What was the point?

"Titans" is a good book. Ignore Booth's art and you will see.

>>89696660
Thanks lord someone else thinks the same.

I like Titans. People should read it, even with that hard to eat art. Simple stories, but you feel some build of the group, characters are well depicted and they share some nice interactions. It's fun and comfy.

>>89696589
Will the whinging of Wallyfags ever end?

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>>89697792
The art doesn't even bother me that much to be honest. I've seen much worse.

Still, for Wally to go from being The Flash, trying to live up to Barry's legacy and eventually exceeding him to becoming MIA when Barry came back and eventually replaced by some useless nigger kid. Absolutely disgusting.

I never liked Wally's kids but I loved practically everything else.

>>89696589
Give it time for this pointless Watchmen/DC story crap to go through.

If Titans sells well enough (considering it's getting next to no advertising it's doing alright) Wally might get a book.

Barry may have fucked up everything with New 52 but Wally gave us Rebirth. Need to have hope.

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>>89696660

Yeah. I'm worried/interested in how it's gonna go once it gets into classic Titans shit

Abnett said the silver age stuff is what he's drawing from and I wanna see it!

>>89697924
Probably won't stop till he takes over The Flash book.

So never, because after the show and movie Barry's cemented as The Flash permanently. Even if they're shitty.

>>89698252
I love how much of a shithead fuckup Pre-Waid Wally was.

It's kind of endearing in a "What a tool" way.

Titans is better than the Flash book by a lot and it's basically been a Wally ongoing anyway. This is much better than what we have had since Infinite Crisis.

>b-but that Waid run with his kids

it was shit

>>89698562

it's the best

>>89696589
It's not like Wally was good to begin with.

>>89698658
The current flash book is so slow and clunky. At least Titans is competent.

Wally is being leveraged to sell Titans, which flopped huge post-Flashpoint and rendered Nighwing radioactive given how all the shit people cared about with regards to Nightwing got erased by the reboot/allowing them to pretend the Finches' character assassination of Donna never happened.

Affirmative Action Wally will be killed off as soon as humanly possible but they can't do it just yet because they are walking a thin line over how they brought the real Wally back and told the SJW to fuck off by doing so.

Dollars to donuts though, Black Wally and Barry will die in the denouncement of the Rebirth storyline, because of a need to have one major death plus a desire to make a permanent restoration of a legacy as a theme of the series. IE Geoff removing Barry from the field in order to restore Wally as Flash and Barry realizing that his return fucked too much up and the only way to fix it is to undo his death.

Indeed, I would not be shocked if they revealed the return of Barry was the "real" start of Rebirth in terms how Final Crisis was where Manhattan learned about the DC Universe and brought Barry back (not Zoom) to stop Darkseid, then fucked shit up even moreso when he started getting jelly at how good the DCU had it versus how shitty his universe was.

>>89698903
I feel like early on in the first arc it had some promise, little things like Barry feeling well characterized for the first time in a modern comic. But it just never picked up and I dropped it after the issue where the Wallys met.

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>>89698922
You're just fucking up everything, Barry.
And they call me the villain.

Don't get me wrong, I love Barry as the Flash but he was better off dead. Bringing him back for something other than a meaningful cameo just makes his sacrifice in COIE pointless, even if that was undone.

>>89698945
Totally agree with you. I'm probably going to drop the book after the current Rogues arc unless the series gets its act together big time.

>>89699045
To be fair, the whole "Barry caused Flashpoint" thing was bullshit.

Geoff basically jerking off to him retconning Barry's backstory via the dead mom/jailed father who died before Barry could exonerate him via claiming that it was impossible to fix and to even try would make things worse.

Given that Zoom is a pathological liar that lives solely to cause Barry pain and harm, Barry never should have bought a word he said.

>>89698922
You're delusional if you think they're ever getting rid of Barry.

He's here to stay. Dude's selling like gangbusters. Money is the bottom line and Barry makes more than Wally.

>>89698085
I don't care about Wally (either versions) but knowing that it upsets you that he was "replaced" by a black kid gives me solace.

Can't stand racist :/

>>89699045
It's not like Barry was even really dead after he died. He was constantly showing up in shit after he died .Legends of the DC universe, JLA Year One, Brave and the Bold, the original Flashpoint, elseworlds.

Dude was basically constantly showing up for years after his death. Which is probably one of the reasons Wallyfags were so mad. Dude got thrown on the backburner without so much as an acknowledgement and they acted like he never existed or mattered. Pretty brutal.

>>89699145
The black kid is a racist character.

People might've not minded it so very much if the character wasn't so damn bad. Might've gotten the same treatment Helena got after her race change (no one really cared because Grayson was great in part because of her).

Making him 12 again when all his friends are 20 was a big mistake, moreso than race.

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>>89699145
>:/

And they say that /co/mblr isn't real.

>>89699131
Barry doesn't actually make money. Especially when you consider how much TV Barry is a rip-off of Wally in terms of them grafting Wally's entire personality onto Barry.

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Johns still has the bullet of Wally's 3rd worst day.

lol jk it was flashpoint

>>89699299
You act like it's illegal for a character's personality to change to be more interesting.

I don't even get how show Barry is like Wally, either.

I mostly meant how Barry's sales are very good. The fact that his show is successful just kind of clinches that he's not leaving. Mainstream success has always defined heroes. It's why Batman and Superman are always gonna be Bruce and Clark.

>>89699332
Yeah, getting fridged by Snart in a tie-in book has gotta be an all time low for Wally.

>>89699332
Wally's third worst day was in Final Crisis when Barry came back.

He didn't know it at the time but that was Barry both creating and visiting him on the most catastrophic day in his life.

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>>89699392
I wish I knew if I should be laughing or raging.

>>89699434
It was not Zoom, nor Thawne, nor Kadabra who finally bested Wally West.

No, the only one who could truly undo everything Wally ever did or stood for was his own uncle and surrogate father, Barry Allen. Many tried to stop Wally, utterly defeat him. Only Barry succeeded.

>>89698922

It will be Wally who dies at the end of Rebirth.

They can't kill Barry again because it cheapens it to a level only current Marvel would do.

>>89699299
He's a turbo nerd which is what Barry was in the comics.

Quipping isn't a unique trait to Wally.

>>89699392

Wally and his family was supposed to have back ups in Johns/Manapul Flash. Kolins had started on pages. But then the back up experiment failed and Wally got fucked.

>>89699479
Wally's had enough shit happen to him. Bally on the other hand...

Then Bart can come back as KF or Impulse, none of that Barr Tor nonsense.

to be fair, Abnett Titans is better than the franchise, teen or otherwise, has been in a looong time

>>89699476
Considering it's Barry who doesn't let Wally die in Rebirth this just shows how delusional Wallyfags are.

I think Wallyfags might be worse than Damianfags

CWBarry doesn't have Wally's personality but he is stealing the shit outta Wally's stories

>>89699535

lol Barr Tor

>>89699515
It's not ilke being relegated to backups is a good place, either.

DC cancelled all backups and they didn't trust Wally to carry his own solo if it didn't have "The Flash" on its name. And, given his recent history, they were probably right.

I imagine they're still right. I doubt Wally would stay above 30K for more than a few issues if he had his own solo that wasn''t specifically "The Flash" book.

>>89699551
It's a meme anon. It's just funny that Barry was basically the cause of Wally's death and erasure from the universe.

It's been retconned away obviously but that was the case for 5 years.

>>89698922

Why are comics basically politics and PR now. I mean I understand why, but can't superhero comics just be nonsensical fun or serious stories not inspired by the need to appease?

>>89699565

I mean that Barry volume lasted 12 issues

>>89699594

it's only if you're online in silly threads like this. you could just read the books

>>89699090

I like the rogues arc and I liked the shadow stuff. I kind of like the dynamic between black wally and barry, but it has been objectively slow building.

>>89699585

I think the butthurt it has caused wallyfags is going to be permanent seeing as how there's no way they're going to kill barry again.

>>89699606

I don't mean online discussions, I mean that longer term story planning is determined by the need to appease multiple target demographics

>>89699622
Well yeah. At least for the next couple of decades. If comics survive that long we might go all cyclical once the audience is distanced from Barry's mainstream impact.

>>89698922
There's no real value in killing black Wally. Jon and Damian need a speedster friend. The only logical alternative would be one of white Wally's kids.

And they won't kill Barry. Johns is all about all the generations hanging out together.

>>89699633
Demographics have always affected money. Do you not remember the story about how Jim Shooter wanted to make Ferro Lad black but DC said no because they didn't want Southern shops to drop them? You have to think about these things and how it will affect your audience. That's how you make money.

>>89699732
They offed Bart. Did wonders for Tim, Kon, and co.

>>89699767

I would agree with this assessment except they're sticking more blacks in places instead of latinos or asians which will make up more of the population than blacks.

>>89699732
Black Wally is too old for that role

>>89699788
Black Wally is the same age as Damian. He was introduced as 12 and turn 13 just in time to be a Teen Titan like Damian.

>>89699785
I don't necessarily agree. There's Asians in stuff like New Super-Man and Gotham Academy. I can't really think of that many new or newly changed black characters. That's more of a live action trend.

>>89698252
I believe he's talking about the late Silver Age and the 70's revival, which is where Mal Duncan and Bumblebee and that psychic girl whose name I've already forgotten are from. It's a highly underappreciated era of Titans history.

>>89699815
well I feel silly

he's not written that young at all

Why the hell are Wallyfags treated like shit?

Pretty sure if other characters got thrown to the wolves, their fans would be fucking livid.

>>89699840
They've had no idea to write him since they introduced him. The character is all over the place.

>>89699183
He's far better now that he's being developed into his own character. He shows some echoes of how Wally was in Born to Run.

>>89699854
But don't you see anon, they put him in a shitty team book that no one has cared about in the history of comics.

He's right where he should be!

>>89699782
Mostly because he had grown to become cancerous. He was brought back like a year or two later once someone had a plan for him (though obviously it didn't pan out, I'll always wonder what Johns might have done pre-Flashpoint if that Flash run was allowed to happen).

>>89699840
I think he's mostly fine. It's Jon who is written poorly. He acts like a preschooler.

>>89699881
if that's true, then that's where all Flashes belong

>>89699862
Right, which is weird. The second they actually retcon everyone to go "See, this piece of shit you hate isn't actually your Wally!" the go to trying to write him actually close to old Wally again.

He's also just generic smack talking black kid in Teen Titans.

Dude's all over the place. It's a shame they couldn't just delete him. The magic of being black I guess.

>>89699923
Johns couldn't write Bart to save his life. The dude's done it a dozen times and his Bart has literally never been good.

>>89699854
Because people got really up in arms about a race-change for him.

Then when DC decided DCYou was a mistake they decided to bring OG Wally back to appease the Wallyfags.

Also you're wrong. I'm not happy with Wolverine being thrown to the wolves. But you don't see me making threads about how Laura and Old Man Logan suck.

>>89696660
>good book. Ignore Booth's art

Why would anyone want to ignore the art in a comic book

>>89699939
Being black didn't stop them from deleting Jenni and she was actually a good character. But I don't terribly mind black Wally these days. Maybe he'll grow on me eventually.

>>89699949
I think some of the later stuff was better, mainly Lo3W and Adventure Comics. He was too bratty in Flash Rebirth and the ongoing after it though.

>>89699984
The aesthetics are ugly but the composition is generally readable. What I dislike is when he does diagonal panels for no fucking reason. I guess he thinks they look dynamic or something but it's just shitty.

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>>89696589

>Barry Flash is DC's second best selling hero after Batman
>All Wally fags can do is cry about it

Get fucking REKT OP

>>89699956
>Then when DC decided DCYou was a mistake they decided to bring OG Wally back to appease the Wallyfags.

That was part of it but it was also the easiest way to dial back the New 52 a bit.

>>89699985
Times have changed, and rather quickly. It was also the double whammy of killing a black character and "replacing" them with a white character, as would've been the case with the Wallys.

>>89699956

Laura's fine being Wolvernine for a while. She was a natural legacy with years of build up. The problem is she came at the same time as the minority legacy invasion.

Riri is so bizarre to me. Iron Man is arguably the most popular hero in the world right now. Replacing him with anybody is so stupid that I have to believe that Marvel's comic division is run by literal retards

>>89700066

People tried to drum up controversy behind the Wallys but nobody cared

>>89700095
Iron Man is not a popular comics character. His second book was selling in Captain Marvel levels despite Bendis on it. He is not important to comics, only outside media. Marvel tried and failed to force him on comics readers and no one fell for it.

Riri is bizarre because they already fucking had Lila sitting there there.

>>89700110
Right, because they didn't replace black Wally.

DC made the right PR move even if it's fucking awful for the comics.

"Yes, I'm Iris West, this is my nephew Wally West and my nephew Wally West. My Friend/Partner Barry Allen trained both of them as Kid Flash."

Like everything about them is so transparently awkward. Black Wally really just should not exist. We don't need another run of Barry raising "Wally."

>>89700126
>Riri is bizarre because they already fucking had Lila sitting there there.
<Bendis
>Knowing about comics

This is the man who made Iceman gay. Dude has no idea what's going on and just does SJW shit to do it for positive press.

>>89699949
I'll agree with you there. Bart's always been obnoxious. At least he had the quickest Flash run.

>>89700126
>Iron Man is not a popular comics character.

Not compared to the real big guns but by issue 12 of the last run he was still selling over 50k. Making him one of Marvels top sellers behind just Spider-Man, Black Panther, Strange and Deadpool

Riri's run will do worse numbers than International Iron Man

>>89700204
I feel like that's more Bendis than the character, but even considering that bump he could only carry that one book. Riri won't do well but they aren't really that concerned with the long run. To them it's still worth it for the initial spike alone (though with the constant relaunches they are diminishing their returns there). I don't necessarily agree that they're right to do it, but I see the logic of a shakeup.

>>89700155
Bendis didn't "make" Iceman gay, he only wrote the outing scene.
Stan Lee made Iceman gay in 1962, when he wrote him as a homo.
Read the fucking comics before you get so butthurt and post about them.

>>89700298
That's a very generous reading of a panel that clearly was meant to to show how young he was compared to the others.

But anyway the logical thing would have been to make him bi so you don't lose the romances people like but you can do new shit too if you want. Though Bendis is so dumb he seems to think bisexuality is just "half gay"

>>89700298
Is this some kind of weird joke?

Or is your entire experience with Iceman literally that one panel where he doesn't gawk at Jean? Because later on in the same series he's hot for her like everyone else.

>>89696589
>Titans
>a shitty team book

Fuck you and your shit taste OP.

>>89700322
Most LGBT people hate bisexuals. Bendis is trying to score points with that crowd so bisexual isn't going far enough.

>>89700335
It's a shitty Waid homage. A bad terminal velocity on its best day.

Regurgitating Waid's stories with the Titans instead of Wally's actually supporting cast, with Booth art instead of Larroca, is a tragedy.

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>>89699594
>but can't superhero comics just be nonsensical fun or serious stories not inspired by the need to appease?

Maybe if they made it primarily for children again.

>>89699923
Jon is extremely sheltered and is younger than Damian. I find his wide eye naivety charming.

>>89699183
>Helena got after her race change

I am afraid to ask...

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>>89701175
They made her delicious chocolate

Is Titans any good? Almost all of Rebirth I've read is about bringing characters back to their roots and fan service with no real plot in the books.

>>89701365
Its first arc is about Wally using the power of friendship and going REALLY FAST. It also has the closest semblance of hints towards the overall Rebirth plot of any Rebirth book, and even then it's mostly just hints.

Booth's art is eh at best but he does neat stuff with Wally going fast and the women look hot. Abnett is solid at his worst.