Wonder Woman #15 Storytime

>>89403020
>>89402985
>you were imagining it the whole time!

The only occasion where I've seen this work well (and not be a fake out) was the movie Identity.

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Nice page.

>>89403043
>image during a storytime

15 issue, holy fucking shit
Someone tell him this is not manga

>>89403073
What is with that nose?!?!

>>89402985
Lewd

>>89403131
Pretty sure even manga moves faster than this.

>>89403100
>thinking a single issue will reach the image limit

>>89403187
It's the Wonder Dykes.

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Next:
>“GODWATCH” part one! Since the moment Wonder Woman arrived in our world, Godwatch has been waiting. But who are they, and what do they want? Diana’s journey to the truth continues with the origin of what may prove to be her greatest enemies.

Then:
>“THE TRUTH” part two! As Wonder Woman picks up the pieces of her shattered psyche, Barbara Ann Minerva walks into the devil’s lair to defend her…or is she being led into Godwatch’s trap?

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The end, hope you enjoyed.

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>>89403100

>>89403139
it has to fit in the frame?

>>89403291
I guess this just goes to show writers should never return to old series this is masturbatory, kind of mean-spirited, and worst of all it's boring as fuck

>>89403131
The way they persist to jump from one arc to the other every issue instead of telling one story at a time is infuriating.

>>89403366
that, or just put out 2 WW books. or maybe the 2 storylines will eventually converge

>>89403177
it's still annoying especially when you use an auto-image enlarger.

>>89403291
I'm confused. Why does the writer keep doing these alternating stories?

Not going to read it.
Did they explain anything relevant about the whole "it's all fake lmao" yet, or it was just a decompressed as fuck story that tells nothing?

>>89403291
literally who

Odyssey of the Amazons: >>89403457

>>89403949
A Minotaur named Ferdinand from the old Rucka WW series.

Wasn't interesting and I rather get Milan back.

>>89403492
deal with it fagzilla

>>89403011
Jenny Frison's variant covers have been impeccable

>>89403011
Why can't this be the art for the who issue? It's 10x better than the pajeet Diana the main artist draws.

>>89404903
Because she's a pinup artist and can't draw actual comic books

>>89402985
that's my fetish

>>89402985
Dropped this at issue 4, came back now, still slow as molasses. I miss Azz's bullshit

>>89404982
>Because she's a pinup artist and can't draw actual comic books
I've only ever saw her on covers. Did she actually ever made comics?

>>89405282
Looking at the DC wiki she's only been credited with covers. Her deviantart looks like it's mostly covers as well.

DC needs an "Ultimate" universe in which Azzarello's Wonder Woman is canon.

This is utter bullshit. WW is a canonical mess. Rebirth just effed her up good. The person at DC who allowed this rubbish to happen and mess the character up herself so badly needs to have his head examined. The only problem with Azzarello was the darkish tone to the amazons. Not Diana. Not the God family. Diana was Wonder Woman and her supporting cast had personality, character and far better motivations and histories than these characters Rucka just recycling in the most meh way.

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>people seriously defending the Azzarello run as some kind of monumental achievement in originality

>>89402985
Why don't they draw WW like this on the inside of the book?

>>89405666

it was pretty good with great art, which for WW is something exceptional, and the first time many people gave a fuck about WW.
Would import the omnibu if it existed.

>>89402985
I can fap to this. In fact I will fap to this.

>>89404812
>I'm not new I've been here since winter break

>>89405979
>and the first time many people gave a fuck about WW

Only because it was nu52 and considered a jumping on point. Wonder Woman was great before that, casuals just didn't know that because 'hurrrr comics r scary! too much history!'

>>89406134
Is rebirth not different?

>>89402985
oh boy a "you were crazy the whole time" story

>>89406134

wonder woman was not great before, good wonder woman comics are very rare

>I'm making a single unified timeline that integrates everything!
>But only my characters from the old run are going to be relevant! And the New 52 was mostly bullshit!

Thanks Rucka

>>89405554
Nah, the previous run was literally Zeus-wank. Zeus fucked Wondy's mom and a shitload of other women, then impregnated a redneck with himself and now everyone has to run around with his infant self and protect him from the well-deserved wrath of his wife.

>>89406415
>literally

>>>/tumblr/

>>89405979
The best visual part of Azz's run was the part where First Born extinguished Hades's head candle. So basically when the entire panel was black and Chiang's art wasn't on display.

>>89403291
Hey, hey! It's Ferdinand! You liked Ferdinand, right? This makes you excited, am I right? Huh? Anyone?

>>89406438
>2017
>stll being bumbothered by "literally"
You should literally off yourself, buds.

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>>89403011
The Frison Wonder Woman and the Middleton Aquaman covers are honestly the best set of variants I've ever seen.

>>89406134
>Wonder Woman was great before that

Wrong.

>>89406458
It was not even Chiang's art in that issue, stupid nigga

>>89403139
It's Greek.

>>89406498
>current year

>>>/suicide/

>>89406538
Goes to show you how unmemorable Chiang was.

>>89406576
You don't remember, but I do
Guess it evens out and you can carry on being butthurt

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>tfw I saw Marstonfags complaining that she was "macho" in this when the whole point of Marston's berserk WW was in fact "being destructive like a man" and it's a plot point how she's acting out of control and like the First Born while she thinks otherwise

Sometimes I can relate to people who have to defend Snyder because they don't get basic obvious stuff and overreact to stupid shit, even though I don't like Snyder myself

The one thing I liked about Azz's run was that everyone had a personality. No one has a personality in these new runs. Diana is supposed to be thousands of years old and she acts like fell off the turnip truck and would be distracted by a pair of shaken keys. She's not an idiot. Why write her as such? Why are these characters so boring. Candy is dull. Trevor is dull. But they don't have to be. Call me an Azz fag. I don't care. At least Azz's run kept me reading. This....? I am disappointed with each issue.

>>89406642
*because other people don't get

>>89406588
I wish I was butthurt, but Chiang's art is incapable of provoking strong emotions.

>>89403845
Because there's two artists since it's bimonthly, and it's more important that the art be consistent in trade form, when each storyline is collected seperately from the other.

>>89406677
Sure, Mr. Finch

>>89406195
As a jumping on point no, it's the same concept.

But the important distinction is Nu52's creative direction was "Shake it up! Fix stuff that isn't broken just to be different!"

Whereas Rebirth's creative direction is "The old way was more famous, let's just be true to our history."

>>89406642
It doesn't matter if people get it or not, if they don't WANT whatever it is they're supposed to be getting.

>>89405666
Standards for Wonder Woman comics are just that low.

>>89406783
>the old way

*the post-crisis way

>>89403360
the lesson is kicking him out in the first place created a bigger mess (heinberg and aa). putting him back after a decade didn't improve the situation.

>>89406811
>they complain about stuff that were in the original conception that they defend

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>>89403153
this bitch got a stand

>>89406495
Yes, actually

>>89406783
Azzarello's run wasn't trying to fix shit. It just told a very new and different take on Wonder Woman. That's why it was good unlike this fanfiction shit Greg is putting out.

>>89406783
>"Shake it up! Fix stuff that isn't broken just to be different
Wrong you faggot. That's what Rucka is doing and it's incredibly fucking dull. What we're getting right now is your precious "old way" and it's fucking boring.

Azz just decided to tell an interesting story instead of sperging over not muh like you and Rucka.

>>89405979
There's an absolute edition coming out if you're into those

>>89407554
what they mean by that is "they thought the old stuff was lame and so they changed it"

which is partially true, and also actually needed and effective

it's what is behind every reboot, including the "old way" which is just post-crisis because these fags don't bother to pick up actual old comics

except for Rebirth, which is more of an apology to post-crisis fags who cried for 5 years

>>89407822
>"they thought the old stuff was lame and so they changed it"

There's a lot more to it than that.

The vast majority of things that the Nu52 changed weren't even "stuff they thought was lame", it was just "Stuff that we've done for a long time, so we're not going to do it right now, because we want to convey the idea of newness"

For example, there's nothing wrong or unpopular with Lois and Clark, but they broke them up and did Clark and Diana just because it would be experimental and shocking. Same deal with Barry and Patty instead of Barry and Iris.

The problem is that "new" and "good" are not synonyms.

Another problem is that the whole reason Post-Crisis continuity is as beloved as it is, moreso than any other era for DC, is specifically because had a long time to look at past history and find the best ingredients for the stew that is each character.

The Nu52 didn't do that. It was rushed.

>>89408252
>For example, there's nothing wrong or unpopular with Lois and Clark, but they broke them up and did Clark and Diana just because it would be experimental and shocking.

lolno
there's nothing experimental about Clark and Diana
And they did it because they wanted to do a Injustice-like storyline, that went nowhere because the pairing proved popular and they decided to milk it

>>89407390
>That's why it was good

This is a shared universe character that's existed for 70 years. A thing that is "good" in a vaccuum but unrecognizably different in the context of the character's wider history is not automatically a thing that "deserves to be the mainstream canon version"

>>89408252
>Another problem is that the whole reason Post-Crisis continuity is as beloved as it is, moreso than any other era for DC, is specifically because had a long time to look at past history and find the best ingredients for the stew that is each character.

Plus people are so young they never remember the hiccups and retcons involved, just the nostalgia bits

>>89408298
comics aren't mainstream

>>89408290
Injustice came out like 2 years after the Nu52 started.

Post-crisis is "beloved" because it was the entry point for the majority of the now bitter oldfags and because they didn't backtrack after 5 years of people complaining

>>89402985
>In another universe Crazy Jane is WW
I would read that.

>>89408319
If I said "The Earth-0 version" instead, would that calm your autism?

>>89408330
I didn't say they were copying Injustice, I said they wanted a story that would be similar to Injustice

>>89407390
>new
It was god wank like alot of older runs.

>>89408290
Also, a lot of the New 52 was not experimental

>>89408347
Pretty much. Everyone likes to ignore the countless retcons and Zero Hours...

>>89408391
>alot of older runs

not even post-crisis had so many runs that focused on the gods... that's typical of people who read only the best stories that "coincidentally" feature the gods

and the funny thing is that the other one more focused on the gods was Rucka's

>>89408404
It was compared to Rebirth.

>>89408368
>similar to a thing that doesn't exist yet.

I know what you're trying to say, it's just that the words you are using are retarded. injustice isn't even the most famous example of a Clark x Diana story. More people would think of Kingdom Come first.

>>89408487
Everything is experimental compared to Rebirth

>>89408508
For one, the pairing only happened 1 year later.
And two: Injustice was already being developed at that time.
The people behind the story were Didio and Johns so they knew about it.

Also, I mentioned Injustice because it would be closer to Injustice than to Kingdom Come.

>>89408547
The Nu52 doesn't have Diana egging Superbro on as he takes over the governments of the world, so how is it closer to Injustice than it is to Kingdom Come where they just plain get together and have a baby at the end?

>>89408649
>The Nu52 doesn't have Diana egging Superbro on as he takes over the governments of the world

IT WOULD HAVE
That's why I said it went nowhere

It almost happened when Superman and Wonder Woman go to the middle east and punch arab fucking shits and then Batman and Lex are all worried about the pairing and Booster Gold comes from the future telling they can't stay together

But the story was dropped

>>89408695
Yea and even the beginning of justice league Wondy was egging supes about why doesnt he do more.

>>89408695
>IT WOULD HAVE
>That's why I said it went nowhere


Oh come on, that stupid subplot from Trinity War? You took that seriously? Even the story itself forgot that was supposed to be a thing considering it was only mentioned in like one issue and obviously never came true even though they didn't break up. It's not like it was a legit possible future that people worked hard to prevent, they just fucking ignored it.

>>89408756
It was on the edge of happening and Didio even said in an interview how "Wonder Woman is royalty so she would try to solve the world's problems her way"

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>>89408649

Dude, i don't know if you read Kingdom Come, but KC wasn't just about Superman and Wonder Woman getting together and having kids. That was just added at the last minute with little sense to give Superman a happy ending.

KC was about Wonder Woman being a battle-hardened and cold bitch that manipulated Superman into coming out of his exile because she wanted to use his powers and influence to war against the new reckless meta-humans in her bid to reclaim her status as the amazons' chosen warrior. She's constantly pushing Superman into agreeing with her murderous intents and methods, with Superman being appalled by how much his friend Wonder Woman have changed over the years.

This terrible characterization ended up influencing tons of other works like Frank Miller's later works, Superman: Red Son, Injustice: Gods Among Us and so on. Including her Nu52 portrayal outside her book.

Hell, KC has been milked so hard that the last few years of the pre-Nu52 continuity was all about Max Lord trying to prevent KC from happening in the main universe thanks to the appearance of Magog who became a JSA member.

>>89408756

Trinity War originally was going to be an event centered on the actual Trinity, more precisely SM/WW relationship due to the world's concerns that would lead to their terrible break-up thus setting a larger war.

And the anon who started this discussion pointed out that Geoff Johns' initial plans was dropped to the pairing popularity.

>>89408873

Even in Kingdom Come Superman and Wonder Woman's super-baby is of grave concern for the couple. That's why they asked old man Bruce to become the baby's godfather, because they feared the child would grow up alienated from humanity due to having to godlike parents.

Not that old man Bruce is the best example of what it means to be human, but that was a point made. He did help diffuse the meta-human war, after all, and he was the only person that managed to put some sense into Wonder Woman. So there's that.

>>89408873
>manipulated Superman into coming out of his exile because she wanted to use his powers and influence to war against the new reckless meta-humans in her bid to reclaim her status as the amazons' chosen warrior.

I have read Kingdom Come and that feels like the premise of a research paper a college student would write about it to make scenes where Diana is barely more than a background character sound more important than they were on the surface.

>>89408873

The discussion started because an anon said that not everything done with The New 52 was for the sake of experimentation and that SM/WW isn't something new. That this pairing was born out of Johns desire to explore an "Injustice-like" story with the characters.

>>89409002

I know that Wonder Woman, like every other character in the story, was nothing more than a prop for Superman, because the story was about Superman first and foremost.

But that was Wonder Woman's arc and actions in the story. If you read the complementary stuff you learn that Wonder Woman became a disgraced and exiled amazon for failing her duty in bringing peace to Man's World. That because of this Wonder Woman's desperate and gave up bringing peace to the world through peaceful means deciding instead on doing it through violence by any means necessary, but that her own influence (which is in disgrace) and powers aren't enough. She needs Superman.

And in the comic itself she's the one to bring Superman out of his exile, she's the one constantly pushing him and others that joined him to action, she's the one always pushing for a more extreme reaction.

>>89403043
>being a dick

>>89403177
>being an unrepentant dick

it's not about image limit, you fuck
it's about not interrupting the narrative

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>>89403059
>bricks from both sides not aligned

>>89409022
I'd like to see an interview where it's stated that Johns is the one who came up with the Superman/Wonder Woman idea, and this isn't just another one of those "It's all Johns' fault!" misconceptions where people thought he was an editor or creative director for the Nu52 when he never was and most of it was forced on him against his will.

Like how Wally is his favorite Flash but EVS and Didio talked him into bringing Barry back, and he agreed to it 'cause he thought it would lead to a Flash Family book, and how Flashpoint was meant to be just a regular Flash storyarc, not a Crisis Reboot, but it was commandeered from on-high, but half the internet insists "Everything in the reboot is all Geoff's fault, it was his idea! Jim Lee who? Bob Harras who? Diane Nelson who?" because they heard he got promoted to "Chief Creative Officer" and don't know what the fuck that means. (Hint: It means he consults on the TV and movies, it's not a fucking editor role, the first time he's ever had one of those is Rebirth, which...what a coincidence, revolved entirely around fixing stuff the Nu52 broke)

>>89409294

We know for a fact that it wasn't Geoff Johns, but Jim Lee who pushed for SM/WW hard for the reboot.

I even think Johns was trying to kill as fast as he could, but i can't say for certain because that's my hunch.

But Johns did push for this weird "Injustice-type" story with them before having his plans changed by editorial thanks to the buzz JL #1... which issue was where SM and WW kissed? Well, thanks to the buzz that issues generated.

>>89409117
>If you read the complementary stuff

I feel like giving a shit about all those bios they wrote for the bit players are like calling a director's commentary essential canon. It was just Waid and Ross wanking off to how lever they think they are. If all that prep work was so important, it would serve a relevant purpose in the plot beyond "this is why the costume of so-and-so who only shows up as an extra in group shots looks like this now"

>>89409374
Okay so that confirms what I've been trying to say this whole conversation:

Geoff didn't come up with SM/WW. It was not done "to tell an Injustice-like story", it was done to be Not-Lois. Being different for the sake of being different. That's what matters most.

If AFTER THE FACT, Geoff Johns comes in and goes "Well if I have to write about this, lemme think...here's an interesting avenue I could take the story down", then fine.

But you cannot call that "the reason why it was done."

Especially if he then pussies out and DOESN'T ever actually take the story down that avenue.

>>89409390

Well, that's fair. I kinda agree with you. We see very little about any other characters who isn't Superman in the plot.

For example, Batman's son, Ibn, who was infiltrated in Lex's group and proved instrumental in the plot, wasn't even named in the plot or shown to be working for his dad.

Everything about him was told in the bios.

>>89409467
I'm pretty sure in the Legion of Doom's boardroom meeting where we see butler Billy Batson for the first time, there's a narration box that gives Ibn's name and backstory as Bruce/Talia's kid.

But yeah, you'd never know he's a mole for the good guys.

If you're gonna right a comic about a crazy person with false memories, superpowers and a pissed off ancient magic origin you could have at least got Mike Baron to write it instead of this drab pish.

>>89409467
>We see very little about any other characters who isn't Superman in the plot.
And that is a major flaw with KC.

>>89403845
He wanted Nicola Scott to draw the Year One story since a WW origin was something they wanted to do for a long time and she couldn't draw two issues monthly on such a short notice (presumably, Rucka was put on the book pretty late). So he wrote two stories for two different artist. It's a mistake to keep alternating storylines after Scott was done though. As if the pacing isn't fucked up enough.

>>89409923
The Year One story isn't done yet.

>>89403131
it's more "two miniseries running parallel"

>>89406134

Perez's run was good. As was Rucka earlier run.

That's about it for in continuity WW. Rucka's new run is shit and lame, and completely retcons Azz's run, which was at least fun.

>>89403360
I actually have to agree with this. The Idea that she's never been home EVER pretty much disqualifies most of the post crisis continuity from being back. Really has kind of soured me on this.

>>89410544
Ok what about those were actually good? What did they do for Diana? Asking as someone who has never read them.

It just baffles me that nobody seems to be interested in following up what anyone before them does. In some ways this story is kinda good from a perspective of
>Diana is a paradoxical mess

>>89410548
>most of the post crisis continuity from being back

it was never back
it's Rucka's own lite version continuity that counts

You will probably never see any of the OC characters from the post-crisis runs that weren't made by Rucka. With the exception of Philippus.

>>89410873
>it's good if it points out something metatextual while still making a worse mess

no

post-crisis runs changed a lot of stuff each time, but they never retconned the previous ones away claiming they were lies

>>89410909
Did you miss what the snake said? Being a lie doesn't mean it didn't happen.
>>89403207

>>89410909
This. Diana is not Donna that has a fuckup of different origins.
Each writer would come up with different supporting casts and villains and kinds of stories, but the continuity was never fucked.

>>89410946
No, I dropped the book

>Rucka is now using alternative facts

>>89410946
The snake didn't say that at all
Besides
>It happened. In her mind!
No thanks

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Let's HAWKMAN this shit up.

There's nothing wrong with her being a clay child created by the Greek Goddesses for Hypollita. Except it's not grimderp enough for their movie franchising, apparently,

Making her one of Zeus' uncountable bastards is rather shitting on the whole "feminist icon" thing, whatever the editors have construed that to mean at this point.

All on top of the fact that very few people really care enough about Wonder Woman to throw money at her. She's primarily there like Cyborg/Jon Stewart to prevent the whole JL affair from being the slightly homoerotic adventures of Big Guys.

>>89404755
Wasn't he technically not a Minotaur because he wasn't from Minos? Didn't he once say that by that convention he would be the Kinotaur?

>>89411533
>There's nothing wrong with her being a clay child created by the Greek Goddesses for Hypollita
It's boring. Never actually meant anything.

>>89408252
>moreso than any other era for DC, is specifically because had a long time to look at past history and find the best ingredients for the stew that is each character.
Boy that wasn't true at all, Post-Crisis was a huge mess when it started.

>>89411533
What is even the purpose of your post?

>>89403059
Thank you anon.

>>89412837
Boring is subjective but it's at least more original than yet another child of Zeus. It would've been more interesting if they went with any other god (or goddess).

>>89413102
>What is even the purpose of your post?
Shitpost

>>89412843
This is very true. There were some early gems but the universe itself didn't really settle in until around Zero Hour. Similar to what we're getting now with Rebirth.

>>89413590

I liked the idea that Hades was her papa.

>>89410876
Doesn't change the the fact it's made me little unhappy given he's shown diana having flashbacks to the post crisis continuity effectively putting on the same level as the new 52 one.

Headcanon wise I'm just trying to ignore it and pretend it's to "hasn't been back since it was sent into another dimension at the end of rucka's last run"

Actual canon wise I'm wondering how it fits in with Donna over in Titans as according to their last issue Donna was raised by the Amazons from since she was 7 and the Titan's Jet was made by them.

>>89416303
Donna will NEVER EVER make sense

>it's an Azzarello fags bitch about Rucka undoing his mess episode
I hope Rucka doesn't stop until every panel of Azz's shit is gone.

I don't actually think his run was shit, it just should've been an Elsewords and not her canon story

>>89416443
Sad

>>89403360
Who is it mean to, other than Azzerello, who was mean to all previous Dianas and Amazons?

>>89410873
Dunno about Perez, but Rucka's original run was twisty, philosophical, did very interesting things with the gods (lots of divine politics!), had a great supporting cast for Diana, and brought itself to a heartbreaking but beautiful conclusion that sums up Diana's importance. Great stuff. Can't wait for all three volumes to be published.

This is fucking bad. This is just shitty fanfiction at this point. Is this book even selling? I can't imagine anyone wants to read this.

>>89422868
I like it, anon. Good stuff.

>>89422868
>Is this book even selling?

Yes, and I think it's been getting four out of five start reviews in some places.

>>89422868
You just have shit taste. It's great.

>>89411533
I liked Morrison's take on it, even though his earth one book wasn't great. He incorporated both Clay origin and bastard child into her origin story.

>>89424956
Great doesn't mean moving at snail's pace and writing a straight forward story with no twists.

>>89406495
Incredibly. I've been waiting for him since Rucka returned.

>>89425215

Can't wait for him to be as disappointing as everything else about this run. I actually used to like Veronica Cale and I can't stand her in this book.

>>89402985
The alternating between the two arcs is killing this book for me.

>Wondy in a straight jacket
I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but it's fucking retarded. I give the tiniest of shits about Wonder Woman as a cultural icon and nothing more and even I can tell this is bullshit.

>>89406527
Casual pleb

>>89408290
Ha, it was'nt popular at all mate, if it were, they would'nt have gone back to Lois and Clark and Steve/Diana.

>>89408347
Only ones bitter now are the EW52 Azzfags, rofl

>>89403492
How does that hinder you in any way?

>>89403291
I'm confused.Is one arc still the past? I thought the past arc finished when she beat Ares.

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>>89417439
>I don't actually think his run was shit, it just should've been an Elsewords and not her canon story
Azzarello might have gotten the mistaken impression that the whole NEW52 thing was actually going to allow for significant alterations to a character who's mostly a bondage joke battling a fursona.

But no, pretty soon it became clear that WW was meant to be nothing more than the editor's "Who's she gonna fug, Superman or Batman or both?" fantasy. As per usual.

>>89403360
Can you explain what hecks been happening with this?

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>>89427433
Every aspect of Wonder Woman's mythos that isn't something the current staff jerk off to was Wonder Woman being delusionally retarded.

>>89402985
Bitches love Harley, so let's make Wonder Woman a delusional mental patient with an ambiguous origin!
Brilliant!
Just Harley my shit up!

>ITT: Bitching
wonderful

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>>89427496
4chan might not be for you, friendo.