>HE'S SUPERMAN

>MY ANUS IS BLEEDING

This episode was actually pretty dark.

>>89010625
It's kinda interesting that Superman is fine with criminals being killed as long as the state gives the thumbs up.

Although, this was back before anyone used to wank off the no-kill rule as much as they do now.

>>89011290
>Superman saves convicted murderer, poisons town

>>89011299
>"He knows too much, gas him." — Superman
>man is executed immediately even though it is usually a process that takes years of sitting on death row

>>89011292
>Superman is fine with criminals being killed as long as the state gives the thumbs up.
It wouldn't make sense if he didn't. Unless of course it were for a crime they didn't commit (see Golden Age Superman for the best example of this). Truth is, Superman doesn't want to make all the decisions for people. If the state wants to kill criminals legally, so be it.

Superman's not a fascist.

>>89011474
So Supes would be completely OK with the president using him instead of drones to execute suspects without trial just because it's considered legal by the US government?

>>89011299
Are you really allowed to execute people in a local jail?

>>89011634
No asshat, and you know exactly why.

>>89011634
>using him
No. Even the drone strikes are iffy, but he would probably just try to convince the president with words (except Golden Age Superman who would probably grab him and take him to the country he's attacking).

This is kind of why Golden Age Superman is one of my favorites.

>>89011453
The legal process in fiction always goes significantly faster than it does in reality. From arrest to sentencing can take years.

>>89011693
So he's only OK with killing as long as it's not him personally who does it? Would he be OK with using his super senses to find the people who have to be killed and send the coordinates to the drone operators?

>>89011697
Would he really? Was he ever shown to consistently care about non-American people? He didn't do anything to stop the nukes after all.

>>89011749
>Phoenix Wright 3 day trials

>>89011767
>Was he ever shown to consistently care about non-American people?
Action Comics #2. That's where I got the idea from, coincidentally.

We're Schuster and Siegel still writing Superman during WW2? Even then it would be tough to tell since most people thought it was the right thing to do.

>>89011808
>right thing to do
See this is what I hate about it. Superman shouldn't be swayed by law or public opinion, he should do the right thing. In a world where the US is one of the few countries outside of third world shitholes engaging in state-authorized murder, Supes should have a hard stance against it. It was shown in the same damn episode how easily an innocent person can be erroneously sentenced for execution.

>>89011913
What you want is Red Son Superman. Our Supes is not an authoritarian who imposes his will on others.

>>89011290
Metropolis law system way smarter than Gotham law system.

>>89011749
A clear example of the legal system being fubar. Probably intentionally so lawyers and judges can continue to be paid for nothing.

>>89011292
It's because he believes in a system of checks and balances. If he decides who lives and dies, he has no one to balance out his choice democratically.

>>89011654
From this point on, no talking.

>>89011767
Superman for a good while now has been a character who doesn't involve himself overly much in the global politics or the more complex situations at large because the effects that nations have on each other are too inscrutable to assign blame towards one specific person. It's a tit for tat that has been going back in some cases for a hundred years.

Superman therefore really only involves himself with what is considered by the public, not the DC Universe public but us the reading public, to be relatively black and white issues in mainline continuity. But even then he is beholden to the laws of the nations, otherwise he would be enforcing his will upon the world and he doesn't see himself as having the moral superiority to do so.

Superman saves people from earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, natural disasters in general because in these circumstances there isn't anyone at fault and everyone involved is simply a victim. He also saves people from being mugged, robbed, murdered, raped, and the like because the public, again us not DC, consider these to be pretty straightforwardly bad crimes. Most everyone can agree that if you rob someone you've done something bad.

He then hands them over to the government because for the most part, the public agrees that the retributions set out by the government are equal to the crimes that are generated. They public has agree that the death penalty is appropriate in certain circumstances and Superman does not gain say that.

>>89011913
>Superman shouldn't be swayed by law or public opinion, he should do the right thing.
Okay but someone has to write Superman and at the time it would be treasonous to have Superman go against the U.S. military. You also have to think about our-of-universe constraints.

>>89011474
The problem is there are some threats that only Superman is equipped to deal with, so when he dumps off Atomic Skull at at Striker's Island, and the next day 50 guards are dead and Atomic Skull is free, it makes him look like a moron.

Really the state should just legally empower Superman to be Judge Dredd. He might not like the idea, but it would be effective.

>>89011954
>If he decides who lives and dies, he has no one to balance out his choice democratically.
Maybe Superman should have an earpiece which connects him to a constantly-impaneled judge and jury who can decide whether or not Superman should kill his opponents on the fly.

>>89011978
>cont

Now, criminal punishment is always evolving as the morals of the day and age change and perhaps in 30 years the death penalty will be abolished and we'll look back at think of what savages we were to have allowed it and perhaps Superman would agree! Since he's been written as a rather compassionate individual a writer could very well say that he never approved of the death penalty, but then why did he go along with it? Because again, he does not view himself as morally superior and he knows that if he weighed in on an issue he would very easily tip the scales in whatever direction he chooses which means the public don't get to decide for themselves anymore because whatever side he chooses wins. All he can do is lead by example and show that he does not kill, that he tries to rehabilitate his villains, things of that nature so that the public might see what he's doing and think "man, maybe he's got the right idea".

>>89011945
A lot of it is that there are just so many cases and only so many people to handle them and so many hours in a day.

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>>89011993
Morrison had an interesting take on it.

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>>89012048

>>89011997
An issue perpetuated by the increasing complexity of written law, which is done only to obfuscate the fact that lawyers only exist because they insist on making justice and law into wordplay and riddles, enabled by fat cat judges more swayed by money than anything.

>>89012048
>>89012063
I... What?

Superman's just mentioning "Y'know people come back from the dead all the time." ultra casually?

>>89011989
I probably also should have mentioned that GA Superman couldn't tank a nuke.

Anyway, the beauty of Superman is that it you don't like one version you can make your own. Sure he's supposed to do the right thing, but sometimes people disagree over what the right thing is (any non-Aristotilean is wrong). So write your own stories if you disagree.

>>89012095
He would know, wouldn't he?

>>89012095
As someone who came back from the dead, he can do that.

>>89012048
>>89012063
That's not really interesting. That's almost fanboy-tier mental gymnastics to try and validate the stupidity of the no-kill rule.

>>89012095
>>89012107
>>89012108
Yeah, but most heroes still act like death's a serious issue. I mean they even partially lecture that dealing death is extreme and easy to misuse, then say almost the opposite in the next panel.

>>89011767
You haven't read a single Superman comic have you?

>>89011939
Oh? So if Luthor gets elected president and then passes laws that effectively make the lower class slaves, Supes will be totally fine with supporting that regime as long as everything was done trough the proper legal channels? I mean who cares about morality right, law is the will of the people by definition.

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>>89012168
Villains are special, hardly anyone's going to bring back civilians short of a deus ex machina (which admittedly has happened)

>>89012206
Superman doesn't interfere with drone strikes or try to build nations. He's not Apollo and the Justice League isn't The Authority.

>>89010625
[Ocean Man starts playing]

>>89011995
It's been abolished almost 20 years ago in Russia, let that sink in.

>>89012220
If Joker would get sentenced to death, would Batman bust him out? Or what if Joker escapes from death row, would Batman re-capture him knowing that he will be delivering him to his execution?

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>>89012442
In the Devil's Advocate one-shot, Joker was sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit and Batman saved him because he couldn't abide the idea of someone getting away with a crime.

>>89012486
>and when you're back out in a week murdering a busfull of kindergarteners remember... every breath you take you owe to me.

>>89012486
>sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit
Okay then. Why has he never been sentenced to death for one of the thousands he did commit? Are we to believe that the one time that he remained incarcerated long enough for the legal process to reach its conclusion was also the one time that the charges were fraudulent?

This is why people have an issue with the "no-kill" rule in capeshit. It's just too dumb sometimes.

>>89012486
>killed countless people over the years
>sentenced to death for this one crime
What was it? Also why is Bats smiling? Is he really so dumb that he doesn't know the Joker will escape and kill again?

>>89011453
>poisons town
You're not smart, are you.

>>89012525
Because that time he pled "Innocent because I didn't do it" rather than the insanity defense.

Because people don't understand the insanity defense.

>>89012542
Well what do YOU call releasing poisons into the atmosphere above a populated area?

>>89012063
Where was this guy on superman vs the elite?

>>89012564
Ah. Well at least that makes some sense within the rules of the universe. Even though the rules are retarded.

>>89011453
>>Superman saves convicted murderer, poisons town
Saves innocent man wrongfully convicted of murder, releases tiny amounts of poison gas to be dissipated on the wind.

>>89011292
Superman isn't Batman: he's a sane and healthy person who acts as a servant of the people and the law. There's no reason he shouldn't be fine with them executing convicted criminals. I mean, he may not approve of the death penalty in general, but that doesn't mean he's going to undermine the penal system.

>>89012566
Exhaling? Car exhaust? A smoke stack? A camp fire?

Fun Fact: Apple seeds contain cyanide, but if you ate one every day for your entire life you would not be progressively killing yourself.

>>89012566
Capitalism?

>>89011292
>Although, this was back before anyone used to wank off the no-kill rule as much as they do now.
No, no, it was quite in use already.

>>89011292
>It's kinda interesting that Superman is fine with criminals being killed as long as the state gives the thumbs up.
Not really.

>>89012541
People died because they licked poisoned stamps. As >>89012564 mentioned, he believed such a crime was so lacking in humor, amateurish, and beneath him that he refused to take credit for it.

>>89012638
It was in use, but people did not achieve figurative orgasm when talking about it like they do now. Only since Man of Steel does it seem to generate so much fervor from the fanboys, and especially the comic writers in the wake of it. Seriously, after MoS hit theaters, the comics were constantly finding ways to shoehorn "THERE'S ALWAYS ANOTHER WAY" into almost every story. It was embarrassing.

>>89012048
Before I looked down I thought Superman was talking to humans and I was like "WTF Superman! You can't talk to us like that, you dirty xeno!".

>>89012694
>Only since Man of Steel
I'm going to be charitable and assume you mean the John Byrne run.

>Seriously, after MoS hit theaters
Fucking moviefags.

>>89012381
Lots of things were abolished in Russia. Lots of things still happen in Russia

Also we need more heroes who kill first and don't ask questions

>>89012784
>Also we need more heroes who kill first and don't ask questions
No we don't.

>>89012744
Oh fuck off. THe no kill rule was not nearly as much of a big deal then as it is now. Yes it existed, I'm not fucking debating that, you autist, but people didn't lose their shit over it like they do now.

>>89012602
Yes, with how effective, transparent and just the US penal system is, god forbid someone undermines it. I mean, what would we ever do if it was reformed?

>>89012848
Why are there so many edgelords today?

>>89011453

Metropolis has a speed lane.

>Supes flying over Iran
>uh-oh, a woman being unfaithful to her husband, better bury her to her neck so she can be stoned
>what's that, someone leaving Islam? Better deposit him with the proper authorities so he can be put to death
>people throwing a gay person of a roof? Carry on, nothing illegal happening here
>all in a day's work for a law-abiding hero

>>89012152
I do like the battle he had with Ultraman where he explains that the fact he doesn't kill his enemies immediately means he's had to improve exponentially as a fighter and a thinker, whereas Ultraman just straight up murders fools and goes home to watch Evil Seinfeld reruns in his pjs.

>>89011634

That was a leap even Superman couldn't do!

>>89012958
>>89011290
>>89011299
It felt a little like accidental commentary that DCAU metropolis had an on screen death penalty and was even pre-superman significantly less shitty than DCAU Gotham where we don't actually see them kill anyone.

>>89012206
Luthor WAS elected president for a while, and there were quite a few issues of his comic with him trying to wrap his mind around stuff exactly like that. That was a pretty good time that was ended by Loeb in his traditional MY SON IS DEAD THEREFORE I AM NOW RETARDED AND CANNOT WRITE BUT LET ME PEN ALL THE THINGS ANYWAYS sort of way.

Fucking Public Enemies...

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>>89012848
Motherfucker, people went apeshit when Superman executed Zod and company back during Byrne's run in 1988. Do not fucking front.

>>89010625
I have to admit that this episode was quite edgy.

>>89012614
>if you ate one every day for your entire life you would not be progressively killing yourself.
If you ate a hundred a day would you eventually become Cyanide Man?

>>89013487
... yes.

But be sure to grind up the seeds so you can absorb their power more readily.

>>89012694
Snyder's playing the long game.

>>89012614
I eat like ten or twenty a month, usually in larger bunches.

>>89012960
Should do another red son like story. Allah's Son, name needs work thought as I believe muslims get angered by the idea of God having a son.

>>89014928
Reincarnation of Muhammed.

>>89012958
We know Lois take uppers, but that's too much dude.

>>89011290
>"It's Superman! Somebody stop him!"

Good luck with that, Batman's gonna need a convoluted plot to stab him with a spear and if he mentions his mother's name the entire scheme is fucked...

>>89011299
>"Killer Cop to be executed tonight"

Literally tonight. He hasn't even been tried. Superman demands it, and see above for why we can't say no.

>>89019977
>>"Killer Cop to be executed tonight"
>Literally tonight. He hasn't even been tried. Superman demands it, and see above for why we can't say no.
Literally no indication of how much time elapsed or what court proceedings he went through.

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>>89011654

>>89011207
Agreed

>>89011453
>man is executed immediately even though it is usually a process that takes years of sitting on death row

It's quite possible that the epilogue takes place years after the rest of the episode.

>Only time a character learns Superman's secret identity they're immediately written out of the show

>>89020217
Yeah, that's logical. Good thing he didn't learn he'd survived during the trial in which Clark Kent would probably have been a witness and realise it there and then, because then he'd have sat there ruminating on failing to kill Clark Kent for years before he finally realised it.

(It occurs to me the guy might have just been a fucking idiot since IIRC he did try to shoot at and escape from Superman using a helicopter.)

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>>89012694
>yfw DC makes a faithful adaptation of Golden-Age Superman, murder and all.

>>89012381
So were free elections, what's your point?

>>89011913
>state-authorized murder
murder is by definition the killing of someone *illegally*

>>89012095

You don't see Morrison doing that?

>>89014928
>>89015027
Red Son only worked because of the fall of communism, just like Overman only works because nazi germany doesn't exist.

Islam is a whole different thing. Also you'd have to criticize certain parts of Islam and even if you did the Western liberal thing of pretending that "Islamism has nothing to do with Islam! Sharia? What's that?" you'd still end up getting terror threats because it is impossible to portray Islam in fiction in a way that isn't offensive to some extremist group.

>>89012095
Morrison does that a lot.

In Final Crisis Superman "prays for a resurrection" at Martian Manhunter's funeral.

>>89011945
Or, you know, being careful so that even more innocent people aren't killed or have their ability to function in society destroyed.

>>89011290
>Metropolis has timely death penalty for criminals
>better city to live in than Gotham where Batman doesn't kill

really makes you think