Hiveworks

I like them well enough. But I'm biased because I work for them along with another /co/mrade.

Don't actually have any favorites. Maybe Snarlbear.

It's a cancerous clique, in my opinion, and they value a certain kind of branding over quality.

There are good comics on it, but overall I really dislike the conglomerate itself as it's the very thing that webcomics are able to get away from in the first place.

>>89383506
Most of the comics I read from there (Paranatural, SMBC, Channelate, Blindsprings, Sleepless Domain)I got introduced to by other means. I haven't really found anything I liked through Hiveworks itself.

>>89384661
>it's the very thing that webcomics are able to get away from in the first place.
GOTTA MAKE MONEY
>branding over quality
GOTTA MAKE MONEY

And with that said, even though they're business-oriented, the quality of their webcomics is still much higher than the average webcomic - they're all at least visually interesting.

It's good, it's a viable business that doesn't exploit the webcomic artists (unlike its predecessors, going all the way back to Keenspot)

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girls with slingshots is actually a good read.

>>89384752
You know, money's nice, but that doesn't change my opinion. I hate what they are and what they do.

>>89384752
>they're all at least visually interesting
This is true of some titles, like Devil's Candy and Parallax and Jailbird, all of which have clear influence but their own individual and aesthetically pleasing style. This is not anywhere fucking near true for all of them. They host NerfNow, Slightly Damaged, Oh Joy Sextoy, and El Goonish Fucking Shive. Think about what you're fucking saying. You are calling El Goonish God Damn Shive visually interesting. You are calling Dumbing of Age visually interesting. There are plenty of stinkers on Hiveworks that don't even have striking art to their name.

>>89384661
>>89384987
>and they value a certain kind of branding over quality.
Not really, it's just people who appreciate enough each other work, of course you are going to see an over-tone emerging

>ll I really dislike the conglomerate itself as it's the very thing that webcomics are able to get away from in the first place.
>manage to get together a good bunch of quality comic
>decide to dislike them because on a principle you have arbitrary imposed that is of noeffect on the quality of the comic

I just don't get it, man. At least wait for a drama to happens where they try to modify the content of one of the comic before making that kind of complain...

>>89385105
Yeah. Editorial's never come down on us at any point. They even let the comic go through 2 other artists. Lost one to Cartoon Network and another to his own indecision. They're pretty chill and laid back really. Plus, they help bankroll the comic which is basically a godsend.

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I like Whomp.

>>89385232
>Plus, they help bankroll the comic
What does it means?

Also, isn't hiveworks basically a bunch of comics helping promoting each other? It's just a more advanced form of web-ring (for those who remember those things).

>>89385283
Sell T-shirts.

You know how Garfield makes money? LICENSING. Now tiny webcomics don't have enough brand-recognition to get them licensing deals, so they sell their own tchotchkes. People will think twice about paying $20 for a 100-page full-color comic but they'd drop a bill for a lousy T-shirt.

>>89385283
They paid for the site and hosting. They also paid my collaborators to keep making the comic on a regular basis. And it's enough for at least one of them to live off freelance alone.

I don't know what other people's HW deals are and frankly I don't care.

>>89385105
>>89385232
All I'm hearing is "They pay me and haven't fucked me yet, pls stop being mean :("

They don't have to spark an incident for me to dislike their business model, the way they congregate and advertise the participating comics, or any other aspect of what they are as an organization. OP asked for my opinion, and I gave it. They're not a very good content aggregator and I dislike them. There's good comics affiliated with them, but on the whole there's more low quality work than not and statements like
>they're all at least visually interesting.
are bullshit.

Really though, anyone in the thread, go read Devil's Candy to get a good feel for strong panel composition. I can't make promises about the writing, but it's a great case study on how to make a dynamic comic.

>>89385427
I haven't replied to you at any point in time and honestly don't care about your opinion one way or another. I'm just relaying my own experience and confirming things other people have brought up.

I'm sorry if any of my replies came across as hostile or argumentative.

This is one of the most blatant shill threads I've seen in a while.

...Either way, best comic I've read on there aside from the obvious ones is probably Saint for Rent. Worst (aside from the obvious) is Cassiopeia Quinn or Sakana. Haven't read most of the stuff on there, though, so who knows.

>>89385474
>I don't care about your opinions.
>Unless they're negative opinions about me.

Nice.
But I didn't say anyone was being hostile. Just that both replies are pretty much dismissive of dissenting opinions because y'all get paid. It's less "I don't agree with that but I might be biased" and more "That's silly they're awesome so that's just wrong." If you're doing good under them, that's good. I still don't like them.

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Really like this one comic, Kiwiblitz
Other than that there's not anything really good or bad, just a couple of Meh's

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>>89384987
>You are calling El Goonish God Damn Shive visually interesting.

This looks interesting.

>>89385618
for years i have adored this comic, but its been insanely slow for a while, update and plotwise

>>89384987
>You are calling El Goonish God Damn Shive visually interesting
Jesus, don't have a cow.

>>89385609
My very first post in this thread was that I'm extremely biased. Because of course I would be. I literally could not afford to do a comic if not for them. I don't make that kinda bread, Mack.

I was just telling other anon my own experience with editorial which has been a fairly comfortable one so far and how for the most part there isn't a lot of drama within the ranks. Even the people who leave seem to do so amicably.

I would love if there were more competition in the webcomic game. The fact that it's just three hubs is fucking ludicrous. It stifles diversity in content and kills many opportunities for others to succeed. But we don't live in a world where most webcomics can thrive on their own regardless of perceived quality. And that sucks.

I'm just not gonna hate on them the same way most anyone at a comic company won't hate on their current employers. It's not that they don't have flaws. It's just that we appreciate what they've done for our careers.

>>89385740
It looks like someone slapped a Rareware face on a playboy bunny

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>>89385618
don't know if i'm in the minority here , but i liked the art style better when Grace Liu was on board

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>>89385759
Well, we've reached page 500, so i guess that either we really like the comic or we have a lot of patience
They look cute together

>>89385828
You're not pal
it gave us some cute moments

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>>89385885
Well Fuck me, forgot the pic

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>>89385833
they do, i waited 4 years for them become canon. ben must be a patience god to deal with her antics

I applied to Hiveworks but didn't get in. It was a bummer, but I can succeed without them. But MAN it would've made things easier.

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>>89385791
>Cursing for emphasis is "having a cow"
Is it seriously a problem to punctuate just how bad Goonish Shive is? Because it's pretty damn bad.

>>89385885
plus made things look more serious, or at least the characters look older, less baby faced, don't get me wrong i love Mary's art style, but Grace Liu's fit better for me

>>89385740
Only if you're interested in girls with dicks.

>>89385982
Wait, so can you just submit work to hive works like a regular publishing company? I thought you basically had to already have an established site and fanbase and that they'd have to contact you first

>>89385982
That's how I feel about that Oni pitch contest. I'm still getting by without being selected but it would've been so much easier to pursue new opportunities if the pitch had been picked up.

I ended up being selected for a different submissions call though. The comic won't come out for 2 years though. That shit is killing me. It feels like the release date might as well be 10/32/Never.

>>89386066
They do submission calls VERY RARELY. They held one last year I think. Every other time though they don't take unsolicited submissions.

>>89386066
That was how they started out. But they've been taken pitches regularly for a few years now. They used to do pitch drives twice a year but the collapse of Inkblazers saw them take on more comics than anticipated in 2014. So now it's only a yearly thing. Don't have to have a fanbase or even a currently running comic. But it's not like those hurt your chances either.

>>89385427
>All I'm hearing is "They pay me and haven't fucked me yet, pls stop being mean :("
You are hearing wrong, I don't owork for Hive Works.
>They don't have to spark an incident for me to dislike their business model, the way they congregate and advertise the participating comics, or any other aspect of what they are as an organization.
Yeah, but "I don't like it because it exist isn't really a valid point either.
>OP asked for my opinion, and I gave it.
Having an opinion doesn't mean it can't be discussed. Here, the thing is, it seems you are more dislking them on principle rather than on anything substantial.
>They're not a very good content aggregator and I dislike them. There's good comics affiliated with them
You are contradicting yourself
>There's good comics affiliated with them, but on the whole there's more low quality work
There are things that are ore up to your tastes than other. At a buffet, you are not going to like everything, it doesn't mean it is bad.

>and statements like >they're all at least visually interesting.are bullshit.
I don't know aboyt interrsting, but there is at least a good quality standard. Even El Goonish Shive and Dumbing of age have good drawing quality even if the style is not everyone cup of tea.

>>89385609
>>Unless they're negative opinions about me.
Not him, but that's not what he said nor was it implied in any way.

>>89385411
>They paid for the site and hosting. They also paid my collaborators to keep making the comic on a regular basis.
Interesting, I thought it was just a sort of self-promoting system, but it seems there is more than that. What is the business deal exactly. What is being covered and how much of your adds revenue must be shared to Hiveworks?

>>89385609
>Just that both replies are pretty much dismissive of dissenting opinions because y'all get paid. It's less "I don't agree with that but I might be biased" and more "That's silly they're awesome so that's just wrong." If you're doing good under them, that's good. I still don't like them.
Like I said before I am not affiliated to HW in any way. Like I said before, my disagreement stem from you seeming to think (unless I am mistaken) that any kind of conglomarate is defacto wrong for webcomic, a notion I disagree with and I don't really see the displeasing that stem out of artists joining together to help alleviate the burdens that come with this kind of work.

>>89385798
>But we don't live in a world where most webcomics can thrive on their own regardless of perceived quality. And that sucks.
Can't most webcomic be basically selfhosted, nowadays?

Shit, hosting service, even if minimal, like Comic Genesis or DrunkDuck still exist, if you want to do everything on your own but paying for hosting.

Very few worthwhile comics on it, but at least most of the ones on it update regularly. Needs more quality control and should boot off the ones that got in my following alone.

Like most of what's been mentioned favorably so far. Cut Time Comic's the only other own I like that hasn't been mentioned.

>>89387501
>Shit, hosting service, even if minimal, like Comic Genesis or DrunkDuck still exist, if you want to do everything on your own but paying for hosting.
Along the same line, there is also Deviantart and tumblr, for those who don't give a fuck about clear navigation.

>>89387219
>Even...Dumbing of age have good drawing quality

He wishes.
DoA is literally bare minimum: the comic. It's B^U tier.

>>89386141
>hey used to do pitch drives twice a year but the collapse of Inkblazers
Never heard of that, what was that?

What comics should be given the boot on Hiveworks?

Go beyond the obvious like Misfile, Slightly Damned, and El Goonish Shive.

>>89387555
This is far above B^U level. The artist just as a few quirk in his drawing that trigger some reader and when pointed out to him he tell them to GTFO in the most assholish way possible and the ones triggerd by those quirks get even more triggered and hate the artist more for not listening to their precious advise. I have rarely see anyone with such a dedicated hatedome, honestly. I think there is a tripper here who keep screencapture of his assholish reply just so he can keep complaining about it every opportunity he gets.

>>89387668
The one I don't read. So I don't know their names. I don't even know they exist.

I can't think of a single comic I like from it. I don't know if that's Hiveworks fault or not though, most webcomics just aren't very good.

I guess the Last Halloween is the best artwise (IMO), even if the writing went up it's own ass.

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>>89387711
I'd honestly go with Cut Time for best artwork quality. Average page looks like this.

>>89387711
Not even Empowered?
And Atomic Robot. Don't tell me you don't like Atomic Robot?

>>89387765
Considering there's not a comic on Hiveworks called "Atomic Robot," no.

Now, Atomic Robo is pretty good, but it wasn't a webcomic originally and is really more on there for extra exposure.

>>89387677
Dude, he samefaces as hard as Buckley. It's not "hatedom" to acknowledge that his art's lazy as fuck.

Serenity Rose was a good read(awesome evolution of art), Whomp is always fun to read, Sand Still Stay Silent is beautifully made, and.... I guess that's it.

>>89388131
>samefaces
Wut? That's certainly not an issue with DoA. His cast of character have a full variety of facial shape. where are you even getting that?

>>89387668
I think that at the very least finished comics should be in a different section than updating comics. It's not fair for a newbie to have to compete for relevance with Shortpacked.

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>>89388169
Are you serious?
The only real difference between his character faces is whether they have dot eyes or pupil/iris hybrids within sclera (the pupil/irises sometimes being colored), and that distinction isn't even consistent.

Add to that the fact that he reuses base expressions a lot and you get massive sameface.

>>89384752
>the quality of their webcomics is still much higher than the average webcomic
Cat shit is better than dog shit but I still wouldn't want to eat it.

>>89388332
You're missing the point. The reply was to a comment that this organization is "cancerous". And the counterpoint is that the organization:
1) pays artists
2) monetizes webcomics in a way that's not exploitative of the artists
3) fosters higher-quality art than average

So it's not "cancerous", it's actually improving the quality of webcomics, even if you don't like them.

it's a platform, they don't "own" webcomics, and the fact you had to turn the sentence that way shows the problem, that they are appropriating their author's name for no reason.

>>89384752
>the quality of their webcomics
they don't own or produce anything, they offer a hosting service, that's it.

>>89387757
takes an actual eternity for the artist to update though. i would personally not mind trading less flair for more pages posted each month

>>89388398
>>89388414
Fox doesn't own Family Guy but it's still a Fox show.

Why are you arguing semantics?

>>89388414
>they offer a hosting service, that's it.
Uh no, they host, manage, and drive merchandise and advertising for the comic. If they were a hosting service they would charge for hosting, but they actually make their money selling merchandise.

>>89388390
>3) fosters higher-quality art than average
This is false.

Whether the artists use the comfort of the deal to produce better art is entirely up to them. Hiveworks does not encourage this, nor does it curate based on quality.

>>89387285
Can't really go into contract specifics but production and promotion are covered by them for us at least. Everyone has a different deal and we usually don't discuss them with each other. At least as far as I've seen. But yeah, they're more than just a platform for ad revenue and self promotion. And they're even trying to expand beyond what they are now.

>>89387501
Yeah you can host anywhere these days. And for pretty cheap too. But now people are less willing to go out of their way to discover anything. They want one stop shops for their content. And with such a saturated marketplace it's often pretty hard for anyone to break out without also being affiliated with a larger structure. And the people who can manage that tend to be absorbed by something bigger anyway.

>>89387598
Another comic collective/hosting site called Inkblazers basically went broke and couldn't continue to pay out on their profit sharing model. So they announced that the site was going to go away. This was just before the beginning of Hiveworks Winter Pitch Drive in 2014/2015. HW courted a lot of people from IB and soon found that they wanted to sign more of them than they previously anticipated. So they shortened their winter drive and only did their summer drive because they already promised they'd do one. After that they started restricting them to only once a year.

>>89388468
Because fox pay for those content, Hive work get paid to host. Harpy gee is on 2 sites currently, so they don't own or do shit. They don't even promote the content. They are a shitty niche blog with a webcomic friendly format, that's it

>>89388313
He's got about five face shapes he primarily uses along with about the same number of one-offs. It's more analogous to a video game with a limited number of character customization options. The problem is that DoA has something like 30 recurring characters.

>>89388682
>Hive work get paid to host.
How long have you been using alternative facts?

>>89388620
>Hiveworks does not encourage this, nor does it curate based on quality.
Hiveworks explicitly curate based on quality, that's why they're not a hosting service as >>89388682 says. They pick their partners, and they strive to merchandise comics so they can make a profit.

A hosting service gets paid to host. Hiveworks gets paid through merchandising (and to a far lesser extent ad revenue)

>>89388747
It really wouldn't be hard to better differentiate them, even with a minimalist style. He's just lazy, man, and it's okay to accept that.

>>89388899
The real problem is that he's been doing the same comic with the same story and the same characters with slight variations for decades.

For a gag comic that's not a problem.

For a drama, you end up recycling everything.

>>89388892
Anon, you misunderstand.

They host based on marketability and potential profit, not quality. They work with comics they can sell merchandise with, not the best they can find.

There are shit comics on Hiveworks. They aren't there because they're just critical darlings or something. Quality isn't the deciding factor, it's how much money you can make.

>>89389088
Just so you see how this chain of posts went (not saying they were all you, but they're all part of the chain)
1) Hiveworks is cancerous (reply: Hiveworks helps artists make money without exploiting them)
2) Cat shit is better than dog shit but I still wouldn't want to eat it. (reply: Hiveworks helps artists make money without exploiting them. They foster higher quality webcomics by this)
3) Hiveworks does not encourage this, nor does it curate based on quality. (reply: Yes, Hiveworks does encourage production of better art and they do curate based on quality, it's in their submission terms)
And now you're backing into the corner of "profits not quality", and your definition of quality is probably something undefinable.

Excuse me if the chain of reasoning in these posts seems wrong, because of the repeated moving of the goal post.

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>>89385740
i agree, it is interesting sometimes

>>89386058
Shive doesn't do futas tho.

>>89388390
>fosters higher-quality art than average
Their most popular comic is Dumbing of Age and one of the founding members draws Misfile, so...no.

>>89389563
>here are two examples I don't like so all the other art must be as bad as these

>>89389603
Paranatural is also shit despite being one of their flagship comics.

All of their lesser-known comics all have the same Tumblr style.

>>89390608
Paranatural went to shit, for the first few years it was easily one of the best webcomics around, including in terms of art.

>>89390669
i still like it, i don't mind so much the drop in art but i think the biggest problem it has is the pacing

>>89390608
Paranatural isn't shit, just dissappointing in how little Zach understands how serious good pacing is when your comic updates once a week.

At this point the art isn't really that standout, so he might as well go back to a looser less detailed style like earlier that would actually help him speed up the rate.


Did I mention he doesn't get pacing? In your average shonenn there is a strict 1 plotline per chapter rule. Until you resolve the current scene, you stick with it.

In the average 22 minute cartoon, you stick with 2 plots, an A plot and a B plot. You keep the plots separate but related, and you switch between them as the plot rises and falls, tying them together in the end.

In a 40-60 minute tv show you have a great many plotlines running at once, but in a single episode you limit yourself to 3-4, maximum, giving 2 thematic prominence and using the other 2 as serialization window dressing, to keep people remembering it and likely setting up future episodes, or just tying in loose ends in the main 2 plot lines.

In Paranatural, Zack has about 6-7 fucking plotlines running last I checked, and he's trying so fucking hard to manage all of them. It was okay in Hitball because at least they were in the same area and the plot fits the chaotic pacing, but right now everyone is everywhere, and it begs the question of why we should even care anymore as even now he adds in new concepts and ideas.

It feels like he has all these concepts he wants to get out, but rather than introducing them gradually with their own self-contained plotlines Zack wants to have them all happening at once.

The Hitball arc should have been Max going to school, Hitball, Max goes to the student bar, the gang beats Hijack. Then later you deal with Lucifer and Flipflop and Gay Namek and all that crap, when it's ACTUALLY RELEVANT.

And mind you none of this even relates to SJW shit or bad writing or bad art, because they aren't the real problem.

>>89389314
Fucking what?

I said they don't curate content based on quality and explained that they're profit focused and work with more than a few low-quality-but-popular comics. I don't see why you have to bring up what previous anons in the reply chain said.

I didn't realize what Hiveworks was until I realized two webcomics I read were linked to them. I just figured it was a site in competition with drunkduck.

Enjoy Manly Guys Doing Manly Things. It is the right kinda humor for me.

Also reading Guilded Age, but now only because I know it is planning on finishing up soon. With each new chapter it feels like the pacing gets screwed up more and more.

>>89389603
That's not what they said and you know it.

>>89383506
I don't mind them, I like stand still stay silent even if the pacing bothers me sometimes

>>89395289
>low-quality
There's that word again. Will you ever qualify kek it or will it forever be an ambiguous buzzword?

>PROFITS OVER QUALITY

Seems like you just don't like the fact that they've found a way to make money off of webcomics (merchandising!) and decided that if they make money, it must mean they don't foster quality. And you never say what sort of "quality" you're looking for, only that it's not there.

>>89393520
>In the average 22 minute cartoon, you stick with 2 plots
I hate The Simpsons for making that some sort of mandatory rule. I find two plots obnoxious and would rather have one plot per episode.

do you lose anything from joining up with Hiveworks, like say certain rights or how far you can go with your story for example? does anyone know? whats the benefits and tradeoff for connecting with them

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>>89399277
Yes. Hiveworks are a publisher and they deal with merchandising, so you sign a contract (usually exclusive) to pusblish and merchandise your comic with them.

The benefits is that they're good at merchandising. The tradeoff is that you sign a contract and you have contractual obligations.

>Our services vary from contract to contract (depending on what the creators needs) and can go from full range of publishing and marketing services, (including hosting, tech support, site design, Kickstarter assistance, editorial help, merch distribution, ad representation, book design, etc) to just ad management. Usually we talk to creators and build a contract from there. What we expect from creators is regular updates and participative communication, especially if we are required to offer varied services to the creator.

So the bare minimum of signing up with them is ad management, although I assume the vast majority of contacts include merchandising.

>>89399563
What the "obligations" seem to be are "update your goddamn comic on time", which is pretty reasonable all things considered.

>>89383506
>Rock Cocks is on Hiveworks

huh

There some okay comics there but I don't read any of them

>>89399563
interesting, thanks anon!

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>>89383506
Haven't had a Harpy Gee topic in awile, thanks for bringing her up.

>>89389088
>They host based on marketability and potential profit, not quality. They work with comics they can sell merchandise with, not the best they can find.
That logic doesn't make sense. they get a share out of the adds revenue. If the comic is quality, they will also profit from the ads it get.

>>89395289
>I said they don't curate content based on quality
Source?
"comic tat I don't like" isn't really a good back up for that statement.

You'd have to find some quality webcomic they actually rejected or pulled out to make that statement true.

>>89399563

>kickstarters

They fucked up the GGAR KS and chloe had to more or less do everything herself.