>Every single character is a teenage, possibly gender-swapped

Kamela just has the same power set as Mr. Fantastic.

>Every single character is a teenage, possibly gender-swapped version of an established character.

You mean just like teen titans?

>>88859799
Damn, nice retort buddy, except this wasn't a Company Wars thing, so why don't you upload an image of current Teen Titans as another example of what I'm talking about if its true, rather than being defensive for no reason?

You forgot Cyclops isn't even a shitty legacy character, he's literally himself from the past when he was a teenager brought to the present, because clearly Marvel didn't have enough retarded time travel bullshit yet.

Why does teen Cyclops look so small?

>>88859755
>possibly gender-swapped
>Amadeus Cho's just a r63 version of She-Hulk
>Nova is just a r63 version of Frankie Raye's stint as Galactus' herald
I can believe that

>>88860252
Time compression made him shorter.

>>88859799
Robin is a given, but who are Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven younger teenage versions of, exactly?

>>88859853
Is there even a name for this kind of character
Aside from shit?

File: image.jpg (329KB, 1000x1537px) Image search: [Google]

329KB, 1000x1537px

>>88859755
Waid does not get teens,few writers do plus ramos art is an eye sore.Individualy I've liked every character on this team except for miles in there own books.In champions there all flanderized,Kamala is a bitchy boss lady,cho a dude bro,Cyclops a blue ranger,Viv stiff robot and miles/Sam slackers.Unlike pic related it feels like waid is writing his idea of what teen heroes are like and this unintentionally whiny.As a concept the book is alright but it's execution has been dreadful

>>88859790
Not true mr fantastic can't shape shift and heal,only stretch,and Kamala isn't stretching she's making parts of her body bigger or smaller.I blame ramos art for making the difference hard to see

>>88859755
you realize that the vast majority of teen team books ever have been terrible, right?

Just because there Titans and X-Men that worked out ok doesn't mean that this genre has been a fountain of quality.
Or have you forgotted, say New Warriors, or Slingers, or whatever that spinoff of the runaways was, or later runs of runaways themselves, or deadbeat dad Cable kidnaps some mutant orphans or whatever it was called, or Red Hood and the Blow Up Dolls?

>>88860367
>martian manhunter, firestorm, zatanna
cyborg stands alone

>>88860747
Its more about the teen heroes they're pushing, and who they decide to put on a team is the perfect representation of who Marvel wants people to like.

The fact that they're all rehashes of old characters who are still around (or will be around again in 6 months) just defeats the purpose of introducing them in the first place.

>>88859755
At least cyclops still white and straight.

>>88859755
>Every single character is a teenage, possibly gender-swapped version of an established character.

>Batman/Robin
>Captain America/Bucky
>Green Arrow/Speedy
>Aquaman/Aqualad
>IronMan/Rhody(Given he isn't a tenn)
>Human Torch/Sungirl

There's many more but I don't feel like naming them. But yea it's always been this way.

>>88859755
Super heroes are just costumes/titles that can be used by anyone. Why does everyone want to tie them to characters that can't grow anymore?

>>88860934
1. None of those old heroes are actually disappearing in any meaningful way
2. Its inarguably lazy to just make a new hero that has the same power set, motif and title of a hero that already exists.

>>88860919
And one part of the Marvel formula that really shook things up was to have teen heroes like Spider-Man that weren't an established heroes sidekick. Of course nowadays they don't even bother with the sidekick to mantle technique, they just have the original hero drop by in issue 1 to tell their copycat they're awesome.

>>88860934
>Why does everyone want to tie them to characters that can't grow anymore?


They are still making new stories for Superman that flesh him out more and more as a character. He's been around longer than any of the characters at Marvel so your argument is automatically irrelevant.

>>88860335
I don't remember She-Hulk ever being so toxicly obnoxious.

>>88859755
why do they all look like they just caught a whiff of a hella nasty fart and they're looking around for who to blame it on

>>88861160
>Its inarguably lazy to just make a new hero that has the same power set, motif and title of a hero that already exists.

Really wouldn't call it lazy as long as the hero himself have an original back ground. It doesn't take much to create a power set. With what I see with Marvel they just don't want to do that.

>None of those old heroes are actually disappearing in any meaningful way

They're not really disappearing at all. Most of them are still around jerking around.

>>88861160
>Its inarguably lazy to just make a new hero that has the same power set, motif and title of a hero that already exists.

I mean if we look back:

>>88860919

None of these characters had their own power set when original introduced either. They were just an extension of their Hero.

File: 1482220318117.jpg (149KB, 550x733px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 550x733px

>tfw no teen cosmic team with best girl

>1 white male
>diversity means almost no white people

can't make this shit up

>>88860788
>Zatanna is Raven
It's a stretch but I guess they're close enough
>Martian Manhunter is Beast Boy
No
>Firestorm is Starfire
What the fuck?

>>88859755

man is it really worth the effort getting so mad over irrelevant bullshit? not even like "comics don't matter" but there's always take offs on established characters.

>>88862028
There's only, 1 black, 1 chinese, 1 arab there too. On top of that there's 1 and a half white person there.

File: young justice.jpg (108KB, 450x560px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 450x560px

>Every single character is a teenage, possibly gender-swapped version of an established character.
How can this creative bankruptcy be defended? When did teen heroes become so terrible?

File: teen titans.jpg (101KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1024x768px

>>88859755
>Every single character is a teenage, possibly gender-swapped version of an established character.
How can this creative bankruptcy be defended? When did teen heroes become so terrible?

>>88862065
Hulk race swapped from white
Ms Marvel race swapped from white
Spiderman races wapped from white
Nova race swapped from white

can't make this shit up

>>88862186
>Ms Marvel race swapped from white
Ms Marvel is still alive and has an ongoing.

>Spiderman races wapped from white
Spiderman is still alive and has an ongoing.

>Nova race swapped from white
Nova is still alive. This Nova is still white.

They're legacies. Just legacies who are different races from the original. They're not the same character, because race swapping would imply they just made that character a different race, they're different characters with different backgrounds from the originals.

>>88862050
Not him but,
>2 green shapeshifters with dead families
>2 flame headed hotties that just wanna bang

>>88862028
>>88862186
They're really separate characters and aren't even on the main Avengers team. Well a few of them aren't.

>>88860367
The original Teen Titans were Robin, Speedy, Wonder Girl, Aqua Lad, and Kid Flash.

>>88862242

the funniest thing to me is the people bitching like Peter and Carol and all the other white heroes they love still have books and are around.

>>88862358
No one remembers the original TT, anon.

>>88862368
Peter and Carol ARE still around and who the fuck loved Carol so much that they cared who she was? Very few people gave a shit about Ms. Marvel before AND after death. Now she's back and still hollow and devoid of character.

>>88862384
Dan Abnett does.

>>88862368
Literally all those are still around except for Hulk.

>>88860443
Your poc related is more like young adults and hipsters than teens

ITT: It's okay when DC does it.

>>88864957
It's less that it's okay only when DC does it and more that is argument is pretty dumb to begin with. It's fine when any company does it, as long as the writing isn't shit.

>>88864957
It was okay when Marvel did it with Avengers Academy, but for some reason they destroyed all the characters of the run.

>>88859799
you're retarded

>>88865005
Teen characters always have a high mortality rate.

>>88865022
How is that retarded? The Teen Titans were invented as mini versions of the Justice League heroes.

>>88859755
Marvel doesn't know how to do sidekicks or legacies. Or really characters at all.

>>88859799
>Robin
>Starfire
>Beast Boy
>Cyborg
>Raven

So who is the adult Robin or Starfire, again?

>>88865102
Do you believe that those are the founding members of the Teen Titans?

>>88862242
Sam was speaking Spanglish in the first issue of Nova to remind people he's Hispanic

File: 4296288-batmanandrobin.png (2MB, 2310x2841px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2310x2841px

>>88865102
>So who is the adult Robin

>>88865126
iconic members take precedence over founding members

>>88865127
And he stripped to his undies to make sure you saw he is brown.

>>88862358
Here's the difference, though: Robin, Wonder Girl, Speedy, Aqualad and Kid Flash aren't teenaged legacies that replaced their predecessors. They're sidekicks who exist alongside their partners.

>>88865150
That's Batman, not Robin.

>>88865178
Robin and Kid Flash both ended up replacing their predecessors. And the adult Vision, Spider-Man, Ms Marvel, and Nova are all still around.

>>88865205
Batman is the adult Robin.

Cyclops is just one big tender vulnerability. Someone needs to attach an iron man armor to his punch dimension.

>>88859755
You can fuck one member of the Champions. Which do you choose?

>>88865287
Viv

>>88865213
Yeah but that was after years of buildup. Rhodey replaced Tony and everyone was fine with it, and people wouldn't complain as much about Falcon replacing Cap if they hadn't replaced everybody else at the same time.

There's a big difference between a character like Miles or Reeree being created to take over a mantle, and s character who already existed taking up a mantle.

Miles replaced the dead Ultimate Peter, and Dick was dead until recently.

>>88865178
The only character who isn't co-existing with their hero is Hulk. Everyone is alive and still prominent.

>>88865329
Is Cyclops alive again?

>>88865127
Yes, because he's White Hispanic. I don't think you understand what being Hispanic means.

File: shota senses are tingling.jpg (801KB, 1882x1218px) Image search: [Google]

801KB, 1882x1218px

>>88865287
Definitely Sam.

>>88865366
Well now, Cyclops is another case. Cyclops IS Cyclops.

>>88865366
Well with Cyclops, the Cyclops in Champions is still the original Cyclops, just time displaced.

>>88865373
When he never did anything of the sort before this run, it comes off as hamfisted.

>>88865287
All of them at once.

>>88865497
>he never did anything of the sort before this run, it comes off as hamfisted.

In his first comic they established he was Hispanic. How is that hamfisted? Please explain.

>>88860788
none of those are even close other than some light themes. might as well say that everyone with shapechanging powers is ripping off the scarlet Pimpernil.

And Cyborg is clearly based off of Robot Man.

>>88865497
>When he never did anything of the sort before this run
But they did say he was Hispanic before this run. I don't know where you think they're pulling it out their ass. I assumed before then he knew Spanish seeing his mom and shit.

File: Teen_titans_01_1966.jpg (44KB, 250x372px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 250x372px

>>88859755
>Every single character is a teenage, possibly gender-swapped version of an established character.
>How can this creative bankruptcy be defended? When did teen heroes become so terrible?

>>88865666
blurting out Spanglish is something we've never seen Sam or his family do before. It's not exactly something you just start doing.

>>88865666
>>88865704
I'm talking about the Spanglish stuff. In 4 years, he never talked like that at all. It just comes off as weird and out of nowhere. Like how King made Kyle in Omega Men suddenly into some devout Catholic saying prayers in Spanish despite him never acknowledging that side of his family at all or being religious.

>>88865792
Being that he's Hispanic it's not something beyond his ethnic dimensions either. Just because you never seen him do it before doesn't mean he couldn't.

>>88865813
In 4 years had they established he didn't know Spanish?

>>88865792
>>88865813

....Okay, what's the problem? He's hispanic and he knows Spanish.

File: 1453750261587.jpg (72KB, 634x634px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 634x634px

>>88865890
Like I've said twice, it comes off as hamfisted. The first few pages of a new run where they've noticeably darkened him he's talking in Spanglish to his mother and talking about going to a Dia de los Reyes festival when he's never even done this kind of stuff before. I have no problem with him being Spanish or them playing up the roots, just don't throw all your shit on the table at once as it looks ridiculous.

>>88859755
>When did teen heroes become so terrible?
How many teen characters are spin offs of adult characters?
>Aquagirl
>Aqualad
>Arrowette
>Batgirl
>Blue Beetle
>Bucky
>Hawkeye
>Impulse
>Iron Lad
>Kid Flash
>Miss Martian
>Namorita
>Ravager
>Robin
>Speedy
>Spidergirl
>Spoiler
>Stargirl
>Superboy
>Supergirl
>Tomcat
>Torro
>Wonder Girl
>Zachary Zatarra

>>88866004
>The first few pages of a new run where they've noticeably darkened him he's talking in Spanglish to his mother and talking about going to a Dia de los Reyes festival when he's never even done this kind of stuff before.

There still lies the fact that he was Hispanic. Also, he's being written with a new writer's take on the character. It's not like they made him speak Afrikaners and ask about a Public Enemy concert. He's doing things that are possible within the realms of his character.

>just don't throw all your shit on the table at once as it looks ridiculous.

Would them doing this slowly make it any better for you? What way of approaching this would you be okay with?

>>88866130
>Would them doing this slowly make it any better for you?

Yes Anon, I literally just said that. Don't blow your entire load in a single page going "Hello fellow Mexicans". Since family has been such a huge part of Sams run, have him go to some family reunion when he got back from space in an attempt to deal with the loss of his father again and introduce all the Spanish shit there with his mothers side of the family. That's more organic and could be played off as character development rather than a way to differentiate Sam and Rich.

>>88866237
The point is, what's the difference of them showing it in one pages and continuing to build on it than them doing it slowly?

The overall message is still the same nad it's "He's Hispanic everybody." All it sounds like you're talking about is "Do this the way I want it to be done and not the way you want it done."

>>88866237
This argument makes no sense at all. Why would you have an issue with him being Hispanic and then imply they should emphasize him being Hispanic in another way. I don't understand this logic.

>>88866310
I just want it to be organic and not completely out of nowhere, but it's not going to change so I'm done trying to explain myself.

>>88866341
>Why would you have an issue with him being Hispanic and then imply they should emphasize him being Hispanic in another way.

Because I don't have an issue with him being Hispanic, read the chain. I have a problem with them going full on "How do you do fellow kids" with the introduction of the Spanish elements.

>>88866400
>I just want it to be organic and not completely out of nowhere, but it's not going to change so I'm done trying to explain myself.

Still don't get it. Him speaking Spanish isn't somethign that didn't pop up out of nowhere. The character is Hispanic so it's safe to assume he can speak it.

>>88859832
He's just saying that there's a precedent for it among teen hero teams when the most popular and well known teen hero team is exactly that.

File: theyaredoingitwrongnow.gif (431KB, 900x1294px) Image search: [Google]

431KB, 900x1294px

>>88859755

>>88860443
That's mostly rich gay kids. They're hated because they'll drug you and rape you. Or just are whiny rich kids.

>>88861926
it's a shallow and lazy attempt to include progressive characters without taking any risk. if spiderman sells than black spiderman can probably sell