Anyone else underwhelmed by Rebirth? The vibe I get is that it's

By pandering to the old fans, they got the media on their side

The biggers sales are mostly just covering up the fact that they have fewer titles

A lot of books are having a bigger drop than the New 52 in the same amount of time.

>>88725825
Green Arrow and Teen Titans/Titans benefited from it.
I don't think anyone else did.

>>88725825
The first few months weren't bad and actually quite exciting, but I have lost interest in all of their books except Red Hood in the last few month.

So yeah, It's has been really underwhelming.

Marvel shills on the thread, Rebirth has been great if you like to READ.

People that claim is ''underwelming'' probably don't like to read or to read comic books that much or expect everytyhing to be ''FUCKING HYPE!''

That's not how reading works

I think it gets overhyped just because everything else lately has been so mediocre.

>>88725983
*Rebirth has been great if you like MUH REAL CHARACTER

>>88725825
I'm actually loving the even numbered issues of Wonder Woman. I mean, I can understand a lot of people started with Azzarrello and are justifiably salty, but it wasn't my thing and I'm glad to have a more "love and peace and occasional talking to animals" version of the character going on again.

>>88725938
Do you even know the state the Flash and Lantern books were in right before Rebirth?

Rebirth and New 52 are of the same quality

The difference is that they tricked people into thinking Rebirth is "the real DCU that everybody loves" while crucifying the New 52, even though a lot of the books have even more different aspects than they had in the New 52.

Superdad for instance is not Superman. He's completely different in everything else that isn't his persona.

Also, all the good non A-list interesting books are now just minis.

>>88726039
the problem being that Wonder Woman was still a beacon of peace and love while in an engaging story, instead of a collection of panels of Wonder Woman being childish and pure and now autistic.

So when is Manhatten showing up?
Aside from The Comedian in the Batcave, I don't think they've referenced anything about Watchmen.

>>88725825
I found dishonest how they shitted on Moore/Watchmen for being edgy and devoid of hope. while also destroying the charm of "dc", because lol Manhattan stole the love from dc, writers are too obsessed with Watchmen these days!

I find it more dishonest the fact that Geoff McHack wrote Darkseid war and JL origin, and then he complains about how shitty was the new 52 and how he was bringing back the charm, when he was in fact one of the architects of that problem.

Finally, while Rebirth itself is a good book, the regular series quickly went back to edgy grim stuff. Frankly other than some cheap pandering like bringing back Wally West, Rebirth DC is practically the same as New 52 on its overall grim tone. The "happy hope charming" DC didnt last more than 3 issues.

Now even classic Superman is a violent brute that punches first and asks later, when one of the main complains about Nuperman was that he was too violent. Now add I am suicide batman and other shit and you realize this is not better than New 52.

>CWII getting shit on.
>R-rebirth sucks, amiright?
Every time.

>>88726127
>Now even classic Superman is a violent brute that punches first and asks later, when one of the main complains about Nuperman was that he was too violent.

And the worst part is that overall people are fine with it, because DC got them on their side by pretending this was the real Superman.

While New 52 Superman did a lot of good deeds and yet everyone still believed he was an asshole.

>>88726130
>>88725983
>company wars mongoloids

>>/tv/

>>88726127
People hating on Superbro was all Johns' fault
He rarely was an ass outside of the JL origin story that Johns' wrote, and that was the impression that stuck for the New 52

>>88726067
WW was in danger of droppping below 20K before Rebirth.

>>88726127
>Now even classic Superman is a violent brute that punches first and asks later
Only if you read Jurgens' dreck which old fags actually think is good and Hitch's shit. He's perfectly fine in Superman.

>the regular series quickly went back to edgy grim stuff
What? You're kidding right?
>Woah Batman thinks the concept of Batman is stupid
>EDGY

>>88725938
The superman titles have been great

>>88725985
>I think it gets overhyped
This and a lot of their books end up not living up to the hype.

>>88726127
>Rebirth DC is practically the same as New 52
Rebirth was better planned compared to N52, but the writing has been underwhelming except in few books.

The problem this time lay in their writers, not their editor staff like it was in N52.

>>88725983
>That's not how reading works
Comics aren't how reading works. The twice-a-month schedule has hurt the books, too. There is so much decompression going on here.

>>88726039
Rucka just needs to get over himself and retcon shit if he's going to do it and move the fuck on. The book has spent months doing jack fucking shit.

>>88726102
This. Much like Superbro, it seems like some people didn't even read Nu52 Wonder Woman and just decided she was "NOT MUH".

>>88726130
OP here. I will admit that CWII is, on the whole, much worse than the entirety of rebirth... I think. It's hard to weigh a whole relaunch against one event book, but yeah, while Rebirth is disappointing, CWII reminds me just how bad comics can be sometimes.

>>88726169
This. I still can't believe how everyone just looked the other way when Superman started a fight with Lex in a crowded public place with civilians nearby, just because he was wearing his symbol. In general Jurgens writes Superman as the simple punch-factory that normies see him as. But hey, he's pre-Flashpoint and is married to Lois, so BEST CHARACTER EVAR!!!

His run meandered a bit, but I would take Pak's quite, introspective Superbro over this any day. It may have fell a bit flat due to poor execution, but I really miss the DCYou's bold new directions. The concepts were cool as hell. It's pretty obvious that Rebirth is DC going full pandering and trying to pull a 180 from that.

>>88726235
So it's his fault people don't read comics?

>>88726323
I suppose the argument is that it's his fault for making one of Superman's most high-profile appearances paint him in a negative light. At the start of Nu52, Morrison's Action was set in the past and was kind of a cocky asshole, and the main Superman title just straight up sucked, so there wasn't a recognizable version of Superman for a while.

Superman line is good again
Tom King > > > Snyder
Nightwing's pretty good

But it's still odd it's the new 52 universe where no one remembers the legacy. Hoping a crossover/event gives everyone those memories back.

>>88725825
>bland without delivering anything substantial

So, it's the MCU?

Also, why the fuck does this topic always seem to come up whenever Civil War II stuff pops up?

Honestly, I don't see where this negativity is coming from. Some of the big-league titles are mediocre (Justice League; Action Comics; Detective Comics) and of course Batman is incredibly controversial (I like it, personally). But noone really disputes that Superman is awesome, and it has done wonders for smaller titles. The Green Lantern franchise is in its best state since Johns left, I haven't read Flash, but it seems at least to be better than Venditti's shit, Green Arrow is great, Deathstroke is amazing, plus the increased sales through pandering are subsidizing a lot of really, really great stuff (minis, Hanna-Barbera, Young Animal).

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>>88725825

I'm just an oldfag who misses 'muh dc', so there is little point in me weighing in. Just like anything that isn't DCAU/Post-Crisis Batman just won't feel right to me. It all just feels like spinoffs at best and fanfiction at worst to me.

It actually lost them my dollar as a regular customer. All I buy are trades from post-crisis and pre-Flashpoint I don't have, Elseworlds, and DCEU stuff.

Some of the Rebirth stuff is entertaining, but I doubt I'll buy many trades when the old renditions of origins and iconic tales have already been told better and with a more rich history behind them.

>>88726479
>>>/tv/

>>88726102

In her first issue she was cutting centaur legs as if they were leafs with her sword, pal.

I think Rebirth is fine, but the way people respond to Superdad just cements in my mind that they way to fix Superbro would have just been to have him and new 52 Lois elope because that's the only real difference between them right now. He still isn't acting like pre-Flashpoint Superman besides when he was written by the shittiest of writers but people pretend it's him just because of the marriage.

>>88726300
New 52 was more daring and give us a lot of new stuff.

Rebirth is muh nostalgia which is why it got really boring after a while.

>>88726493
No you fucking idiot, no one's debating quality wise. It's just that you guys are so stupid that you don't realize that it's still the same edgy crap from the New 52
>Batman is suicidal
>Wonder Woman is literally insane now
>Superman is still a punch first, ask questions later guy
>Aquaman is still a dick
>Nightwing is still a manwhore
>Flash is still not Wally
How you sheep flock to this I don't know.

>>88726562
>sheep

Let's play a game of spot the fifteen-year-old.

>>88726451

>Tom King > > > Snyder

Honestly? I'd rather have Snyder's Batman.

King's Batman is an utterly broken man and i just don't like that interpretation.

I fucking miss Morrison's Batman, man...

>>88726512
>anything that isn't DCAU/Post-Crisis Batman just won't feel right to me
>he's a "there's only one true version of the character" fan
I'll let you show yourself out.

>>88726512
>DCAUfag
>Dixonfag

please leave

Rebirth's real problem is that it's letting people like this >>88726557 think that the vast majority of New 52 was anything but butt cheeks. Especially when it came to Superman.

The Superman line was almost completely a fucking mess during the New 52 save Morrison's run and the Men of Tomorrow stuff. Those books were fucking garbage and it's mind-boggling how many people are sitting here pining for that trash.

>>88726692
No argument there. Pak was good but he didn't have Morrison's gravitas to not have to be assed to do tie-ins to crossovers and events. Yang didn't even had a chance. Literally the first time he came he's already on a crossover.

>>88726562
>Batman is suicidal
Holy shit, people actually believe this? Are you retarded? Are you illiterate?
>Wonder Woman is literally insane now
I'll admit, I haven't been keeping up with this, but this isn't necessarily edgy.
>Superman
Apart from one instance with Lex Luthor, not seeing it.
>Aquaman
Haven't been keeping up I'm afraid
>Nightwing
Has always been a manwhore, that's not edgy crap.
>Flash
is both Wally and Barry. Though I will admt they're still sidelining him a bit.

But besides all of that, OP is most definitely talking about whether it's good or not, so I don't see how my post isn't relevant.

>>88726557
I personally never hated n52 and thought it was a good idea.

Rebirth isn't bad and there are books that I'm really loving like RHATO and books like GLs and NSM are fun. The upcoming Superman issues seems really interesting and I'm curious to see where Batman and WW are heading next.

The writers just needs to be more daring in their writing and stop pandering to the nostalgia fans.

>>88726606
>Honestly? I'd rather have Snyder's Batman.
Kind of agree. I only really liked him during Court of Owls. Toward the end, Snyder's run was pretty meh. I was excited for King after reading his recent stuff, but damn. He dropped the ball hard. I'm not even that opposed to seeing Batman as a broken man, but all of it just felt so bland. To the point where Batman was just blatantly asking Alfred "WOULD MUH PARENTS APPROVE" while he was going down in a blaze of glory. The book never really recovered from that point. The best thing about King's Batman is his Alfred. When I got to issue 8 or 9 or so, I realized I was just reading the book for him, and I dropped it. Alfred ongoing when?

Of course, then Snyder started writing crazy All Star Batman which I have found to be pretty fun. Not much in terms of depth, but the story moves along, it's pretty high-stakes, and the random, themed villain combos are amusing.

>>88726692
I think you're exaggerating. Pak/Kuder was fine outside of crossovers. Supergirl was mostly fine start to finish. I didn't like the resolution of the Johns/JRJR arc but it was mostly ok. There was basically at least one readable book in the main line the whole time outside of the couple of months between Morrison and Pak. Only difference between that and now with Rebirth is that we have New Super-Man as well.

>>88726728
And yet we have people like OP jerking off to it because

>the concepts were cool and HYPE, it doesn't matter that meandered and slogged and the execution didn't fully live up to it ITS NU

>>88725825
Rebirth made DC readable again. It didn't give us a lot of must read books, but it did stop DC from being utter shit.

>>88726546

Here's the thing about the Superdad/Superbro debacle:

You can change Superman if want it, but that change has to be from the moment Superman and Lois are already married by a couple years. So you can give them a kid, give Superman grey hair, give Lois cancer, whatever. But any changes has to come after they're already an established couple.

When people think of nowadays they don't see a young Superman who's just starting out in Metropolis and is inexperienced and single. And when i say this i'm talking about the casual audience. The people that normally don't read books. No. Since the 90's thanks to shows like Lois & Clark and Superman: The Animated Series everybody see Superman as a wise hero who's happy with Lois. It's a mental image ingrained in popular culture.

I remember that when DC did that huge marketing over that Superman and Wonder Woman kiss in Geoff Johns' Justice League run and went on the Good Morning America to announce that Superman and Wonder Woman were finally a couple in the couples that the hosts were fucking confused by it. They asked about Superman and Lois' marriage and when they were told that they weren't married anymore in the comics and that the SM/WW was something that has been building in the comics since the 80's the hosts kept rambling about Wonder Woman being a homewrecker who didn't respected other women and wasn't a good feminist. It was a super odd and awkward thing to watch. DC doing this big thing on TV and the hosts giving their sympathies to Lois and shaming Wonder Woman.

So yeah. A lot of Superbro's failings with the public had to do with the fact that he was young, the Kents weren't there, he and Lois weren't dating and things like that, he wasn't working for the Daily Planet anymore and so on. Things that people have come to expect. If you keep these things you cam pretty much do anything that nobody will bat an eye.

>>88726692
Rebirth Superman line is hardly better than N52.

Superman and New Super-Man are decent while the rest are all mediocre.

>>88726854
I'll still never understand why they promoted SMWW like they did. Maybe they thought people would love it or something and changed gears once the reactions started up, but it seemed like everyone who wrote the pairing outside of the SMWW book wrote it like it was doomed purposely to show why it was a bad idea (and generally we do know that none of those creators actually ship SMWW). Or just flat out ignored it and had them flirting with other people. Whole thing was just odd.

And it does conflict with the single Superman thing because the reason you do that is so you can play around with Lana and such again. To (theoretically at least, since yeah they did still play around with things a little) sideline all that potential for a committed relationship is just weird. None of it will ever make sense to me as an outsider and I'd really like to hear the real story of what went down on the inside.

>>88726692
Morrison and Johns were pretty great. Not masterpieces, but certainly up there, especially considering how different they were from standard, pre-flashpoint stuff. I'd consider John's one-shot in Superman #39 to be a "must read", honestly. Lobdell's run on Superman wasn't very deep, but it was kind of fun in a "Dragonball Z" way.

I suppose we disagree on Pak. I found his run to be very good. It started strong, and faltered a bit with all the mandatory crossover shit. Unfortunately, DCyou/depowered Supes was a bust, but that one concept was more interesting than anything I've read in Rebirth so far.

>>88726801
This road goes both ways. I would rather have an interesting concept with failed execution than a safe, boring concept with adequate execution. The argument can easily be made that people are only "jerking off" to Rebirth Supes because of "MUH COMFY SUPERDAD" shit. Everyone pretty much admits it. Action and JL are sub-par at best, and nobody can say why Superman is good besides "MUH SUPERMAN".

>>88726866
And the Batman line has been really mediocre too.

N52 has offered better books, but that doesn't mean that there's no good book in rebirth.

>>88726962

The gossip is that the whole SM/WW thing was Jim Lee's idea. Jim Lee push for it when the idea of a reboot was still in the beginning and forced it to happen. Some even say that Geoff Johns wasn't a fan and would rather have BM/WW.

But i think that is just shippers making shit up. DC always had an itch to do the SM/WW pairing in the main canon and Nu52 finally gave them a chance.

>>88726854
All the people you are talking about do not read comics.

And people who read comics do not watch Good Morning America.

>>88727013
>MUH COMFY SUPERDAD
Pretty much. Superman is comfy, but I wouldn't dare to call it great.

>>88726854
Please tell me there's a video of tv people calling WW a homewrecker, that is hilarious to me.

>>88726854
>Things that people have come to expect. If you keep these things you cam pretty much do anything that nobody will bat an eye.
The problem is that Superman is such an iconic character that so many people have had exposure to that almost EVERY part of who he is has an expectation tied to it. Even something as mundane as Clark wearing glasses as part of his disguise. If you found a way disguise Clark without glasses, people would be pissed and normies would be confused, because CLARK KENT WEARS GLASSES.

The moral of the story is that people cannot deal with change of any type.

>>88727049
To me it's safe to say Johns was pretty firmly in the Clark/Lois camp based on how he has generally written them especially with his run on the books. Doesn't make him blameless on the execution of SMWW but it does suggest to me that it wasn't his idea.

>>88727013
I feel like they bungled Truth by turning it into a crossover like they did. The main books were actually good when they stood on their own but the setup and conclusion stuff was just bad.

>>88725825
Deathstroke is the only readable book, while the rest is meh.

>>88727055

Yeah, but my point was that it isn't just old readers being all NOT MUH in regards to Superman. That's just how people in general now perceive Superman in popular culture. They think of Superman and they picture a weird lovechild of Christopher Reeve and Dean Cain.

Take MoS for example. Nobody liked the young, angsty and inexperienced Superman from that movie.

So of course they'll love Superdad even if he smoking crack in alley around Suicide Slum. As long that when he goes home Lois is there and Supes is smiling while starring at nothing all is right in the world.

>>88727098
>The problem is that Superman is such an iconic character that so many people have had exposure to that almost EVERY part of who he is has an expectation tied to it.
Even his underwear.

>>88727122
>Deathstroke is the only readable book
Please, this book is getting really meh.

>>88726692
Superman line is still just as thrash as it was during new 52.

>>88726540
*dead horses turned mindless centaur monsters minutes earlier

did you even read the rest of the book?
it's like people whining about the God of War stuff and "that's not muh WW, muh Diana is not pro-war", when it was made exactly to create conflict because she's against war. Having to carry the burden.

>>88727205
>we will never have a Superman era as based as Kelly through Johns/Busiek again

truly why even live

>>88727228

Diana didn't knew that.

>>88727189
Nice. Have an upvote.

>>88727256
And she had to think fast to save a human life
She didn't even kill the centaurs then

>>88727279
Thanks for the dots.

OP. It is fucking milquetoast. You can't write good stories. Making up shit as you go along, just so they conveniently give you want you want. Nothing is worse than making Wonder Woman whole life of 5 yrs a life and now a mad bitch. Rebirth is worse than the new 52. At least that had some sort of logic and originality. This shit is all over the place. Trying hard to pander to fan boys in their forties and fifties written by the same kind of fan boy writers like Jurgens who wrote the worse Superman story and villain there ever was: Death of Superman.You ever read that story? It is shite. . He is in charge of Superman now. BAKA. DC have screwed their new 52 continuity after making a god awful mess pre new 52 where everything was a bigger mess.

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>>88726540
>Hits centaur with her head to stun him
>Severed one centaur arm because she had too
>They ran away

too violent, not my Diana

>>88727145
>Nobody liked the young, angsty and inexperienced Superman from that movie.
I did. I also liked the young, brash, asshole Superman from Morrison's action. And the quiet, overconfident, loner Superman from John's JL. I think the fun of the character is all the different ways you can portray him while still having him hold the same essential values.

I'm just really tired of Superdad. I feel like most people used to be, or at least never clung to his image as blindly as they do now that other interpretations have crept in.

>>88727256
Should Diana give a shit? They're fucking monsters. Why does every hero have to be a "life is the most precious gift", PETA-loving, tree-hugging faggot? Sometimes, shit has to die. I always thought that, with her warrior upbringing, Wonder Woman was one of the heroes who understood that death is a part of the struggle between good and evil, even before Nu52.

I hate how branching out with characters just makes fanboys cling ever harder to their stupid, flawed, family-safe interpretations just because "MUH FUN!".

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>>88727362
fucking google images thumbnails

>>88727329

Dude, THE NEW 52 continuity WAS a mess.

>>88725938
Deathstroke has been good.

>>88727370

>And the quiet, overconfident, loner Superman from John's JL.

He wasn't quiet at all. He was a bigger asshole than Morrison's Superman.

Morrison's Superman was cocky for like... three or four issues, then the whole "golden age" thing was over and we had "bronze age" Superman.

>>88727370
>Should Diana give a shit? They're fucking monsters. Why does every hero have to be a "life is the most precious gift", PETA-loving, tree-hugging faggot? Sometimes, shit has to die. I always thought that, with her warrior upbringing, Wonder Woman was one of the heroes who understood that death is a part of the struggle between good and evil, even before Nu52.

And she was against killing monsters if they were already beaten and not a threat anymore, as seen with the Minotaur

>>88727329
>Death of Superman.You ever read that story? It is shite
I did. I always thought it was understood that it was awful, but there are a disturbing number of people who put it on some kind of pedestal. As I've said many times before, people seem to just cling to what they remember from yesteryear, whether it was good or not, simply because they remember it, and nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

>>88727145
>>88727370
I feel like you can do anything with Superman if you converge him to the recognizable state by the end of whatever it is you're doing. That's why Morrison (and many Elseworlds) worked while other attempts did not.

>>88727419
>she was against killing monsters if they were already beaten and not a threat anymore
>let monster suffer and die from his wounds instead of finishing him off with mercy
Cold.

>>88727370

>I always thought that, with her warrior upbringing, Wonder Woman was one of the heroes who understood that death is a part of the struggle between good and evil

That's what always end up fucking Wonder Woman characterization. People see that she was trained as a warrior for being an amazon and turn her into Kratos with boobs.

>>88727189
I unfortunately agree with this. The last few issues have been really underwhelming and the upcoming arc doesn't seem interesting.

>>88727385
It really was. But that's in part because they cancelled a lot of the most interesting comics, leaving only the main trinity, and Red Hood. (I'm exxagerrating, but not by much. Remember "Agents of SHADE?" Neither does DC.)

>>88727450
he wasn't dying
he just wanted to live in his comfy maze

>>88727370

>And the quiet, overconfident, loner Superman from John's JL.

The biggest mistake was DC's attempt to turn him into Batman.

>>88727471
I think it's still been good but the slow burn is getting to the reader after it was initially intriguing for being different. It will probably be worth it in the end but feels like a trade waiter due to the pace.

>>88727425
I remember the awesome scene of Steel fighting Brainiac, risking his life for a man who he idolized.

>>88726479
Because Mouseketeers can't help themselves when backed up against the wall.

>>88727456
Yeah, bad writers do stupid shit, nothing new

Just as Rucka turned "peaceful and loving Wonder Woman" into retarded Wonder Woman

And it's funny because Marston's Wonder Woman was very harsh and typical Golden Age dickish, and yet it's the "peaceful ever loving Wonder Woman". That was just relatively, compared to all the Golden Age superheroes that were dicks.

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>>88727362
I remember the CBR and tumblr fags whining that she killed Ares

I also remember Rucka's original run in which she killed Medusa and that giant arm monster

What's with this selective memory bullshit?

I think the problem with Rebirth is the lack of "HAPPENING!" moments that make it seem really boring and underwhelming.

It's just too safe.

>>88727058

the current Superman comic its freaking great, I hope the creative team stays for years, the Tomasi/Gleason combo is stronger Rugal's kicks

>>88727642
Johns is the most HAPPENING writer at DC and he's not writing right now so it's not really a surprise.

>>88727595
People love heroes that don't kill, for some reason. The sentiment has gotten exponentially stronger since Man of Steel came out. Based on how worked up people get on the subject, I imagine some legitimately masturbate over the idea of a hero choosing not to take a life in a situation where they have the opportunity to do so. It's like some kind of weird, reverse, death-cuckoldry.

>>88727797

I think that with Wonder Woman people are just tired of her always defaulting to the Conan personality or getting flake from the World's Finest for killing someone. It's always Wonder Woman who's placed in that position due to being an amazon. That when she's all about peace, love and reformation.

>>88727797
>People love heroes that don't kill, for some reason
Then why are there daily thread with hundreds if replies in which people are crying about Batman not killing the Joker.

>>88726738
>>Flash
>is both Wally and Barry. Though I will admt they're still sidelining him a bit.

Wally's never not gonna be sidelined. Barry's in the movies and TV show and that's all that matters. Wally could sell 200k comics today and Barry would still be "THE" Flash, the guy who gets The Flash comic and the Justice League spot.

Wally's permanently Barry's spinoff character instead of his own character. Something everyone knew would happen the second Flash Rebirth was announced 8 years ago.

>>88727788
Action seemed like it might be HAPPENING, from the early solicits. I mean, Doomsday showing up, Lex pretending to be Superman, and some doppelganger Clark Kent? It was very interesting, but Jurgens somehow found a way to draw it out and water it down so hard that I dropped the book a long time ago. That's our Jurgens.

I blame Johns' editorial for this. His Rebirth plot and forcing down his version of characters down other writers' throat seem to be a constraint for writers to do their own thing.

>>88727908
To be fair the Joker makes no sense anyway. He's not interesting and isn't highly trained. It's not really a question of whether Batman should kill him as much as why no one has managed to just snipe him one day even if the answer (because they need him for future stories) is obvious. Even the usual "other villains keep him around to distract and cause chaos" rings hollow most of the time.

>>88727924
I pretty much knew it was hopeless when they were announcing the books at the Rebirth panel and he didn't know Cyborg Superman was Kara's dad in the new 52. Then I tried reading the first couple of issues and he had seemingly large mistakes like Superdad apparently having fought Doomsday only once or the idea that the new 52 had never faced something called Doomsday before. Why put someone completely clueless on a book that's supposed to be important?

>>88726692
Most people that liked New 52 never read a comic before in their lives.

>>88727908
memes

>>88728264
Mission accomplished

>>88728264
Depends on what you mean. There were a lot of good runs so if you're just saying that aspect of it was good there's no ignorance there, but if you mean the general mythology/continuity/in-universe history then yeah there wasn't much to like.

>>88728264
Well, this is the point of N52. To bring new fans which obviously succeeded.

>>88728304
Pretty much this. I don't care about "DCU shared universe history", so I didn't care. I also read mostly only the good books.

Superman took some time to pick it up, but he was already fine before the DCYou.

>>88728304
That's precisely what I mean. Individually, here were a lot of good and even great comics. But lore/mythology/universe wise, they fucking destroyed the DCU and some people defended it because they didn't know any better.

>>88728457
Do you think the DCU history is any better with all these retcons that make no sense?

If the New 52 DCU was a mess, what is something that incorporates the New 52 at the same time that negates it?

You have Superman from another timeline fucking around. You have 3 Jokers. You have Wonder Woman's last 10 years retconned...

Oh, but Wally is back! Somehow!

>>88728439

>Superman took some time to pick it up, but he was already fine before the DCYou.

Eh... no. Nu52 Superman had some good to OK runs, but overall he was a mess. When the cross-overs started to happen it was as if the editors were forcing a new extreme makeover just for the sake of it. Everybody know have mind-powers, he's now Doomsday, he now has a beard, he now lost his powers and secret identity, he's now dying and so on.

>>88728512

>You have Wonder Woman's last 10 years retconned...

Wonder Woman's past is always changing. This is her thing now. She's owning it up.

>>88728439
The thing is that it was basically the same proportion of good to bad to shitty books as pre-Flashpoint except in a worse overall setting.

>>88728457
I feel like it didn't really destroy the DCU because I was already of the mind that it was just the personal histories that got tweaked but from multiversal perspective everything still happened (and the franchises that didn't get rebooted like Batman, GL, LoSH, etc and stories like Multiversity pretty much convinced me I was right anyway). It was easily inferior but not irreparable. Rebirth is just making it more apparent for the normie readers who wanted to pretend like it was a "true" reboot.

>>88728457
>fucking destroyed the DCU
They're just stories. Did they literally go to your homes and physically destroy your copies of the old stories so that you could never read or enjoy them again?

Maybe people who defend the Nu52 are just people who wanted to see something built from the ground up again with new concepts, and weren't fucking turbo-autists about whether or not their old back issues were canon anymore.

>>88728531
It's not any different from pre flashpoint Superman. Superman has been a fucking mess since the mid 90s.

>>88728556
Wrong. Wonder Woman always gets reformulated at each new team, with a new cast, new villains, etc, but she never had her past changed by RETCONS at least since Crisis (not reboots, and New 52 was the only one since then)

>>88728457
There's nothing wrong with starting over again and building a new mythology.

The idea of n52 wasn't bad at all, the editors were the ones who screwed over by not making clear to the writers what the plan was.

>>88728609

Perez' reboot, Byrne's time-travel, JMS' reboot, Azz's reboot... it's a thing.

>>88728531
>overall he was a mess
I think I actually liked this. Each run had such a different feel to it. Continuity is bullshit, anyway. All comics should just take place in a floating timeline, with no strong connection between what's happening in one book to another unless it's truly beneficial to the story.

>>88728610
Yep.

But it's also hard to use legacy characters if you're starting over. Which is what mostly went wrong in The New 52.

>"How did Batman have all those Robins?" >"Did the Titans exist before with another formation?"
>"What happened to Wally and Donna?"

>>88728654
>Reboot
>Byrne's time travel with Hippolyta didn't change anything substantial in Diana's past
>JMS was reverted back to normal at the end

>>88728657

Yeah, but most of his stories was mediocre to bad. That's the problem. Then when the cross-overs started even good writers like Greg Pak had to pretty much diffuse the suckness out of Scott Lobdell's plots.

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Y'all a bunch of gaylords.

Young Animal, New Super-Man, Gotham Academy and The Flintstones is all that's worth reading. Get a life losers, stop reading bland turds!!

>>88728661
Isn't the first time Batman's continuity was kept intact for a reboot.

>>88728704

Byrne changed WW mythology a lot and JMS finished giving way to Azz's. run.

>>88727908
>killing

>>88728734
>New Superman
>Worth reading
How much do you get paid?

>>88728745
Byrne added stuff, he didn't change anything substantial IN DIANA'S PAST other than the fact that Hippolyta was Wonder Woman in the past due to time travel shenanigans, which is always going to happen with time travel stories

He did change her supporting cast, her city, her villains, etc... but I don't remember him retconning what happened in Perez' and Messner-Loebs' run.

>>88728769
Fuck you buddy, New Superman is awesome.

>>88728594
>just people who wanted to see something built from the ground up again with new concepts

This is not what the new 52 was though, and that's the main problem of it. There was basically no world building, just hit the ground running and keep going. The idea that there was in-universe history was mostly presented as a CYA for when mistakes were made. If something got mentioned that was never shown it happened in the 5 year timeskip. Pretty much all the stories could have easily been told pre-Flashpoint.

Probably just a product of the times though. You cannot do like they did after COIE now, there is just too much decompression and not enough time for anything to truly happen. Even Earth One hasn't really done anything to feel like its own world despite years of releases. I did enjoy a lot of the new 52 and this isn't really a comment on Rebirth either (since it's the same continuity just with different overarching edicts), but it was never about building anything or new concepts at all.

>>88728790
It's not a retcon because Hippolyta knew she was out of time, and Diana knew Hippolyta went back in time, so in the timeline it's something that "always happened" but the characters knew that it was due to time travel.

Even Jay Garrick knew, maybe the others in SJA knew too.

>>88728719
>most of his stories was mediocre to bad
I suppose we'll have to disagree. I found the bulk of Action Comics to be great, under Morrison and Pak. John's Superman was fun. Even Lobdell's was just kinda over-the-top action, and not particularly objectionable. Plus Rocafort's art was nice. The crossover shit was the worst thing about Superman's books. Otherwise I certainly enjoyed his books, more often than not.

>>88728734
>>Young Animal, Gotham Academy and The Flintstones is all that's worth reading.
All not part of Rebirth, OP is specifically talking about Rebirth.

I agree that DC has some great comics right now between their YA stuff, the various minis, Hannah Barbera and so on. The main Rebirth line is extremely safe and boring though and that's why some people are disappointed. It was advertised as the best thing since sliced bread, /co/ fell for the marketing machine as always. Now after all these months some people are underwhelmed because it's not as great and game-changing as it was promised to be.

>>88728896

Lobdell was awful and Pak was mediocre as fuck. Specially when the cross-overs happened. Johns was passable and Morrison was good.

Not to absolve Superbro but the crossovers have been an issue for the Superbook line for a while now. Pre-Flashpoint it ruined shit too and it will probably ruin shit in Rebirth as well. Superman editorial has just been poor at balancing things in crossovers unlike the Lantern books and Batbooks. I can't remember the last Superbook crossover that was good. Maybe the very first New Krypton stuff?

>>88728896
Morrison's run was the best modern day Superman run we've had imo. It wasn't famous only because of the not muh sentiment.

>>88729005
I favor Johns' Action over Morrison's due to art, but it's close.

>Literally every run is from ok to great except some hipster shit like Harley Queen or Batgirl
>A-anyone feel l-like Rebirth is not so good?
End your pathetic life, you fucking whiny pleb. We have awesome Superman, Deathstroke, Arrow, Nightwing, Trinity, Aquaman etc. What's the point of this thread? Rebirth is best thing happened to comics in last 5 years.

>>88729042
>What's the point of this thread?

Comparing and contrasting previous eras of DC to the current one

>>88729042
>Literally every run is from ok to great except some hipster shit like Harley Queen or Batgirl
If you truly believe this, I almost feel bad for you. Then again, ignorance in bliss.

>>88728927
>It was advertised as the best thing since sliced bread,
I really don't think it was advertised like that, except by /co/ autists shilling it to the high heavens.

Everyone knew from the start that it was a somewhat cynical and definitely pretty hypocritical change in direction with the only difference quality-wise being in a slightly better editorial handling. And everyone was mostly fine with that because it meant they'd get to see characters they recognize again.

>>88726557
New doesn't equal good retard.

>>88729113
Older eras are always better.
Bring back Atari Force.

>>88726692
Superbrofags are so retarded it hurts. All they do is bring up Morrison like Superbro kept that level of quality after he left. He was shit, stumbling from one pointless crossover to the next. It's obvious he was baby's first Superman for a lot of these losers and that's why they're blind to how fucking terrible he was.

>>88729188
Bronze age best age imo

>>88729226
It's definitely overlooked

>>88729113
Well, old times has a lot of shit. Modern era is best. Ofc, few character has better times, but current DC universe is good for almost every main character.
>>88729141
Name, at least, 3 bad titles which is not leading by female hero.

>>88726866
It is MUCH better than New 52, you'd have to be delusional not to see it.

Rebirth isn't mediocre. New 52 was mediocre. Rebirth is solid, 8/10. It's not trying to rock the boat but it is trying to repair the goodwill lost in the last 5 years by DC editorial.

>>88729261
>current DC universe is good for almost every main character.

even if that was true, there are only like 10 characters with ongoing books

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>>88727058
It is great though. Pic related is the best Supes story in a long time. New 52 Supes was NEVER this good, not even under Morrison.

>>88729226
>comic are big
>big enough to get "weird" titles like Kamandi and Deathlok
In 2016-7, Deathlok would sell in, what, 2k tops?

>>88727329
>New 52 Supes wasn't shit
H'El says hi nostalgiafag.

It's hilarious seeing you retards accuse others of viewing Rebirth with nostalgia goggles when that's the only way you view New 52.

>>88729333
Sadly, that's the only readable issue. The rest is not even half as good or creative as Morrison.

>>88729333
Johns and Busiek did Superdad better than this tbqh, you're delusional

>>88725825
Batman is awesome /co/ is hate.

Do people really not like Detective Comics? Definitely my favorite Rebirth book, even above RHATO.

Then again Cass is my waifu.

>>88728928
There's something called opinion.

What you think it's awful, others think it's good. There's no right or wrong answer to this.

>>88729261
>Name, at least, 3 bad titles which is not leading by female hero.
It doesn't matter what I say because you will simply say "NO U FAGGOT, THEY GREAT!", but;

>Action Comics
>Wonder Woman
>Detective Comics
>New Super-Man
>Justice League
>Green Arrow
>Suicide Squad
>Batman Beyond

And despite your rules that I cannot include any books lead by female characters, pretty much all of them are awful, so whatever.

>>88729299
This is important. A lot of Rebirth's lasting legacy will be in how it handles the smaller franchises. JSA, LoSH, etc that we've been promised in the next wave. Though considering though that Johns is in charge and the fans of those franchises have enjoyed his output before it will probably resemble something they want. But we'll see how it actually turns out. If they never come then people will remain disappointed.

Rebirth right now is primarily making up for the sorry state that most A-listers were in during the last couple of years. Flash, GL, WW are all still rather flawed but improved.

>>88727931
You're retarded. We'd never have gotten goatee commie Oliver and Dinah together without Johns. Arthur and Mera wouldn't be getting married. Wally wouldn't be back. Rebirth was Johns giving the finger to the shitty New 52 editorial and bring back the GOOD versions of the character.

Darkseid War was terrible though.

>>88729463
Nice tie-ins, though.

>>88728439
>Superman took some time to pick it up, but he was already fine before the DCYou.
>Endless crossovers
>Terrible relationship with WW
These are the people complaining about Rebirth people. They think putrid shit is good because it was baby's first comic for them.

>>88729214
And yet, the story could have been the absolute same thing, but tell fans like you that it was SUPERDAD instead, and you would be eating it all up.

>>88728981
Literally this. Superman has been shit since decades(save for a few readable runs here and there), but people end up eating it up because they grew up with the mediocre pile of shit.

>>88729503
Would they also support Superdad/Diana?

>>88729333
If I see this page posted one more fucking time. This shit is almost cringe-worthy.

>>88728657
Too bad the stories were shit and only served to make him more and more unrecognizable.

>>88729395
Oh poor Chris. I'll never forget you.

>>88729500
The relationship with WW was ignored in Superman's solos, which you would have known if you read any of them. Crossovers are a legit concern though.

>>88729505
I'm just going to blame the triangle years and DC chasing that trend even though modern readers don't enjoy it.

>>88729387
>Channeling Kryptonian ghosts
>Dinosaur Island
>Using MORRISON'S fucking team in Multiplicity
>Not fucking great
Yeah you have shit taste thanks for sharing but it's time to stop embarrassing yourself. Go masterbate to such magnificent Superman crossovers as H'El on Earth.

>>88729536
Maybe to idiots who need to have it spoonfed to him on every page that SUPERMAN IS GREAT AND A DAD AND HE LOVES EVERYONE AND NEVER KILLS, FUN, FUN with self-indulgent, cringe-worthy writing like this >>88729333

>>88725825
>Batman
it is better than the new 52 run
>Wonder Woman
it is worse than the initial new 52 run, but better than the run immediately preceding it
>Action Comics
it is worse than the initial new 52 run, and about the same as the run immediately preceding it (however it has more fanservice)
>Detective Comics
it is better than the new 52 run
>Justice League
it is about the same as the new 52 run

very few things actually went down in quality and they have event hype behind them

>>88729395
Johns Superman is best Superman. (at main Earth, at least). But current Superman is pretty close.
>>88729453
>absolute shit taste confirmed
Even worst books from your list are, at least, meh, not bad.
>>88729410
Well, Detective Comics were ok with few awesome moments, but last issue is disgusting.

>>88729503
What's the point of even having Superbro if you just make him Superdad? There is no point. Better for him to be dead so we can just get straight to the good stories.

>>88729630
>so we can just get straight to the good stories.
13 issues in and I'm still waiting on that.

>>88729532

Fuck no. I had my fill of those horrible tease back in the 90's.

>>88729581
>Someone doesn't like Tomasi's mediocre run
>Better accuse them of liking post flashpoint Superman
You need to read more comics if you find those remotely creative. You look like someone who thinks DBZ is creative

>>88729583
>Self-indulgent cringeworthy
Only thing here that meets that requirement is your post.

Or are we pretending Superbro didn't literally go around saying
>There's always another way!
Retarded Superdouchefags need to go back to Marvel.

>>88728734
Gotham Academy has been really mediocre since the First Semester ended, and I loved the first semester.

>>88729549

>The relationship with WW was ignored in Superman's solos

Not during crossovers.

>>88729581
Morrison didn't write He'El thing or whatever it is, dumbass.

>>88725825
I feel like Nu52 got off to a better start, but turned to shit very quickly. With Rebirth I think I'm going to judge it at the end of 2017

>>88729658
I was waiting for five years with Superbro and it never came. >>88729670
Not an arguement.

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>>88729696
Did I say he did you fucking retard?

>>88729592

>Batman
>it is better than the new 52 run

Fuck no. Snyder's Court of Owls was pure hype compared to King's whatever the fuck.

>>88729592
>Batman
>it is better than the new 52 run

I really hate to say it, but King is starting to look worse than Snyder. At least Snyder had a good first arc, King has been hopping between ok and wtf are you doing.

>>88729688
The only time I can remember in a crossover where it wasn't ignored was Doomed and in that story overall Clark and Lois were more romantic than him and WW anyway.

>>88729670
Superbro wishes he could've been as creative as DBZ. It really did with such gems as
>You can bench press the entire planet!

>>88729740
>>88729745
These. This.

>>88729674

>Or are we pretending Superbro didn't literally go around saying
>There's always another way!

Please tell me you're not referencing Scott Lobdell's Return to Krypton cross-over where Superbro trapped H'Ell into an endless cycle of rebirth, torment and death because that was more morally right than just fucking putting the guy down.

>>88729731
Then why would bring it up in a conversation about Morrison's run?

>>88729769
Is it finally ok to stop pretending Snyder was bad? He was good. King seems to be writing for the omnibus and I'm not sure if he'll be able to keep people on board for that long.

>>88729745
Batman is generally a poor fit for King and the only real reason to want him to stay on is so that his next project gets the Batfag bump.

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>mfw I like both Superbro and Superdad and am actually pretty hyped they're teaming up
>mfw I understand that Superman during the New 52 sucked and had Action Comics as the better title
>mfw I understand Action Comics is sucking during Rebirth and has Superman as the better title

Can't we all just get along?

>>88729749

It still sucked because of all the relationship drama and Wondy and Lois being two passive aggressive bitches.

>>88729811
We weren't discussing JUST Morrison you retard or at least I wasn't. I was discussing Post-FP vs Rebirth Supes.

>>88729804
I'm not that guy but Pak had him saying it a lot. I skipped most of Lobdell because I'm not retarded.

>>88729815
Snyder had a good first arc + Black mirror, but Endgame/DotF were terrible and Superheavy was only meh.

Really sucks that the books being pushed the most at the moment (Batman, JL, Suicide Squad) are all crap. JLvsSS actually looked pretty promising to me until the JL spent an entire issue jobbing. Hopefully it'll recover, but my hopes aren't too high. Honestly these events would be much better if they spent more time building up.

>>88729804
It's good someone remembers it. The way Superbrofags whine you'd think Morrison wrote all the Superbro stories.

>>88729759
>Literally moving the goalpost
Why don't you just admit that Morrison's run was more creative rather than bringing up other writers?

This seems like a good place to ask:
How the fuck did DC lure JrJr away from Marvel? He was literally a second generation employee.
There's gotta be a story there.

>>88729832
Pick a side already, skubfag.

>>88729886
>until the JL spent an entire issue jobbing

What the Hell did you expect to happen?

>>88729832
This is generally how I feel, but I'm salty enough at DC editorial jerking me around with both iterations that I can't even get hyped for future shit anymore. I'm so emotionally drained.

>>88729815

King's run go from camp to depressing to weird all the fucking time. Also, the fact that everyone and their mother are suicidal fucks is really odd. It's like we're back in the 90's and everybody is into The Cure again.

>>88729868
>>88729868
>New 52 Supes was NEVER this good, not even under Morrison.
Yeah, never discussed Morrison.

>>88729898
Reminds me of Spockfags and Peterfags. Superbrofags, Spockfags, and Peterfags, the Holy Trinity of cancer.

>>88729886
At least Harley didn't lol!toonforce Diana.

>>88729832
Same shit, mate. I liked Superbro relationship with Bruce and the rest of the league, Nightwing etc. (except WW ofc). Superbro was good Superman, but stucked in bad stories. I hope him and new52 Lois will return as pre-new52 Earth-2 counterparts.

>>88729900
Why is it Superbrofags are only able to point to Morrison as an example of Superbro's supposed quality? Could it be that was because that was the only time Superbro was good and that's why they get so butthurt when you point that out? I think so.

>>88729815
It was largely agreed he was good early on. Court of Owls was hype, one of my favorite Batman stories, for sure. The idea that Batman thinks he owns Gotham when he doesn't was a very exciting thing to explore. Death of the Family happened too soon in the run, but it was still exciting. Snyder knows how to write a page turner, for sure. Zero Year was technically good, but dragged on for WAY too long. Endgame had little steam left after he already blew his load on DotF. Superheavy, had a great premise, and I really was excited for it, but for some reason it just wasn't any good. Might be worth reading again in one sitting to see if it gels more.

>>88729703
Nu52 was a mess from the start. Johns' opening JL arc was good contestant for the worst comic of the year, and that's what they kicked the whole thing off with.

>>88729930
If you weren't a complete retard you'd realize that's talking about ALL of the Superbro run. You'd also notice that I clarified that while I was including Morrison, I wasn't talking about just him.

But I realize Superbrofags aren't known for their reading skills.

>>88729974
Morrison, Pak, Johns, and Yang before he got roped into doing crossover issues you idiot. Even Taylor's brief BM/SM was pretty solid despite being 1 arc.

>>88729974
>Moving the goalpost again
I never claimed to be a Superbrofag, dumbass. I didn't read anything except for Morrison and Johns, because I'm not a characterfag. You're the only idiot who keeps bringing it up to prove your point about how Tomasi is not a B grade writer and the current run is actually readable.

Rebirt is basically improved new52, right? It looks like it going to be combination of best pre-new52 and new52 parts. Ofc, few things will be worse, but everything looks really promising. Most of current titles are awesome, good and ok. There were actuallly better era to DC?

>>88729832

Superbro had a lot of wasted potential.

It's like... okay, Morrison wanted to do a modern take on golden age social crusader Superman for a few issues before transitioning to the silver/bronze age weird sci-fi hero Superman, but all the other writers understood from it was "Ok, so you're saying Superman is now younger, edgier and louder?" and that's what pretty much Johns gave to us in his JL title. Then on the other side was Perez doing... what was Perez doing? I don't think even he knew. It was just Superman being a sadsack of shit and having weird creatures using his body.

Then you had Batman/Superman with Greg Pak were the main team was that Superman and Batman were younger and angry because they both lost their parents. Seriously, he always reminded us via the whole Prime Earth vs Earth 2 thing that the main versions were younger and out of control in comparison to the ones from Earth 2. Oh, and Superman/Wonder Woman where you had both Superman and Wonder Woman constantly nagging about each other.

Basically, you had Morrison with some cool ideas that were immediately twisted by other writers and no one knew where to take Superbro. Is he sweet and cool like a older brother? Is he young and angry like a teen? Is he cocky and killing people because reasons? Also, why was he always murdering people because his powers would be hijacked? What's up with that?

>>88730022
>New 52 Supes was NEVER this good, not even under Morrison.
Why even make a point if you keep moving away from it? Tell me how Tomasi's run is remotely as creative as Morrison's?

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>>88729745
>>88729749
>>88729769
Snyder's Batman was a shit comic, court of owls was a good plotline and Capullo's art was certainly good, but these things did not salvage his run at all as a whole. Even in Court of Owls you had text walls all over the place and terrible pages where Capullo had to work around Snyder's inept scripts.

King's Batman is a much better comic, he gets amazing work out of his artists and both of his main arcs have had better plots than almost anything Snyder did. His dialogue is much better than Snyder's in general too.

>>88729952

Nu52 Lois was a fucking cunt and Nu52 was only really friends with Batman (i couldn't see him and Wonder Woman as friends, they were passive aggressive with each other all the time)..

>>88730097
>There were actuallly better era to DC?
Did you just start reading DC in the past 5 years? Also thinking that this combines the best elements of pre and post flashpoint is drinking way too much of the kool-aid

>>88730084
>Pak
Mediocre
>Johns
This wasn't even a run he was there for like one story arc, and he was clearly turning Superbro into Superdad
>Yang
Truth sucked but I blame editorially for that since New Super-Man is fantastic
>Morrison
Good but that was 5 years ago and the title was never that good quality wise again

>>88730084
Oh wow, I forgot about Batman/Superman. That had some really good arcs in it. The one-shot with The Atom was pretty fun.

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>All these people discussing who the real Superman is
Both Superdad and Superbro have been consistently mediocre. There can only be one real Superman.

>>88730084
>Even Taylor's brief BM/SM was pretty solid despite being 1 arc.

What sticks out to me about that one is that I liked how that artist drew Superbro's suit (which I'll probably never be a fan of due to aspects like the collar but it looked good).

>>88730160
>and he was clearly turning Superbro into Superdad

I think you're kind of pointing out your own bias here. Writing Superman like Superman to you is turning Superbro into something he's not instead of what it actually is. That's insane.

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>>88730087
>Hurr durr you were talking about just Morrison
>No I was talking about the whole run but including Morrison because his was the best part
>MOVING THE GOALPOSTS
Fuck off retard.

>>88730120
Pak definitely went with the younger more brash inexperienced route as seen in his Zero Year issues and yes his initial Batman/Superman arc, but those were in his earlier years and was moved away from in his latter appearances where he's more brotherly like shown when he sorta took in that weird shape shifting alien kid and especially in the start of the Depowered Superbro storyline.

>>88730192
you're not wrong

>>88730160
> He didn't like John Cena Superman fighting Wrestling Gods and being poor

>>88730200
>The rest is not even half as good or creative as Morrison
Tell me where I mention anything except Morrison's run in my reply?

>>88730153
I've read almost every good staff which were released after CoIE.Except Johns JSA run and Morrison's Animal man. To me, 1999-2009 is best. Tons of great stories and events. Lots of garbage, but there are always a lots of it though.

>>88730122
Morrison's run, for all it's quality was intended by its own admission as a reexploration of Golden Age Supes. It's not "new" it's just a return to Supes earliest iteration.

Making the mainline canon Supes biological son an important focus of the current run is arguably more inventive than Morrison, because it hasn't happen before. Jon does not appear to be going away anytime soon, which was not the case with adoptive sons like Chris.

>>88730285
>because it hasn't happen before.
It already did, Chris Kent you idiot.

>>88730255
Like I said he got screwed editorially. He had good story ideas and New Supes proves he's a good writer, but I didn't like Truth.

>>88730222

Pak Superbro only started to act as the cool older bro during DCYou.

Even in the cross-over with Worlds Finest (the book with Power Girl and Huntress) you had Huntress constantly saying that the main Superman was sure of himself and reckless and that the main Batman was heartless and a control freak.

>>88730285
>Making the mainline canon Supes biological son an important focus of the current run is arguably more inventive
It's literally a remake of Batman & Robin but with the supes line.

>>88730285
Morrison's run was not golden age. The first arc was golden age but the run as a whole went through EVERY era. That you have such a large misconception suggests either you didn't read past the first arc or you don't know a lot about Superman and just think everything pre-Byrne is golden age.

>>88730305
>which was not the case with adoptive sons like Chris
Try reading the whole thing you fucking idiot. Chris was an adoptive son who got dropped and forgotten.

>>88730330
Still more inventive than rehashing previous eras of Supes.

so far of the 30 or so books i've checked out, i've dropped trinity, blue beetle, supergirl, and birds of prey. so overall i'm having a pretty good time of it. some of the stuff im following is also miniseries so i'll be down to like 20ish books here soon

>>88730333
It's debatable whether he was truly dropped. There weren't a lot of issues he wasn't in after his introduction. Maybe a year after Last Son ended then a couple of months between the end of New Krypton and Flashpoint. The reboot is what got rid of him for good (and even then he was in Multiversity).

>>88730380
But Trinity is great. Agreed with other ones though.

>>88730331
>Dead parents
>More cocky and arrogant Supes
>Gets his start beating criminals
Golden Age Supes didn't just fight criminals. The fact that you think Supes fighting aliens, or Braniac, or that because an imp caused the Kents deaths makes it any less obvious which era Morrison took from the most makes you the one who needs to read more, not me.

>>88730416
first two issues were solid then manapul stopped doing the art and the writing got way more expositiony so I got bored by the latest issue. If it came out sparingly so manapul could do every issue, I would follow it

>>88730429
Golden age Superman was only for the first arc of Morrison's run. Kents had been dead for fifty years in Superman canon, rather than just the golden age.

>>88730429
You're proving that you're misunderstanding Morirson's run. Clark's early hero life did mirror golden age stuff but that was not the majority of the run at all. You have only pointed to the origin and stuff in the first arc as evidence and no one denies that those were golden age references, but what about the other 13 issues?

>>88730192
The only objectively correct answer in this thread.

>>88730323
But Earth2 Huntress is shit. Her opinions on Batman and Superman boiled down to
>NotMuh

>>88725825
i don't even know what it is but i'm curious as to know what is going on with supes because I love him. his new52 died or something is all i know

>>88730494

The Kents while dead in the Superman stories were very much alive in the Super-Baby and Superboy stories. This myth that the Kents were dead and gone for good during the golden and silver age is bullshit.

>>88730685
>but i'm curious as to know what is going on with supes because I love him

I would suggest you don't bother right now. It's mostly convoluted half-story shit that won't be resolved for a while.

Unless you enjoy paranoid and afraid Superman who hasn't had years of adventures with everyone.

So is the new52 universe just gone? DC tried to make everything less confusing for casual readers like me but somehow made it even more confusing

>>88725825
>What's actually good in Rebirth?
RHATO, New Super-Man, Deathstroke, and I personally like Aquaman and Green Arrow.
You're right that there's a lot of bland shit in there. Generally, Rebirth is kind of... nothing special. There's very little attempt at experimentation or thinking outside the box; most of it's "good but standard". It's more a baseline for good comics than it is a new height.

>>88730819
Nothing is gone and originally DC only tricked you into thinking they were making anything less confusing.

So, did fucking ANYTHING happen yet with Dr. Manhattan or Batman finding the button?

>>88730836
That was kind of the point though. As bitter a pill for people like you as it might be here's the truth: Experimental stuff doesn't sell, so it requires the standard stuff like Batman and Superman to sell well to support it. Rebirth got the standard stuff back to "normal" sales and improved goodwill. It was a success.

>>88730894
Well, yes. I'm aware of all that. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

this is based on what i've read up to this point

>great-tier
deathstroke
green arrow
all-star batman
doom patrol
six-pack and dogwelder

good-tier:
midnighter and apollo
nightwing
superman
gotham academy
Cave Carson
Shade the Changing Girl

Average-tier
Wonder Woman
blue beetle
scooby apocalypse
future quest
Teen titans
batman
detective comics

bad-tier:
titans
the flash
superwoman
supergirl
suicide squad
aquaman

>>88730851
Superman: Reborn and Summer Batman event are going to start unraveling that mystery. This was said to be a two year event.

>>88730924
Thanks dude, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

>>88730921
>doom patrol
>six-pack and dogwelder
>midnighter and apollo
>gotham academy
>Cave Carson
>Shade the Changing Girl
>scooby apocalypse
>future quest
Not Rebirth.
Also,
>no Flintstones

>>88730728
They died before he became Superman, so I don't see what that has to do with anything?

>>88730851
Pretty sure Batman finding the button was not supposed to mean anything in particular. It just shot into the cave with Wally.

I believe Barry did go to him after he and Wally talked and generally Barry, Bruce, Wally and maybe the Titans will be working on shit, but nothing has happened.

>>88730919
You better learn to deal with it then. Or why even bring it up? It's not changing.

If you want innovative or experimental shit you look at Big Two side stuff or indies. Don't go expecting that shit in the main line unless it's a big name known for it like Morrison or Hickman.

>>88730941

Because you had both grown-up Superman stories and young Superboy stories being published at the same time.

>>88730979
What's the point of this entire thread, then? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

>>88730921
I would move Gotham Academy down a tier, this second volume is not as good as the first in neither art (Archer from Kerschl is a huge downgrade) nor storytelling (Fletcher doing the scripting instead of Cloonan is also a downgrade, though I do understand that she's still involved at least at the plotting level).

>>88730996
What's that got to do with whether Morrison's run was golden age or not?

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>>88730758
>Unless you enjoy paranoid and afraid Superman who hasn't had years of adventures with everyone.
Not muh Supes. What is this

If there's one thing interesting about Rebirth is other than Superman, there's a clear competition between which title people think is the best Rebirth title. Good or bad, the arguments are pretty fun to read.

>>88731099

I was responding to an anon that said the Kents were dead for most of the pre-CoIE. While technically correct, the Kents still showed up in the Superboy stories that kept being published.

>>88731136
Current Superman was essentially transported from pre-Flashpoint's timeline to the current one. He and Lois have been in hiding for years and raising their son while the main timeline Superman and JL were doing shit. Part of the reason for not acting is because he didn't want to fuck up the timeline too much since it was familiar but different. Then New 52 Superman died so the other Superman decided to start helping them, but he doesn't know anyone or anything. That's what the books are about now, him meeting other heroes and gaining their trust and shit.

Some of the stuff is ok like the Superman ongoing, but none of it is truly comfortable and you can tell it's just kind of filler shit until they really give us a proper status quo.

>>88730921
>Aquaman
>Titans
>The Flash
>Bad

>Blue Beetle not being Bad
>Wonder Woman not being Bad
>Green Arrow that high
>Batman and Det's positions

Blue Beetle is just readable if you're a Giffen fag, if you're not. Most elements are gonna go past your head. Wonder Woman has spend 12 issues faffing about, no way is it even Average. Green Arrow is Great only when they get Dick Girl Artist Otto Schmidt on it. Flash had a slow start with God Speed but it's quickly picking back up. Aquaman is pretty great with tons of long term plans being set up by Abnett and Black Manta's sheer determination to just fuck with Aquaman is always good.

>>88726304
nah ur wrong

>>88725825
I feel the same. DCYou had much lower lows but also some pretty great highs. Rebirth has less bad books but their "good" books are mostly just okay. I'm reading them and liking them all right but I'm not terribly excited about anything coming out of their main line. Most of it is just really standard, I guess.

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Reminder that the Dark books were the shit at the beggining and now Rebirth only has 1 horror book and it's crap (Hellblazer)

>>88731399
Deadman's mini or whatever it is should probably count

>>88731263
Abnett used to be a good writer back in the marvel cosmic days but damn titans is fucking boring issue to issue and this arc hasn't ended when it should've been two issues shorter. kadabra basically keeps repeating himself issue after issue

the political intrigue in aquaman would be nice if it moved anywhere, not to mention the book has atrocious art

>>88726127
and it worked because they put the imaginary missing years and its the same universe bs out there to hook the old fans so now they think it will all go back to the way it was eventually forgetting that the JL is not changing and neither is any other character

>>88728661
COIE is the industry standard giant super start over and that was specifically when Wally West took over. Nightwing continued on after COIE. So no, not really.

>>88730951
Yeah they really pulled off of the momentum they had with Rebirth. We're 9 months in and we literally just got our first fucking teaser about Manhattan since it all started. Talk about letting interest wane.

Not to mention the big showy return of Wally West was fucking sequestered in an unadvertised, uninspiring team book. Imagine if Superman had been gone for six fucking years and when they brought him back he only showed up in LOSH or something for a full year. That's basically where Wally is aside from a singular cameo in Flash.

>>88731884
titans really needed to be a double-shipper from the start. the book killed its own momentum with a six-issue arc that's gone nowhere

>>88731884
>Imagine if Superman had been gone for six fucking years and when they brought him back he only showed up in LOSH or something for a full year.

See that would be great to me but I'm a LoSHfag

Titans should have just been a Wally solo though. That's basically what it is at this point anyway but having to use up space making us pretend to care about the other characters.

>>88731970
Right, see, it wouldn't be bad for Superman to show up in LOSH. He's got tons of ties to them, it makes sense, that's great. But if he was ONLY in it for a year and not showing up in Superman or Action Comics or Justice League, that'd be a really weird situation and letdown.

Wally should've gotten his own solo if they were serious about his return. As it is, it looks like a slapdash decision they made at the last second and didn't have a real plan for, or maybe bringing back Wally wasn't originally supposed to be a big deal (like a finale to the mediocre Titans Hunt).

You don't make this super huge event comic about Wally coming home only for him to literally be shoved into the same shitty pigeonhole people hated back in 2010 when they more or less killed his character.

>>88731884
>9 months

Isn't it 6-7 months?

>>88732052
It was definitely supposed to happen in Titans Hunt. Had to be a miscommunication somewhere where they had already announced Titans Hunt by the time Johns had figured out how he wanted to do the one shot.

>>88732071
Since Rebirth launched, sure, but they were advertising and announcing it during March at Wondercon. They used those two months to lead into Rebirth and it might as well have been a Rebirth preface.

>>88732130
I'm guessing it was like 2 or 3 issues into Titans Hunt where they decided to snatch Wally's return and make it the focus of Rebirth. I'm not sure anyone here remembers but the first couple of issues of Titans Hunt had Abnett make a BUNCH of very obvious "Flash" references they clearly implied Wally's return.

But partway through he just stopped cold and Titans Hunt ended 4 issues early (8 instead of 12) in time for Rebirth, with a little teaser at the end.

Wally coming back was probably originally just for him to be in Titans again and it wasn't going to be a big deal. Johns made it a bigger deal, but then fucked off to do movies so they just kept going with the plan of Wally being in Titans because he's not a big deal.

It's a big mixed message because Johns didn't demand or do anything to carry on with the Wally return story and lobbed it into Abnett's competent if mediocre hands.

>>88732071
>>88732148
We also have solicits through next March though the Superman stuff is finally ramping up at least.

>>88732071
Solicits are 3 months ahead. Admittedly they can be intentionally misleading (like the original Titans ones to hide Wally) but we always see important stuff listed. Wally's still just showing up in Titans a full year in.

>>88732359
wally appeared in rebirth #1. that was may. we only have solicits till march.

>>88732463
I originally said 9 months. There's only two months between the march solicits and the may anniversary.

Besides, if Wally was getting a new book they'd be announcing the team ahead of the solicits. A year will have come and gone and the big hero of Rebirth will still be wallowing away in a third rate team book with bad art and mediocre writing. Triumphant return alright.

I wonder if anything of actual substance with the Manhattan plot will have happened by May.

>>88732544
I wouldn't be surprised if there's just a one-shot every May by Johns following up on that.

>>88732566
Not really my point. If it takes a year to do any real follow up then that's really, really stupid. It's also stupid that they started off their relaunch with this big emotional Wally West return and he's shown up in 8 comics since then. Fucking Deathstroke is more prevalent than Wally.

>>88732656
Yeah I was mostly replying to your idea that the Manhattan stuff won't progress until May. Like I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is for that specifically to happen. They said from the start it would be two years and there wasn't a weekly book or anything announced where we should expect ongoing buildup.

>>88725825
>selling like hotcakes

No.

Rebirth began as a "sale or return" deal for retailers, where unsold copies could be returned to the publisher (in fact, this isn't what happens - they get sold on by the publisher either for pulping or to outlet retailers who don't bother with cover prices and sell by bulk, but the original retailer doesn't have to deal with them at all, so they're "returned").

SoR is a good deal for certain kinds of retailers - like supermarkets or newsstands - because they have a high volume of consumers who come specifically to browse, so they don't want things that don't sell well to be hanging around, and it's a good deal for publishers to sell through those outlets because although there's typically a lot of unsold issues (50% is a good high sales figure), they're still getting back money for the unsold copies via pulp mills or whatever, even if they aren't making cover price; and higher consumer foot traffic means higher sales.

LCS aren't like supermarkets; they have particular consumers who like to order in advance and browse only within their interests. They don't go there to see comics and maybe come home with a Cosmo or Home & Garden. LCS in turn deal with this by only stocking specialist items, which keeps away casual consumers who might otherwise drop in for non-comics items. It doesn't matter to an LCS, because they know pretty well what they're going to sell and, because they get discounts for ordering high from comics publishers, they can get rare variants, paying for the over-order by selling on the variant after getting it signed at a con. It's a weird little system, but it works, after a fashion.

It just doesn't work with SoR, which is for publishers with a far lower number of monthly titles (DC typically has 80 releases in a month) and a far higher audience. Destination outlets like LCS were never going to attract casuals; SoR was always going to be abused because it still gave variants but at no cost.

>>88725825
>>88732957
tl;dr

It attracted initial high sales because retailers didn't have to pay for unsold and unsellable comics (since no readers exist to pay for them - the US comics market is probably fewer than 1 million individuals) and it was a relaunch with lots of variants. It may even have sold well from LCS initially as many cover prices were dropped as an incentive to new readers - but those are going back up, all the titles are going back to direct-order only, and DC's sales are tanking again because they no longer have the screen of SoR orders (which Diamond reports as sales because Diamond is a direct-only distributor with no experience of SoR) to cover the underlying problem. They never actually got paid for those extra "sales" because they didn't really exist, even if comics were printed and shipped.

tl;dr tl;dr

No. DC's real sales never actually increased, they just screwed around pretending for a few months. Someone should be fired for this.

>>88729583
You look so patethic anon.

DCEU tier patethic.

>>88732981
If this is true and you aren't just a Marvel shill bullshitting us (and I believe it may very well be true), the higher ups were just hoping the generated media interest would help sales. I don't think it actually hurt them (and it may ver well have helped them a little), so no one would be fired.

>>88732981
That doesn't explain early reprints.

It had big sales at the start, just like the New 52 or any Marvel relaunch. It tapered off as expected.

>>88732981
>No. DC's real sales never actually increased, they just screwed around pretending for a few months. Someone should be fired for this.

This is clearly not true. We know that Superbooks had tanked to 25-30k so even if the 70k numbers weren't real a relaunch would still boost them to like 40k or so which is better than the 15k selling fringe books that got replaced. DC definitely increased their sales based on double shipping alone. Your estimation fails basic logic.

>>88732916
Well if that was the plan then it was a stupid one. You don't drop a bombshell then wait a year to actually set off the bomb.

Same thing with Wally. This was the best chance ever to capitalize on a big event to create a new title that could sell and instead they threw him into a shitty book they don't even want to advertise, probably because they know it's shitty. Meanwhile Teen Titans ads are in every comic you buy.

>>88733152
Part of the problem is that they put Titans in the original launch when they couldn't capitalize off the Wally hype because fake solicits/covers had to be put out as not to spoil the surprise.

Titans should have been delayed until Aug/Sept and then double shipped.

>>88732148
But the whole Manhattan thing was only revealed when it was launched

>>88733066
He's bullshitting you.

>>88730921
Stick Wonder Woman in bad-tier. It's been a YEAR and NOTHING'S HAPPENED. Fuck you, Rucka.

>>88733101
>>88733069
>>88733066
He's the same idiot who keeps pushing his dumb claim and pretends that DC has never offered returnability before.

>>88733199
They should've just started a Wally title a couple of months late instead of turning Titans into a shitty Wally title. This Linda shit shouldn't be eclipsing all the other members. It's also the only book we get to see Donna, Roy, and Garth in. They might be less popular than Wally but it's stupid that we're this far in and it's still just a bad Wally comic.

>>88733276
And we know Diamond already decreases the reported numbers due to returnability and the end of the year numbers usual align with that 10% decrease or whatever anyway.

Holy shit just read CW2, and I have to say if Rebirth is "underwhelming" than I prefer to be underwhelmed. What the fuck is going on over at Marvel? At least DC seems to have a clear plan and an end goal they're working towards.

Or if their going to be doing any actual follow-up to the Manhattan plot at all! I honestly feel like it's only going to end in an extremely anti-climactic conclusion or just fucking drop it in general!

>>88733276
He's a retarded Marvelfag who has just completely lost his mind after how shit Marvel has become.

>>88733365
DC clearly doesn't actually know what they're doing with this plot. They never do. There'll probably be a couple sad deaths that are good pages to repost but drowned out in an otherwise tone deaf story.

I mean JL vs SS is the "next big step" in Rebirth and it's as trashy as CW.

>>88733368
>I'm a retard and using exclamation points makes me feel smart!
Hey kid, they're clearly building up to it. I realize this isn't like your Bendis events you love so much, but most people prefer a steady build up to being dropped into an event immediately.

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>>88733409
>This is what Marvelfags actually believe
No books have to waste time running damage control for JLvSS. We haven't gotten hit with months of delays. Nice try Mouseketeer.

>>88733429
A steady buildup implies any buildup. The most we've gotten is a stupid shitty tease 7 months in at the end of a shitty third rate team book.

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>>88733409
>Superman: Reborn is dealing with Oz and Tim in March
>Multiplicity is following Morrison
>Flash and Bats are teaming up about the button in March
>Summer Bat-event focused on Watchmen
>B-but t-they're just like Marvel! T-t-they don't know what they're doing!!!

>>88733429
Hate Bendis as much as you do. Not a Marvel shill, but I do believe the ending will be very dissapointing.

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>>88733505
>Doomsday getting captured by Oz
>Tim getting captured by Oz
>Tec literally had Oz show up in today's issue
Hey retard why don't you read some comics?

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strongly disagree

There's a ton of quality books. Justice League is the only really disappointing book you really named. And Blue Beetle but that's because I'm a Jaimefag with too high expectations.

Green Arrow and Aquaman are only bland now if you aren't reading them, both are really good. Superman IS great right now and so are both GL books and Nightwing along with Titans.

You legitimately sound like a shill right now. Pic related, cow is me brush is Rebirth desu

>>88733545
But it won't derail anything. THAT is the difference right there. It could be shit but it's self-contained shit. Unlike CW2 derailing
>Ultimates
>Ms. Marvel
The only good books Marvel is putting out.

>>88733368
It's pretty obvious where it's going anyway. Manhattan didn't intend on fucking up their world and/or was being misled by some outside force. Either way they'll hug it out and if there's a real bad guy they'll fight him.

>>88725825
t. Disney shill.

Here's your (You)

>>88733457
Yes, DC does a better job of ignoring how bad JLvsSS is but the fact that DC's periphery titles aren't as bad is not my point. They're both really bad at big events.

>>88733523
Ah yes, all that buildup they've done is stuff that's happening in the future. If "slow build up" means "literally nothing for 10 months" then you're an idiot. They just didn't actually have anything planned. Rebirth was a spur of the moment sales grab and they couldn't actually fit any storybuilding of the event in the past 8 months because...they didn't have anything.

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>>88733749
>NO THEY'RE BOTH BAD FUCK YOU DCHAD
Ok kiddo time for your meds.

>>88733558
Oz doing shit that we don't know the purpose is doesn't build up anything. Sure, we know it will have something to do with Rebirth but that's not storytelling. That's foreshadowing to something that will eventually be storytelling.

A planned 2 year wait for payoff is a shitty, shitty idea. It necessitates months of jackshit like we've just been through.

>>88730921
Aquaman Titans and Flash are too low

>>88726130
One thing you need to realize about Disney fans is that they are programmed to do nothing but hate. Marvel books are generally about how awesome murder is and how killing people you don't like is good, and their books are purposefully terrible to enrage their readers.

No Marvel fan can pick up a book and enjoy it any more than a rabid dog could. They see things that aren't Marvel and see them as the enemy, and enemies are things that should be killed.

>>88733749
>Nothing happened!
>Actually here's what happened
>NOTHING HAPPENED SHUT UP
Not helping your case senpai.

>>88733775
They are both bad. You're a blindass DC fag if you think that only Marvel is bad.

God I fucking like DC more than Marvel, I'm talking about event planning an execution. Not the line as a whole.

>>88733749
Anybody who says "Marvel is bad but DC is just as bad" is 100% guaranteed to be a Marvel fan.

It's kind of pathetic how they can't even defend how bad their own comics are. They just rely on dragging others down.

>>88733813
More like

>Nothing happened!
>Here's some stuff that will happen in 3 months!

Nothing has happened and telling me stuff will start happening in March isn't a fucking correction. It's agreement.

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>>88733777
>Oz doing shit that we don't know the purpose is doesn't build up anything.
>I need to have the antagonists entire plan spelled out to me in the first issue
Sounds like a (You) problem.

>>88733622
>>88733429
Sorry, just mad at the fact that companies are being extremely stupid at eveything as usual.

>>88733749
JL vs SS really is nowhere near as bad to be the example you're using, try again.

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>>88733819
>I love DC
>No SERIOUSLY GUYS I TOTALLY DO
Sure you do kiddo. The way you bullshit with totally false statements that show you're desperately trying to smear DC down to Marvels level really shows your love for them.

>>88733843
Hey retard I just told you three things that have happened. Maybe you should start reading the thread? Or read some comics?

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>>88725825
It's only good compared to NuMarvel and sales are only up because Cape movies are more popular than ever but Marvel comics are too different from MCU to attract newcomers. DC on the other hand has a similar atmosphere across all mediums (print, cinema, cartoons) so when people pick up Supes Rebirth, they have a general idea of what they're getting into

DC is a safer choice and it's a household brand. My parents have never heard of Daredevil, thor, or any other MCU besides Spiderman. Although EVERYONE knows Batman, Superman, Flash, etc. to a certain degree. What's easier for normies to get into: Iron Man and Thor or Superman and Batman?

Plus, DC has comfier shows. Marvel has great shows like Daredevil and well that's the only one I actually like but that's just my opinion but none of the MCU shows connect the way the Arrowverse does

Not only that, but DC had Smallville, Aquaman (pilot), Birds of Prey, Justice League, TASverse and now Gotham.

DC has always been a part of American culture, we just never realized it. Marvel kind of just recently got a foothold into everyone's hearts.

>>88733855
I feel you. Just saying that there's a logical place for the plot to go based on what the first part was like and what Johns has said in interviews. All the "Manhattan is just an antagonist rather than a villain, he's not actually the bad guy here" stuff. There's not a lot of mystery in what they'll do, just the small details.

>>88733849
Ok, tell me what Rebirth's story they've been building up is so far? If your answer is "well Oz captured some people" then you're just pretending like this is a story being told.

Like I said, it's foreshadowing. Foreshadowing a future story isn't a buildup of that story. Flash #9 isn't buildup to JSA just because it was hinting at Jay coming back.

>>88733842
It's really pathetically obvious who's making these threads. Marvelfags just can't handle how terrible their company is these days.

>>88733926
>Foreshadowing a future story isn't a buildup of that story.
Are you fucking retarded?
>Flash #9 isn't buildup to JSA just because it was hinting at Jay coming back.
Never mind I got my answer.

>>88733914
Most of what you've said is false. Movie normies don't buy floppies, just trades. DC's movies, comics and cartoons are all dramatically different. And the OP never even mentioned Marvel so why are you even posting about them?

If you like Rebirth talk about Rebirth but no one asked for nor cares about your adaption opinions. Keep that shit in the relevant threads.

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>>88733926
>Flash #9 isn't buildup to JSA just because it was hinting at Jay coming back.
I think all those Bendis comics you read have turned your brains to mush.

>>88733932
Go back to /tv/, this board never had a problem with calling both companies out. How new are you?

>>88733882
Saying JLvsSS is utter shit is a false statement? Because it's fucking awful. Trying to be super superior about DC over events of all things is inane. They're both absolutely incompetent about it.

I like DC's solos more. That's about it. But going "hurr durr CWII is garbage dc rulez" is the most pathetic fanboy shit I can imagine when DC is also squirting out a diarrhea sundae that you're gobbling up.

>>88725825
It's the Afterbirth of the New52 created by the same people that have no idea how to handle the best universe in comics and repeatedly put the cart before the horse with regards to sales and creativity.

>>88733926
Damn Marlel has gone so long without proper build up for an event their fanbase doesn't even know what build up is anymore. Sad!

>>88733917
Yeah, wasn't really thinking when I said that. I just feel like they're focusing more on the movies (which they are completely failing at by the way) instead of their comics. Even with the commercials next year on the trades, its still not good enough.

>>88733368
Love is back in the universe! Shut the fuck up and keep buying shitty comics and maybe they'll get to it eventually and against all odds not make it the stupidest fucking thing to come out of the company that gave us the New 52!

>>88733961
This is buildup to buildup. It's not actually leading to anything. It's literally just "Hey guys, Oz will do SOMETHING in Rebirth!" Meanwhile the only actual shit about the thing we care about is Wally saying the word Manhattan a single time over 8 titless months.

I was raring to go after DCU Rebirth. That shit was great. I'm glad a lot of DC's books got a much needed revamp (superman especially). But everything about the Rebirth plotline has been fucking mind numblingly sparse.

When does it go from "lul it's just slow build up you fucking pleb" to "jesus this is taking forever to get to ANYTHING of relevance"? Because 1 year is way too long a time to follow up on a fucking comic book story. Fuck /co/ gets pissed off when a comic arc goes past 6 months. I'm suddenly a Marvel shill because I'm disappointed that we've gotten barely anything this whole time?