What If? Jim Shooter bought Marvel

>>88747082
Everyone would walk becaue he's mean-spirited and deadlinefag.
On the other hand, Dazzler would be A-lister.

>>88747113
>deadlinefag
>implying that's a bad thing.

>>88747113
It didn't happen at Valiant, why would it happen there?
>deadlinefag
REEEE MY BOSS WANTS ME TO DO MY JOB!

Is /co/ the only pro-Shooter place?

>>88747269
This and Valiant fans forums.

>>88747269
>>88747132

>Valiant fans on /co/

Thought I was the only one and how are you finding Harbinger Renegade so far? I like it, Alexander seems like an awesome character.

Also since they are making a movie who would you cast for each character? Here are my picks:
Toyo Harada-Ken Watanabe
Livewire-Danai Gurira
Peter Stancheck-Dane Deehan
Faith Herbert-Mae Whitman
Bloodshot-Jensen Ackles
Alexander Solomon-Colman Domingo
Maser Darque-Clancy Brown
Armstrong-Jeffry Dean Morgan

>>88747269

Because /co/ is a shithole of tryhard contrarians who don't read comics

>>88747899
But anon, Shooter may have been a grade-A asshole but he presided over one of the best periods of Marvel history. There were some misteps sure, but Shooter was objectively one of the best EiC's Marvel's ever had.

He just went a bit loony/power-mad in the last third of his tenure which caused him to drive away a lot of their talent.

>>88747082
>Do they create the Valiantverse anyway?
I was going to say no, but it actually is possible. Shooter always wanted his own OC superhero universe even during his tenrue at Marvel, which was what gave rise to the New Universe. In fact, you could almost see some of the legacy of the New Universe in early Valiant. Like a more refined version that didn't make the same mistake that the NU did (creating a "world outside your window" universe that proceeded to stay that way despite how things kept changing in-universe).

>>88747875
>Toyo Harada-Ken Watanabe
Harada is a hateful hateful character, but fund it.

>>88747992

He's without a doubt one of my favourite characters in the Valiant universe, I especially liked his origin in the Valiant relaunch which got me back into buying comics due to how great the artwork was in that issue. Suayan did a great job with the art.

>>88748045
Harbinger is not one of my faves but I follow it because I want to see Harada so dead. Which maybe is the secret to ensure a following in comic books

>>88748086

Funny, I feel the opposite but about Peter, Dysart really did a good job of illustrating how they are both people who do bad things but while trying to accomplish good with them but he's written them so fantastically I am in a perfect in balance of whether I love and hate both characters.

>>88747113
Nigga if they're not walking under Ike, they're not walking under anyone.

>>88747132
He got asked to step down at Valient, iirc. He was gone pretty early on.

>>88748592
Because one of the associates was sleeping with another.

>No Jim Shooter
>No Venom or Valiant universe

Why can't Stan Lee die so Jim can take full creative control and fix Marvel? He's done more good than harm.

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>>88747082
Well, Carol stays gone forever. That's one thing.
Makes me wonder who else is there to push when they need a "Wonder Woman". No-one else Storm-through-Shulkie ever built enough internal lore for it.

>>88748342
>Wolfman
>Gerber
>Byrne
Nigga, do you even Shooter?

>>88748689
No Venom?
I'mma keep this tab open after all, sounds like there's a lot of history I don't know about.

>>88748699
Janet :^)

>>88748699
Monica Rambeau.

>>88748722
Shooter wrote Secret Wars, where Venom appeared for the first time.
Plus Birth of Venom.

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>>88748725
You know what, I can see it. Carol appropriated Captain Marvel because there have been so many and at least she was there from the beginning. Same can be said for Jan & Ant-Man.
>>88748730
NO

>>88748753
Oh, I skim read your post and thought you meant Jim hated the idea and Venom could have only happened without him. My bad.

>>88747927
It was a good period, but the period before it was better, despite the internal chaos.
Secret Wars was bad, bad, bad, however, and it kicked off the crossover fucking up shit trend we still have today. Bad comic with a toxic legacy. That's on Shooter.
Deadline faggotry is only cool if you're okay with shitty fill in artists, because that's what it leads to. It also leads to shit like Stan Lee pissing off Steranko to the point where he quit doing Cap.
It's really only good in the short term. Fans of Jim Lee are not excited by a Rich Buckler guest appearence.

>>88748783
>NO
You never read her 1980s appearances.

>>88748753
>>88748813

Pretty sure he bought the idea of Venom off of someone in the Letter Hacks for $200 or so. I honestly feel like Jim is what'll fix Marvel but there seems to be a lot of dislike for him. If he has any control of modern Valiant then I would love if he was let back onto Marvel, Valiant is what I feel like a modern comic book universe should be and I don't even mind the SJW or PC shit since they handle it pretty well. In Marvel it just feels obnoxious.

>>88747927
>he presided over one of the best periods of Marvel history

Except he killed the best period of Marvel history by chasing away all of the talent responsible for it.

>>88748843
>shitty fill in artists, because that's what it leads to
Bullshit. It's just that some people can't stop using the Internet instead of doing their job.

>>88748900
Yeah, by doing what any boss should do...

>>88748904
Ease up, there wasn't an internet during shooter's tenure, which is specifically the topic.

>>88748884
I have. She's every bit the bland STRONK wymyn everyone accuses Carol of being.
Her defining character trait was "leader of the Avengers" FFS, people were taking the piss out of it long before Ellis.

>>88748887
Valiant sued Shooter over Gold Key characters so I doubt they'd let him come on board.

>>88748922

What is this vague non-argument supposed to mean? The boss is responsible for the effect the policies they enacted has on the company and the effect of Shooter's policies is chasing away the greatest talent in the industry and killing Marvel's most creative era.

>>88748945

>Always hated Stan Lee
>Preferred Jim Shooter

Is it me and my love for Valiant making me this blind or is this a normal feel?

>>88748939
Different anon, are you talking about Monica- or Jan? Both led the Avengers during Stern's run, and both did so in a unique way. Leader isn't a comprehensive description of either character.

>>88748922
Not even close.

>>88748938
So they were always lazy?

>>88748939
>casual

>>88748977
>oh evil boss, wanting muh delicate snowflakes to work!

>>88749012
Stan is worth 100 shooters, anon.

there's some video series of Shooter just talking about Marvel for like hours, i'm shocked /co/ hasn't organized a livestream of it yet

>>88748977
Sooo... if you were a creator and your boss demanded you to adhere to the deadlines, would you throw a hissy fit and ragequit?

>>88749080

I feel like Jim is better at bringing things to life while Stan is more the idea man conceptually.

>>88749066
I don't much like John Byrne, but if it's the 80's and you drive him away to DC, you have fucked up. There's no hiding that behind timeclocks, calendars and org charts. Shooter fucked up at his job. A lot.

>>88747899
This. When superbro was alive co wanted superdad. Now Superdad is alive co wants superbro back.

When Spidey isn't married co wanted a married Spiderman book. We get one and co goes "meh".


co liked Young Justice before it became mainstream? Now its "not muh DCAU" circlejerk.

It doesn't help that we get a spike up on casual 14 year olds who think they have figured out how to make comics appeal to a wider audience.

>>88749121
>you have fucked up
Post-Superman Byrne wasn't worth much, anon.

Besides, the only reason why he was fired was because someone filmed that orgy of Marvel creators where they burned New Universe comics down, and sent it to the owners of Marvel.

>>88749119
Stan's accomplishments are so far beyond Shooter's I don't even know how to compare them.
Fuck, Stan tenure on ASM alone is more important than Shooter's entire career- by an order of magnitude. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

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>>88749017
Over the past few years I have happenstantially read what I suspect constitutes Mon's entire Avengers run, origin to downfall. She exhibited no unique traits to me besides the bare basics of what constitutes a hero.
At most I can call her confident & resourceful, based on how she snuck into the facility where she got her powers.

>>88749163
>Stan
>creating
>ever
The Sheeple, pls

>>88749161
He was worth sales, Anon. Lots and lots of them. Shooter was a fuck up, get over it.

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>>88749066
>shit taste

>>88747927
As another anon pointed out, Shooter also killed Marvel's best history.

He was just the right guy to keep them in line and continue their quality but the power went to him and that cost him deeply.

There are several stories of Shooter where he goes full tyrannical when Characters don't act the way he wants them too.

Case example of Wolverine maturing but Shooter wanting him to revert back into some beserker dumbass.

If Shooter ever bought Marvel, it would suffer a slow painful death in an entirely different manner to what its going through now.

>>88749187
>sheeple
>buying the 'Stan did nothing' meme
You have to be 18 to post here.

>>88748689
Stan Lee hasn't had any control on Marvel editorial in decades.

>>88749195
>>88749212
How's everything, Byrne? Still learning to use PhotoShop for your Star Trek "comics"?

>>88749196
>Ellis
He wouldn't have lasted much under Shooter's administration.
>Warren, I don't care if you puked on your hard disk again! You finish the comic or I'll give it to someone else!

>>88749245
To our everlasting regret.

>>88748705
Are any of those people currently working under Perlmutter?
It literally can't be worse than now.

>>88749223
>>88749253
Still liking it in the ass, Sheeple?

>>88749260
Do read comics?

>>88749260
Gerber is going to write a new Howard comic. Nyuk nyuk

>>88749084
links?

>>88749265
Try not to get too much Captain Crunch on daddy's keyboard, anon.

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>>88749250
It's Busiek actually.
That raises a very good point: how would Busiek have fared under Shooter?
He's probably the #1 reason why Carol's where she's at now, since he's the one who rescued her from limbo and built her back up from the bottom.

>pre-Shooter Marvel
>constant delays, no serious edition is made
>just like today
You know what this means, right? The day Alonso is gone and they hire someone who takes the job seriously, all the Marvel talent lol will leave.

>>88749311
I'll clean it with your tears.

>>88749283
Do speak English?

>>88749316
>Busiek brought Carol back to fuck over Marvel
Nice.

>>88749260
Wolfman didn't return, others did.

How did Shooter feel about Anti-Venom? Considering he created the character of Venom/Brock I'd love to hear his opinions on that form, personally I loved it since Brock evolved and progressed a lot but I hated how they pretty much screwed his personality afterwards.

Isn't your boss keeping you to a deadline or firing you if you don't make it part of any job?

>>88749463
>asking that in a board for NEETs

>>88749354
?
>>88749426
Michelinie created Brock.
Although looking it up found me this:
>The preexisting elements that dealt with the symbiote costume itself - to which Michelinie did not contribute - was conceived of by a Marvel Comics reader from Norridge, Illinois named Randy Schueller. Marvel purchased the idea for $220.00 after the editor-in-chief at the time, Jim Shooter, sent Schueller a letter acknowledging Marvel's desire to acquire the idea from him, in 1982.
Sheeeit that's kinda cool of Big Jim.

>>88749017
Forgot to add: if you've got any examples to offer of Monica's tenure being unique I'm eager to hear them. It's totally possible I overlooked something. I like her just fine, but as the D-supporting character she's always been. /co/ wayyyyyyyyy overrates her IMO.

>>88749699
/co/ likes Nextwave
/co/ doesn't like Carol.
Do the math, nigga.

>>88747113
>deadlinefag
let's hope you're never in a position of power

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>>88749699
Can that Nazi Carol do this?

>>88749727
Hey, if Axel Alonso can, so can any other lazybones.

It's like you kids don't remember how fucking late some books used to be ten years ago. Remember when Ultimates 2 took like a year to produce the last issue? Or when Wonder Woman relaunch literally had to finish it's first arc in an annual months after the fact?

>>88749720
Usually yeah, but he sounds like he knows his shit so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
>>88749752
Never did I deny she had cool powers anon. That wasn't the point being argued.
Besides, can she eat the sun?

>>88748725
... Y'know what, you're probably right. She lead the Avengers during Secret Wars, by Shooter himself, and got a significant power upgrade later in the 80s during Sternvengers. If they sped up her getting the Giant Woman powers some, she'd easily be a good contender for it.

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>>88749786
Would Jim Shooter have 100% ensured the last 2 issues of Strange Tales v4 got published?
This is important.

>>88749813
>can she eat the sun?
If she's hungry enough, yes.

>>88748977
As much as I enjoy Jim Starlin's LSD trips, the 70s were also a financial disaster for Marvel- if Shooter hadn't put their shit together it would have gone out of business before Frank Miller even got his first Spider-Man gig. If the price to pay was allowing John Byrne become what he is, so be it.

>>88749615
>Sheeeit that's kinda cool of Big Jim.

Remember that Jim Shooter got into comics at age 15 by submitting unsolicited Legion of Superheroes scripts to DC in order to make extra money for his household.

>>88749786
>Ultimates Two
In a goid world we could have gone on waiting forever.

>>88749119
>Stan Lee
>Idea man
Pull the other one, it's got bells on it

>>88749981
wut, the second series was still good. it was only the following ones that sucked

>>88749894
>if Shooter hadn't put their shit together it would have gone out of business
He usually had to convince the Cadence guys who didn't give a fuck about comics in the first place not to shut down the publisher.

>>88749894
The price for what though? 7-8 years almost as good as the preceding 20, followed by the decades long rolling shit storm since?
Nah.

>>88750000
Stan Lee is a god of marketing.

>>88750220
So you admit he never was a creator. Good.

>>88750192
>the preceding 20
They were shit.

>>88747082
Most of the editorial staff would leave, anyone still at Marvel would either have been loyal to Shooter or have to grovel and be heavily pushed around by Shooter. Remember that he was so hated back then that they burned him in effigy. Byrne wouldn't be back so he wouldn't be doing Namor or his return to She-Hulk. DeFalco might not be writing Fantastic Four; Steve Englehart or Walt Simonson might've continued working on the FF. Vince Colletta would still stay on because of his loyalty to Shooter, but he'd probably have passed away in the early 90's same as in real life. Shooter's staff probably might've been the same as it was at Valiant. Maybe Priest might've come back to Marvel earlier.

I think the excesses of early 90's Marvel might've been avoided. Shooter might've also tried to strengthen the Epic line more.

Some of the Image guys may become popular but we don't know if they would've become as popular as they did during the DeFalco era. Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee are very business-like so I think they can negotiate with Shooter pretty well. And I know it's fashionable to take shots at McFarlane, but if you look at his runs on Hulk or Spider-Man at the time, he only didn't do the art for one issue of Hulk and I think 3 issues of ASM. He was reliable and popular which helped in his favor.

>>88747980
This is also likely too. He probably would've had the Valiant characters created sans Gold Key characters. But I don't believe they would've been as popular because they're technically competing with Marvel's own books. Valiant worked because it was its own thing.

>>88750691
The best answer, at last.

>>88749316
Busiek did work for Marvel during the 80's. In fact he did some text for Marvel Age, wrote a few issues of Power Man and Iron Fist, and I think he would've done okay provided he still gets to work on Marvels with Alex Ross. What happens after depends on what sequence of events happens. It depends on how long Shooter is able to maintain control over Marvel the second time around. The owners might want to take the company in different directions than he wants, even if it's not the Revlon guy owning Marvel in this universe.

So if you assume Shooter controls Marvel for most of the 90's and Epic is stronger, then maybe Image Comics doesn't get formed and Busiek does Astro City through Epic.

>>88750461

The 60's and the 70's were shit at Marvel?

Why are you even on this board?

>>88750461
You blew it like six posts ago; take a break.

>>88750691
>Byrne wouldn't be back so he wouldn't be doing Namor
Good, it was shit.
>or his return to She-Hulk
Eh. The best stuff was at the beginning.
Didn't he just retcon everything that's happened since he left?

>>88750691
>Maybe Priest might've come back to Marvel earlier.
What'd Priest do before Panther?

>>88751231
Busiekvegners then. Sorry, forgot about Marvels.
Wasn't Shooter the guy who didn't think continuity was all that important? Continuity was Busiekvegners bread & butter.

>>88751344
>>88751765
The 60s haven't aged well; the 70s, less. Deal with it.

>>88752079
No way, to Shooter continuity was sacred, SACRED!

>>88752039
Many things.

>>88752193

Name comics you like

>>88752193
80s haven't aged well either, compared to later decades. Is it shit by that logic then?

>>88752007
>Didn't he just retcon everything that's happened since he left?
Pretty much.

Actually now that I think of it the only thing about his Namor run is that if he didn't continue it then the later part of Power Man and Iron Fist wouldn't have been retconned. Someone else might've brought Iron Fist back in a different way.

Another thing I remembered now, Byrne wrote Iron Man during the early 90's and introduced the subplot that Tony Stark's nervous system would be badly affected (and later on he would be "dead" under the next writer and James Rhodes takes over as Iron Man with the War Machine armor). With Byrne's animosity toward Shooter I don't even know if that would happen.

Then again, Byrne also did Armor Wars II because Michelinie and Layton quit, IIRC. I wonder if they would've stayed on if Shooter took control of Marvel again.

>>88752268
>the 90s > the 80s
Liefeld pls

>>88752252
It would be a very long list. And you'd say "it's shit" automatically out of butthurt.

>>88752039
He was an editor and writer at Marvel during the 70's and 80's and he was going by his real name, Jim Owsley. He changed his name to Christopher Priest in the 90's.

>>88752302
>And you'd say "it's shit" automatically out of butthurt.

You mean like you're doing now?

>>88747113
fucking waiting 9 months for a 4 part story

>>88752345
I read some things by Lee and Kirby and found them too creaky. Sorry grandpa.

>>88752302
>That reading comprehension
No wonder you got shit taste.

>>88752373
I guess you sure proved >>88752377 correct about you

>>88752377
>the 80s are shit
>>88752302

>>88752395
I said it's shit if we use your stupid logic of it not ageing well.

>>88752039
He did stuff for DC after he left Marvel.

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>>88752394
>>88752429

>>88752443
Yep, it's the guy who resorts to reaction images when he's losing an argument again.

>>88752465
>look, Ma, I won an online argument!
Man, no wonder Marvel is dead.

>>88752517

Fuck off back to /tv/

>>88752326
Based.

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>>88752300
Namor only got gud when he left.
Immediately after he left, actually. It's quite uncanny.

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>>88752326
In the 70s he already looked like a cool mother--

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>>88752636
/tv/ fucking WISHES Marvel was dead.

>>88752079
Busiek probably might've done Avengers. But it came up in Heroes Return after Heroes Reborn which came up because Marvel had problems and the Image founders had broke off and became popular.

>>88749150
If you look at story times for it, Renew Your Vows has had a positive reception here.
It's pretty much just continuityfags bitching about it being an alternate universe when they complain.

>>88753208
>Renew Your Vows has had a positive reception here
Here is not enough for it to sell well.

>>88752881
fair enough, totally different timeline.