Is Wally really the best Flash?

>>88763819

No, Barry is the best Flash. Literally every other speedster is just cribbing the Speed Force generated by Barry.

>>88763889
I tried to get into the Flash during the new 52 and rebirth and found Barry boring as fuck outside a few cool moments like when he helped some girl slow down

I just don't understand the appeal

>>88763819
He had a really good run in the 90s. Most of the interesting things Barry does now comes from Wally originally.

>>88763934
Waid, out.

>>88763889
Go to bed, Johns

>>88764081
The first few issues of his new 52 run was so shit that I dropped it after around 5 issues because I had no idea what was going on or had any investment in the character because e was so boring.

The rebirth run was okay for a while but got boring with the godspeed guy. Did it get better?

>>88764136
Not really. The book's missing a lot of depth that I would prefer. Williamson is very dependent on exposition and I think that without a solid and detailed plan for what he's going to write, he falters very easily. But we have gotten two good one-shots. One where Wally comes in and spends some time with the new Kid Flash and the most recent issue where Black Wally deals with Tar Pit while Barry and Iris go on a date.
The Flash has a pretty loyal fanbase, so it's easier for writers to maintain readers even if the story is not appealing.

>>88764122
You know nothing of Johns, memester.

>>88764237
>Black Wally
Is he any good? I've been reading Teen Titans and he seems pretty unoffensive in it but I dropped new 52 so I don't really know anything about him

>>88764252
He's okay. From what I've heard, he's more developed in Titans but In Flash, he's interesting at times and I think that he has a lot of potential to become more endearing later on. I like the relationship that he has with Iris and the rest of his family. Now that he's not the main Wally West, writers can make him his own character, which is nice

>>88763819
wally's white again?

>>88764328
I think its suppose to be the same Wally from before the reboot, just like how the current Superman is the one from the old universe.

Of course that makes me kind of confused on how he also existed with the current Titans but i'm an idiot so whatever

>>88763943
This. The good Wally comics from the 80's on are what the TV show copies heavily. The speed force didn't even exist until Wally was the flash

>>88764354
>what the TV show copies heavily.
What do you mean?

>>88764561
The TV show adapts many things from the comics to varying degrees of accuracy. A lot of characters/themes/etc that have appeared in the TV show first appeared when Wally was main Flash after Barry was dead.

The first comic to EVER mention the speed force only came out when wally was the flash, not Barry. It literally did not exist in the comics when Barry was flash

>>88764348
that was bart allen

>>88764592
But Wally touched all of them so they got their memories back but i'm sort of confused if those were pre-current universe memories (what i'm assuming right now) or if they were friends in that universe and then he got speed forced which I don't think makes sense but I skipped out on Flash during new 52 so I might have missed something

>>88763943
>Most of the interesting things Barry does now comes from Wally originally.
And most of Wally's insteresings things also came from Barry.

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A lot if legacy characters rely heavily on there predecessors stuff,there supporting cast,there concepts,there status quo(see miles morales,Bart Allen).Wally was different he introduced new concepts(the Speedforce,time displacement,the flash family),had his own supporting cast with new characters(Bart,Max,Jessie,Linda,Savitar,Zolomon),as well as actually developing from a goofy lady's man to a loyal friend,husband and father.He was relatable and writers like mark waid and Geoff johns were willing to experiment with new ideas and villians that gave Wally great arcs(return of Barry Allen,terminal velocity,Rogue war,Zoom),sadly at least since his return writers play it safe with Barry repeating the same old evil speedster stories while Barry himself rarely has changed.This is why I think Wally is able to stand on his own as the flash,so much of the flash mythos was introduced threw him that removing him from it feels like robbing the franchise of a major player,that's why Wally is considered by some to be THE flash while Bart was considered a TEMPORARY flash,Wally could stand on his own in ways most legacy characters cant

>>88765446
Not really the only thing Barry gave Wally was melodrama and Eobard Thawne who Wally fought a total of 2 times in 30 years,modern Barry has taken Wally's sidekick,his joky personality,his villains(West and Godspeed are obvious riffs of zolomon),and in the shows case his love interests,villians and youthful angle

>>88763819
Wally was a better Flash, and at the time there were 2 new legacy characters, Kyle and Connor.

Connor is the only one that really failed as a character, Wally and Kyle got along pretty well, and they weren't prudes like Barry and Hal, they had fun. It helped to bring forth a new generation of hero's in a cohesive and natural way, it felt right.

Before that Flash was a C list character with B list powers under Barry and became an A list character with S list powers under Wally, and his rogues were much better, they took him out of the silver age.

Not only that but Wally was the first to move from the kiddy table to the JLA as a legacy character, they all knew him since he was a kid, it was a major deal. He had to go from idolizing these unapproachable people to thinking of them as teammates that depended on him with their lives.

Wally is a very important character, the only one more important as a legacy is Dick for obvious reasons.

>>88765446
Except that's a dirty lie. You either haven't read Wally west flash or in denial.

>>88763889

/thread

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>>88765900
Yeah no ignoring the fact that Barry making the Speedforce isn't canon anymore,Wally was the one to discover and expand everything about the speedforce

Jay Garrick is the best Flash

>>88764122
Johns loves Barry more than Wally, dude.

>>88765446
The only thing Barry is responsible for is creating Wally's insecurities. The Speed Force, The Flash Family, Wally's growth from shitlord into bona fide hero, all that stuff was done well after Barry was dead and has nothing to do with Barry.

The only thing you can really give Barry some credit for is that Wally used a good number of his villains. But they were completely remodeled for Wally's purposes and, much like everything else, they were much better as Wally villains than Barry villains.

>>88764252
He went from absolute garbage to, like you said, inoffensive. They basically course corrected super fucking hard and now he's a saint.

>>88765921
It is canon. Barry mentioned it in JLA.

>>88763819
You can't just solve all your problems by throwing them into the speed force.

>>88763819

#BarryIsTheBest

>>88767528
>Barry
>Even remotely close to being the best
Even Jay shits all over him.

>>88767528
Name one thing Barry is the best at.

Besides being boring.

They've shoved him down our throats for 6 years and didn't have an above average comic until they brought Wally back. The best comic Barry's been in is literally a comic about how Wally is the best and needed to come back.

Since everyone seems to hate Barry... how would you fix him?

>>88768788
You don't. Staying true to his character is his problem. People talk about how if they focused on the scientist aspect of him more it'd be more interesting but it really wouldn't, not unless you go full super genius super science shit.

He's just a lame character. They tried every fucking gimmick they could to keep him relevant in the 70s/80s and it just kept failing. There's nothing you can do to make him more interesting besides just turning him into a new character.

Which is what the show did. Turned him into a Peter Parker Wally West mashup with Barry's origin.

The best thing that ever happened to both Barry and Wally was Barry's death. Barry finally got to go out on a high note and it paved the path for massive improvement in the medium. Taking a 30 year step back has only hurt The Flash comics.

Barry's death was an A+ ending to his story -- it's a terrible middle point. And trying to ignore it by rebooting the universe like it never happened is disingenuous because people still know Barry as that boring scientist who died saving the multiverse. It's so historic that you can't escape it and it scuttles any honest character development you can imagine.

>>88764348
He's from this universe. There just happens to be 2 Wally Wests because DC couldn't get rid of the shitty black one without being called racist.

Which is funny because they sure as hell refuse to acknowledge killing off Wally's interracial family.

>>88768983
Maybe something could be done with that thing where Barry Allen is slow and methodical, taking his time and is always late, but The Flash is the Fastest Man Alive and creator and generator of the Speed Force?

Why don't they just have Barry make use of the SpeedMind thing with his scientist stuff.

>>88769059
>creator and generator of the Speed Force
Doing that was retarded.
If anyone should've had that role it should've been Jay.

The way I interpret Barry Allen personality-wise (especially in regards to being a speedster) is pretty much the opposite or inverse of Sonic the Hedgehog's personality.

Sonic the Hedgehog is a free spirit who does whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and follows his own rules and does what he thinks is right, and doesn't listen to anyone else's rules or what they think is right. He's like the wind, and he's always on the move, running towards the next adventure. He never looks back, he's got no regrets, 'cause time doesn't wait for him. He chooses to go his own way.

Now Barry Allen, the way I see him, is like the opposite of that. Where Sonic is a chaotic good free spirit, Barry is a forensic scientist for the police department and is more of a lawful good. He's slow and methodical, taking his time and he's always late. He's usually not impulsive in the slightest, he normally thinks things through heavily before going into action, and plans a lot of things out. And, ever since the death of his mother, he's pretty much been at a standstill for the rest of his life, stuck in that one moment and never moving on, never moving forward. Until lightning flashed around him, and time changed speed. Barry, the guy who does things slow and has been at a standstill since he was a kid, became the creator and generator for the very force of speed itself, an entire dimension of motion and infinite energy that moves time forward.

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>>88769276
>The way I interpret Barry Allen personality-wise (especially in regards to being a speedster) is pretty much the opposite or inverse of Sonic the Hedgehog's personality.

>>88769276
Why do fucking autists always want to insert fucking Sonic into everything?

>>88769276
This is such a shitty post. You should be incredibly ashamed of yourself.

>>88769401
Shadow's personality is just Dark-Sonic, with an emphasis on controlling chaos instead of being free chaos.

>>88769059
They literally did that. You are just reciting the first New 52 run. It was mediocre drivel held up by good art.

Also the "generator of the Speed Force" is a narrative dead end. There's nothing to do with that concept. It just means Barry's the best, like he always was anyhow. It reinforces how boring he is. The only purpose it serves is power level wanking. It was a vain attempt to get the Wally West power level fanatics on board Barry's ship by immediately undercutting everyone in favor of Barry.

It's the worst addition to the Flash canon besides Bart's sordid run.

>>88769276
Are you that guy who constantly posts about Sonic in Flash threads who swears he isn't an autistic faggot but has pictures of fucking Sonic fans calling him an autistic faggot?

>>88769481
Being the generator of the Speed Force could still be a good narrative thing, potentially. I mean, like, you'd just have write Barry's connection to the Speed Force much differently from Wally's. Like, for Wally, the Speed Force is this other dimension that Wally is tethered too and could potentially suck him in if he's not careful. For Barry, the Speed Force is something inside him. I actually think being the generator the Speed Force while also normally being slow and methodical could be a good narrative in and of itself.

>>88769548
But it's not Barry's connection to the Speed Force. It's the Speed Force's connection to Barry.

With Wally it was interesting because he was being batted around by this higher power he both relied on, feared, and sought to understand.

With Barry that's not the case. He is the higher power. It's the same problem Barry has always had, in that he's too perfect to be interesting. It's why they gave him a cheap dead mom sob story.

Being the generator of the Speed Force does nothing to his "Fastest man alive, always late" mechanic. It adds nothing. He was already the epitome and definition of speed. This is a story bent that lost its luster 50 years ago. Adding the words Speed Force to it doesn't change the dynamic.

>>88769466
and getting that DAMN FOURTH EMERALD

>>88768669
>Name one thing Barry is the best at.

Dying

>>88769782
>didn't even stay dead
nah

>>88763819
The best flash, for m, is the most entertaining, the most relatable and the most fleshed out, being the strongest has nothing to do with it.

In that sense, Wally is the best flash.

>>88769799
He stayed dead longer than Wally ever did.

>>88769606
Maybe it could be like, as he generates the Speed Force, it affects him personally and his normal slow actions and ways of doing things end up being sped up so much that ... I don't know where I was going with this.

>>88763889
>>88765900
>Barry is better because of a random plot point rather than because of actual; character

>>88763819
In a medium/genre where true character progression is pretty rare, I think Wally stands out because he had a really strong character arc. He was allowed to grow from a cocky kid to a full-fledged hero. He was also able to do this in light of grappling with his predecessor's legacy in a really neat way, and was given a good 20 years for this to develop before Barry came back (even if the bulk of it came from one writer). It was a really great arc and great development, that not many characters get, and get to stick. Granted, it didn't really stick, but we'll see where he goes in Rebirth.

Dick Grayson is similar, managing to achieve a real and lasting change.

>>88770070
You're getting to a story that Wally already did. The build up to and conclusion of Terminal Velocity was all about Wally getting more and more in touch with the Speed Force and how it was stripping away his personality and humanity.

So yes, you have a respectable idea. One that's already been done in probably the second best Flash story arc ever. Applying it to Barry is what Barry has been doing this whole time -- retreading Wally's greatness.

That's the problem, really. When Wally became The Flash there was this consistent, good character and narrative progress, both for him, his supporting cast, and even the source of his powers.

With Barry it's just an everlasting rut as they try to recreate the magic that they threw away. Despite his first New 52 arc being called move forward, Barry is the epitome of the end of progression in the franchise.

>>88770259
Maybe that story arc Wally had in Terminal Velocity could be applied to Barry as well but done much differently, because Barry isn't tapping into this ethereal force all around him, his power is literally that force being created within him.

>>88770584
Why does that change things? It's still the same narrative beat.

But yes, all Barry's good for is bad stories and pallid Wally rip offs. Him being a boring, complete character is why they killed him off. It's why the live action version is nothing like him. It's why they killed his mom.

The dude's a narrative pitfall. His character really has nowhere to go. He just fights villains. That's all he's good for, it's all he was ever designed for, and it's why he's so boring.

>>88770654
Maybe Barry was just never written right. Maybe no one 'got' Barry, and then they killed him off and all the potential that could have gone to Barry was given to Wally and now Wally has the most memorable character and story and everyone thinks Barry is trash.

I think Barry Allen could still be an interesting character. He just needs a good writer that 'gets' him.

Barry Allen is slow and methodical, always late, the source of the Speed Force, a ray of hope, Wally's mentor, a forensic scientist, became a forensic scientist because of his mother's murder, was obessessed with his mother's murder before learning to move forward, and had so many problems and stuff throughout his life because of Eobard Thawne. I mean, there has to be a good and interesting character between all of these things. There just has to be.

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Recomend me some wally flash runs from the 90s guys please. If you know the numbering that would be even better

>>88767121
Just one more example of the Wally (original) golden touch.

He even gave him his supporting cast. I miss grown-up Chunk.

>>88769005

Asians don't count

>>88765937
I can respect that position.

>>88763889
I always liked Barry more because I see him as a self insert. I'm not gonna lie, Wally is a better written character than Barry is now.

>>88771033
They should. They're much better.

All I'm saying is we were denied cute redheaded asian Impulse girl and it's DC and Black Wally's fault.

>>88770956
You can legit just read Flash Volume 2 from #1 to #225. A lot of people don't like the Baron run (1-14) and think the Loebs run (15-61) is just mediocre, but I think it's nice to kind of see why Wally was such a shit head before Waid's run starts in #62. It helps underscore the character growth.

Even better if you read New Teen Titans where Wally's the obnoxious stick in the mud of the group. Though that was because Wolfman fucking hated him and decided to make him the least likable, it all worked out in the end.

>>88771156
Wally is a self insert, though. That's how Waid always treated him. I believe his line, paraphrased, was "Like me when I was young, but with a full head of hair, in better shape, and with super powers."

Heck, Wally's original story is literally supposed to be an audience self insert about a kid getting his wish to be like the superheroes he reads about. But that was when the audience was kids.

>>88768983
Woah. I don0t like Barry that much, but you clearly are hating him to much.

I can think of ways of making him more interesting. First of all, giving him his own supporting cast. He may lack charm in his personality, which I also disagree because there're TV media lead characters like him that work, but whatever, but that can be fixed with a good supporting cast. And good villains. Nowadays, it's like writers don't know how to create and write good, fun, interesting villains with actual malicious plans or even ill intentions.

>>88771656
You know, now that I think of it, has Barry ever had his own supporting cast? I mean, the Flash TV show had to create new characters as well as putting Vibe, Killer Frost, and Firestorm in there.

>>88771732
Iris and Wally were his supporting cast.

>>88771656
Barry's problem, supporting cast wise, is his supporting cast would be more interesting than him unless you overhaul him.

That was the problem. Iris was plenty boring enough, but people liked Wally more as Barry's time was waning down. They didn't give Wally the book on a whim, they figured people would just be more interested in him.

>>88771756
Just his girlfriend and his sidekick. The Flash is not Sonic the Hedgehog, he can't just have Amy Rose and Tails be his supporting cast like Sonic can.

>>88771656
Of course I hate him. Ever since he came back Flash comics have been dreadfully boring and he's the primary culprit. Why wouldn't I hate the stupid "icon" responsible for ruining a book I have a lot of fond memories for?

>>88770956
Just read volume 2.
It was my starting point when I wanted to read Flash a few months ago. I read the whole thing like it was nothing. A really fun and comfy reading, to be honest.

>>88771782
You can still make it work.I know I am going to say something really awful right now, but Buffy The Vampire Slayer had some awfully boring lead that was carried by her supporting cast the whole show. And there are plenty of similar examples in mainstream japanese media that I can recall, like Attack on Titan or Naruto, that also had a rather bland or less interesting main compared to their supporting cast, and they still work. It's just a matter of balance in the narrative and the actual importance of said characters in the lead development.

>>88771979
But why wouldn't you just prefer an interesting lead? When one already existed? That you got rid of in favor of a boring one?

You're fighting against the tide and it's senseless.

Is it true that Wally is pretty much an anime?

>>88770956
Here you go, dude: http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Flash-1987

Depending on what you like go buy the collections. Johns and Morrison's have been reprinted plenty and they just started Waid.

>>88763889
>Barry is a better character because his power level is higher
You need to be at least 18 years old to post on 4chan. Please come back in six years.

>>88772008
Because we are talking of making Barry's book a comic that can be readable and entertaining, making him gain some points of interest. And you cannot change a character's personality or history much if you want to actually preserve him as it is. If you change him too much, you may as well change the lead entirely for a new one. We don't want to do that.

From my perspective, it seems like none of you can come up with a way to make Barry interesting.

>>88763819
no, but his fans are the best at being raging shitheads

>>88770876
Barry won't get better as long as people think fixing him means he has to be more like Wally.

>>88772077
Why don't we want to do that? That's my point. The Flash franchise literally only grew in Barry's absence, and it immediately shrank, shriveled, and died upon his return. What' so great about Barry that we have to preserve his role as the big lead of the Flash franchise? Why jump through hoops?

>>88772111
Both fanbases are cancerous shitheads. Wally's is just seemingly worse because they had much, much more to be mad about.

Waid used to get all sorts of terrible letters from Barry fans during his Flash run. He had to constantly remind people Barry was dead and not coming back (funny how that turned out).

Does Wally like speed and fast things?

>>88772127
Because even if you don't like it, he has his fans, which means sales. You don't want to let a commercial property die, which is why publishers sometimes bring back dead or forgotten characters from time to time. Especially when is the name that general public knows and remembers when they talk about the franchise. And there's the thing of him being tied to the CW series, too. And there's space for two or even three Flashes.

>>88772290
His poor sales are the reason the Flash family rebooted along with the New 52. If he had good sales it would've survived, just like GL and Batman.

He has the same fans who would be reading The Flash regardless. None of his numbers have ever been exceptional, certainly not more than when Wally was The Flash.

The reason he's the name is they shoved him into shows. You could just as easily shove Wally into shows and movies, they just chose not to. Everything you're ascribing to Barry is forced circumstance. It's not something you can compare. The only times Wally ever got a shot were, what, the JLU show where he was massively popular and the comics where he was massively successful?

Your point is ridiculous. There isn't space for two Flashes, not with Barry around. Barry's existence defeats Wally's premise. It's why they were happy to kill Wally off for six years after they brought back Barry, even if sales tanked.

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If I had to fix Barry I'd go with what Geoff johns did but remove all the dourness that made Barry boring.Yes Barry died and the whole world moved on even his wife but instead of him wallowing in the past if have him move on.Let Iris move on to that new boyfriend she had.Let Barry get a new job and try to get a Leesh on life a new man,maybe a new love interest and new part of the city,new job.Trying to sweep the fact that most of dc had moved past Barry was a mistake let him have a new Leah on life instead of being four like he was pre52 or dull like he was new52

The way I like to think about Barry's origin is, ever since his mother was murdered, his life was at a standstill. His mind was stuck in that moment and obsessed with it, obssessed with solving the murder and finding the man who killed her, and his slow and methodical nature is tied into that, making him pretty much a man standing still while the world around him is moving at high speed.

And when he's struck by lightning, everything changes. The rest of the world is standing still, and he's starting to move again. Move forward. Move faster than ever before. Generating speed. Generating light. So much that he IS the speed, he IS the light. A light of hope. A light that inspires others to run with him.

Maybe something could be done with this to make Barry interesting?

>>88772556
They did the things you're talking about. They split Iris and Barry up, gave him a new love interest, overhauled his life. It doesn't matter. He's still Barry Allen. He's still the boring nerd, he's still the guy who saved the universe and died for it, only now he didn't really die for it so that entire amazing character finale is left deflated.

>>88772439
Ok, mate. Whatever.

But just because they didn't get it to work in the past, it doesn't mean it's not going to work now or later.

Also, I want to finally point out that hey're trying the multiple characters with the same name.in different books. Or at least it looks to me like they're trying to do so. They work in the industry, sure they know better than me, a jobless, poorfag who expends free time in an anonymous image board. I'll trust their judgement after rethinking the new52 fiasco for now.

>>88772568
You already made this post in this very thread, you doofus.

>>88772754
It doesn't work. As long as Barry exists he's the one who HAS to have "The Flash" title.

Wally literally got a huge, unbelievably successful return. Where is he now? Wasting away in a mediocre, third rate team book while Barry is still on the Justice League (further obvious proof they don't co-exist, since he KICKED WALLY OFF THE TEAM), he's the one with the double shipping book, he's the one who shows up in the current stupid big crossover event (stupid as they are they are publicity and relevance).

Barry existing forces him to be the important one and forces Wally to be a subrate character whose entire character premise is faulty. What's the point of the man who stepped out of his mentor's shadow when his mentor comes back to life, kicks him out of his own book, off of his own superhero team, and literally gets him killed?

You wonder why Wally fans are bitter and hate Barry. You wouldn't wonder if you had lived through all the horseshit.

>>88772568
That doesn't sound like a story. It sounds like a shitty description.

Like, read it yourself. "Barry Allen is the light, speed and hope!" Where's your story in there? What's interesting about that besides just listing off a bunch of reasons why Barry Allen is the bestest?

That's what they did in Flash Rebirth (and Blackest Night with the Hope gimmick). And it cratered so bad that it scuttled the entire Flash family.

Barry has become so heroic and stoic that he has evolved and developed past being able to be an interesting main character. He works good as a mentor.

>>88773036
He works best as a deceased ideal.

>>88772840
>It doesn't work. As long as Barry exists he's the one who HAS to have "The Flash" title.
Disagree. Already happened.

>Wally literally got a huge, unbelievably successful return. Where is he now? Wasting away in a mediocre, third rate team book
Disagree. I like Titans, it's not great, but it's even better than the actual Flash book. Better written, better interaction between characters, better villain so far, and still developing an actual important plot for the publisher.

>while Barry is still on the Justice League (further obvious proof they don't co-exist, since he KICKED WALLY OFF THE TEAM)
Because Wally is still in the shadows, because plot reasons, because the whole editorial plan. This point is just you don't seeing where the story is going. You cannot kick out of a team a member that wasn't there to begin with. They're bringing the pre-FP status quo back.
>he's the one with the double shipping book,
Because he was the only flash pre rebirth. Obvious commercial reasons. Now there are Flash, Kid Flash, Wally flash who is coming to the in universe light soon, and Jay, probably, given that he was already teased.
>he's the one who shows up in the current stupid big crossover event (stupid as they are they are publicity and relevance).
Aha. Because, again, he's the former face of the current franchise. Totally understable.
>Barry existing forces him to be the important one and forces Wally to be a subrate character whose entire character premise is faulty.
Not necesary. You could say the same about the Green Lanterns.
>What's the point of the man who stepped out of his mentor's shadow when his mentor comes back to life, kicks him out of his own book, off of his own superhero team, and literally gets him killed?
Gosh, you're salty with an editorial choice that they're likely correcting by now.
>You wonder why Wally fans are bitter and hate Barry. You wouldn't wonder if you had lived through all the horseshit.
Relax and wait.

>>88771158
I personally prefer it this way now that I think about it. If we didn't have Black Wally then we would have to deal with Red head Wally being kid flash for another 20 years. This way we don't have to do all the development Wally went through.

>>88772016
Yes.
>Basically Simon from Gurren Lagann living up to his big bro's legacy
>THE POWER OF FRIEND SHIP and LOVE get him through stuff
>Hardcore powerlevel shounen fights

>>88773234
Holy shit who posts like that? You missed half of what I was saying by dividing everything up.

The point of the double shipping remark is that, even if you consider Titans "wally's" book it didn't get double shipped like every other book they considered important.

You also seemed to miss out on the fact that Barry showing up literally did kill Wally, kick him off his own book, and kick him off of his own team to be demoted to the B-team. Which is still the case. Wally's never going to be in the Justice League because Barry is around. That makes him the second rate Flash. Just like Donna Troy is second rate Wonder Woman. Just like Nightwing is second rate to Batman (admittedly, a second rate Batman in DC's eyes is still better than everyone else half the time).

Barry's existence ruins Wally's place in the universe. He literally got knocked down to the kid's table despite earning his place.

>>88773497
What? Those aren't the only two options. As we saw for the previous 20 years.

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I just want and pray Ezra Miller's movie to be a huge flop so DC would stop pushing Barry. We all know that's what it will take. The moment he's a huge success, we're fucked even more than we are now.

I'm dreading the amount of synergy they will bring in from DCEU, TV show ruined absolutely everything I held dear about Flash and movie will probably put the cherry on top on it.

>>88773744
All a flop will due is make them never invest in a big screen flash movie again. GL's flop didn't make it so they wanted to do a Kyle movie.

>>88763889
But Barry was responsible for Nu52 and Wally fixed it. Therefore Wally is better.

>>88773796
There are plans for an older Hal with several Lanterns on the board already. They will utilize the other lanterns instead.

Besides I would rather have no big screen Flash instead of SYNERGY everywhere. Just look at Suicide Squad mess.

>>88773827
Didn't fix anything. Still the same shit basically everywhere but like Superman and Deathstroke.

>>88773843
It fixed the retarded casual-edgelord aesthetics and that's really all that matters.

>>88769093
Jay wasn't part of Didio's childhood

Say what you want about the dark age but that was the last time the industry really shake up things and try to make changes for real. Hell, legacy characters could actually stick and being treated like the real deal. Compare it to Dickbats, everyone knew Bruce will come back because he's Batman

>>88775227
Bruce always comes back
even geriatric Batnman Beyond Bruce, how the fuck do you survive death from old age? what the fuck

Barry is the Jonathan Joestar of comics. He's what started the story after him, but he's mostly remembered because of his death. Everything people associate with the franchise comes after him. He's a character everyone respects, but nobody's favorite. To resurrect him is regressive.

>>88775618
>To resurrect him is regressive.
unless... he become A CRIPPLE!

>>88775788
Actually, because of the Speed Force, he can still use Superspeed through his wheelchair. Or have someone give him bionic legs.

>>88775928
he should start learning to use speedforce in inventive ways... like spinning his own nails! That's totally going to improve his crime-fighting!

>>88775969
... Barry is the generator of the Speed Force, so he should act like it! He should start using every possible technique that could be done with speed/lightning/space-time!

>>88776009
nigga can't even make clothes, what a chump

>>88765921
It was actually mentioned in the Flash Rebirth that came out a few months back.

>>88763819
Wally is the best Flash. All of these ignorant children fail to understand that one of the most important and long lasting aspects of the Flash mythos is legacy and Wally embodies the pinnacle of that concept when it comes to superhero comics.

>>88777634
Legacy is only an aspect of the Flash mythos because of Wally.

>>88770876

I agree with this guy. Someone just needs to come along and look at Barry differently.

>>88772088

Playing up his connection to the Speed Force/multiverse, his hopeful personality against overwhelming odds are a good start. Maybe throw in a couple things like
>Barry is an incredibly powerful person, but really is just a regular guy
>Barry struggles with his responsibilities as a central JL figure, the Flash, etc. when he doesn't really see himself as a "larger than life" person like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, or even Hal

Just a couple shots in the dark, there are a lot of directions to take the character if someone were to just try. He's very similar to Hal honestly, they're both basic character archetypes. Hal is the confident, willful type whereas Barry is the nice, hopeful type. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are more mythic characters while Green Arrow is just an interesting character who doesn't fall super cleanly into a very basic archetype, etc. My point is you can do cool things with Barry just like cool things are done with Hal but the problem is no one really expands on his character.

>>88773563
>Just like Nightwing is second rate to Batman

That's not really the case, Nightwing is his own man doing his own things. No reason why Wally can't be the same.

Guys! Barry and Wally are basically interchangeable. Now stop this nonsense.

>>88770259
>Despite his first New 52 arc being called move forward, Barry is the epitome of the end of progression in the franchise.
What if Barry became a new Reverse Flash?

>>88778258
>>Barry is an incredibly powerful person, but really is just a regular guy
>>Barry struggles with his responsibilities as a central JL figure, the Flash, etc. when he doesn't really see himself as a "larger than life" person like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, or even Hal

Again, these are both Wally West story beats. It's amazing how people who've only seen Barry just naturally gravitate towards Wally's concepts.

>>88778322
Don't even start with that shit. Wally own mannedness exceeds Dick by a lot.

>>88778025
Dead mom isn't interesting and hasn't been for years. Stitching it onto a boring character doesn't solve all his problems.

>>88778969
Maybe it's just because Wally was the only one able to use those concepts because Barry was, oh I don't know... DEAD.

Killing Barry off is what killed the potential for him to grow as a character.

>>88779361
The Speed Force was created for Wally you fucking doofus.

And no, Barry WAS one of the big name, super idealized heroes. That's the fucking point. Wally wasn't. He was a relative newcomer, a kid playing at adult, who had to prove himself to his superiors. Barry is one of those superiors. Barry isn't somehow not on equal ground with Superman. They're peers.

You're just trying to take something that naturally comes to Wally and paste it onto Barry because, you're right, it is interesting. But it's not natural to Barry. Barry isn't a self conscious, worried person who thinks he has to prove himself. That's never been a part of his character like it was Wally's.

Hell, Wally debuted with that hero worship/idolization. Flash fanclub and all that. It was so obvious and so natural with him which is why he was the one with that story despite Barry's 20 year head start.

>>88779361
If 30 fucking years wasn't good enough to grow him as a character maybe it just doesn't suit the character. Barry has been The Flash longer than Wally -- his first run was longer than Wally's entirety and he's had 6 more years on top of it.

Stop making excuses. He's a lame character. I know you just want him to be better because when you started coming to /co/ and reading free comics Barry was the only one who existed. That's fine, but stop trying to pretend like he's done anything but rip off a superior character.

He didn't run so fast he died.

>>88779361
Hmm yes, Barry, founder of the Justice League, not on equal footing with the rest of the Justice League.

Sounds really disingenuous on top of ripping off Wally. Much like how Barry in JL has long been ripping off Wally whenever he gets a line.

Just admit Wally's more interesting and the comics, both JL and Flash, would be better with him as a lead.

>>88779464
>>88779496

What this guy >>88778258 said was Barry not seeing himself as a larger than life incredibly powerful persona like Batman, Superman, etc, he sees himself as just a regular guy. He didn't say the Wally-like thing of proving himself to be on the same level or anything. What the guy said was basically Barry viewing himself as just a regular person and not an incredibly powerful larger than life persona, even though he IS an incredibly powerful larger than life persona in the eyes of the rest of the world.

>>88779618

> even though he IS an incredibly powerful larger than life persona in the eyes of the rest of the world.

barry is only like that when he's dead. one of the things about The Flash is that he's connected with the people on a personal level.

How much of Wally's traits are just regular "Speedster personality" traits that you would expect to find?

>>88779674
I ask this because, I'm wondering if the reason a lot of Wally's traits become applied to Barry is because those traits are just the traits you would expect to find in a speedster? I mean, things like being cocky and funny and smartmouthed and quickwitted and stuff like that.

>>88779674
Aside from general impatience, nothing in particular? The idol worship, self doubt, and character progression aren't really speedster specific.

>>88779717
Barry isn't cock, funny, or quick witted. At least not outside of Justice League, which is just Johns slipping into Wally writing habits because he needs someone to lighten the mood.

When Hal was around Barry didn't joke at all, Johns would just use Hal because it suited him more. It was a team composition problem and writer tendency more than "BARRY IS JUST COPYING WALLY"

>>88779717
Wally's the only one who's really a smart mouth, at least consistently. Neither Jay nor Barry were, and Bart is more about weird comedy situations his impulsiveness/literalism creates.

I guess his daughter, what little we saw of her, was like that.

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I just want to ask this to all you Wally fans, what is your general opinion of this character?

>>88779970
Nothing? Stop posting sonic shit in Flash threads you autist.

>>88779987
the reason I ask is because the character has the hero worship and self doubt stuff, like Wally.

>>88763819
Dude originated in the Silver Age. He had DECADES of buildup before he became The Flash.

Now they create a character and turn them into a "legacy hero" IMMEDIATELY.

There's no comparison between the two. Proper character building will always be superior.

>>88780081
Right, but who in their right mind would read Sonic comics? You, but you're an autist, so please stop bringing them up. This is like the fifth time.

>>88780137
I am not autistic.

>>88780175
Of course you are, you read Sonic comics. It's alright, bud, just don't bring it into other threads.

>>88780212
Don't talk down to me just because I'm a Sonic fan. I brought up Tails because he's a character in a similar position to Wally, including being a speedster with a speedster mentor.

>>88780300
Yeah, maybe 1960s Wally.

Of course I'd talk down to you for being a Sonic fan. It's the biggest cesspit of sperglords of any comic series. Every conversation involved with it is awful. It attracts small children and large manchildren alike, even moreso than typical comics.

>>88780300
Look man, if you really want to force this, Tails just is Sonic's sidekick. He doesn't have near the character development of Wally even if he started in the same position. Tails doesn't have decades of being the only act in town while Sonic was dead. He isn't sitting in the shadow of a man who died saving the universe while everyone looks down on him like a subpar replacement.

You're right, they're both "speedsters" with mentors, they both idolized their mentors, but that's where the similarities end. It's such a superficial comparison that misses the entire point of why Wally is a good character.

Are you happy?

>>88780462
I guess so...

>>88779970
He's okay? I hve no real opinion on any of the Sonic cast or even Sonic himself

I've only played a few of the games though

If we could have Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, Wally West, Wally West, Bart Allen, Jessie Quick, Johnny Quick, Max Mercury, and whomever else altogether as "The Flash Family" or whatever, what should the overall dynamic and balance and stuff be between them, assuming Barry is still promoted as "The Flash" like he is now and stuff?

>>88781834 continued ... ?

This includes how the SpeedForce would be used differently among them.

>>88781834
Literally just how they were used with Wally

Jay Garrick as a mentor figure, Barry as an ideal and something to aspire towards, Wally as the MC who has to grow into his role as the flash, Bart as Wally's side-kick like Wally was for Barry but play up some of the things that make him different and potentially better like the memory thing and I don't really know much about everyone else there desu

>>88778013
Jay Garrick you stupid motherfucker.

>>88783652
The situation between Jay and Barry didn't become "Legay Hero" until Wally became the Flash. Or, you could argue that it didn't become "Legacy Hero" till Flash of Two Worlds.

Eh, I was never a fan of the idea of Legacy Heroes anyway.

>>88783804
"Legay" was a typo.

>>88783804
Flash of Two Worlds was in 1961, five years after Barry's debut. Ever since then Barry has been inspired by reading about Jay in comics growing up. Read more fucking comics.

>>88783997
Barry was inspired by Jay in his first comic.

>>88784217
Hence the legacy element.

should i buy titans instead of flash rebirth? i prefer wally west to barry allen after reading some of the mark waid comics. and i dont like how flash rebirth introduced like 13 different speedsters because of some fucking storm

>>88786070
Yes

I wonder how many people are Barryfags because of that crap CW show as opposed actually being longtime pre-Crisis Flash fans.

>>88786070
Titans is better even if it is just Wally and Co. atm.

>>88786893
Barry on there isn't even as likable as Wally in the comics was and is way more of a fuck up

>>88786905
>even if it is just Wally and Co.
That's why I'm reading it to be honest.

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Why do we have to fight?

>>88789190
Because Barryfags must die.

>>88772290
People don't care if it's Barry or Wally. Fans just want good writing

>>88789190
Cute as this scene was, the only reason it exists is because Barry's return killed Wally.

Despite what the comic said it is all Barry's fault. The Flash family's sorry state is 100% because they shoved his bland ass down our throats.

>>88765446
Almost all of the cornerstones of the Flash franchise as we understand it now are Wally stories. The relationships with the Rogues that we treasure? Wally created them, or turned them into what we know now. The only new one is Johns trying to make Barry important again by making him the source of the Speed force, which makes no sense in universe or with previous depictions of the speed force.

Barry got more interesting while he was dead than he ever was when alive.
You clearly don't know your Flash.

>>88789907
I have to agree.

If TV Barry is basically Wally, and TV Wally is basically Bart, then when Bart inevitably shows up on the show, who will he be like?

>>88791563
Jai

>>88791563
TV Barry isn't even as good as Wally though

What is Barry Allen's personality? What is his character dynamic and who is he as the Flash?

What is Wally West's personality? What is his character dynamic and who is he as the Flash?

>>88793629
>What is Barry Allen's personality? What is his character dynamic and who is he as the Flash?

He's corny but also charismatic like Shiro from Voltron. Self sufficient, terrible at socializing but when he sees a comic book he turns into a quirky nerd. He seperates Barry from Flash very firmly.

>What is Wally West's personality? What is his character dynamic and who is he as the Flash?

He's funny, charming but also bit of a jerk due to his massive ego. Cartoons and team up books mostly portray him like Lance from Voltron while he is more or less leaning to Keith's characterization. He has absolutely no line drawn between Flash & Wally personas and this bites him in the ass against Zoom.

>>88764328
black wally is still there too
just two people named wally west who both have speed powers, nothing confusing about that

>>88790270

The saddest thing being what's been iterated numerous times in this thread which is his whole claim to fame is essentially aping the best moments in Wally's run. Barry should have remained a mythos for the Flash family, he could show up when needed as he was set-up to by Wolvman but instead they brought him back where he lived high as an entity that genuinely sacrificed for the good of all, something that every future flash could aspire to and every superhero could respect. Now he's just guy that came back #21561230 and he didn't have Hal Jordan's solid comic run tied to it to make it seem like a great thing that he did.

>>88779496
Don't do that. DC didn't know the meaning of the words character development until the late 70's - 1980s.

>>88791563
TV Barry isn't Wally and TV Wally isn't Bart. In any real way. TV Wally is New 52 Wally.

>>88796876
Barry was The Flash from 70-86. What's your point?

Barry has been The Flash for the last 6 years and nothing good has come of it.

He's such a boring character that all of his television adaptations are either Wally-lite (like the Cartoon Movies and such) or are just completely different characters (TV Barry is more Peter Parker than anything, who even knows with Movie Barry).

There's nothing to develop about a bland but morally perfect person. He has quirks like being into science but not to a degree that's interesting since it's just mundane science and not cool superhero super science. Oh but he's a forensics officer! That's interesting!

Well not fucking really, because every superhero is basically a forensics officer. They all do what Barry does, he just has the same day job and sometimes holds up a crime scene photo.

How about playing up the science aspect to absurd degrees and make Barry a super super supergenius with the Speedforce's "Speed Mind" ability, and he has the Speed Force down to a science?

>>88797300
Not gonna happen. Can't let him move in on Batman's "Smartest person in the JL" turf. Barry can't even be smarter than Superman.

That's his problem. He's just caught in a bland pigeonhole.

>>88797300
The worst thing to do with the unknownable, mysterious, dangerous entity is know it, take away the mystery, and take away the danger. So no to that last part.

How about just fully embracing the fact that Barry is literally like SpeedForce God, like how Hal Jordan seems to be transforming into a God of the Green Light of Willpower, and completely redefine Barry's personality and character to just being a living embodiment of the Speed Force as a concept. At least when he's the Flash, and when he's Barry Allen he 'turns it off' in public to the point that he appears to be moving in borderline-slowmotion.

>>88797457
Comic book readers can barely stand Barry, that would make them hate him more and drive a bunch of fans away.

It worked with Hal Jordan because Kyle Rayner didn't have many fans so vocal majority was in Hal's favor.

>>88797457

This is similar to Kingdom Come's Flash a little. I like that. Playing up the juxtaposition between Barry feeling like he's an ordinary joe when in reality he's basically a god-like being could make for an interesting character.

>>88797457
That is literally Wally's story you dingus. Just taking Wally's Terminal Velocity arc and saying "Ah but yes he is ARBITRARILY STRONGER NOW" doesn't make a good story.

You don't even understand the Speed Force if you think a character can become the living embodiment of it as a concept. The Speed Force, as a concept, serves 3 purposes.

First and foremost, Waid used it as a unifying umbrella to unite the speedsters into one family. Barry obviously doesn't represent the Flash family, he represents the death of it, and no one character can embody the family. That's why Barry "creating" the Speed Force was so stupid to begin with.

Secondly, the Morrisonian purpose of the Speed Force is as the embodiment of narrative progression. It is an in universe explanation for the progression of narrative relative to the viewer. Barry can't embody the embodiment of meta narrative.

And finally, yes, it is the mechanism of Speedster powers. It doesn't serve a story purpose to say Barry's exhaust fumes power everyone else. He's already as fast and powerful as you want him to be. Barry "embodying" being the source of speedster powers just makes everyone else look shittier next to him, which is one of the reasons he's so shitty.

You can't just lob the word Speed Force at Barry Allen until it makes him a good character. That's not what made Wally a good character. They did exactly what you're trying to sell and it was plain awful and so boring that there was nowhere, narratively, to go. They immediately abandoned the concept. It's a defunct storytelling mechanism beyond the "Struggling with the immense power" story arc, something that was done masterfully in Terminal Velocity.

>>88768669
Using science to pull off speed tricks. Wally's tricks all either came from Barry or relied on speedforce focusing.

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>>88793629
Depends on the Barry.
Current Barry is insecure and hurt over what Zoom did to his family. He is a big nerd but also has a really righteous side.
Late Game Barry is a stoic mentor who is simply an amazing and inspiring person to be around.
The issue with new 52 Barry is that it doesn't know which Barry it wants yet.
Young Wally is funny, a joker and loves playing tricks on people. This gets him a lot of hate from the people around him since he plays like a fool but he is actually really smart but loves being the smart ass dick. He slowly grows up and goes from trying to be a ladies man smart ass to living his life like his mentor Barry Allen after his death. Wally goes onto a journey of maturing and coming to gripes with his mentors death. Eventually he even surpasses his mentor in power and even wisdom. This is thanks in part to finding the love of his life Linda. He is very charismatic and still likes telling jokes but his insecurities and self confidence make him a lot more liked by the people around him.

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I actually don't mind Barry coming back.
By the time Barry came back Wally was a fully developed character. He was so developed and so matured that there was not very much more for him to go. It was clear the torch was not going to be given how badly fans reacted to him. Bringing Barry back makes sense. But how they did it wasn't the best,
Giving Barry a new back story was cool, but making him the star and the hero didn't make sense. Wally was far more mature and powerful at that point. If anything Wally should be mentoring Barry. They should be working together to solve problems and Barry shouldn't be treated as the one true flash but simply a really cool guy who Wally and the rest respect.

>>88797334
Oh well

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http://insidepulse.com/2016/06/27/dc-comics-rebirth-spoilers-dc-rebirths-red-black-gold-wally-wests-the-flashs-costumes-where-is-brett-booths-female-blue-flash/

>>88799388
Wally is the king of speed tricks, but power level is a shitty thing to be best at anyhow. Flash Rebirth made Barry immediately more powerful than all the speedsters alive, combined, and it didn't make him better.

>>88799435
This triggers me to this day. I still can't fucking believe Johns wrote this.

What's worse is literally everything that comes out of Bart's mouth, too.

>>88799638
"Hmm we're having a problem with the progression of the Flash franchise. Let's take a 30 year step backwards"

>>88802722
>http://insidepulse.com/2016/06/27/dc-comics-rebirth-spoilers-dc-rebirths-red-black-gold-wally-wests-the-flashs-costumes-where-is-brett-booths-female-blue-flash/


If I had to guess, since this was still long before they were bringing back real Wally, that was supposed to be Booth's half cocked idea for Iris West, Wally's daughter. She's lighter skinned than Wally but darker skinned than the white dudes in that picture.

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He showed up in Injustass recently.
The version people actually care about to boot.

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>>88763819
>Is Wally really the best Flash?
No, but his fans are the loudest and whiniest. Rather like his fellow "2extreme4u" 90s Poochie and best butt buddy Kyle.

>>88802872
You mean the fighting game better than anything Capcom has put out since the 90s?

>>88802921
Just because Wally is Kyle's best friend doesn't mean Kyle is his. Kyle doesn't even make Wally's top 5.

>>88802921
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Wally may have bitchy fans but he's obviously the superior character.

Happy New Year Wally/Barry/Jay/Flash/FAGs.

I just read through Terminal Velocity. And from what I've seen, there's always a line between Wally West and the Speed Force. At that time, when Barry wasn't around, all speedsters draw power from the Speed Force, but Wally is the one with a direct connection to it. It seems to me that Wally is always struggling with the Speed Force. If he runs too fast, faster than the speed of light, his entire being will become absorbed by the field of infinite energy and speed, and he can come back through his connection to his loved ones. Wally is the one speedster with the strongest, closest connection to the Speed Force, but there is always a line between himself and it. A very very thin line. With Barry, there is no line. Because Barry /is/ the Speed Force. He's already one with it, because he created. He generates it. And even at that time back then, Barry had already /physically/ merged with it completely.

>>88804766
Anyways...

When Barry was struck by lightning, the accident created the Speed Force, and Barry generates it whenever he runs. With Wally, Barry (probably) subconcsiously called down the lightning to bestow Wally with a connection to the Speed Force. So from then, The Flash was the source of the power, and Kid Flash was able to tap into the power.

As Wally grew, he learned more about his power, about the Speed Force, and time and time again he's been absorbed by it, lost deep within it, and he's always returned from it. Wally dived deep into the Speed Force and resurfaced, strengthening his bond with it every time. And by now, Wally has completely mastered the Speed Force, and he's officially worthy of being The Flash in his own right, running alongside Barry Allen The Flash as an equal and no longer a sidekick.

Again, just to re-iterate, Wally's bond with the Speed Force and his total mastery of it puts him on the exact same level as Barry Allen, the man who generates and is the source of the Speed Force. Barry and Wally are equals, especially Speed-Force wise.

Now, onto my thoughts on Barry.

>>88804928
That's not what happened. They specifically said Barry being dead made the Speed Force stagnant. They're not equals, Barry is Wally's superior, expressly so. That was the point of Rebirth: Barry is the best and greatest by divine right, even if there's no logical way he could shit out the Speed Force and shoot himself with lightning because of a basic grandfather paradox.

>>88804928
Why are so many Barryfags attached to the idea of Barry being the "creator" of the Speed Force?

It's so counter intuitive to everything the Speed Force represents and is. It's a narrative blight that even the creator of the concept refused to revisit.

It is a retcon that didn't even survive a year -- when the New 52 kicked off they tossed it completely out the window because it was absolutely pointless. With no other speedsters around they didn't need a shitty narrative twist to immediately make Barry everyone's superior -- he was not "competing" anymore so the point of him creating the Speed Force lost the value of making him the bestest ever.

It was writers putting power level wanking into a comic and it stands forever as absolute garbage of the worst kind. It is only ever brought up to talk about how Barry is more powerful than everyone. There's nothing interesting to derive from the concept. As a matter of fact, it singlehandedly destroys everything interesting about the Speed Force.

>>88804928
I think Barry Allen's relationship with the Speed Force needs to be emphasized. I mean, Wally's has been emphasized so much in his own stories, I think the same should apply to Barry. I mean, Barry is the source of the Speed Force. That should become a bigger factor in his stories than it is now. And it should play a big part in Barry as a character.

The fact of the matter is, Barry Allen The Flash is pretty much a God. The Speed Force is pretty much the very concept of kinetic energy and motion wrapped in lightning and electrical energy and flowing throughout the timestream, touching every facet of space and time and being the engine that moves everything forward into the future. The Speed Force has also been called "The Light" by the Gorillas, Max Mercury, and it pretty much played that role recently in the recent Flash storyarc with the Shade and the Shadowlands. And this grand extradimensional field of speed heaven and light comes from Barry Allen. Think about it. Think about what that means. I think Barry should fully realize what that means ability-wise. The kind of stuff he does as the Flash needs a major upgrade. In the New 52, we have seen many other Speed Force Conduits and they all had very unique powers. Age manipulation, Centrifugal Force, etc. There's a ton of different things that the Speed Force can do.

I'm not actually saying Barry should fully possess every single skill that each of these speedsters have. I mean, not fully. Barry is the source of all these abilities, so the way his own abilities are portrayed should feel like it. The way Barry Allen should operate as The Flash should fully encompass all the motion-related, lightning-related, spacetime-related, etc, factors of the Speed Force all wrapped up together as one thing. The Flash should be able to do move things with his mind, manipulate the wind and lightning to greater extents than he's done so far, alter the flow of time, and so on. (TBC)

>>88805314
Now, just to be clear, I am not saying Barry should have full complete skill in every one of those areas individually. Like I said, he is the SOURCE of the Speed Force, his abilities should function like every one of those facets mashed together as one single concept. His power is the source of every other Speed Force Conduit's power, which is why I say Barry's powers should function like every single one of them mashed together into one single idea, and not just be the extremely basic running fast alone.

Instead, I think Wally should be the one fully capable of using every single extent of every single one of those abilities individually. He's the one that can fully tap 100% into the Speed Force and has the closest connection to it beyond anyone, something that was even further strengthened now in the New 52. So, he should have every single ability that every single Speed Force Conduit has ever displayed to it's ultimate possible extent.

>>88805461
About Barry's own character and personality and stuff... um...

Maybe a bit of that song "Ballad of Barry Allen" could actually be applied to him and how he sees the world. I mean, like, because of his Speed Mind, the rest of the world literally seems so slow to him and the way that he thinks with the lightning accelerating his mind... I'm not saying he should be perma-stuck in that state of walking in a world of statues. I mean, since he is essentially a 'Speed God', he should be able to adjust to any speed, higher or lower.

Anyways, Barry's slow and methodical approach of taking his time doing things and stuff, he could pretty much remain acting that way unchanged whether he's Barry or the Flash, but it has a completely different meaning and affect and stuff depending on which he is. Like, when he's Barry and operating at much lower speeds, he appears to be doing things very slowly. But when he's the Flash and operating with the full extent of the Speed Force, then it's the complete opposite. He's doing all these things so fast. Because he thinks faster than light, and does things very methodically and carefully, it's like... it's exactly why he can read a construction book and rebuild a building brick-by-brick in the blink of an eye.

And... uh... um... I need to do more thinking.

>>88805748
Ok, how about this?

Because he's the Source of the Speed Force, which is a conglomerate of speed and lightning, what if, Barry has an eternal struggle between himself and the power. I don't mean like what Wally went through in Terminal Velocity. I mean like... um...

Let's say, because of the Speed Force existing within him, Barry has this constant need to be active. Like, being forced to stand still and do absolutely nothing will drive him insane. He constantly needs to be doing SOMETHING. He must stay active. Like, he's addicted to action and work and anything involving motion. And, in a situation where's forced to stay completely still, his mind would start racing and speed up to absurd levels, and his body would start vibrating and sparking with a lot of electricity, and ...

Basically like what if the 'Lightning' aspect of the Speed Force was played up a bit? Like, there's a trope called 'Psycho Electro', which partially involves being filled with so much electricity and lightning would have a physical and mental affect on you. I'm not saying to make Barry crazy, I'm just saying he could potentially end up in a state where he 'loses himself' to the speedforce (NOT like how Wally does) and ends up running wild like a crazed supercharged lightning storm or something, moving all over the place out of control with no direction or... ok, I'm having a tough time describing what I have in mind.

>>88790270
It's the writers' fault, not the character's.

>>88790349
God forbid someone have a different opinion than you. Fuck off with this "you clearly don't know your Flash" shit.

>>88806728
It actually is. Barry and Wally don't coexist well.

>>88806103
They did that with Bart Allen. The whole "Speed Force inside me aching to be used" thing.

It's hilarious how you keep reusing done stories. Even bad ones.

Turning The Flash into The Hulk is different, but it doesn't sound too appealing. It's kind of sad to see you struggling to avoid any pitfall that ends with "Wally did it." You keep reiterating "slow and methodical" but you do know slow and methodical is boring, right?

Barry has been living the "Slow and methodical but super fast" dichotomy forever. It was literally the core premise of his character. This time around it's been done before, by Barry, and it is one of the many reasons he was kicked out the door as a dead end boring character.

>>88806761
But he's right, that dude clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

It's like going into a Superman thread and bitching about why Superman doesn't just kill Lex Luthor. You tell them "you don't know shit about Superman" and then there's faggots like you who pop in and go "DON'T JUST SAY HE DOESN'T KNOW HIS SHIT, IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT OPINION."

Being stupid and wrong is a different opinion but it's still stupid and wrong.

>>88807062
Well, I mean, like, having Barry be a guy that was born and raised as a slow-paced guy but after becoming the Flash he has this constant urge and need to "run". Not just the simple "oh he's the fastest man alive but he's always late" thing. With even the electrical side of it affecting him. Like, because of his powers, he's somewhat volatile and twitchy and can't sit still.

>>88802945
>Injustice
>Fighting game
>Good
Pic 1

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>>88789907
Most underrated post of the thread.

>>88775305
I'm sure he'd find a way to clone/create a younger body and transfer his consciousness to it.

>>88789907
Bringing back a long dead character whose death is integral to a far more successful decade spanning character's development is bad writing.

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>>88808351
I fucking love Wally and I despise the fact that he got shoved into some dead-end Titans book with a bunch C/D-listers and Dick. And don't get me started on that worthless little nigger brat took Wally's place, but I highly doubt Barry is going anywhere. The writers for some ungodly reason wanted Barry back, so here he is.

Besides, it's comics and death is a revolving door. It was probably only a matter of time anyway; Barry's revival just took longer than most.

>>88809265
>worthless little nigger brat

Jesus Christ dude

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>>88763819

YES

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Reminder

>>88807238
I was paraphrasing because I thought it was obvious but that is what has been done before. You're just using the basic story principles Barry always has, always the urge to run off somewhere or to something despite being a slow doof.

>>88807569
This

>>88808157
Agreed

>>88808157
>>88814787
If fans want good stories then they want Wally.

>>88815072
I want good Flash stories about Barry.

>>88815107
I'm sorry anon, but as has been thoroughly shown the last 8 years, that's not possible.

>>88763819
He happened to be there for modern characterization arcs and myth arcs.

His succession was a huge part of his character

>>88815125
Nothing is impossible.

>>88815142
Barry's been around for modern characterization and it hasn't made him super interesting. It's not like they even stopped making books with Barry in them after he died, BatB and JLA Year One can attest, not to mention elseworlds and other flashback stories.

>>88815199
I'm just waiting for Morrison's Barry centric Multiversity issue to also be boring to pronounce that character dead (boring).

>>88815242
When is that supposed to come out, again?

>>88815257
Who knows? The original Multiversity got shoved back like 5 times. Morrison is super busy and he writes Multiversity at his leisure.

>>88815107
>I want good Flash stories about Barry.

It's been 10 years and not a single story that can hold candle to any Mark Waid or Geoff Johns Wally stories.

>>88763889
Kek. Good one, Geoff.