We're the xmen ever good?

They are the most popular superhero team ever for a reason

X-Men been up and down, good and bad, running in cycles. Just like any other 50-80 year old franchise. You just have to take a little time and find the stuff at you personally like.

I liked them up until the mid '00s, they're unrecognizable now

>>90074883
>>90074896
I honestly never expected such positive replies

>>90074843

Most of the people that grew up in 90s and watched the cartoon and found the comics will always love the X-Men.

>>90074843
Their 90's costumes are over rated

The Phoenix saga was a mega hit in the 70's, 80's and they have been milking its success ever since

When the writers and artists move to image comics
This franchise started to slip and faluterd

Bendis put the final nail in the coffin

>>90074843
There's simply TOO much x-men to say if it's good or bad

Do you really think there's one person out there who's read EVERYTHING x men related?

>>90074883
> most popular
Cmon Justice League?

>>90077375
Thinks somebody ran a story time of Uncanny from beginning to end

Or maybe it was just Claremont

I loved them until mid 00s or so (maybe Unstoppable was the last thing I truly enjoyed apart from Uncanny X-Force and PAD's X-Factor)

Nowadays they dont feel like the X-Men I liked so much. I wish I could believe in Marvel when they say they'll bring back the glory days but...

I consider them the best superhero team ever and strongly recommend the 80s, early-mid 90s and Grant Morrison's stuff.

>>90077375
There are people here who shelf display everything X-Men related.

But the X-Men were no longer very good by the time of the OP's picture.
Also Jim Lee is one of the most boring yet proficient comic artists of all time. So fucking boring.

Not as good as doom patrol

Lee is actually as bad at drawing realistic people as Liefeld, he's simply better at "comic book style" than Lolfield is.
Both of them learned to draw human beings from the works of older comic artists. Neither of them have a good grasp of anatomical detail.

Lee samefaces horribly, cookie-cutter exaggerated physiques errwhere, he's consciously avoided drawing hands and feet in the OP's pic for the most part, since he's only good at comic spatula feet, clenched fists and a few Kirby gestures...

The 90's were truly a dark time for comic book art, with all the youngsters just badly aping the old guys.

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>>90074843
From where did Jubilee get the popcorn and soda?

>>90077795
Mojoverse

That's Dazzler pregnant with Shatterstar in the corner of thr picture after a Mojoverse civil war

>>90075195
My love for Storm can be traced back to the 90s cartoon. So sultry.

>>90077434
>JL is teh most poppolar
lol nobody gives two shits about anybody in the League besides Superman and Batman

X-Men comics can be good. It depends heavily on the writer and his or her approach to the franchise. You need a writer who prioritizes the story, characters, and plotting over pushing their personal agenda in the comic.

>>90079925
No such writer currently exist since 2001.

>>90074843
Sure, they used to be great, and they can be great again. I believe that. I have to ;_;

>>90077470
I'm still doing that! Like I said at one point or another I haven't read *everything* X-related, like I gave up with Dazzler or Mantlo's Alpha Flight.

>>90079925
That really hasn't been a problem for X-Men comics desu

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>>90080035
So were you a big fan of Claremont's 2001 return with X-Treme X-Men and his Uncanny X-Men?

What was your opinion on Claremont's X-Men Forever?

>>90080623
I liked Tantra.

>>90074843
Depends on how belted they were.

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>>90074843
The Claremont period was great,Morrison age was meh,Whedon age was good but began the bad habit of character assassinating older X characters,Gillen was passable but ruined Beast,Aaron was Great,Bendis shat on beast,Wolvie,Ice man,Jean and Kitty but his cyclops was great.Hopeless is driving the franchise into its darkest phase so far

>>90080742
I loved the concepts Morrison introduced to the franchise like the second mutations or the normies who wanted to be mutants.

>>90078398
1) That's wrong you idiot
2) You can practically say the same for Wolverine, Cyclops and Xavier

>>90074843
We are the xmen ever good?

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>>90080821
Morrison wrote one of my favorite interpretations of Beast. Morrison got Beast. Not very many writers do. Kieron Gillen didn't ruin Beast. Gillen is a huge fan of Beast and Abigail Brand. S.W.O.R.D. was great and Gillen has a legitimate affinity for Beast.

I chatted with him and artist Steven Sanders on a message board several times when Gillen was writing S.W.O.R.D., Uncanny X-men, and Generation Hope.

Comix Zone - 3RR?X-DJ0HJ-WVLZ?

? = 4

>>90080694
LOL, that's the only thing I liked, too.

Jesus wept at Tantra's power set.

>>90080903
>implying anyone cares about any Leaguers besides Superman and Batman

>>90081076
>inplying anyone cares about the X-Men but Wolverine and le funny Deadpool
Also, horseshit. If we're talking JLA levels of popularity, it's the Avengers that are the most famous team.

>>90080981
>I'm as gay as the next mutant
lmao

>>90081152
the popularity of the avengers is a very recent thing. they used to be incredibly lame, the Justice League with C list characters.

Marvel kept the Avengers movie rights because no one wanted to buy them.

New Xmen waa good.
The animated series was good.
The movie was okay.

There are good runs before and after new xmen, but bew xmen was my first real foray onto the comics (only seen the animated series before) so my opinion is biased.

>>90080981
they should have made young Beast gay instead of young Bobby at least it wouldn't have been completely out of left field

>>90077434
When JL, or anybody really reaches the sales X-men had in the 90's, call me.

>>90074843
Seeing as my man Longshot is in the page you've posted, I assume this is a retorical question.

>>90080981
>Hypercortisone D. This is the new drug [...]
yep that's Morrison alright

>>90081683
and then I read the whole page, yeah Morrison

>>90074843
they weren't just good they were the best.

the entire nerd-o-sphere rotated around the X-Men

>>90081345
>they used to be incredibly lame, the Justice League with C list characters
but they're incredibly lame now you casual shitter
they were unpopular I give you that

>>90081851
Comic Avengers are lame. MCU Avengers are very popular.

>>90082151
cape movies are shallow piss

>>90081345
>Marvel kept the Avengers movie rights because no one wanted to buy them.


And noone had the balls to pull it off.

>>90074843
The original Claremont era was pretty good.

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>>90077605
Doom Patrol was only ever good because of Morrison. Granted, it was pretty fucking good while his tenure lasted. Only if there was a way to return to those glory days....

>>90080821
>the normies who wanted to be mutants.

The U-men are extremely underrated but you could never do them today because MUH TRANSPHOBIA

>>90074843
Claremont was perfect until X-Factor was forced (Busiek is the only one nostalgic for O5 X-men) then it became merely great to good.

>>90080742
Beast was ruined back in 2009 back in Dark Reign.

Aaron's WATX was garbage. had all the ingredients to be great but blew it.

Bendis tried to pass off Rightclops' crusade as some kind midlife crisis/guilt over killing Chuck while possessed by the Phoenix.

X-men is good when the industry is good and shit when it is shit. we are in a shit period in the industry

>>90074900

>they're unrecognizable NOW!

You mean like they're all new all different?

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>>90074843
this rogue design was fucking 10/10

>>90074843
Yes, yes they were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgF_VMQ19aA

As far as modern X-men go, Morrison, Whedon, Gillen, Fraction and Carey are bretty gud.

Nothing will ever beat Claremont UXM and New Mutants though.

>>90082421
Well, despite X-Factor being forced I think that Claremont and Simonson dealt pretty well with it.

There are also pretty good stuff post X-Factor introduction:
>Wounded Wolf
>Mutant Massacre
>Fall of the Mutants (Apocalypse in particular)
>Genosha
>Inferno (I really like infern and Maddie deserved way better. Great villain though)
>The second Brood Arc
>Reavers
>X-Tinction Agenda
>Endgame
>Muir Island and Shadow King

And the boys end up saving the world while being drunk as fuck .

It may not be perfect but it was still better than anything else and a thousand times better than the current stuff

It was not a hit originally, Stan & Jack were stretched too thin and neither really brought their "A game" to the franchise. Despite the revisionist history, the original concept was lazy as all hell. Stan simply wanted a catch-all premise (mutation) in order to create a steady stream of heroes without having to work too hard on individual origins.

It immediately found itself near the bottom of comic sales, thankfully Roy Thomas and Neal Adams took over and rejuvenated the struggling series. Too bad it was already too late to save it from cancellation. These last few issues were far better than what had come before and could have led to interesting stories.

Len Wein & Dave Cockrum reintroduced the title in the 70's but it was Claremont & Cockrum (later Byrne) that defined the series and are responsible for 90% of what defines the series.

During this period the stories were free wheeling, it touched on any number of themes. They fought evil mutants, evil humans, aliens, vampires, dinosaurs, robots. They travelled all over the world, into outer space and into fantasy realms.

Unfortunately, like most things at Marvel, it got too popular to stay autonomous. As early as the 80's Marvel editors were pushing for crossovers & spin offs. Unlike modern Marvel every spin off was solid gold: New Mutants, Alpha Flight, Excalibur...later X-Factor and Wolverine.

It was the 90's that killed the X-Men. Ironically, it was this period where the franchise reached its zenith popularity-wise...all while the quality of the series was falling off a cliff. Claremont had been the guiding voice of the series since the 70's but the rise of "superstar" artists like Jim Lee, Marc Silvestri and Rob Liefeld saw a power shift from writer to artist. Claremont found himself demoted to co-plotter with rookie artists and shackled with now annual crossovers. He left and shortly after so did the superstars. The title has been languishing ever since...telling only one story over and over again.

>>90075215
Lodbell tanked the franchise long before Bendis got his hands on it.

>>90074843
>We're the xmen ever good?
How can you look at that picture and still need to ask that question?

>>90078186
I WILL MEET YOU BY THE MONORAIL!

>>90082978

>Runaways, whedon, good

'no'

>>90083097
This is a good summary. Though it leaves out some of the fresh ideas that have been introduced since like Morrison's run and... okay, that's it.

The X-Men's decline accelerated into an outright crash when Marvel decided to actively shit on them and promote the Inhumans, though.

>>90084526

Yea, X-men is like series that's been rebooted like 7 times, using the previous one as a background info. Evey run since the 90's has had a hard time building upon the previous and done more retconning. I try very hard to look at them on their own and not as "x-men" just as what the stories do.

It's really unfortunate the writers seem to have the right answers but the editors push their fixes. No More Mutants was a major set back for x-men. That was the definitive death of X-men as the poster children for marvel. X-men was even bigger than spider-man in the 90's.

Not a coincidence, in 2005 is when marvel got a loan from merrill lynch to make their own movies and fox passed on working with them moving forward on the x-men franchise.

>>90085309
Yeah really good call on 'No More Mutants' being the definitive nail in the coffin. I do wonder if it's just a timing coincidence with the forthcoming Marvel Studios because the story would have been put in place before they knew they could get into movies. I'd hope it's a coincidence but I really do know better with how fast Marvel has been to shit on and bury the franchise that carried them for a decade at the idea of movie money.

>>90085645
I doubt it's a coincidence, didn't they have the Mutant X lawsuit wrap up around that time?

>>90085732
Probably. Jesus Marvel was such a mess from the 90s pretty much up until Iron Man came out. If they didn't have Marvel Knights and the Ultimate U to lean on so heavily they might never have made it that far.

>>90084526
>>90085309
Everything after Claremont was either:
1. Everything changes here! No more status quo!
2. Remember how great the status quo was? It's back!

Unfortunately, both sides are telling half truths because the end result of either direction was the same "mutants are hated" story.

Claremont kept the existence of mutants relegated to near myth amongst the marvel populace for much of his run. It allowed the characters to explore different stories like the vampire, outer space, fantasy, etc. directions that I mentioned in my earlier post. Their ongoing struggle with humanity found itself on he back burner more often than not.

Some mutants feared humanity, others were ambivalent and still others had nothing but positive experiances. Now they only see humanity with fear and hatred...and who can blame them? We've had decades of stories where humanity has only met mutants with genocide. Every story makes Xavier's dream look more and more foolish.

Another thing that killed many fan's interest in the franchise was the halting of forward momentum. What I mean by that is that mutants were designed to be replaced. Kill one and more are always being born and found. The original team was replaced with an entire team of strangers and it was amazing (or "uncanny" if you'll forgive the pun). Later a younger generation of mutants were introduced in New Mutants and the series built them from the ground up. I thought something stunk when they reintroduced the O5 in X-Factor but I knew it was dead when the New Mutants never became the X-Men but rather X-Force. In the last two decades more and more young mutants are brought in only to either die or be forgotten. The X-Men proper will never be replaced entirely, now most fans wouldn't allow it anyway...and the editors are fanboys themselves.

Aside from brief attempts at "new," we've been reading the same story with the same cast ever since Claremont left. Objectively, the creativity died long before the Inhumans.

>>90081484
I feel like that would have been acceptable because Beast

You'd have to make less of an argument about him being in the closet since he's had like one major girlfriend in his history

>>90085955
Why would you expect the X-Men to work differently from any other Big 2 comic title?

Each and everyone of them go through Everything Changes and Nostalgia phases that inevitably lead back to the same rough status quo.

>>90078398
Flash was a hit and so was Martian

John GL well he's the black guy he will stand out no matter what

>>90085955
That's why I have to agree with the whole No More Mutants being the halting point. I'm kind of cautiously optimistic with the new Generation-X series, but they can't introduce very many NEW characters, so we're getting Quentin Quire AGAIN. I did enjoy the New Mutants run from a fear years back with the original team operation as an X-Men squad, but at this point if they replace the X-Men proper with any pre-existing characters, people will just consider it X-Force or X-Factor or whatever and not the X-Men. Like how Uncanny X-men right now is pretty much just Uncanny X-Force

>>90074843
No. They are not enough panels showing Rogue or Psylock ass,

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>>90086053
Have Abigail Brand be Trans and there is your solution

>>90074843

You sound uncertain. Are you not sure if you are the X-men Ever Good?

>>90075215
Pheonix Saga is over rated IMO. Brood Saga is where the gold is. But I love X-men space stories

>>90080742
Austin was...passable for the most part.

>>90081484
But they would have had to bring Simon back and make him bisexual cause everyone should love him

>>90086775
Austen was terrible and gave us the madness that is Nightcrawler's devil daddy

>>90084291
Whedon did pretty great with the X-men. I hate all you /tv/ fags coming into X-men threads and saying everything he does is shit.

>>90086775
You are joking right? THE FUCKING DRACO ARC

That was the worst

>>90086706

The phoenix saga has a major cop-out ending. Jean dying is a weak ending. She was a hero, became a villain, and just got discarded because it got messy. I love the idea of her being imprisoned but then.

>Shooter, during a conversation with Claremont, suggested a scenario where Jean would be permanently imprisoned as a compromise, and Claremont responded that such a scenario was unfeasible since in his opinion, the X-Men would want to continually try to rescue Jean from imprisonment.

That could have been interesting. Try to do stories where the X-men at first try to accept Jean's imprisonment. Maybe they have no idea where she is, and for a while they are trying to find her, but it's a subplot till they break her out.

Yea, then you have to deal with the x-men breaking intergalactic law and becoming renegades. That's WAY more interesting than "well she is dead now"

>>90085955
yeah, Claremont hated being forced to bring Cyclops back. He also thought it was a mistake to resurrect Jean Grey. He wanted to cast to rotate.

It's how the best times of Avengers books worked too. constant rotating casts keep it interesting, just need a couple core members to be teachers or fighters and let the new characters have development

>>90086902
Whedon did a good work that stands on its own, but you have to understand that he was on two of the hottest books in Marvel at the time and he killed both of them with delays

Astonishing and Runaways never recovered

>>90086991
fair, but reading them now in trade they stand out as one of the better runs.

>>90086881
>>90086922
my bad. I had him confused for Carey.

>>90086925
Well now going crazy and dying tragically is all Jean Grey is ever fucking remembered for, because it's all she ever does. Well, that and cheating with a drunk hairy midget. When's the last time Jean did something noteable that wasn't Phoenix-related? GAYing Bobby aside

I'd take either jailing her forever or permanent death, anytime she shows up now the reader can just count the pages til she snaps.

>>90087308
>Well, that and cheating with a drunk hairy midget.

They never actually did.

Though I agree with everything else you say. The character is so one note its awfull pretentious. I HATE that about characters. Gwen Stacy is like that. They use her to kill her, which is stupid. We're too brand awareness and selling based on familiarity. No one wants new stuff cause it scares them, they want same old same old......

>>90086986
That's what made Claremont and many of the writers from the 70's and 80's so good. They wanted to keep the foundation in place while making necessary (albeit small) changes to keep things fresh. They were always trying to find new stories while staying true to the roots. Now they either recycle or they throw everything established into the toilet and replace with their new pet character.

Claremont with X-Men, Stern with Spider-Man (later Avengers), Michelinie/Layton/O'Neil with Iron Man, Englehart/Gruenwald on Cap, among others. The Avengers were constantly changing almost from the start, as were The Defenders.

It's frankly astounding that nearly every writer to come after Claremont gleefully rips off every theme, character, nuance, etc. EXCEPT the one thing he fought so hard for...change.

>>90087718
It doesn't help that the past several years, Marvel hasn't let a single writer (who's name isnt Bendis) stay on a book for more than 20 or so issues, then starting the book with a new team and a new #1

I'm telling you, if the cost doesn't end up driving me out of the hobby, that's going to. I am getting so burned out on hype and changes that are non-entities I'm finding it really hard to give a shit about any of it anymore.

>>90087978
I'm on an extended break from modern Marvel at the moment...still buy trades/hardcovers for silver/golden age stuff though.

As you mentioned; There are a number of factors that have squeezed the life out of comics...Marvel in particular:
>1. Indies have become a viable alternative for writers, which means they save their juiciest ideas for their post-big 2 work.
>2. Constant reshuffling of talent in order to restart comics with new "collector's item" 1's. Now a writer never gets to spend more than a year crafting a story.
>3. Movie synergy, now the writer has no choice but to follow a movie plot he had no input in.
>4. Status Quo is now maintained by fanboy editors and stubborn fans will terrorize then if they even perceive hints of a change.
>5. Pandering to markets that will NEVER read your books.
>6. Crossovers: Hope you didn't have a big story arc planned because next month we're doing stories with giant monsters...good luck!

This last one is an educated guess...
>7. It appears writers no longer have a choice in what titles they are allowed to write, what characters they are allowed to use or even which artists they get to work with.

>>90083410
Haha what? He was the main guy during the X-Men's biggest period of popularity. Editorial bullshit mainly played a large role seeing as that drove him off the book after Operation: Zero Tolerance and then drove off his replacements (Joe Kelley and Steve Seagle) too leading to the shitty Alan Davis period where he was Claremont was ghost writing at least part of it.

>>90084089

>>90089580
Lobdell wasn't the nadir of the X-franchise like the earlier anon wrote but...saying he was the main guy during the height of their popularity is misleading.

Claremont built the X-Men up over his 15+ uninterrupted tenure to the storied franchise they found themselves at in the early 90's. They were so popular that a cartoon was proposed and, unfortunately for Claremont, it first aired almost a year after he left the title. The cartoon strapped a proverbial rocket to the X-Men's notoriety.

Lobdell was just incredibly fucking lucky. Claremont had left in huff feeling replaced by hotshot green artists. Those artists (now mediocre writers) then jumped ship to Image. Lobdell apparently got the job because he walked by the editor's office at the right time.

If the franchise was a house then Claremont built and furnished it. The cartoon gentrified the neighborhood and Lobdell was just the first tenant. ...I guess the Image artists were shady house-flippers or something.

All he had to do was coast on the fumes and...that's basically all he did. Crossover after crossover, that was all he knew. X-Cutioner's Song, Fatal Attractions, Phalanx Covenant, AoA, Onslaught and Zero Tolerance. The fact that these banal tedious crossovers still managed to sell set the tone for the next decade+ of awful crossovers that we still find ourselves in.

>>90086881
>>90086922
How sad that it's still better than all modern X-men.

>>90082409
What's eith Morrison and crossdressers, trans, etc?

>>90090815
Caught the gay.

Just rereading Ellis' X-Men run. Wow. First 20 pages are basically about how much sex they have. At least he gets the core idea right

>>90077434
>only good character is Martian Manhunter
>doesn't even have Swamp-Thing

yeah fuck JL

>>90077605
It's funny how Morrison was the writer of both the freaks on DC and Marvel.

>>90074843
at one point they were second only to batman

>>90090979
I have basically no recollection of Ellis on X-Men, except that the art on that one mini was sort of odd and he fucked with Forge in an unnecessary way

>>90090845
Well it works.
>>90082368
I like Giffen run.
It has a little bit of everything and shat on Byrne.

>>90090380
>Crossover after crossover, that was all he knew.
Again, how much of that is on him and how much is editorial? Editorial was trying to meddle in Claremont's stuff back in the '80s and a big part of why he left was editorial siding with the artists over him. Lobdell was the "good soldier" true enough but there's no way most of those crossovers weren't editorial bullshit and again, even Lobdell got fed up with it. I think the final straw for him was when they nixed the team he was going to use post O:ZT because they wouldn't allow him to use Sabra and some other characters.

And it's obvious that for as much shit as he gets he did have his strength as a writer in less actiony character-focused stories like a lot of the downtime done-in-ones or GenX.

The franchise was going to "go to shit" no matter who took over because of editorial/marketing and if someone didn't want to put up with it, they'd just leave in frustration until Marvel got somebody they wanted. Even then, most of what's "shit" of that time period comes mainly from the two main books. The non-Uncanny/Adjectiveless books were generally pretty good aside from post-PAD X-Factor.

I've never read any X-Men, but I'm interested. Anyone got some links to any comics? preferably 90's stuff, but anything is good.

>>90091147
Bianchi. His art can be a bit weird at times but it's god tier watercolour. IMO it makes up for any shortfallings in the story.

>>90086421
I can get behind this. I'm a huge fan of Lord Fanny.

>>90091310
Check >>90063449 or getcomics.info
There's plenty there.

>>90074843
anyone else notice how Idie Okonkwo is copied from the fire and ice villainess from operation zero tolerance and her power set is pyro/iceman? does she have potential to be an omega level mutant like iceman?

>>90086986
It's Claremont's fucking fault. Jean was supposed to give up the Phoenix Force and retire with Cyclops at his family's private air strip in Alaska.

Claremont took it upon himself to have Jean destroy a solar system and 5 billion people so she could masturbate.

Shooter was not going to let a character get away with genocide and not face consequences for that action.

All of Jean's problems originate back to Claremont's sick fetishes.

>>90091147
He's likely talking about Astonishing which is pure garbage. It deserves so much shit for the bad stories, pointless shitting on characters (ruining Forget, literally desecrating Wallflower's corpse) and Bianchi's kind of a shitty non-pinup/cover artist.

>>90091310
Age of Apocalypse was 90s. If you read that and like it and/or if you like Cable and Deadpool, follow it up with Uncanny X-Force. Deadpool appears in the X-Calibre miniseries for AoA from the 90s.

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>>90091326
Nope. Bianchi is great, I was talking about the Xenogenesis mini series. The art itself isn't that weird but the choices that were made is definitely strange. Like, just look at Emma here

>>90090979
Its glorious. His X-Men run was a joy to read. He was taking the piss out of the characters and having a great time inserting his patented zany science recognizable.

>>90091479
Currently in All-New X-Men her powers are apparently the ability to transmute fire into ice, and ice into fire. And that's all

>>90091310
https://mega.nz/#F!5kJFCBjJ!TG-NaDE3TdmkZ_uVOkD3eg

This is X-Anon's Mega, it includes pretty much everything from X-Men #1 to right before Fall of the Mutants

>>90091578
Wow...i like cheesecake but this is just...bad
>>90091539
I can understand comic people not liking Bianchi but to me it is technical masterpieces. Very little compares in comics unless you bring up the old giants like Dave McKean and David Mack

>>90091429
>>90091544
Thanks dudes!

>>90091732
Mack is a hack.

>>90091766
>never read Kabuki
Fucking pleb

>>90091861
http://insignificantknowledge.blogspot.cl/2011/01/david-mack-plagiarising-artist.html

>>90090815
Fetishes and magic.

>>90074843
> Every female character on this spread sans Jubilee is posed the exact same way

give it up for Jim Lee!

>>90091931
All after Kabuki. I have no clue what happened to him. He seemed to have self destructed in some way. Which isn't surprising considering how fucking depressed he is

>>90080903
>2)

Nah, the X Men movies changed that.

Because of the movies every girl I knew in grade school loved Storm and even Rogue.

No one liked Jean though.
Fuck you Jean, you bitch. Owned again.

>>90093199
No one cares about storm or rogue from the movies. They did jack shit. The cartoons made the cool outside of comics.

>>90093300
Dude, kids just like whoever's got the sickest powers. I was born in '98 and in Australia so no one I grew up with had seen the cartoon.

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>>90074843
Ironically, they stopped around the time Jim Lee blew up the sales.

Despite his dated writing style and extreme levels of exposition, Claremont's 80s stories were genuinely fantastic and to this day, everyone is just doing rip offs of what he did. I genuinely think Rogue's arc during this decade is hands down the most fascinating arc of any X-man.

Nothing marvel has made ever was better than anything DC has made

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>>90091578
That was a really weird cover art.

The interior art looks like this.

>>90093685
Cool company war, bro.

>>90093781
And that is a fucking mess

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>>90087718
No, that was Jim Shooter keeping all the writers in check and stringently maintaining continuity.

Claremont admitted he wanted Nightcrawler's biological father to be the demon Nightmare from Doctor Strange. Steve Ditko complained to Shooter saying Claremont's idea would derail his Doctor Strange run if he had to share Nightmare with Claremont.

Jim Shooter sided with Steve Ditko.

Claremont tried a second time to make Nightcrawler's biological father Nightmare, but by that time Steve Ditko was an editor and could personally veto Claremont's idea.

Pic is Nightmare.
If anything, Chuck Austen's Draco is the realization of Claremont's original idea of Nightcrawler having a demon father.

Don't really know anything about x-men but I bought all, at least I think all, of age of apocalypse off of ebay. Will I know what's going on?

>>90094006
But poorly executed

Btw, I find Lilandra to be the sexiest alien ever created, who wants to bang that bird lady with me?

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>>90093863
I disagree. Kaare Andrews drew some of the best single and double page spreads for the Xenogenesis mini.

Ellis had worked with Bianchi and Jimenez on Ghost Box and Exogenetic.

Bianchi has a very Italian, science fantasy infused Hellenistic art style.

Jimenez is classic Superhero comics.

Kaare Andrews deliberately wanted to change up the art for the Xenogenesis.

The only thing Ellis complained about was the title to the second arc, Exogenetic. Ellis titled that arc "Doctor X." Editorial informed him via telephone they changed the title to Exogenetic.

>>90094092
I liked Deathbird and Circe more but sure I'm with ya

>>90080981
> The last panel.

At first I was like "that's really meta." But then I remembered Morrison wrote this.

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>>90094282
I have to go with Deathbird, if I have to choose a sexy Shi'ar character. Lilandra was really a push over. Deathbird, on the other hand, was that crazy slut who bangs every and any guy she sinks her claws into, and then bangs his friends behind his back.

She's glorious.

>>90094229
That art is sickening.

Jimenez may have been classic comic art but he was damned good at it

Morrison only writes in meta. I don't think Morrison understands "normalcy." Even Ellis stands in awe of Morrison.

Referencing the time that Ellis asked to have a drink with Morrison, only to have Morrison open the door wearing nothing but a towel on his head and told Ellis he couldn't have a drink because he was having breakthroughs.

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>>90094359
Calm your tits, mate. I love Phil Jimenez's art. Jimenez draws my favorite Emma Frost. However, I dig Andrews breaking the mold and giving us this Emma Frost.

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>>90074843

YES you troll.

They have some of the best comic stories ever made.

>God Loves Man Kills
>Phoenix Saga
>Dark Phoenix Saga
>Days of Future Past
>Proteus
>Age of Apocalypse
>Death of Illyana Rasputin
>Original Weapon X Origin story from Marvel Comics Presents

Those are the classics. Those are the ones even casual comic readers know about. And they all happened within continuity. Think of any other super hero, or team. Can you name 6 Avengers classics? How about for Spiderman? Even the best Batman stories are all alternate timelines and re-tellings.

Aside from those classics they have a fantastic cast of villains that they build stories around. The little mini arc in 1992's X-Men #1-3 is an awesome story that doesn't overstay it's welcome but reintroduces Magneto, evolves his character, gives him a new team of super powered followers all in only 3 issues.

And In any iteration the X Men were a team of mostly kind-of-screwed-up people, from being outcasts their whole lives, that lead to great drama between team members. The Wolverine/Cyclops/Jean Grey love triangle was fucking iconic. There has never been a better love triangle in comics.

The spin offs were even pretty good too with Generation X, Wolverine's solo book and The New Mutants being the front runners.

>we're the xmen ever good?
>we are the xmen ever good?

You got me to reply you dirty troll.

Yes, probably the best comic book ever.

Go buy the Claremont Omnis and then the Morrison Omni

>>90080821

Morrison had a lot of good ideas and evolved the racism mutants faced away from the Civil Rights movement of the 60's.

>>90085883

Agreed. The first three major Ultimate books, (X Men, Spiderman and The Ultimates) really saved Marvel's ass in the early 2000's.

>>90086082

Not the guy you're replying to, but it's because for the first almost 30 years of it's history, the X Men weren't afraid to work differently. Like he explained, the roster went through a lot of changes, they experimented all they could. Even up to the 90's they allowed characters to bow out, even without death. Beast became an Avenger and left the X Books. Angel legit retired. Sunfire decided to just leave the team to stay in Japan, Banshee left active duty, Thunderbird was killed. Cyclops and Jean kept trying to leave too and would for stretches of time.
Then they went through years of stagnation because the characters they had written like Wolverine, Gambit, Cyclops and Magneto had got so popular they needed to keep them "on screen" at all times. Plus any new X Men they tried to whip up became less and less interesting like Maggot and Marrow.

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>>90074843

why is Longshot holding Dazzler(?)'s belly? Did he knock her up?

Also, southern belle Rogue with big hair = best Rogue

>>90095309
she was pregnant with his son, Shatterstar (the ponytail guy from the original X-Force)

>>90080821
> second mutations
shit taste and one of the worst things morrison contributed to the lore

>>90094055

They use mostly core characters but if you haven't followed any of their previous story arcs or don't understand their character from the "real" timeline, then it's not going to have nearly the impact as someone who has been reading X Men for a while. Read the classic X Men stories first, then read about a year's worth of Uncanny X Men and X Men before Age of Apocalypse happened. Otherwise you're not going to care or understand why the character's personalities changing is interesting.

>>90094006
shooter and ditko were both right there to keep nightmare separate

>>90095484
And Shatterstar's DNA was used to created Longshot because Time Travel. Longshot is his own clone grandfather

>>90094359
Well, at least Scott looks pretty hot.

>>90074883
Avengers and the Justice League are objectively more popular right now. This isn't the 90s, m8

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>>90097405

X-men were the top team for decades from Giant-Size debut through the ninties. More than 30 years of top sales when compared to other groups.

>>90074843
Were any cape characters?

The answer is no

>>90097405
>Justice League more popular than X-Men
Aside from DC comic collectors, no.

>>90097436
>X-Men were the top team

You said it, m8

>>90082409
>but you could never do them today because MUH TRANSPHOBIA

They literally murder people to use their body parts. They're also written as new age cultists who want to feel special due to being envious of super powered people, rather than thinking they were born with the wrong gender. Not exactly transphobic, unless you look at them from a crooked POV.

>>90085955
>Everything after Claremont was either:
>1. Everything changes here! No more status quo!
>2. Remember how great the status quo was? It's back!

Not really, that was way later development in the past ten, fifteen years. The 90s did have some status quo shake ups, but very little about the X-men themselves changed until around Morrison's time, when things really saw a change. People mostly perpetuated what Claremont did. Now days it's event shit after event shit. Sure, characters were written out in the 90s early 00s or had a major shake up, but that was largely for spin offs etc. like with Bishop getting his own book. They still hanged at the mansion like always and fought old villains etc.

You are right about young mutants. The X-office have done a shit job of making use of old characters, and just throwing newer ones in at any chance.

>>90086809
>Simon gets his own body back, but being stuck inside Rogue so long he's become bi-curious

I... I kinda want this. And see him hit on Gambit, unconsciously feeling attracted to him because of Rogue. And Vision going "this is highly illogical, I do not feel a bit gay"

>>90086925
>The phoenix saga has a major cop-out ending. Jean dying is a weak ending

No, the original ending where she loses her powers, i.e. gets a slap on the wrist was a weak ending. Jean's death is far more iconic than your suggestion.

>>90077795
>Laura's comedic pose in the background

>>90097923

You're the reason we can't have nice things.

Jean committing suicide is a fucking shaggy dog story ending and you god damn know it. The Shi'ar let her go, doesn't mean everyone was going to be ok with her being let go. Having the character be alive leaves it open. My suggestion was Claremonts suggestion. I was just saying it didn't have to be as direct and forever stuck as he suggested. Comics don't end and have real conclusions. Having an all powerful force just die is stupid, its only iconic because it's the one they went with. It would be iconic either way. The story is what is iconic, not the ending. If the ending was so perfect they would not have retconned it a couple times.

>>90098287
>Having an all powerful force just die is stupid, its only iconic because it's the one they went with

No, it's iconic because she died. If she got practically scott free from killing a planet, it would have been a story with a very meh ending.

>>90098623
The whole Jean destroying a solar system and committing genocide so she could get off was never supposed to be a in the comic.

Claremont went off the reservation and wrote that issue behind everyone's back. He derailed the entire comic with that stunt and stayed Shooter did threaten to fire Claremont. the art for the last two issues were finished, but multiple writers and editors had to collaborate to come up with a replacement ending.

>>90094526
>That hand positioning
You're not fucking slick, Andrews.

>>90094229

Emma's face is just fucking terrible, you should have your eyes plucked out anon.

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>>90074843
>We're the xmen ever good?

See me after class.

As someone who never read a X-Men comic in their life
What's stories would you guys recommend? Or writers?

>>90099545

From what I've noticed, it is always tribal, based on which kind of characterfag you are.

I'd suggest finding a character you like and going from there. Because they'll have you reading old comics which shitty art.

>>90099545
>What's stories would you guys recommend?

Morrison's New X-men run.
Larry Hama's Wolverine run.
Age of Apocalypse
PAD's X-Factor, all three volumes that do it entirely differently (government mutant team, P.I. and corporate mutant team ) and Madrox mini
Scott Lobdell's Phalanx Covenant lead in story and then the spin off Generation X run.
Claremont's Mutant Massacre, Asgard Saga, Dark Pheonix Saga
Deadpool & Cable

Bound to be something you like.

>>90099545
X-Men is pretty dense to try to break into, honestly. If you Start with Morrison's New X-Men which leads directly into Astonishing X-Men by Joss Whedon it'll set you up with a good foundation for a lot of modern X-Men stories. From there I think there might be an event or something that will lead into Matt Fraction's run, which is where you get a lot of recent years' story fodder. Actually after Fraction's run You can go right into the Schism mini, then Wolverine and the X-Men by Jason Aaron, then Avengers VS X-Men, which brings you directly to the original Marvel NOW! from 2012 or so.

Everything >>90099609 lists are all good but you might be pretty lost with what's going on in a lot of it.

>>90100043

>Shilling whedon and schism and one of the more hated events in AVX

anon pls

>>90100046
Whether or not you think any of it is good or not has no bearing on the fact that all of it is pretty important in the overall X-Men story

>>90100065
>it is pretty important in the overall X-Men story

Topical importance does not matter if the story itself is shit and you're just starting out with the X-men. You can google that shit if need be.

>>90100065

You're embodiment of cancer.

>>90100065
Remember those lasting effects Spider-Verse had?

Oh... wait.

>>90094852
>Even the best Batman stories are all alternate timelines and re-tellings
Not really.

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>>90099545
I've just finished "X-men:Legacy"and it fucked me up in a good way

>>90094359
>>90099506
>It's not boring and bland so I HATE IT! I HATE ART THAT ISN'T MYOPICALLY AVERAGE!

Same old /co/.

>>90101395
Except it's not, /co/ loves weird art.
See, Moore's art.
You can't just go "/co/ DOESN'T LIKE THE STUFF I DO, FUCKING TYPICAL"

>>90101395

her face is fucking ugly, it has nothing to do with weird art and fact it is not aesthetically pleasing. Go drop acid if you want a weird picture show, stop trying to force your shit artschool nonsense into books about characters.

>>90099545
wait a few weeks and just start with the relaunch with X-Men Prime, X-Men Gold and X-Men Blue which spins out the end of IVX, and if you like them just work your way backwards or find an X-Men you like and follow their appearances.

other than that read everything in the order it was published in, when you just follow writers during their runs you end up missing out on like 500 other things happening at the same time since there's always 10+ semi connected X-Men books running at the same time.

>>90101440
/co/ likes cartoonish art, it's just stems from sharing the board with cartoonfags and most people at some point originally migrating from one of the anime boards.

people who like traditional comic art is always going to be a minority here.

>>90101495
>stop trying to force your shit artschool nonsense into books about characters
...
...what?

>>90101919

They're people who dislike standardizing faces, and you're obviously defending people trying their own thing even though it looks ugly.

We're going to disagree no matter what the topic is.

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on the subject of art it's official X-Men Blue is dead in the water.

get those pitchforks sharpen and get ready to run Bunn, Axel and the rest of the brain trust at marvel out of town

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>>90102431
maybe this will jive with some people on /co/ and there are rumors of a new X-Men cartoon.

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>>90102467
RIP in piece
Jean's body.

they can talk the talk and slap as many #1 on covers as they want but Nu-Marvel is here to stay folks.

>>90102026
>you're obviously defending people trying their own thing even though it looks ugly
Alright, first off, different anon. Secondly, I still have no idea what he tried to say with that.

>>90101197

Yes, they are.

Dark Knight Returns
Year One
Long Halloween
Dark Victory
Even The Killing Joke was it's own event outside of the normal comics line. It was a miniseries not Detective Comics #X-Y

>>90102575
Shaman
Venom
Prey
Gothic
Strange Apparitions
The Mud Pack
The Last Arkham
Batman and Son
The Black Glove
Batman RIP
Batman and Robin Reborn
Batman vs. Robin
Batman and Robin Must Die
Time and the Batman
The Black Mirror
Batman Inc.
And tons more.

>>90102575
>>90103068
Year One
Long Halloween
Dark Victory
Shaman
Venom
Prey
Gothic
Strange Apparitions
The Mud Pack
The Last Arkham
Batman and Son
The Black Glove
Batman RIP
Batman and Robin Reborn
Batman vs. Robin
Batman and Robin Must Die
Time and the Batman
The Black Mirror
Batman Inc.

All of these were literally in-continuity before flashpoint. Unless you actually might to right "Yes, there are"

>>90074883
Cartoon? No, wolverine.

>>90101197
Yes they are. The best Batman story is literally just his surreal dream.

>>90102431
>>90102467
>>90102503

there's something really sterile about this art though.

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>>90097957
Remember when Laura was allowed to be fun?

>>90102503

where did all of jean's curves go, wtf. why are they so hell bent on turning every woman into a dude. who the fuck are they writing for

>>90102467
At least Scott doesn't look like a 8 years old like he does in fucking Champions

>>90102503
What's Batman doing here?

>>90102503
Jean leading is a mistake

Even my little cousin knows it

>>90101440
>>90101495
Since time immemorial (long before you started frequenting these boards) there have always been turbo-spergs who lose their shit and howl that art is """shit""" when art deviates even slightly from well-tread traditional naturalism or full-on wacky stylized art. It's a well-practiced refrain.

Late 70's to the early 90's was prime X-Men and spin-off books.

By the 90's, these are what you can consider good in the X-books:

X-Cutioner's Song
Fatal Attractions
Age of Apocalypse
Operation: Zero Tolerance
Mutant X

After 2000, the X-Men became insufferable because writers distanced themselves even more from 616 continuity and bitch about the non-X heroes for not guest-starring. I was a die-hard X-fan for more than 14 years, but this shit got annoying in the 00's.

And don't get me started on the current Inhumans vs X-Men squabble because frankly it's a pissing contest between Trannies (Inhumans) and Gays (X-Men).

>>90102503

Since when Black Tom can deflect a Cyclops eye beam with his own wood beams?
also, we have him and Banshee is still dead.

>>90106247

from 2000s on
Morrison's New X Men
Whendon's Astonishing
The Messiah Complex event
Gillen's Uncanny
Pads X Factor
Spurriers X Men Legacy are all
good or very good
Also, House of M must be read to understand every post 2005 x men story

I also liked that that storytime about Vulcan with Rachel going to space with Havok and Polaris, and Rachel becoming straight for a Shiar guy with a final fantasy sword, but thats a guilty pleasure.

>>90106247
So the Inhumans are mentally ill. IvX makes so much more sense now.

>>90106153
>when art deviates even slightly from well-tread traditional naturalism or full-on wacky stylized art
yes, as long as there's no reason to do it
is there a reason to do it in Astonishing?

>>90106272

Male banshee looked like a fag. We need Siryn back if anything.

>>90106364
The more I looked at Inhumans and Mutants, the more I realized that Marvel inadvertently made a parallel between Transgender/Transsexual people and Homosexuals/Bisexuals.

Everyone that reads Marvel knows that everyone that lives on 616 Earth whether Mutant, Eternal, Deviant, Mutates, Atlantean, or Non-powered Humans had superpower potential grafted onto their genes by the Celestials. This genetic potential is also found in offshoots of 616 Earth like the Uranian and Titans as well as the Inhumans.

The Inhumans had their powers/transformation unleashed via artificial means (the Terrigen Mists). So they're basically akin to the Mutates (humans who were exposed to radiation, magic, cosmic energy, etc. and became heroes or villains). Except that selective breeding by the Kree and constant exposure to the Terrigen Mists is what conditioned them to believing that their superhuman awakening is what is natural.

And because of this, they released a death cloud that kills mutants out of a misguided attempt to awaken the latent descendants of Inhumans that mixed with the rest of 616 humanity.

Mutants were the experimental group of lab mice that the Celestials did for shits and giggles to see how the genetic lottery would turn out. You can make an argument that basically everyone affiliated with 616 humanity was part of artificial means to create superhumans, but at least mutants don't release a worldwide mist that poisons and kills others. When a mutant's X-Gene goes active, there's potential fallout because they can't control their powers, but nothing apocalyptic.

The only good thing from this clusterfuck is that Marvel is finally addressing that mutants aren't special snowflakes and that the other sub-groups have something to say about "Mutants are the future! Deal with it flatscans!"

>>90106619
>but at least mutants don't release a worldwide mist that poisons and kills others.
Magneto just isn't that good a chemist. And he's twitchy about gassings, for some reason.

>>90106357
>I also liked that that storytime about Vulcan with Rachel going to space with Havok and Polaris, and Rachel becoming straight for a Shiar guy with a final fantasy sword, but thats a guilty pleasure.
Same here. X-Men work very well in space, which is why I would kill to see a separatist faction of mutants colonize space. I mean, there's still Lila Cheney's Dyson Sphere.

I read the 2000's era of X-books. I really couldn't stomach it anymore. Cyclops and his faction are too militant for my taste.

>>90106676

oh dude, haha

>>90106676
Fox Movie Magneto did have that device to make the world leaders into mutants. I'm surprised Magneto never tried to spread the X-Gene onto non-mutants on a global basis.

But then again, it'll probably boil down to pretty (normal-looking) mutants with cool useful abilities vs the freakshows. Basically Omega and Alpha (some Betas) vs the other class of Mutants.

>>90095813
fuck off

>>90106542
>There's no reason to do it!

Once again, if it's not normal, bland, old same-y traditional naturalism, it's shit. Never-mind if they're interested in differentiating the characters more clearly, that is not a reason to deviate from the norm. Never-mind if the artist wants to dry something new and distinctive, that is not a reason to deviate from the norm. Never-mind if it looks great (it does), that is not a reason to deviate from the norm. Like clockwork, you arrive and say the same old things.

Other such familiar refrains are:

>It doesn't make sense!
>It's obviously ugly, get your eyes checked retard!
>This looks like a child drew it
>I could do this. Anyone could do this.
>The anatomy is off.
>It's just ugly, don't you get it?

There's a host more but you get the picture. It's more predictable than the rain.

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>>90106676
Really? He seems overjoyed gassing New Yorkers.

>>90107137
Nah that was Xorn in disguise as Magneto. Marvel made a serious cop-out during Planet X.

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>>90107246
Worst retcon ever. Planet X Magneto was legendary.

>>90107297
It was refreshing to see Magneto go full-out evil again. The last time we saw this kind of douchebaggery was Fatal Attractions, but Planet X trumped those casualties. Having people march into ovens was exactly the kind of shit that Mags is capable of, but no, he has to be this misunderstood freedom fighter.

I sympathize with what Magneto went through. Hell he even worked for a Western intelligence agency as a Nazi-hunting operative until they betrayed him. But there's a difference between wanting to fight and protect mutants from persecution and being an asshat autist that gives mutants REALLY bad PR.

Remember Magneto's public debut? When he attacked Cape Citadel so that he could use its nukes in the name of mutant liberation? And how he spouts that "MUTANTS ARE THE FUTURE!" while using his powers to kill human bystanders?

Magneto was the one who created the mutant boogeyman in the public eye. I remember a thread a long time ago that speculated what would've happened if Magneto debuted as a costumed superhero that stops everyday crooks to global-threat supervillains. If he was the mutant equivalent to Superman; a public figure of trust and respect, mutants might be treated on a case-by-case basis than generalizing them as threats.

>>90107297
I still consider this guy as Magneto

Fuck that retcon

>>90107455
That was the biggest tragedy of Planet X.

The Xorn personality represented Magneto at his best. A version of Magneto from the 80s where he led the X-Men as a promise to a dying Xavier.

Then because Magneto abused Kick he reverted back to his original full-on evil persona. A persona that was the epitome of the Mutant Boogeyman.

In his quest to prevent a holocaust on mutants, Magneto became the very thing he hated most: a Nazi.

>>90107586
Unfortunately, writing in the Big 2 prevent any real-lasting changes to the status quo. It's insulting as a long-time reader when something is immediately retconned because the next writer or editor doesn't like it.

>>90107716
It's why I ultimately quit buying superhero comics. I found that creator owned comics appealed to me. That's why I purchase comics based on the writer.

>>90107716
it had to happen because Avengers Disassembled and House of M were already in the works, you can't have Magneto get his head cut off and in the same month in Avengers show up to save the Scarlet Witch.

>>90107754
Same here. I even read manga because at least I'll see an end for most of the titles I'm in. I fucking love Berserk.

>>90107788
I understand that, but the way Marvel is operating, anything written more than 10 years ago is not considered canon. Or it's cherry-picked canon.

I'm not a stickler for what happened in Issue XYZ in Year 19XX. But anything that happens in major story arcs and/or crossovers should be retained. It gives the finger to people when you tell them to ignore everything that happened because THIS writer wants to tell you how HE/SHE wants it. Rinse and repeat.

>>90107754
get out of here, this is an X-Men thread, your kind isn't welcomed here, unless you wish to talk about which mutant you want to fuck.

>>90107871

I'm just sad anon, Mercs for money is cancelled by may. Life is just unfair, the best team in awhile and they died-ed

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>>90107906
Don't worry m8 something good will come.

>>90107788
Yes you can. It's simple anon.
>Real Magneto died in New X-Men
>Scarlet Witch created a Magento construct using her powers, which manipulated reality.
>Scarlet Witch could literally destroy or recreate any person she desired.
>Where's your proof, oh smug anon?
>She created her two sons using her powers.
>Created a fake Kree invasion that killed Hawkeye, only to bring him back, kill him again, and bring him back again.
>The Magneto in Avengers: Disassembled is a caring father who dropped his shit to come and save her at the last minute.
>Magneto is one of the shittiest fathers, ever. He ignores his children so he can gas humans.
>Answer: She created a new Magneto construct.
>What villainous acts has Magneto done since Avengers: Disassembled and House of M?
>None.
>Scarlet Witch's grip on reality and the truth had deteriorated so badly in House of M she was legitimately treating her Magneto Construct like her real father.
>The Magneto Construct can be starkly different depending on which comic he is in now because the Scarlet Witch created an illusion that became her reality.

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>>90107871
90s Rogue

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>>90107871
If you are being ironic, fine.

If you actually hold that opinion then: Viva La Inhumans. Cyclops is a fag, and Beast is Right.

>>90107863
>anything written more than 10 years ago is not considered canon.
how so? There are shitty retconns like Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver no longer being Mags kids. But those are fairly few.

There's actually a lot of good xmen parts. I mean "good " id really subjective but I can't think of any other comic franchise that has as many good stories as the xmen. Maybe hellboy and bprd buy again that's subjective.

Some highlights

>Claremont run
If you know xmen you know Claremont. The only people who don't like this either don't like older comics (usually because they are a lot more wordy and lower quality art) or they just like being a contraian. His run is one of the longest comic runs a writer has had on a series and most of the iconic xmen stories come from him.

If you enjoy watching characters grow and develop you will love his run. I mean when he wrote his wolverine stuff, wolverine started as this brutish guy who loved to fight and had anger issues but as it went on, he learned to control himself and calm down and be happy. Granted most of that stuff was thrown out the window by today but if you read just his run you will see how Claremont wanted him to turnout.

Another thing about Claremont's run I rarely see brought up is how he was one of the first people to have strong female characters in his work. I mean his run began in the 70s and at this time women on TV, movies, comics were usually secondary characters and didn't have much to them. I have some feminist friends who always bring up how people don't like comics with women in it and how they don't sell as much but then I'll bring up how the most iconic xmen run had tons of strong females and female leaders.

New mutants are also fantastic around this time but I've spent too much time taking about the Claremont days already.

After Claremont's run it gets more subjective. like age of apocalypse. you have the xmen at its most popular but this is a story you will either absolutely love or hate. it all depends on how you feel about 90s stuff. I personally loved the cable and x force stuff but it is extremely 90s and nostalgia is a big factor for me.

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>>90108208
>age of apocalypse.
What I hated about the Age of Apocalypse is that it automatically nerfed everyone into becoming Apocalypse's bitches.

It would've been a much better storyline had they actually included non-X characters that would've still been around regardless if Apocalypse woke up 10 years sooner.

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>>90108208
"strong female characters in his work"

The first thing he does with them is write rape fantasies, tentacle hentai, and being abused.

>>90108108

>Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver no longer being Mags kids

that's the original shitty retcon thou

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>>90108075
You are a little troublemaker, don't you?

Am I the only one who loves Lobdell and Nicieza stuff until the whole Onslaught shit?

>>90074843
yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvWDjHWgNg
https://youtu.be/NjGUE8XaUn4
https://youtu.be/YRYoP-S3Ho8

>>90108373

I like Nici but that was mostly for his DP Mercs with Mouth run and Cable and Deadpool etc.

>>90108287
sliding timescale 10 years ago in the 90's was before the F4 went into space, almost no one gets their powers in AOA. it's already explained in X-Universe which is about Gwen Stacy and Ben Grimm and the human efforts against Apocalypse.

>>90108305
Don't forget Storm's original stripper outfits. Or Betsy Braddock becoming a Japanese ninja fetish fuel.

>>90108418
but are they strong or not?

I loved Storm evolution during the whole Claremont run, she was the protagonist

>>90108208
>Morrisons run
This was a big change for the xmen and definitely transitioned them from Claremont's run to what it is today. it's a good place to start and Morrison definitely has some interesting new characters and stories. Aside from the magneto/Zorn stuff (although most of that happened after Morrison left) and the terrible art this run was fantastic.

PADs x factor run. If you haven't seen it praised on here then you have been avoiding xmen threads on co. it's really good.

>Cable and Deadpool
before way pool happened this was like a good buddy cop series. Serious deadpool is an interesting character and Cable's messiah complex hit its max here. It did have a weak ending here because it had to tie into event stuff.
New mutants around house of m time. This series started off innocent enough I mean you had kids at the school, school rivalries were the biggest deal to the characters, kids dealing with differences and racism, you know stuff you'd expect teenagers to go through. Then house of m happens and the kids have to grow up and previous school rivalries and enemies have to put aside their differences and work together. Plus you have the original new mutants in this run as mentors to the new kids which I really enjoyed. This is definitely an underrated xmen story.

> astonishing xmen
this is probably the most subjective one I'll put on here. It brings the xmen a bit more back into super hero status and tries to mix Morrison and Claremont stuff. It's fairly short but I think it's a solid run. Better than most stuff these days .
>Uncanny x force
Holy shit this was good. aside from one weak arc and weird art in another this run was brilliant. this was the last time I liked wolverine and I can't decide on my favorite arc in the series.

>>90108418

The Psylocke stuff was Jim Lee

>>90108554
Why no one talks about Morrison's FF?

>>90108305
>Storm becoming the leader.
>Depowered storm beating cyclops in a fight to pick the leader.
> Danielle from new mutants
>Rahne from new mutants
> rogue's growth
> kitty's growth
>mystique and destiny's implied lesbian relationship that would have been more obvious if editorial wouldn't have been against it.
>Depowered ms. marvel still being relevant

Yeah okay sure Claremont's run did nothing for feminism just because psylocke became a Japanese psychic ninja (although I could be wrong I'm pretty sure that wasn't claremont) and theres some fetish stuff in his run . Yeah okay.

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>>90108538
I don't consider racist 16 year old entitled brats calling people niggers "strong."

You do know the X-Men were created to stop racism and promote tolerance.

Calling black men "niggers" is like going to the Holocaust Museum in D.C. and saying "Hitler did nothing wrong."

>>90098623
>>90098714

There was a lot of discussion about it. No one is sure exactly if Claremont wanted Jean dead, cause he seemed to suggest it, but was opposed to it.

They seemed to intend to have her live and be a villain and threat that would return, but everyone had different ideas. They figured they could do like the cartoon eventually did, and have the entity leave with the person returning to a normal life.

Every intention and purpose behind Pheonix was the elevate the character, have a powerful force in the line of hulk and thor and DO something with it. They got hung up on a line that supposedly made it past the editors of the billions of lives lost.

I think suicide is the weakest ending they could have picked. It goes against the original purpose of making the character stronger and more prominent. If you're going to kill a character that's reaching the powers of a god, have someone kill them, not on accident. If they were going to do a death ending it should have escalated a bit further.

I think if all the writers/editors and fans were satisfied with the ending, we'd never have gotten cocoon clone bullshit.

>>90108753
Nigga deserve it.

>>90108753
Yo, that nigger was an asshole. Fucker was looking for it.

>>90108753

Kitty should have fazed that negro

>>90108734
>Storm became leader because Claremont doesn't like Cyclops.
>Storm lost her powers because Forge shot her with a gun designed to eradicate mutant powers.
>He never told Storm he was to blame for losing her powers.
>Forge never told Storm he was the one to make her lose her powers.
>Forge then takes Storm into seclusion under false pretenses.
>Storm finds out the truth and leaves Forge.
>Her biggest enemy was an Evil Spirit Bear. A Native American mutant gets a racist stereotype antagonist.
>Rahne is an abuse victim who Claremont treated like a lolli.
>Rogue stopped being evil. She didn't really grow much beyond Southern Belle with an attitude.
>Kitty went from spoiled brat to leather dyke. I guess that's growth?
>Mystique and Destiny as a couple was legitimately a good idea. No argument there.
>That's two depowered women. Does Claremont like exploiting victims of abuse plots?

>>90108554

some more runs I missed although I'm sure there's a lot more good ones that I missed.

>Gillen's run
It was really short but it was sweet. I was really hoping to see what was going to go down with sinister and it's a shame it didn't last longer. also doesn't help that the run after his was God awful.

>Kelly's deadpool
Not much to say arguably the best the character has ever been.

>Poshen and Duggan's deadpool
I'll mention that I only read this up to secret wars because this is where I thought their run was supposed to end so I can't say if it is still good. This brought back a more serious deadpool and it's the best the character has been in years.Good art. Good story except the first art but that was to ease the transition from waypool to more serious things. There's some tear jearker moments in this and the humor is pretty good. The good, the bad, and the ugly was probably my favorite story that year.

> Kyle and Yost X force
your opinion of this all depends on how much you can stomach edgy but when you get past the edgy it's solid. I like kyle and Yost a lot and if you aren't familiar with them they were writers for avengers earths mightiest heroes (the good show not avengers assemble) and scarlet spider (although that's not as well known)

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>>90108753
Kitty is insufferable. Yeah, I get she was calling out on the black guy using a fictional slur against her, but it's really annoying when Claremont's sock puppet spews slurs left and right like this eulogy moment.

The more I look at the X-Men, the more I sympathize with mutants like the Morlocks and other sub-Beta classes. The ones who can't pass as everyday humans and have shitty existences thanks to their mutation. Oh, but a cute straight cisgender Ashkenazi Jewish girl from the middle class is calling out on mutant slurs so hooray for all of us and more empowerment right? Right?

>>90108753
he was an anti-mutant bigot and tried to kill her in the story

>>90108753

>file name

it's wild how people just misappropriate things and lie on the internet.

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>>90108753
I like the replies I got with this post. Thanks anons for restoring my faith in shitposting.

>>90108967
>Does Claremont like exploiting victims of abuse plots?
Yes.

>>90108983
Her mutant power is to become intangible. He can't kill her if she's phased, while she can potentially kill him by phasing him into the street.

>>90108967
>Claremont hates cyclops
no he doesnt. He likes retiring characters.That's why he kept having the team change and had characters go on to do other things. he only brought cyclops back because they wanted the original game team together for x factor (iirc correctly he wanted havok (?) for the part)
>Storm got Depowered by a guy must mean she wasnt a string character guys XD
storm going from thinking she's an all powerful goddess to a weak human to a person who wants to be strong despite not having powers to getting her powers back and not thinking of herself as a goddess again totally isn't grown right.
>Rahne becoming a Lolive
Rahne's whole point was her fighting her super Catholic upbringing and learning to accept herself. Strong character does not mean she has to be physically strong or intimidating dude.
>rogue just becoming a southern Belle
I know it seems played out now but the whole "rogue's struggle to pick a side" was a big deal. Her dealing with ms marvels memories and powers and having to deal with the woman who's life she stole on a daily basis totally wasn't growth.
>casually skips Danielle

Okay dude

>>90109262
forgot kitty.
>kitty going from being a kid complaining about not getting her way to a big part of the team and a capable fighter in her own right totally isn't growth since you don't like her look.
Yeah okay

>>90108967
>>Her biggest enemy was an Evil Spirit Bear. A Native American mutant gets a racist stereotype antagonist.

tbf I think that was supposed to be like Dire Wraiths or something but then they realized they couldn't use them bc rights issues or something

>>90108967
>gets pissed a writer doesn't have women be invulnerable and perfect.
>writer is obviously sexist

I bet you're one of the people who got pissed about the joker and Batgirl cover with her tied up

>>90107297
was it ever explained how Xorn shapeshifted?
Supposedly, his power was having a Star as his head, while his good brother that appears in the current Uncanny X Men has a black hole for a head.

>>90109616
Also, last month when Mosaic entered Magneto's brain there were some Xorn memories inside

So... I don't think Marvel knows how it happened either

>>90106571
You just offended all Irish posters on here

>>90108393
muh dark pheonix

so tired of every x-men video being about the dark pheonix

>>90108734
And what's wrong with comics having fetish fuel. I love that Storm was a nudist, it made her fresh, pardon the pun

>>90109862

If my fellow kin keep looking like that curly'haired dork, I would hope so. Have some self respect.

>>90107312

>>90103200
>>90103068

None of these stories you mentioned have the esteem of the top 5 X-Men stories and most of them are completely unknown outside of hardcore Batman or DC fans. What is Shaman about? What is Venom about?

>>90109950
nothing at all. The other anon was saying that it made Claremont sexist and I was trying to say that he wasn't

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>>90108972
>>Gillen's run
>It was really short but it was sweet. I was really hoping to see what was going to go down with sinister and it's a shame it didn't last longer. also doesn't help that the run after his was God awful
Agree completely. Also it's inflated to me because I got those AvX Sinister issues when I was in Florida on my honeymoon so they have fond memories attached. I came home and got the rest of Gillens run and it got back into X-Books right in time for them to go to shit.

>>90110426
I just wonder what things would have been like if gillen wrote rightclops after avx. I mean avx was awful but if you didn't like the epilogue with cyclops being broken out of jail then you just have bad taste. I mean the first few issues of bedis's run was okay and I enjoyed the art but nothing happened.

If Gillen or Hickman got it after avx it could have been so good. I mean even the little of cyclops we had in Hickman's avengers stuff was better than all of the bendis stuff

>>90110733
>I just wonder what things would have been like if gillen wrote rightclops after avx.
It would have been amazing. Instead we got a revolution that went nowhere.

>>90110891
I would have been totally fine with marvel making cyclops the villain if they actually did it well instead of the "literally Hitler XD" they tried to push on us. Like a magneto tier villain written by gillen would have been legendary

>>90111100
I completely agree. It would have felt natural if done right, and Gillen would have done it right.

So... when do we get Gillen back?

>>90111365
we dont. Although I think with the latest things happening with IvX marvel realized that people agreed with Scott's side and didn't side with the inhumans so now they've been trying to backpedal. Hopefully this means that maybe they will take a different approach with the xmen now but it's marvel so it probably won't happen.

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>>90108753

kitty watches too many tarantino movies

>>90108604
Claremont laid the foundation for Psylocke's body issues years before Lee became the artist.

>>90110078
>What is Shaman about?
Shaman was the opening arc of Legends of the Dark Knight, a title so popular during its debut that even Marvel made a little jab/reference to it in McFarlane's Spider-Man.
>What is Venom about?
The original introduction of Bane's drug. It's kind of important within the context of the Batman mythos.

>None of these stories you mentioned have the esteem of the top 5 X-Men stories
Please, are you serious right now? The Dark Phoenix Saga, God Loves, Man Kills, and Days of Future Past are the only X-Men stories people bring up all the time. Not even E is for Extinction gets mentioned all that much.
And no, crossovers like Mutant Massacre, Fall of the Mutants, Inferno, and Age of Apocalypse are absolutely not "esteemed" regardless of their quality.

X-bump

Is anyone hopefull for generation X?

I want it to be good because i lile 2 members of the cast

>>90102503
Looks like the hellfire club

>>90116550
The premise is interesting, Mutants not good enough to be X-men but this book will fail under the weight of the Gen X name and not using vastly more popular young X-men.

>>90116812
Was Ellis run that good?
I only remember there was a lot of sex but that's it.

>>90094229
which anime is this?

>>90102467
>>90102503
Those costumes look really nice

>>90094229
>THOSE TINY HEADS.

>>90094526
Is this porn?

>>90075215
Ten, fifteen years ago people said one of the biggest problems for the comics was pre-image actually. They stopped making interesting characters and started making 'cool' looking drawings and then shoehorning them into the books with no backstory or personality.

Cable was a prime example. And love him or hate him, Cable's history and personality is a fucking cluster fuck. It's because in the very beginning, he was just a cool cyborg guy with laser guns and a glowing eye!

>>90116550
I really really want it to be good

The idea of the team being the "lovable losers" sounds interesting

I hope we get to see old "young mutants" (Dani or someone from the New Mutants or maybe Husk from the Original Gen X) acting as mentors and not just Jubilee.

This is a good oportunity to bring back forgotten characters.

Maybe we are lucky and get a new series like the underrated "New X-Men Academy" (and New Mutants Vol2)

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>>90119788
>he was just a cool cyborg guy with laser guns and a glowing eye!

Really, this is how a lot of the comics oldies started, just this cool dude sinking Nazi subs or punching out gangster because gangsters are bad dudes.

You didn't need to be a legacy/alternate future descendant/clone of some existing character, you could just be Joe Badass from the lost island, out to fuck up Evil and shit.

I think comics lost a lot when characters had to be folded into the Big Corporate Icon Hero's mythos, and this includes Cable.

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>>90119824
Which is why characters like Danielle Moonstar are good;
She doesn't give half a fuck about Wolverine or Cyclops or Xavier, she's not related to any of them, she isn't in any of their weepy bullshit drama, isn't trying to fuck any of them, she just wanted to hone her weird powers and go kick some ass.

>>90120035
Hopefully we get to see her again

She recently appeared helping Lady Mastermind with her M-Pox infection

>>90113821
She would, too.

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>>90074843
When they were doing cross overs.

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>>90118566
It's the best kind of porn.

>>90120035
Why doesn't she just use a gun or another one handed weapon? Seems awfully inconvenient having to use your foot to hold the bow with a broken arm.

>>90119788
By the 90's they were a more successful toy company then a comic book company, so they didn't care about writing as long as they had cool designs for action figures.

>>90123276

They were pretty "successful" at selling comics. Problem was they were selling comics to stores, not to readers. They were selling stickers, cards, video games, sheets, ANYTHING with their brand on it. The look and designs certainly became the most important thing.

>>90108753
But he deserved it?

>>90123498
Why does the black man deserve to be called a nigger? Mutants are the aggressive, hostile species.

>>90123562
It's the whole 'call me a name I'll call you one back!'

And frankly, that blacks are hyper-sensitive to being called nigger doesn't make it any different then it's just name calling.

What about Mike Carey's "No more mutants"?

worth it?

bump because this thread has been decent

>>90124523
it's a retread of everything from House of M to the Battle for the Atom, but it's pretty good as Baby's 1st X-Men comic since it introduces the reader to just about every character and concept that's important to the modern 2010's X-Men

>>90108852
Kurt Busiek is a hardcore O5 fanboy and advocated the cocoon thing.

>>90108287

Apocalypse's genocide pretty much guaranteed that most characters wouldn't have the opportunity to get into accidents that gave them powers due to either being killed, forced to become a refugee or never being able to get into a situation where the classic accident would grant you powers.