Would you agree with this statement?

>>90076984
>surpassed
I wouldn't be on /co/ if it did.

Only if you really consider "American comics" to be strictly the big 2.

Indy comics are getting larger all the time, and they're creator driven, totally uninhibited by some sort of awful comics code or need to be family friendly, and cover a wide variety of genres and styles.

Manga could only be considered superior for two reasons (which in actuality are two parts of the same reason). One, manga is a lot more widely available. It isn't relegated to the highly reclusive LCS model that the west has, mostly because Japan uses a digest format for many things and Americans fucking HATE the digest format. Second, almost all manga is printed on super cheap ass newspaper quality paper and in black and white. So they can put something out every week instead of every month.

Most manga (proportionally) is fucking terrible, but it successfully creates the impression it's great because there is SO much of it in terms of sheer volume, and inevitably the best will always bubble to the top.

So, no, manga isn't superior to comics, in terms of the stories themselves at least. However, manga is infinitely superior in terms of distribution methods, volume, availability, the size of its audience etc.

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>>90076984
>it's a /a vs /co/ episode

>>90077151
/thread

I'd say their action adventure manga is better than our equivalents both superhero and non-cape.

>>90077151
This is about all these is to say about it. Japan has managed to normalize the purchase of manga by the general population in a way that the western market has never managed with comics.

>>90076984
What do you like more, I am a Hero or Walking Dead?

>>90076984
No.

Every civilization has dabbled in the arts, since the beginning of time. Modern manga and anime may have been heavily inspired by early western animation, but it's not the source.

>>90077582
What is the source if not that?

>>90077151
Stupid post. American indie comic scene is a drop in the ocean compared to the sheer amount of manga being produced, most of which is good or passable. Meanwhile american capeshit is just hat, shit.

Go back to jacking it off to the american flag and a bust of george washington.

>>90077666
jej

>>90077666
>most of which is good or passable

Confirmed for only reading translated manga online.

For every manga good enough for a translation team to pick up and scan and put online, there are 100 more that are complete garbage that never get past 1 volume.

>>90077666
Why are you lecturing us about volume when the original post already covered the difference in volume? Did you give up on reading that post and decide to counter what you only imagine it to say?

>>90077582
So you're saying that Japan developed it's own form of narrative sequential art before the appearance of the Western comic strip at the start of the 20th Century?

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Well let's look at it this way: whichever of the two mediums has the better bottom of the barrel, the better the medium is overall.

So let's take the worst of American comics and compare it to the worst of Japanese manga.

And hell let's go a step further and compare the typical mediocre american comic to the typical mediocre Japanese manga.

Now, with that in mind, can you honestly say that american comics are better in either case? That absurdly shit Otaku moeshit is worse than, say, american webcomics, or american feminist superheroes?

Is the typical shonen story worse than the typical image comics totallynotathrowawaytelevisionpitch comic?

Look deep into your hearts, /co/, be honest, are american comics really in any state to talk about quality?

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>>90078239
>he hates cute girls doing cute things slice of life

It's so easy to spot the edgy plebs these days

>>90078239
This.

Volume notwithstanding there's a good number of interesting manga, or manga with good art.

There's a small number of interesting comics or comics with good art,

(Current ones, for both)

>>90078411
Which is a result of manga's volume, proportionally they produce similar levels of good work.

>>90077666
Fuck you Satan.

>>90078091
More or less so. Since there are a lot of kanjis in japanese, and people weren't expected to know them all, texts were almost always illustrated so you would grasp the general meaning easily.

>>90078462

Volume of good things is important, not just percentage.

If there were only two pieces of a medium, and one was good and another was shit, it wouldn't be a good medium because half of the content was good.

>>90077542
I am a hero before the aliens plotline

>>90077666
>a bust of george washington
I HAVE NO KNOW THAT MY BUST IS OF TEDDY ROOSEVELT

>>90077151
>Indy comics

You mean "proof of concept movie pitches"? Because that's all Indie Comics have been for decades now; a stepping stone to get to TV or film deals.

>>90078513
The West also had illustrated texts, even artworks intended to convey a narrative when viewed in sequence (eg Hogarth's "A Rake's Progress"), but the appearance of the comic strip as we know it wasn't until the very end of the 19th Century.

Can you cite an example of a Japanese 'comic strip' prior to the influence of Western culture during the Meiji Era?

>another animu vs cartoons thread
I like both, and I get why people like comparing them, but the only conclusion to be drawn is that Japs like drawing certain things and Americans also like drawing certain things. Both industries have influenced one another, trying to figure out which is better is pointless and autistic

>>90076984
Well he is right that Manga/anime had western influence and changed over time into something different than the western counterpart.

But it is far from the only thing that has done that, like he remarks Manga like it is.

I mean take Asian food in America. Changed and adapted to western tastes that many are different and some are made that you can't find in Asia. Like General Tso's Chicken.
Pretty much everything Music related is "influenced by this type of music, but slightly changed it to make it our own thing so now it sounds like this new thing".

>>90076984
To set the record straight, those "american comics" that they draw influence from shouldn't be referred to so ambiguously. Almost all manga owes its existence to Osamu Tezuka, the creator of AstroBoy and Kimba and all that. Tezuka's influence for his art and stories didn't just come from "comics" it specifically came from Carl Bark's Uncle Scrooge comics.

So the question you should be asking is not whether or not manga has surpassed american comics, you should ask "has manga surpassed Scrooge McDuck?"
the answer is no

>>90076984
His point would have merit if the the anime/manga industry had created franchises worth billions dollars like American comics has but they haven't. The combined market for Japanese media is a measly 2 billion, Marvel alone is worth over 4 billion. Weebs are kidding themselves

I like how manga is ofter more self aware of how silly is to have people in outrageous costumes delivering dramatic speeches.

>>90076984
>If you trace manga to it's source, then you'll find american comics.
Not really. Manga existed but it was literally walls of text with pictures sprinkled here and there. American comics just brought over the concept of panels and speech bubbles.

>>90079514

Has any comic surpassed Scrooge McDuck? The answer to that is also, no.

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It's pretty much a fact that no western comic can surpass even the most mediocre manga.

Only thing west has to offer is garbage "philosophical" bullshit from europe or braindead cape turds from Murica.

Surpassed in what area? Am I supposed to believe that every aspect of manga is better than western comics? What a pile of crap.

I usually find that manga is very often more well-drawn than a lot of western comics. But then manga has a lot of really crap stories. And Manga doesn't seem to suffer from the DC/Marvel story problem, where characters are recycled OVER and OVER and OVER again. The Japanese market seems to handle new IPs much better, where the Western market seems to really try and stick to the same old shit.

Manga was never hampered by the Comics Code Authority, so was able to retain a broad variety of stories. There is still a greater diversity in Manga then is represented in the totality of Western comics, Big 2 and Indies combined.

Why do you think the Manga boom was so popular? Because it offered things that, for a long time, were missing from American comics.

Romance comics almost vanished after the CCA.
Sports comics are practically unknown in the American market.

Think about the manga that have made it over to the West. Then realise there are TONS more manga that will NEVER make it over (in an official, commercial sense, amateur scanlations not withstanding).

Somewhere in the house, I have a digest of Mother-in-Law stories. A whole book of comics about the relationship with a spouse's mother. You'd be hard pressed to find even a dozen indie comics about that.

>>90080961
Not if you include European comics.

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>>90079514
A challenger appears

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>>90076984
The only evidence of this statement is Ken Ishikawa

fucking look at this
You could NEVER find art this good from another cartoonist, Japanese or otherwise
most manga is shit though

>>90079766
The Dragonball franchise has grossed over 30 Billion Dollars how much has Batman or Superman's franchise grossed over 70 years?

>>90081150
Most any medium is shit.

For every good musical song, there's mountains of mixtapes and sample CDs of crap.
For every good webcomic, there's a thousand pieces of shit trying to be the next big thing despite having no original idea or passable art.
Etc etc

>>90076984

Absolutely not. They are both exactly the same- 90% mediocre copying something else successful.

>>90081310
I don't think you can measure Superman or Batman grossings.

Not cause of size but cause of variety.
Mean they've had comics, movies, cartoons, radio shows, conventions, toyslines, novels, videogames, Roller Coasters, etc.

>one more chapter

the alien plot is certainly weird as shit but i don't want it to end

>>90081350
Yeah and really that's a description that can fit any medium of entertainment. Be it music, movies, comics, videogames, etc.

>>90078578
get your head out of your ass and read something besides Image

>>90079136
>it doesn't count as source material unless it looks exactly like i have in mind

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>>90079514
First of all, Tezuka didn't create manga, he merely popularized it.

Those were hardly Tezuka's only Western influence, and it's not as though later mangaka have never drawn from other sources.

>>90079514
Floyd Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse was arguably a bigger influence on Tezuka. There's also guys like Milt Gross, who no one remembers now days.

>>90077151
i feel most good manga have better storytelling

i feel that a lot of comics are too condensed and episodic

>>90079514
since you're talking about barks, i've been wanting to get into disney comics, barks, rosa and whatever else is worthwhile. Any reccomendation charts or graphs to help me out?

>>90081380
So has Dragonball

>>90080501
>And Manga doesn't seem to suffer from the DC/Marvel story problem, where characters are recycled OVER and OVER and OVER again. The Japanese market seems to handle new IPs much better, where the Western market seems to really try and stick to the same old shit.
I think this is largely due to Japanese copyright law automatically granting the artist(s) IP ownership of the manga, rather than the publisher. Publishers can't just change artists and keep the characters going the way they can in the U.S.

So you only see that kind of thing when the artist is into it, a la Go Nagai & Devilman,

>>90081690
Just go to the Disney section of Fantagraphics' website and click "add to cart" until you're out of house and home. All of it is solid gold.

on lifetime sales, One Piece by itself ranks third, with batman 2nd and superman 1st. LIFETIME SALES. one piece has been running for 20 years.

in 2016, one piece sold 12,316,326, while batman sold 1,859,956, and superman sold 828,069 units.

>>90081963
What is the point of this post.

>>90077151
You know there manga that is monthly too?

>>90082043
And?

For superhero media, western are best. Anything else, only seinen type of manga. The problem with western comics is that you very rarely see anything that is not superhero comics, so no wonder people get bored with it.

>>90082012
fuck, i forgot to reply to the string of posts that were arguing about grossings.>>90079766

>>90082012
ONE PIECE SELLS MORE THEN WESTERN COMICS XDDD

it's old bait used in the /toonami general/ threads

>>90082077
That guy is an idiot baiting people into the (false) sales=quality argument tho.

>>90076984
Not going to lie, the sole reason I prefer manga is because it's in black and white

>>90082095
yep, but even then he's wrong.

>>90082102
FUCKING RACIST PIECE OF CRAP

>>90082062
Well you seemed in your post only see manga as weekly thing

>>90081562
You still haven't provided a Japanese source that bypasses the influence of American comics.

>>90082102
I don't understand this argument.

Most manga look terrible if colored, due to how flat they are., unless they go for the most realistic styles.

>>90082206
most comics look terrible when colored too.

>>90081698
Dragonball had a rollercoaster?

And really I don't think we need to bother measuring or considering any "profits" from DBE.

>>90082238
>Dragonball had a rollercoaster?
Given that Dragonball's popularity peaked around the same time as Japan's theme park fad, probably.

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>>90082064

>>90081150
Eh, its not THAT impressive IMO.

Its certainly good, but I'd hardly say greatest of all time

>>90076984
It's a shame only Japanese and American comics still survive. British and European comics put out as much stuff as those two did back in the 20th century. Most of it was childish crap and hardly any was serious but it's still a shame the whole scene died almost completely.

>>90076984
who cares ?
go read some euro goodness, and you'll forget about this meaningless antagonism

>>90083137
gr9 b9 m9

>>90077666
>most of which is good or passable.
kek, how fucking delusional can you be? Most of it is hot shit, only the stuff that makes it over here, and subsequently everywhere else, is good. With the exclusion of gundam stuff.

>>90076984
>manga
>maybe years and years of publication... but even the longest series eventually end or get axed.
>comics
>#1! Rebirth! NOW! THE NEW FAGGOTS! Crisis! That was just X from another dimension, the real one is here in this new X #1! Ultimate!

Yes, I wonder wich one is better.

>>90077666
(You)

>>90077444
How did you manage to be so incredibly wrong without anyone commenting?
Comics were exactly the way you claim never existed in the western market for years. Multiple acts of DC vs Marvel fuckery caused everything to spiral out of control to the point it is now.

>>90081150
Damned food poisoning. Now we'll never find out the mystery of Getter.

>>90076984
I rarely read western comics. Mangas have a lot more genres. You may point at some obscure western comics but they are very few and not nessesary good. There are thousends of manga of every genre.

>>90077151
>Second, almost all manga is printed on super cheap ass newspaper quality paper and in black and white. So they can put something out every week instead of every month.
Related: Manga artists put in a lot more hours than comic artists. It's a super difficult job, but that means they put out chapters a lot quicker than in America.

>>90084209
Agreed. If I want a SoL, I either pick up an indie comic that comes out once a month and will probably be discontinued in half a year, hope Marvel or DC give me one staring Superman, or choose one of the readily available SoL mangas that have been translated into English. We're probably a log better at soap opera style dramas, but he have next to no sports/comedy/SoL/etc... comics available.

>>90081963
The Batman and Superman Brand are still far more valuable off merchandising and movies alone and this is without going into DCs other brands or Marvel. What the Japanese industry does is quite literally a drop in the bucket compared to western comics

>>90078407
There's only one good slice of life series, and it involves Freddie Mercury.

Out of american,euro, and japanese comics, japanese comics has the cutest girls doing cutest things.

so manga wins.

>>90081103
Where?

>>90081150
didn't you know nigger, Gerhard on Cerebus has better spreads than this

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>>90076984
>surpassed the western industry
>implying manga sells more because it's good instead of having a bloated overpopulated audience that is the overcrowded island of Japan
>implying manga has better literary qualities when it's top sellers are all shounen fight manga with worse continuity and plot holes than any bendis book
>implying mass distribution and printing makes them the better industry when both are just part of the massive cost cutting measures polluting the industry and making it one of the worst places to work ever
>implying manga editors are better when 90% flat out admitted they'd rather publish fap material for preteen boys instead of making something original and worthwhile because they want their retirement money hand over fist
>implying manga and comic fans aren't on equal standings when it comes to being social blemishes
>implying Monkey D Luffy has any significance as a fucking deity when he's never obtained the level of global cultural recognition as Superman or Batman

tl;dr manga is still as shitty as comics in completely different aspects.

Now if you weebs could kindly take your Jojoshit and fuck off that'd be fantastic

Americans don't even read the worst manga since it probably doesn't even get translated.

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>>90076984