What was so good about old marvel?

>>88437831
It was better than DC at the time.

>>88437853
Why

>>88437911
They didn't give a single shit about Diversity, and it didn't prevent them from having black characters.

>>88437831
They were mostly white and straight

They were caring about their real audience, and they didn't want to make normies, diversity and feminazi read them.

>>88438324
>>88438301
>>88438332

>"I don't read comics": The posts"

Could you /pol/ underages try at least to sound like you know what you were talking about?

>>88438375
Only the xmen was a diversity thing. Marvel had black characters, but they weren't here just because of their skin tone.

>>88438375
Give me my daily (you): the post.

>>88438400
Go ahead and explain to me how Riri and Miles are "diversity" characters but Black Panther and a Falcon aren't.

>>88438332
Then their real audience almost lead them to bankruptcy so they started pandering and got bought out by Disney for $$$

>>88438430
Well for one they're original characters

>>88438454
Miles and Riri are original characters.

>>88438400
What the fuck was the point of Night Thrasher or RAGE, then?

>>88438481
You must be working for them to say that kind of bullshit.

>>88438487
They were never clamed as:

>THE NEW BLACK HERO.
>LOOK AT HIM, HE'S BLACK, WE'RE NOT RACIST
>WE SPOODERMAN NOW

>>88438332
>"Real" audience
>Implying Marvel ever pandered to Conservatards

Marvel has always been liberal and progressive as fuck. You Conservative underages trying to retroactively claim Marvel are just as bad if not worse than the SJWs who do(but at least the SJW have a leg to stand on).

>>88437831
It sounds cliche, but Marvel was slightly more diverse and willing to experiment then DC was for most of the Silver and Bronze Age.
I don't just mean they used more non-white characters (and they did), but they took a lot more risks telling more complex stories while DC stayed safe inside it's Comics Code Authority blanket MUCH longer then Marvel did while they began to push the boundaries of what was considered "acceptable" storytelling in comic books at the time.
That said, around the 1980's both companies were basically at their peak for the exact same reasons: both embraced diversity without shoving it in your face (at least too often), both were telling stories that were easy to grasp and socially relevant in many cases, both were branching out into the graphic novel style market and telling some really great stories with them and both were heavily experimenting with non-superhero genres or using superheroes to tell non-superhero stories.
The 1990's came along however (not that ALL of the 90's was bad mind you, this was a slow process) and crude mercantilism and greed by BOTH companies sort of shit the well for everyone, leading to a series of mistakes financially and management wise that has largely led (along with honest changes to the publishing market neither had anything to do with) to the slow decline of stories in both camps until both are largely just IP farms propped up by their parent companies so they can hold onto valuable merchandising rights and movie rights.

Until either the entire publishing market changes or literally every single managing executive and writer working at the Big Two retires or dies, you are effectively living in the death days of classic comic books.
They haven't died yet, but they are old and ruined and decrepit and plugged into cold mechanical life support machines labeled "Warner Brothers" and "Disney".

>>88438495
So how are they not original?

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>>88438532
>Marvel has always been liberal and progressive as fuck

Come on, half of the marvel universe were George W. Bush's drone during the initiative.

>>88438546
>Another new Spiderman.
> A female Rhodey

>>88438534
Anon, that sounds like an actual answer.
We're not in here for actual answers. We're in here to start shit for no reason and get into internet fights and call each other names.

>>88438553
>Implying those characters weren't portrayed as being in the wrong

There is a reason why Marvel went full retard and turned Stark into a supervillain in Civio War to make the Anti-Reg side look more heroic.

>>88438582
>Doesn't know what a legacy character is
>Doesn't know that Rhodes was black Iron Man before he was even War Machine

Silly underage.

>>88438534
>the death of comics
>while the ips are the centerpieces of massive hit movies, vidya games, etc
Hmm.

>>88438594
Mark Millar said both side had right and wrong argument.

>>88437831
how old we talking?
before 95ish it was the continuity, the idea that everything was planned and seen, that you could go back 10 years and there was a strong attempt to ensure it all made sense and wasn't constantly hand waved magic that reset things to status quo. Another strength back then was a better sense of world building. It was rare you had stories where you paused to ask "New York is under siege in a Spider-man book, where are the Avengers?" There was a sense that this was a family you found that always had stories to tell.
post mid 90s it started t fall apart and come the start of 2000 it was changing to be more action focused with continuity and lore being seasoning if anything. While not terrible this was the shaky road that lead us to major events every year because the crank up to a almost Michael Bay film style was selling hot with new readers but they didn't just use it as an entry point more as a bait hook and now the fish are all gone and they have no idea how to get them back in.

>>88438609
Riri and Miles are legacy characters?
And you're saying that Riry is gonna be the next War machine? It will made her just a r63 Rhodey and you know it.

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>>88438617
both sides were trash.

>>88438611
In part it's sad, especially for guys like me who DO read comics which seems to be something of a relatively rarity on here these days.
But it's also just something I've learned to accept because there's nothing to be gained by pissing and moaning about it.

>>88438617
It doesn't matter what he said. It's well known among the Marvel fandom that Cap's side was supposed to be portrayed as the good guys. Spider Man-the moral center of the MU switching over to Cap just shows this(which is why he's left out of CWII). All the material after Civil War definitely did not make Pro-Reg look good either.

>>88438633
Oh dear you really don't know what legacy characters are.

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>>88438515
>THE NEW BLACK HERO
They were only appealing to the lucrative yet untapped luchador faction of comic book readers when they wrote this, honest.

>>88438646
The writer of this comic completely misunderstands both characters. You would only think this is correct if you only ever saw Cap and Iron Man from a surface level perspective.

>>88438664
>It doesn't matter what he said.

He's just the writer.

>>88437831
Long ago, the four nations (FF, X-Men, Spider-Man & the rest of Marvel) lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the near bankruptcy happen so they have to sold the movie & merchandise rights to different studio. Then the mouse purchased the company and with it's resources they made MCU and got really popular with the mainstream and thus they wanted to appeal with tumblr audiences by creating a new diversity characters (few are good & but others are forceful shit). Dumbass editorial mandate by making horrendous stories and out of characters & the current state of Spider-Man, X-Men & FF is shit.

The end

>>88438676
But he's right about them being clones.

>>88438375
>Muh /pol/ strawman
Just admit that they're shoving political shit down people's throats without any care for how well they do it, as if pandering makes up for crappy work.
If they want to just expose their ideas they should move to making political cartoons.

>Inb4 wow are you against people who disagree with you/wow are you against artistic expression
No, read what I posted again, and this time try to take the bias out of your head while reading.

>>88438699
He wrote the main series, not the entire event. Marvel editorial dictated what they wanted from the event and oversaw how the whole conflict was handled afterwards not him.

>>88438721
They ruined spider-man before the mouse though.

>>88438723
They aren't clones. Riri and Miles share similar character archetypes with their predecessors but they aren't carbon copies.

>>88438763
Miles has no personality. He's even black because of the carbon copy.
Riri is basically a black Teenage tony

>>88438724
Oh child you really have to go back and read those old Marvel comics if you think they're being too political now.

And don't give be me that "but they were subtle about it!" shit. No kid they weren't. You just don't realize this because social conservatism keeps reinventing itself ever couple decades(it used to be the Conservative thing to oppose the Civil Rights movement but nowadays Conservatives would look at you sideways if you expressed that viewpoint).

>>88438787
Good to know you don't read comics just regurgitate what /co/(who is filled with non-readers) tell you.

>>88437831
less drama and more joyful stories

>>88438805
>You have the same opinion as some other people.
>It's not yours then.

>>88438787
>Riri is basically a black Teenage tony
She's constant drunk, fucking bitches, and making terrible mistakes that lead her to alienate her friends?

>>88438824
Of course Anon. Oh those damn SJWs and their Jewish diversity agenda!

>>88438824
>Teenage tony was constant drunk and fucking bitches.
That's why i said it was a teenage Tony.

>>88438878
i thought you meant she was a black teenage version of tony, not a black version of teenage tony

>>88438824
Teenage tony was constant drunk and fucking bitches? I missed my teenage years.

>>88438856
same fag.

>>88438693
I agree the comic writer didn't get the reasons right I disagree on the split. Cap learn during his Nomad era that rebelling the government like he did only gives it more power not less and learn that dealing with thing internally is much more needed and this echos in many of his 80s and 90s arcs where he fights his government but while being a part of it too.

Iron man has always been a huge rebel to big government and has never trusted SHIELD to the point he has been an enemy of theirs more than once and Cap is the only reason those actions were forgiven.

I will compromise to say both could go rebel but Stark working with Shield with the SHRA because a dead mother grieved (and that's not the first time he has been blamed for kids/peoples deaths and he actually did kill a few people with his hands) is fucking stupid and just shows how much this was a marketing scheme to try and plunder sales by current events and honestly that is why they are failing so bad now is because they are still trying to be "South Park the comic brand" rather than tell good stories.

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>>88438762
fucking this, Clone Saga upwards into OMD was just a massive shit pile of bad. They got all the reasons wrong with Ultimate Spidey was so well received. It wasn't the entry point, it wasn't the lack of backstory, it wasn't because he was a teen again. It was the fact that they just told good stories rather than marketing events and writers just messing up status quo because they hate married couples.

>>88438611
Those aren't comics.

>>88438977
>Ultimate Spider-Man
>good stories

>>88438683
Wasn't this taking place at about the same time that Monica was leading the avengers.

>>88438796
The flaw in your theory is that I'm not a conservative buddy-o.

And
>Subtle
I didn't say anything about that, I didn't say anything about not being political either.
Rear it again, and again until you get what I said, or just get the summed up version:
If you are gonna send a message then make a good enjoyable vessel for it, don't make it all about the message.

>>88437842
>Slim Shaggy

>>88438683
So is he called Rage because he's a real-life master baiter?

>>88437831
>What was so good about old marvel?

Old Marvel catered toward 14-32 year old white males.

When Disney bought Marvel, they realized, just as old Marvel realized, this business model cannot work. You cannot keep making product for white manbabbies, since white male population is decreasing and minorities are increasing, and the untapped female market.

Disney knows white male manbabbies will automatically buy Marvel product, its a given, so Disney Marvel has done away with the old Marvel business model, and is catering to those young women and minorities that get disgusted when they walk into a comic book store and see only white characters and white women with big fucking tits and exposed cleavage.

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>ctrl+F "shooter"
>0 results

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>people blaming Disney
Except it's well-known that Disney has been very hands-off with the comics division and the comics became shit a decade before Disney bought Marvel.
But confirmation bias, I guess.

>>88438546

He's probably referring to the fact that they're clumsy legacy characters. Although that doesn't mean they're "unoriginal", it does make them forced.