Doctor Strange is such a bad movie, it has so many plotholes.

>>88265798

>>Why did Wong lie to Strange about knowing Beyonce?
>>Why was the ancient one white, bald, British and calm in the movie instead of asian and mysterious like in the comic? Complete mischaracterization.
>>Why did they completely change Mordo as a character?
>>Why did Deadpool make more money than it?

>>88265798
>Why was Strange's cape alive?
Fucking really?

>>88265798
>Why was Strange's cape alive?
I stopped reading here, fucking seriously?!

>>88265965
>>88266101
they never explain it in the movie, if you say magic then thats headcanon.

Like this anon explains

>>88248448 (Cross-thread), >>88248236 (Cross-thread)
>>88248078 (Cross-thread)

If its not explicitly shown then its wrong.

>>88266101
>>88265965
>HA I FOUND ONE ARGUMENT I DONT LIKE SO FUCK THE REST OF YOUR LIST

none of these are plotholes

Why did anyone think Mads was a good actor?
Why did anyone think Cum-whatever was a good actor?
Why do these faggoty actors from shitty tween shows like Doctor Who or Sherlock still get jobs?

>>88266153
None of these are plot holes just you baiting, or your that dumb.

>>88266175
>>88266232
they are the same kind of plot holes posted
>>88246466
>>88246492
why are you disagreeing with your fellow marvel fans?

>>88265798
>>>How did Doctor Strange's cape know where the armor thing was?
why wouldn't it know?
>>>Why was Strange's cape alive?
Did you want a Cloak of Levitation origin story in the movie? Also, irrelevant information being left out is not a plothole.
>>>What was the point of Strange learning all that magic if most of the spells he does throughout the movie rely on artifacts anyway?
Because the weapons and shields and astral form etc. don't rely on artifacts and everything that does rely on artifacts still requires knowledge of magic and how to use them
>They are making Strange really dumb compared to his comic counter part and really out of character.
how so?
>>>How long did Strange actually train for?
about a year probably, since he started in 2016 and ended right before Thor:Ragnarok. Once again, that not everything is spelled out all the time is not a plothole.
>>>Why was he on the dangerous person list in Winter Soldier if he was just an asshole doctor?
Because he was a genious asshole doctor
>>>Why does he even want to save people if his only tie to the rest of the world is just a girl that doesn't even want to be with him?
Because he wants fame and money. Also, his sister died and he failed to save her, but that was cut out of the movie, so it doesn't count.
>>>How did he know the time thing would work on Dormamu? How did he know Dormamu wouldn't be stronger than that?
How do you know he knew? Seemed more like an educated guess based on his observations.
>>>Why not use the Eye to bring back the Ancient One?
Because she always died at that point, no matter what. Even the ancient one herself couldn't prevent it. Also, messing with time is too dangerous. And she already lived way longer than she was supposed to anyway thanks to forbidden magic.

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>>88266142

On the other thread the Snyderfag say:

>well,for BvS plot to work I have to presume that Gothan and Metropolis law is different on their world, so it is not ilegal to blown the city with rockets, and all characters can ignore what happened.

Being compared to:
>huuuur they never say that it is magic

>They literally call it a magical artifact
>animate cape
>being kept in a room full of magical artifacts
>in a building built on one of the three nexuses of power of Earth
>"where do they ever say that in the movie, tell me"


So for the plot of BvS to work you need to justify bad characterization and stupid behavior by claiming that in that world the justice system is different.

While with Doctor Strange you have to accept that a magical item exist in a location made for magical itens.


Seriously?

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>>88265798


It was there observing things for decades if not centuries.
Magic.
To power the artifacts.
Six months.
Because he's a skilled asshole doctor, enough so that if Hydra wanted to kill someone he could get in their way.
Because he's still a doctor, even if he's a douchebag.
He didn't. All he had to go on was conjecture from Dorammu's minions. Strange got insanely lucky and it's pretty clear that trick won't work a second time.
Only the ones in the final battle. They were shown but if you blink you'll miss it.
By not returning to her body she made it clear that she thought it was her time to go and Strange respected that. Or possibly because she was fucking with the dark dimension.
Magic. Conversely who's to say she wasn't?
Same reason why you don't hand a toddler a loaded gun without teaching him gun safety.
Quantum mechanics. All dimensions exist. Also magic.
To save more for the sequels.
He doesn't want to destroy Earth. He wants to add it to his collection.
Because he was a templar rules lawyer bitch. And also because he was butthurt that everyone gets to flout the rules but him. He's literally doing what you're doing right now and going "OH BUT IT'S OKAY WHEN STRANGE DOES IT"
Because the only Avenger that can do shit about magic is Thor and he's off world most of the time.
Yes. Magicians are often selfish assholes. This is hardly news.

So, what were you trying to prove with this post again?

>>>How was the Ancient One feeding of Dormamu without being corrupted?
She wasn't feeding of Dormammu, but she did have a link to the dark dimension. There are presumably ways to draw from the dark dimension safely, but they are super dangerous and complex.
>>>Why did she not want people to feed off Dormamu if she could do so safely?
Because others didn't have her skill and even just one person becoming corrupted would turn out to be a disaster.
>>>Why does the mirror dimension exist?
Why are there spells for protection? Why is there even magic? Why does the real world exist? You want to have a movie about the origin of the mirror dimension?
>>>If there are supposedly countless dimensions why do they only go to the mirror one and dark one?
Because the other ones are not important? Do you want the entire movie to be just dimension hopping to alternate realities with different histories? Also, there were more when the ancient one told Strange to "open his eye"
>>>Why does Dormamu want to destroy earth? He literally has no motivation?
He doesn't. He wants to make it part of his dimension so he has more control over the multiverse and more mindless ones to do his bidding.
>>>Why does the guy turn on Strange at the end? That was really out of no where and sudden and didn't make any sense.
Because he has a dark past and the ancient one was the only reason he bettered himself but then it turned out she was a lying hypocrite who used forbidden magic for her own gains so he didn't want anything to do with this shit anymore.
>>>Why didn't the magic people help when aliens invade? Are they just being selfish assholes? If the world gets invaded then they are fucked, they are being really dumb.
Because there were other important things going on and the Avengers seemed to have it under relative control, probably. If the Avengers were defeated they'd probably interfere.

>>88265798
>>How did Doctor Strange's cape know where the armor thing was?
Because it was alive.
>>Why was Strange's cape alive?
Magic

>>How long did Strange actually train for?
6 months, give or take a few.

>>Why was he on the dangerous person list in Winter Soldier if he was just an asshole doctor?
He was influential, well known and rich. The algorithm is to track anyone who could potentially be dangerous.

>>Why does he even want to save people if his only tie to the rest of the world is just a girl that doesn't even want to be with him?
Originally they included a minor subplot about his sister and her tragic end. Also he wants to be in control.

>>How did he know the time thing would work on Dormamu? How did he know Dormamu wouldn't be stronger than that?
He didn't.

>>Did all the other disciples that were killed by Dormamu come back to life too? If so why aren't they shown at the end? If not, why not? Wong came back?
Yes, the building was reversed.

>>How was the Ancient One feeding of Dormamu without being corrupted?
The entire point was that she had finally embraced her fate.


>>How was the Ancient One feeding of Dormamu without being corrupted?
>>Why did she not want people to feed off Dormamu if she could do so safely?
She wasn't directly feeding Dormammu, she had likely made a deal to sell her soul on her death. She was a hypocrite fueled by fear.

>>Why does Dormamu want to destroy earth? He literally has no motivation?
He is a conquering dick. This has always been his motivation.

>>Why didn't any of the other Avengers help when magic bombs were going off?
The Avengers are in shambles and they don't know dick about mystical stuff. Additionally the destruction of the one that matters, the Hong Kong sanctum, was reversed with presumably know one outside of the sorcerers knowing abut it. We don't know why they didn't help with the Chitauri or more importantly the Dark Eldar.

>>88265798
>why was the cape alive!

Are you confused Matthew? You sound like Confused Matthew

it never fails to impress me what kids today consider plot holes

a plot hole is an inconsistency in the plot itself, even if it is a ridiculous plot.

For example if in scene 1 Doctor Strange memorizes every fact in the universe, but then in scene 10 doesn't know something simple

>>88266361
>why wouldn't it know?
Because they never explain how it knows, thats your headcanon


>Did you want a Cloak of Levitation origin story in the movie? Also, irrelevant information being left out is not a plothole.
But they dont explain it, its a dues ex machina in the form of a cape


>Because the weapons and shields and astral form etc. don't rely on artifacts and everything that does rely on artifacts still requires knowledge of magic and how to use them
But why arent there spells to do what the artifacts do like in the comics? Seems contrived and only there to create fake tension for when people get their sling rings stolen.


>how so?
Because in the comics he doesn't need artifacts to do most of the magic he does. They basically made him a magic cripple.
>about a year probably, since he started in 2016 and ended right before Thor:Ragnarok. Once again, that not everything is spelled out all the time is not a plothole.
Headcanon, and thats not nearly enough time to learn everything he had to learn.


>Because he was a genious asshole doctor
What could a doctor do agains Hydra?
>Because he wants fame and money.
When is that ever said? And he never gets that so he had a shitty motivation. Not very heroic either. Why does Disney make their characters so unlikable? That goes against screenwriting 101, its not good to have unlikable heroes.


>How do you know he knew? Seemed more like an educated guess based on his observations.
Well thats dumb, he just guessed and got lucky? Shitty writing.


>Because she always died at that point, no matter what. Even the ancient one herself couldn't prevent it. Also, messing with time is too dangerous. And she already lived way longer than she was supposed to anyway thanks to forbidden magic.
Thats not confirmed in the movie, headcanon.

>>88266381
they never call the cape a magic artifact in the movie

and Doctor Strange and Iron Man have to change the laws of physics to work....

and we have no idea what happens in BvS with the guards, maybe they do get arrested for having rockets, maybe Lex has special permits to protect his stuff with rockets, but regardless thats not relevant to the story just like the exact origins of the cape aren't relevent to the plot of Strange

>>88266402
>It was there observing things for decades if not centuries.
Thats headcanon, they never explain that in the movie


>Magic.
Also headcanon, never explained.


>To power the artifacts.
Again, never explained, the artifacts aren't introduced until way later in his training.

>Because he's a skilled asshole doctor, enough so that if Hydra wanted to kill someone he could get in their way.
Why? Why does a single doctor pose a threat, they never explain it.

>Because he's still a doctor, even if he's a douchebag.
That didn't answer the question.
>He didn't. All he had to go on was conjecture from Dorammu's minions. Strange got insanely lucky and it's pretty clear that trick won't work a second time.
Thats stupid, why would a character who is a doctor act so irrationally? That is really out of character for him.


>Only the ones in the final battle. They were shown but if you blink you'll miss it.
They weren't shown coming back to life, headcanon
>By not returning to her body she made it clear that she thought it was her time to go and Strange respected that. Or possibly because she was fucking with the dark dimension.
Oh, so no actual explanation, got it.
>Magic. Conversely who's to say she wasn't?
Well they never showed that she wasnt, so headcanon.
>Same reason why you don't hand a toddler a loaded gun without teaching him gun safety.
Then why not teach them to do it?
>Quantum mechanics. All dimensions exist. Also magic.
Never explained, headcanon.


>To save more for the sequels.
So they were acting retarded and out of character for meta reasons?
>He doesn't want to destroy Earth. He wants to add it to his collection.
But why? And they specifically say he wants Earth more than any other for no reason.
>Because the only Avenger that can do shit about magic is Thor and he's off world most of the time.
Anyone could have damaged Mads, and they didn't know it was a magical attack. No reason for Tony not to try and help.

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>>88266343
Ah, so that's what this is about.

>>88266343
that guy's an idiot too

now stop baiting

>>88265799
>>Why did Wong lie to Strange about knowing Beyonce?
because he didn't want Strange to be less intimidated by him for it.
>>Why was the ancient one white, bald, British and calm in the movie instead of asian and mysterious like in the comic? Complete mischaracterization.
He was bald in the comic as well. Besides that, they changed it so it's a different ancient one who's Celtic for reasons that are probably political. Being different from the source material, however, is not a plothole
>>Why did they completely change Mordo as a character?
Because he was never really interesting in the comics and if they did the original storyline they would basically end up with what Kaecillius was now, which would waste Stranges arch enemy on a single movie and barely give him any motivation, instead of setting him up for sequels by giving him more of a backstory and a past where he was friendly with Strange.
>>Why did Deadpool make more money than it?
Because people were more hype for Deadpool. How is this a plothole again?

>>88266438
Now days plotholes are shit these mongs arnt told.

It's like every one is taking that scene from futurama as ironic and not the fucking truth.

>You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!

>>88266484
>never call the cape an artifact

I think you should pay attention when you watch movies, it is very obvious if not outright explicitly said

>>88265798

>>What was the point of Strange learning all that magic if most of the spells he does throughout the movie rely on artifacts anyway? They are making Strange really dumb compared to his comic counter part and really out of character.
He is a novice. This is explicitly why he is never referred to as the Sorcerer Supreme. Did you even pay attention during the scene where he puts the eye back.

>>Why does the guy turn on Strange at the end? That was really out of no where and sudden and didn't make any sense.
Because Strange, the Ancient One and by extension the rest of KhamarTag had broken the natural laws that he believes should be upheld.

>>Why does the mirror dimension exist?
Because it does.
>>If there are supposedly countless dimensions why do they only go to the mirror one and dark one?
They don't. During his trip he goes through 5 or 6, including what appears to be the Quantum Realm.

Literally just another BvS thread

>>88265798
>>>How did Doctor Strange's cape know where the armor thing was?

maybe because it was living in that shithole sanctum for ages

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>>88265798
>>88266175
>>88266232
>>88266426
>>88266438

>mfw Snyderfag got butthurt on the other thread

>mfw he is comparing "Why Lex made Doomsday if he can't control him and he doesn't know if Batman had killed Superman, thus making his creation useless?" With "huuur why do magic exist??????"

These guys no nothing about plot holes.

>>88266473
>Because they never explain how it knows, thats your headcanon

It was literally across the room in the case, is it a plot hole when you know your moms washer and dryer are in the same basement as you?

A plot hole is an inconsistency in the plot, not a random feature of a movie you didn't understand.

>>88266410
>There are presumably ways to draw from the dark dimension safely, but they are super dangerous and complex.
Never explained, headcanon. And if there are why horde that knowledge for herself?


>Because others didn't have her skill and even just one person becoming corrupted would turn out to be a disaster.
Then why even risk it herself? Why not teach people how not to be corrupted?


>Why are there spells for protection? Why is there even magic? Why does the real world exist? You want to have a movie about the origin of the mirror dimension?
So it just exists because the movie says so, okay. Thats bad writing though.
>Because the other ones are not important? Do you want the entire movie to be just dimension hopping to alternate realities with different histories? Also, there were more when the ancient one told Strange to "open his eye"
Its out of character for Strange not to go exploring all the dimensions though.


>He doesn't. He wants to make it part of his dimension so he has more control over the multiverse and more mindless ones to do his bidding.
But why? And they say he wants Earth more than any other planet, why is that?


>Because he has a dark past and the ancient one was the only reason he bettered himself but then it turned out she was a lying hypocrite who used forbidden magic for her own gains so he didn't want anything to do with this shit anymore.
So one hypocrite is enough to completely change his opinions? What a weak character, and a complete mischaracterization from comics Mordo.
>Because there were other important things going on and the Avengers seemed to have it under relative control, probably. If the Avengers were defeated they'd probably interfere.
Headcanon.

I'm wondering if BvS being good would have been better or even worse

>>88266616
BvS is perfect, you are just too stupid to grasp it.

>>88266424
>Because it was alive.
but he was stuck on the other side of the building, how did he know where the armor was?

> Magic
Never explicitly said in the movie. Could be an AI like Jarvis. Thats your headcanon.

>6 months, give or take a few.
But this guy said a year>>88266361
Which is it? And regardless thats not nearly enough time to learn what he needed to, especially compared to the other disciples who had been there much longer.
>He was influential, well known and rich. The algorithm is to track anyone who could potentially be dangerous.
But why just him as a doctor? Why didnt they mention any other doctors?


>Originally they included a minor subplot about his sister and her tragic end. Also he wants to be in control.
So something that literally isnt in the movie and is your headcanon? Also >>88266361 said it was for fame and money, which is it?

>He didn't.
So he just acted randomly? Thats really out of character.
>Yes, the building was reversed.
But they never shown them come back, and they werent all in the building when they died. They only showed Wong coming back.... so headcanon.
>The entire point was that she had finally embraced her fate.
But her fate could be changed so she was just acting dumb. And up until that point they show she was willing to do anything for power, why suddenly stop then? Poor characterization.
>She wasn't directly feeding Dormammu, she had likely made a deal to sell her soul on her death. She was a hypocrite fueled by fear.
So headcanon then, none of that is ever explained.


>He is a conquering dick. This has always been his motivation.
Thats not a motive at all, you are just saying he is evil for the sake of it, what bad writing.

>>88266424
>The Avengers are in shambles and they don't know dick about mystical stuff. Additionally the destruction of the one that matters, the Hong Kong sanctum, was reversed with presumably know one outside of the sorcerers knowing abut it. We don't know why they didn't help with the Chitauri or more importantly the Dark Eldar.


So Tony Stark and Spider-Man didn't give a shit that a bomb went off in New York? Wow, what terrible heroes.

>>88266438
would you consider these plotholes?
>>88246466
>>88246492

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>>88266616
I dont know anon, I just dont know

>>88266578
they never said everything in that room was magic

the eternal butthurt fallout from bvs is nothing short of glorious

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>>88266343

>Also you dont know that he didnt have kryptonite with him


Thanks for the links.

Its always great to see BvSfags being retarded.

>>88266539
they never say it in the movie anon, not everything in that building was an artifact, are you going to assuming the carpet and drapes were artifacts to? The wood paneling?

>>88266511
okay, as long as you also agree he is dumb

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>>88266641
perfectly awful as judged by 250 critics from around the world that get paid to not be wrong

>>88266533
>because he didn't want Strange to be less intimidated by him for it.
thats out of character for Wong from the comics


>He was bald in the comic as well. Besides that, they changed it so it's a different ancient one who's Celtic for reasons that are probably political. Being different from the source material, however, is not a plothole
so they changed it for stupid meta reasons? wow, why does marvel hate their source material so much.


>Because he was never really interesting in the comics and if they did the original storyline they would basically end up with what Kaecillius was now, which would waste Stranges arch enemy on a single movie and barely give him any motivation, instead of setting him up for sequels by giving him more of a backstory and a past where he was friendly with Strange.
So its okay for Marvel to change from the source material? I thought they weren't ashamed of it though. What a terrible adaptation.

>>88266533
>Because people were more hype for Deadpool. How is this a plothole again?
same way >>88246466
>>88246492
says Deadpool selling more DVDs is. Why do you disagree with your fellow Marvel fan?

>>88266592
>>88266536
tell that to
>>88246466
>>88246492

>>88266743
>my unexplained, not relevant to the plot assumptions are better than yours!

sad.

>>88266473
>But they dont explain it, its a dues ex machina in the form of a cape
They don't explain the birth of the universe either. That's a deus ex machina in the form of a universe
>But why arent there spells to do what the artifacts do like in the comics? Seems contrived and only there to create fake tension for when people get their sling rings stolen.
Because, like Mordo said, some things are too powerfull to be channeled by a mere human, so artifacts are required. Also because a character that can do literally anything at any time without effort is boring and broken. Also still not a plothole
>Headcanon, and thats not nearly enough time to learn everything he had to learn.
There are literally things dated in 2016 at the beginning and it ends before Thor comes looking for Odin. How is this headcanon? Also, he is a genius with a drive to learn everything he can and a photographic memory who during the hours people usually sleep was still studying in his astral form. Even then all he really does is use the sling ring, astral form, weak whips and shields and one powerful spell that only works because of the time stone. He's not the sorceror supreme yet.
>What could a doctor do agains Hydra?
Save enemies of Hydra who are in very bad medical conditions? Also, the algorithm almost predicts the future, so it probably predicted that he would be dangerous if he got his hands on any kind of powerful tech or other similar things.
>Not very heroic either. Why does Disney make their characters so unlikable? That goes against screenwriting 101, its not good to have unlikable heroes.
The whole point is that he goes from unlikable to humble you idiot. You missed the whole point
>Well thats dumb, he just guessed and got lucky?
educated guess based on observations =/= just a lucky guess
>Thats not confirmed in the movie, headcanon.
Literally all of that is stated in the movie.

>>88266725
>Superman not saying "they've kidnapped my mom" or "help me" or "there's way more going on than you think".

This is probably the biggest problem I have with the film. Superman and the World's Greatest Detective get played like morons by the hipster yuppie version of Lex Luthor. Zemo was what Lex should have been like in setting up Batman and Superman.

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>>88266725
I would say that the first ones are legitimate plot holes, but there are a lot of other things there that are actually critics against bland characterization and counter intuitive filmmaking. Legitimate complains for a shit movie, but the second half isn't exaxtly plot holes, more of a jab at shitty writting.

>>88266847
>Superman not saying "they've kidnapped my mom" or "help me" or "there's way more going on than you think".
But he did and Batman just didn't listen. In fact he tried to say it twice, and then again on his deathbed.


Also Zemo's plan relies purely on coincidence in the stupidest ways. And he got them to fight using a youtube video. Really retarded. At least Batman had two years to build his hate for Superman, Tony and Cap were best buds up until then and Tony acted super out of character in all of CW

>>88266725
no, most of them are the same stupid shit where someone feels one way but the plot goes another way and they ask "why did ...." when the inconsistency is in your head and not in the plot itself

this one could be considered a plot hole (but minor because its just a one liner):
>Why Batman think that WW is with Superman, if he knows her secret identity and is actually the only one that talked to her on the cast?

but you could also explain it away by considering that maybe Batman didn't know if WW knew or talked to Supes previously

>>88266853
none of it is shitty writing though, its just a retarded anon who needs every single part of a story explained to them

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>>88266835
>not relevant to the plot

>why Luthor created Doomsday and why Superman ignored people exploding the city in front of him (that happens to be carry the mcguffing) are not irrelevant to the plot.

You are an idiot.

>>88266883
Hi OP.

>>88266745
>Mordo says artifacts choose sorceror
>later says the cloak has chosen Strange
>I refuse to believe the cloak is an artifact even though it was stored in a glass case in a room full of artifacts, because they never said "hey, that cloak is an artifact!"

>>88266343

So you made a thread to bitch about criticism of another movie in the most roundabout way possible?

>>88266725
The best critiques aren't even the plothole stuff, its the stuff like

>Why kill of Clark Kent, the human aspect of Superman

>Why did Superman not have more of his supporting cast to bounce off on

>Why did Superman have so few lines when the entire plot is about how he's changing the world and being seen as something he is not

>Why did he Zack think it was a good idea to suddenly drop dream sequences in the middle of the movie?

The plot holes aren't what kills BvS. It's that its a movie about Superman and Batman and they just aren't very interesting to watch either by themselves or together. There's no chemistry or natural human emotions to them.

It tried to be Dark Knight Returns. It should have been Loeb's World's Finest. It ended up being Punisher vs Miracleman.

I am still waiting for my Batman and Superman movie.

>>88265798
These aren't plot holes.

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>>88266957
Warner shills are desperate.

>>88266699
>Which is it? And regardless thats not nearly enough time to learn what he needed to, especially compared to the other disciples who had been there much longer.
The leaves of the trees in Khamar Tag represent the passing of time. IIRC they go from dead to blooming, so Fall to Spring.

>>88266699
It is a living cape that was in a glass case in a mystical armory which explicitly kept most of its artifacts in glass cases. Odds are it is magic.

>But why just him as a doctor? Why didnt they mention any other doctors?
Because it was a name drop, not a comprehensive list.
Seeking fame and money is seeking control.

>So he just acted randomly? Thats really out of character.
No, he was desperate and it was the only solution he could think of.

>But her fate could be changed so she was just acting dumb. And up until that point they show she was willing to do anything for power, why suddenly stop then? Poor characterization.
She explicitly could not peer beyond that point in time and her dealings with Dormammu were long ago. That is plenty of time for her to realize the mistakes she had made.

>Thats not a motive at all, you are just saying he is evil for the sake of it, what bad writing.
This pettiness is what makes Dormammu such an enjoyable villain. He's an nigh-omnipotent god being, but he is such a petty dick.

>So Tony Stark and Spider-Man didn't give a shit that a bomb went off in New York?
Given they legally can't act without UN approval there isn't much they could do about it.

>>88266877
>Also Zemo's plan relies purely on coincidence in the stupidest ways.
Not really. He had nothing to do with the Crossbones thing, but he did take advantage of the situation. The only real coincidence I can think of is Tony following Cap to Siberia, but even then it is something Tony was likely to do.

>>88266844
>They don't explain the birth of the universe either. That's a deus ex machina in the form of a universe
Thats different, the universes exists in our world, while the cape does not. They dont need to explain air, but they do have to explain things that are unique to the movie.
>Because, like Mordo said, some things are too powerfull to be channeled by a mere human, so artifacts are required. Also because a character that can do literally anything at any time without effort is boring and broken. Also still not a plothole
But Strange can do it without an artifact in the comics and he isn't either boring or broken. Read comics. And obviously, if a mortal can safely channel Dormamu for thousands of years (The Ancient One) then teleporting isnt that dangerous. Also your explanation is literally headcanon.


>There are literally things dated in 2016 at the beginning and it ends before Thor comes looking for Odin. How is this headcanon?
You dont know how much time passed exactly. Could have just been a week. You also dont know when Ragnorak is set. So he could have been there for years.


>Save enemies of Hydra who are in very bad medical conditions? Also, the algorithm almost predicts the future, so it probably predicted that he would be dangerous if he got his hands on any kind of powerful tech or other similar things.
How do they make an algorithm that predicts the future? Why not use it to predict their demise at the hands of Captain America? Im sure Hydra could just kill people faster than he can heal them.
>The whole point is that he goes from unlikable to humble you idiot. You missed the whole point
But he was never humble in the comics, and show me a scene with him being humble at the end of the movie. IT was really humble how he became the sorcerer supreme....

>>88266795
>Change from the source material

You need to understand that Dr. Strange still has the soul of the characters. A proud man is humbled and learns magic to defeat an unstoppable cosmic foe by outwitting him. It changes elements but it still feels like I'm watching Dr. Strange.

>>88266844
>Literally all of that is stated in the movie.
where?

>>88266949
headcanon, its never explained m8. An AI (which exists in this universe) also can pick someone. Thor's hammer picks someone and it isnt an artifact.

Wow this one asshurt BvSfag.

>>88265798
Worst thread on /co/ award

>>88266957
I made a thread to get answers to these plotholes

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74KB, 625x547px

>>88267045
>it isnt an artifact.
That's also a headcanon, by your own reasoning.

-Movie executive- "magic is overrated. give him sling rings and a staff of living tribunal. i dont know what the living tribunal is but it sounds cool. make that a thing."

"no he can't say any spells out loud. were trying to sell a GOOD movie."

>>88266958
>Why kill of Clark Kent, the human aspect of Superman
Thats literally never been true. Superman has always been both his human side and alien side at all times. And in the comics when Superman died and came back, so did Clark Kent, so why assume it wont happen in the movies?
>Why did Superman not have more of his supporting cast to bounce off on
But he did, he bounced off Perry, Lois, Batman, Lex, Pa Kent as a ghost, and Ma Kent. He even bounced off the random gothamites he interviewed.
>Why did Superman have so few lines when the entire plot is about how he's changing the world and being seen as something he is not
Because actions speak louder than words, and when he tries to talk to the world Lex robs him of that chance by blowing it up.


>Why did he Zack think it was a good idea to suddenly drop dream sequences in the middle of the movie?
Its there to illustrate Batman's worst fears about Superman, and he doesnt just drop it, its proceeded by two other dream sequences that build up to it.

>>88265799
>Why did Wong lie to Strange about knowing Beyonce?
I thought Wong had just started listening to her music out of curiosity.

>>88267021
you need to understand that they took away everything from dr. strange that makes him great.

>>88266993
are
>>88246466
>>88246492
plotholes?

>>88267098
>And in the comics when Superman died and came back, so did Clark Kent, so why assume it wont happen in the movies?


Because Lex knows who Clark is, idiot.

>>88266593
>Never explained, headcanon.
Well if she's doing it that means it can be done, obviously.
> And if there are why horde that knowledge for herself?
>Why not teach people how not to be corrupted?
Because if even one idiot student made a mistake they would all be doomed. Safer not to let anyone even attempt it. She does it herself because she believes the world is safer while she lives and she already knows how to do it safely anyway
>So it just exists because the movie says so, okay. Thats bad writing though.
Not anymore than that it is bad writing that spells exist because the movie says so. Or Kamar-Taj exists because it says so. Or planet earth exists because it says so.
>Its out of character for Strange not to go exploring all the dimensions though.
There is an infinite amount though. So the movie would have to be infinitely long then. Also, why do you think he is able to got there by himself already, or wants to, not knowing what will happen and needlessly endangering his life
>So one hypocrite is enough to completely change his opinions? What a weak character, and a complete mischaracterization from comics Mordo.
If that one hypocrite is the only reason why you're even who you are and you did everything for them believing them to be some sort of saint and you trust them completely then yes, them turning out to be a lying hypocrite who's endangering you is enough to change opinions.

>>88266729
A fucking 91? Lol right

>>88267107
Most of them aren't. Being stupid with the excuse of "someone else is doing it" though, is a pretty poor defense.

>>88266877
He never outright says "Lex Luthor is manipulating us and is going to kill me mom help me" and engages in combat when his first attempt at diplomacy fails instead of trying again and again.

>Relies on coincidence.

How so?

>Tony acted super out of character

His entire history is him overreacting to his guilt. He did not act out of character for Civil War.

>Batman has 2 ears of festering hatred for Superman

Because that's a great way to kick off the World's Finest Team. With years of festering hatred.

Did anyone really want a Batman that really, really hated Superman for hypocritical reasons?

>>88267045
you have to be pretty stubborn not to follow the simplest of logic in the context of this movie

(paraphrasing):
>An artifact chooses its owner
>my artifact its the <item> of <owner>
>Wow, the <cape> of <whatever> chose you?

I mean seriously

>>88267020
> IT was really humble how he became the sorcerer supreme....
He explicitly is not the Sorcerer Supreme. This is why he places the Eye of Agamotto back on the pedestal.

>where?
The scene where Wong and Mordo yell at him for playing with time. Also the Ancient One tells him outright that she could never see beyond that point.

>Thor's hammer picks someone and it isnt an artifact.
It's a magical item holding great power.

>>88267104
>you need to understand that they took away everything from dr. strange that makes him great.
And just what is it that makes Dr. Strange great? The way he outsmarts immensely more powerful beings? His transformation from colossal prick neuro surgeon to a guy willing to sacrifice his life for the greater good? The only thing really missing from this portrayal is the fact that his power level is toned down immensely compared to the comics, and if that is what you think makes Dr.Strange a good character than you must think Goku is the most well rounded character in all of fiction.

>>88267013
>The leaves of the trees in Khamar Tag represent the passing of time. IIRC they go from dead to blooming, so Fall to Spring.

You are assuming time passes the same in their magic haven, a place with artifacts that literally control time.
>It is a living cape that was in a glass case in a mystical armory which explicitly kept most of its artifacts in glass cases. Odds are it is magic.
So headcanon then.


>Because it was a name drop, not a comprehensive list.
So stupid meta reasons then that dont make sense in-universe.
>Seeking fame and money is seeking control.
No it isn't, and never was it said that Strange waned those things after he started learning magic, and if he did he did a shitty job becoming famous or getting more money.
>No, he was desperate and it was the only solution he could think of.
So he just got lucky? Wow, what a plot contrivance. Terrible writing.


>She explicitly could not peer beyond that point in time and her dealings with Dormammu were long ago. That is plenty of time for her to realize the mistakes she had made.
So why not undo those mistakes with time travel? Why just die and let the world be captured by Dormammu? How unheroic and unlikable.
>This pettiness is what makes Dormammu such an enjoyable villain. He's an nigh-omnipotent god being, but he is such a petty dick.
So he just acts evil just because. Okay, what a shitty character. Not good writing.
>Given they legally can't act without UN approval there isn't much they could do about it.
So what about Cap or any of the other Avengers that didnt sign on to the accords?

>>88267167
Do people not understand how RT works?

A 91% means that 91% of all critics aggregated by the site gave it a positive review. 91% said "Yeah, I guess it's worth seeing."

>>88267013


>Not really. He had nothing to do with the Crossbones thing, but he did take advantage of the situation. The only real coincidence I can think of is Tony following Cap to Siberia, but even then it is something Tony was likely to do.
Why was he likely to do that? And taking advantage of something you didnt plan is literally taking advantage of a coincidence m8 so you just admitted that it does rely on coincidence. Also im glad you didnt refute that Tony acts out of character and gets mad over a stupid youtube video.

this is the worst roundabout BvS defense thread I have ever seen

>>88267205
I would love to meet you in person and strangle you.

asl?

>>88267187
im just following the logic of this anon

>>88246925
>>88247432

if its not explicitly stated, its not real

Is it OP's headcanon that BvS was a good movie?

>>88267074
I guess you are right, Thor should give his artifact back to those magicians who were hoarding all the other artifacts in existence.

>>88266808
>Why do you disagree with your fellow Marvel fan?
Because I am an individual with my own thoughts who is not required to agree with everything someone who has literally a single thing in common with me believes?

>>88267123
and? He didn't reveal it before then, because revealing it would make him MORE human to the world which is the opposite of what Lex wants.

>>88267246
Let's not start that again...

>>88267123
Clark Kent was literally just outed as Superman in the comics and they managed to undo it.... read comics m8

>>88266808
Also, I never said I'm a Marvel fan. That's your headcanon.

>>88267175
I agree, im just trying to make a point. Which one IS a plothole though?

>>88266508
>Why? Why does a single doctor pose a threat, they never explain it.
That was kind of the point of the list in Winter Soldier. There were tons of people on that list, whether it be because of them being actually dangerous, or potentially dangerous, or just free thinkers.

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>>88267098
>But he did, he bounced off Perry, Lois, Batman, Lex, Pa Kent as a ghost, and Ma Kent.


Fucking kek.

Do you even know what "bounce off" means? Do you think that being on the same place as a character is doing a monologue ( most of the scenes with those characters ) is bouncing off?

Clark had FOUR scenes on Daily Planet, but all of them together doesn't make TWO MINUTES in a movie that is two an a half hours.

This is bouncing off:

>Steve Rogers: Big man in a suit of armour. Take that off, what are you?
>Tony Stark: Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist.
>Steve Rogers: I know guys with none of that worth ten of you. I've seen the footage. The only thing you really fight for is yourself. You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you.
>Tony Stark: I think I would just cut the wire.
>Steve Rogers: Always a way out... You know, you may not be a threat, but you better stop pretending to be a hero.
>Tony Stark: A hero? Like you? You're a lab rat, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a bottle!
>Steve Rogers: Put on the suit. Let's go a few rounds.

When BvS has a moment like this?

>>88266853
What anime is this from

>>88267208
No i understand how it works. It just seems high for the quality of movie. I just felt empty at the end. It was a hollow movie

>>88266877
>Also Zemo's plan relies purely on coincidence in the stupidest ways. And he got them to fight using a youtube video. Really retarded. At least Batman had two years to build his hate for Superman, Tony and Cap were best buds up until then and Tony acted super out of character in all of CW
Zemo didn't hav everything planned out in advance. He just gained as much knowledge as he could, created as much chaos as he could and then improvised with all of his knowledge in order to make the Avengers fight among themselves.

Also, Tony and Steve were literally disagreeing and almost fighting throughout AoU all the time.

>>88267235
That post has nothing to do with what you are doing m8.

You look fucking DESPERATE.

>>88267177
>He never outright says "Lex Luthor is manipulating us and is going to kill me mom help me" and engages in combat when his first attempt at diplomacy fails instead of trying again and again.

He tries to but Batman keeps interrupting him to fight. And now you are dictating exactly what a character should say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWL7m9kjv74

He even tries to say Lex. I think its much better that he opens with apologizing and saying he was wrong, much more in character.
>How so?

The fact that it revolves around the Crossbones thing.

>His entire history is him overreacting to his guilt. He did not act out of character for Civil War.
In earlier movies he risked his life to save his best friends, now he turns on them because of a youtube video.


>Because that's a great way to kick off the World's Finest Team. With years of festering hatred.
So you are just saying "not muh," you wanting a different movie doesnt make it bad. And I personally love the story we got of Superman redeeming Batman.

>>88267344
>Zemo didn't hav everything planned out in advance. He just gained as much knowledge as he could, created as much chaos as he could and then improvised with all of his knowledge in order to make the Avengers fight among themselves.
So you are saying he didnt have a plan and did indeed rely on coincidence then.


>Also, Tony and Steve were literally disagreeing and almost fighting throughout AoU all the time.

Nah not really, and Tony has disagreed with friends in the past and still risked his life to save them, but suddenly turns on his best buddy Cap over a youtube video.

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Gonna have to work a bit harder for any of my precious (you)'s

>>88267356
>In earlier movies he risked his life to save his best friends, now he turns on them because of a youtube video.


A guy smashing his dad's skull and choking his mother?

>>88267203
>He explicitly is not the Sorcerer Supreme. This is why he places the Eye of Agamotto back on the pedestal.
Where do they say that? And how many movies is it gunna take for him to become that? Its like having 3 movies with Peter in his wrestling garb.


>The scene where Wong and Mordo yell at him for playing with time. Also the Ancient One tells him outright that she could never see beyond that point.
But they dont care when he plays with time to revive them. And why doesnt Strange use his time powers to let the Ancient One live longer? He has no repercussions messing with time in the rest of the movie.
>It's a magical item holding great power.
Tony says its tech, and the asgardians themselves say they are super advanced tech.

>>88267224
what about this guy
>>88246466
>>88246620
>>88246925
>>88247432
also what a coincidence, I love being strangled. 73/F/Your Backyard

>>88266402
This pic sumarizes the thread SO WELL.

>>88267350
by his logic if its not shown explicitly on screen it doesnt happen, so I'm just applying that to Doctor Strange

>>88267246
not OP, but it was

>>88267278
okay, are you a Marvel fan?


>>88267261
do you think that guy is dumb too then?

>>88267413
>But they dont care when he plays with time to revive them.
Mordo was pretty pissed.

>>88267413
>And why doesnt Strange use his time powers to let the Ancient One live longer?
He needs the Eye for that, and she'd certainly tell him not to.

>>88267283
whats the point of the list if it includes so many people that werent actually threats at the time?

>>88267465
To wipe out anyone that /might/ pose a threat in some way, even a remote chance, so they have a society that's weak and easy to rule.

>>88267439
What the other anon said is that Lex had a back up plan and weapons to kill Doomsday, when it isn't show at any moment and the movie even points the contrary.

Also that Superman checked out the car throwing rockets and found nothing, when it is never adressed.

How is this comparable?

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>>88267429
Reading the threads, I conclude that you are autistic and the true cancer.

>>88267205
The director explicitly said that the trees represent the passage of time.

>So why not undo those mistakes with time travel? Why just die and let the world be captured by Dormammu?
Strange was being trained as her replacement. She was accepting the way things were supposed to be according to the natural laws that she had broken by extending her life through Dormammu. This is why Mordo says that the debt always comes due, or whatever he actually says in that scene in Hong Kong.

>And taking advantage of something you didnt plan is literally taking advantage of a coincidence m8
His plan was originally to just use the tape to
cause a rift between Tony and Steve.

>So what about Cap or any of the other Avengers that didnt sign on to the accords?
They are on the run.

>and never was it said that Strange waned those things after he started learning magic
He has magic, arguably the ultimate form of control. The entire point of his paralleling Kaecilius was that they both sought control. He ultimately realized he can never have that control, hence why he turns down Kaecilius' offer to join him and Dormammu.

>But they dont care when he plays with time to revive them.
Mordo certainly does. It is one of the reasons he turns his back on Strange and Khamar TTag.
>He has no repercussions messing with time in the rest of the movie.
You see there is thing in fiction called plot armor. If Dr.Strange fucks everything up by playing with time, that'd be somewhat of a shitty ending. So they establish the dangers of messing with time early in the movie to create tension when he does it later. It is also used to push Mordo towards rejecting Strange since the manipulation of time is breaking the natural laws.

>Where do they say that?
Wong telling him that is the Sorcerer Supreme's to wield and his giving up the Eye means that he is not the Sorcerer Supreme.

>And how many movies is it gunna take for him to become that?
Likely his next stand alone.

>>88267295
your example of bouncing off is just two people saying their opinions of the other person.

Here are some scenes with Clark interacting with other people that highlight his motivations and inner thoughts/turmoil


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HzLtt6aUpI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMKwyPeKBtY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APyiK_OKJY

>>88267411
Tony doesnt have room to talk, he created not one, but two legions of flying robots that got perverted and used to harm innocents.

>>88265798
>>How did the Doctor make magic withouth fully accepting the word of our lord and savior Kek?

Why won't Superman rape everyone?
Not like anyone can stop him.

>>88267461
>Mordo was pretty pissed.
Not pissed enough to kill himself again.


>He needs the Eye for that, and she'd certainly tell him not to.
He wasn't listening to her the other times he used it, so why start now?

>>88267590
would you rape everyone if no one could stop you?

>>88265798
Cringe dialogue. Toddler humor. Stale formula. Not exciting. Wasted villian. My kids loved it.

>>88267494
He says that they are possibilities, and that what Superman did to/with Lex's guards are not relevant to the plot. Seeing him check up on them or not check up on them in no way changes the plot or story. Same with explicitly showing is Lex had a way to take out Doomsday. You can infer he does from what is shown there, but its relevance to the story is that it was a mistake due to his hubris (like how it was a mistake for him to create Bizarro in the comics and not have a way to destroy it, or it was a mistake for the original creator of Doomsday to make him without a way to destroy it).


Snyder leaves what Superman does between scenes up to the viewers interpretation, because the whole movie centers around people making judgements and assumptions about Superman without ever having the full picture. The same way that Batman has no idea what Superman did or didnt do the guards, so does the audience.

>>88267020
>Thats different, the universes exists in our world, while the cape does not. They dont need to explain air, but they do have to explain things that are unique to the movie.
So they needed to explain how and why Kamar-Taj was created? We needed to see a scene where the sling ring was invented? A close-up shot of Dormammu's birth?
>And obviously, if a mortal can safely channel Dormamu for thousands of years (The Ancient One) then teleporting isnt that dangerous. Also your explanation is literally headcanon.
She didn't channel Dormammu, just drew power from his dimension. How is it headcanon if Mordo literally explained it? Also, there can't be just spells, otherwise it would be a deus ex machina in the form of spells, right? Unless they explained the precise inner workings of course.
>You dont know how much time passed exactly. Could have just been a week.
Why would anyone need to know how exactly many minutes passed?
>How do they make an algorithm that predicts the future? Why not use it to predict their demise at the hands of Captain America? Im sure Hydra could just kill people faster than he can heal them.
It doesn't literally predict the future you dummy. Yes, Hydra can kill faster, but allowing important people to live for longer with knowledge of Hydra can mess up their plans. Also, good job at ignoring the rest of that sentence.
>But he was never humble in the comics, and show me a scene with him being humble at the end of the movie. IT was really humble how he became the sorcerer supreme....
He didn't become sorceror supreme. At the very least he actually became thankful to people who tried to help him and wasn't an unlikable stuck up asshole anymore.

>>88267493
why didnt they wipe out Strange then?

>>88267626
>Cringe dialogue. Toddler humor. Stale formula. Not exciting. Wasted villian. My wife's kids loved it.

>>88267624
Yes.

>>88267691
Because Captain America stopped them. My god are you sure you don't need to hop on the short bus?

>>88267032
>Because she always died at that point, no matter what. Even the ancient one herself couldn't prevent it.
When she and Strange were in astral form in her last moment
>Also, messing with time is too dangerous.
several times, including right after Strange first does it.
>And she already lived way longer than she was supposed to anyway thanks to forbidden magic.
Conversation with Mordo about her age + revelation of her using Dark Dimension link + same astral form convo

I liked it.

>>88267677
>Snyder leaves what Superman does between scenes up to the viewers interpretation, because the whole movie centers around people making judgements and assumptions about Superman without ever having the full picture. The same way that Batman has no idea what Superman did or didnt do the guards, so does the audience.


You are fucking stupid.

Tell me why your theory has wheight. What is the proof of what you said?

I'd sooner just ban movie discussions at this point because this desperation is so damn tiresome.

>>88267550
>The director explicitly said that the trees represent the passage of time.

Yes, but how much time? And also using shitty meta reasons to explain in universe things is bad writing.


>Strange was being trained as her replacement.
Where does it ever say that?


>His plan was originally to just use the tape to cause a rift between Tony and Steve.
And how would he have done that without Crossbones? And you admit that their entire multi-year friendship is undone by a single youtube video.
>They are on the run.
So they cant save people anymore? Superman saved people while in hiding, and so did the Agents of Shield. What a selfish person Cap must be.
>He has magic, arguably the ultimate form of control. The entire point of his paralleling Kaecilius was that they both sought control. He ultimately realized he can never have that control, hence why he turns down Kaecilius' offer to join him and Dormammu.
When does Strange ever say he wants control? And he seems to gain complete control over time so idk why you say he realizes he can never have control.
>Mordo certainly does. It is one of the reasons he turns his back on Strange and Khamar TTag.
Then why doesnt mordo kill himself and wong to make things right again?

>You see there is thing in fiction called plot armor. If Dr.Strange fucks everything up by playing with time, that'd be somewhat of a shitty ending. So they establish the dangers of messing with time early in the movie to create tension when he does it later. It is also used to push Mordo towards rejecting Strange since the manipulation of time is breaking the natural laws.
So you are saying that its poorly written, plot armor being one of the weakest forms of writing.


>Wong telling him that is the Sorcerer Supreme's to wield and his giving up the Eye means that he is not the Sorcerer Supreme.
So the Sorcerer Supreme HAS to wield the eye at all times or they arent the SS? The ancient one didnt wield it while being the SS.

>>88267550
>Likely his next stand alone.
But Marvel said they werent doing origin stories anymore, and its ridiculous that Doctor Strange doesnt even become the SS yet. Thats like a whole Spider-Man movie focusing on his time as a wrestler. Sad.

>>88267580
good point

>>88266402
>My post becomes a copypasta in less than an hour, typos and all.
Woo! I've contributed to the board becoming slightly dumber and more toxic!

>>88267689
> A close-up shot of Dormammu's birth?

I don't see why not, they showed us Loki's birth.


>She didn't channel Dormammu, just drew power from his dimension. How is it headcanon if Mordo literally explained it? Also, there can't be just spells, otherwise it would be a deus ex machina in the form of spells, right? Unless they explained the precise inner workings of course.

But why not teach others to channel the dark dimension too? And in the Doctor Strange comics there are just spells and only one or two artifacts at most, so are you saying the source material is garbage?


>Why would anyone need to know how exactly many minutes passed?
So you are saying its possible he learned all that in a day? wow what a shitty movie.
>It doesn't literally predict the future you dummy. Yes, Hydra can kill faster, but allowing important people to live for longer with knowledge of Hydra can mess up their plans.
So why not just kill Strange then?
>He didn't become sorceror supreme. At the very least he actually became thankful to people who tried to help him and wasn't an unlikable stuck up asshole anymore.
So a whole origin movie (which Marvel said they werent going to do anymore) and he STILL isn't the SS? Whats next, a whole movie of Spider-Man as a wrestler?

>>88267730
There was never a scene of Captain America saving Strange from being killed

>>88267794
Get used, because the guy will post the same thing about Doctor Strange every time that someone criticize a Snyder movie.

>>88267739
>When she and Strange were in astral form in her last moment
But its never stated that he couldnt undo it with time travel.


>several times, including right after Strange first does it.
But he does it without repercussion every time, and the ancient one is a notorious liar. And the only one who forbade the magic was the Ancient One herself, so its not forbidden magic to her. Plus

>Even the ancient one herself couldn't prevent it.

Thats not flat out said, we dont know for sure that she couldnt have stopped it.

>>88267774
I wasn't aware that Spider-Man spent a decade as a wrestler.

>First Clip

The scene of the woman holding her hand to a distant and unknowable and shadowed Superman is so cringe.

What should have been an exchange like what Aunt May has with Peter in Spider-Man 2 is reduced to a stale exchange that gives only a surface insight to Clark and Martha.


>Second Clip

Exposition about Batman. Clark looks sad and defeated. "You can't change things with your pen, you need a fist!". In a good movie Clark would have said yes, he does believe he can change things with a pen and ask her to sit down and talk to him more about Batman. In a bad movie he grimaces and slinks off defeated and crushed knowing that yes, he can only help by punching the Batman.

>Third clip

There are so many good Clark and Lois scenes from the comics. Warren Ellis called the Lois-Clark relationship the spine of the Superman story.

The dialog exchange is again very dry and stale. The body language shows that Lois is uncomfortable around Clark (she shrinks away from his touch). When she asks "How can you love me and be you" that awkward pause as he looks away says that Clark really isn't sure if he can love her and be himself. It ruins that spontaneous moment where he gets in the tub with her, which was a cute moment that shows that Superman can be comfortable throwing his weight around is it were, but that pause makes it seem like an affectation instead of something genuinely heartfelt.

Again, just like in the second clip this Superman is a symbol of hesitation and weakness. There's no vitality to him. He's beaten down by the world and I suppose that's the point, but Superman should always be about rising above these things, not squirming under them.

>>88265798
>Doctor Strange is such a bad movie, it has so many plotholes.
shut up
it's a marvel movie
those are features

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>>88267843
He didn't need to save him personally, just stop the flying deathships Hydra was going to use.

Why didn't Hitler become Sorcerer Supreme and exterminate all the Jews with his magic?

>>88267763
> Ancient One uses Dark Dimension power.

> Oshtur, Hoggoth, and Agamoto don't mind? Seriously?

Thanks for saving me the effort of watching that bilge.

>>88267750

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lQxUqmnfU

that scene where Superman is hovering above the house with the big S symbol. Its right in the middle of people talking about whether he is a religious figure and also follows a shot of him being uncomfortable with people praising him. A common reading of the shot of him hovering is that he is deciding whether to save them first or save everyone else first because he doesnt want people to think that he is a god that will show favor if praised (like in the form of his Symbol being adorned on top of a house). Snyder intentionally makes it so we dont know what he chooses, leaving it up to the viewer to decide.


On top of that many of the major plot points revolve around people not having the full picture and making assumptions about Superman's motivations and character. Batman's hate of Superman stems from that. Lex is constantly trying to obstruct the truth from the general public by having people flat out lie and denying Superman the chance to ever explain his side of things.

>>88267882
Did Doctor Strange train for a decade in the movie?

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>>88265798
>There are people who answer seriously

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>>88265798
Magic.

>>88267851
nah, only when the stupid copy+pasta is posted
>>88246466
>>88246620

>>88267889
>What should have

so this is another case of you just not liking the direction the movie went in, oh okay, well I eagerly await your movie, let us know when it comes out.

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>>88266508
>ask for answers
>get them
>NUH UH HEBCABBON
I've been bamboozled haven't I?

>>88267894
kek

>>88267889
>I've never read Superman comics and repeat things I've read on /co/, the post

jeeze

>>88266402
pfhahaha
saved

How is it not extremely obvious that this is just a troll?
I can't tell if this is a really good troll or /co/ is just full of easy targets.
Anyone who kept reading after the first two questions is retarded

It has the same ending that MLP:FIM had months before lol.

>>88267992
what do you have to say to this guy then
>>88246466
>>88246620
>>88246925
>>88247432
>>88246925

>>88266402
>So, what were you trying to prove with this post again?
That he can get you to waste time & effort replying.

>>88268031
damn, marvel cant even be original in their shlock.

>>88265798
cool pic. Thanks OP.

>>88267965
I'm talking out of universe, dummy. Your comparison is utter shit because the Lee/Ditko run never even had Strange become Sorceror Supreme.

>>88268032
He is right? Why do you think that it is comparable?

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>>88268032
Not relevant

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>>88268032
Nothing. it's BvS discussion, I have better things to do than give a shit one way or the other.

>>88267956
>Superman holding the little girl while day of the dead people touch him like Jesus

Holy fucking god that is cringe. Say something Clark! Holy fuck!

>Maybe he's not a devil of jesus character

I can't believe they actually said that. Show don't tell please.

>Blogger Man and critical Redhead with southern accent

Super cringe.

>Scene in not-Katrina with the S symbol.

I do like your interpretation. But I didn't get that from the imagery at all. I just got "distant unknowable Superman" like the Day of the Dad scene.

He should have looked at other houses, maybe turn his head, then turn back to her. Or show some nervousness slowly creeping over her face.

What you needed here was that scene in Hitman where Superman talks about he couldn't save the Astronaught.

I'm not feeling Superman at all from these scenes. Snyder doesn't give his characters a chance to really breathe. He smothers them over stilted visual set pieces and dry on the nose exposition.

In a film all about what Superman means and what Superman can do Superman is way too damn silent when he interacts with the people he saves.

>>88268083
So why does that guy get to argue the plothole explanations are headcanon but not the OP of this thread?

>>88268093
>says stop just writing things up to being headcanon
>show another example of someone doing it
>not relevant

hahah you cant even do basic logic.

>>88268097
>I dont give a shit
>but I'm going to post to show you how much I don't care

really showed me

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>>88268032
I can't believe how autistic you're being in trying to defend a movie.

>>88267990
>Not liking the direction the movie went in

Why yes I am criticizing Zack Snyder's direction.

>>88268016
Care to elaborate on why you think I'm a dirty casual?

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>>88266215
>thinking Doctor Who, a show that's been running since the 60s and Sherlock, an update of a character from 1887, are just for tweens
>not understanding why Marvel, a studio that makes family blockbusters about characters created to entertain people in that same age range, would want to cast actors from other shows those people like

>>88267381
>So you are saying he didnt have a plan and did indeed rely on coincidence then.
I'm saying his plan was to create chaos and improvise with his vast knowledge. People sometimes improvise anon. Not everyone has big masterplans where they correctly predict everyones future behavior in real life.

>Nah not really, and Tony has disagreed with friends in the past and still risked his life to save them, but suddenly turns on his best buddy Cap over a youtube video.
they literally fought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwoMnuKAnXA
And even during Civil War he just wanted to force Steve to register or lock him away until he did. He didn't want to kill him or anything until he became enraged at the fact that Steve hid information on the death of his mother.

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>>88268127
>raging autism in a BvS argument is relevant to Doctor Strange thread

>>88268104
these are the most vapid and empty complaints ive ever seen, but at least you aren't saying there is anything objectionably wrong, just that you personally didnt like it. So I can respect that. Is there any comic you would like storytimed?
And why would Clark say anything? The whole point is that he doesnt know what to say. Should he let them praise him? Should he not? Who is he to dictate what they think? and then when does try to talk to the public as a whole, Lex blows up his chance.

>>88268115
Because BvS has inconsistence on motivations and actions that need elaborations and theories from multiple people make any sense - and still isn't confirmed on canon - while you claim that the existence of magic is a plot hole.

>>88268175
it is when the originator of this thread of convo said

>ask for answers
>get them
>NUH UH HEBCABBON
>I've been bamboozled haven't I?


And I bring up another example of a person doing to same thing to make sure he gets equal ridicule

>>88268151
off the top of my head, using Warren-Ellis as an example of an authority on Superman when he hates every single superhero but Superman.

>>88268191
My god, you are patethic.

Do you REALLY have aspenger?

Watched this in the theaters high as fuck and still didn't enjoy it. My only problems were why the fuck did that basketball guy tell a random stranger that secret magic garbage, and how did Strange fight off trained ancient warriors after a few days of being with those monk fags

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>>88265798
>How did Doctor Strange's cape know where the armor thing was?
>Why was Strange's cape alive?
>How long did Strange actually train for?
>Why not use the Eye to bring back the Ancient One?
>Why does the mirror dimension exist?
>If there are supposedly countless dimensions why do they only go to the mirror one and dark one?
>Why does the guy turn on Strange at the end? That was really out of no where and sudden and didn't make any sense.
What exactly do you think a plot hole is? None of those are plot holes.

>>88268185
>Because BvS has inconsistence on motivations
Name one

>and actions that need elaborations and theories from multiple people
No, because people demand explanations for actions that dont need them. Why does what Superman does to the Lexcorp guards matter to the plot? Why does whether or not we know exactly what Luthor's back up plan might have been matter?

>>88268191
literal cancer

>>88268191
Those answers suck tho.

>>88268221
>I dont have an argument so you are autistic.

>>88268223
because marvel movies are poorly written

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>>88268191

>>88265798
>Double meme arrows

Did you just copy this list from another post?

>>88268245
how?

>>88265798
>How did

Magic. It's a movie about magic.

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>>88268244

>>88268163
>a shitty show for kids that now panders to retarded teenage girls
>the worst adaptation of Sherlock Holmes imaginable that exists only to pander to same retarded obnoxious teenage girls
>not just for tweens

>>88268176

>The point is that he doesn't know what to say

I understand that, but Superman should not be silent. When people started to form a cult around him in that one Adventures of Superman story he told them to cut it out.

Superman should never be Silent around people.

He's Superman.

While it's not objectively wrong to make this character who is completely overwhelmed by being Superman it is however wrong to present in these highly mannered set pieces that never once feel organic. This is highly mannered film-making and its not good.

>Anything you want Storytimed

Do you have the Strange Visitor story form Adventures of Superman?

>>88268218
>Warren Ellis
>Hates Capes

Explain Planetary then.

>>88268238
>Why does what Superman does to the Lexcorp guards matter to the plot?

Because if he had acted like a normal human and reacted to the situation instead of ignoring it, the third part of the movie wouldn't happen.

>Why does whether or not we know exactly what Luthor's back up plan might have been matter?

Because it makes Luthor not look like a random insane person that needed to move the plot and acted for no other reason.

>>88267413
>Where do they say that?
...
>everything that is not explicitly said is headcanon
>it is never explicitly said he's sorceror supreme
>but- but it is never explicitly said he's NOT sorceror supreme, that's just your headcanon


>And how many movies is it gunna take for him to become that? Its like having 3 movies with Peter in his wrestling garb.
In the comics he wasn't the sorcerer supreme until 10 years after his first appearance. What the fuck are you on about?

>>88268343
>>but- but it is never explicitly said he's NOT sorceror supreme, that's just your headcanon


Dude, this is Snyderfag logic.

>>88268281
Yeah, and guess what happened to /tv/ for having too much fun with Baneposting, maggle.

Hint: It became a cesspool of shitposting that can only be saved by DELETION.

So, don't be an idiot and don't overdo your shitposting, m8.

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>>88268295
>I understand that, but Superman should not be silent.

So literally not muh. And you read one Adventures of Superman comic, great, but Superman never told these worshippers to stop worshipping him, because one of the core tennants of Superman is that he lets people make their own choices. But I guess this doesnt count because it was a comic you didnt read or it was a version of Superman you didnt like.
Is the Strange Visitor one the one with Joker? I can storytime it if you want

>>88268343
He's just an angry snyderfag that's baiting. Let him tire himself out.

>>88268295
oh fuck you know what, I got Warren Ellis confused with Garth Ennis. My bad. Still, Warren Ellis saying that Lois/Superman relationship is the spine is something Snyder tried to do and people criticized him for it.

>>88268309
>Because if he had acted like a normal human and reacted to the situation instead of ignoring it, the third part of the movie wouldn't happen.

So superman saving the guards or not saving them or arresting them would change the third act of the movie? How?
>Because it makes Luthor not look like a random insane person that needed to move the plot and acted for no other reason.
No, it makes him look like a victim of hubris like he was in the comics when he made Bizarro without any explained way of controlling him. And regardless, we have seen that he has kryptonite and kryptonite weapons so he could at the very least kill him eventually.

>>88268367
its actually literally marvel fan logic

>>88246466 (Cross-thread)
>>88246620 (You) (Cross-thread)
>>88246925 (Cross-thread)
>>88247432 (Cross-thread)
>>88246925 (Cross-thread)

>>88268383
>that can only be saved by DELETION.
BANE VS BROKEN MATT HARDY BOOK IT

>>88268451
>So superman saving the guards or not saving them or arresting them would change the third act of the movie?

Yes, they carried the mcguffing.

>No, it makes him look like a victim of hubris

He had no reason to create him to begin with.

>>88268176
>and then when does try to talk to the public as a whole, Lex blows up his chance.
He had a year before that to try and he didn't. Whats up with that?

Why am I supposed to believe that this reporter has no knowledge or awareness of a media footprint or how to craft a narrative. Why does he even have a job if he's that incompetent and dumbstruck at having to express an idea?

>>88268417
>Something Snyder tried to do

He did it poorly. That bathtub scene with the long pause was horrible and made their romance seem like something they really were not sure about deep down.

>>88268397
The cultists in Adventures were throwing themselves off buildings to get his attention.

I'll be honest. I haven't read much of 90's Superman (the Lex with the full head of hair gives it away). Did he really not talk to these guys at all? He said nothing to them?

The Strange Visitor issue is the one where he goes full god mode and becomes the last living being in the universe. Thanks for doing a storytime by the way.

>>88268461
Where he says that he is a Marvel fan?

Looks like this pic is right >>88266402

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>>88268461
>(You)

>>88268138
About BvS? Nah. I was under the impression this was a Dr Strange thread, silly me.
Seriously if this is one big sugar trap for people who hate Snyder I might as well bow out, I didn't enjoy his movies but I don't obsess over not enjoying them either. Enjoy your crusade.

>>88268176
>Should he let them praise him? Should he not? Who is he to dictate what they think?
This is the same Clark that tried running a smear campaign against Batman only to get shot down by his editor, so he clearly has no problem telling people what to think about other vigilantes. Which makes it all the stranger that he never takes his own reception into his own hands.

>>88267830
>But why not teach others to channel the dark dimension too?
because if even one idiot student made a mistake they would all be doomed. Safer not to let anyone even attempt it. She does it herself because she believes the world is safer while she lives and she already knows how to do it safely anyway
>And in the Doctor Strange comics there are just spells and only one or two artifacts at most, so are you saying the source material is garbage?
No I'm saying that using spells without explaining exactly why there are spells and how they would work would be a deus ex machina in the form of spells, and that as long as they weren't explicitly said to not be AI, they might as well be and saying they're not would be your headcanon.

>So why not just kill Strange then?
Because Captain America destroyed the thing that was supposed to kill him?

>So a whole origin movie (which Marvel said they werent going to do anymore) and he STILL isn't the SS? Whats next, a whole movie of Spider-Man as a wrestler?
Once again, he wasn't the SS for a whole 10 years after his debut, and he isn't the SS anymore either. It would be more like
>A whole origin movie (which Marvel never said they werent going to do anymore) and Peter STILL didn't marry MJ?

>>88268514
>Yes, they carried the mcguffing.
But Batman getting the Kryptonite had nothing to do with the well being of the guards since he got it from the Lexcorp later.
>He had no reason to create him to begin with.
Yes he did, back up if Superman killed Batman and proves to the world the aliens evil.

>>88268519
>He had a year before that to try and he didn't. Whats up with that?
Because Superman has always been about letting people make up their own mind, not dictating what they should think. Just saving people is already having unintended consequences, imagine what might happen if he started telling people that he wasnt a god. Could start religious wars.

>>88268519
>>88268580
Fucking these. Clark doesn't feel like he has any agency or drive at all. He just sits and makes faces while people smear and manipulate and judge him. He exists to move from one corny set piece to another looking like a lost puppy dog.

>>88268534
>That bathtub scene with the long pause was horrible and made their romance seem like something they really were not sure about deep down.
No it didn't your reading is wrong.


>The cultists in Adventures were throwing themselves off buildings to get his attention.
Yeah, no one in BvS was doing that.


And as far as I know Superman never talked to those worshippers once. But they did appear in an issue of Supergirl that Superman was just heavily involved it and I dont know if it went into other books. Id be glad to be prove wrong though.
And no problem, I like to reward actual dialogue that isnt just opinions and shit talking, even if I disagree. I dont care that people dont like the movie, I care when people say its completely out of character, has plot holes, or is "objectively" bad. But I should get over it. Give me a minute to download the comic and itll be storytimed in a minute.

>>88268707
>Letting people make up their own mind.

He also stands for truth anon. You really think its more like Superman to make a face and fly away then to say "I'm Superman and I'm from the planet Krypton" like he usually does?

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>Doctor Strange thread
>Everybody talking about BvS

>>88268675
>But Batman getting the Kryptonite had nothing to do with the well being of the guards

They were exploding the city, any sane person would have taken to the authorities. Thus destroying the operation.

>Yes he did, back up if Superman killed Batman

But he had no idea of the result of the fight and no way to control it, its irrational behavior.

>>88268777
Its actually a snyderfag's whinning thread.

>>88268777
Happened when Guardians trailer dropped. /co/ can't resist /tv/ bait. Sad thing is even /tv/ stopped biting

>>88267045
Are you functionally retarded?

>>88268461
The guy you link to never explicitly says he's a marvel fan. That's just your headcanon

>>88268891
/co/ has always been known as being really dumb, probably dumber than any other board on 4chan, and extremely easily trollable. Trying to troll this board is easier than shooting fish in a bucket.

>>88265798
>How did Doctor Strange's cape know where the armor thing was?
It was sitting in a glass case directly across from it.
>Why was he on the dangerous person list in Winter Soldier if he was just an asshole doctor?
Because the Helicarriers predicted FUTURE threats as well as current ones.

>>88265798
It's not a fucking plot hole when the movie doesn't explain things that don't need explaining. And they deliberately didn't explain most of how magic works because IT'S FUCKING MAGIC and thus needs to be somewhat mysterious.

>>88269116
And if they did try and explain how magic works the autists on this board would speg out

>>88265798
Holly shit, Snyderfags are fucking underage.

>>88266904

Lex created Doomsday because he didn't thought Batman would succeed. The idea was that Batman would never succeed because he's not Lex. Superman's morally corrupt like everyone else and would kill Batman.

>>88269374
Lex spent 2 years of his life in a plan that he knew would never suceed?

>>88269622
Dude, he was just random lmao. You know, yolo? He was yolo.