Why are the sales of comics so bad?

The cost alienates young readers, the content alienates the old ones. Among a bunch of other factor.

They're not. Sales have gone up steadily over the recent years.

>>88421090
Because they're liberal propaganda

>>88421204
Are there any statistics on
>indie comics
>non-Diamond distibuted comics
>digital sales

>>88421090
>comics that take less than 5-10 minutes to read cost over 3 dollars a pop
>ridiculously easy to pirate online

I wonder

>>88421565
>Indies are also shipped through Diamond
>all returnable
>Mythological

It's an expensive niche hobby that's hard to break into.

>>88421090
Print is dying. Digital piracy can be done by a 6 year old.

>>88421252
This. Too much agenda pushing. Too much regurgitation. Can't compete with other forms of entertainment.

>>88422086
>Can't compete with other forms of entertainment

Mangas seem to have no problems.

>>88421252
>>88422086

But sales have gone up in the past several years.

>>88422047
>prints dying and piracy
Yet One Piece still sold 12 million volumes year.

>>88422142
You can get manga cheaper

>>88422047
>Print is dying
People don't read anymore. There's TV, video games, and a shitton of other media to draw people away from print.

>>88422176
>12 million volumes year.
In the US or in Japan? Because Japan is a peculiar place when it comes to pirating.

>>88422142
There's more manga to buy too.

>>88421090
> he asks on am image board that rips copies of releases online and distributes en masse

>>88422200
And in a country like the USA where manga cost a lot more than in other countries, it tells a lot about comic's prices.

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>>88421090

Because they're books. It appeals to less people than watching, playing, or listening to something. Less people like reading, and the people who do like reading are reading books instead of comic books. Comic books will NEVER EVER be able to compete with other forms of entertainment. Comic books lost all hope of ever competing once the television was invented.

>>88421090
Piracy is easier and the stories don't appeal to the core audience or general audience anymore.

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>>88422240
both?

>its considered a comic

>>88422200
This. While comic publishers print on nice paper with full color and good inks to please collectors, manga is published B&W in phonebooks made from cheap pulp. One format is meant to be collected and saved, the other designed to be disposable and is thus much cheaper.
If someone likes a serialized manga, the then buy the collected volume in a trade for permanent ownership.
This model won't work in the US simply because we don't have a culture of purchasing monthly phonebooks of serialized manga.

>>88422176
Manga is easier to find

>>88422366
and faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more diverse

>>88422224
Boys do not read anymore. Somehow it has become unmanly to read.

>>88422318
that's for most copies sold by a single series done by a single creator (which One Piece isn't, all of the inkers are uncredited)

>>88422481
It says author. So it's correct because Oda is the only one who writes.

>>88422176
This discussion is in the context of US media markets and cultural trends. How many of those sales were in the US?

>>88422176
>>88422318

>the #1 bestselling funnybook on the planet only sells 12 million a year

that's not that amazing when compared to every other entertainment industry.

>>88422585
> everything has to be amazing in order to be considered good

with all the choices out there and how Niche stuff is, its good enough

>>88422326
It isn't about a a consumer culture. The comic industry is run by people like Morrison who would rather die than print in manga quality.

>>88422688
Black and white does require a tad bit more work to be expressive in my opinion

>>88422585
Considering a "bestselling" novel usually tops out at 1 to 1.5 million a year, 12 million is amazing.
But, compared to movies where someone spends a similar price to see a 90 minute show, 12 million is mediocre at best.

Went to a new LSC in my area and it was dead.

I know it's new but I didn't think it'd be that bad on a Wednesday. Only people there was me, an older couple looking around the store in general, and some people playing a tabletop game.

Bought a TPB to somewhat support them but damn

>>88421090
Cape comics keep doing the same story with the same characters again and again and again...etc. it's just honestly boring.

>>88422737
Mine hosts a ton of tournies.

>>88422843
This. Manga stories run their course with even the longest lasting ones usually ending when the author gets too old/sick or moves on. DC/Marvel just repeat the same stories with the same characters every 7 years.

>>88422843
So how do you explain the absolute lack of books that feature anything non-cape?
This is a business, so in theory, the market should be providing content that meets or creates demand.
By the numbers, non-cape comics are a niche of a niche market in the US.

>>88422912
And then Harry Potter happens

>>88422326
I don't think even that's true. You can get dragon ball in full color for twenty dollars, it's high quality, and the pages are really big. The three in one Manga are the poorer quality ones and even then you get three volumes for like 12 dollars. So if you don't have much money, you can either buy a 4 dollar comic book that'll last you at most five minutes, or spend twelve and get three fucking volumes of manga.

>>88421090
They're a niche product.

>>88422912
Capes have a very high brand recognition, ever kid knows Spiderman, Batman, Superman etc.. So inevitably sell better.

>>88421204
>>88422165
Don't bring facts into this conversation, /co/ doesn't care about facts. They care about what they feel should be correct.

>>88422688

But the print quality of manga isn't bad though, both US and JP collected editions are decent stuff. Magazines however are of varying quality.

>The comic industry is run by people like Morrison who would rather die than print in manga quality.

This is just you projecting, you have no idea what Grant Morrison likes and doesn't like.

>>88422176
and that was probably thanks to japan where it's harder to pirate things

>>88421565
http://www.cbr.com/looking-at-bookscan-2015/

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>>88421090
>Why are the sales of comics so bad?

Because all the good story ideas have been used a hundred times, then re-told in animated series and movies, and now being refurbished and re-told as live-action series and movies.
And both of these are more accessible formats than small, flimsy 4 dollar magazines.

The only people excited to read about Flash outrunning Eviller Flash for the 54th time are dedicated comic book fanboys, an aging and dwindling breed. You can only sell the same stories serialized for so long. Batman and Spidey will be the last holdouts, but in another decade or two they whole endeavor will fold up like the other magazine offerings.

>>88423016
>collected editions
No one is talking about that.

And thinking the guy who did Multiveristy is going to settle for phonebook shit you have lost your mind.

>>88422176
One Piece is also churned out with the same production values as a Heathcliff strip, by under-fed galley slaves. They can sell volumes with 10 times the pages for only double the price. It's an entirely different business model to the US.

>>88422688
>I namedrop comic people but have no idea who they are: The post

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>>88422688
Morrison would do black and white in a hearbeat for Walking Dead bux.

It's a shame he doesn't have any marketable ideas.

>>88423202
yes yes. You are the one who actually knows all about the comic industry. Gotcha

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>>88423202
>>88423282
Is this thread gonna turn into another episode of Fat Faggots Slap at One Another?
'cause I'd like to bail now if it is.

Because it's an awful medium

Monthly serialization is an awful was to tell stories. It keeps writers and artists under terrible constant pressure, and segmenting stories up like that means you "have to" include drugs, sex, violence to keep readership up, always end on a cliffhanger so they have to buy that next comic. It's stifling to creativity. And there are industry-made problems like those that come with a vast interconnected universe (which means constant and often awful and poorly conceived crossovers), constantly changing canon, an inability to stray from status quo etc. etc.

There's a reason cape movies, TV, and other media are vastly more popular in modern times than their source material.

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>>88421090
This board has 22 Story-times and a Win-O thread up RIGHT NOW and you're asking why sales are bad?

TWENTY TWO

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>>88423376
Those threads are generally frequented by people who buy comics like myself. Torrents and downloads of comic books aren't expanding the readership either.

Kids aren't buying armloads of new releases anymore, like I did way back in my day.

>>88423322
Since when is a /co/ thread NOT an episode of that?

>>88422262
Every other media industry has tons of piracy, but they still kick comic's ass.

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>>88423322

>>88423459
I don't mind the occasional snark/shitpost, but too often it just becomes two hyper-autists "NO U"-ing back and forth at one another, like two retards puffing at the finish line at the special olympics.

>>88422688
Then why are the western compilations that emulate Shonen Jump so obscure?

>>88423443
>Those threads are generally frequented by people who buy comics like myself.
There's no evidence for that whatsoever

>Kids aren't buying armloads of new releases anymore, like I did way back in my day.
For obvious reasons that have already been mentioned

>>88423494
Walking Dead emulates Shonen Jump perfectly and it's the opposite of obscure.

It's circular repetitive storytelling at it's finest.

>>88423515
>There's no evidence for that whatsoever

If storythreads were frequented by normies, I'd start running into normies that knew the first thing about comic book lore.
But neither of us do; we talk to people who wonder when Thor and Batman will fight.

It's just comic nerds and comic nerds who've given up on buying them.

>>88423443

>Kids aren't buying armloads of new releases anymore, like I did way back in my day

Kids don't read comics. They really don't.

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>>88423593
It was never ALL kids in any case.
Physically weak/introverted/latchkey kids have better entertainment options at this point than comic books.

>it's piracy's fault!
>even though torrents of movies, television shows, and video games are easier to find and replicate the original experience perfectly as opposed to pirating a comic and reading a physical copy

>>88423587
I literally have no idea what you're trying to say in this post. Are you trying to say that the people who frequent these threads are comic nerds because they know that Batman and Thor aren't in the same universe?

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>>88423682
>the experience
>of holding a piece of paper in your hand

>>88423587
Nobody said anything about normies. Just people who buy comics. You can be a giant comic nerd who never bought a comic their life. The point being made was that you have no clue what kind of person reads what kind of thread

>>88423587

surface level knowledge=/=enthusiast

Just because you know that Thor and Batman aren't owned by the same company doesn't mean that you're a comic book nerd.

>>88423665
see
>>88423707

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Just be glad that the stories and characters have leapfrogged from an outdated and dying media to one that's incredibly popular and profitable.

Mourning comic books at this stage is exactly like weeping over the demise of cassette tapes and CDs. There's always going to be this niche for people who want Vinyl, but it will never be what it once was, no matter how awesome you make the album covers.

>>88423707
>>88423739

There are tons of people who dont buy digital books because they'd rather have a physical copy. Even if that wasn't true, it still doesn't invalidate the argument. If it was piracy's fault, then other industries would also be dead.

>>88421090
easier to watch comic book tv/movies

>>88423774
floppies are the shittiest form of physical copy that exist.
The problem is that the storytelling format is generally designed around the length of floppies.
Only crusty comic nerds want longboxes full of them piled in their closets. (I say this as someone who used to have a lot of longboxes).

>>88423587
>"everybody who reads those threads either buys comics and reads storytimes" or "reads storytimes and doesn't buy comics"
>There's no middle ground


>>88423707
Anybody else hate how comic book pages feel in your hand?

>>88423869
I buy HC, or TPB when Hardcover editions seem unlikely.
I use storytimes to window-shop for HC or TPB collections. I haven't bought a floppy in decades.

>>88422912
Half of this week's releases are non-cape like almost every other week.

>>88423774
Other industries are dying as well. Flicks are now blockbuster or bust with few inbetween with overall sales down.

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>>88423898
I use storytimes to window shop for series to download.
I have never bought a comic in my life.
>mfw i realise i am the problem

>>88423951
>Other industries are dying as well

This is a meme tho.

>>88423774
people who want to keep them and or satisfy their nostalgic needs, sure

>tons
obviously not, lol

>>88423951
The big blockbusters/franchises are just the natural evolution of the Summer Movie that started in the 70's.
If you think movie attendance/sales are down from decades ago you are out of your mind. Low key dramas have rarely made huge bux at the cinema. Now you go tell that sort of story on Netflix. In that way, cerebral story-oriented dramas are more lucrative than they have been in a long while.

>>88422086
>>88422176
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKks_eXuJU&t=280s&ab_channel=ForneverWorld

>>88423951

Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>88422409
Well, most of mainstream book culture is directed at woman. Hell, have you tried walking into sections of stores that sell books? It feels so girly to do so.

One reason I mostly prefer manga over comics is consistency. If I read the first chapter of a manga and I like the art and characterizations, most of the time it stays the same and the story progresses and develops over time.

Comics on the other hand can have wildly different art from chapter to chapter and different writers with different takes on the characters and full on retcons. Artists and writers come and go and it drags.

>>88426167
Shit like one more day and sins past would never happen in a manga unless the author is rage quitting and ending the book.

Aliens would be more capable of making things people actually like than marvel editorial

superheroes neither have lasting continuity or satisfying and complete arcs nowadays

a lot of the time a comic has the same amount of plot as a short episode recap

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>>88423643
>It was never ALL kids in any case.
This.

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>>88426594

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>>88426621

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>>88426652

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>>88426682

>>88421090
It's not manga. Sales of manga is sick over in Nip-land.

>>88421090

They need to pander to minorities and women more, that will get the sales up.

>>88426712
Any drawings of them fucking and cumming on the swamp thing comic?

>>88421565
Why are you surprised that indie doesn't sell well? This isn't even a comic issue, it's just an issue of indies always selling shit in every medium.

-They move too slow. People aren't used to monthly content anymore.
-They're too expensive. When you can buy a hot meal for the same price as two comics, something is wrong.
-Diamond has a stranglehold on almost the entire industry's distribution. Even though there are alternatives like digital, Diamond still controls the main flow of distribution. That means the way stores order and display books is more or less controlled by a monopoly.
-The big guys don't advertise well. This is mainly due to their parent companies not giving an actual fuck about comics sales because they'll never compare to movie revenue and the like. Comics are viewed as glorified idea farms and ways to get viral marketing campaigns started at this point.
-The little guys don't have the recognizable characters to draw big crowds (besides Walking Dead). Brands are hard to come by in this day and age.

>>88422688
>thinks Morrison runs anything in the American comic industry
>thinks Morrison dislikes manga quality
Cringe

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>>88426858
Nope, too obscure for /co/.

>>88423376
I've spent probably 10k+ in my life on comics and I pirate rampantly
When you factor shit people have gifted me, at least 15k

>>88427014
I've seen those pages posted here countless times.

>>88421090
Use me as an example as to why no one buys comics:

I don't read.

>>88426838

This is also a meme. Stop spreading memes please.

>>88422993
This.

Colbert was right.

>>88426839
Well pandering to middle-aged white guys sure wasn't growing their audience, so you can't really blame them for trying to branch out.

What does a typical comic sales graph look like in the long term?

>>88423751
that might be true if you consider the character and narrative essentials that are rebooted, but the medium of comic, the art of comics if you will, is not just a storage unit for the same format.

Incidentally, what about belgo-franco comics? They cost more and are printed on better paper, usually have hardcovers (well my french ones do, my flemish or dutch ones are softcover).

The first issue of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic had over 90,000 pre-orders.

>>88427348
>>>/mlp/

>>88427220
>Colbert was right.
Colbert is never right. He's a pandering fool...

>>88427294
Market in France is very healthy. Almost too healthy if you're an author since it's very to make a place for yourself on a saturated market.
Manga and even American comics sell very well too.

>>88427379
Which explains why he has pissed you of so much

>>88421090
Because comics are shit

>find a good store in your area
>make sure it has good stuff in stock
>pay for it if reasonable price
And then people pirate it when they get stuck on one of the above. That and not a lot of comics are good now.

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its because comics are easy to pirate

Comics are one of the only forms of print media on the up, which is quite an acheivement.
What retard made this thread

>>88421090
Because it's a poor content model that was part of an already dying industry that refused to adapt and a distribution monopoly that actively works to dismantle preferable alternatives.

Why is it that print novels made it to e-readers before comic books, when the target audience of comics was way more likely to buy first gen e-readers?

The cost of them, the fact that a number of people don't have an accessible LCS or the ones who do have to deal with asshole owners, and the constant reboots that aren't really new reader friendly in the long run.

>>88421090
I don't know. Then again it's not like I pay for my comics or manga. I ain't giving then niggas a red cent. Funny thing is I kinda got bored of both recently

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>>88421090
Because they're pandering to people that don't buy comics, alienating the people that do

>>88422585
It depends on quantity anon.

4 volumes 12 million
last year it was 5 volumes, so 14 millions.

>>88427158
>I don't read.
comics or books in general, cause if it's the second, you are lying.

>>88422585
>that's not that amazing when compared to every other entertainment industry.
money
you have to remember that a manga is more cheaper to make than a 50 million dollar movie. from a ratio point of view, the manga is more impressive.

>>88435901
12.3 million x 500(yen) = 6.150.000.000 yen

500 yen = 4.2-3 dollars so 53 million dollars

Of course this doesn't count digital sales but according to JUMP and other shonen magazines a lot of manga sell surprisingly nice in digital format.

I doubt digital sales are 15% of the print but still

>>88422409
It's always been unmanly to read, just now people can watch TV.

>>88423328
But Full Metal Alchemist was a monthly serialized comic, and that ended more often then not on a cliffhanger.

>>88425699
What shitty bookstores do you go into?

>>88421204

Sales can be going up and still be utter dogshit, though.

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>>88421090
They're fine senpai

>>88436669
Eh there's a lot of popular monthly manga.

>>88436687
I'm not talking about actual bookstores, but sections of other stores that happen to sell books.

>>88421090
Consider the forms of entertainment comics compete with now as well as their relative costs.

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when was the last time picrelated happenned

There's a few reasons

>You're paying 4$ for a comic that's barely 10 pages long, comparatively there's more you could get for your money
>Diamond has a monopoly on comic disribution
>similar forms of content like manga are much cheaper for the amount you get
>comics themselves are not accessible to new readers, writers getting into pissing contests with each other, and trying to push agendas can stretch out and ruin arcs to the point where there winds up being too many of them. Things get bloated.


I think that about sums it up. I mean, they could solve most of these problems, but they're "doing what works" even though that practically killed the industry.

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>>88423328
That's retarded, there's plenty of monthly manga and they do just fine.

The problem with comics is that they're a boring and convoluted mess, for example I wanted to read spider-verse the other time... except it wasn't a "spider-verse" series, instead I had to follow ASM and some other comic series so that I could follow the story of all characters.

That's just pointless

>>88421090
because comics are fucking terrible

>>88421090
They aren't. Only mainstream geek culture oriented comics like superdudes from Marvel/DC are dying. UG/Alt/Comix/literary comics aimed towards adults are in a golden age at the moment. The geeks has destroyed this medium long enough so it's a good thing they are dying.

>>88423328
>Because it's an awful medium
>Monthly serialization is an awful was to tell stories

But most comics aimed towards adults aren't serialized. They come in book form (not magazine/floppy) and contains a beginning, a middle and an end just like a movie or a regular book. Comics is a storytelling medium just like film or literature and doesn't have to be serialized monthly. The only comics that are serialized are the kiddie/geek comics.

>>88422912
>This is a business, so in theory, the market should be providing content that meets or creates demand.
Markets twist themselves into nonprofitable binds all the time.

>>88421090
As far as modern DC cape goes -- they're boring and inaccessible with few exceptions. I tried to get into New 52 a few years ago since I thought it would be an easy entry (as it was marketed as iirc) into this nerdy hobby I'm supposed to like because I'm a loner and chronic masturbator. I like Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Killing Joke, you know, that stuff, but, Christ, I just couldn't get on board with the current stuff. Not enough to pirate it, certainly not enough to go in person to a comic shop and buy it.

Comics are doing great. The Japanese market took decades of growth to get to where it is. American comics can get to that place, but it'll take time to recover from the shitshow of the back half of the 20th century.

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>>88423145
Eviler Flash needs to win for once.

>>88427379
>"Truthiness is 'What I say is right, and [nothing] anyone else says could possibly be true.' It's not only that I feel it to be true, but that I feel it to be true. There's not only an emotional quality, but there's a selfish quality."