traditional honour *cough* perspective and how everyone reacts on the show that it was blatant cheating.

Also, I meant she was on the losing side to the extent that anyone could be deemed to have lost that fight.

>>90276811

No, not at all.

>>90295410
>where in the rules it is said that was cheating?

If, in a one-on-one honor duel, you decide to try and murder an onlooker, hoping that your opponent will die attempting to save them, I'm pretty sure that means 1) You're cheating, and 2) You've already lost. When Zuko sacrificed himself for Katara, that completed his Hero's Journey, and my beloved Azula lost completely, to the point that she was then physically and psychologically beaten like a red-headed stepchild by a water-rat. A PEASANT. A FUCKING SAVAGE.

>>90263255
It's also defined by the character not having any relevant flaws, or at the very least, things they aren't good at.

If a character can't play any instruments when they're on an action show, it doesn't matter.
If a character can't play any instruments when they're trying to connect to their distant father, a renowned musician, and face hardship because of it, then they aren't a Mary Sue.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be a flaw, just some kind of weakpoint, like Achilles, his "weakness" was that he was just mostly invincible, and that sure as hell didn't keep him alive.

>>90283598

Fancomic -- Azula and GAang are in the Marvel Universe where she's divorced from Doom and they have a daughter named Cynthia.

>>90296878
Even a character that has no deliberate flaws will still be flawed in some way. The only way a character can be "perfect" is under the conditions I mentioned.

Floozy

>>90296972
You just won this thread.

>>90293430

I remember pissing off people by posting that on Avatarspirit.

>tfw used to ship Azulaang

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>>90297052
pretty fun crackship desu, i used to be a forum regular on kataang forever before atla ended
im glad i got permad from there lol

also
BRAVO BRYKE
R
A
V
O

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Her only flaw is that she didn't get with Zuko in the end.

>>90295971
>pretty heavily implied
good word for headcanon.

>how everyone reacts on the show
by 'everyone' you mean 'zuko'. It doesn't mean shit, really.

>>90297142
Well, it's pretty much required to understand how she's doing it in the first place. I'd say even "heavily implied" is understating it.

And by "everyone reacts" I meant the people of the Fire Nation in general. The Fire Sages did crown Zuko, and seemingly without opposition.

>>90297052

Because I'm not retarded.

>>90263961
Rey don't got big titties tho

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>>90297092
REEEEE

LEAVE

LEAAAAAAAVE

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>>90297827
Nah, I'm good.

>>90297431
>The Fire Sages did crown Zuko, and seemingly without opposition
because the opposition was in jail

also, as for the comics, there was opposition.

>>90298226
>katara's face
QUALITY

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>according to /co/ master minds, korra simultaneously manages to be both an incompetent useless bitch AND a mary-sue

>>90300521
She is an incompetent useless bitch. While not technically a mary sue, the show doesn't hold her accountable for her multiple fuck ups and character flaws, that's why people call her one.

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>>90300586
>the show doesn't hold her accountable for her multiple fuck ups and character flaws

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>>90297092
>Zutarians still exist

>>90300647
That is a good example of when it did, hence why the season 3 finale was the only one that didn't suck balls.

>>90300521
Mary Sue's can be entertaining depending on the material and how they interact with the world. Korra is not entertaining, neither her nor her show.

>>90300586
>While not technically a mary sue

or in any sense

>>90300647
>relies on others
>gets let down
Season 3 had her suffer for the sake of suffering and not from a direct action. She didn't learn anything from season 3's finale to better herself as evident in season 4. All four seasons were terrible but three "works" because of how people who watched could laugh at Korra and how she couldn't shake this off like Aang.

>>90300685
I went into this in another thread but whatever. Not having to overcome character flaws in order to 'save the day' is a key hallmark of a mary sue.

>>90300899
An immense part of the series is overcoming her character flaws (i.e. recklessness, lack of spiritual connection, self-identity) in order to save the day...

I have a feeling people haven't actually watched Korra. Shit could be pretty bad (fucking Dark Avatar) but Korra herself changed immensely from start to finish. Way more than Aang.

>>90300899
>season 1: can't approach things from a different angle/needs to approach things from a different angle
>goes and listens to Tarrlok instead of ignore him, uses what he tells her to push Amon's metaphorical buttons having him pursue her along with his lieutenant resulting in a series of events that undoes Amon
>season 2: needs to be more spiritual and change her mindset
>meditates and uses the energy around her to help save the day
>season 3: she had a goal and hell not every season needs to add another flaw to someone
>season 4: needs to move past what happened to allow healing
>does so

>>90300521
It can happen.

>>90300952
>>90301033
Any 'change' she goes through is extremely superficial.
>can't approach things from a different angle
Not immediately attacking someone is not good progression. And she's still a raging bitch at the beginning of season two.
> needs to be more spiritual and change her mindset
Yes, but we never see her become a more spiritual person. We're just expected to believe that she is at the end.
>needs to move past what happened to allow healing
That 'growth' is strictly tied to her antagonists. When does she actually grow of her own volition as a person?

>>90301446
>When does she actually grow of her own volition as a person?
When she willingly pulls the poison out and goes to confront Zaheer.
>>90301446
>but we never see her become a more spiritual person. We're just expected to believe that she is at the end.
Tenzin still can't meditate into the spirit world. Korra is able to.
>>90301446
>Not immediately attacking someone is not good progression. And she's still a raging bitch at the beginning of season two.
Not necessarily attacking, but she heard him out and had sympathy for him. Also season 2 had everyone, literally all the adults in her life, lie to her since she was like four years old about her upbringing and none of them, bar Unalaq, could show results in getting things done.

What the fuck is a "sugar queen"?

>>90301737
>When she willingly pulls the poison out and goes to confront Zaheer.
Great example. Probably my favourite scene in the whole series, but examples like this are few and far between. It is tied directly to the antagonist, but I'll give you it.

>Tenzin still can't meditate into the spirit world. Korra is able to.
Yeah, but we're not given a good reason why Korra is able to. She has trouble connecting to her spiritual side in the beginning, and at least for me, she doesn't grow enough spiritually to justify why she is suddenly able to in the end.

She was still REALLY bad in season 2. Spazzing out at Mako and Raiko for no good reason. It didn't sit well with me.

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>>90300661
And proudly. They probably got together in the end anyway.

Korra isn't canon

>>90300899
>Not having to overcome character flaws in order to 'save the day' is a key hallmark of a mary sue.

Stop making shit up. It is not.

>>90303466
"She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing."
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

The term mary sue is pretty damn vague as it is, but I'd say this trait is consistently true.

>>90302893
whore i imagine

>>90264043
Don't forget that Katara took on a lifetime master with no formal training and was so good she beat the sexism out of him.

>>90293430
Delicious brown is better

>>90268478
>Katara someone gained three cup sizes in season 3
I see Aang has good taste.

>>90303759
It makes sense.

>>90303670
>tvtropes

>>90303796
she got her ass kicked and was saved by gran grans necklace tho

>>90287045
Fuck off man. You're that crazy Azula lover.

>>90303856
he's a treasure let him be

>>90303856
Yeah, that's Scrapper.
Just ignore him, anon.

>>90303836
I'm not even saying she is one, but it's obvious that the flaws of a mary sue are irrelevant to the plot. This is just common sense here.

>>90263153
What makes Korra a mary sue is the fact that despite constantly fucking up, the show somehow acts like she doesn't and just heaps "SUFFERING" on her to get the audience to have pathos.

She's a terrible avatar and at the end we're still supposed to find her inspiring.

>In This Thread: Anyone who's sufficiently talented is a Mary Sue

Nobody in The Last Airbender is much of a Mary Sue because they all have actual flaws. Seriously, I wouldn't even put Korra into the Mary Sue status. She's terrible for a load of reasons, but a Mary Sue?
She's hated by a shit ton of people throughout parts of the series, constantly gets shat on by her opponents, has character flaws that severely hinder her ability to be a functional fighter, and has consequences to her actions constantly thrown back in her face.

Any "special power" status is derived entirely from her being The Avatar.

I mean, no one in Avatar is a Mary Sue because the terms exists to describe bad wish fulfillment characters in fanfiction. And since none of Avatar is fanfiction... Yeah.

But as lots of people pointed out, even if you extend the definition past the context it is originally created for, all of Avatar's major characters have important character flaws. Which disqualifies them again.

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was she a mary sue?

>>90283496
Next thing you're gonna tell us that OP used it term in a meaningful way.

>>90303193
>It is tied directly to the antagonist, but I'll give you it.
Wouldn't Aang's decision to stand up to the antagonist rather than do, as King Bumi, airbender tactics of run away, also be tied to the antagonist? A character, especially a protagonist in an action/adventure show, responds to opposing forces.

>>90303193
>She was still REALLY bad in season 2. Spazzing out at Mako and Raiko for no good reason. It didn't sit well with me.
Mako tells Raiko what is going to happen then later hops on and directly interferes like how Korra was asking people to do. And Raiko didn't want to get involved and choose a side yet he accepted funds from Varrick and then later had a blockade setup despite saying that nothing was going to happen.
Korra was trying to get help like how Aang was against the Fire Nation but her own close circle were saying "no" and giving no substantial reason nor alternative.

>people actually think Korra is a Mary Sue

>>90280858
THX!!!

>>90308135
Fuck off, tripfag.

>>90288420
Toph was that too.