Is there any possible way to make a gay character who doesn't

Yes, make your autobiography.

>>88578758
Damn near all of them, you're just homophobic.

>>88578774
whew

I dont even support faggots but I hate these arguments. It only "feels" forced because you want it to. They're gay, get the fuck over it.

Like that whole thing with that meme Overwatch character. The game has no story in-game at all and yet people are crying "FORCED!" when they reveal the mascot is gay.

Yes, but people will complain that it is anyway.

>>88578758
no

they would just be a normal character until they showed their same sex partner or expressed any interest in someone of the same sex at which point it would be "forced"

>>88578758
Yes, just make it a minor detail about them. Have them be a well rounded and developed character that just happens to like the same gender.

>>88578781
name one

>>88578758
No.

>>88578872
Character walks on screen with their SO

>>88578872
That guy is gay and kisses dudes. He also does other things.

>>88578758
The gay couple from mission hill.

>>88578758
No. They are forced merely by existing. Their mere inclusion implies a loud political statement for an agenda.

>>88578758

Just have him or her say "I'm gay" and that's it. Maybe at times he/she does things like reject the opposite sex, but very subtle.

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remember how forced this was

>>88578951
TOOOOOKEEEEEEEEEEN

That depends entirely on what you consider forced.

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>>88578951
nope also forced

>>88578995

>>88578962 and >>88578807 are blatant examples. Possibly even worse than the old blatant stereotypes.

>>88578758
They should never mention it in the series, just have it be a bit of backstory.

>>88578995
If it doesn't matter that he's gay it's forced

>>88579026

That was just a quick joke about how a beefy guy is actually a homosexual (If that's the appropriate way to say it.).

>>88579026
loved this
and it didn't feeled forced because she asked him out on a date.

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>>88578758
Make their relationship the last priority

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>>88578758
>Write a good or funny character
>Add in a small gag or hint that implies they're gay then abandon it
It's not that fucking hard

>>88578995
I think it might be best to take what a lot /co/ considers forced with a grain of salt.

>>88578758
Take time doing it, develop them, don't just write 'this is Bobby, he likes dick'
Look at Tim Drake, everybody knows he's bi in denial even though nobody wrote it yet
Look at Midnighter, him being gay is a part of his character, not a central/only point

make them happen to be gay, not only gay. the tracer thing is fine, everyone just wants to bitch about something.

Write them as a completely normal character and don't mention their sexuality at all.

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>>88579165
>then abandon it
then they aren't gay it's just a one-off gag

>>88579190
Tim Drake's dick goes into hiding every time a girl so much as winks at him.

>>88578758

Could you go into some details about any particular homosexual character that made them seem forced to you? I'm mostly wondering what bar you're setting for a character to seem natural.

>>88579256

>>88578807
>>88578962

And most comic book ones.

>>88579216
Normal people mention their sexuality all the time. Not necessarily as "I'm straight" or "I'm gay", but people will talk about who they are and aren't attracted to among friends or coworkers. I have one female coworker who is nonstop talking about the d. It would be unusual to have a person who never showed interest or formed romantic relationships with others.

People here say that gayness is automatically pandering. They just don't want to see gay people.

Of course, there have definitely been times when they make a character gay to appeal to certain things. Particularly with lesbians.

>>88578758
right now it's impossible to make a gay or even a racial minority character without making it political

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Yes

>>88578758
Gay males are by default less forced since lesbians are so widespread and cheaply thrown, especially in indie works.

>>88579301
Yeah, guys talk about tits and asses and wanting to bang women a lot.

>>88578758
There's probably no right way to do it according to most of /co/ because it'll come off as "forced" or "pandering" or whatever either way.

Don't mention the character's gay and say he is after the fact, or just subtly imply it? OBVIOUSLY he's not actually gay then; it's just the creators or making shit up for diversity points.

Actually show a character's gay in some way, like having him do gay shit on screen or mention it directly? Wow what is this faggotry, why do they keep forcing these gay characters into stories?

>>88579026
This was fucking hilarious.

>>88578807
This. To most of the people who complain about this shit a gay character simply existing is "forced".

>>88579216

Like Nick Wilde ?

>>88578758
>Vocal minority of the population
>They aren't either the target or periphery audience
>Not forced
2% of the population is gay. Coincidentally, 2% of the population is jewish. Also coincidentally is their over-representation in media.

>>88578758
Not to you.

>>88578758
Yeah, you just have to not be triggered by gay people.

>>88579389
I always knew the media was controlled by gay jews.

>>88579389
Actually, it's more like 10-13%.

You want to talk about over-representation in media, let's talk about how there's twins in everything.

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>>88578758
Yeah, have them find out they are gay the hard way.

>>88579301
>Normal people mention their sexuality all the time.
No they don't.

> I have one female coworker who is nonstop talking about the d.
She is not a normal person.

She is, from your description, a desperate overweight tie-die haired 4channer.

>>88578758
Do what you want. People here are not the right ones to answer this question since There will always be some faggot who will consider it forced.
So just make a character which main priority is not having them scream at every opportunity how gay they are (unless you want to make an entitled cretin who gets called out for this)

>>88579469
People talk about their partners or the people they find attractive all the time you dumbass. It's easily one of the most common things people talk about, why do you think 50% of songs are about romance, sex, and relationships?

>>88578857
this

i thought about it for a while and with how 4chan is, a character can be cool or whatever, but AS SOON as they show any and i mean ANY 1% of lesbo tendencies, they are forced as FUCK with no reasons other than SJW

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I mean they basically took the "My wife" police trope and changed it with "my husband".
Didn't felt that forced.

>>88579503
>It's easily one of the most common things people talk
This is why I don't talk to people.

>>88579447
>10-13%
Funny... that's the percent of the population that's black...

>>88578758
Write them like you would right a straight one.

>>88579551
>the jews put on a black blanket on their heads and pretend to be black.

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>>88578774

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>>88579447
>more like 10-13%

I dunno, I felt like Apollo and Midnight isn't that bad.

>>88578758
Yes but it will never happen for the sort of people that care about whether or not there are gay people in media since it requires that the character not be defined by their sexuality and have an actual personality, unfortunately sjws just want token characters that can be used as mouthpieces for their agenda.

>>88578758
Yes, just remove all the power fantasy of getting back at the oppressive social expectations and blatant preaching narratives and you're golden. It appeals homosexuals who faces those problems, sure, but for others they are often just something along the same lines than self-insert fanfics.

>>88578758
>completely forced
I think that's pretty subjective. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't find it genuine.

>>88578758
Yes.
Don't write a gay character. Write a character that happens to be gay.
t. homo

>>88578807
>It only "feels" forced because you want it to
When people say "forced" they are referring to a character that is entirely defined by their minority status that has no other defining attributes or character traits, whose story only consists of stories of dealing with bigotry or other topical issues so that if you stripped away their minority status there would be nothing of worth to them.
>Like that whole thing with that meme Overwatch character.
Ironically Blizzard actually did the right thing with Tracer since by the time they said she was gay she already had an established personality and story so her being gay is more of an afterthought rather than her entire character.

>>88579026
>it's a "They exist so it's forced on me" thread
Reverse /co/mblr strikes again
The same faggots that run around /aco/ telling everyone they're gay if they like futa as if that's supposed to be some kind of insult

>>88578758
Fallout New Vegas did it pretty well.

"Forced" gay characters aren't as prevalent as people act, they just get uncomfortable whenever there's a gay in a story. Of course there are some terrible examples of gay characters that exist just to pander or are truly forced, Iceman becoming gay comes to mind.

>>88578758

Being subtle about it is the best way to go. Be the Isaac Sirko from Dexter was a soft spoken, ruthless killer who also happened to be gay.

Make him a person first before adding sexuality.

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There is no way, /co/ will bitch and complain until the sun sets and then they'll still find a reason to act like a gay character is the end of the world.

>>88580404
I don't think that's fair. There are straight characters that are overwhelmingly defined by being a womanizer or desperate for love from the opposite sex, so why not gay characters?

>>88578758
Not /co/, but I think a pretty good example is Holt from Brooklyn 99. The way they introduced it felt a bit forced (detective can't piece together he's gay despite all the signs, audience is given very little hints before the "it's obvious if you're paying attention" reveal), but once it's established, they write him primarily with who he is in mind, and what he is is tertiary. It comes up a lot, but it doesn't really affect the plot (one exception, an episode revealed a homophobe within the last 5 minutes); even when his husband is brought up, that they're gay isnt the point, it's that they're together.

tl:dr, being gay is a trait, but it's not the point, even if it's happening on-screen/panel; the character/plot is the point.

>>88579447
No, statistically there are much less than that. I'd buy that the statistics are still skewed low because of people being in the closet/denial because being gay isn't totally accepted, especially among certain religious groups, but there's no reason to believe 1 in 10 people is gay.

>>88580449
No, when people here say forced they mean: I don't like this because my bias but if i say that in an argument i would lose by default.

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The new Giant-man is gay, but until now it worked (because the only one who wrote didnt put: HAHA HE IS GAAAAAAAAAAY)

>>88580743
There's a new Giant Man?

Fuck. With Lang back as Ant-Man, what the hell is Pym calling himself now?

>>88580765
Wait, disregard that, I suck cocks.

I remember now he fuckin' merged with Ultron.

>>88580694
Something being forced is a popular term, so it gets abused a lot. However, that doesn't mean it can't be valid criticism. Don't be obtuse.

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>>88578774
FPBP

>>88580743
>HAHA HE IS GAAAAAAAAAAY
Is this a giantness related pun? Because it made me laugh

>>88579366

...literally who?

Was going to ask this in my own thread but since yall talking about gays anyway: does anyone know of any gay snake characters? I don't mean metaphorical snakes, I'm looking for reptiles that engage in homosexual behavior.

>>88579366
Nick likes the rabbit

There is, but honestly, people will probably say it's forced anyway.

Should the character's sexuality be a big deal or just a detail? If it's the former people will complain that you can only get gay representation if it's what the whole character revolves around, if it's the latter people will say it's just forced pandering since it's not important.

>>88578910
Was just about to post this. If you're going to have a gay couple, make them interesting BEYOND "they're gay". Wally and Gus are great because they have character beyond the fact that they're two old gay dudes, and whenever their sexuality is brought up its for a lighthearted joke (such as the "Last time I felt a butt this smooth Eisenhower was president" gag).

Too many shows and movies make the idea of poking fun at gay couples as taboo, like if you make an innocent joke about a pair of lesbians that somehow makes you a homophobe or something.

>>88579026
I remember at that reveal like me and 2 other people scattered in the theater just lost our shit and bursted out laughing.

One of the best moments in a movie with a LOT of great moments.

Apollo and Midnighter ?

>Omar Little
>Julien Lowe
>Isaak Sirko (even if the show he's in was shit, he was an enjoyable antagonist)

Television manages.

>>88581027
These definitely.

>>88578758
Maybe like Marvel did Northstar?
Dont make out of a sudden a "coming out of the closet" story.
And dont restrict the character only as "the gay" character.

>>88578758
I dream of a world where the West stops being so ridiculously prudish and stops giving a shit who someone wants to fuck.
It shouldn't be considered shameful, but also shouldn't be jerked over by SJWs and fujos for being "so progressive".

I like men, I like women, I like dickgirls, but don't call me queer. I like what I like.

>>88580920
I think the rules for inclusion of a gay character are the same for the rules of romance in a story in general. Too big, and it becomes a tumor on the plot/character overall (romance stories obviously excluded). It becomes annoying and bland and you just don't want to deal with it anymore. Too little, and you may as well not include it all. It's nice as fan service, but from a narrative point of view, doesn't matter at all.

You've got to strike the right balance of relevant to the character, but not overshadowing their plot significance

>>88580622
That's still "Character who happens to be gay."

It's "gay character" if it's they make it a point they aren't straight. Like Jim Carey in that Living Color bit.

>>88579190
>Look at Midnighter, him being gay is a part of his character, not a central/only point

This is exactly right. It's a comic book character. His central point should be doing comic book character stuff, not "LOOK EVERYONE HES GAY". That's what people complain about, the bad writing.

>>88580622
>There are straight characters that are overwhelmingly defined by being a womanizer or desperate for love from the opposite sex
Those are usually not main characters though or characters that are considered to be well written.

>>88578758
NO! Delete LGBT already.

>>88578758
Northstar I think. Always never minded him.

Wiccan and Hulkling are a pretty good written gay couple. Unfortunately Wiccan gets all the cool storylines while Hulkling has only got the part about being the son of Mar-Vell

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>>88578758

-Gus and Wally from Mission Hill
-The jock in paranorman
-Colossus during the first Ultimate X Men run
-Northstar from the Marvel 616 universe
-The black guy from Chasing Amy
-The entire cast of Final Fantasy 15

Honestly movies do a much better job of this than comics because generally comics are written in a particular style that favors the overt over subtleties.

The issue is that pandering to the gay population is now big business so any time comic writers try to jam a gay character into a book (which is usually done now by taking an established character and then retroactively announcing HE WAS GAY THE WHOLE TIME! IT'S NOT A CHOICE, THIS IS WHO HE IS, DEAL WITH IT AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU ARE AN INTOLERANT BIGOT) it comes across as pandering. And again,. because comic writers don't get subtlety it's usually done in a terrible and distasteful way.

I'm sure there are other examples of characters that don't feel forced but the people in this thread are having a hard time coming up with many.

>>88580909

in a friend kind of way

>>88581095
> fujos
> caring about progresiveness

Maybe the tumblr kids, but for most fujos it's about having hot guys doing things together.

>>88581303
No

>>88580449
>When people say "forced" they are referring to a character that is entirely defined by their minority status that has no other defining attributes or character traits, whose story only consists of stories of dealing with bigotry or other topical issues

What people? Surely not people on 4chan? The very existence of minorities in mediums makes this place an echo box of SJW jeering. There have been plenty of cases where the characters had a story that didn't revolve around oppression, but the moment its mentioned, 4chan completely invalidates a character.

>>88580449
>Ironically Blizzard actually did the right thing with Tracer since by the time they said she was gay she already had an established personality and story so her being gay is more of an afterthought rather than her entire character.
people bitched about it anyway

>>88579301
You mean real lesbians don't yell "I'm a lesbian" every ten minutes?

>>88581353
Imagine the amount of asshurt they would have got if they made the gorilla man dude gay

>>88580449
>Ironically Blizzard actually did the right thing with Tracer since by the time they said she was gay she already had an established personality and story so her being gay is more of an afterthought rather than her entire character.
and that means it's now forced

that's the entire reason this thread exists

make it realistic. I heard when most gays "hit" on each other they just ask "top or bottom?"

Unlike most here i think it would be better to start off with informing the viewers that the character is gay. No hiding it to the last second, or sublty hint at it then reveal it later. Just be upfront about the character being gay from the start so people know what's happening.

And obviously don't make being gay their only trait. Have the character be like any other character, but also gay.

>>88581374
no they do but that's because lesbians are the worst

>>88581380
Any other tips on how to not write gay characters?

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I'm gay, and I thought this felt pretty forced. Am I wrong?

>>88581457
No it was forced as fuck.

>>88581457
You are correct

>>88580904
So, that's a no on gay snakes?

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>>88578758
Just make them fuck on screen

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You know what I miss? Flamboyant gay villains.

Nowadays they exist in a weird limbo where we could actually have them be gay rather than just implied, but no one wants to take that route because god forbid we code a villain as gay or even worse, have him have an unhealthy interest in the hero. It grinds my gears because the "I have you now my pretty" thing is really common with male villains and female heroes and the "converting dick" is common with female villains and male heroes, but the second it's two guys it becomes too problematic to even consider.

>>88580920

In this hyper-environment of identity politics.. the situation plays as much into the backlash as the idea itself.

>>88578758
Definitely. Just don't mention it until it's relevant.

If someone's introducing the character and one of the major aspects of their character is that they're gay without it being what the story is about is a mark of a pretty shitty character imo.

>>88581474
nah, there were small signs but it feels like an ass pull because she showed interest in men first.

>>88581387
>And obviously don't make being gay their only trait.

While I realize this has been said many times over, I feel like writers continually fuck this up. Too many times a gay character's defining trait is his gay relationship or problems caused by being gay. I think David from Six Feet Under is one of the only truly great and three-dimensional gay characters. Being gay was a part of his character, but he was defined in so many other ways.

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>>88581499
Not any reptilian ones, no.

>>88581336
yes.

interspiece relationship would be taboo in their world.

>>88581517
>nah, there were small signs but it feels like an ass pull because she showed interest in men first.
that's because Korra is bi you fucking retard

>>88581517
It was an asspull, and most if not all those "hints" were 2deep4u subtle if they were even hints at all.

>>88581512
Joker has been pretty gay recently.

>>88581562
yet it was still in the film

>>88581517
She could be bi, but my biggest problem is that there wasn't any kind of flirtation or romantic overtones. There simply wasn't enough dedicated to their relationship for it to feel genuine. Worst of all was Bryan condescending to everyone who said that, saying we were looking at them through it our hetero-normative lenses.

>>88581573

Yeah, but whatever interest he may have in Batman will always play second fiddle to his relationship with Harley.

>>88581573

This is a mistake that makes people hate you. Do not mettle with pre-existing characters. That screams agenda.

>>88581587
>She could be bi,
She is bi, Bryke mentioned this in the very same blog post. I'm' not defending it but get your facts straight.

>>88581596
I haven't read since Death of the Family, but Harley wasn't even in that, and that's what I was thinking of.

Though after Suicide Squad we're probably getting a lot more Joker and Harley.

>>88578758
Don't remind the audience they're gay every panel. Don't force gay issues into literally every issue. Don't have them act in a stereotypical way. Don't change an old character gay for the sake of it. And most importantly don't advertise the series as being about a gay character, that shouldn't be the draw

>>88578758
Don't make them being gay the main part of their character. Make it a minor detail even. For example have the character go through the story, then at some point just show them with someone of the same gender, don't draw attention to it and move on.
Just treat gay characters like you would straight characters

>>88581596
>second fiddle to his relationship with Harley.
to the fans, yeah. not in most written works, no.

>>88581631
>And most importantly don't advertise the series as being about a gay character, that shouldn't be the draw
For the record sometimes the writers don't have a choice on how things are advertised in the media.

>>88581522
I think part of that has to do with the often sudden reveal. It somehow shifts the focus of the character to them being gay instead of what they were before.

Like Tracer, i think that for many she is now "that gay character from overwatch" instead of a spunky/cartoony character from overwatch.

>>88578807
Exactly. The game has no story, yet somehow we know the sexuality of one of the characters? that's the definition of forced.

>>88581615
Well excuse me, princess.

>>88581676
She can be cartoonishly gay character from overwatch.

>>88581682
I guarantee you most Overwatch players don't even know because most of them don't keep up with the comics.

It's like TF2 where the game itself doesn't really have much to go on but they decided to push a story with the comics for the hell of it.

>>88581676

Two attractive lesbians isn't much of a risk for a male dominated audience.

>>88578807
She does flirt pretty hard with Widowmaker in the shorts but it could just as easily have been taking the piss. Could still be.

>>88581699
Yeah, but i doubt people see it that way. And i think it's because they weren't up front about it.

>>88581676
>Like Tracer, i think that for many she is now "that gay character from overwatch

I don't think that can be helped. If they had started out with her clearly being a lesbian she would called pandering or fapbait. Sometimes these things can't be helped, and you gotta push through the bullshit anyway.

>>88581722
Unless one of them is revealed as being trans.

>>88581353
>people bitched about it anyway
People will bitch about anything

>>88578807
Wait that cute Australian girl with the glasses is gay? That's pretty hot

>>88578758

yes, you open the scene with a completely new character in a completely new book, he is in bed with someone of the same sex and they are both naked. Condoms on the night table and a buttplug too, one of the characters is smoking and the other is assleep.

from this point everyone will know he is gay which is a lot different than taking a character that was created 20/30/50 years ago and all of a sudden he gets gay urges.

>>88581783
>Australian
She's British.

>>88581722
Lesbians are the most unoffensive gay characters. I wonder how real lesbians feel about their sudden prevalence in media.

>>88581745

which would make them genetically a normal couple..

>>88579534
This was good in a show where everyone cries over spilled cheese.

>>88581378
It isn't though since the only mention of it is a single comic.

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>>88581682
Thhiissss is what I feel, yes.

>>88581801

Probably same way most women feel, they're raised in an environment dominated by male desire so it wouldn't probably be that different from bisexuals or straight ladies. I mean as a male do we really differentiate? Women can label themselves whatever they want, males will chase them anyway. Construct scenarios using other women to get whatever situation is already in their mind.

Lots of women have experiences with guys growing up and then end up deciding they're lesbian.

So by that dichotomy.. they're always in contrast with what we want and will never escape it unless the world goes Y The Last Man.

>>88581805
Yes... Unless trans in the other direction...

>>88580546
Arcade, The Alchemist, and Ray Gilette are all examples of gay characters done right.

Shore Leave is a different kind of gay character done right in that he's insanely flamboyant, but also legitimately kicks ass.

>>88578758
Yes. There is. I think building a character that is great is part of a beautiful craft that needs to be mastered.

I never make a character with the intention of having him/her be gay. I start with the basics, like if they're human, are they from Earth, did they have parents, were they born in America...just basically create a rough sketch of an idea for them to help know what type of story I'll do and how the character reflects that.

Then, I'll decide more about their specifics. Are they male or female? Do they grow up rich, poor, or somewhere in the middle? And, most importantly, what does he/she want?

So, with that basic guide, let's try it out as if we've been asked to do a comedy/action. Alright, well where's the protagonist from? Let's say Germany. Germany is a nice place with a history's worth of regret. Perhaps that can reflect something the character did. So yeah, Germany. Usually you should pick a specific part of you location that helps get an idea of your character's upbringing, but for brevity's sake, let's say Heilbron. Our character probably lived in a small village near it.

So we have a character's background and where they are from. This is where I depend more upon what "feels" right to me, and my mind for whatever reason is saying that this character is a girl, probably twenty-seven. Her parents were probably raised by people who experienced WWII first-handedly, so her parents in turn might be stricter than what we're used to. She lived in a village near Heilbront, her parents maybe like to farm? That would give her a reason to want to dissociate from them--she wants to visit the world, not farm. Instead, she's still there, twenty-seven, and farming.

Now of course, we know her. She wants out of her traditionally family life-style so she's a bit rebellious, she's young and wishes to see the world, and is sick of her normal life.

Now tell me, does she sound more likely to be straight or gay...or will she turn gay?

>>88581870

which would still be a man and a woman, just with two vaginas. Either way its the same thing.

>>88579447

You're hopefully thinking of black people which is currently sitting at 13%.

A 2013 National Institute of Health survey:

96.6% of adults identified as straight
1.6% identified as gay or lesbian
0.7% identified as bisexual.
The remaining 1.1% of adults identified as “something else[]" [0.2%,] stated “I don’t know the answer[]" [0.4%] or refused to provide an answer [0.6%].

Is there some wiggle room from people not self-identifying? Likely some but almost assuredly not even a 1% value, not from an anonymous health survey in 2013, its not like asking people in the 1950s.

So you end up with something like 3% of people who say they're non-straight, at most. Could probably chip away half at lesbian count from being LUGs.

You didn't honestly believe that 13% of the population is gay did you?

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>>88578774

>>88578758
Just have it be a thing and don't make a big deal out of it. Basically if you make "Character X revealed as gay in Issue #Y" a news article then you've failed.

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>>88578758
?

>>88581881
> implying a person's sexuality doesn't change their life experiences, hence affecting their personality

anon, no.

>>88581901
Where do we place men who like traps with feminine penises

>>88581901
Alright so 1.1% are fucking hentai transfaggots

>>88581913
I don't think that's fair, you and I both know that several websites will blow anything out of proportion.

>>88581801
They have to deal with two kinds of annoying men increasingly: those who fetishize lesbians, and those who hate them.

>>88581943

in a sense this is nature of clickbait as yellow journalism 2.0

>>88581949

I think you need to qualify, males will hate lesbians if one is ugly. Or if they're both ugly.

>>88580933
>brought up its for a lighthearted joke
there is no such thing as a lighthearted joke for gay couples because homophobes treat gay characters like theyre fucking scum and a straight character is immediately weirded out by a gay guy making a joke about being gay

even in your example Andy ends up freaking out because a gay guy is touching his ass

>>88581378
There is nothing forced about someone going home and getting kissed by their girlfriend, though. It would have been forced if it was included in her old bios for no reason. Up until now, we had relatively little insight into the more mundane side of the Overwatch character's lives, so it wouldn't have come up before.

>>88580801
Fuck that, let the bastard be obtuse. The more people disengage and pretend that any criticism of this opportunistic garbage is invalid, the more likely it is that other people will ignore them in turn when they get burned the same way. Nothing makes a person think twice about what they do quite like a brush off from someone in their own in-group.

>>88581575

you're making it up.

>>88582046
ask /ztg/, they'll show you the webms

The bully from It Hurts is unironically great representation.

>>88582002
WRONG. Being gay is fucking forced bullshit pandering.

>>88578758
How about they stop sexualizing these cartoon and comic characters made for children in the first place?

>>88579359
Because in a fiction that is exactly what it is.

It only comes off as "forced" to you because it takes you out of your fragile little straights-only safe space.

Most people do not give a shit.

>>88582102
>BORN TO SUCK DICK
The character was introduced, undermined possible preconceptions from the audience and established himself in one page. Did everything he needed to get over in a brief and novel way, while literally lecturing the other characters. You can't get that kind of writing from professionals, and that says more about them than anything else.

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>>88579469
Anon do you talk to people?

Shit pops up all the time with both friends and coworkers. Not 24/7 but it does happen.

If somethings a facet of your life and other people's lives then there's a good chance it's gonna be talked about.

>>88582195
>Most people will go into the "So Brave" spiel when prompted to talk about such characters
fix'd

>>88582073

/ztg/

what is this, new mlp?!

>>88578758
Simple...don't get people like Judd Winick to write it.

>>88578758
Depends on who's watching.

I'll agree that in some situations, it really is forced (Remember Jean Grey turning Iceman gay? Wish I didn't), but most of the time, it's just that people are uncomfortable with gay shit and don't want to introspect on why it makes them uncomfortable.

Add into that how people on 4chan tend to dislike seeing romance in general, you've got a dysfunction stew that's gonna give you dyslexia of the emotional intelligence.

>>88578758

9/10 times, when I see /co/ complaining about a gay character feeling 'forced' the character doesn't feel fucking forced at all

There are definitely times when the shit feels forced but you guys are so hypersensitive to it that you'll just declare any gay character as 'forced', therefore making you wonder if there's any possible way to have any gay character

>>88578758
Technically no because there will be at least one faggot going on how it is oppression and genocide no matter how well done it is.

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>>88581920
still forced

>>88578758
Yes

Don't focus your whole story around them
Don't give a reason like "I wanted to see more representation" Just say that you wanted two gay characters and that was it

Write good characters first, then add in the gay but make sure the fact that they are gay doesn't throw the whole story into a shit show

Ankama's Dofus series did this well.

>>88581624
>After Suicide Squad we'll probably be getting a lot more Joker and Harley

Nah. It's been confirmed that the Gotham City Sirens movie will just basically be the Harley x Ivy Movie

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Yes.

The trick is to make them act like normal people, and not the skinny jean wearing ponces you see in real life.

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>>88578774
Noice

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>>88583834
Dirk at least tries to act like it's not a huge to-do that he's into dudes. His homosex really only stands out when the characters around him are doing their stupid romantic drama.

>>88581517
Small signs? It was picking at crumbs at best.

One compliment about her hair and an episode together in the desert is hardly good foundations for a relationship.

>>88581676
It makes me wonder how people would've reacted if it had been Roadhog or Winston or Zarya or Reaper that was revealed as Gay?

People can't call any of them Fapbait. And it would probably be a much BIGGER risk of showing that in a Male Dominated Audience

>>88584106
Honestly i think it would have been more positive.

>>88584106
The truth is that minorities are not being represented because the world is becoming more accepting and open-minded. They're being represented because the world has become more politically correct.

It's just sad because the two scenarios are mutually exclusive

>>88578758
show, don't tell.
This rule has more than one use. If you have to tell the audience that a character is gay, vegan, christian, conservative, evil, then you are doing it wrong.

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>>88578758
>Is there any possible way to make a gay character who doesn't come off as completely forced?
Yeah like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz50hqWrHUY

>>88584291
the question is do you force diversity to inspire natural harmony? Personally, Id rather that then showcasing hatred

>>88578872
The police cheif from flash. I had no idea he was gay until you saw his boyfriend

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Shore Leave is probably the gayest cartoon character of the past 10 years and he doesn't come off as forced or grating.

Venture Bros. writers are amazing.

>>88581121
>>88581056
>>88581027
>>88580933
>>88580250
>>88578910
The only ones who get it right, before I stopped reading this bitchy joke of a thread.
Though I don't know about the ff15 cast since I haven't played it, so I'll exclude that part of >>88581279's post, which is mostly right.

Any piece of shit that can honestly tell anyone that Bobby Drake wasn't completely forced, or that Gus and Wally were forced, either should take a long look at their lives, or are just baiting.

I'm guessing the latter.

>>88584487
how do you feel about these two >>88584481

rosemary

I feel like the only way /co/ would ever be satisfied with a gay character is if they randomly said "I'm gay" for no reason in the middle of the story and no one acknowledged it or responded to it and it's never ever mentioned again.

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>>88578758
Do the exact opposite of this

>>88584570

i want a gay character that randomly and casually mentions how much he fancies sucking a dick and fucking man ass in his daily business.

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>>88584608
You already had one of those.

>>88584570
Honestly, yes. Being gay isn't an identity, it's not this all-empowering thing that should be front and center so trying to shove it down our throats as "SEE HE'S GAY AREN'T WE SO FUCKING PROGRESSIVE?!" is the root of the goddamn problem.

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>>88584570
Gay characters are only good if they're sluts. At the end of they day, they're only there to draw in degenerates anyway.

If they aren't sucking at least 2 dicks on every page, they're not good characters.

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>>88584570
>I feel like the only way /co/ would ever be satisfied with a gay character is if they randomly said "I'm a cute trap with a feminine penis" for sexual reason in the middle of the story and every one acknowledged it or responded to it and hairy, muscular men take turns pounding him against a furniture.
FTFY

>>88578758
Fallout New Vegas did it pretty well with Arcade Gannon and Veronica, mainly because them being gay was a tiny insignificant detail that was hardly ever brought up because there was a shitton more characterization and backstory to them than "I'm here for diversity points"

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>>88578758

No because sex-starved closeted white boys are always desperate.

Thankfully, the more lesbians, the more annoyance. And there are plenty of cartoon lesbians now, yours included

>>88584869
> that was hardly ever brought up

I love them both, but come on. They were romanceable characters, their sexualities were a big deal.

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>>88579165

Ah, so you're a closeted idiot

>>88584047
But he's a shit character so I don't want it to count.

>>88584962
I mean it's brought up if you pursue it with certain perks, but Gannon initially only has like one line that implies he's gay if you're not specifically going for romance.

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>>88581901

>conveniently ignoring LGBT staitsics are highly unreliable

Under your logic, the 2012 census that a third of Israel's male population is bisexual should matter.

But no, conservatards sosciopaths cherry pick reality

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>>88579438
how horrifying

>>88585078

if anything, the stastics are even lower.

don't kid yourself.

>>88585078
hmm should we listen to an accredited survey from the National Health Institute or should we believe some faggot's shitpost on 4chan?

tough choice

>>88578758
Yes.

But Marvel, DC, or Hollywood will never know how.

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>>88585078
>The statistics don't line up with my worldview, therefore they are wrong

>>88578758
yeah just do lesbians. It's super safe because men can fap to it still.

>>88578758
Write a romance or erotic story, don't shove sexuality into action-adventure.

>>88585228
>>88585153

not that anon, but surveys regarding identity are bound to be imprecise because of a variety of reaons, such as those cited in: http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-demographics-studies/how-many-people-are-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender/

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>>88585228
>blindly following recaps of scientific studies from news outlets to begin with
>doubling down on that stupidity by trusting social sciences, the softest, most politically sensitive and poorly criticized of sciences
>right in the middle of a reproducability crisis and an influx of graduates with a shit grasp on practical statistical analysis

shiggy diggy

>>88579534
I disagree. I think the only way it could have been more forced was if Singh looked directly at the camera and winked as he mentioned his husband. I think its it's better to portray gayness (or hell, relationships in general) through a characters actions and mannerisms. Flash has a big problem with that. The characters talk more about how they feel about their S/O's than having moments with them. IrisxBarry feels empty as fuck and it was laughable when Caitlyn confronted Iris about how she "looks at" Barry when she treated him like a little brother all season. Barry had better chemistry with literally every other girl on the show, but they never date because the writers haven't told us through dialogue that they can date. fuck iris .

>>88584106
>Reaper
That would have opened a whole different can of worms.

>>88582158
well yes because fiction is by nature "forced"

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>>88585356
Experimenting doesn't = being gay. I might find myself attracted to some female characters/models, but that doesn't make me a flaming dyke. I would've said yes to that survey about some samesex attraction too.

If you think 10-13% of the pop. is gay you're crazy. Surveys are never exactly precise, but ya'll are nuts.

>>88584307
That would make sense if we didn't have a legion of shippers screaming PROOF everytime a character interacted with another.

just write a good character goddammit


being gay, trans, from Mars, whatever comes after

>>88585574
Not really, no. I'm sure you've got some bullshit all-encompassing definition of forced that makes it so useless that virtually everything on the face of the earth would come off as grounded and easy to accept by default, but fiction is not inherently forced. Don't drag every storyteller down to the level of hacks just to spite some stranger on the internet.

>>88585743
>fiction is not inherently forced

neither are gay characters

>>88578758
>Make
Yes. They just like the peens from the get-go.
>Change a straight character
Most likely no.
Mind control?
Reality altering? ("hail hard-ons." -captain americuck)
Jean JUST knowing?
All seems forced.

>>88579303
no it is pandering because months ago Blizz was asked if they would add a gay character to Overwatch and the reply was "yeah I guess we could do that gotta show diversity"

>>88585830
wasn't the reply "there IS a gay character, we won't say which one [yet]" and not what you're imp lying

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>>88585637
>Experimenting doesn't = being gay. I might find myself attracted to some female characters/models, but that doesn't make me a flaming dyke.

>implying that can't just be handwaved away as repression/social ineria
>implying a slogan like "over 10% of the natiob is gay, get over it" isn't worth bs'ing the interpretation of the results
>implying there aren't people who are in love with the idea of being a little bi for brownie points
>implying we haven't looped so far around the maypole that people would sooner point to the stats than listen to someone when they say they're straight

Sorry, I just had to get all those meme arrows out of my system.

>>88585795
No, they aren't. That's what makes this shit so frustrating. But when forced attempts get the same benefit of the doubt and protection as attempts that aren't - and note that I'm not saying "good attempts", because even the ones that avoid reeking of smugness, savvy or oscar bait can still be done poorly - I can't blame anyone for assuming that it's all garbage.

Garbage like the state of this pizzs in capcha, jesus christ it's literally sauce on a paper plate why aren't I using legacy

>>88578758
Not in this current climate, as its always done by people who either want to force their LGBTQ agenda (which ALWAYS carries more than just 'let them be', always) or cowards who do it for brownie points to look like they are part of the 'good' people.

>>88586077
then what makes a gay character forced or not

i mean this started because you said in response to "a gay character simply existing is 'forced'" is that it is so

>>88579507
I just see that, usually, relationships in shows are forced in general as Love is hard to show the audience. We are just used to male/female love so it is hard to make that easily questionable.
Some shows can do it well, like Bojack; but only because they allow you to see the cracks and depth of love.
Some shows can even fuck up hetero couples by providing terrible reasons for why the feelings exist or why one puts up with the other, like many animu.

>>88585153

>posting outdated statistics
>not doing research to see I'm correct or not

I'm glad conservatards are basically sheep

>>88585228

Hypocrisy incarnate

>>88585512

Love desperate anti-intellectuals

>>88578758
Make all of them gay.
The main character, the friend, the comic relief, the villain, the love interest. All of them, gay.

The problem is that its bad writing always done for the purpose of furthering an agenda. LGBTQPXYZwhatever+ are rarely, if ever written as people (same for any 'minority' character) or interesting characters. They are written with the express purpose of putting in a gay/black/woman character and take a stance on political issues and them being a character, a person, is secondary at best. They are written as in-your-face statement of how such ideological positions are sacrosaint, unquestionnable and if you even vaguely disagree you are a bad/evil person whose opinon must be discarded immediately.

These characters are placed on a pedestal as part of some protected class, there to be nothing more nor nothing less than a propaganda-spouting mouthpiece. They aren't allowed to be fully-fleshed out characters nor relatable to anyone but other big-city-college-educated-hipsters. They are empty souless shell at best or despicable, hateful ideologues at worst. But at no point are they ever coming off as people.

To be people would require them to have flaws, but also nuance. However in our current era, giving flaws to these token characters is seen as discriminatory. Somehow, we are at the point where the good and right thing to do is to make blatant, souless caricatures rather than fully-fleshed individuals. And when that fail, they take established characters and make them gay rather than create their own. Because these people are talentless hack more interested in their political message than making art or entertainement which is remotely good. The 'message' and 'narrative' has superceded the story and craft. The story and characters are now seen as secondary to the message, which make it come off as utterly hamfisted.

>>88584774
>the story progresses as normal
>every shot is either him sucking a dick while listening to the conversation or him putting a dick down so he can speak
>there's always a dick off-screen available
>nobody brings it up
I'd read a one-shot of that