So does anger still get sales or not?

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>>89923474
>people bitch about Brian's Avengers every month, yet it sells fantastically
It sold decently. After those first issues of New Avengers it never sold "fantastically" again, even with all the relaunches

>>89923474
Do angry fans buy more comics than fans who get what they said they wanted? Probably.

The trick is to find that middle ground between getting fans so mad that they don't buy, and pandering to fans so much that they don't buy.

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New.

>>89923684
I think he regrets mentioning that.

>>89923684
Oh that is some serious backpedaling.

>>89923684
>CBR mods aren't even allowing any discussion of IvX #3 preview

Whoa, how bad did it get?

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>>89923684

>>89923474
In the past, angry fans would still have to go buy a comic to see what happened. But this is not the case any longer for most savvy fans.

More and more fans will just look up the spoilers online, or even better they will find a copy to download and read, instead of purchasing it. The old model for having to buy a comic to see what happens, even if you are angry about its current direction, no longer holds true. The more that fans realize they can look up spoilers or read for free, the harsher reality will be for these hack writers.

Ultimately they are not only hurting themselves in the short run but also the long run. A good many fans will decide they don't want to pay for something that might not aggravate them, and thus such stupid strategic choices by industry players are ultimately hurting the industry as a whole.

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>>89923832
Also remember this poll from last year?

>>89923814
Different editor.

There's a difference between riling up your entrenched fanbase to generate discussion/sales, and deliberately trying to unentrench them in a gamble to gain a new one.

>>89923953
Oh shit you're right, I didn't notice the different name at first.

>>89923895
>63% of answers are "no" and ranked as 1st
>"no" is placed in the middle of the graph so less observant people think it's the first, blue collum

Holy shit, how much are they paid for this kinda shilling?

>>89923891
The point is angering fans sell.


But the sjw stuff didn't.


Now they're going in their third era post sw. And going back to the old costumes and status qou.

Female thor is the only longterm success of the sjw era. Almost every other female book had low sales or eventually dropped from low sales.

>>89923895
I love how misrepresentive that looks.

>>89923474
Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy.

>>89923953
>>89923989
Brevoort still reblogged his answer tho.

>>89923474

Playing devil's advocate here. Creative work that has a sincere opinion is going to divide people. When done right, it challenges and may even change some readers' minds. But there will always be ideologues who will get angry. It's unavoidable, and it shouldn't be the top concern of creatives. Those who consume only what they know, what they agree with, are the ones missing out. Their intellectual world will always remain small, and it's no one's problem but their own.

This may not apply specifically to Brevoort and current Marvel, just your general question. For a creative, it's the wrong question to ask.

>>89923895
>the bars are arranged Yes, No, Maybe
>the titles are listed as No, Maybe, Yes, and not displayed on the graph itself

>>89923474
This is coming from the editor that admitted wanting to murder someone. I guess it works for such kind of person.

>>89924011
Honestly it's just CBR's dumb way of doing polls, they are always like that.

The graph is in the order they were listed (yes, no, maybe) and the bottom ranks them by percentage.

>>89924254
The problem is when you're relying entirely on anger to make sales you fucked up.

Getting people angry should be an ultimately unintentional thing on the side, not the main selling point.

>>89923684
Damage control!

>>89924348

Then it's insincere and crass, and can be criticized more successfully from that angle.

Maybe even the people being pandered to can pick up on this, and that's why things aren't selling.

>>89924254
>Creative work that has a sincere opinion is going to divide people. When done right, it challenges and may even change some readers' minds.
Yes, just like Zack Snyder's Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. What a great work that was.

>>89924484
>resorting to company wars
Did someone hurt you, Evanposter?

>>89924462
The people who its pandered to dont buy. While whiners buy until the women and blacks and gays come in.

>>89924620
He has a point though.
BvS was extremely controversy yet didn't make that much money expected.

>>89924484
>800 Million Dollar FLOP meme

I will not defend this movie's quality, but not even in a world of "Alternative Facts" is a movie that makes 800 Million a god damned flop.

>>89924711
>He

>people still pay money for comics
If this were the 90's I could understand. But for the love of God, the current year!

>>89924804
Shh, let him do his unpaid job.

>>89924683
Another day, another namefag filtered.

>>89924711

It wasn't made to specifically court controversy. It wasn't audience tested to death. The very personal vision of the director came through. I happen to hate his particular vision, but I appreciate that he was allowed to do that at all.

Sincerity is not a guarantee of a good work of art, but it's the only way for art to stake new ground. People who play it safe are not visionaries, test audiences are not taste makers, and true pioneers are often not appreciated in their time.

>>89924804
>a movie that makes 800 Million a god damned flop.
That's kind of what happens when the production and advertisement cost is more than the money it earned, a movie is not looking to make money, it's looking to make it's money BACK, if it doesn't make at least one third above the amount it was supposed to earn to make it back it's considered a flop by mos executives. It's why low budget movies can afford to have sequels even when they make shit at box office.

>>89924840
Another emotionally butt hurt retard.

>>89924620
>>89924804
>fell for the double irony meme
Jokes on you, I liked BvS!

>that poor namefag still answering to me despite being filtered
lol

>>89924956
>true pioneers are often not appreciated in their time
I'm sure Zack thanks you for that.

>>89925001
>backpedaling

>>89925011
>>89925011
Says the down right emotional clown mad at facts.

>>89925011
Faggot mad at facts.

>>89925011
>that poor namefag still answering to me despite being filtered
>filtering nameshits
My nigga.

>>89923474
Anger buying is a thing but anger does eventually turn to apathy. With Marvel, it happened later rather than sooner. What sucks is that the audience they've gone after isn't buying their comics. There's not a shred of vindication to be found.

>>89925157
The biggest reason is that contemporary social activists are intentionally impossible to please.

Do 10 impossible things before breakfast for their benefit and they'll complain it wasn't 11.

>>89925157
It also makes a lot less sense now that internet pirating is a thing.
Why buy and read a comic you hate, when you can read it AND deny the people that wrote it your hard-earned cash?

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>>89925091
And that made him so angry.

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>Pander to a demographic that doesn't even read, so much as buy, comics
>Realize you've alienated your original audience when you try to go back
>Forced entirely to rely on being so shit that people buy your stuff just to see how shit it is for themselves
No matter how bad you fuck up, you can always take comfort in knowing that at least you're not marvel

>>89925307
Is Marvel the Anthony Burch of comics?

>>89925011
Nah I do like BvS, my original comment was sincere but said in a way that sounded ironic. I really do think that making a product with all your heart, mind, and will leads to something that feels more real, so to speak. I felt like BvS was something worth defending.

Zack's approach of "I'll make something that I like, whether other people will like it or not!" approach is admirable, despite not making as much money as a safer approach would have. It's tough to find a proper balance though, since if you do too many of those and they end up not being profitable you end up bankrupt.

>>89925243
I did that with the shitty Squirrel girl comic when it's story timed here. I always jumped into the threads to see the new horrors in art but you couldn't pay me to have a copy of that shit near me.

I liked the SPOCK Spiderman story but dropped it and never looked back after the asspull on how Ock left and Peter came back.

>>89923684
That's Jordan White doing the damage control, Brevoort just reblogged him.

>>89924804

BvS flopped, Rebirth is a failure and CW2 was a massive success you heard me?

Rules of logic don't work here, you're in Marleltown now!

>>89924254
>Creative work that has a sincere opinion is going to divide people.

Yes, and creative work made mostly to stir shit and get people mad is also going to divide people.

>>89925539

Seems to me it's uniting people into not buying.

>>89923684

>Sigh

I want to smash their fucking teeth out

>>89925944
>their
He has headmates too?!

>>89925307
>Disney will probably gut the underperforming comics division as soon as cape movies go out of fashion
Marvel are fucked.

>>89926158
Nah, they're more than likely going to make comics digital-only. Cape movies will never go out of fashion in the immediate future so they have time to invest in video games, merchandise, etc.

>>89924976
I love hearing the new ways /tv/ tries to pretend movies flopped. Creative accounting! Advertising budgets! The profit doesn't take theater cut into account! No, it needs to make 1/3 over all of that!

/tv/ was a mistake. In your world, I doubt there was a single movie in history that actually made a profit.

>>89926234
>digital-only
It's said that they make even less than paper.

>>89926334
>implying those arent valid
im assuming /tv/ probably inflates those to meme-proportions like they do, but they are still costs desu

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>>89926334
I was just explaining to you why execs might consider a moderately successful movie a failure you reactionary fuck. A movie could make a decent earning and it would still be considered a failure in the eyes of the executives if it didn't make it's money back. You think there aren't a million movies I would prefer would've had a sequel rather than any marvel movie yet they didn't becasue of this criteria? Get your head out of your ass, anon.

>>89926334
Did you know that Marvel inflates comic sales by giving away comics for free and counting them as sales? The day I knew about this, I wondered if they do the same with live action.

>>89926334
>>89926413

I love how those only apply to the movies they don't like. Like it's well known in Hollywood that Disney spends more in marketing than the other four biggest studios combined but suddenly only DC movies have marketing budgets.

I had to post WB quaterly reports to some autist in another thread to prove him that Suicide Squad was a hit, I shit you not

>>89923684
>Civil War II is the best story they could possibly tell

>>89926466
Comics are tracked by number shipped to retailers, movies are tracked by actual money made. Movies have several actual tracking systems keeping track of tickets sold, not just the publishers' and retailers' self-reported estimates with comics.

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>>89926654
>several actual tracking systems keeping track of tickets sold
But which is the most trustworthy?

>>89926466

They don't but they have lied about budget's in the past

>>89926754
The GotG one, for instance.

Man, how can people support such a lying company?

>>89926469
If you use meme math for the MCU basically only Avengers, Avengers 2, and Avengers 2.5 made money.

>>89923684
>we make the best stories we can
Then your team is pathetically terrible at making stories.

>>89923474
I feel like this business model completely fails to take into account comic piracy. If they publish a book that pisses me off, but I feel like I need to know what happens anyways, why on earth would I pay money for it if I can just pirate it? Hell, I could even just look it up on wikipedia when it's over if I want to save memory on my computer.
Also, I think he's technically correct that anger is better than apathy, but the problem is that if I realize that all they're doing is trying to piss me off I'm going to get apathetic pretty quickly.