Thunderbolts #10

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>>90126337

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>>90126360

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>>90126394

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>>90126423

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>>90126443

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>>90126466

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>>90126492

How big of a book?

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>>90126522

Zemo does a pretty terrible job at trying to convince them to join him.

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>>90126553

>>90126552
About 32 pages

>>90126552

33 in my digital edition.
3 pages for the opening/previously on/letters
10 page prologue
20 page main story.

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>>90126603

>>90126570
Book is terrible all-around

>>90126603
>>90126615
Huh. Smaller than I expected.

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>>90126640
Fuck Malin

>>90126640

It's pretty much Zemo and his relationship with the Thunderbolts taking it to the chin in this issue.

>>90126645

That's what she said.

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>>90126668
Fuck Malin

>>90126695

>Fuck Malin

Malin is only one of the many problems with this book though.

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>>90126695
Fuck Malin

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>>90126717

>>90126715
Malin is the most glaring problem. Nothing works when he is on the book because he is shit at all aspects, at least when Izaakse was in, it was an innoffensive 6/10 title.

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>>90126765

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>>90126792

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>>90126820

>>90126792
>>90126820
That was beyond stupid, bucky. For shame!

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>>90126844

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>>90126869

>>90126792
>>90126820

>goes out in the Artic without a shirt on
>gets ambushed by the Wrecking Crew

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>>90126902

>>90126919
No one expects Spanish...wrecking crew

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>>90126937

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>>90126968

>>90126968
I cannot understand the choice of paneling in the Zemo/Fixer panels. It's so squished that their heads look unusually elongated.

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>>90126994

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>>90127043

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>>90127069

>>90127022

It's really unclear whether they are facing eachother or not.

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>>90127098

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>>90127121

>>90127121
>>Melissa! You Stu!

>>90127138
Hydra Bucky incoming?

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>>90127138

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>>90127177

>>90126522
On one hand jay for joly being back

On the other this is still written by Zub

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>>90127202
Poochie finally got the time machine

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>>90127231

>>90127222
The writing is still bad. Why would songbird leave fixer and moonstone behind

>>90126968
>>90126994
>>90127043
>>90127069
>>90127098
>>90127202

Zemo is really terrible at selling this to them as an appealing deal, and the fact he isn't even trying to manipulate them or pull their strings makes this pretty shit Zemo-writing.

This is where Pleasant Hill and the fact that Erik, Norbert and Karla aided him there really should have been brought up again.

>>90126337
I'm convinced that this book getting canned is all Malin's fault.

>>90127277
Well she holds no love for Moonstone lets not forget that

>>90127298

Anon, the art is shit but the writing is not much better and the book has been an aimless, rudderless mess since day one.

>>90126423
So Thunderball's already regressed to lackey role. pity.

>>90127277
I don't know, I can't say I hate the writing, I haven't paid enough attention to it because the art just turns me off, I love the thunderbolts and was really excited for the comeback, I though I could deal with the art, but it really takes my attention away.

>>90127325
Which time? The odd dozen times they've saved each other over the course of ten years?

>>90127345
I think it started with Ellisbolt and it all went downhill ever sense.

>>90126603
Wan't Counter-Earth destroyed in Robinson's FF run?

>>90127339
Writers forgetting history of chars bothers me. Fixer is literally a reminder of previous bolts teams

>>90127298
>>90127330
Just like one can overlook bad graphics in a game if the gameplay is solid one can overlook bad art if the writing is great.

But this book has neither

>>90127361
My point is way worse stuff has happened between them and around them and they got over it before

>>90126820
Why does Man-Killer have her arm around Piledriver and Bulldozer?

>>90127109
That's the expert teachings of Rob Liefeld for you.

>>90127410
Pretty sure that Songbird still thinks that Moonstone had something to do with her mother dying, going to be hard to recover from that one.

So, verdict on Zub's Zemo?

I feel like the difference between Spencer's and Zub's take on the character that Spencer writes him as someone who regressed while Zub writes him as someone who never progressed in the first place here.

>>90127442
I didn't think that she did though but I haven't been keeping up with nubolts

>>90126968
>>90126994
>I know you. I know that Karla is a bitch that should never be trusted. Which is why I want her to join me.

>>90127202
>Fixer goes back to being submissive to his ex-boyfriend

>>90127476
She is the teams heavy hitter, if not the glass canon.

>>90127512

The way he is being written and the way Zub talked about him he is gonna turn on his boyfriend soon, though.

>>90126337
Is Ghost in there?

>>90127611

He's on the cover but he isn't back in the story yet as far as i've seen.

and to be honest that's probably a good thing. These writers are not jeff from previous run in 2011/2012

>>90127611
He's right next to Crossbones.

>>90127442
>>90127473
She DIDN'T, but Karla is manipulative and amoral enough that you can easily believe she would.

>>90128067

Sofen's always been manipulative but my point is based on their own history, songbird would already know all of her angles and flavor their history with stuff like this going down and writer not knowing the history just makes up whatever he wants even though it doesn't fit or it should be long past this kind of stuff.

>>90126640
Wait, how did they know it was Jolt? It's literally been years even in-universe since she was on the other side of the sun.

I can understand Zemo recognizing her, if he saw her, but did Mankiller ever actually MEET Jolt?

>>90128120
I'm sure that Zemo has a file on all the thunderbolts for new requites to read about

>>90128105
Karla has never been as heroic as she was in the original Thunderbolts. Between going mad with power in Avengers/Thunderbolts, Ellis made her more more of a villainous manipulator. Shortly after came Dark Avengers, where Bendis started writing her, where her character was basically dumbed down to "Slutty Starscream", which carried to when she was written in Reed's Ms. Marvel.
Even Parkerbolts had her push more towards being heroic, but by then, Songbird had MANY reasons to dislike her, and Karla has never been the type to try to gain favor with someone who isn't explicitly a superior.

>>90126820
>"Well, Luke Cage is with Iron Fist again, Abe and Melissa are here, and Norman Osborn is who knows where."

>>90128284

I don't think she would have to go heroic to fix shit with someone that has helped save her life as many times as she and songbird have been fighting together, so I suppose we just see it different but I get what you're saying with uneven characterization.

>>90128340
Songbird is surprisingly judgemental for a former supervillain.
I mean, it had to take having literally nowhere else to go for her to forgive Abe for taking money from Hydra, and at least he actually admitted he fucked up.

>>90128426

Songbird being judgy is literally half her charm, so I know she's stubborn, I just feel like I said that past history was left out of the writing.

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>>90126640
Bagley's art makes it somewhat tolerable, so to this point the book can be read
but then >>90126668 there's this shite ad I can't help but be pissed
and also, why would Josten fawn so much over Bucky being a great team leader and all that? they were in what? three misions? and got busted almost allways. Clint I can understand, but this is Buckywank ad nauseam

>>90128426
>>90128450

In a lot of ways this book reads like most of the characters' history is being ignored, to be honest.

>>90128527

Right, I just think the character interactions from previous teams show how interesting even just hanging around chitchating about bs could be if you understood the characters and what pushed and pulled them.

Competing agendas, never knowing what characters were going to do, which built a unique team feel that I don't think have been reproduced anywhere else.

and this feels like someone was given the car and doesn't know how to drive.

>>90128513

Even Luke would make more sense but at this point Bucky is a gary-stu warping everyone's personality around.

>>90128618

I think one of the worst sins this book has committed is not to deal meaningfully with the Pleasant Hill fallout, especially here in this issue and with the way Zemo has been set-up by the Cap book.That is character interaction and personal drama gold.

>>90128633
our only hope it's that after Secret Empire ends, they change the creative team and Bucky's "leadership" is explained via Kobik's influence
this would be the kind of retcon i can bare

>>90128684

I don't think we'll be that lucky.

>>90128450
And Karla constantly standing on the line between hero and villain is HER charm, but Songbird is exactly the kind of character who wouldn't see it that way. As you said, being judgy is her charm.
If literally ANY other of the classic Thunderbolts were against her, it'd be one thing. After all, Fixer is constantly helping Zemo with his sinister plans (as recently as Brubaker's Captain America), Mach-X literally took money from Baron Strucker in New Thunderbolts, Wonder Man's Revengers AND was part of Zemo's Pleasant Hill revolt. But again, Songbird literally has hated Moonstone ever since Ellisbolts.

>>90128717
>But again, Songbird literally has hated Moonstone ever since Ellisbolts.
More like since Songbird almost outed Moonstone for killing the alien king.

>>90128717

It looks like it's time for Juggs and ghost to come back and put band back together.

>>90128809
Ghost appeared lurking in one of the earlier issues, spying on them.

>>90128843

I wonder what he's been up to all this time, probably off sinking illuminati into the ocean for kicks.

>>90126337
>Jolt is back
>Genis-Vell is on the cover

Malin.. Malin, I swear to god if you do this, I'll buy the entire run of Thunderbolts.

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Gotta say, Secret Empire better deliver a good goddamn pay-off. And let's hope the book gets relaunched afterwards with a better creative team.

>>90129024

>thinking we're ever getting decent bolts again

anon pls..

>>90129024
the Thunderbolts are one thing that may happen in a MCU post-Infinity War, even if it's merely a probable pitch the writers are gonna toy with that
get ready for them being synerigy'ed GotG style

>>90126337
>Bucky is front and center
>Hawkeye barely in the third row

Also, where's Joystick?

>>90129466

That is idiotic and would never work. thunderbolts could be done by fox but never marvel/disney.

>>90129535
This. It's just not the Thunderbolts without Deadpool.

>>90126844
>this whole page

Holy shit. These pencils are fucking hideous.

>>90129736

You're going to get a generic knock off Moonstone without mutants, no songbird, juggy/deadpool gone, I'm sure ghost is tired up with them too so that leaves, either really old bolts that nobody knows or the new shit flavor that people hate.

it isn't just deadpool, its their entire world has stuff tied up with what fox owns.

>>90129908
>knock off Moonstone without mutants
But Moonstone has nothing to do with mutants

>>90129921

I swore something early in her history was tied up with them, I know moonstone is kree in origin but something else too

>>90129908
What the fuck, the only one tied with other studio is Beetle and Sony is willing to play ball.

>>90129948

I was wrong, I forgot her first appearance was a cap book, so she should be fine.

that being said some of the best elements of tbolts are trapped with different companies, so my original point stands, besides moonstone.

>>90130078

The first story dealt with Fantastic four (fox) the second tbolts story dealt with X-men(fox)

I see what you mean if you're just talking the team itself and none of the stories.

and the new stuff deals with what sony has if they wanted to play ball like Dark avengers stuff.

>>90130082
I don't see how any of the original TBolts are locked up with different companies besides Beetle and Fox is already throwing Marvel and bone with Spider-man so they could work something out on that end.

>>90130082
But who has the movie-rights to the Kree?

>>90130256

Well Disney already used a version of them, so they're probably shared.

>>90129521
Forget Joystick, where's Charcoal?

>>90130510
I think he's the giant rock looking fucker next to Rulk. I can't think of anyone else on the team who looks like that.

>>90130231
First Thunderbolts story involved the Rat Pack and the Wrecking Crew.

Please be good, please be good...

>>90130545
If you wanna get real technical, it was the Hulk.

>>90126337

Nah, fuck Bucky.

>>90127121
The first panel here is a comic war crime.

I still feel like the writing is more average than bad but it would need good art to make up for it.

>>90132541
Good art can add characterization in otherwise boring panels of talking, and dynamism to action sequences. This has neither

>>90132616

The panelling in this is actively terrible, too.

>>90133383
This. Panelling was so bad this time that it murdered the flow of the book.

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BRING BACK JOYSTICK AND TROLL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>90133824

Why do you want to inflict this book on them?

>>90133953
I just wanna see them one more time mein

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>>90130231
>second tbolts story dealt with X-men(fox)

>>90129466
Can't wait for the Thunderbolts to defeat Zemo with a rap battle.

>>90136727
Just to play doubles advocate, I could see Fixer doing something similar to "DANCE OFF BRO" just not as ridiculous.

>>90136771

He did use porn to overload some rogue's computer system once.

>>90136771
Member when Songbird used an opera note to fuck over Zemo?

>>90129024
If Spencer doesn't kill himself because of Marvel Rebirth, I'd like to see him tackle the book, his Fixer and Zemo are great.

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>>90138623

His take on Fixer and Zemo is pitch-perfect.

>>90138623
It's funny because the entire HydraCap arc at this point certainly seems like it is just a disguised Zemo Rebirth.

>>90138990

Considering how this issue went I wouldn't be so sure about that. They seem to be walking back on the last two remaining aspects of his character development - his relationship with the T-Bolts and his rejection of his nazi father.

>>90133824
I didn't like Joystick. I'd definitely like to see Troll back. Maybe on a new Runaways team or something.

>>90128513
Atlas's always been more partial to military type leaders.

>>90126695
>I'm envisioning you and Karla buying lingerie together
I'd pay to see that. Most of the original Thunderbolts play off each other really well, but Moonstone and Songbird especially.

>>90138772
I read Spencer's Zemo with X the Eliminator's voice.

>>90126492
Oh damn, they gave him the Hercules treatment!

>>90126968
Wait, how is Bucky tanking hits from the likes of the Wrecking Crew and Tiger Shark?

>>90128120
I think Man-Killer ran into the original incarnation of the Thunderbolts while Jolt was still on the team.

>>90142225
How is The Wrecking Crew winning a fight?

>>90126522
Finally!

>>90142425
Strength in numbers and ambush tactics.

Honestly, the Wrecking Crew, despite being the face of jobbing in the Marvel Universe, really ought to get a few stories now and again where they get to be a legitimate threat. They are four Thor-class brawlers. That is pretty goddamn dangerous!

>>90127121
I hope Jim Zub never gets to write a character I like again.

>>90138772
Eh. His Zemo veered a bit too far into Saturday morning cartoon villainy, and just making him Cap's boyfriend isn't going to fix that.

>>90127387
>one can overlook bad art if the writing is great.
Nope

>>90127456
Zub doesn't even write him like someone who had a place to progress from. It looks like he didn't even read the intro to this metaplot and Kobik.

>>90142603
Only one is Thor class, no?

>>90142706
I thought that the Wrecker was only Thor class when he wasn't dividing his power with the other 3

>>90142706
Well, strictly speaking none of them are really Thor's equal. But they can all pretty fairly trade punches with him, even if the Wrecker is a bit stronger than his buddies.

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>>90142646
Zemo's at his best when he's being a little cartoony. The idea of the Thunderbolts was a little silly, don't you think?

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This panel is the perfect summary of this whole comic run. Note how every character except Bucky and Kobik is static and faded out.

>>90142939
It's a shame, too. There's so much to work with in that set-up. Heck, just Karla and Kobik would make a fun miniseries.

>>90143145
Yeah, but Karla isn't Bad Team Mom anymore for reasons. The reasons are Zub is a hack.

>>90138772
>Trapster bullying
>Zemo snark
Pleasant Hill was fun.

>>90142939

The plotting is also really bad, like there are several subplots and plot points that fizzled out into nowhere.

>>90142364
>Man-Killer
She was actually a member of Hawkeyes Bolts, went by the name Amazon.

Thank you

>>90129908
What the hell are you talking about? Songbird, Moonstone, and Ghost all have nothing to do with the X-Men. Ghost is a goddamn Iron Man villain. None of them are mutants.

>>90148389

No.