Why can't minority heros hang in the top 100?

>>88355281
Because writers expect them to by virtue of being minorities.

>>88355281
Because skin color is not a substitute for good writing.

>>88355281
They keep pushing Cyborg but they never say WHY.

What defines him? What is his central theme? How do his supporting characters and villains reflect that theme? Does he even HAVE any stable villains and supporting characters?

They need to focus on that before anything else.

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>Why can't minority heros hang
There is always a nice tree nearby

>>88355384

Bet you wouldn't ask so many questions if the hero was white

shoo shoo racisman

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>>88355384
I never understood why they pushed Cyborg instead of Steel. Was is the Shaquille O'Neal movie?

>>88355468
He's too wound up in 90s Superman mythos.

They don't listen to what actual minorities want. Black people loved static shock and Luke cage so far is well received but cyborg and black panther are artificially popular. The reality is most blacks (and minorities) that like superheros care very little about race. Much like women who like comics care very little about gender. Its the shrieking sjw's that feel the need to push more diversity that want it. and when they get it they don't buy it because they never liked it in the first place

Most of the classic heroes are white and minority heroes just don't have the established fanbase that Bats, Supes, Spidey, or even most A-listers do (If we consider the prior three to be S-list)

The only old-school minority hero I could really think of that's been around for a long time is Black Panther, but does he even have a solo going on right now. I feel like Marvel may have missed an opportunity by not lining up a solo book for him post-Civil War, because he did some pretty cool shit in that movie and got some necessary exposure that could have brought readers in.

Otherwise, I mean....I like Kamala but she doesn't really have that core group of diehard fans yet and while Cyborg could be bringing Teen Titans fans in most of us are still sort of scratching our heads as to why he's being pushed/in the Justice League in the first place.

>>88355643

I forgot to mention Luke Cage for old-school heroes although I do like him, but just the fact that I forgot him sort of supports my point really.

>>88355643
>most of us are still sort of scratching our heads as to why he's being pushed/in the Justice League in the first place

Because they need a black token hero there considering the classics are all white

>>88355643
They tried, but ended up pushing CW2 instead. I heard the run was decent, better than Hudlin's shit at least.

>>88355468
Teen Titans popularity combined by the fact that Steel is too close to Superman.

>>88355723

Yea but why Cyborg? What has he done that puts him above other black heroes like....uhh....hm. Well okay I don't have much for DC, I'm not super deep into that universe but someone like Bronze Tiger or Richard Dragon? Static Shock, who was popular back in the 90s and didn't already have a spot on a super team?

>>88355869
Steel wouldn't fit in this universe either.

>>88355281

people who complain about oppression are seen as victims and its hard to see a victim as a hero. unfortunately writers cant write minorities any other way.

>>88355384
>What defines him? What is his central theme?

That he's friends and has good dynamic with the other Titans characters.

So naturally you take him out of the Titans and don't even have him hang out with them at all.

GENIUS

>>88355508
Yeah this. Steel becomes really boring when the Death of Superman doesn't happen. See: DCAU Steel, New 52 Steel.

>>88356184
Logically Cyborg would fucking hate the Justice League.

>>88355384
Main theme seems to be: is he man or machine or both, and if that even really matters. There's an extra layer of "am I even actually black anymore" which could easily delve into the nuance of what black identity means in America and all that comes with it.

I know there's at least one run that attempts to explore that, but it seems kinda hard to get that to sync with a regular comic schedule AND try to get anyone outside of black readers even moderately interested it.

I feel like a Cyborg graphic novel about this has the potential to do well in a way a mini or ongoing never could.

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>>88355468
Eh, Cyborg has always been the token black. I don't like it either (Black Liighting and Vixen are better) but he's got history.

The real thing they need to work out is why Cyborg is on the League when everybody wants him on the Titans.

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>>88355468
Don't mind me, I'm just one of DC's coolest black characters that just so happens to fit the magical niche that the Justice League lacks as well as bringing in an international perspective.

>>88355945
>Yea but why Cyborg? What has he done that puts him above other black heroes like....uhh....hm. Well okay I don't have much for DC, I'm not super deep into that universe but someone like Bronze Tiger or Richard Dragon? Static Shock, who was popular back in the 90s and didn't already have a spot on a super team?

Can any of them boom tube instantly?

>>88355945

The Teen Titans cartoon. He's their highest profile black guy who isn't based on someone else like Steel or John Stewart

>>88356436
Cyborg on the Justice League is like a black hole from which no interesting character interaction can escape from.

>>88356465
Mister Miracle has a motherbox and he's a way more interesting character than Cyborg. If it comes down to just the boom tube then why not use him?

They could have even used Shilo Norman if they needed a black guy.

>>88356527
>Mister Miracle has a motherbox and he's a way more interesting character than Cyborg. If it comes down to just the boom tube then why not use him?
>They could have even used Shilo Norman if they needed a black guy.

FUCK OFF

>>88356465

Black Lightning can ZAP the Justice League to various places. Just ZAP them up. That's a thing he does, right? He ZAP things up.

ZAP!

DC refuses to use Black Lightning (a character with an interesting backstory and supporting cast) because his creator Tony Isabella has merchandising rights. If the character ever got popular, most revenue from films, tv, action figures, etc would go to him.

>>88356527

Was Shilo even really black, though? I thought he was sort of indescript. Then again I've only read the original Jack Kirby New Gods stuff so Shilo was only a child apprentice last I saw him.

I'd be down with a Mister Miracle on the League. I know Shilo isn't exactly a New God but given his ties to Scott Free he could act as a liaison between New Genesis and the League, he's got the boom tube, he's got the escape artist thing going.

The major things against him is that he's another regular human since, despite his ties to the New Gods, he isn't actually part of their race like Scott Free, he's technically a legacy character while Cyborg at least has his own super hero identity, and if we're putting him in the token black role I'm not entirely sure he's actually black. Though reading up on his backstory and seeing his art I guess he is, in any case.

>>88355384
This.

Also, cyborg is better with the titans.

Find a different character to add to the justice league

>>88356894
>Was Shilo even really black, though?

Dog, Kirby draws him like a young James Brown.

>>88355281
Black Panther, Green Lanterns and Spider-Man are in the top 100

>>88355384
It'll always be weird to me since I grew up with Teen Titans.

>>88356991

Looking over Mister Miracle 15, Shilo in particular, in some panels he does look more Indian than black. This seems to be an anomaly because Shilo's a child at this point, the adult black men that Kirby drew all look more consistent, IMO.

Speaking of black men that Kirby drew, going through all this reminds me of the Black Racer. Now that was an odd character. Death on skis but he's also possessing the consciousness of a black soldier in a coma. I'm not sure we'll ever get anything like it again

>>88355529
I don't know where you're pulling this information from other than your ass. Cyborg and BO have minority fans. Plenty of long-time female readers enjoy reading female characters. I'm Hispanic and while I enjoy all sorts of books I love RR as Ghost Rider and wish Vibe would get put on a team again.

>>88355384
Seriously, why not Vixen or Static? Vixen actually has prior experience with the Justice League, so a mediocre writer could just replicate that dynamic. And Static already fulfills the "inexperienced black superhero with a cartoon" that Cyborg does except he's got a personality and characterization that doesn't rely on Teen Titans.

Or why not just rehire Morrison to work on a JLA comic so he can shit out books of lore about a new black character?

>>88356894
>The major things against him is that he's another regular human since, despite his ties to the New Gods, he isn't actually part of their race like Scott Free,
I think this is also why Mister Terrific or Steel wouldn't work on the Justice League. Any normal human on the League is doomed to be overshadowed by Batman at all times.

>>88355384
This. The TT cartoon made me a Cyborg fanboy when it came out, and I'll buy any book starring Vic, but the only series to really try and humanize him has been the newest run.

>>88356443
Interesting,but would probably flounder for the same reasons cyborg is. Lack of pateince to build a character's status up.

>>88355468
Steal is too superman like and painted by the shaq brush. If he were getting pushed instead we'd be bitching about why DC doesn't just use cyborg who has the TT crowd and 100% original character traits.

>>88355384 is pretty much right on why Cyborg and other minority heroes fail. In the rush to get to hit status they forget to flesh out the character to make us give a damn. Even the "cancer" that is Deadpool/Harley started with good writing first and well paced stories.

Didn't all the people who buy those books as a statement kill themselves or try to kill themselves after the US elections? Hospital bills are rough - can't really afford comics when you're paying out of the ass for a night in the ER, or bail, or whatever the fuck.

>>88355281
>Why can't minority heros hang in the top 100?
Well, mainly because of shitbags like this thing here >>88355413.

>>88357609

Static has rights issues. And companies hate to share.
Current heads of DC are Hal friends. Making John redundant and off limits.
What could you do with Vixen on the JLA? When you stand her up next to the main 7, she comes off as largely redundant and over shadowed.

Speed? Flash. Thinking? Average. Strength? Superman/Aquaman/Wonder Woman. Your woman if you need Flight I guess.

IMO Cyborg isn't the problem, but just the fact nobody wants to write him consistently and let him grow naturally.

>>88357609
>>88357773
This, teen titans cn cyborg and static shock are the best black heroes, and nobody even tries to do anyuthing good with them.

Then there's War Machine, who I think could make a decent movie, but instead he's been killed to make way for black princess mary sue, and in the movies he's fucking paralyzed.