Can you like a show if you don't like mc?

>>88429305
Yes.

BACK IN THE 90s

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>>88429373

Stop.

I was in a very famous teeeeveeee shooooooow

>if you don't like mc?
You mean as a person or as a character in a piece of fiction? You can hate how a character acts or does as a person but their actions and how it affects the narrative, tone, other characters and so on can still be well done.

Either way the answer is yes if all other aspects of the writing is strong enough as well as other factors such as art direction, animation and music.

The protagonist is normally the least likeable character in a story

>>88429305
You're not supposed to like ANY of the characters in BH, they're pretty much all assholes in one way or another.

Except for Mr. Peanut Butter.

>>88429305
Yes. People who think characters need to be "relatable" are fucking cancer. They just have to be well written. If they're well written and develop well they'll be interesting to watch whether you like them as a person or not.

>>88429783
Mr. Peanutbutter is an asshole and I don't like him.

>>88429305
Yes. I still liked Wander over Yonder.

>>88429833
I want to fuck Mr. Peanutbutter's asshole.

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>>88429740
Let's say that a character is supposed to come off as likeable and charming but instead you just find that character irritating and the worst part of their own show.

The main character is obviously the character that is going to get the majority of the focus, and will often be the one that steers the plot and resolves the conflict, or at least ends it somehow.

Wouldn't the rest of the show have to be really good to put up with that?

>>88429863
I want to butter my asshole and pee, you fucknut.

>>88429783
Nah, just the main characters (except PB) and some reoccurring ones like the hippo. Owl lady, mouse girl, penguin guy are all decent people.

>>88429783
>You're not supposed to like ANY of the characters in BH
Awful, awful bait. Todd, PC, and a good chunk of the side characters are perfectly likable and generally decent people.

>>88429907
I actually think that would be a logical ending to that show. They would never do it though, for various reasons.

>>88429913
>Worthless, unproductive stoner who can never get off his high horse despite mooching off of one for most of his adult life
>Agent who actively damages her clients' job prospects and allows her workaholic tendencies to take precedence over personal relationships
mkay

>>88429913
Not only this, but you can hate some things a character does without hating them overall. The point is that all the characters are flawed, and some of them are more flawed than others, and they're all trying to live and grow. Some are just trying harder than others.

One of the things this show did is make me not pick favorites and characters to hate, at least not as rigidly as I used to.

>>88429980
Todd would have hit the big-time with his rock opera. They drive that point home multiple times. And PC has done more for Bojack than he ever deserved. I'm not gonna sit here and try to convince you though, you're clearly very cynical and have your mind made up already.

>>88429867
Still yes, while the protagonist is the one which introduces to the reader/viewer to the situation and plot, it doesn't necessarily revolve around them. You can still enjoy the actual plot itself, even if you don't like the protagonist role or how it deals the situations as well as the other characters that interact with him. You can enjoy the tone and atmosphere which the artist creates, the art direction, the musical score and so on.

There's a lot of factors that attribute to a show, while having a bad made protagonist can be a great hindrance it's not necessarily make it or break it. I think an artist have to do multiple wrong doings before I begin to dislike the show, at least for me.

>>88429907
You're 100% right that Bojack is a shitty person. None of that means he "deserves" to be depressed or have abusive parents, though. It just means he does, and also he's an asshole. I think it would actually be really interesting to have him work on his depression and get through a lot of his shit, and then realize he's still pushing his friends away because he's habitually an asshole at this point.

>>88430047
On the one hand, it would be revolutionary. On the other, is it a revolution we want? How many TV shows do you want to have end with protagonist suicides?

>>88429783
Even Mr. Peanut Butter stated that he pretend to be happy just because he would choose to live a lie over dealing with the truth. Forgot who he was, I think Peanut Butter's brother? But someone in his family was depressed as fuck and instead of talking about it they have a unwritten rule where they just ignore it until it is too late. Thankfully a 3rd party was there to fix what was literally a non-issue that would otherwise cause a death in the family.

I hate people like Peanut Butter, I'm a blunt person though. If you tell me you are fine then I'll take your word for it. I don't fucking play games where you tell me one thing but mean another. Listening to a depressing person talk might be slightly annoying but at least they can be helped.

>>88430041
>you're clearly very cynical and have your mind made up already
Says the guy whose counterargument is "nuh uh!" and then gives up.

>>88430554
Says the guy who tried to sum up two well-intentioned but flawed characters as irredeemable piles of shit.

>>88430610
Bojack is an asshole, but all the main characters are at times. Bojack ruined Todd's space opera, and Todd ruined Bojack's first major chance at a comeback. Even if it wasn't intentional, he still acts like Bojack is the only wrongdoer when he's confronted about it. Todd also acts like it's some unforgivable sin for Bojack to bang one of his friends when he himself wasn't interested in her, and both of them regretted doing it immediately afterwards.

There was an entire episode devoted to how PC clings on to Bojack not for his sake, but because she has a compulsive need to feed useful. She was using him as a proxy for her own purposes, much like Bojack thoughtlessly uses other people for his own selfish purposes.

I gave examples to support my position. Can you provide an explanation for these behaviors other than "Bojack isn't the only asshole" ?

>>88430970
>Todd also acts like it's some unforgivable sin for Bojack to bang one of his friends when he himself wasn't interested in her, and both of them regretted doing it immediately afterwards.

Different guy but... I think Todd was interested in her, he just wasn't willing to get physical.

Why was the post about the posibility of BoJack killing himself deleted?

>>88429305

You can but bojack is shit anyway. Its just misery porn. A bunch of unlikeable assholes being assholes to eachother and everyone is miserable, I'm struggling to give a shit about anyone in that show and and it makes the whole thing boring. I dont want to waste my free time watching strangers I dont care about trudge on with their miserable lives.

>>88431553
I find it pretty funny. I dunno, maybe I just have something wrong with me, like a sense of humor.

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>>88429305
With a strong enough supporting cast, yes

>>88429305
Never seen Bojack because le deppression shows aren't my thing, but yes.

I like X-Files and I hate Mulder.
I like Batman, but I'm generally more interested in rouges or side characters than the Batfamily.

I can't think of any examples of the inverse, however. Maybe Dan vs.

>>88431186
Yes, he was angry because the awkwardness of being around Bojack made her leave the office they set up in Bojack's living room.

For such an important scene (lackadaisical Tom finally has had enough of Bojack's shit) it was kind of a flop given what a grey-area it was; why was it so terrible for Bojack to offer sex to this woman? She didn't have to take him up on it and only did because she felt rejected by Tom. Not to mention that it revolved around the least interesting recurring character they've ever had.

>>88432496
BoJack isn't really that depressing. /co/ just exaggerates as it tends to do with everything. Most of the show is pretty straight comedy, even if some of that comedy is dark.

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>>88429305
Yes

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news flash: Real people sometimes are shitty. Being a little understandably shitty sometimes makes good characters. If you can only relate to paragons of virtue there's something wrong with you.

>>88433062
This site has way too many autists that completely miss this. See Natsuki Subaru and /a/.

>>88429863
I want to put peanutbutter on my dick, and watch as Mr. Peanutbutter can't overcome his dog compulsion to lick it

>>88433122
This is the joke with his name, right? Like there's that Family Guy joke Brian makes in the Hollywood episode? My mind immediately went there.

>>88432775
>Not to mention that it revolved around the least interesting recurring character they've ever had

I can see her fucking it up by screwing another guy again because she wants sex and Todd won't put out. Todd's not up for cucking and leaves because they just can't be together.

>>88433062
Nobody said anything about paragons. I actually like Bojack. But you're not gonna like everyone. sometimes you're going to see characters, even main characters, you don't like.

>>88429867
I don't like wander though.

>>88432888
I've seen plenty say they don't like Korra, but this is the first time someone said they don't like Aang that I've seen.

>>88433062
>Being a little understandably shitty sometimes makes good characters
But that doesn't mean kinda shitty characters always make good characters nor should it be the sole reason a character is regarded as good
Real people being shitty doesn't mean a shitty character is instantly realistic

>If you can only relate to paragons of virtue there's something wrong with you.
Doesn't that mean that said person is also a paragon of virtue, meaning nothing is wrong with them?

>>88433294
Lol you weren't on the web when it was airing then, fucking Zutara shippers were CRAZY.

>>88433256
I was more addressing the Anon who says you're not supposed to like any characters and then goes on to attack characters like Todd and PC and MrPB. Todd is just dumb and sincere. He can't help getting his feelings hurt. MrPB is dumb too. Success has fucked with his sincerity but his enthusiasm is cranked to impossible levels which is a great quality. So like a dog. PC on the other hand is a very smart person who used her mind to become successful and continues to be successful she just thought happiness would come easy and it hasn't.

>>88433381
>Doesn't that mean that said person is also a paragon of virtue, meaning nothing is wrong with them?
Yeah, you. You're fucked up. There is no such thing as a paragon of virtue. If you can sit around and nitpick the nuanced flaws of fictional characters you SHOULD be able to grasp that.

>>88429905
Most of the cast are supposed to be unlikable, all of them are supposed to be damaged in some fundamental way and working their way towards rock bottom because of their inability to overcome it.

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>>88429305
Absolutely