The Killing Joke animated

>>88713519

Mediocre is being generous. It was awful. Hamil sounded tired of doing it, the performances sounded badly directed and ultimately it feels like they missed the point.

Oh and Batman murders a midget down a spike pit.

>>88713519
Well 65 % was awful Timm writing doing a weakass job at making Barbara feel important so we'll give a shit when she gets shot but that failed horribly and the actual parts that were adatpted from the comic was just bad and everyone sounded fucking tired from the whole thing.

The animation was a fucking disaster, specially the scene where Jack Napier cries on his wife's lap. She looked so badly drawn.

>>88713519
Just do what I did and skip the first 30 mins. Problem is that TKJ is a short story to begin with. But perhaps my biggest gripe is Joker not having a sad reaction for the "Why arent you laughing" line. Also someone misinterpreted a panel, because implying Joker banging hookers is jarring as fuck

>>88713519
Yes. I watched it a a theater and you could everyone's disappointment in the room. The car chase looked awful, worse than 90s anime CGI awful. The art style is also terrible. I hate this style they've been using on these movies. HORRIBLE.

File: WTF.jpg (55KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 1280x720px

>>88713519
The term "phoned in" doesn't summarize how bad this whole film was.
Also the drop in animation quality between the OC story and the actual book painfully shows this was more of Timm and companies boat to ship his damn garbage pairing.
And fucking up the whole 3rd act of the book like they did is enough to make a fan wish for them the worse hell possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC16orUje4M

have a cheap imitator doing a better job than hamil

>>88713749
Ive come to realize that Timm only works if Dini is there to reign him in. I mean I can let his autism slide with Bats/Wondy or Bats/Zatanna, but his obsession with pairing Bruce with Babs is fucking creepy and out of character. Maybe he just hates Dick, I dont know

>>88713548
I don't know he still sounds fine in most movies. I think the direction was terrible and resulted in miserable performances.

>>88713519
It was so awful it made me sad because I love TKJ.

Ultimately the story doesn't have a lot going for it, and without the art the whole thing fails.

Even the ending falls flat without the atmosphere the art creates to carry it.

>>88713727
>I hate this style they've been using on these movies.
Lord knows they're pandering to a bunch of male teen focus groups. Timm knows how to draw. I can't imagine he believes the style is convincing to anyone with a trained eye.

>>88713519
The script was good and the animation was fine, the real issue was the VA direction. Just very lazy, and clearly done by someone who didn't understand the source material.

File: IMG_1942.jpg (746KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

746KB, 2400x2400px

It sucked the emotion of the original dry.

>>88713519
The biggest problem with the Killing Joke that I have is that it feels like it misses the point of the Killing Joke.

That point is that the Joker is insane and that there is nobody like him in the world. The idea of him, or at least the way I saw it is that the idea of 'one bad day', was is just an excuse that Joker hides behind to escape responsibility. In this one, it felt like the writers were trying to justify it as they weren't reading past the subtext of what Moore wrote.

As for the whole, 'Batman kills Joker' thing that they obviously tried to replicate, that was a huge mistake. I do agree with Morrison that Batman realized that he would kill Joker in that last scene, however, I don't think it was immediate. Instead, it was the turning point. The last spot of hope that they had, which the Joker threw away as he ignored the reality in front of him, that reality being he needed help, instead blaming others for his mistakes.

The problem was that they missed a lot of the point. Like how Two Face was presented.

>>88713801
Bruce Timm is a good artist but as a writer he's fucking retarded. Also his obsession with the borderline incest fetish ship that is Barbara x Bruce is just fucking disgusting. Nigga needs to keep his porn away from his work.

>>88713863
>Didnt understand the source material
There are literally half a dozen moments in this fucking thing that scream someone just skimmed over the book, either that or just fucking stupid and couldnt understand a simple panel. It seems lifeless at times too.

File: Concerned with burgerland.jpg (18KB, 320x267px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 320x267px

>>88713801

Batman ever fucking a protege is really wildly out-of-character. Insanely so,even. Having a fucked up childhood is his whole deal, and he'd never really voluntarily aid in doing something as wrong as abusing a position of authority. Let alone the fact that he'd never fuck his adopted kid/best friend/brother's ex-girlfriend.The idea of Batman doing something that cruel to Dick is hard to wrap my head around, y'know?

The new bits in the film version were downright awful. Barbara's sassy gay friend was kinda offensive, and that's coming from a gay dude that isn't a tumblrite.

>>88713801
Timm has openly admitted he thinks Bruce/Babs is the most natural pairing and he thinks is the best.
Dini states that Bruce/Diana is fun because it makes Bat's seem like the "strongest man" without having that true power but he thinks the best pairing for Bruce is Gotham, feeling the moment you give him a relationship "ruins his commitment to justice being served."

>>88713519
At best mediocre, at worse awful. The first half is a slog to get through

>>88713864
> Moore's TKJ
Joker seems broken and desperate. Like he is slowly realizing the futility in his behaviour but knowing that can't bring himself to change.
Truly powerful panels that encompass the character's emotions towards the situation.
> Animated TKJ
Joker is annoyed by the whole thing and he just wants to go home and do something else.

File: amdna.jpg (37KB, 500x477px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 500x477px

>>88713519

>>88713942
See I actually like the Bats/Wondy pairing because shes literally the perfect woman for him, even to the point where "she might get hurt" excuse becomes invalid, and yet his own fucked up mind refuses to let anything concrete to develop. Maybe because the JLU cartoon handled it so well, I dont know, but I like the idea that they had a brief thing but ultimately Bruce refused to be happy.

Timm didn't really like TKJ and it showed.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/batman-the-killing-joke-sexual-violence.html

>>88713942
>Most natural
Most superficial, maybe.

Timm fucking pisses me off, sometimes. Not only is Batman/Bab's the worst ship ever, Batman/Oracle is a fucking decent ship. Honestly, if Batman got with anybody, it would be Oracle or Catwoman. Oracle because they are both touched by tragedy, she's aged up, and he can actually respect her as a working partner.
Catwoman because they're both overwhelmed by circumstance and it can't last. But it would never end for too long.

I could see Wonder Woman being into him but, mostly because pickings are thin (for WW).

>>88713519
They should've used the designs from B:TAS, just looking at this Joker is boring, and stale.
>>88713749
>>88713864
I mean shit, did Timm have zero say on the designs? Did he actually think this shit was appealing?

>>88714143
>To me, it was just kind of a throwaway line. It wasn't like, Oh, we have to make this point. It was just kind of one of those things.

Hahaha. What a dumb shit.

>>88714198
What kills me is if they just focused on TKJ it would be shorter but the budget would be much better. We likely would have gotten that rainy scene at the end and everyone would look much sharper then spongy real dolls.

>>88714167
Even Oracle is a fucking stretch and still a fuck you to Grayson anon. Literally the only Bat pairings worth a damn are
>Selina
>Wonder Woman
>Talia
Even Talia Im not completely sold on. Selina is perhaps still the best option

I would have been so much happier if this was just a short 20 or 30 minute animation. Maybe pair it with something else that doesn't need an hour and a half worth of show time.

File: IMG_1943.jpg (536KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

536KB, 2400x2400px

Look at the guy's reaction to learning his wife died. Seriously.

>>88713942
>he thinks the best pairing for Bruce is Gotham, feeling the moment you give him a relationship "ruins his commitment to justice being served."
Honestly, this sounds about right. It does feel antithetical to the character to develop a stable relationship that isn't primarly about crime-fighting.

>>88714234
Hes trying to save face and imply that they didnt fuck up understanding a simple panel. Either that, or he really doesnt give a fuck what Azz does

>>88714311
A double feature, that'd be nice

File: 1481505837039.jpg (73KB, 437x356px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 437x356px

>>88714344
>Always hated it when movie adaptions of comic books are live-action
>but the few times someone realizes that it would be better to do a movie adaption in the form of animation
>9/10 the designs are stale and don't even come close to the quality of the comic book's design
>mfw

>>88714350
I really get the feeling he's confused about Brian. Azz is exactly the kind of guy who would go farther with the sexually violent elements. He could just be saving face but, I get the feeling he really did just fuck up. Not Brian, though.

File: Untitled.png (1MB, 1704x934px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1704x934px

>>88713924
>he new bits in the film version were downright awful.
Especially this
http://kisscartoon.me/Cartoon/Batman-The-Killing-Joke/Movie?id=71011

0:21:04

>>88713519
Because what the killing joke needed was a badly written love subplot

>>88713873


Seriously the whole point of the story is Joker screaming, begging almost for Batman to realize it's not his fault. That it can happen to anyone, and while he's not wholly wrong he's not entirely right either.

Batman fell down a dark path but in a different direction and Joker sees this as a sign that he's part to blame and is desperate to deny the truth.

>>88714705
I was ready to turn off the player at that point. It was so obnoxious that it made Babs seems like a needy middle school girl.
For fuck sakes Sailor moon wasn't this boy obsessed.

>>88714344
I would bet any amount that was done for budget reasons and that makes me hate that Batwoman story twice as much becuase all that money wasted could have been used for a better animated story.

>>88715289
Its only through mental gymnastics does Babs not look like a psycho hurting that guy. I mean all the guy said was he wanted space.

File: 7ff008cfdeac26001b6dfef7b18091f4.jpg (10KB, 236x177px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 236x177px

>>88713924
Sassy gay best friend? Wait, we still do this? In 2016? Goin' on 17?

>>88715493
Sassy gay best friend in media has been a thing at least since the late 60s
It never leaves because women love the idea of a male friend that they know actual wants to be their friend and not thirsty as fuck for them and flamboyant makes them giggle.

File: 1481772969105s.jpg (8KB, 162x250px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 162x250px

The Killing Joke is the exact moment when Batman turned to shit.

>>88713942
>Timm has openly admitted he thinks Bruce/Babs is the most natural pairing and he thinks is the best.
he only says this because older men rejecting a begging younger woman until he reluctantly gives in is his fetish
maybe he self inserts as the older man, i dunno

>The Killing Joke: 52%

>Return of the Caped Crusaders: 89%

Critics have good taste sometimes.

File: ParisFranz.png (354KB, 788x478px) Image search: [Google]

354KB, 788x478px

Terrible villain or worst villain?

>>88715398
GURL POWAH

>>88713519
so much so that my batman loving girlfriend isnt going to watch it

>>88715398
This pissed me off so much sees two couples arguing takes it out on a random guy who did nothing because a man older than her wouldn't giver her the "D". It was unnecessary and pointless.

>>88713548
>Hamil sounded tired of doing it...
He's been trying to quit since the Arkham games.

>>88715289
Sailor Moon wasn't really that boy obsessed desu. She's into food, mostly.

>>88715611
That's an alright link, except Barbara is Batman's best friend's daughter, the ex girlfriend of his son and finally, his student. Bruce would be breaking taboos by 3x, this probably makes it sexier to Bruce Timm, nasty old man. Bruce Timm should keep his dick off his work, honestly.

I felt physically uncomfortable at Babs and Bruce fucking

>>88716230
How fucking DARE you you FUCKING WHITE MALE. She's a strong independent woman and if she wants to FUCK BATMAN SHE CAN. and NO ONE should be able to TELL HER NO.

>>88716245
Well... sure... but the point is that's not something either character would normally do.
>inb4 "not muh"

>>88716002
>45 YEAR OLD MAN HAS SEX WITH ADOPTED SON'S 19 YEAR OLD GIRLFRIEND

>>88714276

That would be

LOONEY

>>88716552
Well, the point is: feminism ruined it. Now she's, "empowered." So she can't be wrong. For whatever reason. And Batman will always be wrong. If he fucks her or not.

>>88716597
I don't know that Bruce Timm and co. are feminists, especially - it just seems like they thought R-rating = sex and that was the quickest way to shoehorn it in.

File: 2877351-bruce_timm.jpg (11KB, 414x640px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 414x640px

>>88716644
>he thinks Bruce Timm isn't a feminist
Just look at this guy.

>>88716676
>problem glasses
kek

>>88716676
>>88716695
He just looks like a middle-aged animator.

>>88714856
I think that he desperately wants to be understood and have someone stand along side him so he doesn't want to feel alone. That is why he so fixated on Batman. Because, at the end of the day, he thinks that Batman is the same as him.

But the one more day thing, never makes sense as it is obvious that there was more going on. Joker is denying reality and desperately trying to romanticize his existence, because at the end of the day, he realizes that if he doesn't, then he is nothing. And that is the one thing that he can never be.

Is he still a monstrous piece of psychotic filth? Yes. Does it excuse his actions? No. Is it understandable. Absolutely.

>>88716874
>monstrous piece of psychotic filth
But he's not. He did literally nothing wrong.

>>88716597
>>88716644
>>88716676
Feminist or no they clearly tried to drum up "girl power" in the bit that started the film. I wonder if their hope was that if they made Babs super tough at the start it would cool the heels of anyone that would be offended at the Joker's molestation of her. In irony they rape her worse than the Joker with that short story.

>>88716961
He's killed a few hundred people

>>88716976
>try to make her tough
>turn her into a turbo-bitch, and have her job to a shit-tier goon
Bravo Timm!

>>88713801
Batman is Timm's husbando

>>88717005
Gothamites are not people. Gotham is a blight that should be destroyed.

The original comic was short enough that it could have been an episode of "Batman: The Animated Series". The decision to artificially extend the adaptation's length did not surprise me. The decision to destroy Barbara Gordon's character with that extra time came as a shock, though. Add the garbage animation and lazy voice acting to that unwelcome surprise and you need not wonder why the film sucked.

(Side note: Warner Bros. should keep Bruce Timm far away from the "Batman" franchise from now on.)

>>88717019

You forgot something:

>make her pine for Batman so much that she ends up fucking him on a rooftop

Bruce Timm is a goddamned monster.

wow.

I really like that story that proceeded the Killing Joke.

I still don't think you should be slinging this shit to kids.

But it is what it is. Kids don't stay out late and sneak into R rated movies anymore. They stay up late and watch Batman on Netflix.

>>88716976
You know, there are chicks that can actually fight. Back in 'nam women used to join the VC all the time, they'd use them as advanced scouts during the day and they'd come back in black pajama's at night.

Its rare, but a woman occasionally does have some mettle to her.

>>88716676
He does not look healthy or well put together. I kind of wonder whats going on upstairs.

>>88716676
He looks like Craig Kilbourne with downs. (For those of you who don't know, hes the guy who used to host the daily show before Jhon Stewart)

I don't know.

I only watched the first part.

>>88716676
he looks like Adam Savage without the beard

>>88713519
It was quality up until they cut out the bridge of light in the puddle. 8.5/10

>>88717212
Also the Late Late Show before Ferguson took up the Craig mantle

>>88714305

The problem with Wonder Woman is that outside of the superficial shit that she has in common with Superman (looks, costumes and powers), she and Batman are too similar in personality, goal and actions.

They're both completely dedicated to their life mission.
They're both completely dedicated to their superhero persona and life.
They're both constantly aiming and working to improve themselves mentally and physically.
They're both sure of themselves, arrogant, stubborn and somewhat intransigent.
They're both more warriors than anything else.
They're "princes" and celebrities outside f their costumes.
They're both completely dedicated to their careers outside of their costume and their humanitarian efforts.

So it's like having two Batmen dating, only one is male and without super-powers and the other if female and with awesome super-powers.

>>88714856
I think the Joker wants to die and wants Batman to kill him because Batman is a weird reflection of the Joker. This is reflected in the title "The Killing Joke."

>>88716644
This. Goddamn, it was an attempt to contrive drama into a third act that didn't have much to do with Barbara Gordon in the source material. She gets shot - that's basically her entire arc in TKJ.

>>88718311

See what they should have done is used that time to set up the relationship between her and Jim.

Joker's plan is to drive him nuts by hurting her and seeing their relationship explored more would be much better than "She's his daughter feel for them because we say so"

>>88718588
Right, but this would be the result of competent writing and would not create "hype" at the prospect of a "mature" Batman with an R rating.

File: Bear ass.jpg (18KB, 416x314px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 416x314px

>>88713519
DC has never made a good adaption that was true to the source material, let alone a fucking Allan Moore book of all things, and will continue to create shit as long as they exist.

File: For_the_Man_Who_Has_Everything.jpg (45KB, 670x373px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 670x373px

>>88719132
Exhibit A, your honor

>>88717057
>(Side note: Warner Bros. should keep Bruce Timm far away from the "Batman" franchise from now on.)

He's already doing a Batman/Harley Quinn movie sometime next year.

File: Little girl tries to clean up other girl's yogurt mess.jpg (75KB, 671x900px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 671x900px

>>88715493

It was...Kinda really bad. Not something I expected either. The film's first half has a lot of cuts to Barbara working at the library and telling her sassy gay friend aaaaallll about her attraction to Batman.And every other word out of her mouth is pretty much "Meeeeeoooow girl" or some shit.

Better than Barbara's friend from the comics though. The trans one who was all "I know you've seen some shit, but I'm transgender and that's a big deal in the news right now."

>>88719262

*his mouth, not her mouth.

>>88719154
But that's the only adaptation Alan Moore liked.

>>88719286
exactly, it's a counterpoint to anon #1's dumb post

>>88717043
Jason pls.

File: Untitled.jpg (88KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 1920x1080px

>>88713519
What the fuck is up with his face?

>>88713942
>but he thinks the best pairing for Bruce is Gotham
I knew that Dini is patrician.

File: image.jpg (93KB, 480x600px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 480x600px

>>88713519
Missed the tone of the comic completely.

>>88713519
Btw, how did Moore get away with crippling Batgirl?

>>88719497
she wasn't Batgirl at the time and no one was using her so he asked if he could kill her, editorial said "maybe just cripple her?" and Moore said "aight coo"

>>88719497
Oracle > Batgirl

>>88719497
it wasn't meant to be in-canon, it was meant to be a 'the end of batman' what-if
but then every other writer just ran with the 'barbara has been crippled' status quo

File: suicide-squad-49-cover-oracle.jpg (203KB, 484x750px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 484x750px

>>88719537
This. Regressing her back to Batgirl was one of the New 52's worst mistakes

>>88719132

TDKR was good. Peter Weller as Batman was great.

I don't even mind the few liberties they took with the story.

>>88719627
Cassfag pls.

>>88715973
Yeah, but he always wanted Killing Joke as his Swansong.

>>88713519
It also looked janky as hell, visually

File: 1469826431581.webm (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>88713669
This one single cut of the Joker at the end of this webm is legitimately the only good looking piece of animation in this entire movie

>>88715362
I'm not so sure, the animation quality of the animated DTVs have been steady declining over the years. Probably because they've been selling less and less

>>88716002

Jesus Christ, was Babs really only 19? It's bad enough that she's his surrogate daughter, but she's a teenager? Get your shit together Bruce. That's just sad.

>southpark did a better killing joke than the actual animated killing joke

>>88719537

It really annoys me people complain about Babs being fridged when Killing Joke was the starting point of her character growth. She was meaningless as Batgirl, but as Oracle she overcame what Joker did to her and became stronger for it.

>>88716552
Cept she's shown an attraction to older men for ages not just Batman. Heck she had a crush on Killer moth sounding like the strong authoritative uncle.

>>88716578
It's just SEX. for GOD's sake. it doesn't have to MEAN anything.

>>88713519
Somehow they made a Moore story even worse. How is that even possible? Glad he got wrecked though. Moore must be fuming to know that he's not even good at making bad stories.

>>88721266
That's what I tell my rape victims all the time but they just can't seem to get over it.

>>88715863
He needs to show up as a joke villain in one of the games, like a tutorial boss or something.

>>88719497
>>88719522
>>88719552
Not true.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/batgirl-special-1-the-last-batgirl-story/4000-172329/

File: 1396108752897.gif (2MB, 400x500px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x500px

>>88713519
I liked it.