How do we fix Shazam?

>>88735615
Change his name to Captain Thunder if you can't do Captain Marvel

>>88735615
I ask this as a person who has literally never read a Captain Marvel book in my life:
What is the purpose of having him be a child? Does it come up in stories? Does his child mind get warped by the sick bullshit he sees as a hero? More or less, how does the secretly a child aspect factor into the narrative of Captain Marvel stories?

>>88735740
>What is the purpose of having him be a child?
when you were a kid did you ever wish you can turn into Superman?

>>88735801
So is the book just for children? I get the self insert aspect but my question is how that fits into the book.

>>88735615
He needs his own book or at least more focus in JL

>>88735615
Shazam hasn't been an A-:ister since DC bought him. I don't think he'll ever be one again, the weird whimsy of his series has never fit that well with DC's general editorial directions. He's always thrust into generic superhero roles, whereas the original Captain Marvel was an adventurous boy who would get into weird situations that were sometimes dangerous, but just as often simply annoying or funny. It wasn't supposed to be "child gets constantly traumatized by gore and tragedy'. Johns' story wasn't perfect, but it did capture quite well that Captain Marvel is more about emotion than logic.

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>>88735894
It's endearing. He's just a kid who wants to do right in the world.

The 2019 movie will pretty much be his moment.
If he doesn't become big of it, he's done

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>>88736229

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>>88736265

>>88735615
It's not about fixing him, it's about not fucking him up.

>>88736265
>Superman thinks for a split second cap marvel is a pedo

>>88736303
He looks so smug in those last two panels.
It's still a good scene, but damn is that art not reflecting the tone.

>>88736497
I don't see smug, I see disgust, as in disgust who ever did this to him

>>88736466
I'm sure everyone thinks he's a pedo or at least autistic. it's probably the shittiest part of his power.

>>88735615
give him a fucking ongoing

>>88735615
He hasn't been an A-lister since the 40's m8.

>>88735615

He'll never be good, be allowed to be good, while shoe-horned into the same world as Superman. It just doesn't work, for Captain Marvel to work he needs to be the World's Mightiest Mortal, DC will never allow him to outshine, even equally shine, as their core superhero.

Want to make him great again? Bring back Earth-S.

>>88736538
This. It's hard to "fix" him if he never shows up anymore.

Go back to calling him Captain Marvel.

>>88735615
You don't fix him, you forget about him on Earth-1 and made him have retro-adventures on Earth-5 on the style of Thunderworld or the Convergence tie-ins

>>88736497
>>88736516
This. Supes is realizing someone put a kid in harm's way and he's about to blow a gasket

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>>88736466
He's not the only one.

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>>88736303

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>>88736689

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>>88736706

>>88736548
>Bring back Earth-S
This

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>>88736725

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>>88736747

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>>88736768
I love First Thunder.

>>88736533
>that part in Formerly Known as the Justice League where Max wants Billy to join

>>88736747
Imma need a source on this

Pre nu52 was captain marvel ever on any teams/played an important role? I really enjoyed his comics and would like to see him in a team/teamup comic.

>>88736656
Jay is one of those guys you can trust like Superman

>>88736794

Man this is amazing, thank you.
Is he a good foster father to him?

>>88736548
They could ate least not put Batman to punch him or not making wonder Woman making a scar on him.
Maybe the movie and Harley Quinn can help him.

>>88735615
Guide him inton he thor slot of the jl, deal with the big mythical threats, create more mythical threats, give him a rogues gallery thats memorable, team him up with WW or jl dark, dr fate. give him back the good costume, without the freakin hood[\spoiler]

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Is there a Captain Marvel/Shazam recommended reading list? So far, I've only read DC Showcase and watched the Return of Black Adam short, but I'm really loving this character.

>>88736946
I loved his intro in New52 Justice League. Shame it didn't lead to his own book though

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>>88736946
Pic related

>>88736862
He doesn't actually adopt him sadly.

>>88736841
Superman/Shazam: First Thunder

>>88737020
Aw man, magical super son would be cool.
Think about it, everyone else is in permanent danger of being killed.

Billy less so.

>>88737020
>He doesn't actually adopt him sadly.
Why hasn't DC done this? Even as an Alt.U thing.

>>88735740
>What is the purpose of having him be a child?

Your other questions answer that one. It lets you tell different kinds of stories than with an adult superhero. If he were not a child, he would not be Captain Marvel, just another Superman clone.

>>88737214

This.

The thing that makes the character interesting is that he's really the mind of a kid, even when Capt Marvel/Shazam .... so many good stories could come from that weird dissociation, but no, why would DC allow that to happen.

>>88737500
Shazam out sold Superman once before, they don't want that to happen again. Even if they own the character now.

>>88736466
the JSA thought he was a Pedo

>>88736656
Source?

>>88737214
The point I was wondering about was if they actually used the unique aspect of his character to tell unique stories. According to >>88737500, the answer to that is no, so I'll just continue to ignore the character.

>>88737557

Even with how bad things have been with Marvel the last 2-3 years or so that is the one thing they really have going for them, they dont shy away from putting a kid/teen into a hero role..... the only time you see that in DC is with the Titans or i guess Legion although theyre not around anymore.

>>88736768
>...I need an adult
>I am an adult

>>88735615
Give him a fuckin book!

>>88738075
For two companies that copy each other constantly, they sure are out to be nothing like one another.

>>88735740

While Clark Kent is Superman in disguise, Captain Marvel willingly reverts back to the near powerless for of a child after the work only he can do is done - that keeps his perspective clear about what it's like to be vulnerable.

Also, at a younger age it was perhaps more likely for a spirit to remain pure enough to deserve the powers in the first place, which is where the contrast with Black Adam tends to come in.

>>88737196

Better yet: Billy Batson as a Robin.

Both Batson and Bruce Wayne are orphans, after alll, but young Batson never got the benefit of a family fortune and a dedicated butler.

But I'd just settle on the hat-and-trenchcoat guy that took him to the wizard to be retconned into being the Phantom Stranger.

>>88738006

If he were an adult scenes like this would have a lot less impact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIuK_r0kcQg - I love this sample of why he deserves the powers in the first place.

>>88736643

But Captain Marvel isn't a kid. He is an adult with the wisdom of solomon, having Cap be a kid's mind in an adult body makes no sense given one of his powers is effectively anti-innocence.

Supes not wanting to "put a kid in harm's way" in the case of Cap makes as much sense as not wanting to put Batman in harm's way because Bruce used to be a small child. He was at one time but he isn't anymore, adults can make their own adult decisions, especially one.

A modern take on Cap won't work until someone decides what to do with the whole Wisdom issue. Is he a naive little boy piloting an adult body (which makes for more interesting stories, imo), or does he become of adult mind when in Cap form (which seems strongly suggested, if not outright unavoidable, with the Solomon power)? Pick one, you can't have it both ways.

>>88738006
I don't think that anon was not saying there are no good Shazam stories that deal with that, just that there weren't any current stories doing that.

Although if you're inherently dismissive something like a child hero, to the point it needs explicit justification, I doubt he's for you.

>>88740117
What Superman sees is a boy taking the form of an adult to fight evil and put himself in harm's way. Or were you just using that post as an opportunity to rag on Nu52 Shazam?

Even then, Shazam lost his Wisdom of Solomon, so it looks like he's free to be a dumb kid in whatever form he chooses

>>88740117
He is a kid. He is a very mature kid for his age and he has the added wisdom of solomon, which he doesn't always follow.

>given one of his powers is effectively anti-innocence.
Going to need a source on this because that can't be true. One of the reasons he was chosen was for his innocent soul.

>>88736768
It's goofy time

>>88737115
batman should adopt him

>>88739927
and because his name is literally BAT SON

>>88736768
Now it is Billy who thinks Superman is a pedophile

>>88737020
Huh, not as much as i had hoped
I like Billy, i just wish DC cared about the better superman.

>>88735740
>by the sick bullshit he sees as a hero?
What is wrong with you?

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I think Mary Marvel is really qt.

>>88740910
Still hot, even in New 52. At least it wasn't all ruined

Then again she only had the one appearance I think. So maybe my silver lining is little dim

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>>88736265
>>88736303
>>88736689
>>88736706
>>88736725
>>88736747
>>88736768
>>88736794
Nice Mini storytime. You're the real captain anon!

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>>88736548
>Their core superhero
>Superman
>Implying

Marvel just needs a modern solo series. I think he would do well with a digital series like Adventures of Superman.

>>88740407
>>88740438
>Superman: I don't think children should be superheroes.
>Batman: Well I do, and I'm shopping for a sixth Robin. Seventh? I'm not sure anymore. But most of them never died!

>>88736852
Pre-Infinite Crisis he was part of the JLA and JSA and played a big part during Day of Vengeance.

>>88735615
Alright here's how you fix him:

You go back to him being called Captain Marvel, you call the book something like The Tales of Shazam!, the Magic of Shazam!, the Life and Times of William Batson.

Then you start exploring an orphan in the earli 1960s, fully embrace the joy of the Golden Age, have him meet the wizard Shazam the old wayand use him more of a vessel for you, the reader into the world of magic which you expand, remember his wisdom of Solomon and have him act like a magic mediator, explore realms, meet people, I believe it should be an adventure book, not a book with THE FATE OF THE UNIVERSE IS ON THE LINE.

>>88735740
Power fantasy bullshit for little kids, basically.

That kind of ran its course since the 70s, especially when the 90s dark ages began. But it's one of those "but it's always been that way" things with characters.

>>88735615
His name is Captain Marvel. Notice how everything went to shit once it changed. Like Supes's trunks.

>>88735740
It's pretty cool. Captain Marvel is basically what if Robin never met Batman but gained the magical power to become Superman. Honestly it sells itself I have no idea why DC is having so much trouble with it.

>>88738006
go back to v or tv

>>88740117
Wisdom does not equal maturity bud.

>>88736229
>>88736265
>>88736656
>>88736689
>>88736706
>>88736725
>>88736747
>>88736768
>>88736794
Only Judd Winnick could write something this stupid.

>>88736946
Dark knight strikes again is a must

>>88740777
Well you wouldn't be a hero if you didn't stop rape just because it's icky. Heroes have to save everyone, no matter how sick the situation may be. Why shouldn't Captain Marvel save sex slaves?

>>88743096
Perhaps modern folks who enjoy magical transformation power fantasies don't enjoy the prospect of magically transforming into a dad.

just let parker and shaner write a book for him

>>88741063
Batman's a heavy hitter, but Superman will always be top dog. That's like Sega dethroning Sonic or Nintendies dethroning Mario.

>still an A-lister
>still
What in the actual fuck are you people smoking?

>>88735801
>when you were a kid did you ever wish you can turn into Superman?
No.

Batman, Spider-man, Gambit, GL, something cool, fun or useful, sure.

But no, I never wished to become a flying tank.

That's why that A-Team movie bombed.

>>88745629
He had his own relatively popular TV show and outsold Superman at a point, he was definitely an A-Lister.
He could be one again, but Johns has called dibs and won't let anybody give the kid the ongoing he deserves.

They should give him a animated short series aimed at younger kids, a la DC superhero girls or something.

That, or actually give him a kid-aimed comic, BUT THAT WOULD JUST BE STUPID, RIGHT DC???

>>88745751
>aimed at younger kids
Fuck no.
I don't want some shitty thing like what they did with Krypto.

>>88745844
There is literally no god damn point in creating a character designed as a self insert for younger readers and then not placing said character in stories friendly to younger readers.

Although audience dissonance has been a problem in comics for a long ass time and isn't just limited to Shazam.

>>88745892
Superheroes were better when they were made for children instead of adult nerds.

>>88745892
And they can target it at 10 year olds instead of preschool age kids like you suggested.

>>88745936
1. I didn't suggest jack shit
2. The problem with that plan is it will still be set in the same universe as shit like Dr. Light

>>88745936
Just make it like Marvel Adventures. Or like his original run. But either way, he was always a character meant for kids, it makes no sense for CM to be dealing with anything that isn't Golden/Silver-Age zaniness.

>>88736706
>Superman/Shazam: First Thunder

Thanks, going to have to pick this up. This is the sort of stuff that I just can't get from Marvel. This is what makes DC special, and what they need to take Superman back to. Where his immense power is secondary to his good heart and good will.

>>88745650
>Gambit
Fucking disgusting

>>88745697
>outsold Superman at a point
How long?

>>88735615
>A-lister

Guy can't even get an ongoing.

>>88737196
>>88737115
>Adopted Magic Son Billy (Feels like an outsider sometimes, but is a ray of hope and goodwill)

>Adopted Zod Son Chris (Quiet and shy. A group of Phantom Zone exiles looking to him as their leader could be a potential plot point)

>Adopted Clone Son Kon (Moody older brother)

>Not-adopted Son John (The most vulnerable family member because his half-human heritage shorts out his powers. He can connect to humans in ways the others can't. His other bros tease him about the little farmgirl with a crush on him).

>Cousin Kara (Sometimes babysits the younger sons)

>Adopted Daughter Matrix (Huge identity issues).

Superman already has a Super-family big enough to rival the Bat-family. It's just that no one does anything with them and they keep getting their members exiled to the limbo of non-canon/

>>88740117
>Isn't a kid

It changes all the damn time whether he turns into "someone else" or if he's just Billy with Super powers.

The Wisdom is sometimes basically just a Spider-sense for good ideas and solutions.

>>88745751
but they did you fucking idiot, Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam. BUT OOOOH SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG THERE TOO BECAUSE IT SOLD JACK SHIT YOU FUCKING CRETIN.

>>88749122
Magic of Shazam wasn't good.

Monster of Society however was and its a shame we had only one mini. Mary was such a QT in it.

>>88735615
Hasn't been an A-lister in decades.

I dunno, put more emphasis that he's a kid who has stuff to deal with like homework and shit. Worked for Spiderman

>>88749039
>The Kent Farm for Powered Youths

I would read this forever.