Drawing good cartoon principles is not a style

>>90160358
Gotta have the fundamentals down first before you start trying to copy a style.

>>90160358
I dislike John and his style greatly but I think he genuinely wants people to learn from his idols and not his own work.

>>90160358
John had a good philosophy of demanding his animators not repeat the same expression of a character twice, forcing them to find new ways to make a character emote an emotion. The problem I've heard many people have with him is that he takes all of the looseness of Bugs Bunny without any structure being added to it. It's impossible to go off-model when there is no on-model, so it's like saying you're a winner in a jumping contest by walking over a chalk line on the ground.

>>90160358
here's the full post
http://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2007/04/cal-arts-1-apology-to-students.html

John K used to write some pretty interesting and informative posts. A lot of what he wrote on his blog during this time was inspiring to me when I was learning to draw.

>>90160617
>he takes all of the looseness of Bugs Bunny

What did he mean by this?

>>90160713
This isn't /tv/ fuckwit

>>90160713
You need to leave.

>>90160358
What is he trying to say? That I should focus on drawing from real life first?

>>90160771
No. Real life drawings are good, but first you have to learn 3D fundamentals ("solid drawing" as it was known in the 30s through 50s) so you can draw anything.

>>90160771
He's saying you should find someone who isn't a senile autist to teach you shit

>>90160358
>it's a John K pretends he doesn't have an identifiable style, he doesn't know what you're talking about, he just draws like Bob Clampett, Tex Avery, definitely not Chuck Jones though, you know the greats! episode

>>90160822
as apposed to drawing from free hand? Is free hand bad? Will it give me the same benefits as solid drawings?

>Its not what I like so its shit

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He's telling you to stop copying his damn style and to make something unique of your own from a combination of influences. Here's an example of someone copying john k style and flat out denying it by saying it's his own unique style:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k7G7oW17y8

>>90160898
No, the issue is that going further than John K. means you're entering arbitrarily abstract drawing territory. There's a crisis among artists because the vast majority of people going to popular art schools are living on their parents' dole, and they don't really care about learning art as culture. They want to express themselves and do fucked-up anti-social projects like taking pictures of their vaginas or using recyclable trash to construct models of dinosaurs. They don't care about form, or structure, or perspective, and this isn't anything new.

Directors of art schools are in a panic because the old art forms are being lost, because the only ones who mastered proper anatomy are dead, dying, or, if they're middle-aged, aren't getting nearly enough students to support the paycheck they deserve, because once again students don't attend art school to learn art. So we have this "CalArts" meme, so we have people calling John K. a god, so we have people using 50s over-exaggerated poses, so we have CGI and Flash and gaudy, over-designed characters with the character depth of a bird bath because their design doesn't show anything about their character beyond them being "LOL so randumb1!" thanks to Invader Zim and whether they're a white or black hat.

The worst part is that animators have completely misinterpreted the issue, and instead of giving us proper solid characters we have static characters. Bland, neutral poses that have no expression to them is the common style now. Almost everyone posts the .webm comparing the old Simpsons intro to the new flash one, hating how Marge's expression has change. What I'm asking for, and hopefully other people are too, is a revert back to the basic understandings of anatomy which, again, more and more artists no longer care about. Even anime is falling to this, and you can see the differences between what anime did do, and what anime does now.

He wishes everybody drew like Bob Clampett.

>>90161094
Nice copypaste.

>>90161140
Off yourself

>>90161140
Neck yourself.

>>90161140
Do a flip.

>>90161094

Amir, is that you?

>>90160484

But how do you prove you know realism? I mean on the internet, if course you must carry around your realism shit on your portfolio.

I mean is not like you can draw them on the go, realism takes me like a week and a half each, well, I also work a 12 hour shift so there is that...

>>90161094
I mean, you're not wrong... But times have changed.

>>90160617

He must hate Anime with a passion then.. Anime aims for perfection and consistency, in fact anime is not realism, it is idealistic.

Do we have any account of him talking about Anime? Seems Johnny here just strive for ugliness for sake of uniqueness.

>>90160667
You have to take it with a grain of salt, though. Even in 07, half the stuff he said was misleading or too iron-clad. Like, he makes great points about purpose in pose, pleasing aesthetics and drawing from your own life, but at the same time he'd insist that you can't make a good cartoon unless the animators are the only "writers" or that anything not first based in cuteness will inherently be unappealing.

He doesn't hate anime, but he doesn't particularly like it either and says he doesn't get Japanese humor.

>>90161289
I'm trying to find something but apparently there's a hentai artist using the name John K. Pe-Ta, and considering my browser history...

>>90161318
I can kinda see that. Japanese humor is very odd when thrown in the face of a Westerner.

>>90161289
He hates a great deal of anime, but is fascinated by Japanese/Korean artists (even with an anime style) that have great fundamentals and skills involved. He respects talented artistry. Regardless of where it comes from.

He strives for that unique drawing in producing something, but is fine if others don't follow through with that line of thinking if they can pull off what they go out to achieve with tremendous skill/artistic prowess. If they can be funny about it in their drawing then all the better.

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>>90160852
According to John K, the Nine Old Men, and Termite Terrace animators, construction and solid drawing are superior to freehand until the time they come naturally to you.

Milt Kahl famously studied tiger film reels so much that he didn't need any references when drawing Shere Khan.

>>90161332
Check his blog, johnkstuff (>>90160667).
He really didn't like Panty & Stocking; see if you can find "Inverted Curves Man".

>>90161238
If you really understand the fundamentals of drawing, of proportion, anatomy, construction, perspective etc, then this will be reflected in your art, no matter how stylised it is.

On the other hand, if you're just copying the surface aesthetics of a style (see: nearly every teenage weeaboo on DeviantArt) without understanding the underlying principles, then it will look wrong.

"You've got to know the rules before you can break them", as the saying goes.

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>>90161094
Might as well post the GIF

>>90161591
What in the Seven Hells is this?

>>90161591
>"Inverted Curves Ma


That is just awful.

>>90161591
>a real human bean

>>90161276
Literally what kind of fucking statement is that?

"Yeah you're right, it's all lazy and terrible now. But it's okay to be lazy and terrible now."

His whole point is that while times have changed, skill and craft has dipped, and times need to change now in a way that returns to skill and craft.

>>90161140
kys

>>90161332
>John K. Pe-Ta
His stuff is so equally bizzare and cartoonish that I'd be unsurprised if the two were somehow related.

>>90162355
>post yfw John K. Pe-Ta is secretly John Krisfalusi

>>90163082
How come I can't find a girl to do this with me? Or even wants to see my dick?

>>90163722
no idea, i have a hard enough time convincing them to at least try. big dicks are a curse, anons, hope you don't get one.

>>90163722
Try stacking more points into charisma.

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Does Kricfalusi hate video games too??

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>>90163082
>filename
>no necrophilia at all
YOU TRICKED ME

>>90163722
>>90164073
What was the deleted post?

>Hack General

>>90164234
>What is 4chanX?

>>90161547
what about the people who draw for fun? do they gain anything?

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>>90161556
>"You've got to know the rules before you can break them", as the saying goes.

>a million years old and still dipping in 20-something poon

CHARISMA: 10

>>90160503
I think you hit the nail on the head here. John can say some good things about cartooning, but at the same time he comes across as narrow minded because he puts certain artists on a pedestal and expects everything to fall into his own school of thought.

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>>90164817
Yes, if you want more control over your drawings. You have to care about improving if you want to get better though.

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>>90161289
He liked Fooly Cooly. And he has a huge post on his blog about anime color schemes and how good they are.

>Seems Johnny here just strive for ugliness for sake of uniqueness
When John K was good, his drawings weren't "ugly". He actually had a really good sense of design. But that "ugliness" you're talking about is the acting he gives his characters, which makes them feel more like real people. I'd rather look at something like this rather than generic anime waifus.

>>90161307
>but at the same time he'd insist that you can't make a good cartoon unless the animators are the only "writers"
this is true

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>>90165232
>still dipping in 20-something poon
Not anymore.

What you think sex with John K would be like, /co/?

>>90167867
He'd probably say that sex was better in the 1940s, just like the cartoons.

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>>90167867

>>90168086
I'd pull an Skyler Page to grab Katie's butt.

>>90167924
The 1940s was before mass circumcision in America became a thing so he'd be right.

>>90167924
>Joyless, and with little purpose other than practical.
Huh. I guess he would.

>>90167867
Newsflash: Katie hasn't been 20-something for quite a few years now. Gotta move on to younger and better things.

>>90169584
Women are like money; when they get to forty, you exchange them for two twenties.

>>90167806
I'd say like 50% true. What is correct is that if you're a writer with a good sense for visuals or knowing when to let the artist do his or her thing it'll give you a better edge over a writer who doesn't.

>>90160358
>Spumco Style

do people unironically still like this?

>>90171632
I've got a buddy who basically worships at the altar of John K. Takes everything the guy says as gospel and not only backed Cans Without Labels but actively defends it any time he sees a comment that even has a hint of disparagement. He's not an animator. He doesn't even really draw. But I think he'd willingly suck John's dick if given the opportunity. He fucking loves Spumco Style.

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>>90171726
>he'd willingly suck John's dick if given the opportunity

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>>90171897

>>90169045
Circumcision was a thing since the early 1900s, dude.

>>90172948
FOr you.

>>90162445
The lesson from Picasso isn't that he had a great foundation in the traditional arts which allowed him to break all the rules.

The lesson is that he had a great foundation then threw it away to chase what was popular at the time. Money, fame, and branding where what mattered and he became everything that is wrong with art today.

>>90175633
Picasso knew what he was doing in creating his art. That foundation is what allowed his art to actually work. It may look ugly, but it still something amazing on the whole.

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>>90167613
It'll be hard. But I'll manage to do it.

>>90160358

An artist's worth is primarily a combination of technique and originality. Originality may be in the design, or the approach, or thematic, or even a gimmick. An artist without some degree of individual uniqueness will find it difficult to receive recognition, if no one can attach a name to the style.

From a business perspective, originality is exclusivity. That's where the value is. So a cartoonist who slavishly copies but never exceeds the original has little value because it would be easy to get similar-looking work.

>>90178199
and knowing is half the battle.

>>90160358
>I don't understand.

its the same situation with weebs wo try to draw anime shit. Only create ungodly abominations of their favorite characters.