What's your opinion on his "no killing" policy?

Only good when they play it up as part of his unbalanced psychosis.

Shouldn't be taken as some sort of upstanding moral code and instead played for character drama highlighting Batman's emotional immaturity and fear of death caused by seeing his parents gunned down.

Dumb as hell in almost every possible way.

>>89067462
I thought that was a myth or something. BvS is more accurate?

>>89067462
Stupid. How are you any better if you're sparing criminals that are going to keep breaking out of jail and keep hurting people.

>>89067462

Bullshit. I know there should be a limit to prevent random muggers and thieves from getting killed on sight, but refusing to kill an amoral psychopath who constantly breaks out of prison to people regularly makes you a self-centered ass who would rather have thousands of people die just to keep your ego in check.

>>89067506
>>89067546

And... done. No kill policies only work then they're used to expose the hero's flaw.

I don't mind when Superman does it for some reason.

>>89067682
Because he just wants to do good for the sake of doing good. No stupid edgy backstory needed as a reason for doing what he does.

>>89067462
It's cool. But it also makes less sense in the ultra grim and edgy post Miller Batman world.

To be perfectly honest I'd rather change the world rather than the policy.

>>89067682
Superman will only kill if there is absolutely positively no other way

Batman used to have a no kill code because he didn't consider himself above the law, but now he'll leap in front of a cop's bullet because he's an unstable psycho

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>>89067462

Its simple.

It WOULD work if he was a creator owned character.

If Batman was like Hellboy, there would be a beggining, development and an end.

His vilain would have "resilutions".

So you would have the opportunity of some of them, like Harly, Two Faces, Clayface, Bane, Penguin AND Riddler getting better or changing sides or good.

All of the guys that I mentioned above had a anti-hero or actually heroic phase, or got better at some point. Did it stuck? Obviously not.

What causes the problem is that you have always to use the same vilains again, again and again on company owned comics.

If the choices that Batman did had any real impact in universe, his no kill rule would make more sense, and showing mercy to guys that can recover could be rewarded.

Thing is, this would never work because the way that the comics MUST work, but Bruce has no idea about it.

>>89067584
It's not so much about being better as realizing that an important thing about every scumbag he meets in warehouse.

Like Burgess Meredith said in the movie "Every one of them has a mother."

>>89067803

Not to mention Supes is only willing to kill the REALLY dangerous villains like Zod, Doomsday, or Darkseid. Meanwhile almost all of his other enemies are just petty criminals or in the case of Lex Luthor, aren't completely murderous and love anarchy like the Joker.

>>89068004
What about everyone whom they will kill next time?

>>89067462
Pretty much made necessary by the publishing model of cape comics. It's either that or villains coming back from the dead even more often.
With that in mind the in-universe justification really doesn't matter.

>>89067506
>it only works if we can loop it back to make it look edgy.

>>89067462
I am not autistic so I don't mind it

>>89067546
>not killing people is a sign of immaturity
Wew lad. The only reason it makes him look bad is because of editorial/audience-forced police and judiciary incompetence.

The "No Kill" policy is stupid. But in the Nolan films it's defined as "I will not be an executioner," which is far more rational and moral than "I will never do anything that leads a person to die."

>>89067462
A prominent and important feature of psychologically obsessive person. It really says a lot about Bruce as a character.

>>89067462
It's dumb, but not as dumb as Snyder's batman killing every person that he deems a criminal.

>>89068521
>Leaving someone to die
>rational
>moral

what's your excuse for not being out there killing criminals

>>89067462

Has it not been consistently hammered that it's a line because it will just cause him to go on a murderspree crusade?

His definition of justice is handing the guys/or evidence over to who will get the job done properly or should at least.

Now why did he let near immortals fuck around so much? I dunno.

>>89067462
It's fine. The problem is so many people have a hard-on for villains.

>>89068752
>it will just cause him to go on a murderspree crusade
you say that like it 100% definitely will happen, when it's actually really really really unlikely. especially since someone as stable as Batman is doing the killing

>>89068752
>Has it not been consistently hammered that it's a line because it will just cause him to go on a murderspree crusade?

The only times I can remember are in Under the Red Hood and one issue of the Superman/Batman run.
Other than that he decides to kill someone but is always stopped by someone else or fails, and the most recent explanation for him not killing someone like the Joker is that he fears he would come back even worse then before.
And except for the Joker all the others could be potentially redemeed.

>>89067462
Killing doesn't make you as bad as your villains. Sorry, Batman.

It's not the act of killing that separates hero from villain, it's the intent, and the goals of the act. Killing to stop a killer is more noble than letting the killer live, only to escape and kill again.

>>89068658

It was in Begins. He knew Ghul wouldn't stop. He also couldn't kill because that's vengeance not justice (the whole point of the movie). The league would've recovered Ghul had he saved him. He cut the knot by leaving him to whatever fate he had on the train.

>>89067462
I think he should change it to 'No Direct' Killing rule.

Because I'm sure he's indirectly murdered a lot of people.

>>89068804
But he's not stable.

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>>89067462
I love Batman. He's my favorite hero. And I know ''no killing'' policy is a big and important part his character for most people, but I personally don't understand it, I hate it quite frankly.

The writers constantly put him in situations where it just doesn't make sense or seems ridiculous. I'm personally waiting for that dark dark Batman era where he just loses his mind and starts killing to the point where the JL has to come and stop him. I want him to truly go crazy. And I think big part of that could be him not killing everyone, and it'd be interesting to see why he doesn't kill the Joker for example.

Why can't the writers make him crazy? It's all I've ever wanted. BvS had hints of what I'm after, but then it turned out to be the beginning of his redemption.

I don't want him to just shoot people or whatever, but i want him to be clever about it. elaborate traps, torture, theatrics, you know.

It works when used as a way to show how close he is to madness that he thinks he'll become a serial killer if he kills one person. It also works in the stories where he's only tolerated by the city/world because he doesn't kill, and without that code they'd consider him just another criminal.

>>89067462
I don't get it, he can throw the Joker in jail, but what's to stop the judicial system from executing him now that he's arrested?

>>89068912
You want him to become Dexter Morgan?

I just don't get why people are obsessed with him not killing when pretty much no hero does

>>89069007
Because his rogues gallery is the mot murderous

>>89069170
They are also also legally insane. If you want to debate morality murdering someone not in control of their own actions is highly unethical.

The few times Joker went sane he was horrified with himself.

>>89068956
I've only watched the first season back when it originally aired, so can't really say that for certain. But yes, I believe ''my'' Batman would be in many ways similar to Dexter.

Or if he doesn't become a killer, at least get some competent writers to make sense of him. Many writers right now can't handle all the bullshit they force on him. The character is suffering from the stubbornness to stick to the ''no killing'' policy and the reluctance to deal with it in deeper detail.

>>89069216
It's not that high level of a concept. Especially with how many of Batman's rogues have went good for a bit. The whole point is they still have the capacity to do good.

>>89069170
they really aren't tho
the Joker and Ra's are the most murderous and they are still nothing compared to the likes of Sinestro

>>89068867
In hindsight, that didn't stop them from fucking up Gotham something fierce in TDKR. He half-assed it.

>>89067462
Is great, the morals of filthy neckbeards should be put into question by the heroes, not protected into the ubermen

>>89067462
When not killing will literally put life's a stake than yes it's retarded

>>89069296
The people that complaines about batman no killing rule don't care about the no killing rule, they just hate batman.

>>89067462
His no killing policy, contrary to what /co/ believes, makes a lot of sense. If superheroes started killing criminals left and right, you'd bet your ass there'd be a huge public backlash, mainly because these guys are unstoppable forces of nature only bound by their personal code of conduct, not actual laws put in place by the powers that be (not that you'd actually want superheroes to be perfect enforcers of the law either).

Superheros that actively kill basically jeopardize the fragile and frankly imaginary line between "protectors of the peace" and "all powerful rulers".

The reason why "no kill" is so easily seen as stupid is because the sort of folks that Batman is regularly put up against, like the Joker, are also basically high level superhumans (in the same way that Batman is so much more than a street tier) that constantly endanger (and even more constantly take) human lives.

"No killing" makes sense as a barrier between Street Tier heroes and High End heroes, a sort of moral code that keeps guys like Superman from going full on Injustice on humanity. It keeps the High End heroes focused on High End villains, while the Street Tier heroes can deal with regular villains, because they aren't invincible to the forces of the law, and thus still subject to some kind of government. It stops making sense when it prevents High End villains (like how the Joker repeatedly proves himself to be on numerous occasions) from ever facing any type of justice, because whenever Joker's caught he's just put right inside Arkham Asylum, which is ruled by ordinary people and street tier heroes that are no match for Joker's brand of bullshit plotforce.

Ergo, there either needs to be a better jail for people like the Joker, or Batman needs to pull on his big boy pants and finally fucking kill the Joker.

>>89069463
But he did kill him and people don't even care about that

>>89069536
That's just one instance where he did kill the Joker versus the trillions of instances where he didn't. Nothing is ever permanent in capeshit.

Its annoying, but it is only a symptom of the wider disease that plagues the Big Two.

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>>89068859
>Killing to stop a killer is more noble than letting the killer live, only to escape and kill again

Killing because "well he MIGHT escape and do it again!" is the thought process of a psychopath. Bruce has no way to know that people are going to escape unless he gets severe meta awareness and memerories of every reboot and alternate continuity. And even then, he would just know that killing would be and pointless exercise anyway since some magic bullshit is just going to bring them back anyway.

>>89070861
Joker being the notable exception to this where he ALWAYS gets away, on a routine basis even, and yet in most scenarios Batman lets the Joker go to regular jail.

>>89069604
If nothing is permanent in capeshit then killing the Joker is pointless. You literally answered why he shouldn't kill him, because all it would do is make things worse for everyone.

>>89069211
But they aren't. Joker is just fucking
>C-c-cuhRAZY
To be legally insane you need to not know that what you're doing is wrong. Joker routinely says he's a monster. Even guys like Two-Face are able to distinguish right from wrong they just don't care. Dylan Roof is fucking insane but they're still killing him. There's no reason people like Joker, Poison Ivy, or Ra's shouldn't be killed.

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>>89067462
for the sake of not looking like another black wearing character who kills people, i say no killing please

>>89067462
Depends on his villains
Since he's a street level hero it make sense

>>89067462
If they do routinely kill then its justice lord dictatorship time

>>89067682
Lex Luthor's kill count isn't as nearly as big as the Joker's.

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>>89071379
???

>>89067462
Just some bullshit propagated by modern BAT fans. He killed back in the Golden,Silver and Bronze ages.

But don't tell the nutty Bat-fans that. They will start foaming at the mouth and start praising shit like Long Halloween or Hush.

ITT right now: Edgy kids that can't grasp the basic concepts of morality.

>>89071424
What? Is deleting typos and reposting a crime now?

>>89071431
what's wrong with Long Halloween?

>>89071366

Also that he actually has good intentions in wanting to advance humanity without Supes help.

>>89071469
no, I just thought you were backing out on your opinion or something

>>89071436

Because apparently thousands dying every few days is bright and happy.

Superman Vs. The Elite and Kingdom Come a shit.

>>89068725
I'm not a billionaire with a decade of martial arts training and I'm only 5'3

>>89067462
As a character, I like it when its due to his inability to kill on a mental level, due to his mental trauma from the death of his parents.

From a practical point of view - I don't think he should kill if he can help it. If he can subdue someone without using lethal force, then do so. However, I think he takes risks by his refusal to escalate. When he's fighting a foe thats so challenging that he can't easily subdue them non lethally, there is a good chance that that foe could shred through a fair number of civies before getting stopped. Similar for Superman and characters at that tier of power, except then its even more urgent, as someone that is so powerful that they cannot be subdued by Superman without lethal force could probably cause a megadeath event with a few moments if left unchecked.

Its for the Judiciary to execute, not the capes.

>>89068288
>Not to mention Supes is only willing to kill the REALLY dangerous villains
>Superman will only kill if there is absolutely positively no other way

Literally the same thing dingus. The only villains that can force him into a situation where he has no other way are villains on his level or greater

>>89068912
Is this bait? I can't tell anymore.

>>89069296
Remember when Black Adam wiped out a country? Good times.

not killing ensures co-operation with the police force who would otherwise say no
blame the justice system for not giving the death penalty

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>>89068391
>>89067844
These guys have the right mindset. As good a story though it may be, Alan Moore really wrecked Batman's character by making his "no kill" code so central to the character. Now every Batman writer is obsessed with picking what was nothing more than a flawed but necessary long-running comic book gimmick apart with their "maybe Batman is the real psychopath!" and constant pushing of his thinly veiled romanitc relationship with a murderous clown.

>Superman fighting Doomsday, can't subdue him, every second that goes buy could lead to many innocent deaths, and if Superman looses then Doomsday will cause untold destruction before being stopped.

In this situation, it would be irresponsible NOT to kill Doomsday.
>Batman fights Joker, subdues him. Joker is no match for Batman physically and is no immediate danger to anyone.

In this situation, killing is not justified.

>>89069463
You're mixing execution with killing, and it depends on the context. IRL we expect Cops to put down a gunman if they pose a threat to civilian life, and to bring them in if they are not a threat to life. Same holds true to Capes, but without the oversight - which is where the issue is.

>>89070861
>>89070958
But the responsibility for Joker escaping is not on Batman, its on the Gotham City/New Jersey State/Federal penitentiary system. Its also on them to decide whether to kill or not kill Joker.

>>89067462
It's dead

Bury it

>>89071366
Any source on that? Lex's schemes usually put the entire world in danger

>>89070861
> Bruce has no way to know that people are going to escape.
Doesn't Bats have cameras in Arkham? Couldn't he bribe one of the folks that work there to alert him when one of his rogues escapes?

Batman always felt weird to me because he's like, the complete opposite of a classic vigilante archetype.

Usually a vigilante gets fed up with the job that both law enforcement and the judicial system is doing (usually because of either corruption or because of a fundamental disagreement with the laws of the land), takes justice into their own hands and explicitly breaks the law, and causes a divide in public opinion where he's seen as both a public menace by some and a necessary evil who's practical, tangible improvements to the world around him justify his actions.

Batman cooperates with law enforcement, operates within the confines of the law, and does not overstep his boundaries and has a stance of non-interference with the legal system. He's basically just a super-cop who exists to apprehend super criminals law enforcement can't on their own.

He should just rape his criminals.

>>89072453
lmao le epic meme, friendo.

>>89072486
lmao epic meme hating meme amigo!

I think it's dumb, but I think the fact that killing villains is a question to begin with is even dumber.

If Batman was good at his job, he'd kill more villains than he does.

If Batman was REALLY good at his job (Like he should be, because he's fucking Batman) he'd put better locks on Arkham and hire some actually decent therapists so wouldn't need to kill anyone in the first place.

He should probably kill the Joker now, because he's that big a threat to society, but if he did his fucking job right the first time, the Joker would be working a convenience store somewhere and not the fucking world-ending problem he is today

>>89067462
Makes sense in the movies, where villians usually die due their own stupidity

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I didn't want to start a thread about this since I've just been doing my own research in getting into Batman but can someone help me figure what stories are the last 2 panels from? I just reading Morrisons and picked up from 52. sorry for the offtopic.

>>89071959
I actually agree, and fuck anybody who says otherwise. Batman shouldn't be the the justice system, but work by it.

>>89067462
Real reason cape characters dont kill their villains is so the writers can reuse those villain infinitely, why are you guys do dumb?

>>89071366
Lex Luthor destroyed a planet and genocided 100k kryptonians almost by himself. His killcount is definetly higher than the joker. The difference is that Lex is a respected public figure and he can be reasoned with.

>>89072785
Identity crisis and infinite crisis.

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>>89071486
>Lex
>Good intentions

No. He's an amoral monster with delusions of grandeur, the only reason he wants Superman out of the picture is so he can run amuck uninterrupted.

>>89067462
I get it for some basic thugs on the street or whatever, but when you're dealing with a violent psychopath who constantly escapes from the law time after time and kills thousands you're justification goes down the toilet.

>>89072925

I would rather have him running around then the Joker anyday.

>>89072621
>he'd put better locks on Arkham and hire some actually decent therapists so wouldn't need to kill anyone in the first place.

I was just thinking this. Probably my pleb level of comic knowledge coming through but isn't there somewhere slightly safer to stick all these criminals who keep breaking out? Aside from just beefing up Arkham, which also wouldn't be a terrible idea.

>>89071084
Franking isn't killing. It is Franking and is acceptable.

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>>89072953
Lex is a cunt. Joker would actually give the masses cake instead of stealing it.

The cakes would kill you, but it isn't theft.

>>89071959
Joker being poorly held by Gotham is a natual outcome. I wouldn't expect them to be properly equipped to hold the Joker anymore than I would expect them to be properly equiped to hold Batman himself. They are on the same level in most adaptions.

The system can never properly contain such a high level threat like the Joker, ergo either a new system needs to be developed to hold high level threats or the current system must be adjusted to accommodate for it.

>>89072621
Arkham is a state of the art facility, funny as it his, but they will always keep escaping

>>89071922
But Doomsday isn't even sentient. That's not much different then "killing" a robot.

>>89072960
Arkham has more tech and security than the JL's Watchtower.

The problem is you have all these henchmen who can sneak past a retarded cop and free the fucks.

Those henchmen must be getting stupid money to risk this shit.

>>89068912
so you pretty much want batman to become a villain in the DC universe?

he can still be crazy and not kill people just look at Frank Millers runs

>>89071486
God you idiots are retarded, no wonder you hated Snyder's lex, you actually believe lex is some sort of anti hero. Lex is deluded and lies to himself, he is an evil person that doesn't care about anyone but himself, he wants praise, he wants to be on top, he doesn't give a shot about the planet and has sold the human race several times. Seriously, it's almost as if you take Johns shitty take seriously.

>>89067462
I think the reason why Batman doesn't kill, is because he's fundamentally different than Supes. His midset is that, if he was willing to kill, but disliked it, he'd still kill the likes of the Joker. And so most view it as a large plot hole that can be band aided by the "no kill" rule.

>>89070861

>put Joker in jail 47 times
>Joker escapes from jail 47 times
>"Maybe he won't escape this time!"

How does that saying go? "Insanity is doing the same thing every time and expecting a different result?"

>>89067506
fpbp

>>89072953
Anyone that is actually aware of what Lex is capable of wouldn't say that. He routinely creates Superman-level monsters and is a constant danger to the entire planet. Joker is a small scale crook that only exists because Batman does. And even in a smaller scale Lex utterly fucks up people's lives for fun.

>>89072925
>>89073179
Wasn't it a thing in all-star superman, and a few other books, that a superman-less Lex is the man who brings humanity into the future? In the case of all-star he actually makes Krypton in some roundabout way.

>>89067462

Definitely contrived since you can't plan your way out of every situation and sometimes just have to cap a nigga to save yourself or others, but it does fit his character of despising murderers and attempting no matter how futile to make the world the way he wants it to be, however it's often abused by shit writers to have villains come back over and over again when it's obnoxious some other character hasn't killed them or he hasn't come up with some other way to incapacitate them the tenth time scarecrow gasses the police station.

>>89073215
I still think the only way Batman not killing Joker makes sense, si that he feels personally responsible for making him who he is. Like, if the Joker isn't reabilitated , he failed.

>>89067462
I'm more concerned about his "no raping" policy.

>>89067462
Batman originally loved killing people with guns until he met Robin. Batman literally stopped using guns for no reason except to be child-friendly.

No-kill rules are, canonically, lies invented to protect children.

The only question is: who is the child in a given Batman story? Is it Robin? Is it Rachel? Is it Bruce himself? Or: is it you?

>>89073314
>si that he feels personally responsible for making him who he is

Well then that would make Batman personally responsible for every person Joker kills, now wouldn't it?

If the Joker dies two more will spawn, that's what happened in current canon.

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>>89073215
Unless you're talking about the fucking Silver-Age(in which Joker never really killed), that never fucking happens. And that's the problem with people advocating to kill the Joker: You're taking every single continuity and mashing them all together for the sake of a shitty strawman.

>>89067462
We shouldn't try to make up excuses for a fictional character's morality when it's truthfully only rooted in money and moral watchdogs circa the 1940's.

>>89067462
Part of why Batman is disliked by me.
I can see not killing guys who could use a second chance... but Professor Pyg? You should kill a guy like that just out of principal. I don't even understand how the other villains can work with that sicko.

Also Batman was meant to be gay.

Or I would like to see a universe where the Joker is the good guy and the Batman is the bad guy. I think Batman comics represent the persecution of silly people who like to have fun, portraying anybody happy as being insane. You try to be happy or non-conformist in this world and there are sour pusses that will try to shit all over it. They're not happy, but instead of trying to make the world better they want to destroy your happiness because humans are fucking stupid.

>>89072621
>If Batman was REALLY good at his job (Like he should be, because he's fucking Batman) he'd put better locks on Arkham and hire some actually decent therapists so wouldn't need to kill anyone in the first place.
He does. Anything, you can come up that Bruce help "better" the system as opposed to killing his villains , Bruce has already done it. It ultimately comes down to this >>89067844.

>>89067462
Nobody has done the basic legwork of providing a rational basis for Batman's traditional refusal to kill. So I'll do it for you.

Batman doesn't kill in some stories because he (still) respects authority in those stories. He leaves criminals alive so that the police, the courts and psychiatric professionals can 'take care of them' for him. The authorities will determine the criminals' fates. A Batman who is absolutely committed to only subduing his enemies is, fundamentally, a Batman who believes in the system. This is why the Adam West version doesn't kill anyone: he's too square.

In stories like Nolan's Dark Knight films, where the police force is presented as corrupt and the system is fucked, Batman's inability to kill is interpreted as an irrational thing. He refuses to kill because he thinks Rachel will fall in love with him, or he refuses to kill because he thinks guns are too scary. Whatever.

BVS's version is beyond both of these. As a continuation of Nolan's Batman, he doesn't trust the cops, and he no longer has the 'irrational' fear of guns. So, what we see in the film, is a different sort of irrationality - and when he overcomes that, it leads to his renewed belief in the concept of justice.

This is the first time he's believed in justice since the 1960s.

>>89073356
Right, I don't think he could live with himself if he couldn't fix his mistake. He's basically become a surrogate Joe Chill, killing him would just prove that he's no different.

>>89073264
You are thinking of red son. And no, lex is a terrible person and all the shit he says about humans and superman are lies and justifications. Lex is pure brilliance tainted by ego, he is pretty and evil. Nothing more than that, the reason why he is redeemed in the all star movie or red son is the influence of superman. Just like batman isn't really a vampire lex isn't right or even sincere when he talks about humanity, he is either deluded or just lying to himself

>>89067462
Fans don't actually care whether Batman kills or not. They care that Batman will choose to kill instead of just making excuses for why the last murder didn't count. The idea of responsibility is terrifying.

>>89067462
It's pretty silly.

>>89073264
No, it really isn't. Hell, he fucking admits in all-star that the only reason he hates Superman is because he's the only thing standing between him and absolute control.

like most things in Batman it wouldn't be a problem if writers didn't focus on it to give a "definitive" answer

>>89067462
I've never heard of the 'no killing policy' till fucking plebs in real life and reddit started arguing about Batman's character despite them probably never reading a comic book.

I just assume that your typical generic hero in comic books or cartoons don't kill, to teach young readers morals and shit. Or else soccer moms gna complain and sign petitions.

>>89067462
Batman was never supposed to be anti-killing. He's supposed to be anti-gun.

Ignoring the trillonary bat autist.
Why is the actual law in Gotham always insist in putting them the same exact asylum instead of a good old lethal injection?

>>>89067462 (OP)
They want to reuse villains. It's pointless to argue the in-comic logic of something that is determined by real world business strategy.

>>89072414

Batman also believes in the legal system and wants to help purge it of corruption and help cut down on crime so all his villains get proper trials in a court of law.

>>89071922
>>Batman fights Joker, subdues him. Joker is no match for Batman physically and is no immediate danger to anyone.
>In this situation, killing is not justified.

Makes sense.
But the Joker is always causing shit to happen and should really be killed in the situation where he's putting peoples lives in danger. Also cops kill people in "dangerous" situations all the time. In a place like Gotham, why haven't the police killed the Joker?

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>>89067546
>instead played for character drama highlighting Batman's emotional immaturity and fear of death caused by seeing his parents gunned down.

This.

In all seriousness though good Batman stories are about Batman fighting against death and overcoming it.

>>89073046

Why is it that Gotham, a place filled with so much crime, doesn't have proper/more strict law enforcement? Why the hell isn't Gotham like some quasi Judge Dredd universe?

Isn't Gotham also filled with a lot of rich people too? (y'know despite all the poor people) Why in the world aren't things more high-tech?

>>89074731
What in comics isn't determined by real world business strategy?

>>89073441

10/10

>>89067462

I love it. Force him to be creative to deal with crime. Any fag like Punisher or Red Hood can use a gun, that's boring.

>>89067584
also bruce probably gives people permanent dental and brain injuries every night why not just let some cop kill the joker and end the super villan goon recruiting