Not-so-Poison Ivy

But this isn’t the Poison Ivy in comics today. Today’s Poison Ivy is much less of a villain, and usually isn’t seen without her ambiguous best friend/semi-ambiguous girlfriend Harley Quinn, who I’ll refrain from ranting about because there are no winners when she’s being discussed. To the average consumer, Ivy is not actively being billed as some big eco terrorist anymore, or some kind of symbol regarding how women can be just as threatening as men can be, which would be foolish to assume otherwise as both are as nothing more than human beings. Today, she’s just a “fun time girl” who occasionally acts in disapproving ways, which, as a comparison to her original self, is such an enormous waste of a character.

I feel nothing exemplifies this better than a commercial I saw today while shopping at Target. I know DC Super Hero Girls is a show, I’ve never watched it, have no interest in it. But now Lego is marketing toys of it.

I actively cringed when I heard a little girl in the commercial yell “Poison Ivy to the rescue!”

Poison Ivy does not “rescue” anybody. Poison Ivy kills you and your family for cutting down a tree to have logs for your fireplace to keep warm in the winter. Poison Ivy lures you into having sex with her and then dissolves your body in a genetically engineered carnivorous plant so said plant can grow as a new sentient species. Poison Ivy destroys factories and landmarks simply because a forest used to stand where they did.
But not anymore, now Poison Ivy is just a girl running around with her girlfriend having those happy sexy adventures while occasionally going out of her way to water a plant.

Everyone with an opinion on poison ivy needs to drink hemlock at this point

jesus christ

Without trying to make this sound like some sort of feminist/anti-feminist rant, what’s wrong with making a woman being an actual villain, someone who’s completely beyond empathy or redemption? I thought equal representation was the ultimate goal across all campaigns in comics today, that’s why we have legacy characters that have existed for decades having their races, genders or sexualities changed just so companies can claim they’re doing their part to keep up with the times, when usually, the only people who care aren’t the ones buying and reading their comics. If a woman is forbidden from being written as despicable as a man can be, how is that equal?

>>88404471
>>88404495
>>88404526
Back to Twitter, Ivygirl

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Silly Anon. Wymmin can't be evil, not like the horrible men. My wymmin's studies professor told me so.

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>>88404471
nigger I ain't reading that shit

Post Ivies

It's the waifufags working in the industry. They can't justify their love for female villains unless they "redeem" them, so they try to make them anti-heroes or defang them.

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>>88405411
If you can't love your waifu for being evil then you don't love her at all.

Out of curiosity what is the worst thing Ivy ever did in the comics?

>>88404526
>>88405411
It's everyone. Nobody wants to push (or risk the blowback from pushing) the narrative that some women just deserve a punch in the face.


And you can't have a good villain without that

>>88405603
Telltale did fine with Lady Arkham/Vicky Vale. More so that in the finale you can finally kick her ass

>>88405546
Ivy seducing men, killing them, feeding them to her plant, and taping them to masturbate to it later.

To be fair, that felt out of character for her.

>>88405650
Yeah. Not to mention Magpie in Beware the Batman. He feels bad for her, but he doesn't hold back the punches when fighting her.

It is because Poison Ivy was right about the ills of society and how humans are destructive to the other living things on the planet.
Of course, writers fail to recognize that the mechanics of life are preying on others to survive and those who cannot die out to become food to others.

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Interestingly, Poison Ivy started out as a flat-out villain who wanted to be the most infamous female villain around. She was just evil for the sake of being evil. It wasn't until B:TAS that gave her that motivation.

>>88404566
OP is not wrong. NuIvy is shit.

Anyone have the legitimately disturbing page where Ivy's mocking a woman in a Venus flytrap who's being digested alive? Something along the lines of, "Oh, you can't feel your legs because they're gone."

>>88406016

it always goes back to the fucking cartoons people watched as kids huh

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>>88405546
I like that book where she talks to a guy while he digests alive inside a plant.

Remember when Killer Frost was a villain, before they started making her waifubait by making her TRAGIC and TORTURED and now she's gonna be on the fucking JLA?

>>88404471

I agree with you 100%, but I'm honestly more concerned about what's going on with Harley Quinn than Ivy

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>>88406400
KF was always tragic and tortured, especially Louise. It's just that she was also evil.

Fuck Caitlin though. I'll take her, and I'll buy her books, but I don't have to like it.

>>88404526
>Who is Talia Al Ghul
>Who is Cheshire
>Who is Junior

>>88406575

And where have they been? Last time I saw Talia was in Batman: Bad Blood.

>>88406575
Talia was Batman's perfect waifu and one true love who genuinely cared for him and was destined to be with him and he loved but didn't want her dad to win until Morrison made her a psycho.

I vastly prefer Morrison's Talia, but it was completely out of character.

You don't read comics. Ivy has been painted as sympathetic to downright good a thousand fucking times. Only people who don't read comics get upset by something that goes against their only known version of a character.
Dumb women hater poster.

>>88406790
See >>88404495

Dumb shitposter

>>88406695
Even before Morrison, Talia was always second to Catwoman.

>>88406790

Even then anon still has a point about how female villains tend to not be as villainous as their male counterparts, nor do they get the same punishment as them.

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>>88406939
>
The only shitposter here is you OP. You clearly have only 1 Ivy adapatation as a reference frame and thus if they don't conform to that then its bad and means ebil women are taking over muh media.
Fuck off and die in a gutter.

>>88406998
I think a more pertinent issue would be how infrequently Poison Ivy has a prominent appearance that doesn't involve Harley Quinn in some manner.

>>88406575
>>88406661
>>88406695

Talia went back to being a good girl now.

>>88406992

You wish. All Batman's love interest fall into the same category of "failed romance/doomed romance". There's no OTP when it comes to Batman.

>>88407027

Poison Ivy started as a villain and remained as a villain until the 90's and even then lots of comics from that time had her as a tragic villain.

>>88407204
>hurr durr characters shouldn't be allowed to evolve

>>88407230
Evolution is not a set path. Not everyone's going to see the light and turn into a better person.

Someone HAS to be the bad guy.

>>88407230
Ivy's had significant evolution over the years.

>>88407230

There's good evolution and there's bad evolution.

Poison Ivy today is nothing more than Haley Quinn's cucked lesbian girlfriend and loyal sidekick.

>>88407375
Which considering what she used to be, is pretty sad.

>>88407418
>Ivy will never manipulate, use, then ruthlessly betray Harley Quinn to get away scot free

>>88404471
It turns out when some of your most fleshed out, individual (not based on another hero or hero family) coolest female characters are villains you end up with popular female villains.

But female villains dont sell well to normies (the prime "toy aisle" merch target) and only have so much growth potential to push tpb sales in a time when the main market is "crossovers with heroes". Eventually their motivations stop making sense or they devlop closer to being heroes.

This has happened before, time and again.

Plastic Man, Emma Frost, Hawkeye, Namor, Deadpool, Quicksilver and Scarlet witch and even Magneto, Clayface, Falcon (as "Snap" Wilson), Black Widow, Rogue, Heatwave...

You can do more with a hero, even an anti-hero that still plays the antagonist fairly often, than a straight villain.

Its become especially true of DC's female villains of late because they got a good amount of play to the normies in the non-comics media because they are pretty cool and other than "families" (Batfamily, Superfamily, Marvelfamily, Hawlfamily, Green Lantern Corps, Aquafamily) who will ALWAYS play second string at best to the head of the family, DC really lacks female characters with public traction so people latch on to what they can get.

I mean other than Wonder Woman, who does DC have that isnt part of a family, or a team? Vixen? Zatanna? Black Canary (unfortunately eaten by the arrowfamily).

Starfire and Ravem along with Fire and Ice MAYBE but Star and Raven are part of the Teen Titans in the popular consensus so would be hard to push on their own or in movies without sidekick setup to make titans make sense and anyone on the JLE/JLI/Superbuddies may as well not exist to Jane Q Normie.

Especially especially female villains that have had movies (Poison Ivy) or have been highly represented in tv shows (Harley, since she was created in/for one) get pushed as they tend to have some public awareness anyway.

>>88406342
just look at the x-men

>>88406575
>Cheshire
>Junior

Literally Who?

>>88407673
Namor was more or less heroic at conception and Hawkeye, Black Widow, and the Maximoff twins jumped to the good guys early in their history. Although Quicksilver does do bad guy roles sometimes because impulsive as fuck.

>>88407940
Yeah I guess, but Namor was only good at the start when compared to Nazis and was always a kind of antihero or even antivillain even as a protagonist. And with Wanda and Pietro it really depends where they appear-in the x-men movies and cartoons normies MAINLY know them from, they were almost always villains in daddies cult.

Both Hawkeye and especially Black Widow also keep ending up as antagonists though, especially through shit like mind control, hero fights, mistaken identity/action, triple crossing deep cover shit etc etc

Besides that was just a list to show that blurring or crossing the hero/villain boundary aint no shit to freak out over.

>>88404495
I agree with most of your points, but in the case of DC Superhero Girls, I feel like "c'mon anon, surely we can make an exception for the little girls' show."

The show is set in a DCU where some of the unlikeliest of supervillains have either reformed or never were evil, such as Gorilla Grodd and Crazy Quilt. So they're at least being unisex with the good-guy-ification.

I should also say, my 6 year old niece watched Poison Ivy's BTAS intro ep on VHS numerous time, and Batman & Robin. where she's most overtly depicted as being that insane, and my niece still thought she was cool and pretty and ran around with a green sequined sash pretending to be her while her little brother played "Bane". So, I think girls will be girls, and girls will identify with the pretty girl, even if she's a bad girl.

>>88408634
He's a pretty little guy

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>explaining to my girlfriend that this character is a serial poisoning black widow murderess

>>88404471
She's evil in Trinity and it triggered SJW's.

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>>88406016
You're TECHNICALLY correct, but I'm pretty sure Denny O'Neil's Batman/Green Arrow: The Poison Tomorrow from '92 was an influence on their eco-terrorist take on Ivy. Although you're right about her appearances before that, and even here her motivation is slightly different, more like Apocalypse than the Floronic Man.

>>88406661
>he actually watches that DTV garbage
Anon, I think you really owe it to yourself to read Grant Morrison's Batman run. At the time it was coming out, there was a lot of blowback from Taliafags who were all mad and shit that she had finally claimed her birthright as the Demon's Head and wouldn't be the stereotypical Fu Manchu's Daughter anymore.

>>88409002
The problem is that he replaced one shallow stock character with another shallow stock character. He wasn't even the one who made her evil, Rucka did.