what are the most eye-rolling romances in comics/cartoons?

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It wasn't that bad
Now this was bad

>>88577358
wasnt that really popular?

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>>88577358
And this was unspeakable
>>88577363
There's no accounting for bad taste

>>88577278
No. Starcrossed was easily one of the best episodes of the DCAU.

>>88577278

You're just bummed because 'muh racemixing propaganda'

>>88577278
It would have tolerable if they didn't show Carter, what was the point of that.

>>88577278
Nah fuck you, that one was cute.

>>88577278
>palcomix-tier
I don't see both of them wearing a diaper or into tickling

>>88577278
It was pretty great desu. It grew organically so it didn't come randomly out of nowhere and it was arguably an important plot point for season 1's overarching story.

>>88577358
This was okay I guess, but it didn't seem to really go anywhere.

>>88577414
To emphasize she'd been BLACKED

>>88577414
If you're way into the Hawks from the comics, I can see why Hawkgirl's story would irk you, since it uses the canon very very loosely, and pretty much tosses Hawkman aside completely aside from that one easter egg nod.

It's kind of annoying because the story of the Hawks is so convoluted, they could have opted to go with any of the past canon backstories, but instead they went with a mishmash of an already mishmashed history.

>>88577278
As a youngling who had absolutely no prior knowledge of Justice League or Superman outside of the cartoon I fucking loved them. I loved Hawkgirl and shipped them hard.

>>88577358
>>88577378

What was so bad about BM/WW?

Batman cared for Wonder Woman but hid his feelings, which would create hilarious moments because he would act embarrassed when caught and others would poke fun of the situation.
Wonder Woman cared for Batman, but would be either regal or upfront about.
And their interactions was entertaining because they were both stubborn and had great banter.

The bets part about it, though, is that it never really went anywhere. It was just teasing to make Batman lose his stoicism.

>>88577496

The Green Lantern/Hawkgirl romance went into the shitter once they started with the "pawn of destiny" nonsense and introduced Vixen and Carter to be cucks.

>>88577378

Now this is a shit-show.

Will DC ever do SM/WW right?

The only stories that i can see as okay with this pairing is JLA: A League of One and DC: The New Frontier, but even then i don't know if these stories count.

>>88577358

...but nothing happened?

>>88577665

If something had happened, it would've ruined.

>>88577561
>Batman cared for Wonder Woman but hid his feelings, which would create hilarious moments because he would act embarrassed when caught and others would poke fun of the situation.
That. That's why. It was cheesy and eyerolling. Like an anime tsundere romance but reversed

>>88577719

If there's someone who can be tsundere, that is Batman.

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>>88577640
>Will DC ever do SM/WW right?
No.

>>88577746
Tsundere is nothing anyone should ever be

>>88577278

It was stupid and spit in the face of Hawkwoman and Hawkman, all so McDuffie's self-insert could get him some white tail.

>>88577640
It was done pretty well in Kingdom Come

>>88577756

I'm not a shipper, so every ship is alright by me. I think there's potential to do something interesting with SM/WW, but DC seems fucking incapable of doing it. I don't know why.

People say because they look like brothers, but that's bull.

>>88577776
cuck

>>88577595
>The Green Lantern/Hawkgirl romance went into the shitter once they started with the "pawn of destiny" nonsense

Really? I don't remember that at all. Though it's been a while. What was that about? As for the other people, they weren't set up to be "cucks", they were there because GL and HG broke up due to the whole Thanagarian invasion betrayal thing. You think superheroes shouldn't date on the rebound?

>>88577719
Everybody love this kind of thing.

>>88577784

No, it wasn't. Kingdom Come is a pretty comic and there are some nice concepts there, but SM/WW portion of the comic is horrible.

>>88577496
I mean didn't they basically give Jon aspects of Hawkman like his connection to shayera from a past life and the inevitability of their being together in the future.

>>88577719
That's what Batman is, a Tsundere.
Hell he fits one the most common stereotypes for tsunderes:
>rich
>emotionally damaged
>tries to mask his feelings
>puts on an angry violent facade and tends to hit people
>i-it's not like I like you or anything, Wonder Woman senpai

>>88577768

Tsundere Batman is best Batman.

I like my Batman who cares deeply for the people around and try to do nice things for them, but do it in a very convoluted and messed up way all so people won't figure out his keikaku and be aware that he's deep down actually a big softy.

>>88577278
>Starfire x Robin
>Kim x Ron
>Sam x Danny
>Korra x Anyone
>Katara x Aang
>Any romance where the bland boring main character gets with the bland boring best friend
>Peanut Butter x Jelly

>>88577787
They have more or less the same personality. In reality, this would mean they have good compatibility, but in fiction it just makes for a boring romance. So they try to spice it up, which inevitably leads to one of them needing to be warped, and it's probably going to be Diana. There's also the issue that it will never, ever stick because Superman must be with Lois or the multiverse will implode or something.

>>88577792

Batman and Green Lantern went to the future to catch Cronus and there Green Lantern learned he'd have a son with Hawkgirl who'd end up becoming a hero called Warhawk.

When Batman and Green Lantern came back, Green Lanter decided to he wouldn't let himself be a pawn to destiny, he'd make his own future, which meant staying far away from Hawkgirl and never pumping her with a baby.

>>88577848
>kim x ron
what? that was one of the most anticipate ones

>>88577892
Does he realize the future was simply a result of his actions and that if he went to the future again he'd see no Warhawk?

>Green Lanterns in charge of thinking

>>88577848

>Starfire x Robin

The fuck? Robin x Starfire is extremely superior to Robin x Batgirl.

>>88577842
>>88577844
Playing up emotional stunting for comedic value does not amuse me. Even if it is appropriate for Bruce I will cringe every time it is done, because tsundere by it's nature is terrible. It's not cute, funny or appealing in any way to me

>>88577912
That entirely depends on the nature of time, destiny and all that mystical shit

>>88577776
>white

>>88577912

Shit was stupid and made no sense, specially because Cronus had messed up the time-stream by changing so much things basically making the future corrupted. Things were disappearing and shit. There's a moment where John Stewart transforms himself into Hal Jordan.

So Green Lantern refusing to patch things up with Hawkgirl despite clearly liking her still was dumb as hell. Just created unnecessary drama and made the character look bone-headed.

>>88577920
He should've been with Raven

>>88577924

>It's not cute, funny or appealing in any way to me

I disagree. Seeing people making an ass of themselves because they can function like grown-up human beings is funny as hell. Other's embarrassment is everybody's amusement.

>>88577906
>anticipated
Not from what I remember. I remember people wondering why they weren't together at an earlier point because of how obvious it was that they would hook up. There was platonic friendship in the show the entire time and both of them had their own romances.

>>88577892
I decided to read the comics to find out how they eventually get together. Hawkgirl becomes the rebound girl after the Shadow Thief kills Vixen and he gets kicked out of the Corps for killing Shadow Thief.

Man those comics were weird.

>>88577924
Well I like it, specially if this leads to development.

>>88577358
>>88577378
Yuck.

>>88577640
I'd rather they don't. If they actually make it work (which is possible with decent writing) people might start to like this pairing. And that's no good!

>>88578004

Those comics were terrible. They couldn't decide if they took place in the main canon or in the DCAU canon. They were references to Hush and Batman, Inc, things that never existed in the DCAU.

>>88577997
I guess we remember things differently, since not one of my friends were against it, and most of them liked it

on the other hand, we are probably friends with people of similar taste

>>88577970
I agree also Beastboy's personality meshes a whole lot better with Starfire.

>>88577968

Well if it makes you feel better, in Beyond-verse he gets back with Shayera about a week after his wife, Vixen, dies and they live happily ever after. In the same story it was also shown that Hawkman lived a miserable and lonely existence until he was painfully executed unceremoniously.

>>88577278
How was that in any way bad?

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>>88577924
Good thing it's a cartoon no? The original JL cartoon was nothing serious nor tried to be.

>>88577994
>Other's embarrassment is everybody's amusement.
Ah, I see. So you've never experienced second-hand embarrassment?

>>88578036
That's fucked up on so many levels

>>88577278
>palcomix
Time for a nostalgic fap

>>88578033
Nuh-uh, compatibility in fiction means everyone's obsessed with their polar opposite

>>88578072
This is a cartoon. Who fucking cares? Same goes for any movie or book too.

>>88578109
it's worth noting that people with the same personalities getting together, while more likely, is also unlikely to cause change in a person

this means that opposites getting together, though more unlikely, also more believably drives the need to change and develop, which is a much better thing to portray on screen

>>88578036
>Fucks another chick
>Moves on in one week
>Hawkbro cucked

Not even Guy would do this.

>>88577856

The fucked up thing about the SM/WW pairing is that DC represent it as a sorta of response to SM/LL. It's like the Superman Red and Superman Blue thing, where one goes with Lois Lane and the other with Lana Lang.

But in the case of SM/WW, you've a choice between Clark Kent and Superman.

If Superman/Clark Kent choose Lois Lane, he's choosing the Clark Kent route. Where he'll be more Clark than Superman, will marry Lois, work at the Daily Planet and so on. Lois even calls him "Smallville" to drive the point home.
If Superman/Clark Kent choose Wonder Woman, he's choosing the Superman route. Where he'll be pretty much Superman, will have super-sex with Wonder Woman, defend the planet alongside the Justice League. Likewise Wonder Woman calls him by "Kal".

That's how DC plays the whole thing. As if to be with Wonder Woman, Clark needs to die. Then they push the whole "world inside a bottle" bullshit.

>>88578149
A good writer could do something like make them see their flaws mirrored.

>>88578072
>second hand embarrassment from a cartoon character
Lel go to sleep nigga

>>88578176
a good writer could do anything

and personally i dont favor one over the other, but it is easy to see why people are more receptive to one

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>>88578092
>palcomix
>nostalgic

>>88578137
>>88578149

The whole opposite attract trope is for story-telling purpose. To create a story about a couple you need characters that will add things to the dynamic. Two characters alike being together add shit to the story. What you can do with one, you can do with both, so why make a story about two characters that are alike?

>>88578176

Yeah, the characters will see their flaws mirrored, but what then? What can come out of it? The characters won't have any answer that the other already know or new point view because they're both in the same situation.

The whole thing won't evolve beyond "I know that feel, bro".

>>88577358
I'm not gonna call it subtle, but compared to the GL/HG in your face literally every time they interact groan inducing relationship, BM/WW was nowhere near as annoying. One was cheesy fanfic tier dialogue and the other was simple flirting

>>88577808
Oh right, I remember that. Yeah that shit was stupid.

All of it.
The only believable romance is where both parties are unlikable abusive shitbags.

>>88578237
Maybe they can reflect on it like normal human beings with brains and actually make an attempt to change, you don't need someone to give you all the answers.

>>88578265

Nightwing/Batgirl then?

>>88577278
dude cuckolding

>>88578137
>>88578181
Why does that even make a difference? If it's human enough to empathize with it's going to trigger the same responses. If it isn't then what's even the point of watching? I just don't like tsundere, and I guess I'm in the minority that doesn't get a hearty chuckle out of stunted manbabies spilling their spaghetti

>>88578265
>>88578280
Harley Quinn and Oracle.

>>88578270
>arguing about archetypes
you might as well complain your hammer isnt screwing in nails

>>88578265
Is there something you want to talk about anon?

>>88578320
Uwot mate.
You can learn and make an attempt to change by observing your flaws reflected in others, in fact it's common for people to not even perceive sonething as a problem until they see someone else do it/deal with consequences.
And the solutions don't need to be handed to you, in fact the struggle to find a way to change is often as interesting as the struggle to change.

I think you need to spend more time around people and less time around unidimensional cartoon projections of people.

>>88578311
>Why does that even make a difference? If it's human enough to empathize with it's going to trigger the same responses.

Dude, its like complaining that Tom&Jerry are too mean.

>>88578357
Jerry IS too mean

>>88578270

We're not talking about real people, but stories, anon.

Sure, you have a couple that face the same issues and once they see they're in the same situation they make a pact to change. Here's the problem, though: they're alike and face the same problems. So you only have one story up your sleeve to tell with both.

It's very limiting.

Now when characters are different and go through different problems, one can add a new perspective to the other's problems, and you can explore more than one story with them.

Take any great pairing, romantic or not. The characters are usually different. The crazy white cop, bad stoic cop kinda thing. Or uptight Cyclops and unruly Wolverine. Or the cheerful and charming Superman and the grumpy and creepy Batman.

>>88578356
Now I want to see you turn it into a story entertaining.

>>88578357
but Jerry IS an asshole

>>88577756
>middle pic is new52 in a nutshell

Moore may be a hack, but at least he got this right.

>>88578356
my point being that the both of them are valid forms of character, limited only by how you use them

it is just that most people prefer the dynamic of one over the other, this does not invalidate the other

>>88578356

See, the problem is that the way you're describing things you're pretty much telling the story of a single guy or girl facing her problems alone.

But we're talking about a 1+1 dynamic. So yes, we need characters lending each other things they can't get alone and doing things together.

>>88578237
The biggest hurdle most people have in dealing with their flaws is that they never realize what they are. An outside perspective makes things much clearer than stumbling around on your own, thus progress can actually be made.
And having someone to go "I know that feel" with is a pretty big goal for us humans. Companionship and all that.

>>88577848
Peanut Butter and Jelly were childhood friends so I was glad when they got together. It was sweet.

>>88578438
>So yes, we need characters lending each other things they can't get alone and doing things together.
Like...perspective?

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>>88578368
>>88578380
But you prefer the cartoons where they shit on each other or the ones where they talk and are friends and have same personality and goals?

>>88578447
Peanut Butter and Jelly is disgusting and never belonged together. Fuck everyone who's ever shipped them. Peanut Butter belongs with Peanut Butter and Jelly with Jelly. Fuck this condiment mixing garbage.

>>88578370
I understand that the contrast is important for the reasons you mentioned, my point is simply that it doesn't have to be bad.
I mean, would it be impossible to do it well? I don't see anything that really proves that, other than the issues levied before, but even those are just bumps for someone who knows what they are doing.

>>88578376
I'm not nearly skilled enough.
I'm just saying it's not really an impediment to making a good story that has character development come outta the romance.

>>88578033
Beast Boy was a straight up annoying ass towards Raven 99% of the time in the cartoon, and not in a flirtatious or intentionally riling up/joke-y way, in a "I'm fucking dumb and obnoxious as shit and completely unaware of my own behaviour and I don't like this miserable emo kid" way. BBRae fags always talk about them 'completing' each other but fuck, Robin did a much better job in getting Raven to soften up and isn't borderline retarded.

>>88578488
Is this some kind of trick question? The latter clearly

>>88577278
Everything Young Justice. Seriously like everybody needs to pair up with somebody just because. You would think Batman would give some advice against dating your teammates.

>>88578455

Yes, new perspective. Fresh eyes.

For example imagine if Superman and Batman were alike. Two kryptinian brothers that share the same background and the same kind of way of thinking.

Imagine of fucking boring their adventures would be.

We don't want to see two characters agreeing with each other all the time and doing things the same way and being content in being in each other's company. That might make a super in tune couple, but makes a boring story.

>>88578438
The cool thing is that you can mirror the issue and then show them diverge in how they deal with it.
Then again I'm just parroting the words of an actual writer.

>>88577517
Same here. I know the feeling.

>>88578488
I prefer when it isn't a one-sided Tom-bashing torture porno

>>88578517

>You would think Batman would give some advice against dating your teammates.

Nigga, he's Batman. He doesn't know shit about normal teenage social behavior.

>>88578519
>Perspective meaning we need to constrast and have people learn only from their opposites, because that is the only path to fun storytelling.

>>88578522
this means that they are alike in some way, and yet different in others
this comes back to the fact that opposites only begin attracting after reaching common ground, while people of similar nature generate interest by comparing differences
meaning we have created a false dichotomy of one or the other, when in fact both are required, only by synthesis of these antithesis can a complex character be formed

>>88578557
But he knows about building a team.

>>88578511
>Beast Boy was a straight up annoying ass
Cause he was childish comedic relief, that's literally what he is in the show.

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>>88578519
>Implying the adventures of two superbros wouldn't be awesome as shit
I just don't understand you people

>>88578585

For stealth missions.

>>88578491
Wow bigot much? Usually I'm against race mixing but this pairing didn't feel forced. Now if Peanut Butter and Banana were shipped...ugh. I can't even think about that.

>>88578599

But then kryptonian Batman won't be tsundere to Superman.

All of them are shit

>>88578572
That's true, but the point is that you don't -need- to have "opposites" for a good romance. That's just it.
Similarities aren't a dead end in writing, like you just pointed out.

I mean, I'm not defending characters fuck their clones or something

>>88578633
Tsundere is a blight

>>88578614
Yeah the Justice League saves the world in secret.

>>88577994
I just find it annoying and a waste of time. Just get to the point already.

>>88578488
I prefer the ones where they are BOTH assholes trying to ruin each other's life. That way, it's more like a genuine fight between two adversaries and less like one-sided abuse.

>>88578652

What point?

There's no point in seeing someone fall and get hurt in an embarrassing way or spill the spaghetti in front of others. Shit is just amusing.

>>88578633
I much prefer the stories where They've already worked through Bruce's emotional damage and Clark is one of the few people he's openly caring towards

>>88577278
Lapidot

>>88578036
>>88578080
>>88578161
Timm and Dini were hacks, I've said this before and I'll say it again. It would be even worse if they were given free, unreigned control. Their content is only tolerable when they're held back.

>>88578688

You like the secret homolust, huh? Like Batman is only super sweet with Superman, nobody else, and Superman is all giddy about having Batman all to himself..

>>88578680
>There's no point in seeing someone fall and get hurt in an embarrassing way
Yeah that's what I mean. It doesn't add anything so it shouldn't be there in the first place.

>>88578491
>>88578619
1. Bigot much?
2. You clearly don't see the perfect combination of Peanut Butter and Marshmallow Fluff.

>>88578702

Dude, you're blaming Bruce Timm and Paul Dini about a digital tie-in comic that neither wrote and would constantly get facts from the cartoons wrong.

Chill out.

>>88578680
But it isn't unless you're a sociopath

>>88578737
No it's amusing, hell I'd say it's cute.
Batman is CUTE.

>>88578737

If you don't laugh when people get hurt in hilarious ways, then YOU're the sociopath here.

>>88578511
I think you're projecting, Beast boy and Raven had way more chemistry and their relationship has an arc while Raven and Robin interactions are bland and never felt genuine.

>>88578641

>Similarities aren't a dead end in writing

They kinda land to a boring dynamic.

>>88578737
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndiej7qmXiU

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>>88578801
>mfw
This is Family Guy-tier.

>>88578713
I think of it more like a Nite Owl/Rorschach style scenario. Supes is just being the typical nice guy to everyone he usually is and Bats just gets way too attached to people who are genuinely kind-hearted.

So yeah, I guess I could live with secret homolust

>>88578793
>They kinda land to a boring dynamic.
Name at least 7 instances where this is true.

>>88578561
>people learn only from their opposites

Not really.

But on classes about writting they teach you that contrasting personalities is one of the fundamental and best ways to expose characterization.

>>88578801
Complete sociopath

>>88578838

I'm kinda drawing a blanket here because it's hard to think of a duo where both characters were alike.

>>88578793
Only if poorly presented.

>>88578863

It was funny. Come on.

>>88578851
You mean easiest ways, easy and best aren't necessarily equivalent.

>>88578878

OK, tell me a good duo of characters where both were similar.

>>88578838
Not him, but here are 3:
Superman/Wonder Woman
Snyder Superman/Snyder Batman
>>88578488

>>88578922
You and patrick bateman.

>>88578901

Pretty much all the best and most memorable duos were of characters that contrasted each other.

>>88578874
Alright I'll let you finish drawing that blanket, but I want that posted along side the 7 examples.

>>88578922
>>88578941
Him and Chris-Chan.

>>88578838
I don't even think there are that many instances of it being used

>>88578941

I'm not a goddamn sociopath.

>>88578591
That's something that I always wondered.
>Is beast boy supposed to be funny?
He tells shitty kid jokes but it's a kid's cartoon so maybe that was the humor of the show?

>>88578733
My fault, it sounded like something from the show. It's been a while since I've seen it. It seemed consistent with something they'd do, considering their treatment of old Bruce and the weird shipping fetish they have.

>>88578937
>Superman/Wonder Woman
But they played up the differences in that. Wondy was a crazy warrior bitch that didn't understand the concept of being normal and the relationship eventually failed because of their differences

>>88578979

>considering their treatment of old Bruce

Old Bruce is best Bruce.

>>88578893
There are funny ways to fall on ice. That was not one such way, yet the absurd laughter that came after was pretty funny.

>>88578944
That's because it's the easiest route to achieving something decent or better.
I'm saying it's not the only one, and hell, it's better to have more depth than that (like some anon pointed out earlier of when the characters aren't just made of contrasting traits and there is a common ground).
I'm not saying it's easy, just that it's viable.

>>88578979
I only accept the Timm/Dini version of Old Bruce as canon. BrucexLoneliness is my OTP

The only examples of good duos of similar characters i can think of is when they try to show those weird twins that do everything the same and speak at the same time, but then these type of characters are kinda of two acting as one.

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>>88578793
The key is to give the pairing something to do AFTER they've gotten together. Which is something most shippers -- or even the writers building up to that pairing, for instance -- fail to come up with; even Polar-Opposite Couples suffer from this, since the writer's/shipper's answer is almost always one of two: The two continue to get on each other's nerves forever, no change, no variations, their relationship is character-wise just an informed attribute; or, they """""grow as people""""", which invariably means that they eventually cancel out each other's defining traits, just like mixing white and black in bucket gives you gray, and they become plain and desaturated, which is turn what the Similar Couple was criticized for in the first place.

Like I said, most of the shortcomings in romance in fiction spring from the author's shortsightedness - their inability to think beyond the "getting-there".

>>88578204
>What you can do with one, you can do with both, so why make a story about two characters that are alike?

To show that being similar is actually a good thing that should be emulated? That they can do things in a better and more efficient way by working together? I'd also love to see some happiness for once, as opposed to constant conflict because "muh opposites." Plus it could be fun to see them be different in some mundane way, like different ice cream or movie tastes.

>>88579048
But that's just two characters who are the exact same.

>>88579017

Are you now an expert on falling on ice?

>>88578511
I always felt that Cyborg had more chemistry with Raven(see the episode where his car got stolen) than Beast Boy in the cartoon.

>implying that wasn't a good romance
>implying good romance shouldn't have a touch of cheesiness and be a little saccharine
Go back to twilight and your anime you 12 year old fujoshit

>>88578993
>>88579042
BrucexJustice is the best but his partners shouldn't get butthurt and leave. That's just unfair. I like Terry but still.

>>88579060

>To show that being similar is actually a good thing that should be emulated?

Are you a fucking communist?

>>88579069
Nigga I've been falling on ice since before I could walk

>>88579057
>1. Similar couple shows interest in each other
>2. See each others' flaws reflected
>3. Each chooses their own path to solving their problems
>4. Still like each other
There you ended with a net gain of diversity in character traits rather than having different characters fix their flaws by taking lessons from positive traits of their counterpart.

>>88578729
>Peanut Butter and Marshmallow Fluff.
Crack ship.

>>88579089
I don't think he means "the exact same".

>>88579089
I mean in pairings not in society, dummy.

>>88579122

>1. Similar couple shows interest in each other
>2. See each others' flaws reflected
>3. Each chooses their own path to solving their problems
>3.5 They're now slightly different after their adventure
>4. Still like each other

You dun goofed.

>>88579177
Well I thought it was implied.

>>88579148
Wouldn't that mean everyone had the same job? I don't think even communists believe that. They're all the same in that they're all worthless and should give up their lives for the (((greater good))).

>>88579085

Justice is a demanding lady.

>>88579200
Yeah but she's so hot.

>tfw no blind gf that needs my guidance

>>88579197

Yeah, but now we go back to the "contrast is good".

You took two characters that were similar and set them in opposing adventures to make them grow into different people that aren't similar anymore. Now they contrast each other and have new pespectives that differ from one another, new things to add to the relationship

>>88579198
I could see a society where everyone has the same job.

>>88577962
McDuffie hated Hawkman because he's a white conservative spacecop, what better way to revenge himself upon him than steal his woman?

>>88579252
As opposed to the arc you had proposed where opposing people learn from each others solutions to life and become more similar?
Ishygddt

>>88579060

>That they can do things in a better and more efficient way by working together?

Two guys that do the same shit the same way will never be more efficient than two guys that have different strengths and thus tackle the problem from different angles.

>>88579252
They would have both overcome their flaws, leading to the same end result (being calmer/more rational/outgoing/whatever) through differing experiences. They would still be similar people.

>>88579330
It depends, they could be a "well oiled machine"
There is a reason why grunts are all taught the same things while pogs suck dick.

>>88579320

>As opposed to the arc you had proposed where opposing people learn from each others solutions to life and become more similar?

No, they learn from each other opposing views and become even more different, because while one might the perspective of the other, he'll approach it through its own way.

>>88579336
That is viable.

>>88579330
Some problems just need more than one person tackling them, nevermind from different angles

>>88579370
Anon, you and I clearly hold opposing views in the matter.
Wanna marry me?

>>88579336

People change with new experiences, anon. Otherwise your characters will go through whole adventures to end at the same point together.

>>88579330
Tell that to Batman and Robin.

>>88579391

Are you asking my hand just for asking or do you really mean it?

>>88579393
They don't need to become drastically different to the point of being blatantly contrasted.

>>88579401

They do things differently. Robin draw the enemies line of fire so that Batman can strike from the safety of the shadows.

>>88579417
Of course I mean it, I would never lie or joke about matters like this.

>>88579393
>People change with new experiences, anon.
Yeah, and they just so happened to change in the same way
>Otherwise your characters will go through whole adventures to end at the same point together.
...Okay? Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

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>>88579435
>robin is a meatshield

>>88579443

>Yeah, and they just so happened to change in the same way

Not if they go though different adventures.

>>88579435
You know it never plays out that way.

>>88579057
What can a writer do after the characters get together, anyway? Fans usually become hooked on situations where the character chemistry has unresolved tension and some ambiguity. Writers seem to have trouble handling happy established couples, and those can frequently appear bland like you said. I've been wondering before how to write a satisfying romance subplot and whether it's possible to keep the fans interested even after the point where the couple becomes official. Do you think there are pairings that managed to pull it off?

>>88579440

But how can you accept me when we are so unlike? I'll end up grating on you and then you'll hate me/!

>>88579440
>>88579417
Anon please say yes. You two were meant to be together.

>>88579472

Always fucking does. He let Damian get fucked by Rose Wilson just so he could get at Deathstroke.

>>88579462
You can learn the same lesson from multiple different experiences anon. Having different adventures doesn't make two people completely disparate individuals

>>88579478
>What can a writer do after the characters get together, anyway?
Depends. If the work is a romance story in the first place, then obviously not much. But if the setting is an adventure story or fantasy or a thriller or something else and the romance is just a side-plot instead of the center, then the most basic approach is showing how would the couple deals with the arching conflict together as opposed to separately.

>>88579479
But what if I hate people like me? Trust me, we have a future together! If only you could see it like I do... But then I'd hate you.

>>88579479
>>88579524
There's only one solution. You both marry me instead.

>>88579495

You're speaking nonsense. Yes, characters can get to the same conclusion by going through different experiences, but they'll still be changed somewhat by those experiences. They'll just have the same understanding about the issue.

Also, what kinda of shitty story are we telling here with a couple? People don't want to see a couple going in different adventures apart from each other, people want to see the couple working together in the same fucking adventure.

>>88579494
By your strategy shouldn't both Rose and Slade gone for Damian, thus allowing Batman to strike at either unawares? If they're just splitting the focus of the enemy group then they are doing the same thing. Both of them are taking on one enemy while the other is distracted fighting their companion

>>88579524
Then you need to see a psychiatrist.

>>88579519
according to my sources after every romance story there is an NTR one

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>>88577278
Webm related, it makes me roll my eyes toward the button and the zip on my tousers...

>>88579559
Honest reply: psychiatrists solution were to medicate me for over a decade and let most of my youth fade into a drug addled oblivion. Fuckit.

>>88579561
I'll believe it.

>>88579519

>But if the setting is an adventure story or fantasy or a thriller or something else and the romance is just a side-plot instead of the center, then the most basic approach is showing how would the couple deals with the arching conflict together as opposed to separately.

See, that's the thing. Having a couple where the characters are too similar and they deal with an arching conflict together is kinda boring because there won't be much to their dynamic.

You NEED contrast. Just not the drama. But contrast is a must.

>>88579545
Anon, harems never work.

>>88579589
And you think you're better than that?

>>88579549

Damian got his ass kidnapped.

Also, Robins are good at dodging shit.

>>88579547
>You're speaking nonsense. Yes, characters can get to the same conclusion by going through different experiences, but they'll still be changed somewhat by those experiences.
How similar are you assuming these people are? They didn't live the same lives. They don't have identical experiences to begin with. They're just have similar personalities. Their lives up to that point have already been going through different experiences to reach the same conclusion

>>88579594
Well if it's a duo, okay, probably.

>>88579609
Then I guess Damian is pretty shit as his end of the job

>>88579606
Yes, medication and trying to mold me didn't work, it arguably made things worse. The only thing that fueled my own change is how much I hate myself and people like me.
But this isn't my personal blog so I should stop ranting.

>>88579594
Unless the couple are the only two characters in the story, then there's still gonna be a contrast. Plus, a duo operating together to solve a major problem can still play on each other's strengths; just because they're similar, it doesn't mean they're literal clones.

>>88579624

It's a rule.

Take the DC's trinity. When Batman is there in the middle, the trinity is fine even if Superman and Wonder Woman are a bit samey. The fun comes in how both deal with Batman's bullshits.

But if you take Batman out? Shiiiiiiit, you get crap SM/WW stories where writers have no idea what to do.

Now take Wonder Woman out and leave Superman and Batman, which have lots of contrast. The World's Finest are fine.

>>88579671
What if you take Superman and Wonder woman out and add Plastic Man

>>88579693

It becomes even better.

>>88579671
When Batman is there Wonder Woman is just ignored or turned into the killy one that everyone is uncomfortable with

When it's just SM/WW Diana is again turned into something different, either again the kill happy one or the weird foreigner who doesn't understand simple life Clark

When it's Superman and Batman, either Clark is made more naive or Bruce is made more antisocial, but people are okay with that so it flies

All I'm really getting from this is that Wonder Woman is a shitty character

>>88579745

>All I'm really getting from this is that Wonder Woman is a shitty character

The bane of every trinity shipping.

>>88577278
Jean Grey and any one.

>>88579788

Was Wonder Woman more killy when paired with Batman was just the usual where Batman turns into an emo faggot that idolizes WW?

>>88579827

Mind-controller teacher's pet/cheerleader is just a fucking toxic characterization. You end up with an overbearing and controlling bitch that gets her way.

>>88579454
>Robin has both higher durability and evasion than Batman
>also has really good rolls

Is there any downside?

>>88579494
>He let Damian get fucked by Rose Wilson
You sure Damian didn't want that? :^)

>>88579594
>You NEED contrast. Just not the drama. But contrast is a must.
Who made you King of Storytelling? If I don't want contrast then I won't do it. And if people like it, what's the problem?

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>>88579840
Usually Batman is made more irrational and/or tsundere

>>88579946
I figure it configures as some sort of child abuse.

>>88579788
Bane?

>>88580016
But if he never gets hit then there's no child abuse.

>>88577378
I legit feel like WW/SM makes way more sense than WW/BM

I mean I'd still prefer Steve for WW, but SM ain't bad.

>>88580045
I do too, I just hate how it was done

>>88580045
>>88580073

Tell me a good SM/WW story.

People generally like BM/WW because of the DCAU and Joe Kelly's JLA. That's it. The characters had good banter and Batman would spell his spaghetti.

But in most SM/WW stories what we get is Wonder Woman being an uncompromising and blood-thirsty bitch or simple a blind follower in Superman's regime.
Not to mention that the basic concept of SM/WW is just to push the most important and powerful characters together. There's no much thought beyond that wish.

>>88578167
You don't get superman at all do you?

Lana wants Clark.

Diana wants Kal/Superman

Lois fell in love with both in every incarnation except for the 50s version. Which for some reason people think is the primary version despite even most TV shows showing thats not the case.

>>88580219

I was talking about the setting. Specially because Lana isn't relevant when it comes to this.

Every time SM/WW get together the Clark Kent persona slowly dies. Superman becomes more Supermanny.
While with Lois you keep that entire Daily Planet, mundane human stuff intact.

>>88577278
I saw this as a kid. I liked it. Too bad Hawkgirl kinda disappeared in JL Unlimited

>>88578167
>>88580219
The trouble is that Clark Kent isn't the real Clake Kent, since he has to hide his true identity. This is especially apparent in the Golden Age, where Lois would like Clark except that he's too much of a coward, which he is because he has to run away so that he can change into Superman. In reality, the only "flaw" Lois sees is a farce. What does this mean, then?

>>88580040
By that logic, you're not technically abusing drugs until you're slapping the bags and yelling at them.

>>88580162
>Not to mention that the basic concept of SM/WW is just to push the most important and powerful characters together.
They have similar personalities. They are similar people just from an emotional standpoint. It makes sense because that's how basic human compatibility works. Even some of the basic characterizations of them them put them as archetypal parental figures. Matching them up is so painfully, stupidly obvious. Why does everyone always jump to the superpowers? I don't get it.

I also don't get the "Wondy only wants the Superman half" thing. Steve Trevor was her first love. The perfectly normal human who's only outstanding traits were bravery and supportiveness. Her suddenly wanting the alien adonis because all his superflexing makes her wet makes absolutely no sense.

Nothing about how people handle SM/WW ever seems organic for how the characters are portrayed separately. They just turn into different people when they get stuck together. It baffles me.

>>88580330

Well, that's part of the love triangle between Superman, Lois Lane and Clark Kent, isn't?

In the classic SM/LL story dynamic Clark is pretty much competing against Superman, himself, for Lois affection Superman becomes the chard stealing the girl. Writers can drag that drama as long as they want until either Lois finds out the truth by herself or Superman/Clark Kent comes clean. It's a popular dynamic.

With SM/WW you don't have much going on for it other than the whole "power corrupts" thing where Wonder Woman start going full Lady Macbeth filling a troubled Superman's head with nonsense or the fucked up love triangle where an insecure and hung up Wonder Woman. stalk and tempt a happily married Superman.

>>88580544

>They have similar personalities. They are similar people just from an emotional standpoint.

Tell me a SM/WW story where that was explored. Writers always make Wonder Woman dumber, louder and angrier so that Superman can correct her or calm her down.

>I also don't get the "Wondy only wants the Superman half" thing. Steve Trevor was her first love. The perfectly normal human who's only outstanding traits were bravery and supportiveness. Her suddenly wanting the alien adonis because all his superflexing makes her wet makes absolutely no sense.

Because that's how most if not all SM/WW start.

Take the George Perez/John Byrne take on it during the start of Post-CoIE.
Wonder Woman had the hots for Superman after seeing him for mere moments during a battle because he looked and had the powers of a Greek God. Then after their botched date she was disappointed in him because he was too mundane and preferred to use his awesome powers to enforce men's values and rules.

And i disagree with you that Superman and Wonder Woman share the same personalities and emotional standpoint.

>>88577358
I forgot how hot Wonder Woman was in Justice League. I can see why it was bad, mostly because Batman's afraid of a lustful woman with the strength of ten men like Diana wanting his dick.

>>88580708
>Tell me a SM/WW story where that was explored. Writers always make Wonder Woman dumber, louder and angrier so that Superman can correct her or calm her down.
That's my point; it never happens. They're always changed to generate some kind of tension. They're never just themselves. Well, at least Wondy is never herself. There has never actually been a SM/WW pairing, just SM/random angry amazon pairing. I just can't wrap my head around the consistency of this character warping. Is it just no one reads WW? Is it that people just like this version better? Is it some kind of unshakeable law of the universe that demands she be written as such whenever the possibly of SM/WW is even suggested?

>>88580896
I thought her hair was stupid

>>88580903

>Is it just no one reads WW? Is it that people just like this version better? Is it some kind of unshakeable law of the universe that demands she be written as such whenever the possibly of SM/WW is even suggested?

Honestly? I don't know.

I think that the editors and writers that push for the pairing do it for very misogynistic reasons. Basically giving Superman the baddass warrior chick that Superman can tame.
That or they change her to create contrast and generate drama. They'd never change Superman, who's the company mascot, running the risk of making him look bad, but Wonder Woman's fair game.

Those are my theories, at least.

>>88580916
I think they were trying to go with the Lynda Carter look, but it doesn't translate well with the Art style that Justice League used.

>>88580544

Post-CoIE Wonder Woman shared a lot more in personality and maturity with Batman than Superman, BUUUT before you go accusing me of being a shipper that's precisely why they'd never work out.

Wonder Woman and Batman both lived for their mission and their role as caretakers of this mission (as Wonder Woman and Batman) which went beyond the mere responsibilities of using their awesome powers (or in Batman's case resources) to help others. It was more than just a job to them, it was a life calling. If world peace had actually been achieved, Wonder Woman would still be at the UN, actively making sure it was preserved, finding ways to improve it and teaching future generations to keep doing better. She wouldn't just retire and go back to her island or settle down in Man's World.

They both had an almost borderline obsessive outlook on the world were they would place their entire self-worth in achieving and preserving their goals. For that they were continuously self-improving themselves and willing to even bend the rules if the means felt justified. Because of all that they would in many ways bury themselves under just as many responsibilities as as possible as well be indisposed to seek for help if they felt people's lives were at risk by reaching out. They were also headstrong and uncompromising as fuck.

An that's why they would never work as a pairing. They're too much alike in personality and would constantly clash with one another. Specially when Wonder Woman isn't above their a life if necessary.

>>88577358
I always thought there relationship was just supposed to be more sexual, with Wonder Woman perhaps pushing for more, to which Bruce, as we all know, is afraid of, therefore pretty much saying no to the whole thing. Hence why he says there was something there once before, but he had to snuff out that candle so he could stay in the dark.

I think it was alright. Would've never made them an actual couple though, but definitely sexually tense with one another. It would ultimately have been better if she moved on to someone else and Bruce, while jealous, just had to fucking deal with it because he promised he'd do nothing more than a few things.

He liked her, sure, but he never went further than that, and for the better.

Because in the end, the only thing that will forever be held dear to Bruce's heart isn't a woman--but the bat.

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I find every single capeshit romance to be eye-rolling.


Especially ones involving female-animal themed characters.

>>88577278
NOPE

John Stewart and Hawk Girl was pretty damn good, one of the best romances in the JLU outside of the Question and Huntress.

Nice try /pol/, caught you in the act

If you're looking for shit romances, try:
>>88577358
>>88577378

Romance doesn't belong anywhere near action, especially with the shit writers we have today.

>>88577561
He cared but he would also treat her like shit and was emotionally stunted.

Wonder Woman also threw herself on tje floor for him and for awhile her whole character (which wasn't developed) became about getting his cock.

Even in the BB comics her whole motivation was Bruce.

>>88578199
To be fair, if you're going to find any of their stuff appealing, it's going to be the original crop.

>>88577278

i've never seen a /co/ woman since then that so thirsty for black cock that even her past life was thirsty for it.

>>88577842
He wasn't tsundere he was emotionally fucked up, he had a thing with Barbara and then after he just ignored her without properly putting an end to their relationship, after The new Adventures of Batman he couldn't hold a romantic relationship with anyone.

Terry even said it in Batmam Neyond, women threw themselves at him and Bruce just walked all over them, Diana being one of them is just insulting to the character then again Dini and Timm never gave much shit about her.

>>88577595
I just love how everyone in this shithole can't look at a typical love triangle story without thinking its some kind of cuck propaganda.

>>88577278
> palcomix-tier romance?
What do you mean by that?