If they did this the other way around, Black Lives Matter and

Of course. Get white Storm and watch fireworks.

>>88213530
k

>>88213530
Okay.
Why should we care again?

>>88213583
Honestly Barbara being a cop seems a bigger change than being Black.

why did they make babs a darkie?

Also is she going to fuck batman in this?

Cool story, OP

>>88213672
How? She is commissioner in Beyond

>>88213686
I mean being both Batgirl and a Cop at the same time.

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>>88213530
You're right. To be fair and balanced, they should really have changed some of the characters who aren't white in the comics to be white. Let's go with - hmm. Well, we could make - no, that doesn't work. Oh, there's Two-Face - oh, but he is white in the comics.

What a shame. Seems that there just aren't any black characters that we can turn white to be balanced. Maybe in the next movie, then!

>>88213709
Dick did that.

>>88213672
how is that a bigger change? anybody can change careers, you can't just become black.

>>88213753

Dick was Batgirl?

>>88213766
Michael Jackson became white.

>>88213766
>how is that a bigger change?
Because being white isn't as integral to a character that has appeared in throughout history as a character's career
It's like saying James Bond being an ice cream man and having to do nothing with any sort of spy work or secret service isn't as big of a deal as him being played by a black character

>>88213803
His nose also fell off when he sneezed so I don't think he's good choice.

>>88213672
Nah. It's a change, sure, but not a huge one, and it makes sense for an adult Barbara.

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>>88213729

Make new characters instead of changing the race of existing ones?

See what people like you don't seem to realize, is that diversity is not just adding more black people.

Barbara Gordon is a light skinned redhead. Just because her skin happens to be white, does not mean that she doesn't represent diversity.
O right, but discrimination only is about black people, right?
People with red hair should just suck it up, because they're not diverse enough, and also... they have no souls, right?

>>88213853
I'm pretty sure I read a comic where Barbara wants to be a cop like her dad, but can't because she doesn't meet height and weight requirements. Not being able to help people as a cop is part of her motivation for becoming Batgirl.

>>88213880
>Make new characters instead of changing the race of existing ones?
People do that, they fill roles with new characters, but people still get upset
Ms. Marvel, The Hulk, Spider-man, etc etc
New black/minority characters appear all the time to fit various roles, but people get super upset when non-whites take mantles that white characters held.
People are super okay with there being 5+ robins, but there can't be a black batgirl named barbara gordon

>People with red hair should just suck it up
The barbara gordon in this has red hair, what is your point?

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You know I'm ok with a black Gordon fanily retcon. It doesn't seem as blatantly pandering as a lot of recent race change trash

>>88213530
I wouldn't mind if Batgirl #4 is black. It looks pretty good with that shade of purple. Maybe have a Batgirls title with Babs as Oracle supervising Steph as Spoiler, Cass as Orphan or Black Bat, and the rookie Blackgirl

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>>88213978
That's just it though. It's not Barbara. You can have 47 non-white robins for all I care, they just better not be named Dick Grayson, Carrie Kelly, etc

>>88213672
Yeah but that doesn't trigger /co/'s victim complex

>>88213978

Point me to a black woman with natural flowing red hair.
Also, watching the trailer, this version of Barbara has a total "I'm Joining the club, Ya'll!" vibe like Ghostbusters 2016.

The point is natural redheads get plenty shit coming their way on a daily basis.

Sure there can be a black Batgirl. There was an asian Batgirl too, but they didn't turn Barbara Gordon into an asian to get there.

>>88214065
>It's not Barbara
It's fine if you think of it as not being Barbara
It's just a different Barbara Gordon who is a cop and black
>the better not be named Dick Grayson, Carrie Kelly, etc
why?

>>88213880
Oh my god, who cares? They changed her skin color because they got Rosario Dawson to play her. Why do you people get so upset over stupid shit like this?

>>88214107

>"I'm Joining the club, Ya'll!" vibe

pretty sure that's there from the start in the 60s

>>88214112

>why?

Because those are existing characters. How is this difficult to understand?

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>>88213583
>that
>Black
They already had a black lady voice her in the arkham games funny enough

>>88214122

>you people

>>88214132
Who are you?

It doesn't matter if a character is race changed in adaptations.

The only Batgirl that matters is the Asian one so I don't give a shit.

>>88213771
no but he dicked her

>>88214127

Not like this. She talks... typical.

>>88214122
>she's black so she can only play black characters
That's racist.

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>>88214107
>Point me to a black woman with natural flowing red hair.
pic related

>Also, watching the trailer, this version of Barbara has a total "I'm Joining the club, Ya'll!" vibe like Ghostbusters 2016.
The origins of batgirl have that sort of vibe, she just made her costume and essentially took up the mantle without Batman's permission
But she had promise (and a banging body) so he let her in

>The point is natural redheads get plenty shit coming their way on a daily basis.
Don't natural redheads of other races with different skin tones get shit from redheads with lighter skin because they just assume they aren't natural/don't exist?

>but they didn't turn Barbara Gordon into an asian to get there
If your point is that they didn't do it before so why would they do it now, then why not do it now so if they need to do it again in the future they can do it again?
"It's never been done before" isn't a good reason to not do something

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>>88214211

Yeah? Where is that Batgirl now?

But she isn't black...?

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>>88213880
>Barbara Gordon is a light skinned redhead. Just because her skin happens to be white, does not mean that she doesn't represent diversity.

>Afro-Cuban, Puerto Rican, Irish and Native American
>lel black
Can someone explain this to me? The character here looks more latina than black too.

>>88214280
Because this is a shitty bait thread.

>>88214247

>rosario dawson
>black

Ehh, I don't mind race swapping in general so long as we have a talented actor playing the part, for instance the Hugo Strange we had in Gotham, Nick Mother Fucking Fury in MCU, hell Two Face in Lego Batman, but if you get some black bitch with no presence to play a white character I do reee a little

>>88214280
Race is determined by the one drop rule in order to preserve the elite exclusivity of whites.

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>>88214257

That's not flowing red hair, dumbass.

And the point was that Cassandra Cain was a new character created for a new Batgirl. That's how this should be done.

>>88214141
>Because those are existing characters
So superboy-prime shouldn't have been written because clark kent already existed?
Didn't Superman die and get replaced by a different version of himself? And hasn't that happened many times throughout history?

It's a different universe, Batman isn't also a master builder who can shape the very environment into other things to suit his needs. Why can't Barbara be a different race?
It's not the exact same Barbara.

>>88214279
I think it's pretty funny that redheads are such a small number of actual people, but they're everywhere in comics because comic artists want to bang them.

>>88214150
Arkham Asylum/City Babs voice >>>>> Arkham Knight Babs voice

Fact

Also her Arkham Asylum/City VA did voice work for the BTAS Animated Movies in Mystery of the Batwoman as the daughter of one of the Mob Boss

anyone else really want the mutant leader figure

>>88214279
i WANT TO DROWN IN THAT RED SEA

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>>88214357
>That's not flowing red hair, dumbass.
I guess I don't really understand what flowing means
Like this?

>And the point was that Cassandra Cain was a new character created for a new Batgirl.
And now, in the lego Universe, Barbara Gordon is black
That's how this was done

>>88213530
So is Commissioner Gordon now black?

Why not make Alfred Black then?

>>88214257
that girl's cute anon

One thing I find ironic about this is that for decades, legos deliberately went with primary color yellow for all characters. No exceptions, because they wanted to be post racial.

At some point, they added black legos. I"m no /toy/man but I think it was with a licenced movie or something.

And now, it's sort of simpsons race rules, I guess. I wonder how legos will do asian characters. Since hollywood gives no fucks about asians, It may be a while before we find out.
>>88213766
Rachel Dolezal. Shaun King.

Race rules are moving away from genetics and parentage and towards 100 percent self identification.

>>88214003
In this case, they're making the races match the voice actor races. Billy Dee Williams, and Dawson. The voice actors are also well established, well loved, and fitting for the characters. They're also keeping important parts of the look of batgirl, by giving her a massive henna addiction for the red hair. Most importantly, they aren't claiming that it's some sort of civil rights revolution.

>>88214503
>Half white
>Still has Nappy hair

Bad luck.

>>88213729
White Bane?
European Ras Al Guhl?(as opossed to Persian)
White Doodlebug?

Who would watch a movie with that?

>>88214503
He means not curly or wavy.

>>88214542
Guess by that voice actor idea we need to change Samurai jack into a Black guy.

Oh wait, good voice actors don't just sound like their stereotypes.

>>88214564
>Nappy
that's not what that means

>>88214521
Because he's not played by a black guy.
>>88214542
>At some point, they added black legos. I"m no /toy/man but I think it was with a licenced movie or something.
It was for Lando, yes, because he didn't look right in yellow. It's why they moved to fleshtones for licenced characters, so they could keep the idea that yellow didn't necessarily mean white.

>>88214542
>I wonder how legos will do asian characters.
I think they do them like Simpsons actually, make them paler.

>>88214595
So how does that work then?

Maybe the shitty voice actors should stop sounding like stereotypes.

Look at Clancy Brown. He can play any race.

>>88214580
she can just straighten it if it's that big of a deal
or is hair care and maintenance not a part of the batgirl identity?

>>88214566
Bane was Half English though, so him being a dark skinned beaner was always stupid.

>>88214637
Not being black was part of her Identity quite a bit.

>>88214633
>Maybe the shitty voice actors should stop sounding like stereotypes.
Honestly, if Shaolin Showdown weren't such a decent show, I would have never watched it after hearing Tara Strong

>>88214667
>Not being black was part of her Identity quite a bit.
So why is batgirl black in the lego movie sequel?

>>88214566
>White Doodlebug?

What?

He only showed up in Beware the Batman, and he was black then, too. I think they even made Junkyard Dog a Latino.

>>88214690
Because the voice actor can't sound like a white person?

>>88213729

>Two Face is black
>Commishoner Gordon is Black
>Babs is Black
>Catwoman is black

Yeah, but why?

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>>88214710
>Because the voice actor can't sound like a white person?

>>88214721
DC wants those SJWbux.

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>>88214733

Why not just use Cass? Or have Batwing in it?

>>88214581
No. We don't HAVE to. But we COULD, and in Samurai Jack's case the show would still work.

The show isn't even particularly japanese to begin with.

And you're right. Voice actors don't have to match the race of the voices they play.

>>88214633
The rules are more based on what triggers the audience into protests, and what execs think sells tickets than anything consistent or rational.

>>88214726
Except that's true, she sounds like a 30 year old Black Woman.

Ergo, they need to make Batgirl black so her voice fits.

>>88214755
Asians aren't colored enough. Not marketable.

>>88214721
Because Billy Dee Williams
Because Babs is
Because her voice actor is
Because Frank Miller version, maybe?

....She's not black you mongs. she's latina or tanned.

Bunch of whiny faggots.

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>>88214763
>implying the show would still work without a japanese main character
I seriously hope you guys don't do that

>>88214763
>No. We don't HAVE to. But we COULD, and in Samurai Jack's case the show would still work.
>
>The show isn't even particularly japanese to begin with.

Except of course... Jack being a Samurai, with his dad being a Shogun.

>>88214781
So because of excuses to add black people.

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>>88214721
>>Catwoman is black

Anon pls

>>88214776
>Except that's true, she sounds like a 30 year old Black Woman.
*Afro-Latina Woman

>>88214781

Isn't Rosario half-black? Couldn't Gordon have been white and his wife black?

The Dark Knight Returns Catwoman isn't black though

>>88214809
>So because of excuses to add black people.
Yeah
Just because you call them excuses doesn't mean they aren't reasons to do that thing

>>88214803
The show becomes more afro samurai.

>>88214781
Frank Miller was a big Batman TV show fan. I think it goes back to Eartha Kitt for this one.

>>88214834
Wow, so she's half beaner, how interesting and totally not conradictory to Batgirl's Identity.

At least some of the sets are pretty cool.

>>88214542
Lego speed racer did asians iirc

>>88214854
Well here is a question.

Why Those characters?

Why no Black Riddler or Black penguin?

Why no Black Alfred? Why no Black robin?

>>88214858
>totally not conradictory to Batgirl's Identity
I agree anon
so why are we fighting?

>>88214809
They only added one so far as I can tell and he already had the role over 20 years ago so it's nearly a reprisal.

>>88214908
>Why no Black robin?
But Duke is already a thing, and he's better than Robin.

I don't particularly mind it, there are so many interpretations of these characters these days, it's not some blatant jarring difference to me anymore. At least the voice actor idea is better than, say, making Johnny Storm black because he's friends with the director.

Though in fairness, what OP said is true. If it's any other race but white, it's celebrated and defended, but if a character is made white, there's outrage and cries of whitewash.

>>88214908
Because historical precedence and Lego stuff tends to be a celebration of the entire franchise across history.

If there were a black Alfred ever, then they'd conceivably have done a black Alfred. And you'd piss and moan about that too like a bitch.

>>88214952
Could you imagine a White Cyborg or Static shock?

>>88214960
When where Batgirl or Gordon ever Brown?

>>88214721
>Catwoman is black
Well, who else would be stealing that much shit?

>>88214952
>If it's any other race but white, it's celebrated and defended
I don't get this logic that says that no one complains about black/diversity washing in a thread that's complaining about it.

BOTH cases have their defenders and critics and whiny pissants that blow this shit out of proportion. Change is resisted by autists, regardless of what direction that change is in.

Sonic's arms are blue once and idiots lose their goddamn minds.

>>88214990
She's stealing diamonds, not bicycles.

>>88214908
>Why Those characters?
Why not those characters?
Would you rather have a black robin named Dick Grayson or a black butler named Alfred Pennyworth?
I'm sure those things could and might happen in the future, very easily now. Wally West has been black a couple times, same with Aqualad. I'm willing to bet that black Robin might happen soon.
There's a black twoface and a black catwoman, so obviously Black riddler and black penguin could exist.

The answer is,
There's literally no reason to not have it, so why not?
Just because there's no reason to have something doesn't mean there's a reason you shouldn't have it.

>>88214293
Where gonna go through this whole thread calling her "black batgirl" regardless of how inaccurate that is. Does op think he'll get more replies than calling her latina?

Are we supposed to care?

>>88214721
>Not knowing about Billy Dee Williams' Harvey Dent
>Not knowing about Eartha Kitt's Catwoman
Anon, please, the adults are talking.

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>>88213530
As long as Gordon, his wife, or both are black I'm good with it.

Because fuck random adoption plots.

>>88214991
Oh people will complain about it - here on anonymous 4chan - but doing so anywhere else and you'll get accused of being a racist.

Hell, the Mall of America has a black Santa right now and that's what's happening to anybody who dares suggest that's out of the norm.

>>88213766
Rachel Dolzel?

The important thing is that they chose the best Robin

>>88215034
Just like Miles is latino, amirite?
>>88215103
Genderflipped Carrie?

>>88215087
>abloo bloo bloo someone called me a name
And?

>>88215001
Let me explain why.

Because Batgirl, Gordon, Catwoman and Two-face are "Important, but expendable"

They're characters that are big, but mostly able to be reformatted and changed around as needed to suit any agenda they needed.

However, Black Robins disrupt the characters, Black Alfred's would be seen as racist and no black person would accept a Black Riddler or Black penguin as they're not cool.

It's basically babystepping around black people#s feelings to blackwash a few characters they can blackwash to the detriment of the characters.

Because fuck you people, Billy Dee Williams is a shit actor. He ALWAYS sounds like a 70ies black comedy character,

>>88215103
>>88215121
It's Dick.
They just made him look more like Cera because that's who voices him.

>>88215121
>genderflipped
Wait, what? I thought she was still a girl.

>>88213530
No one complained about Shades being whte afaik.

>>88215125
You're a moron.

>>88215121
More so than Miles and she looks it. She's at least less black than Miles. Anon already posted her background

>>88215132
>Because Batgirl, Gordon, Catwoman and Two-face are "Important, but expendable"
>It's basically babystepping around black people#s feelings to blackwash a few characters they can blackwash to the detriment of the characters.
pick one anon, either changing the race of the causes ruin or they are expendable to where it doesn't matter
Nobody says, "you ruined this newspaper from 3 months ago" if nobody cares about using a newspaper from 3 months ago
making those characters black doesn't ruin those characters nor does it add anything

>and no black person would accept a Black Riddler or Black penguin as they're not cool
I know of at least one black person who would
And he's the only black person I know that's actually into comics

I thought you guys hated Barbara Gordon for being the ultimate feminist.

>>88214881
Same color as Akira from the simpsons.

>>88214974
Cyborg, yes. Both animated and comic version.

Static is tougher because more of his core stories are about race.

>>88214952
>If it's any other race but white, it's celebrated and defended,
An exception. You can change from asian to any other race, including white and frequently, nobody gives a fuck in hollywood. Big hero 6, ect.

>>88215043
It's far better for your mental health if you give zero fucks.


>>88215132
They COULD have used the butler from the fresh prince, and it would have worked, but that's probably an unacceptable level of risk for hollywood.

I'm okay with it because if anything more black qts in capeshit are welcome

Too often Big 2 treat "diversity" as just turning another white guy black with either a "hood past" or a "racism is bad m'kay" subtext, and having him date a blonde

>>88215132
Being a bad actor is actually the inablity to play the role you've been typecast as, not just versatility.

>>88215173
And?
Someone calls you a racist. Who gives a shit? Why does that make you so butthurt? Just be a racist.

>>88215241
>pick one anon, either changing the race of the causes ruin or they are expendable to where it doesn't matter
I think it's more nuanced than that. The look and the emotional tone of the character is critical. And hollywood fucks both of those up all the fucking time.

And race actually does make a difference in the look of characters.

Now it's not the ONLY thing about the character, but it's an oversimplification to make it all one or the other.

For example:
Michael Clarke Duncan isn't white, but he matches the physicallity, the strongfat, the imposing presense of the Kingpin.

>I know of at least one black person who would
The easily triggered crowd who protest at the drop of a hat is the opinion that matters. They give ZERO fucks of what actual black comic fans want.

>>88215255
are you fresh off the upvote boat?

>>88215412
Quit being a racist anon.

>black person is wearing purple and orange
Wow, so progressive.

>>88215458
>Quit being a racist anon.
I'm actually sexist instead. It's more fun because I get to look at tits.

>>88215412
It might cost you your job and rep, but I don't understand the problem in the first place, Santa's been played by so many different people it's ridiculous. I mean, Tim Allen?

>>88213672
That doesn't change the alt-right victim complex.

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>>88213530
You can always make her race whatever you want, as long as you have the parts.

Why not make a new black Batgirl?
Why do they have to raceswap existing characters?

Comics are a visual medium, it's the same as if they made Babs Gordon a blonde

>>88215458
>The easily triggered crowd who protest at the drop of a hat is the opinion that matters. They give ZERO fucks of what actual black comic fans want.
my point was that you can't honestly say you understand what black people want or how they'll react because you, and nobody, can speak for a large amount of people that haven't told you that you could speak for them

>And race actually does make a difference in the look of characters.
>The look and the emotional tone of the character is critical
But not so much that you couldn't have a new character that was black, that fulfilled the same roles as barbara gordon and had a similar backstory to barbara gordon, but not "barbara gordon"?

>>88215653
They already made her eyes green.

>>88213978
>People do that, they fill roles with new characters, but people still get upset
>New black/minority characters appear all the time to fit various roles, but people get super upset
>but people still get upset
I hear that excuse all the time, and it's bullshit.
Get it through your thick skull: it's different people who get upset.

/pol/ and the like get upset at any non-white character ever taking a main role, even if it's a completely new character. Actual comic fans are of course okay with it because why not! But we don't like when characters' look and background gets changed for corporate reasons ("we need to up our representation quota").

If you add a new character, only /pol/ will get upset.
If you change an existing character for a bullshit corporate/political reason, both /pol/ and regular comic fans would get upset.

>People are super okay with there being 5+ robins, but there can't be a black batgirl named barbara gordon
No, because Barbara Gordon is a white redhead. I'm okay with Asian Cass Cain because she's a fucking different character. I'd be okay with 5 new black Batgirls, whatever.

>>88215711
>But not so much that you couldn't have a new character that was black, that fulfilled the same roles as barbara gordon and had a similar backstory to barbara gordon, but not "barbara gordon"?
Why do you need a black character to fulfill a role of a preexisting white character and assume their identity?
Why not create a new black character with their own identity, like they did with minority characters like Batwoman, Cass Cain, Renee Montoya?

>>88215827
It doesn't matter if it's different people bitching, it's still people bitching, it's still twenty threads a day, there's no way to stop the whining so there's no point in paying attention to it unless sales drop.

>>88214952
My biggest problem with Johnny Storm being black is that they made the BOLD! BRAVE! PROGRESSIVE! decision to raceswap Johnny... but didn't have the balls to make his sister Sue black too, because you see, old Hollywood producers think white guys kissing black girls is icky.

>>88214004
They played with this idea at the end of BQM's batgirl run, with Nell Little (the little black girl that Steph meets occasionally in the series) becoming batgirl during Steph's Black Mercy hallucination. But of course flashpoint happened.

>>88215827
>Actual comic fans
I'm not concerned with actual comic fans and neither are corporations
Actual comic fans are simply just that, fanatic.
It means no matter how much you bitch and moan about what should happen in comic related media, you are still going to consume comic related media
I know it, you know it, comic creators know it, comic CEOs know it.

This isn't the first thread about changing the race of a character and it won't be the last.


>we don't like when characters' look and background gets changed for corporate reasons
I'm sure we includes you and a bunch of other like-minded individuals, but certainly not all "Actual comic fans" and certainly not me
Because honestly, as long as the story is good, who cares?
Comics are a visual medium, but if the story isn't good, if the subject matter is bullshit, nobody would care
The Fantastic 4 movie, the newer one, was complete garbage
After it aired, nobody was truly upset that the storms were black and adopted susan because the entire movie was so poor

>>88215874
see
>>88215001
but if you need a reason
representation, diversity, etc etc
it literally doesn't matter

>>88215894
So you're saying you don't see a difference between the opinion of a racist who hates seeing minority characters period, and a comic fan who don't see a reason to change a preexisting character's entire background and appearance for a purely corporate reason? Lovely.

Also great how you admitted that sales are the only thing that matters, not integrity or quality

>>88215983
That post doesn't give a reason, it just says "why not? lel"

>>88215986
>not integrity or quality
what do those have to do with a race change?
would the integrity and quality of the movie go up if barbara was white?
Is there some sort of Bplot that has to do with race in this brightly colored movie about superheroes made out of toys?
If you're that concerned with integrity and quality, why not wait until the movie comes out and then judge it?

>>88216029
>That post doesn't give a reason
That's my point
There shouldn't have to be a reason to change someone's race
If there is, great
But if there isn't, that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen

the only actual race swap is hispanic Babs and retroactive hispanic Gordon

or whatever the fuck Rosario is

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>>88214721

>>88215954
What if a next installment makes Batman a short blonde Russian one-eyed oil magnate with a handlebar moustache... but the story would be good! And no, not an Elseworlds either, he's supposed to be the Batman.

>>88216119
If you think the story is good, what is your problem?

>>88216034
Changing characters' canonical appearance in a visual medium for zero reason except "minority quota" is a sign of poor integrity.

>>88215921
>>88214952
>>88215954
Ironically enough, the movie was so shit, that black Johnny storm turned out to be the best casting there.

>>88216148
Changing to meet a growing demand of minority representation in a forward thinking community a sign of high integrity

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Do white people even want to be black heroes tho?

>>88216139
Because it's a good story, but not a story about Batman. It's a good story about some other character who has a "Batman" label slapped onto him.

>>88213530
I find the black police chief trope quite pleasing. I can forgive any skin swapping as long as Rosario is involved. She a cute CUTE!

>>88216119
I'm already supposed to suck it up when he's a stupid, rageaholic, murdering asshole.

So yeah, they could do that. Who gives a shit anymore.

>>88216119
so basically KGBeast takes up the mantle of the bat? i would read the fuck outta that

>>88215986
>>88215986
>So you're saying you don't see a difference between the opinion of a racist who hates seeing minority characters period, and a comic fan who don't see a reason to change a preexisting character's entire background and appearance for a purely corporate reason? Lovely.
Yes. I'm saying it's all noise at this point.
Especially when the "comic fans" are going LOL NIGGERS too.

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>>88213766

>>88216081
One half of that list isn't even black and the other half are reprisals/references

>>88216185
If you want to represent people, represent them. Create characters who come from their backgrounds and walks of life, and give them bigger roles than "background token minority #57".

Don't just unperson some white dude/gal, and then smuggle their identity on a minority person forcing them to live out their assumed identity's life, like some sort of creepy urban legend shit.

>>88216195
>It's a good story about some other character who has a "Batman" label slapped onto him
And this is a story about not barbara gordon black batgirl who happens to be named barbara gordon
That doesn't retroactively make literally every incarnation of batman a blonde russian cyclops
And this lego movie doesn't retroactively make literally every incarnation of barbara gordon not white

How is "batman" not as much of an identity as "barbara gordon" is?

>>88213880
>make a new character
>LITERALLY WHO? Need more of muh legacies
>racebend a character
>NOT MUH LEGACY. Ummm reverse racism much?

>>88216185
If a community becomes diverse, it means that people of different races and ethnicities move in, and are welcome and accepted. It doesn't mean that the Jones family who live next door suddenly turn black overnight.

>>88216192
I used to love Cloak (from Marvel) as a kid. Kid me would probably love to be Cloak. He had cool powers.

>>88215874
Catwoman and Two Face are both adaptions of previous characters that were originally black, but were also race swaps. The only new swap is babs to latina and Gordon.

>>88216254
>Create characters who come from their backgrounds and walks of life, and give them bigger roles than "background token minority #57"
How are you going to decide what characters represent them if they are literally begging and pleading for the specific type of representation that exists in this movie?

>Create characters who come from their backgrounds and walks of life
So it'd be fine if Bruce Wayne was black?
Obviously most white people aren't rich orphans with tons of kung fu training, so it couldn't be a problem of representation.

Or are you really saying that it'd be impossible for a black girl to have a dad who worked in law enforcement and was maybe even the commissioner?

It seems like this is boiling down to you having a problem with something and assuming that other people should have the exact same problem

>>88216231
No, no, no. No one "takes the mantle".

It's the same old Bruce Wayne. He's always been a short one-eyed Russian cyclops, didn't you know?

>>88216274
I should correct my phrasing.

The blonde Russian cyclops isn't just Batman, he's Bruce Wayne.
I'm okay with someone else assuming the mantle of Batman or Batgirl (as long as it's well executed, of course). But not raceswapping/whateverswapping preexisting persons.

>>88215874
Why do you assume that they set out to make a black Barbara rather than setting out to make Barbara Gordon, and changing her to be black after casting the voice actress?

>>88216277
>make a new character
>LITERALLY WHO? Need more of muh legacies
Yeeeah... because that's EXACTLY how /co/ feels about Cassandra Cain or Batwoman. Stop strawmanning to prove your flawed point.

>>88216372
>The blonde Russian cyclops isn't just Batman, he's Bruce Wayne.
Yes, okay, that was kinda the assumption
Your argument is essentially trying to elicit some sort of reaction out of me and then you'd use that reaction to justify your own
But that's not a good argument and I'm honestly fine with blonde russian cyclops batman
There was a russian superman and that was pretty neat

>>88216158
That wasn't surprising, man. MBJ is a great actor.

>>88216312
Batman '66 was a show that got everything wrong, and did it partially on purpose. So a Catwoman who was black and dressed like Emma Peel from the Avengers gets a pass.

Where is black Two-Face from? I remember a black Harvey Dent in Burton's 80s Batman, but he didn't become Two-Face and was essentially a different character.

>>88216453
Billy Dee Williams was set up to be Two-Face in a future movie, but Burton pitched a fit because he didn't want a black guy in the role and the studio let him recast him for Batman Forever.
So they got Billy Dee Williams back for this one.

>>88216372
so bruce wayne takes the mantle of the beast? i would also read the fuck outta that

>>88216349
>they are literally begging and pleading for the specific type of representation that exists in this movie
Black people are specifically begging and pleading to be represented by a black Babs Gordon?

>So it'd be fine if Bruce Wayne was black?
It'd be fine if a new character was black.

>Or are you really saying that it'd be impossible for a black girl to have a dad who worked in law enforcement and was maybe even the commissioner?
It is possible. So they should go and create a new character like that.

>It seems like this is boiling down to you having a problem with something and assuming that other people should have the exact same problem
You might say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

>>88216398
>Ms. Marvel
>New Inhumans guy
>Every single legacy hero

>>88216374
Why change her to be black after casting the voice actress?

>>88216236
The bigger question here is why Superman owns a Blackifier machine to begin with

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>>88215034
Seems like it. I guess I know why /co/ doesn't read comics, because they can't see

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>>88216374
>and changing her to be black after casting the voice actress?

Because she's a fucking cartoon and that would be retarded.

It's like saying you can't play Killer Croc unless you're a mutant crocodile man

>Croc lives matter

>>88216491
Burton didn't direct Batman Forever.

>>88216559
The only people who complained about Ms.Marvel were /pol/acks
Literally, the only complaint about her was "oh no, a Muslim!"

And people (mostly X-fags) hate Inhumans in general.

>Every single legacy hero
Jaime Reyes
Cassandra Cain
Renee Montoya aka The Question
I could go on. /co/ (not resident /pol/acks) only complains about legacy heroes when they feel forced.

>>88216536
>specifically
yes, why else would this character exist in this specific way?

>It'd be fine if a new character was black.
Why can't Bruce be black?
There aren't nearly as many rich orphans with kung fu training as there are white girls with passions for justice, so obviously if there was a character that could be race bent, it would be the one that less resembles a character with a background similar to those who read the story, like Bruce Wayne

>So they should go and create a new character like that
>they should
>should
That's a reason they could, but not a reason they should

>I'm not the only one
I'm sure you're not the only one with a problem with this, but you shouldn't assume that other people should have a problem with this simply because of the way you think about things

>>88216536
>by a black Babs Gordon?
And they really pulled through with an hispanic Babs Gordon

>>88213530

Wrong board.

>>>/pol/ is that way.

>>88216408
Russian Superman was an Elseworlds tale about if the exact same Kal-El landed in Russia. It wasn't Superman suddenly and inexplicably being a short blonde Russian cyclops for no reason.

>>88216530
No, Bruce Wayne is still Batman. It's just that Bruce Wayne is now a short blonde Russian cyclops.

>>88216374
Primarily because it's fucking hollywood, and that's the way that casting works for them.

This case might be an exception.

>>88216427
I hadn't seen his shit before, and thought it was nepotisim. I also wasn't expecting every single other actor to blow it that badly.

>>88216574
I guess that explains Jimmy Olsen in the new supergirl series.

>>88216622
Given the writer's previous comics track record, it really isn't that out of line to be suspicious that Ms marvel is shitty pandering. I was expecting something like The Movement, or the new Champions. That the character is actually appealing, and the book is well executed pandering is a pleasant surprise.

>>88216491
Hmm, did not know that. Interesting.

>>88216675
is KGBeast robin then?

>>88216675
But if somehow superman lost an eye when his ship crashed, turned out to not be as tall as he was in other incarnations, or happened to be blonde
I seriously doubt it would have affected the story much

>>88214218
He stayed in her holiday inn express last night? Yowza!

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>>88216574

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Hey guys, member how Brick who is one of GA's biggest enemies and the only notable black villain in his rogues gallery was turned into a white chav for the only live-action adaptation he's ever had? Remember how upset black people on the internet got? Oh wait, no one gave a single shit or made a bunch of threads about it like white people did about this or black Human Torch. You like to believe minorities are so much more triggered than you but you're all actually full of shit.

>>88216639
>yes, why else would this character exist in this specific way?
Because corporate suits told them to up their minority quota.

>Why can't Bruce be black?
Because he's already white.

>That's a reason they could, but not a reason they should
They should if they want to have a black Batgirl with a cop dad.

>you shouldn't assume that other people should have a problem with this simply because of the way you think about things
Wut

>>88216764

Literally who?

>>88216764
Then they ended up making the same character for season five of Arrow.

The only GA villains that weren't shat on were Merlyn, Cupid, and Clock King, and they even wasted the last one when they killed off the Suicide Squad.

>>88216664
and Tumblr is the other way.

>>88216764
nothing wrong with vinnie jones anon, arrow just brings out the shit in everyone

>>88216720
So you'd be okay for Superman to be like that in a next installation? Oh, and also, his costume is now green and orange.

>>88216698
>I guess that explains Jimmy Olsen in the new supergirl series.
It really doesn't, unless a Blackifier machine includes a complete change of personality.

>>88216810
>Because corporate suits told them to up their minority quota.
Because they wanted money from the people who said "man it sure would be nice if there were more characters like me"

>Because he's already white.
And he could be black if someone decided to make him black
That doesn't mean he wasn't previously white

>They should if they want to have a black Batgirl with a cop dad.
Obviously that's not the only way to have a black batgirl with a cop dad, because there's a black batgirl with a cop dad whose name is barbara gordon
So no, they "shouldn't"

You shouldn't assume that others should have the same problem, just because you think you're justified in thinking that it's a problem for everyone, just because you're thinking about it in a way that makes sense for you

>>88216764
I was mad, and I'm a white guy.
Not enough black people care about GA, I bet.

>>88216862
>So you'd be okay for Superman to be like that in a next installation?
Like I said, as long as it's a good story

>Oh, and also, his costume is now green and orange.
Like I said, your argument is essentially trying to elicit some sort of reaction out of me and then you'd use that reaction to justify your own
But that's STILL not a good argument

>>88216914
>I was mad, and I'm a white guy.
Maybe you're just mad for no significant reason?
But probably not, right?

>Not enough black people care about GA, I bet.
Or maybe black people care more about the representation of black heroes moreso than the representation simply for race's sake

>>88216893
>Because they wanted money from the people who said "man it sure would be nice if there were more characters like me"
Why change pre-existing characters for that?

>And he could be black if someone decided to make him black
Why make a pre-existing character black? Why not make him redheaded? Why is it even an option people consider?
In a visual medium, characters' look is iconic. Why mess with that?

>there's a black batgirl with a cop dad whose name is barbara gordon
What happened to the other Barbara Gordon? The redhead one? Was she killed? Did her black namesake assume her mantle?

There's literally no reason for messing up a preexisting character's appearance and background, instead of just creating a new character, and having them assume the mantle.

>>88216917
I was just asking a question.

>>88217076
I answered the question multiple times
I even showed you where I answered the question previously

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A better question is, why is "representation" and "diversity" always about raceswapping white characters to black? Where are the Asians? The Indians? The Native Americans? Hell, I liked Moana, where are my Pacific Islanders?

>>88216828
>Then they ended up making the same character for season five of Arrow.
He really was essentially Brick and a better Brick at that. S3 really didn't know what the fuck it was doing.

>Or maybe black people care more about the representation of black heroes moreso than the representation simply for race's sake

It's not like there's an overabundance of black villains relative to heroes though. Villains can be cool characters too.

The thing that's strangest to me about this thread is the people who'd rather they invent an entirely new black Batgirl for a Lego movie than change the tone of Barbara Gordon's Lego-skin
>>88216612
>>88216563
Have you people literally never encountered the concept of "make the animated character resemble their voice actor" in your life? "Why make Barbara black because Rosario Dawson is" is exactly the same as "why make Wreck-It Ralph look like an animated John C. Reilly"... or, hell, "why make Lord Business look like an animated Will Ferrel." In all three cases the answer boils down to "why not".

>>88217019
>Why change pre-existing characters for that?
Because it's easy and doesn't sacrifice quality

>Why not make him redheaded?
People change their hair color all of the time
If you're talking about natural redheads, then fine, I'm sure it wouldn't be a huge deal if they were changed so that they were a natural redhead

>In a visual medium, characters' look is iconic
Not really
It's why comic characters have various costumes that may even look wildly different
Consider current batman's tacticool versus the campy adam west batman
They have a bunch of similarities and a bunch of differences
The iconic things are not changing
Batgirl still wears purple

>What happened to the other Barbara Gordon?
It's a different universe, so the other barbara gordon is the same as she ever was

>There's literally no reason for messing up a preexisting character's appearance and background, instead of just creating a new character, and having them assume the mantle.
There's no reason to do one and not the other
notice that I'm saying and, not but
They can do both because both are fine

>>88217126
I'm glad there are at least a decent amount of Latino characters in the Arrowverse. I'm looking forward to Cisco going full Vibe. I also want him to cut his fucking hair. Ryan Choi would be an easy character for them to pull of if Atom makes a new suit.

>>88217126
>why is "representation" and "diversity" always about raceswapping white characters to black?
If you feel that passionately about diversity to that regard, please feel free to ask for those things
But if you're only bringing that up so you can say "we shouldn't change characters to all races equally, so we shouldn't change them at all", then that's a poor argument
There's an asian hulk and an arab ms. marvel, and there will potentially be more
Rosario Dawson is an afro-latina, so it'd be safe to assume that barbara gordon is maybe an afro-latina

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>>88217126
>Where are the Asians? The Indians? The Native Americans?
They're there

>>88217019
>There's literally no reason for messing up a preexisting character's appearance and background, instead of just creating a new character, and having them assume the mantle.

>"After going through a series of actresses, we've decided to cast Rosario Dawson to play Barbara Gordon! Since we've done that, maybe, to increase the diversity of the characters and match the actress better, we should make Batgirl's skin darker."
>"No, it's absolutely intolerable for you to do that. Rewrite the plot to use an entirely different character as Batgirl AND explain what happened to Barbara and why she isn't Batgirl."
Alright, buddy.

>>88217126
You have Aquaman. If raceswapping characters isn't a good thing, why would you want more of it for more people? They didn't make babs black so far as I can tell, so even going outside black swaps doesn't seem to help the general acknowledgement any.

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Does /co/ even remember this?. I guess not seeing as this is from one of the most depised title of DC

>>88213530
so like

what is this exactly?


desu making the same thing another ethnicity is pointless in my opinion, why not make something new instead of just rehashing it to fit someone else's standards?

but I'm a white cis male so my opinion doesn't matter

>>88217339
This post triggers me.
Not because you are a white male, but because you added so much spacing and used desu like an autist would.

>>88213530
Actually, a bat wearing a girlsuit has kinky potential...

>>88217371
you found me out, I'm an autist

>>88217226
I'd like to see Ryan Choi featured in more media.

>>88217271
I'm sure there are people of all races wanting more representation. Or do you think only black people want that?
>But if you're only bringing that up so you can say "we shouldn't change characters to all races equally, so we shouldn't change them at all"
Not what I was saying, don't assume okay?

>>88217285
I was talking about race-swapping specifically though, as this thread is about race-swapping. Most characters in your pic aren't race swaps.

>>88217298
Fair point about Aquaman.

>>88217464
>I'm sure there are people of all races wanting more representation. Or do you think only black people want that?
Which is fine, I did say that you should campaign and ask for more representation from other races if you really felt that way.

>Not what I was saying, don't assume okay?
I wasn't assuming anything. Or rather, I was assuming that you either felt that way or you didn't. And if you really do feel like there should be more representation of other races, then ask for it.

>>88217221
>I'm sure it wouldn't be a huge deal if they were changed so that they were a natural redhead
Why? Why should it be done at all?

>It's why comic characters have various costumes that may even look wildly different
And you know as well as me, there are some costumes that work as decent redesigns of a character's original design, and there are ones that just look different and don't fit the iconic look.
You're saying as if a character could wear absolutely anything, and it wouldn't sacrifice the quality.

>They can do both because both are fine
Yes, completely changing the look and background of a preexisting character for no reason is the same as creating a new original character that has that look and background organically.

>>88217292
If they cast a white actor to voice a black or Asian character, should they make the character white as well?

>>88217319
Steel's daughter becomes Harley?

>>88217578
>Why? Why should it be done at all?
There's no reason to do it just as there's no reason not to do it

>You're saying as if a character could wear absolutely anything, and it wouldn't sacrifice the quality.
I'm saying that comic fans got mad when superman didn't wear his red briefs that were "so iconic"
I'm saying that costumes are fine as long as they resemble what we can recognize
And I'm also saying that someone's race really shouldn't matter if they are putting on a mask and covering nearly every inch of their body

>for no reason
you have a reason, you just won't accept it because you prefer alternatives

>>88217339
Because SJWs don't care about new interesting characters. They want to repurpose established popular brands to fit their vision of a perfect diversity percentage.

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>>88217622
Yep

Actually no. Earth 2 writers tried to create their own version of Harley.

>>88217599
Are we talking about a series which is predominantly cast with black/Asian characters but their race isn't particularly relevant? If so, sure.

>>88217498
I shouldn't ask anything. There are already people asking for representation.

My point was, if companies did actually do their race-swapping because they care about their audience, and they want different demographics be more represented – then they wouldn't only raceswap whites into blacks. If they truly wanted to better represent a multiracial society via raceswaps – then they'd already be doing white -> East Asian, white -> Indian, etc raceswaps.

Why aren't they already doing that?

>>88217710
So... an anime, for example? Like... Ghost in the Shell?

>>88217695
Oh, I see. The hammer reminded me of Steel. Would've been cool, I love when they do cheeky mashups like that in different universes.

>>88217655
Removing Superman's briefs is like changing Barbara Gordon's eye color. Changing her whole race is like making Superman's costume all red.

>you have a reason, you just won't accept it because you prefer alternatives
You seem to do the same, refusing to consider my reasoning why it shouldn't be done. The only reason you gave me is "why not", which is not a reason to mess up a character's look.

>>88217772
Nah, GITS is set in Japan and is, fundamentally about Japanese culture in the era of the post-WWII industrial boom, so that's not really a series where race isn't relevant.

>>88216878
At least Jimmy has some semblance of his personality.

The fuck is Rip and Snappers?

>>88217750
>I shouldn't ask anything. There are already people asking for representation.
That's retarded
How could one more person asking for more representation not help people actually get representation?
You don't have to ask for it, but other people asking for something isn't really an excuse to not ask for it yourself.

>Why aren't they already doing that?
They are trying to, but whenever someone gets race swapped, such as Barbara Gordon to an afro-latina, people always get upset and have huge arguments about whether or not they should
There are several minority characters "taking up the mantle" of other characters, far more than there are of characters getting "race swapped"
In the future, hopefully there will be, but saying that raceswaps shouldn't happen because companies haven't raceswapped all races yet doesn't make much sense

>>88217855
>Changing her whole race is like making Superman's costume all red
That happened before
There was also an all blue superman

>You seem to do the same, refusing to consider my reasoning why it shouldn't be done
I've been arguing against that, proving examples as to things that have happened in the past that more resemble my argument than yours
The only "reasoning" you have is that it hasn't been done before

>>88216878
Of course not. It would be silly for a blackifier machine to do that.

Superman obviously has a completely different machine for that.

>>88216764
What has brick done that's memborable?

>>88217863
I'm sure there were enough gaijin living in Japan at that time. Besides, that's just thematically. It's a story set in the future, why should race matter?

Also, Marvel's Asgard is thematically based on Dark Ages mythology of the Scandinavian nations. Didn't stop them from casting a rather non-Scandinavian Heimdall, did it?

>>88217887
Me not asking for it is also not a valid reason for why it's not happening. I hope you understand that.
>people always get upset and have huge arguments about whether or not they should
So you're saying that stops them from making white -> Asian etc. raceswaps. Why doesn't it stop them when they make white -> black raceswaps then?
>saying that raceswaps shouldn't happen because companies haven't raceswapped all races yet doesn't make much sense
Again, not my point.
My point is, if companies actually made raceswaps because they wanted to "represent a diverse society", they'd do diverse raceswaps, instead of just white -> black.

>>88214566
We already had Irish Ras with Liam Neeson.

>>88218091
thats_the_joke.jpg

>>88218076
>Me not asking for it is also not a valid reason for why it's not happening
It's also proof that you're only bringing up the notion so that raceswaps stop completely

>they'd do diverse raceswaps, instead of just white -> black.
I'm sure in the future they will, as long as people keep fighting for more diverse societies

>>88217927
>That happened before
>There was also an all blue superman
And it was shit. Or do you want to say that it was a good, quality move on DC's part? I wouldn't be surprised, actually.

>The only "reasoning" you have is that it hasn't been done before
No. Of course race-swapping preexisting characters has been done before. What are you even talking about?
My reasoning is that a character has a certain iconic look and background, which includes their costume, face, bodytype, important biographical points and personality traits.
When DC ignored that with Amanda Waller and made her thin in Nu52, and then in some other media as well, it was a travesty because her bodytype was iconic for her character. But of course you'd probably defend that bullshit too.

It's just an elseworld chill.
If Superman can be a commie in one world, black in another, and a whole bunch of things everywhere else why can't Barbara be a brown lego person?

>>88218091
White Ra's was a stupid thing to happen. The movie itself was okay, but I didn't like that portrayal, especially since Ra's Al Ghul is one of my favorite villains.

>>88218076
They do other swaps tho, yes even white to asian

>>88218140
Again you're assuming things. I'm only saying that the companies are dishonest.

>I'm sure in the future they will
I'm sure they won't. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

>>88213637
Someone post the Boondocks strip

>>88218195
>And it was shit.
And there have been superman stories that were completely retarded
That doesn't mean they should stop writing superman
That just means that they should just get better

>My reasoning is that a character has a certain iconic look and background
raceswapping a character doesn't change that background in a fantastic or sci fi setting where literally anything can happen
>face, body type, important biographical points and personality traits
all things that change based on who is reading it

>it was a travesty because her bodytype was iconic for her character
But it really didn't change the role of the character or how she acted, which is far more important to the quality of the story than where she grew up or whether or not she has a specific hair style

>>88214107
>Point me to a black woman with natural flowing red hair

No need. 1966 Babs, which I consider a definitve version of Batgirl when it comes to looks, canonically wore a long flowing red wig to hide her adorable raven pixie cut.

>>88213729

Harvey was played by Billy Dee Williams in batman 89. There were plans to have him as Two Face, this is a homage to that.

Selina was played by Eartha Kitt in the 60s batman and was black in Batman Year one.

So besides baiting, there's no reason to get mad about the casting for these two.

>>88218545
>That doesn't mean they should stop writing superman
Of course not. But they should stop making changes that mess up what makes Superman iconic.

>raceswapping a character doesn't change that background in a fantastic or sci fi setting where literally anything can happen
It's a visual and character-driven medium, it changes enough.

>But it really didn't change the role of the character or how she acted, which is far more important to the quality of the story than where she grew up or whether or not she has a specific hair style
So what, you're defending what they did to Waller? Seriously?

>>88214952

You weren't around for Last Airbender obviously.

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>>88218825
And what's iconic to superman, and all heroes, isn't their race
Unless their backstory has to do with some sort of racial anything

>It's a visual and character-driven medium, it changes enough.
it being a visual medium is an even greater reason that there can easily be raceswapping
In both harry potter and james bond, as well as any other literature with a visual adaptation, people get upset when other want literally race for a character
It being a visual medium just means that the only canon that exists for race is precedent, which just means that it's never explicitly been stated that Superman has to be white, that's just what's happened before
Something happening before doesn't mean it has to happen in that exact same way again

>So what, you're defending what they did to Waller? Seriously?
pic related is you
no I'm not calling you a cuck, a loser, a numale, etc etc, because I don't have an argument
I'm saying you resemble this image macro because "SERIOUSLY?" isn't an argument
What happened to amanda waller happened, it's honestly not a huge deal
It was only iconic to her character because people could subtly make the whole pun about her being fat and being named Waller
Yeah, it would be nice to have more representation of overweight people, but changing a character's look isn't exactly the end of a character
Viola Davis, the actress who played her in Suicide Squad, isn't exactly the biggest chick either, nobody was upset when she was cast

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>>88214690

Because of pressure from a growing SJW mentality that every movie, TV show, or cartoon needs to represent diversity.
...and by diversity, SJW's mean one or more black people.

Doesn't matter to these fuckers that the Gordon family has been stated to be from Irish descent in the comics.

Also, Barbara Gordon has been voiced by a black actress before. It never caused them to model the character after the voice actress before, so that really can't be the excuse for something that is blatantly done to pander to SJWs and Black lives Matter.

>>88219322
*Latina
Babs needs to go back.

>>88219322
>Doesn't matter to these fuckers that the Gordon family has been stated to be from Irish descent in the comics.
See that's where you're going astray. This isn't comics Batman, this is the Lego Batman continuity. After the Crisis on Infinity Bricks Barbara and her father were reconstituted as Black Irish. And Lego Joker has shark teeth.

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>>88213530
What the fuck is the other way around!?

>>88214781
>Because Babs is
>Because her voice actor is

Bullshit. The voice actress from the Injustice game is also black, and the character is white.

>>88213530
I don't see anything particularly wrong in changing the race or any other characteristic of a character, as long as:
1- it makes sense in the setting and makes things interesting
2- they could not cast anyone that resembles the original character.

Shimalangdong had the same issue in the Last airbender movie, people shitted on the choice and called it whitewashing, but there is just NO good inuit actor. Sometimes the only way for a movie to even exist is to change the race of a character... and sometimes the movie should not exist.

Notice that sometimes the behavior or acting of an actor resembles the original character to the point the other traits can be ignored.

>>88219214
>And what's iconic to superman, and all heroes, isn't their race
It's their personality, their major bio elements, their looks (incl.race), and their costume

>It being a visual medium just means that the only canon that exists for race is precedent, which just means that it's never explicitly been stated that Superman has to be white, that's just what's happened before
That's backwards logic.
In a visual medium, a character's look and design is iconic, while in a non-visual medium, it doesn't play as much of a role. A book might never describe a character's hair color at all, but in a comic book it's part of a character's design (unless they wear a mask that covers it).
If Superman was designed white with dark hair and a blue-red caped costume, that means that Superman as a character is white with dark hair and a blue-red caped costume. In a visual medium, a character's visual design is as important as the writing, and should be as consistent. A buff dark-haired white guy with a red-gold caped costume is Captain Marvel, not Superman.

>Something happening before doesn't mean it has to happen in that exact same way again
That's like saying Superman might be retooled into crash landing in a city and growing up there instead of a Kansas farm.
Inconsistencies like that just water down a character and their iconic concept. If someone wants to have a city-born super alien, why not create a new character for that idea.

>I'm saying you resemble this image macro because "SERIOUSLY?" isn't an argument
It wasn't an argument, you idiot, it was a question.

>It was only iconic to her character because people could subtly make the whole pun about her being fat and being named Waller
Speak for yourself. It was something that made her unique, and in a way, look iconic. They took it away and made her look much more bland.

>Yeah, it would be nice to have more representation of overweight people
I'm not exactly thin, and I couldn't care less for "representation".

>>88216192
when i was a kid girls of every color wanted to be storm

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Did they cast Jim yet? I have some suggestions

>>88213978
>New black/minority characters appear all the time to fit various roles, but people get super upset when non-whites take mantles that white characters held.

I personally hate legacy characters. There's rarely any real canon reason for names to be passed on It's usually just to profit on a name. There could very fucking well be a black Robin for this reason. Bruce adopts a black kid. Now little Jaquan is Robin. See. It's easy if you take the time instead of just changing an existing character for reasons.

I also hate that Marvel took up making more and more of them to fill a diversity quota. DC sucks for diversity as far as I can tell, but Marvel has a lot of characters that aren't legacies that are great and diverse but they books don't sell as well and we're stuck with them making legacies now and then changing them back when people get bored of them. Ms. Marvel is the only character that doesn't suck and I'm slowly getting tired of her being spread thin.

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>>88213530
Bavk in april I remember seeing Rosario Dawson when I was at a bernie sanders rally in Manhattan. Feels good man.

>>88220111
Minus the orphan and claustrophobia parts. Hell yeah.

Will there ever be a redhead in /co/ adaptations again?

>>88219322
>in the comics
This is the lego batman movie

What is it with DC turning redheads and gingers black?

>>88220359
>DC
Mera's gonna be redhead
They swapped Lois Lane for redhead
The character here at least still has read hair and isn't actually black.

>>88214279
We can do one with black characters too if your implying theres too many redheads

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>>88213530

It might have something to do with the fact that nonwhite heroes also sell well, creators want to appeal to these profitable audiences, but because copyright law has changed they will no longer get the same level of control and profitability from new IPs unless the creators give them some very special privilages that are almost unheard of today, therefore they take the abundance of white characters they have and make some of them nonwhite

Why does raceswapping need to be done in the first place?
It's just a cheap gimmick that pisses off long term fans to try and bring in a short term boost.

It also is pretty much the same as admitting that they can't make these diverse characters without latching them onto a pre-established white identity and character that is already well established and successful.
Then on top of that, when they do have diverse characters that were already established and successful they fuck them up entirely and drive it into the ground.
Remember what New52 did with Static and Milestone?

Milestone should be a beacon for anyone who wants to make comics. If you want to tell stories that relate to you, your situation, your view. Make new characters, make them well written and people will be drawn to them.

But comics don't want to take risks either, making a whole new character and putting a push behind it is too much of a risk that may upset the normal balance.
Might as well just throw a dart at a board and turn whatever character it hits into a transgender queer black muslim.
Because that's good writing, appearantly!

>>88220072
>It's their personality
Not at all
Campy Adam West batman and 50s batman beg to differ
>bio elements
what?
>their looks/race
again, no
>their costume
again, no

>In a visual medium, a character's look and design is iconic
cape comics change character's basic designs and looks far too often for anything except a basic color pallet and insignia to be iconic
If a black guy can wear a superman costume and still be recognized as superman, then race obviously isn't a huge part of who a character is
>in a non-visual medium, it doesn't play as much of a role
Because the scar on harry potter isn't just as iconic
In a non-visual medium, things like character descriptions are key. But in a visual-medium, you can change whatever you want and as long as people can still recognize it, it's valid
Art in comics doesn't matter nearly as much as the story
Art is nice, but people choose good stories over good art nearly 100% of the time

>That's like saying Superman might be retooled into crash landing in a city and growing up there instead of a Kansas farm.
Where superman grows up changes in many different stories and they are all superman
It doesn't water down the character, it just introduces a difference to tell a different story
Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse

>It wasn't an argument, you idiot, it was a question.
One that I subsequently answered
This is why I called you out on it, it has nothing to do with your argument and yet you found it relevant enough to bring it up again

>It was something that made her unique, and in a way, look iconic. They took it away and made her look much more bland.
If we're speaking for ourselves, I could easily say that there's no problem because batgirl's race has nothing to do with the manner in which she is iconic

>I'm not exactly thin, and I couldn't care less for "representation".
Not my point, but if you didn't care about representation, then why shit on people who do and tell them how they should be represented?

>>88214122
The same reason there's a war on Christmas.

Because up until now mainstream comics have almost exclusively catered to them. The other guys getting a piece of the pie feels like their rights are being taken away

>>88220547
baka at entertaining OP

I am more upset about her being comissioner than her being Puerto Rican. Or is she Dominican?

>>88214280
It's Ind- I mean Guatemala Flash Thompson all over again.

I like Ginger Jim Gordon.

Barbara could be a googly eye alien and i still wouldn't give a fuck.

>>88220568
>It's just a cheap gimmick that pisses off long term fans to try and bring in a short term boost.
Because those short term boosts are worth several hundreds of millions and the "long term fans" are only worth hundreds of thousands

So why not bring in short term boosts every couple of years?

>It also is pretty much the same as admitting that they can't make these diverse characters without latching them onto a pre-established white identity and character that is already well established and successful.
If they did admit that, would you be more okay with it happening, or is that just you insulting them and the practice?

>But comics don't want to take risks either
This has little to do with comics, we're talking about a lego movie anon
we might reference comics, but that's only to support our arguments about the lego movie

Making a whole new character and putting a push behind it is a really dumb idea in a business that has made the majority of it's money writing about the same characters for the past 50+ years
There aren't any other ways to successfully promote diverse characters and maintain the same amount of profit without making them adopt the personas of other characters

Because if people honestly wanted to read about other characters, they would
There's a reason they keep rebooting the same characters over and over and there's also a reason all the other, different or newer, characters that simultaneously get rebooted don't receive future reboots

>>88220605
Horseshit, that excuse doesn't fly when you're changing current characters without a good reason.

>>88220188
Legacy characters can be annoying if written poorly so they feel forced, but at least they're better than changing existing ones.

The reason they do legacies is at least kind of understandable from a medium standpoint. It's the same reason death isn't final in comics. Companies need to keep their trademarks, and they have to do it by publishing comics featuring those trademarks from time to time.

>>88214279
5 of these 8 are from Marvel, which is not surprising because either Stan or Jack had a boner for redheads. Starfire is an alien with Donald Trump skin so she doesn't really count. Leaves 2 true redheads from DC, Batgirl and Ivy.

>>88220751
>So why not bring in short term boosts every couple of years?
Why cut off your hand to buy a new pair of gloves?
Long Term Fans are established, these are the people they want to create. They have large pull lists of books they like and will spend money regularly, keeping the company in business when one of the gimmick pushes isn't in effect.
However, if they get tired of gimmicks or the direction the company is taking, they move on and drop the company entirely, meaning that established regular cash flow dries up.

This is a big part of why the current comic industry is drying up, people are leaving Marvel and DC when they pull bullshit like this because they're getting tired of it.
DC Rebirth was a push to try and get those readers back by reintroducing things that drew those established fans in the first place.

>If they did admit that, would you be more okay with it happening
They already did admit it, and it'll never be okay.
Make new characters, write them well, draw in new readers.

>Because if people honestly wanted to read about other characters, they would
But they do. People are abandoning Marvel in droves, to the point Marvel has to send thousands of free comics to stores to artificially inflate their numbers.
They're going to IDW and Image and other companies.
DC only recently starting bringing those people back with Rebirth.

>>88220605
So make more new non-white characters to cater to non-whites. Like DC already did with Blue Beetle, Cass Cain, John Stewart, Ryan Choi, Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz, etc etc.

But sorry, of course it's just evil racists hating blacks, or some shit like that, carry on.

>>88217695
Man, sometimes it floors me how bad cape artists are at drawing kids

>>88214542
Shaun King is Black.
his mother is white, is biological father is a black guy.
his step dad is listed on his birth certificate because he was married to his mom

>>88220568
>Remember what New52 did with Static and Milestone?

>Milestone should be a beacon for anyone who wants to make comics. If you want to tell stories that relate to you, your situation, your view. Make new characters, make them well written and people will be drawn to them.
THIS.

>>88221140
Should take a look at Champions sometime, the first issue or two is about a slave ring and they keep going on about children slaves and child trafficking, but all the girls in the issue look around 18.

>>88220595
>Campy Adam West batman and 50s batman beg to differ
>again, no
>again, no
So did I get you right? You can write and draw whatever you want, and then slap an existing name on it, and it's good writing. Right?

>If a black guy can wear a superman costume and still be recognized as superman
He can be a Superman, but he's not the same OG Kal-El Superman

>Because the scar on harry potter isn't just as iconic
I didn't say it plays zero role, I said it doesn't in general play as much of a role.

>Art in comics doesn't matter nearly as much as the story
Bullshit.
It's a visual medium. Try changing the color scheme of Goku's outfit or Asterix' hair color. It breaks the iconicity of the characters.

>I could easily say that there's no problem because batgirl's race has nothing to do with the manner in which she is iconic
What makes Barbara Gordon iconic? Her backstory, her making the costume out of scratch, her wearing purple, and her being white with red hair.

>why shit on people who do
I don't shit on these people. I shit on the companies who mess with established characters to pretend they care about these people.

>and tell them how they should be represented?
Wut

>>88220568
>Remember what New52 did with Static and Milestone?
Yeah. If DC actually cared about black readers, Static would've already been their Miles Morales. And would probably featured in this movie, instead of awkwardly blackfaced Babs.

>>88213530
whats the point, whats the fucking point, just get the mexican question she literally serves the exact same fucking goddamn purpose in this movie.

>>88221475
>or asterix's hair color
lol what

>>88221605
Renee Montoya. That's a valid question, anon

>>88221725
he's blonde

>>88221605
Because it doesn't get the short term shock value and let the company call anyone who dislikes it racist.

>>88217170

If the actor can't voice their character properly because of the skin color in a goddamn cartoon about lego then they're a shit actress to start with.

>>88213530

But black characters are a tiny minority and the vast majority of the depictions of this character have been white.

What's the issue? It's not like we're not going to have a white version of the character again, not that it particularly matters. I'm sure there are plenty of other caucasian minifigures for young white girls to model themselves on.

It should also be said, Black people make up 12% of america where White people make up over 63%
i think Hispanic is now near 19%, but even with that 31% is half of the white population, thats why all our media is mainly white, because the fucking country is statistically mainly white.

the race mixing shit is retarded. objectively.

>>88221752
yeah, thats the name. shes also way more kick ass than barbara ever was.

>>88221986
Even then, the characters here are mostly white.

>>88221192
>Shaun King is Black.

Back to tumblr

>>88221752
Hey Carlos

>>88222054
im not saying keep the cast all white, but dont change a white character to another race, get renee montoya or cass or something, subtracting the white is so stupid.

>>88214542
>Race rules are moving away from genetics and parentage and towards 100 percent self identification.

Only in shitty places like California

>>88214542
>>88215089
Did you niggers just seriously bring up Rachel Dolezal?

>>88221887

Look, if they where making a live action version of the character and the best actor for the role was a black actress who could really sell it?

Cool. Even Catwoman was played by a black woman back in the 60s for no reason beyond Ertha Kitt being awesome.

This is a cartoon though. There's no reason to race swap for any reason than "You want the attention" there's zero reason any decent actor should have a hard time playing a character who's not the same race as they are.

>>88221036
There's a decent number of dude red heads too if this is a "representation" argument.

The real stupid shit is if they wanted a minority batgirl then Cassandra already exists. This weird shit where you have to have Barbara but also have to have a minority is such cognitive dissonance.

>>88221079
>Why cut off your hand to buy a new pair of gloves?
Why give up on some of the most lucrative deals of literally any century?
The revenue from movie sales alone is enough to buy an island
factor in merch and stuff and you're a billionaire
Joss Whedon's net worth more than quadrupled thanks to his work

>This is a big part of why the current comic industry is drying up, people are leaving Marvel and DC when they pull bullshit like this because they're getting tired of it.
Yeah, comic sales have never been that great
The biggest reason the current comic industry is dying is because other media that's cheaper and easier to consume exists
Same with radio and newspapers

>They already did admit it, and it'll never be okay.
So why bring it up?
You being right about how desperate they are to get new people doesn't mean you're right about whether or not it's working

>But they do. People are abandoning Marvel in droves, to the point Marvel has to send thousands of free comics to stores to artificially inflate their numbers.
Like I said, print comics are a dying industry in America
It's why a lot of people are going digital

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>>88222284
There's also no reason not to change it if they decide to. There was no reason to make Robin look like Carrie Kelley but they did that too. Or give Joker shark teeth. It's bizarre watching people getting upset as if the change somehow significantly alters the very nature of the characters. Superman flying was actually a rather significant departure from when he just jumped really high. Batman hating guns and killing doesn't jive with his first issues. Barbara Gordon and her dad being a slightly darker shade of Lego figure? This is what is getting panties in a twist? It's not even like the Lego continuity matters a damn to the comics anyway. This is something you have to really go out of your way to get asspained over.

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>>88222460

Seriously this is the big thing. They want to use their ICONIC BG but they also want to use the minority card while AGGRESSIVELY ignore the actual minority Batgirl they have.

The same problem this always creates is that it's not actual minority representation when you leave the actual minority out the dry.

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>>88222743
Not just vampires, he also hates necks. This is the real reason Wonder Woman loved him.

>>88222715
>Why give up on some of the most lucrative deals of literally any century?
>The revenue from movie sales alone is enough to buy an island
They can have their movie sales without raceswapping characters and pushing away traditional fans.
Generation artificial outrage and calling everyone who disagrees racist didn't help Fiegbusters.

>So why bring it up?
>You being right about how desperate they are to get new people doesn't mean you're right about whether or not it's working
Why shouldn't I? If you don't bring it up, they won't listen.
And if it was working, they still wouldn't be so desperate to get new people.
They also wouldn't be artificially inflating their sales numbers to make them look more successful then they actually are, which is proof this shit just hurts them.

>>88213583
Anything to wash the taste of Bruce Timm's Killing Joke Barbara out of my mouth.

>>88213530
Speaking of The Lego Batman Movie.

Anyone looking forward to it?

>>88221475
>You can write and draw whatever you want, and then slap an existing name on it, and it's good writing. Right?
No, why would the way a character looks have more to do with the writing than anything?
Having a goofy slapstick character doesn't automatically mean the writing is goofy.

>He can be a Superman, but he's not the same OG Kal-El Superman
Nobody is saying that this is the same OG barbara gordon
She's afro-latina and her name is barbara gordon, it's a different universe

> I said it doesn't in general play as much of a role.
But you didn't disagree that the scar isn't as iconic as superman's insignia
Which would mean that the role it plays is larger than you're letting on

>It's a visual medium. Try changing the color scheme of Goku's outfit or Asterix' hair color. It breaks the iconicity of the characters.
It being a visual medium doesn't mean that everything has to be the exact same to be iconic. It being iconic means that it can differ wildly, but as long as it's recognizable, it's still that thing.
The american flag is iconic, and you can still recognize that someone is using the american flag, even if it's on a bikini where one boob is blue with stars and the other one is striped
If you changed the colors of the American flag, it would still look like the American flag.
Asterix's hair color isn't iconic, you can still recognize a black and white asterix drawing.

Goku's outfit isn't iconic

>What makes Barbara Gordon iconic? Her backstory, her making the costume out of scratch, her wearing purple, and her being white with red hair.
So close
If a black girl can wear a batgirl costume and people recognize her as wearing a batgirl costume, then how is her being white iconic?

> I shit on the companies who mess with established characters to pretend they care about these people.
And if the people they are pretending to care about are okay with the way they are being represented, why should it matter to you?

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>>88222815
>hates necks

>>88222963
>They can have their movie sales without raceswapping characters and pushing away traditional fans.
Or they can have even greater sales by drawing in new fans and keeping the traditional fans who don't really give a shit about race
Because honestly, the "traditional fans" don't make up that big of a percentage of the audience, particularly

>Generation artificial outrage and calling everyone who disagrees racist didn't help Fiegbusters.
And race-swapping didn't really hurt CW's flash

>Why shouldn't I? If you don't bring it up, they won't listen.
You aren't telling anyone who matters any more than you do, so why bring it up in this argument?

>And if it was working, they still wouldn't be so desperate to get new people.
>They also wouldn't be artificially inflating their sales numbers to make them look more successful then they actually are, which is proof this shit just hurts them.
It's proof that the industry is dying
If raceswapping characters didn't help, and raceswapping characters has been done multiple times before, then why else would they do it?

>>88221036
Count again.
Caitlin, Babs, Ivy, Starfire, Kate.
MJ, Firestar, Jean, Mystique, Medusa
It's 5 each.

And that's not including Natasha Romanov, Mera, Maxima, Lana Lang, Artemis, M'gann, Carrie, Giganta, Cheetah, Vicky Vale, Elsa Bloodstone, Julie Power, Wolfsbane, or any of the billion Jean Grey clones and time travel babies.
Or any of the guys.
Gingers aren't going extinct in comic books man. Stop trying to pretend they are.

>>88222743
Superman flying was an evolution of the character, like him leveling up in powers. Same with the writers solidifying Batman's hate for guns. It's an evolution, a progress.

>>88223611
Superman flying was because it's easier to animate.
Laziness is great for creativity.

>>88223611
Well you might call this progressive, I suppose. Not the kind of progress you want. Not all changes have to be beneficial. Sometimes they're benign. This is fairly benign with people running around screaming that the sky is falling.

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>>88223048
>No, why would the way a character looks have more to do with the writing than anything?

If the way a character looks doesn't matter than there's no reason to make them look different. No one is going to skip the movie because Babs isn't black.

If you want to use a minority Batgirl there is one and she could really use the push.

>>88222758
>>88222460
EXACTLY THIS.

As I said, if the reason they do raceswaps is because they "care about representation" – why didn't they use Cass Cain? Or do they just not care about Asians?