Was Bill a shitty villain?

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Bill in his first season appearance came off as a trickster who may or may not have been evil. Sort of like a bad-wish genie whose personality was more reflective of the one who summoned him.

By the end though his whole "do weird shit and torment people for the hell of it" really made no sense. He became an immature frat boy without a real plan and sat around for three episodes in his pyramid partying for no real reason. They didn't really do a whole lot to explain his dimension, what happened to it, why he was the way he was, or what good invading Earth would do for him.

>>88769261
He was a fucking moron

>>88769261
>They didn't really do a whole lot to explain his dimension,

Flatland

>what happened to it,

He destroyed it but this is probably what we know the least about.

>why he was the way he was,

It's right there in the image you posted. He lived in an extremely strict society and it eventually wore him down so much he snapped. Being practically immortal frustration snowballed for a lot longer than your average person.

>or what good invading Earth would do for him.

His current dimension was self destructing, it was get out or die.

Hirsch's quirky super-natural self insert

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>when you rewatch the series and realize that every episode featuring Bill as a major role besides Dreamscraperers sucked

>>88769261
The living embodiment of Nightmare Fuel is definitely up there with Aku in terms of being the most lethal cartoon villain to date.

The only reason Bill lost fairly easily is because the creator burned out.

>>88769568
i liked sock opera

>>88769568
Sock Opera was pretty great.

>>88769261
He was great most of the time, only became generic and boring in the finale. They should have kept this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq5sZPPF9ao

>>88769668
No it wasn't

>>88769568
I liked the others.

He was a much better villain than all the shitastical recent first party Disney Villains. Same thing with Master Xehanort and Lotso Huggin' Bear being better than most mainline villains.

>>88769360
Why's that?

>>88769568
What was wrong with sock opera?

>>88769752
I think part of the reason is that most recent mainline ones don't have much time to be actually villainous, with Hans and Bellwhether not being revealed as villains until the climax and Tamatoa only being in once scene.

>>88769436
What do you mean?

>>88769690
I suppose it would've made a pretty good villain song

I liked him more as a neutral entity with a mysterious agenda and a such an alien concept of good an evil that no mortal could ever classify him as either.
He wasn't such an awful villain as most people say, but it was still quite a downgrade from the original concept.

>>88769261
If Gravity Falls was given another season, and the previous episodes has had Bill having subtle roles then he could of worked.

Outside of "oh whoa guys, he's a demon" he is pretty boring.

>>88770265

He had the power to do anything

And he lost

How do you lose when you can do literally anything

I didn't expect him to win, I just didn't think it'd be that easy to trick him

>inb4 autists who think Bill should have taken Dipper and Ford away to his own dimension to be his futa sex slaves

>>88770868
Are you asking for oc anon?

>>88770845
He had Dipper, Mabel, Gideon, and Pacifica all in positions where he could've easily killed them, and as far as he knows they're the keys to the only thing that could defeat him, but he didn't.

>>88769261
At the end he was

>>88770943
Well, I will give him credit, he did almost kill Mabel. And knowing Bill, it was probably gonna be in some spectacularly gruesome way.

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>>88769261

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>>88769261
Superior Triangle coming through

>>88770966
I think under different circumstances Bill and Mabel would have gotten along.

>>88771419
He actually got his theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2ZIdmfMc5o

>>88771448
Maybe that's why he went easy on her and put her in the bubble instead of just making her head explode when he had the chance.

>>88771419
YES
YES
YES
IT'S THE

>>88771911
DEAD
BODY
LOOTIN'

He was of the scariest villains I've ever seen in a cartoon. Demons play with your thoughts and trick you so easily, theyre of the most dangerous and scariest things. It was even better that he was so abstract. Turned out to be shit just because of the finale, I guess Hirsch made him so OP that he couldnt come up with a good idea to defeat him. Such a disapointment and waste of character

>>88771681
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm pretty sure Bill said before that Mabel was his favourite out of the twins. They both have the creative chaos thing going on just in different ways.

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>>88772007
On the other hand, Mabel was likely the one he was about to kill.

>>88772042
Gotta put down a dog that keeps biting.

I actually enjoyed Bill turning out to be a trashy little tramp.

>>88772067
She was a bitch, come to think of it.

>>88773173
By trashy little tramp, do you mean like a street urchin, or like a back alley whore?

>>88769568
Everything after Into The Bunker just doesn't feel the same anymore.

>>88773202
Why that episode specifically?

>>88773191
More of the latter. The heavy drinking kind.

>>88772042
I've noticed fanfics tend to make that scene a lot more dramatic than it was in the show.

>>88774042
Any examples?

>>88774121
http://archiveofourown.org/works/8642749
http://archiveofourown.org/works/8824912/chapters/20233012
http://archiveofourown.org/works/7361929/chapters/16721404

A few I found.

>>88774121
Also, these

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12274106/1/Picking-Up-The-Pieces

http://archiveofourown.org/works/8855953

>>88769261
Yes. He's not charismatic, not scary even by kids cartoons standards, not memorable in any way and extremely obnoxious.

>>88774228
And fans just can't seem to stop pairing him up with the 12 year old boy whose family he constantly torments

>>88769261
He's definitely one of the better villains of the 2010s, who falls into the same trap as Amon in a lot of ways in that once he actually reaches endgame his character just sort of plateaus and never goes anywhere.

It was cool at first because we're all used to shows that get cancelled before they can hit a serious world breaking endgame (or the villain is stopped just before the world goes to hell, or time travel, or some other bullshit), but it results in the frustrating situation where the villain is put in a position of incredible power but for some reason never does anything with it.

Bill is a really good setup for a dark elder god horror type abomination, but he never really hits that point during the series, which ultimately hurts all of his other appearances.

In other words, Bill does a good job of hiding scary, but he never does a good job of being scary.

>>88774518
It probably doesn't help that he spent Weirdmageddon stuck in one town.

>>88774228
I think Bill was plenty charismatic, enough to make young girls develop a taste for geometry.

>>88774660
You can't fuck a pyramid.

>>88774759
He has a mouth and a tongue.

>>88774802
And hands

>>88770845
>>88770922
He reaches a point where he literally controls time and space and can rearrange matter at an atomic level just by thinking about it.

He still needs to run after two kids to catch them instead of stopping time around them, or making them teleport into his hand, etc.

He turns into a giant demonic form that has no real purpose outside of looking creepy for the scene, as he needed the kids alive to blackmail Ford anyways.

I also do not understand why a creature with the sole motivation of spreading chaos has such a hindering, self-imposed rule of only being able to enter the minds of those he shakes hands with.

Bill was a fun character all the way through, but wasn't really that great of a villain by the end. He wasn't bad either, just generic rule the world kind of deal.

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gotta love Gompers

>>88774858
And can create holes in his body

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>>88773213
It was possibly the last great episode of the series.

That's not to say everything after that sucked, but things did noticeably go downhill

>>88774903
It was pretty much the only episode where Wendy was at all useful.

>>88774958
She was always useful for my dick

>>88773202
>Into The Bunker
>no Not What He Seems
bruh, S2A is excellent for the most part.

>>88774865
Gompersanon, is that really you?
I thought you were dead.

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>>88775226
>S2A is excellent for the most part
You know everyone gives S2A some praise because of the badness of S2B but in reality the only notable episodes were Into the Bunker, Giffany's episode, Pacifica's two episodes, and NWHS.

Sock Opera gets some praise in this thread too for some reason but it was really just another Boyfriend of the Day episode for Mabel where Bill just shows up and turns Dipper into masochist/fujoshit bait.

>>88775493
What about Society of the Blind Eye?

>>88775536
Ended up meaning fuck-all except for giving the Pines that memory wiping gun for enforcing status quo in later episodes.

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>>88775493
I know it didn't really go anywhere but Sock Opera is the one that acknowledges the sacrifices Dipper made for Mabel. Also it dealt with the laptop.

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>>88775536
>>88775545
Also, that's one of the first episodes where Dana Terrace's feminist bullshit started being slipped into episodes, with Mabel and Wendy's "Men are pigs m i rite?" scene.

>>88769261
he was the demonic trickster fairy. Wielding immense power well beyond the hero's reach, but held back by their unpredictable personality/direction.

I thought he would have been the prelude to a larger force, so I was pretty disappointed when he ended up being the final villain, the biggest bad to the very end.

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>>88775274
in the flesh

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>>88769261
Would've been infinitely more enjoyable if Alex worked harder to get David Lynch to voice him.

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>>88775588

>>88775493
Plus, the whole episode was pretty much just Dipper suffering.

>>88775700
Or Weird Al.

>>88775809
The best kind of episode

He was a shitty main villain.
As a villain of the week he was highly entertaining but was just to none threatening to be the central antagonist.

He only appeared twice and lost miserably. His powers only function in the most arbitrary of ways and his end goal is more silly then scary.

The only thing he had going for him was the idea that this Omnipotent person has hints and influenced history, except they do absolutely nothing with it. It doesn't matter if the main bad is in everyone dollar bills, if it in no way effects the story, characters or environment their in then it's just pointless backstory that adds nothing.

Bill should've been a side-kick to another main bad.

>>88769261
i never understood why people liked him.
he wasnt funny,wasnt threatning and all the interesting stuff about him wasnt shown in the show, but in books and other stuff.Yeah he was a shit villain.
The only good thing about him is the design.

He only became threatening when he was angry and started breaking reality. Problem is that his base personality was supposed to be suave tempter meaning for him to actually be a threat to the protagonists he had to, for lack of better description, throw a tantrum. Breaking reality because he's CE randumb is fine but he has to be consistent.

>>88769338
i agree

>>88775536
>all that build up and then taken out immediately
perhaps it was a sign that any human group antagonist would be dealt with in one episode and never touched on again

>>88775864
Too bad there's no episode that's just Mabel suffering.

>>88776349
Like the government agents

>>88776463
Take solace in the fact that she at least didn't get a bf.

>>88771111
quads don't lie, that was some pretty good shit

>>88776525
I think she should've gone with Jeff, to be honest.

>>88776617
Why would a quadriplegic lie?

>>88776261
Pretty much, yeah.

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>>88771448

>>88778555
What the hell is that?

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>>88778594
Japan

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>>88778688

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>>88778709

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>>88778732

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>>88778754

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>>88778777
And that's the last of whatever this is.

>>88769338
/thread

>>88778864
thread/

>>88769261
He was a fantastic villain until parts 2 and 3 of the finale. Before that he was intimidating, yet funny and interesting. He felt like a legitimate threat to the world.

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>>88769338
This right here. Plus they had to nerf him all to hell and back just to get that happy ending they wanted.

I think it would have been better if he was built up to be a huge but mysterious menace and in he end turned out to be just a party animal who wanted to try that newfangled "physical form" thing all the cool kids seemed to be doing. Also, I would blow pic related from here to next year.

>>88769261
He was incredibly disappointing.

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>>88771419
This. Bill is a loser.

>>88769261
He was great as an asshole trickster. Didn't much care for the attempt to make him a more serious, world destroying villain.

Bill never struck me as a "final boss" character. He always seemed like the kind of guy who would be pushed around by a greater demon or something.

Kind of wish that was the case, as the finale was super disappointing.

>>88780259
>not willingly blowing his triangle form
Weak

>>88781129
Why do people humanise him so much?

>>88782219
They are casuals who feel too uncomfortable with sexualizing a triangle.

>>88775582
It acknowledges the sacrifices Dipper made for Mabel, but the show never does anything with that, in the episode or in the rest of the series.
It's honestly more annoying that they mention it but nothing ever happens with it.

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The show and Bill was restricted by the channel it was aired on. He had had been set up as this Cthulhu-esque horror entity, but they simply couldn't follow through with it because that would've been too much for a family/kids show.

>>88782714
But the "sacrifices" Dipper made for Mabel were mostly either giving up a job he didn't need in order to help someone (who wasn't even Mabel), or giving up his retarded plan to impress a girl he had no chance with so Mabel could have the pet she rightfully one in the original timeline.

>>88780355

Eh. The only thing that pissed me off was that weasly little shit Gideon suddenly getting redeemed for no reason at all while Pacifica's parents suddenly become poor due to Daddy Northwest trying to make a deal with Bill despite Gideon actually fucking working for him.

Even worse is that the epilogue shows he's possibly still a sociopathic piece of shit.

>>88783429
>poor
they lost one mansion and a chunk of of their disposable income for that year. it's not like every single enterprise they owned went up in flames

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>>88769261
Supposedly he was supposed to become Dipper's friend, but because the show was ended on such short notice, they needed a main villian so they made him muh evil.

>>88782964
Mystery Inc. managed.

>>88783519
Did they own any enterprises? I'm not sure it's explained how they got rich.

>>88783869
scooby doo was on CN.

Disney provides lots of dosh, but comes with more restrictive storytelling

>>88783920
>I'm not sure it's explained how they got rich
I thought they got rich with all of that founder bullshit.

>>88769415
>Flatland

Like as in 2D world? Should he be less powerful than a normal person then? Trickster imps with godlike powers are supposed to come from planes with MORE dimensions than ours

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He was a shit villain as far as being the final villain goes because he was never supposed to be the final villain.

Hirsch got whiny and tired about following through with whatever fuck huge story he had in his head and kept hinting at in interviews and just did whatever he could to finish it so hey, just go with what's there.

Honestly that was one of the hugest problems with the series, it wasn't even just what was in the series, it was all the shit Hirsch kept on talking in interviews that NEVER panned out.

"Oooh Dipper and Stan's relationship will never be the same and the trust between them is completely broken"

Cue the next episode where Dipper immediately forgives him with no issues whatsoever.

"Who is the TRUE villain of Gravity Falls? Such a mystery!"

Oh yeah, we'd never guess that the fucking recurring triangle bad guy is the villain, what a fucking revelation.

And that's not even counting the shit he was setting up in the supplementary materials. Honestly, the series ended badly enough WITHOUT him running off his mouth, it's just worse because we know it ended badly because he's lazy not because he's necessarily incompetent.

And before any Hirsch white knights come in screaming about how hard it is to work for Disney and direct a show, tough shit.

Nobody said it wasn't hard but as a professional you have to put up with it, and considering how many show runners would have sold one of their kidneys just for one more season despite all the shit that comes with it, when Hirsch got approved for all three and almost quit after the one and then straight up gave up halfway through the second he just comes off as a crybaby.

>>88769261
I was waiting for the female deer to turn into some kind of Guardian

>>88784343
Most of the subplots seemed to be left unresolved.

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>>88783931
Hell, if it was under a different network it would have more than likely had it's full 3 seasons instead of a half-assed second due to burning out under disneys strict regulation Not that I wouldn't expect alex to have burned himself out anyways

>>88784343
I'm glad I don't have weapons-grade autism and never gave a shit about anything outside of the show. Feels like I missed out on absolutely nothing, I'd strongly recommend it the next time you get invested in a children's cartoon show on the fucking Disney channel.

>>88785084

And there it is, the exact backtracking cowardly arguments of every hack creator and shilling fanbase.

You don't get to go hurr durr just a kid's show when the creator itself makes a HUGE hullabaloo about "not just a kid's show guiz, we're trying to do something different, take us seriously, WE'RE DIFFERENT" and then when shit turns to shit then turn it around on the audience and go "herp derp it's a kid's show whut were you expecting, lol,."

It's a straight up chickenshit tactic to deflect criticism. You either get to make a kid's show with no pretensions and delusions of grandeur, or you own up to whatever you fucking try to make into a more serious thing.

If you couldn't handle doing it you couldn't handle doing it, but you don't get to blame the audience for their expectations after talking it up nonstop and making it bigger than what it is.

And honestly I will follow whatever fucking piece of western animation has a chance of taking the medium to a point that it's treated as a medium and not as a vehicle to either shill toys or family guy clones, and fact is because most of the budget lies with kid shit, the biggest chance of something changing things is with kid shit due to the scope of audience it reaches.

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>>88782219
>Why do people humanise him so much?
Because he's sexier that way.

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>>88785654
>bill
>being a nigger
no way

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>>88785654
>>88786106
This is superior humanized Bill

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>>88785654
>>88786106
>>88786748

Yeah. He had no real motivations or desires and Wei never really learnedly much about him. But he was incredibly amusing and basically was just an obstacle for the main cast to hit their arc pinnacles on. So I didn't mind that much.

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>>88776261
Well, such a character can be threatening without throwing a temper tantrum, but I doubt Disney would ever go that dark.

>>88786748
>>88786106
>>88785654
I personally like the brown Middle Eastern Deity look

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>>88786876

>>88785654
Humanised is just a gateway to full triangle.

>>88786876
That barely even looks like a human, but I get what Hirsch was trying to do here

>>88789476
I think it would make sense when you consider Bill probably doesn't really get how human anatomy works.

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Bill is simply trying to distract himself. He pursues greater and greater powers and chaos, all in the hopes that the next thing he obtains will finally bring him happiness and satisfaction, But the truth is that he will never be happy, and he also needs to keep going so he can never dwell on things long enough to accept that.

>>88785357
Pretty much, yeah.

>>88778555
>>88778688
>>88778709
>>88778732
>>88778754
>>88778777
>>88778800
Mabel looks so cute in animu.

>>88769568
oh my GOD when did he get so hot? he looks so much like my ex

>>88793879
Pacifica is a female, take that back!

>>88792346
It's why he drinks.

>>88794129
He's talking about Hirsch

>>88794308
That was the joke, yes.

>>88794480
oh

>>88786106
It's called a tan, /pol/tard. A sexy, sexy tan.

>>88786876
Hirsch confirmed for uber-troll.

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For some reason... I just wanna post this

>>88771419
>>88771499
Nuclear Throne may have been a buggy piece of shit, but it had good music and good characters. Sadly those are the only two things you need to stay afloat in most scenarios nowadays.

>>88796265
Why?

>>88797239
Mabel x YV forever

>1st appearance: Defeated by three people with no prior experience with demons.

>2nd appearance: defeated singlehandedly by a little girl.

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>>88793394
she's always cute

>>88769338
>They didn't really do a whole lot to explain his dimension, what happened to it

I remember what happened to that dimension. He fucking destroyed it along with its citizens because he found it too boring.

Then again, /co/ just loves nitpicking the second half of the second season to death to get back at Hirsh for the prank he pulled on this board. So I'm not surprised /co/ intentionally pulls bullshit like this.

>>88769261

>No background to speak of
>No character arc
>No motivation
>No passion

Yes, he was a completely shitty villain.

Even a comparatively bland villain like Ultron or the Anti-Monitor - who are evil simply because they are - works if he is passionate. Bill was just a 'for the lulz' type villain. Fuck that shit. There is only one villain (maaaybe, in a pinch, two) who can carry that off, and he's got green hair.

>>88799129
>I was just pretending to be a shitty writer!

Go away, Alex

>>88799476
I'm not Alex, you dingus. Didn't you see my username?

>>88799433
His motivation is making it out of a collapsing universe.

>>88799879
Still not very interesting

>>88800917
Escaping from a hellhole and crafting his idea of a perfect world is plenty motivation. Not liking a motivation doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>>88800975
Sure, but in the end he was basically a demonic frat boy.

>>88801144
Right but there's a big difference between that and 'evil just for evil's sake'. Bill thought his world would be a better world.

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>>88801331
>Bill thought his world would be a better world.

>>88801816
I'm just pointing out that it's a motive other than 'evil'

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>>88769261
Why is it that Bill feels like he fell flat as the series went on, but this motherfucker still kept his emotional weight even though his episodes were much shorter?

>>88803103
Because he didn't have time to drop the ball.

>>88803303
So how could we have prevented Bill from dropping the ball?

>>88769261
Of course

>>88803397
I think a lot could have been avoided simply by not making him so powerful. He had to act like an idiot or he would never have been defeated.

>>88776084
Yeah
A triangle cyclops with a top hat is a grand design

>>88775700
>David Lynch was on The Cleveland Show but not Gravity Falls

>>88783749
>Supposedly he was supposed to become Dipper's friend
I can't see it

>>88783749
[citation needed]

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I'm glad I keep running into these GF threads

happy new year, gentlemen

>>88803719
I've heard that before but I pretty sure they also said Bill would have betrayed Dipper later.
I know in very early concepts Bill was just going to be a minor character who took a liking to fucking with dipper telling him things like 'bush did 9/11' at night or pretending to be Wendy.

>>88799129
What prank?

>>88803837
He fake leaked that McGucket was the author.

>>88786876
>>88787264
>What if Tim Burton Made Gravity Falls?

>>88769261
The shittiest.

The entire plot was resolved before the final episode and all he did was job while becoming less and less appealing a premise. His motives were laughable in the end.

>>88803858
And /co/ got mad?

>>88803903
As a whole, no I don't remember much of that but I'm sure there were a few mad that they fell for it.

>>88803903
Not really

The rage would come later

>>88803103
He was flat to begin with.

>>88803894
Which plot was resolved before the final episode?

>>88803971
When?

>>88805682
By the time Alex broke up with Manzi and 2B startted

>>88803103
Because he wasn't an obnoxious clown with no menacing presence like Bill. Because his manipulations and monstrous acts were more personal and terrifying.

>>88801816
Is EVE really that boring?

>>88799433
>and he's got green hair.
Hell, no. Joker is the absolute worst.

https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/815460506387349504

>>88803786
>Pretending to be Wendy

That's my fetish.

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>>88808962
>Alex isn't ga-

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>>88810401

>>88784917
>Hell, if it was under a different network it would have more than likely had it's full 3 seasons instead of a half-assed second due to burning out under disneys strict regulation Not that I wouldn't expect alex to have burned himself out anyways
I hate that people keep thinking this. Gravity Falls ending in the second season was fully Alex's choice, not Disney's. IIRC the hiatuses were actually made to see if Alex would change his mind.

>>88771111
fucking witnessed the dub dubs and quads


Bill confirmed shit villian

>>88785357
>And honestly I will follow whatever fucking piece of western animation has a chance of taking the medium to a point that it's treated as a medium and not as a vehicle to either shill toys or family guy clones, and fact is because most of the budget lies with kid shit, the biggest chance of something changing things is with kid shit due to the scope of audience it reaches.

I was like that once Gravity Falls ended. I would recommend you too see cartoons made for adults, they generally either know they're dumb shit and go with it or actually put the balls on the table and deliver, like Bojack Horseman.

>>88810542
do you think when they fuck alex does his grunkle stan voice and justin does his rick voice

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>>88811098

>>88810401
Bill should've posessed Wendy at some point

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>>88785654
>Because he's sexier that way.
That's not an Object-head Bill.