traditional animation looks better than flash animation. it's

>>89802446
I really really miss when animated films weren't all 3DCG. I liked toy story and such, but I've grown to truly despise it.

As far as flash goes, it's okay I guess. I'm not that picky when it comes to that. I'm more concerned with the art style in general, if that's a good way to put it.

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Flash animation is much more common because it's cheaper, can have its assets recycled, and easier to correct animation errors.

Most animations nowadays are funded by big corporations with loads of shareholders. These shareholders don't give two shits about quality or integrity that makes animations a respectable form of art like it was in the early 20th century, all they care about is having a cheap-to-make product that's highly profitable, nothing else.

>>89802446
You hit the nail on the head. Flash can actually be used well, mostly by independent animators like Psychicpebbles, but this new trend of emulating Seth McFuckingFarlane might be the worst thing to ever happen to Western animation

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>>89802681
the beauty of traditional animation was blood sweat and tears. it's a shame it's being used less and less.
>>89802491
cgi is good. but it's so overused now it's lost the magic of it.
>>89802539
it's sad companies care more about money than quality of art. I don't think flash is too bad but it looks so unnatural.

>>89802814
>it's sad companies care more about money than quality of art

Welcome to capitalism.

>>89802814
>the beauty of traditional animation was blood sweat and tears
If they could automate it and make it look the same I wouldn't think any less of it. It isn't the story behind the animation process I find attractive, it's what I see on screen. It's just a shame that what we get lately falls so flat in comparison to much of the older techniques. I hope that as technology further improves we might even be able to get back some of that crisp, vibrant artwork, and the way the movements flowed so naturally and had weight.

>>89802837
it's not just that. when's the last time animation felt awe inspiring? the art form to me has lost its touch.

>>89802875
definitely, take princess and the frog for instance, it can still be done efficiently and effectively look amazing. I think technology can't imitate what comes from the artist's heart though, like a piece of emotion goes into the work when it's traditional animation

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Don't forget to support independant animation if you don't want traditional animation to die.

>>89803017
what's this? looks neat!

>>89803017
This was done completely digitally right? Goes to show you can make good stuff on Flash/ToonBoom/TVPaint in the right mindset.

>>89802446
But you CAN animate traditionally in Flash though.
Flash only becomes a problem when you use every shortcut available to either as a crutch or to lessen your workload. The most obvious and awful looking instance of this are cartoons that use tweening instead of hand drawn inbetweens.
Plenty of companies use digital programmes alongside traditional methods in their cartoons nowadays. Even Studio Ghibli inks their films digitally though everything is drawn by hand on paper before being scanned.

>>89803027
https://vimeo.com/64386008
It's by a French independent studio. Since they got popular they did a 8 minutes scene in a CG film.

>>89803110
>done completely digitally right

[citation needed]

On the other hand:
http://laughingsquid.com/animated-trailer-for-french-comic-kairos-is-teeming-with-adventure/
>French animation company Studio La Cachette has created an amazing hand-drawn animated trailer for Kairos, a comic book by French artist Ulysse Malassagne.

>hand-drawn

>>89803182
hand drawn and beautiful. I don't think flash can give it that much fluidity. I like this trailer. looks epic

>>89803168
Looks really good. I am loving the direction it takes with movement, those rolls and jumps look so neat. I wish this makes more heads turn.

>>89802881
I really enjoyed Mob Psycho 100. There will always be passion projects like it but in a world that values profits, it's always going to be a race to the bottom.

>>89803259

Ah, I think he got the idea it was digital because some guy made a digital recreation of the Kairos trailer's first part with Blender's Grease Pencil. (Which is a pretty impressive bit of animation, too)
https://www.blendernation.com/2016/04/25/grease-pencil-kairos/

ITT: people who still think flash is the tool animators use.
In other news, Windows 98 is the most cutting edge operating system, biplanes are common military tech and the roman empire is still relevant.

>>89803182
From their facebook page (studiolacachette/posts/140097702841538):
>"Yes, we actually used TVPaint for the entire film, and as you guess, a little bit of AfterEffect for the compositing."

>>89803323
Ave Imperator.

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well while we're here. is my art any good? I posted on a diff thread but it's dead.

>>89803323
Tell that to Titmouse.

>>89803334

Cool, it's an impressive trailer regardless of what they used to do it. I wonder why that didn't turn up in search results for "kairos animation" for me though?

>>89803356
I'm no artists but it looks fine to me. Mouth and jawline could use work I guess?

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second sketch I made. any feedback is good.

>>89803375
I was gonna redraw tink. I think you're right, her mouth is weird.

>>89803365
I found it via Cartoon Brew.

>>89802446
Adobe Flash is good if you know how to use it well, like Wakfu. Flash is a powerful tool that is not to be trifled with by the ignorant. Traditional is more personal and homely, springier and fluid too. The harder work has a better payoff, imo.

>>89803384
I love it!

>>89802446
I think Atlantis put a great, unique spin on traditional by tracing over 3D. It looked awkward in a few spots, but the rest of it was gorgeous and probably saved a lot of time.

>>89804091
like 2.5D?

>>89804149
More like ultra-convincing 2D.

>>89804176
I think I can imagine that as a good alternative for traditional animation if it keeps a little bit of hand drawn. I feel like the expression the pencil is mightier than the sword is how I feel about traditional vs computer animation

>>89804091
>>89804176
Isn't that just rotoscoping?

>>89804270
With 3D CG instead of real people, yeah. But it allows you to get shots you couldn't get with rotoscoping, especially with non-human models.

>>89802446
>Disney won't make any traditional animated movies again for the foreseeable future
>Studio Ghibli is slowly going down the drain and many of it's staff left and their next movie is going to be CGI

Help us, Makoto Shinkai. You're our only hope.

>>89802446
Flash is just a tool. It's how people use it that you should think about. People can animate in flash and still follow traditional principles.

>>89804430
Too bad Shinkai's not 10% as good as Disney or Ghibli.

>>89804609
He uses CGI more then Ghibli does but his animation and backgrounds are still pretty good.

>>89803356
it's all wrong, everything is sideways

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>>89802446
fixed

There is still hope. Animators who worked at Disney in the late 90s/early 00s are now doing there own project on their side.
One of the most interesting ones is Klaus by Sergio Pablos.
There is also independents creators like Bill Plympton and Don Hertzfeldt or European like Sylvain Chomet and Michaël Dudok de Wit.
So, next time, instead of complaining on the internet, support them.

>>89803356
>>89803384
You need to stop chickenscratch
Make a lot of gesture drawing by using whole arm and chorcal or something that you can draw by side
Your linework will improve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8qqYEloRAM

>>89804450
No no all digital animation is tweening and the only way to do real animation is hand drawn ink on cellophane

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>>89803017
This looks like the a combination of furry anime that represents everything that's wrong with anime action sequences.

>>89804830
all disney renaissance movies were made on computer

>>89802446
>traditional animation looks better
>also vinyl sounds better than digital
You're fooling no one but yourself, grampa.

I like flash animation as a digital tool

But I am so fucking over the vector look.
And 3D is the exact same thing. I like the IDEA of using 3D as models, cameras, lighting, effects etc ie as a digital tool but I am so done with the look.

Anime, Inspector Gadget, and Gargoyles all look dramatically different. 2D has all the freedom in style

>>89803323
oh right
Adobe Animator®™©

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Nobody uses flash anymore but internet animators, what the fuck are all of you talking about?

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Friendly reminder that John K was created the first animated show in Flash

So does anyone on /co/ actually know what the fuck they're talking about or does everyone's knowledge of animation come entirely from parroting things they see on the internet?

>>89804837
This is now my favorite image.

>>89802446
traditional animation can be done using Flash, it's just that most Flash animations heavily utilize tweening. there's nothing inherent to the program that prevents traditional frame-by-frame animation

>>89805140
Do you?
Or did you want to play King of the Smug on a Finnish flipbook online blog?

>>89805065
post a gif to prove him wrong then anon if you are so sure.

>>89805100
yeah, everyobne uses toonboom and unity

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most animation done today is still done on paper
99% of it is inked and painted using digital
nobody uses a fucking camera for animation anymore because there's no reason to when animation software does the same exact thing but easier
all of the disney renaissance films had help from software in some way

>>89805140
Some of us do but we are in the minority.

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>>89805173
Can you believe it's Flash?

All tv shows are made in Toonboom

>>89802814
>I don't think flash is too bad but it looks so unnatural.
That's not so much an issue with flash as it is an issue with the animators working on the cheap.

>>89804844
Flash shit.
Only flip books are real animation.

>>89804091
Pretty sure the CG in Atlantis is cel-shaded. Other than that all the characters and effects animation are done in the usual 2D animation.

How do you buy Flash?

>>89805861
you have to have bank account

>>89803356
Her eye

The little horse show taught me that Flash can be used to great effect.

>>89805300

i hope Big Bad Fox will look even better.

>>89807008

but it havent improved since 5 years! everything is stilll flat as fuck.

>>89805300
Looks really good but the running looks off.

>>89802446
Traditional animation has been done for nearly a hundred years, building upon the thousand-year-old tradition of drawing still images by hand.

Flash is only slightly older than some of you, and has only been seriously used for episode- or feature-length animations in this millennium. Most flash-made shows look worse because they are worse - the animators either don't know how to make the best of the new medium, or are just using it as a shortcut on top of the old techniques.

Give it time.

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>>89802446
The best explanation of this problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GKZef8jWs

>>89804638
Oh shit you won

Hanazuki and Magisword are done in Flash. They both didn't look terrible at the very least.

>>89808635
This was... a pretty good video.

>>89802446
Every animated movie now is CGI. Sadly that's how things are going to be for the rest of eternity. You better get used to it

>>89809842
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/feature-film/preview-60-animated-feature-films-look-2017-146865.html
No.

>>89810213
if they're not by disney no one will give a shit.

>>89810684
It really doesn't matter as long as they are good
>>89810213
More than half of this are CGI tho

>>89810684
Only peoples who loves animation and want to support it, but it doesn't seem to be your case.

>>89802446
Depends on an artist/animator.

If Don Bluth were using Flash and knows how to animate through it, it would look amazing.

>>89810684

That's right, anon, move them goalposts! You can do it!

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The Moana 3D models don't do the concept drawings any justice whatsoever.

>>89802446
It's handicraft vs mass production

>>89810213
>MLP movie

jesus christ I feel bad for anyone bringing there kid to watch it in theater

also CG animals CG animals everywhere fucking furries mang

>>89811981
>jesus christ I feel bad for anyone bringing there kid to watch it in theater
Meh, it's just a pony movie. Can't be worse than the 80's pony movies

>>89802446
No shit flash animation is garbage.

itt people not understanding that flash is software and can be used to make normal traditional animation the same way people do on paper/cels

itt people who dont know quite a lot of animation made in flash is actually done traditionally


itt: tards

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>>89812490
Case in point

>>89811981

it was just zootopia, no one gave a shit about furries before, suddenly a good furry movie and people think it's flooding the market.

>>89804837
It's French though.

>>89802539
The only reason animation was generally higher quality during that time period is due to it being in theaters before the main attraction. And even then the producers were pieces of shit trying to get everything as cheap as possible.

>>89805094
The only reason CG looks like that is producers who are afraid of style. The people putting up money want safe bets to get a return in profits. That means following a cookie-cutter style so as not to scare off consumers.
Look at the newest Guilty Gear if you want to see what CG can be and not just what we usually get.

>>89802491
Cgi should just be used for vidya, It's one of those things hollywood should have realized back in 2007 but it didn't, golden age pixar films are good but if they were in 2d they would be just as good

>>89802539
I feel like we're in the 80s 2.0, i hope genndy ushers a 90s/early 00s 2.0

>>89816946
What is it?

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>>89818130
It's Chinese animated film inspired by ancient Chinese myths.

It's actually pretty good, and Studio Mir(TLOK, Voltron: Legendary Defenders) helped animate it. Here's a trailer with english subs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0h1ipZppqQ

Say what you want about the quality, Wakfu will never not look weird to me. I mean the artwork is beautiful but not so much the animation (with the exception of a few things which were just made to be rotated precisely like Nox's clock machine and the time-stop sequence of episode 1).

I think there's a lot of potential in full CGI, but very few true artistic types are the kind of people who can also work their way around a shader pipeline so it gets unrealized/lost in translation. Not to mention the consumer mentality around CGI is positively toxic. Not that western consumers are all too enlightened about traditional animation.

>>89815588
Fuckin' ouibs.

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>MLP is the last genuine theatrical 2D movie to be made in NA in the last 5 years
>Possibly the last chance of them being made period
Welp

>>89818938
>Mir
So it's shit then.

>>89820836
(You)

>>89820854
Mir's hit or miss at best.

>>89822496
Where have they been a miss?

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>>89802446
Isn't Tarzan all digital animation?

>>89804830
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or bait.

Everyone on this thread understands the difference between hand-drawn animation and rigged-vector based animation right?

They're as different to each other as CGI and Stop-motion are to both and each other.

You can do hand-drawn in digital softwares such as Flash, TvPaint and Toon Boom like this one did
>>89805300
But it's still animated frame by frame.

Meanwhile the movies spin-off series and shows like Wakfu are animated using vectors and tweeting.
Though I've heard Wakfu bought in some key-frame animation as well.

>>89805861
amtlib.dll

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How come Japan is still the only nation that still actively produces good 2D animation?

>>89823150
I was thinking the same, people thinks that things just draw themselves on flash. One thing is tweening arms and legs, other is drawing frame by frame, doesnt matter wich program.
>>89805300
This movie reached a new level combining that I think, or animator just got smarter at combinng tweening in a hand drawn animatio.

>>89823488
I'm guessing it's because most of the artstyles in Japanese animation can be taught and easily replicated by most artists there. They're quite simple when taking into account how things work in 3D space, since the only things that exist in anime are slight variations of front, 3/4, profile, 3/4 back, and back.
Whereas most western animators/cartoonists develop their own individual styles for their art, and most artists who have had the chance to create their own series or films have gone through very intense art college classes teaching realism.
Anybody can draw anime, but not everybody can draw a human.

>>89823709
You need to know how to draw humans to draw anime though. I'm not sure if you've seen the difference between anime artists who study figure drawing and those who don't but you're never more than a few clicks away from DeviantArt so the evidence is waiting...

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>>89823709
>anybody to draw anime
I have yet to see a western animator imitate anime properly. I doubt they could animate something you see in anime half the time properly.

>>89802446
My favourite animation style is Sailor Moon's. I've never seen anything as aesthetically pleasing.

>>89824178
do you like utena's animation style

>>89824221
what is that

>>89825490
I really shouldn't be doing you this favor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TQFlVcPyUA