Will this ever be surpassed in the medium

>>89055364
Yes.

>>89055364
pretty much

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>>89055364

>>89055364
>Will this ever be surpassed in the medium

Probably at some point in the future. Alan Moore also wishes it got surpassed in the medium too.

>>89055364
It is overrated
It is a good comic but certainly not as good as it is made out to be

>>89055364
Not even close. At least 40% of Superman comics are way better. Moore is a hack who wishes he had a tenth of the talent Jack Kirby did.

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It's a great comic but I don't consider it the best.

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Already been surpassed time and time and time again by Grant Morrison.

>>89055433
>Krazy Kat as number 1?


get out

>>89055409
What a lame post.

>>89055364
The Life & Times of Scrooge McDuck is better. Moore's own Swamp Thing is better. Miller's DD is better. The Dark Knight Returns is better. Batman Year One is better. Busiek's Conan is better. Hitman is better. Ennis' Punisher is better. Scout is arguably better. Planetary is arguably better. Lots of manga is better, Akira in particular.

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>>89055433
>no Cerebus the Aardvark just because Gary Groth had a personal grudge against Dave Sim
What a shame.

"Cerebus, as if I need to say so, is still to comic books what Hydrogen is to the Periodic Table." - Alan Moore, author of Watchmen

>>89055433
that list is a joke

they're trying too hard to be hipsters

>>89055514
>I don't like these comics, so nobody else could like them either! They must be just pretending!
Anon, pls.

>>89055444
>Citizen Bane

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>>89055444
>highest artistic achievements
>graphic novels
>all capeshit

Will obviously provocative shitpost thread ever get deleted on sight or will we always have retard monkey mods?

>>89055489
He doesn't. He's an offered to publish Sim's books.

>>89056530
*he has

The comic was damn good but I think the movie had better pacing which made it the superior Watchmen version.

>>89055433
is Maus any good or is it only highly regarded because "muh six trillion"?

>>89056676
Both.

>>89056579
Kill yourself.

>>89056676
It's good.

>>89055444
which 14 year old made this

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>>89055364

It was surpassed before it was finished.

>>89055433

>old white men are nostalgic about things which have aged worse than old milk

I'll pass.

>>89055364
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w

That's not Kirby FF.

>>89055461
lol kill yourself

>>89055364
Cerebus

>>89056676

It's trash.

The art is it makes it pretty much unbearable. The dumb French New Wave subplot in the middle of it about the author's death is one of the most grossly handled things in fiction I've ever come across.

It's insulting to both Jews and Poles. The only people give a fuck about it is because of Art Spiegelman (however his name is spelled) having name recognition from being an artist in the New Yorker.

Oh, it's also pretentious as fuck!

>>89056676
It's fucking amazing. The narration is solid, the "framing device" doing wonders for his father's memories. The events are told in a very honest and not particulary dramatic way. To his father it was just stuff that happened, without any more weight than the personal one.
It also doesn't shy away from showing his father being a stereotypical greedy jew (and actually mentions it in the story, his misgivings about portraying his father that way).
The way the animal metaphor slowly breaks down is also excellent, in its fourth wall breaking discussion.

Also worthy of mention is the inclusion of Spiegelman's old comic in which he talked about his mother's suicide.

So yes, Maus is just a great comic.

>>89055433
>You live in a world where Stan Lee shit is considered better than the most influential Comic for the last 30 years
Like this list has some good stuff in EC war Comic, Acme Novelty Library, The Spirit but seriously, I want to know what criteria they used that Watcmen landed in the 91st spot.
I don't even like Watchmen but some of the things that book did narratively are just so fucking out there. I'm not even talking about "le ebin Superhero deconstruction" but outside of that Moore's style is just dripping in every panel of the book.

>>89056167
Because everything else in this medium sucks.

>>89058066
>I don't even like Watchmen

lol

>>89058028

You're literally the problem with comic book criticism.

The animal metaphors are the most hamfisted thing which seem clever to a middling first year English student. Also, the Poles (who just fucking had their country invaded and occupied by the Nazis, and were the organisation responsible for saving more Jewish lives than anyone else - including Russia and the USA) are portrayed as pigs because Art doesn't give a fuck.

Also, one can't tell any character apart because they all look the same. All you know about a character is whether they're Jewish, Polish, or German which makes the book muddles and makes you have to re-read boring fucking dialogue over and over again to get who is saying what,

>Also worthy of mention is the inclusion of Spiegelman's old comic in which he talked about his mother's suicide.

I... I'm fucking speechless. This is literally the worst part of Maus. Without this trash I might say the book is merely overrated, but with it it's fucking garbage. Also, the fact that it was written years before Maus makes it even worse as Art's too fucking lazy to include his mother's suicide in the narrative naturally.

>>89058078
You have to be 18 to post here

>>89058025
>>89058028

Never change /co/.

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>>89058139

Thanks bro. You made me chuckle after the defence of Maus came literally right after my condemnation of it.

>>89058091
I respect it for its artistic merits, I hate it because it's not a good Superhero Comic. It failed to get me immersed emotionally because of how artificially it is constructed. It was so focused on making a point that it forgot to make people care about the characters or setting. Plus there is a lot of negative stigma that comes with Watchmen and every criticism has its place.

Would you ever fuck off?

>>89058189
>it forgot to make people care about the characters or setting

Doesn't it devote entire issues to the characters' past, suffering and motivations? Even the secondary characters.

>>89058189

I agree with >>89058240 it does an amazing job with characters and setting. Rorschach literally leaps onto the page in the second page and made me instantly interested in him as a character.

>>89058240
It does and maybe people found those characters engaging but when at the end the handsome rich guy archetype only cared about his libido, the 2nd generation legacy archetype was just a cunt with daddy issues who wanted to fuck dudes, the most traditional Superhero that people would find interesting was just a fucking parody, Superman who could shape the universe was holding his blue dick over the predeterministic nature of time and world smartest dude just did the dumbest thing possible, all I could think is you can all fuck yourself and end of the world is what you deserve.
Also the book was just artificial and self referential as fuck with its symbolism, in comic gags, panel and narration symmetry and all the other things that I was admiring it the whole time for how it was written and drawn rather than for what was written and drawn.
The book is smart but Moore's ego and pretentiousness is just so reflective in each panel of the book that I can appreciate it and loathe it at the same time, both for different reasons.

>>89055364
I found Watchmen to be highly overrated, decent, but no where near as good as it's nuthuggers keep going on about.

>>89058466
I actually really find this funny that the character that Moore wanted everyone to hate is the character that ended up becoming the most popular. And it's not as if Moore didn't try enough, he tried and failed spectacularly.

>>89058530
It is 2deep4u. Read more comics and then once you grow up, read Watchmen again.

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>>89055364
No, it's just good and very popular. I really wouldn't say it's the peak of the medium.

I'd say Dropsie Avenue is my favourite and a highlight of the medium. It really feels like Eisner's magnum opus, it explores a spectrum of urban life throughout history, the story is literally New York's history itself. The scope is a lot grander than most of his other work, yet it tells it through really intimate stories, it has a lot to say about how communities change over time. The artwork of course is brilliant.

>>89058555
Classic defense.

>>89058638
It is true though.

>>89058662
Not at all actually.

>>89055364
Anything by Darwyn Cooke is better.
And I really like Moore but Cooke is the master

>>89058728
Man, I really like Cooke, but nothing he's done is a true masterpiece.

>>89058530
it's an overblown trolley dilemma with the 'correct' answer literally written in the margins via the black freighter story, so people feel smart when they 'solve' it despite the hilariously low mental skill ceiling

>>89058533

I don't agree with Rorschach's views, but he's an incredibly compelling character with a great design.

He's definitely one of the better anti-heroes written in the past fifty years.

>>89055433
This is like if that one Italian guy /mu/ adores were to do a list of the best comics.

>>89058127
Name one non-cape comic that is on the level of any of the books posted in the other Anons image.

>>89058530
>>89058805
>plotfags
Opinions discarded. It didn't gain the amount of critical acclaim because of plots or characters.

>>89055444
>Greatest comics
>Batman R.I.P.
>Injustice

>>89058831
The reason most of the audience connected so well with Rorschach was because he is the most traditional Superhero. Most of us connect to those black and white and superheroish ideals.
Moore was trying so hard to deliver the message that a traditional Superhero would look so retarded in a realistic setting. On top of that he made him a person who idealized the father that he never knew and the president that dropped the atomic bomb as the persons that are good and hard working Americans. It's funny that Rorschach idealized the man that ordered the nuclear strike in the name of greater good but was willing to undermine everything Adrian did. It's a layer of hypocrisy that adds to the depth of character but serves as a device for Moore's political commentary as well as commentary on the Superhero tropes as well.

>>89055364
I reckon it's the greatest. I've read it over a dozen times now, and each reread I still discover little intricacies and details.

>>89055489
I'm pretty sure that Moore has since changed his mind, though, on account of Sim's batshit misogyny etc

uh?, but this isn't MiracleMan

>>89055409
>Ennis
>Garth Ennis
>On the same level as Morrison
>Or Moore
>f u c k i n g E n n i s

>He put Ellis in there too

>>89060533
Ennis is better than Morrison. Even Moore agrees!

>>89059643
Incal.

>>89055364
Watchmen is just an edgy comic so teenagers can feel like intellectuals for reading capeshit

The best things on comic medium so far are probably Will Eisner's works and Moebius experimentations

Capeshit will never be anything more than middle schooler schlock

>>89055433
>27 - Palestine

I'm triggered

>>89060707
>tips

As far as i'm concerned, it has been surpassed.

Watchmen being "the greatest ever" is a meme perpetuated by people with tastes limited to superheros. And I mean "meme" in a cultural sense.

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>>89055364
What is Miracleman

>>89060769
>As far as i'm concerned, it has been surpassed.
Example?
>>89060887
>What is Miracleman
Moore at his most unrefined 80s?

>>89055364
A Contract With God.

I feel like Watchmen get's more recognition than it deserves because half the people who like it don't understand the satire or critique that it offers

>>89061042
it basically benefits from two audiences, people who agree with Moore and like the comic's satire, and people who didn't see the satire and like the kinds of comics it's parodying

>>89061042
>>89061061
I'll say this again and again, the deconstruction/critique part of Watchmen is just a layer. Book is much more dense than that.

>>89060930

Examples? Just to name a few:

Cerebus
Acme Novelty Library
Sandman
The mojority of Will Eisner's and Jodorowsky's work

Watchmen deserves it's place in the medium's history, but not the title of greatest ever.

>>89061096
Unfortunately, the people it influenced only see that layer.

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>>89060930
>unrefined
>yet better than Watchmen

>>89061099
Cerebus and Sandman are not even as consistent in quality. Watchmen is much more tightly constructed. I love ANL. Haven't checked out much work of Eisner's and nothing by Jodorowsky to comment.
Honestly, nothing can be classified as greatest ever. Watchmen does belong in the history as one of the greats though due to various reasons obvious.

>>89055364
>surpassed in the medium
Don't you mean in the genre? There are a lot of non geek culture oriented comics that are better than this out there.

>>89060276
"Pretty sure" isn't good enough. Provide evidence for the gut feeling that you OH SO DESPERATELY wish to be true.

>>89060754
I don't think you understand that meme and when to use it.

>>89058025
>The only people give a fuck about it is because of Art Spiegelman (however his name is spelled) having name recognition from being an artist in the New Yorker.

Eh, you do realize he created RAW? That's why he's famous.

>>89055514
>they're trying too hard to be hipsters
No, they are simply adults with taste

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>>89059643
Maus
Pyongyang
Ghost World

You want me to keep going?

>>89059643
But that would be all of them.

>>89055364
Trying to find the one best work of any medium is always futile because taste and preference ranges so widley, no individual or group can be truly objective enough to find the singular greates work out of millions.

>>89062264
I will say that objectively. Watchman has probably been the most gamechanging. Something moore didn't intend but it kind of ruined cape comics as hack writers attempted to do the damn same thing in the hopes that they'd be as popular.

Do you ever listen to specific music when reading a comic? I listened to the same song on loop while reading Watchmen for the first time.

>>89055444
I know this is a bait image but it's nice to see Antonini get some love. Awesome director. Though Il Resserto Rosso, Blow Up and Il Note are all better than La Aventura

>>89055444
>Le /lit/ meme trio
>Greatest achivement in Literature.
Hahhaha