> 47. CHAMPIONS #2 (MAR) Press F to pay respects

>tfw you can't use "I'm buying it for the art" excuse
Waid is the worst Bendis.

>>88341343
It's not like Teen Titans is doing any better

>>88341343

Sam/Miles bromance is literally the only good thing about Champions.

And we can get it better elsewhere anyway.

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>>88341343
Let it die. Let it all die.

>>88341378
this
Messner-Loebs Flash forever, Speed force is gay

>>88341392
>>88341395
let a fun writer like Hastings take over and a good artist

>>88341392
Is comic better if you remove idiotic panels like "y r u triggering me, Ms. Marlel?" and most of third issue?
>>88341409
>Speed force is gay
But muh feats and Wally's mastery over Speed Force.

>>88341343
> still the most talked about comic on /co/

>>88341459
Duh. /pol/ and movie threads are also popular. Rest, not so much.

>>88341459
And Bendis is the most talked about writer on /co/. None of it is positive though.

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>>88341395
>Let it die.

You called, Senpai?

>>88341343
>not giving it for free
Fools.

>>88341343
Let's a take a moment to remember the lessons Champions has taught us.

1. Human trafficking organisations are run by clowns.

2. Ghost stories are offensive to robots.

3. ISIS can easily be defeated by a group of teenage super heroes.

>>88341633
4. all of the above is being told in a serious manner, even if it is wacky surreal comedy material.

>>88341388
Hopefully, TT will die soon too because I'm getting tired of teenage superheroes.

>>88341655
you're evil
teen superhero teams are the only good thing in comics

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>>88341388
>>88341655
>Marvel fucks up again
>FUCK YOU DC IS EVEN WORSE
Like clockwork

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>>88341682
Teen Legacy Teams are a terrible idea.
Marvel dabbles in them now and again and abandons them when they remember why they are bad (because they are written by middle-aged men who vastly prefer the characters the teens are legacies of).
DC keeps trying and trying to force this concept down everyone's throats, erry month, no matter how irredeemably awful the results.

>>88341682
Oh shut up you insecure dc fan. I couldn't care less about companywar because I'm not loyal to any of them and read whatever I like from any company.

>>88341682
My point was that apparently no one cares about teenagers teams

>>88341711
>backpedaling
>>88341707
>companywarring intensifies
Like clockwork.

>>88341716
No one cares about teenager teams full of shitty legacy wannabees written by stale old writers.

Runaways got a pretty solid reception as I recall. Individual teen books written by fresh new writers do well.

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>>88341726
Company wars have literally deformed your soul to the point that you're noxious to have any sort of conversation with.

No matter who wins the Company Wars, you've clearly lost.

>>88341682
Anon, I think he was just saying that the "teen hero teams" market is actually relatively small when the biggest namebrand in teen hero teams can't even pull solid numbers. Not everything is company wars.

>>88341744
>going weeaboo
Oh, that's new.

>>88341746
>Not everything is company wars.
Except for >>88341388 and >>88341655

>>88341746
"The heroes you like only teens/girls/animals/zombies/Chinese/whatever" is the shittiest of all comic concepts.

>>88341756
OK? So just ignore the ones that are, because replying to obvious companywarfags is no better than falling for obvious bait. Learn to have a conversation instead of just throwing shitposts into the void.

>>88341767
But he's clearly enjoying his shitposting.

>>88341388
but it is. It's like 5 units above this, and that's without free copies.

>oldfags want all capes to be old
OK.

>>88341767
>Learn to have a conversation
He said, posting in a 4chan board...

>>88341655
I hope TT will die soon too because the amount of shilling it got was annoying.

>>88341756
I was >>88341388 and >>88341716

>>88341780
DifferentGuy here! And I'm actually fine with everyone in that image except the time traveling little shit on the left.

>>88341783
Yeah, you already said so.

>>88341797
>liking Champions
>ever

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>>88341775
Yeah, I realised I wasn't even taking my own advice the second I posted it. Oh well.

>>88341799
He said he liked the cast, not the book. Which I agree with. The worst thing about Champions is how much wasted potential it is, when it could have been good with a different creative team. Waid was the wrong guy for a teen legacy book and Ramos is the wrong guy for any book.

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>>88341810
>liking Ms. Muslim
>ever

>>88341343
It'll probably settle above the cancellation line. I'd figure somewhere around 30k, which is respectable for the fucking "Champions." It's just not the top selling book Marvel wanted or expected it to be, but it was ridiculous to think it ever would be.

>>88341633

The human trafficking and ISIS stuff was handled hilariously insensitively, too.

Was the Scholastic thing a one time only deal or did they actually take a look at #1 and wondered how the fuck this is supposed to appeal to young teens?

>>88341756
How the heck me saying that I don't like teenage superheroes mean that I want to start a companywar? You are the one who literally bring it.

>>88341810

Yeah, the cast, basic premise and hook of the book are actually decent in theory (something similiar worked with the original New Warriors series). But the execution is awful on every level.

>>88341449
>Is comic better if you remove idiotic panels like "y r u triggering me, Ms. Marlel?" and most of third issue?

Then it's just boring tonedeaf story's and complaining about Cyclops

>people like teen heroes because of their struggle to maintain both their personal and superheroic lives at once
>put them on a team where all of them are superheroes the entire time and none of them have any real personal struggle

>>88341842

>isis

What the hell, Waid?

>>88341853
>Responding to transparent shitposters
Why do you do this?'
He's gonna be here greentexting til you stop feeding him (you)s.

>>88341868
>Then it's just boring tonedeaf story's and complaining about Cyclops
Sounds like the last few years of X-men comics.

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Champions
> old guy making hamfisted politicial commentaries through children
> cringy ISIS plot
> shit art

Teen Titans

> SHILLSHILLSHILL
> Damianfagging
> All annoying TT characters plus new 52 Wally
> editorially kneecapping Titans to overshadow them

I'm glad both bombed.

>Champions
>team with literally who outside of Cyclops
>47

>Teen Titans
>SON OF BATMAN (most shilled character in years)
>BEAST BOY (classic character with two tv shows)
>Starfire (same as above)
>40

Woah, it's pretty embarrassing for DC considering they wasted months shilling the book.

>>88341842
Scholastic's business model wouldn't work for a monthly ongoing comic. A single one, like a standalone or #1, does because they're selling to elementary and middle schoolers. People without much disposable income, just what they get from their parents. The book fairs would happen once a semester or once a quarter, so there would be no outlet for providing ongoing issues (so monthlies don't work), selling the new issues doesn't work because it assumes that they've already read the previous issues, and selling multiple issues at once is poor business since they'd only buy #2 if they're also buying #1 which cuts the number of #2s when you could just get a different comic's #1.

Point is, no, it's a one-time deal.

>>88341896
Can you go one day without shitposting?

>>88341892
> editorially kneecapping Titans to overshadow them
How did you come to this conclusion?

>>88341896
All of Damian's movies bombed. Beast Boy and Starfire aren't big names either. Kamala and Miles alone are arguably bigger and more relevant than the two.

Also, what's with this sudden talk of DC aggressively shilling Teen Titans? I mean it had a small teaser in Rebirth but other than that, I don't see any Champions tier shilling. Or is this just Dick and Wallyfags butthurt that Titans isn't selling much better and resorted to just blaming it on Teen Titans?

>>88341918
Only because it shows that Champions is doing better is not shitposting.

>>88341918
There is no shitposting about this. DC shilled TT non-stop and it's underperforming. It should have been on par with Flash or Tec..

>>88341896
Damien is so hit and miss as a character it hurts. Only bright spot is his team ups with Super Son.

How about we just start up another young justice book with those two headlining like the old days, but don't forget to make it fun.

/co/ is getting a little too giddy

If you take out Marvel's events, Annuals, and #1 issues, Champions #2 is Marvel's 5th best selling comic. It also went to a second printing. Marvel's #2 always have a huge drop but some of them stabilize relatively quickly like what happened with Black Panther. /co/ shouldn't celebrate just yet.

>>88341945
>Also, what's with this sudden talk of DC aggressively shilling Teen Titans? I mean it had a small teaser in Rebirth but other than that
Dude, TT got a full page and half in Direct Current magazine while all the rest (except the A-lister characters) got half or even less than half.

DC has been shilling this book hard.

>>88341892
>>88341896
>whines about being accused of companywarring
>keeps companywarring
lol

>>88341896

Teen Titans is also fully returnable. It will get that big drop all the Rebirth books got once that runs out. People really need to wait a couple months and see where the sales are at.

>>88341945
>what's with this sudden talk of DC aggressively shilling Teen Titans?
Just some angry mouseketeer.

>>88342019
See?

>>88341892
>>88341896
These are troll posts, right? Rebirth Teen Titans are alread the best the book has ever been since the golden age of Wolfman & Perez.

>>88341655
Try Worm.

>>88341945
>Also, what's with this sudden talk of DC aggressively shilling Teen Titans?

Teen Titans legitimately had Grant Gustin shilling for them. I'm not kidding.

>>88342072
>it's OK if Marvel does it

>>88342080
It's not OK when Marvel did it either.

>>88342087
>>88342080
Shilling for a good book like TT is OK. Shilling for a bad one like Champions isn't.

By the way, why do I have the impression that the oldfags here would cum diamonds if the New Warriors went back?

>>88342118
*came back

>>88342118
But TT isn't a good book either.

>>88342072
Not only him, bat writers like Seeley and King has been shilling it too.

>>88342034
Batwoman got a page, so did Batgirl. If you ignore the art pushing the paragraphs in the middle, Teen Titans would just have had a page too. Even so, if that's your definition of hard shilling then your an idiot. I'm talking incentives for the shops to actually stock this book, where's the crap ton of variants? The DC All Access Videos? The free copies? The online ads and viral campaigns.

>>88342072
Holy shit celebrities who play roles in Comic Book adaptions shill comics. Even so I have no idea what you're talking about, even did a quick google search

>>88342118
/co/ doesn't like OG NW. Every comment I've seen is "there's a reason they were cancelled".

>>88342178
OG?

>>88342139
> Seeley shills Teen Titans
> Not the book Dick actual stars on

It's really cringy.

>>88342153
TT got ALL online and viral campaigns. It was on par with all A-lister books like Flash and Wonder Woman. That's also why people think it's underselling.

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I've heard a bit about Champions over /co/ for a while now, but I don't know much about its controversy, though. Could someone explain what this means for Marvel? Was it just really overhyped and flopped on its debut or something? I'm assuming there's more to it since it's only issue 2, but isn't 47 out of the top 100 sales usually considered adequate?

>>88342192
why would he shill Nightwing? that would come off as desperate

>>88342264
before aany company fag answers;

Both TT and Champions were shilled to death to become definitive teen books on both companies. Champions became best seller thanks to jew tactics then tanked embarassingly in second issue and TT turned out to be DOA.

Now both DCfags and Marvelfags are crying.

>>88342153
>Batwoman got a page, so did Batgirl
Batwomen got a half page and the other half was for Tec. Batgirl has been shilled since N52 and DC has been treating her as A-lister because her merch sells well.

TT got a big ad in the magazine compared and to others and you can't deny that.

>>88342290
Dick is the leader of Titans and that book is completely ignored by everyone besides characterfags.

>>88342305
why would Tim "I am the only good Dick writer in history, and I am going to change and fix everything" Seeley shill for a Dick that isn't written by him

>>88341953
>DC shilled TT non-stop
No they didn't.

>it's underperforming
No it isn't.

>>88342192
>ALL Online and Viral Campaign
name one. Show me one.

>>88342058
This is a troll thread, anon. About a third of the posts are troll posts.

>>88342305
What the fuck are you talking about? It's literally the first book people point out whenever someone asks for a book that they should follow that would be dealing with the Rebirth mystery.

I would love to buy TT but I don't like how Damian is writing there. Which is ironic because they advertised with him.

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>>88341378
>tfw you can't use "I'm buying it for the art" excuse
I was only reading Extraordinary X-Men for the art and jumped ship when Ramos came over to Champions.

He'd be great if this was being written as a goofy fun cartoon-y title rather than Old Man Waid's #WokeAdventures.

>>88342058
>pointing out that a book with Damian Wayne, Starfire, Beast Boy and Flash fighting Ra's Al Ghul should be doing better than Champions is a troll post

not that I mind, fuck Percy and his Batman hate

>>88341543

Is this game any good? It's free but also 25gb download on my slow-ass connection.

>>88342364
Since you said one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpGqRQGRzxw

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>>88342293
Thanks.

>>88342354
>>88342290

Joshua Williamson also only shills for Teen Titans even though he claims himself to be a Wallyfag. Maybe it's a higher up issue?

>>88342071
>Try Worm.
I was actually following along as that was being written serially ... dude was AMAZINGLY fast.

>>88342393
Try again you dunce, even Brad Walker had an Art Academy Video and I don't see you saying Aquaman's been aggressively shilled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lb12e5ooBQ

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>>88342293
>jew tactics

I real answer would be preferable to delusional /pol/ buzzwords.

>>88342489

Everyone gave up on trying to ignore shilling once Direct Currents were out, maybe you should too.

>>88342516
>real answer would be preferable
Not the anon you're responding to, but it's hardly a secret how hard they were shilling Champions:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/09/16-retailer-exclusive-covers-for-marvels-champions-1/

>>88342393
And if we're talking DC All Access Videos, even fucking Deathstroke (A title that most /co/mrades say isn't shilled at all) has more videos than Teen Titans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6B9oiWaUaQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUwFRPy0LjQ

>>88342525
It had half a page more, how the fuck is that hard shilling?

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>>88341388

>>88342293
>TT turned out to be DOA
I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm glad, Avengers is currently more interesting with Kang.

>>88342293
>Both TT and Champions were shilled to death to become definitive teen books on both companies
This. They even moved Titans to tge second week to help TT sells.

>>88342178
I like OG NW, but there's a reason they don't make comics like New Teen Titans anymore. And New Warriors has all of those same reasons.

>>88342293
>second issue and TT turned out to be DOA
Reeeealy didn't help that Jonboy bailed due to "creative differences" right after giving an interview where he said the last thing he wanted to do was rehash Trigon for the Nth time.

>>88342118
Let's be honest here, OG New Warriors was pretty much following roughly the same formula as Champions does now.
Especially with the super-topical super heroics that the grown ups just don't pay any attention to.

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>>88342516

For people who do't speak pizzeria gunman, Champions was incredibly shilled. There was an advert on every Marvel comic for months about it.

It payed off for Issue 1 but the cringe already set in. "Let's make a team" followed by an image of them all hashtagging on a pile of rubble they made. my god.

>>88341649
Naw, man. Something like Ed Brubaker's or (as much as I can't stand his guts) Greg Rucka's comics are "told in a serious manner".
"Takes itself too seriously" would apply better in this situation.

>>88343005
>It payed off for Issue 1
Nah, someone just ordered a couple hundred thousand issues for whatever.

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>>88343005
>hashtagging
If you think that was bad you should read the second issue, anon. Waid's going for Marville levels of "holy shit this is bad!"

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>>88341378
>you can't use "I'm buying it for the art" excuse
Implying.

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>>88341840
I don't get it either, anon.

>>88342305
Sorry, I didn't catch any of that over the cheers of "WALLY WALLY WALLY!"

>>88343118
>Ramosfags
Well, I'm not surprised. There are Landfags, anyway.
I'm one of them.

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>>88343268
>I don't get it either, anon.
I'm saying it's fetishists; but it's fetishists.

>>88343323
>Bat-character worried about muh popularitay
Casualness, the main characteristic of every DC hater.

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>>88342072
At least pick a good actor from your shows to shill comics, geez.

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>>88343391
I'm not even sure why I'm surprised anymore after the "politics is a contact sport" threads.

>>88343516
>Booster and Beetle after J'onn discovers their prank.jpg

>>88343540
Sauce for that story? I can't believe I haven't read it yet.

>>88343604
If you're talking about the Chocos story, I have no idea which issues it was, but if you're talking about the one in the image. I believe it's from I Can't Believe It's Not The Justice League which was in JLA Classified. I'll storytime it tomorrow if you want to,

>>88342389
Yeah. I can appreciate his style in a cartoony tone, but Waid is trying to mix his tone in what seems to be real life problems and whatever the tone is for sex slavery clowns.

>>88341392
It's not much of a bromance with Mile's being mute most of the time.

>>88343391
Christ, you WISH you could get with Stinger, Miles.

>>88343344
>Being a fucking Landfag
genuine question
what is there to like about his art

>>88343648
>I'll storytime it tomorrow if you want to,
Please do.

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>>88343648
CHOCOS!!! story is Martian Manhunter #24 (1998) I believe.

... and Storytime is always awesome.

>>88343806
neat, should I storytime the preceding Formerly Known as the Justice League as well? I'll just have to download the files.

>>88343829
Looking for it. Thanks.

>>88343839
Sure, why not?

>>88343839
Sounds good to me.

Teen Titans hasn't been a good franchise in at least a decade. DC needs to give it a break.

Champions however is a hilarious disaster.

>>88343118
MY GOD SOMEBODY STOP HIM HE'S EATING HER!

>>88343977
>a decade
teen titans hasn't been good since the fucking 80s.

>>88344060
Like the X-Men ;_;

>>88344072
X-men shit the bed in the early 10s. TTs been consistant shit since its 1980s run was over. it turned into young justice in the ninties which managed to be good. But I don't know how a title can consistently bomb for three decades and still be a thing.

>>88344133
I liked the Johns run. Until Infinite Crisis in which it became too edgy.

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>>88344133
>I don't know how a title can consistently bomb for three decades and still be a thing.
Because they're too good to fail, anon.

>>88343977
They need to retire a good deal of characters in TT and YJ.

Tim, Kon, Cassie have zero personality and only exist because of 90s fanboys. Only Bart deserves a revival because he fills a void no other character can. Let them go to college and leave superheroics behind. Same for garbage characters like Raven and Beast Boy.

Then revamp the entire thing with a brand new cast and a Bat-character. Not trying to pretend whatever came first didn't exist but in a way that they left it behind.

>>88343472
I hate how they're wasting him. We will never have him as Eobard again.

>>88344195
>garbage characters like Raven and Beast Boy
Stop watching TTG, casual.

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>>88343648
You're right about sauce, issue #4. Guess who entered the comic.

>>88341343
I am not familiar with ranking.
What rank does a comic have to be to cinsidered a success?

>>88341945
>All of Damian's movies bombed

According to sales or according to /co/?

>>88344285
#1 in sales, millions of issues sold. Without incentive covers, Lootcrate and similar shit.

>>88344317
What's the difference? Here in /co/ sales = quality.

>>88341343
[Fart]

>>88341388
>B...but DC!

I'm so fucking glad Marlel is going out of business

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>>88344317
Not that anon but pic related. What I see, it's same shit as usual.

>>88344285
It depends on expectations. It it's something from young animal, they don't expect it to be top 10, but top 100 is pretty good. If it's batman, not being top 10 would be a pretty damn big surprise.

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>>88343118
>>88343983
It reminds me of pic related from Ultimatum

>>88344364
They really wanted Ultimate Universe to crash and burn.

>>88344355

Meh, those are already good numbers and they will get bigger with the years, advantage of the cheap direct to dvd movies.

>>88344341

So the movie was great then >>88344355

>>88344388
Yeah. Shame for Gods and Monsters. Fucking shame.

>>88344355
compare them to other Batman movies

>>88344419
Personally I am not that much of a fan of this movie but it was hell lot better than Throne of Atlantis.

>>88341633
Hey man, that Clown sex slaver was a criminal genius.
Engaging in human trafficking in broad daylight, then trying to drown your sex slaves to ''dispose of the evidence?''
It's the perfect crime!

>>88344236
You know they are one-note characters. Beast Boy can be a comedic relief at least but Raven's story is long done.

>>88341950
>Champions is doing better
LOL

>>88341343
Oh fuck yes, is it getting canned?

>>88344461
>capes are one-note characters
STOP PRESSES

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>>88344437
Unless I'm fucking shit up it goes
>UtRH
>Gotham Knight
>TKJ
>Son of Batman
>The Dark Knight Returns 1
>Year One
>Assault on Arkham
>Bad Blood
>JL vs TT
>The Dark Knight Returns 2
>Batman vs Robin
>>88344448
True that. Notmuh was too strong for me to enjoy ToA, anyway.

>>88344195
>Tim, Kon, Cassie have zero personality and only exist because of 90s fanboys.
casual pls

I kinda like this book. It actually makes sense that a book about millennial teens is full of politics, unlike every other marvel book that does it. I think Waid's writing style really fits teens too, which is why I haven't liked his other Avengers books due to him writing them all like teens. Also I thought the microaggresion joke was funny as fuck, and Viv obviously meant it as one.

>>88344650
those are all Gen Z

>>88344671
Well then it makes even more sense

>>88343005
So do they at least have a dude who is computer stupid and doesn't use all that shit? They're still out there.

>>88344650
>I think Waid's writing style really fits teens too, which is why I haven't liked his other Avengers books due to him writing them all like teens. Also I thought the microaggresion joke was funny as fuck
jesus dude have some standards

>>88343789
Different anon, but Before you fnd out about the tracing it seems okay.
Really, I just lumped him in with Hitch and the other photo ref reliant guys. I don't like any of that really, but Land's end product doesn't seem any worse than the others.

>>88344690
>jesus dude have some standards
Someone should tweet this to Marvel again.

>>88344750
I'm sure that Hitch still draws by hand and not with Poser.

>>88344764
I am sure Hitch actually draws as well; I just don't really like the end product. I respect hm as an artist, though, unlike Land.

Am I the only one who hates the art?

>>88341343
>yellow on black/blue
If only they got Chulk some nice blue and yellow pants and miles switched his red for yellow we could call them the X-ampions.

I wonder how triggered modern /co/ would have been by Waid's LoS, since it was pretty much this except space metaphors instead of real politics.

>>88342391
I love it

>>88344957
We'll have to wait for those two LoSHfags to tell us.

>>88344957
Waid's DC is good.

>>88344355
They aren't bad, they aren't good either.

>>88344957
reboot or threeboot?

>>88345078
Indeed. They sells mainly because they are Batman movies, but the numbers are still not satisfying and WB needs to make some serious changes in their animated movies department.

>>88341459
That's not King's Batman.

>>88341343
I can't pay what I don't have.

>>88343062
Viv is great in Vision.

Waid seems to miss the point of Viv.

>>88341633
>3. ISIS can easily be defeated by a group of teenage super heroes.

>Just slap them around, let them go and then you leave the country. What could possibly go wrong.

>>88342019
>If you take out Marvel's events, Annuals, and #1 issues, Champions #2 is Marvel's 5th best selling comic.

So taking out:

Civil War II
Invincible Iron Man
Renew Your Vows
Venom
IVX
Avengers
Unworthy Thor
Star Wars Annual #2
Clone Conspiracy
Ghost Rider
Black Panther World of Wakanda
Thanos
Death of X
ASM Annual #1

Would make Champions be Marvel's 5th best-selling comic, but wouldn't that mean it's still getting outperformed by DC comics in their 8th to 11th issues?

>>88345585
That second sentence applies to everyone in Champions.
Waid thinks they're his mouth pieces

>>88346126
It's a
>All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
situation.

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>>88342264
Champions was marketed as the flagship title for the new Marvel Now, and there was also a big deal about getting the name back because another company had it (and technically still does; Marvel had to pay to use it). It also was a way of putting young characters that either have a fanbase or that Marvel wanted to push into one title.

There was a big push since Marvel had multiple variants made (similar with Invincible Iron Man #1 last year) but also got a variant into Loot Crate or Nerd Block or one of those other boxes, and rumored to have sold copies to Scholastic for their Book Fairs. So you'd expect a book with this much push to do well in preorders (and it did, though it got beat out by the first issue of the Big Trouble in Little China/Escape From New York crossover, which was included in Loot Crate)

But the reaction from retailers reporting on how well Champions #1 sold paints a different story.

>>88346352
Marvel overhypes the fuck out of shit. Sure these characters have their own fanbases but you have to make them want them being on a team with others while not losing them to a spotlight.
Like Miles doesnt even fucking talk.
Marvel should have did more for the prelaunch.

>>88343062
The more I think about it, the more it seems like Viv was just trolling Kamala for interrupting her kiss. However, it doesn't change the fact that the sudden mention of microaggressions was awkward, the joke was painfully unfunny, and the book is filled with so much trash that you can't blame those who thought Waid was serious with this. particular moment.

>>88346629
Nice headcanon, bro.

>>88346352
And then in November it got mentioned that Marvel was sending extra copies of Champions and other titles to retailers who didn't order much. Normally they did this in the past with a title or two, but what a lot of retailers found unusual is that they were doing it for multiple titles this time around. And you wouldn't expect it to happen with a book that's been pushed as flagship.

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>>88346698
Forgot pic.

I hope all comics die

When the movies are miles above something is wrong

this thread is fucking stupid

>>88349441
>>88347127
You could've just said Bump and it'd have the same effect

>>88346195
>what have the Romans ever done for us?
Brought peace?

>>88341746
The difference is Teen Titans wasn't marketed as a flagship title

>>88341953
And marvel didn't shill Champions? What kinda crack are you on?

>>88347127
>marvel is all comics

End this meme

>>88342516
>flaming c rebirth never

>>88341953
> DC shilled TT non-stop
> HOLY SHIT HALF A PAGE MORE IN DIRECT CURRENTS
You're making it sound like DC went to fucking lengths to make sure people knew about the Teen Titans

>>88341343
They should give the book to a different writer. Like Wilson or Duggan.

>>88351520
I don't think there was any way this book could have not been garbage

>>88351520
Maybe get a different artist too

>>88344671
Cho is around 19 years old last time I checked. That makes him a Millennial.

Source: A 20 year old Millennial.

Champions 001 (2016) (digital) (Oroboros-DCP)
http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/djuaY3Oc/file.html

Champions 002 (2016) (digital) (Oroboros-DCP)
http://www95.zippyshare.com/v/PKZrGVaR/file.html

Champions 003 (2017) (digital) (Oroboros-DCP)
http://www102.zippyshare.com/v/fFh0tIpZ/file.html

>>88354473
nigga I ain't downloading that shit LOL

>>88346629

I read it as Viv trying for a joke and failing, then being interrupted before should could explain.

But Waid never goes back and clears it up so we're left with whats on the page and only on the page, which was painful cringe.

>Kamala didn't kiss Viv in #3
>sales plummet
>now series will try to find an excuse for Kamala and Viv to play tonsil-hockey before the series is canned

>>88355452
I don't think a lack of a lesbos is what's killing interest in this.

>>88354473
lmaoooooooooo

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>>88343062
>see Viv in Champions advert
>neat
>see Waid's name in Champions advert
>ok
>read Champions

Also, the best part of HIS Daredevil was always Rivera/Samnee.

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>>88341655
I hope TT dies, so Beast boy and Raven finaly grow up and then let be BB be cool again, something like pic related needs to happen

>>88346352

Just like how Remender's Uncanny Avengers was supposedly the flagship of whatever that relaunch was called

>>88341682
INCREASE THE SOUPERS

>>88342389
>not reading Uncanny for the art
WHOA HOLD THE FUCK UP!

/s

>>88342264
>vlc.jpg

>>88356634
also Marvel Now

>>88343344
>>88343789
>>88344750
>people on /co/ liking >Land

I don't wanna believe.

Look, I've said I think Land could be "good", were he not so lazy. His layouts are inoffensive, he has a decent eye for anything that isn't a 2 page spread, and he does a good job of accenting the subtleties in a writing of a scene. He's just so lazy. Fuck. Like if you've ever read the issues where they go to tabula rasa, there are some really cool things going on on the pages, but the fucking tracing reeeee

>>88356035
>Also, the best part of HIS Daredevil was always Rivera/Samnee.
I agree. Also those Martin issues. unf

I really did like his DD although the Bullseye in a can arc was a huge drag.
Never read his second volume.

The sooner it dies the better. That fucking book ruins Kamala in every chance it gets.

Was there not already an Avengers book with Kamala, Sam and Miles on it? Also by Waid?

>>88359060
Unfortunately, yes.

>>88359060
Yes. It was All-New All-Different Avengers.

>>88359166
>>88359092
What happened? Did not sell?

>>88359237
Uncanny >Land-men was back to outselling it (at its worst numbers since like forever), so no.

>>88359237

Civil War split the team. Kids left because they don't wanna deal with adults bullshit. Now it's just Avengers

>>88359237
Well it's kinda consistent but I don't think these are the numbers they wanted.

11/15 ANAD Avengers #1 - 128,570
12/15 ANAD Avengers #2 - 67,154 (-47.8%)
01/16 ANAD Avengers #3 - 57,584 (-14.3%)
01/16 ANAD Avengers #4 - 57,114 (- 0.8%)
02/16 ANAD Avengers #5 - 51,740 (- 9.4%)
02/16 ANAD Avengers #6 - 48,022 (- 7.2%)
03/16 ANAD Avengers #7 - 52,631 (+ 9.6%) (Stand Off)
04/16 ANAD Avengers #8 - 51,925 (- 1.3%) (Stand Off)
05/16 ANAD Avengers #9 - 52,296 (+ 0.7%)
06/16 ANAD Avengers#10 - 44,965 (-14.0%)
06/16 ANAD Avengers#11 - 42,788 (- 4.8%)
07/16 ANAD Avengers#12 - 46,313 (+ 8.2%)
08/16 ANAD Avengers#13 - 46,257 (- 0.1%)
09/16 ANAD Avengers#14 - 45,509 (- 1.7%) (CV2)

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>>88356102
There should be the Titans for Wolfman and Perez's crew from back in the day (including Cyborg) so they can grow up after being in comics for 30 years. Then Young Justice for Robin of the moment, Superboy, Wonder Girl, and random sidekicks and OCs.

>>88361916
Miller? As in Bryan Q Miller?

>>88364867
Yes.

>>88346629
It's definitely a Poe's Law thing

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>>88366022

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>>88366038

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>>88366097

>>88341343
I feel like this would have gone over better without the mini Cyclops and Hulk making it feel weirder and more convoluted than it has to be.

>>88344285
The ranking is an indication of sales, although not as precise as an exact number

>What rank does a comic have to be to cinsidered a success?
Depends on the comic.

Comics with popular characters should be more popular, so have a higher requirement. Comics that have been pushed into the limelight by their publisher should be more successful.

Champions falls very hard into that second category. Marvel tried very hard to make it a thing. It's "lack of success" is due to it's mediocrity.

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>>88366111

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>>88366167

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>>88366219

>>88341409
Return of Barry Allen is still the best Flash story ever and it's not like the Speed Force mattered there.

But Waid was young and blew all his good ideas then.

What the fuck? The last time I checked the catalog this post was all the way at the bottom. Now it's at the top.

>>88361916
Yes, can't wait to see another comic ruined by Damian.

>>88366022
>'nonymous postin' "Strange Fruit",
>
>
>"Strange Fruit" posted in the "Champions" thread.

can't be assed to make up the other two lines

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>>88366242

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>>88366285

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>>88366302

>>88357320
>I really did like his DD although
I wonder how much of that was Samnee? I don't mean the artwork I mean the actual writing (because he's credited as co-writer on their current Black Widow run with is very similar to their DD run and NOTHING LIKE CHAMPIONS OR ANAD AVENGERS!)?

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>>88366506

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>>88366613

>>88341343
What was wrong with it? Can't be that bad.

>>88366436
I'm willling to give Waid credit.
Book was good before Samnee came on

Anybody have a link to the sales thread ?

>>88342391
It's genuinely a lot of fun. Floors 11-15 will kick your ass since you need to farm up again but it's fun. Hack and slash rogue like that doesn't fail to deliver on fun.

>>88341633
As shitty as the isis story was, at least admitting that they exist and are violent assholes is at least a change in pace.

>>88357054
To be fair, Land was a decent artist before he discovered tracing. That's why I find him so repulsive. It's not that he can't draw (his traced "art" would still be shit, but at least I'd find him sympathetic in a way), it's that he's a lazy fuck.

>>88346752
Unless you're glued to twitter nonstop, it's impossible to keep up with internet jargon.

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>>88341343

I said it would be funny to See Champions #2 sales fall lower than Teen Titans #2 after the misleading scholastic push but when I saw the low sales for TT #1 I thought I would have to eat my words. I'm honestly shocked. How did Marvel fuck up their "flagship" book so bad?

>>88366982
The premise and first issue were flawed as fuck. People want to see kid super heroes go on light-hearted adventures with some romance drama, not fight human trafficking clowns or ISIS.

>>88367029
I wouldn't mind it if the writer wasn't going senile and the tone clash wasn't so jarring.

>actually like every single character in the Champion line-up
>even Miles (when written by anyone other than Bendis)
>waid manages to completely fuck up every single one of them and write the most boring, ham-handed shitty comic I've read in a while

>>88367043
Waid is only 54.

>>88366982
>>88367029
Remember, these aren't actual books sold. These are units pushed to retailers, which aren't necessarily reflective of books actually sold to consumers.

The #1 sales, especially from Marvel, are almost always due to retailers buying additional books for incentive variants that they mark up when selling to make up for the extra copies of a book they are aware might not sell. Other times, there's a big order from companies like LootCrate or, as was the case with "Champions" #1, Scholastic.

>>88342389
What is this webcomic shit?

>>88367103
That's Ramos, man.

>>88367118
Looks like Bachalo, but then again I'm alwaus mixing those talentless hacks up.

>>88367118
Oh fuck. Sorry I insulted webcomic artists.

>>88367076
is he the oldest writer Marvel employs

>>88367130
No, that's EXM. Ramos.

>>88342389
Did OMLogan get bit by a moloid and is, therefore, turning into one?

>>88367146
Jim Starlin is 67.

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>>88341343
I guess they ain't woke.

>>88367146
Marvel doesn't hire writers, they just have interns fill in bubbles the artists leave on their work.

>>88367196
Wouldn't she be able to just look at twitter inside her head? Why use her hand as a phone?

>>88367151

I love Ramos. But he's bought the SJW vibe. Poor dude.

>>88367211
She wants to fit in ;-;

>>88367234
and everyone else is pink with green hair and white eyes and looks at their hands

if she wanted to fit in she could get a paint job

>>88367246
Stop being robophobic, it's almost 2017.

>>88367196
>finally woke
What does that even mean?

>>88367253
PoC version of red pill.

>>88367253
watching a bunch of teenage superheroes stop a joker wannabe made people realize that kidnapping children into slavery is a bad thing

>>88367253
It's the black precursor to redpilled.

>>88367076
Early onset dementia is unlikely, but possible.

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>>88367253
It's the SJW Redpill.

It's being woke to the Patriarchy and being Kangs and shit

>>88367164
Jesus

>>88367272
I think the worst thing about Champions is that missed a prime opportunity to have The BlJoker, Blclown Blprince of Blcrime, traffic sex slaves into the country by transporting them inside a tiny clown car.

>>88367081
The Scholastic part is a bit funny, because I'm picturing a teacher or a parent having a flip through Champions #1, only to discover the part with human sex slave trafficking.

>>88356634
And Invincible Iron Man was the flagship of All New All Different Marvel.