Who gets crapped on by the writers more?

>>88118143
Hank was regarded as a hero on his apparent death.

Cyclops is remembered as Hitler

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>>88118143
That is tough.
My gut says hank, because he will always be
>LOL WIFE BEATER LOL
Or at least till bendis's fat ass chokes on his bulls BBC.

Rightclops... Well havent read enough but I know he gets shit on for having the audacity to lookout for his people without being a moron.

Sad to see shitty writes ruin great characters.

>>88118143
Well Rightclops isnt only dead, the brought back his past self to also constantly say how much of a monster he is.

>>88118143
Definitely Hank.

>>88118225
Do you know what I hate the most about the people who constantly shit on Cyclops. They say he isn't cool because he doesn't strike off on his own. I actually think that's what makes him such a cool character.

He is a character who is so, so broken. He is a guy who basically had the world shit on him the moment his plane was hijacked. He can't lose control for a second, otherwise he might vaporize the world around him. His life was wrecked by Sinister. He has watched friends and family die or leave him.

But even though he would be well in his right to break and sometimes does, he always gets back up on his feet and stands up for what he believes in. He places the world on his shoulders again and again, not because he is the only one who can, but because he does not want anyone to feel the way he does.

To me, that is truly heroic. That is someone who is awesome. That is a good man. I don't see how that can be mistranslated to being a weakling.

In Death of X, young past Cyclops was forced to watch his future self die right in front of him. That's got to be pretty traumatizing.

Only one of the two options was called literally Hitler. As far I know Pyms only real mistake was creating ultron and roughing up his wife. So it makes sense that people dislike Pym, it doesn't make sense for anyone in the Marvel universe to dislike Scott. He was right about the Phoenix force and he was right about the Inhuman's fart cloud.

>>88118188
This

>>88118143
Hank, easily. At least Cyclops even when they made him Mutant Che, was taken seriously as a character and written as such. Hank hasn't been written seriously probably ever.

Hank's gotten less focus than Cyclops, who was only really shit on in the last few years. I can't really think of any trademark series or A-List books that Hank stars in regularly.

>>88118143
Pym managed to turn a lifetime of inconsistent narrative into compelling characterisation.
Scott just got pushed further and further out of character because the writers wanted a bad guy, rather than it growing out of what had already been written about him.

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You had to call out my top two in marvel...

Hmmm...
The wife-beater or the tranny...?

I pick the one who was unceremoniously killed off.

>>88122910
And yet every time the fail to convince anyone he's actually the bad guy.

>>88123444
Scott's a tranny?

>>88123911
No, he's a wife-beater. Read a comic.

>>88118143

more or worse? More probably Pym, Worse is easily cyclops.

>>88121611
>>88122843
Avengers AI should have continued and the PYMtron storyline was actually pretty awesome.

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>>88124645
Pym's was more fun to read.

But I have to argue about the longest one: Scott's character assassination began with Thunderbird's death right after Giant-Sized #1.

>>88118143
I really wish they got off the wife beating, wasn't it just one slap?

>>88127147
I don't know, I think at some point he also built a robot to slap her around when his hand got tired...

>>88127147
It wasn't even meant to look like domestic violence and more like an accident

>>88123911
It's some retarded tumblr theory/meme.

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>>88127480
Keep telling yourself that.
And then when the police arrive, tell them too.

Christ, you're really missing the point here?
A guy can be a swell guy, Hell, he can even be a hero, but that doesn't forgive or make impossible him committing domestic violence.
Bullies have friends too, and those friends think those bullies are great guys, but that doesn't mean that they are great guys to everyone they ever meet. They're still bullies.

>>88127650
>Muh domestic violence boogey man!
She knowingly and willfully manipulated a man she knew was not only mentally unstable but being mind controlled to force him into a marriage to continue her own superficial lifestyle.

He was, 100%, not a fault here.

No one EVER fucking tells of the mental abuse she enabled. Because she's the "girl" and hence automatically the protected one.

And no, this isn't a meme. This is exactly what she did.

>>88118784
>roughing up his wife
Post evidence that isn't...

>>88127650
...this pic. Because this post: >>88127715 pretty much sums up what the fuck is wrong with everyone calling him a wife beater.

>>88127715
>>88127823
You are still advocating physical violence against a spouse in retaliation for nonviolent actions.
Some marriages suck, some are entered into through manipulative means, that doesn't justify anything other than divorce.
You just want to excuse hitting someone smaller than yourself.
That's your moral high-horse. Remember that.

>>88127962
>mental abuse is ok if you're a girl!
He was literally going through a schizo episode, which she knew of, and manipulated him. To commit a criminal act you have to be in mental control of you faculties. He was not. And he was in no mental condition to be married, nor ask for a divorce. He was literally (and I actually mean this) LITERALLY the victim here. Not her.

Try again, Reddit.

>>88127962
>You just want to excuse hitting someone smaller than yourself.
well yeah of course, she's the wasp

>>88127962
ANd you don't read your Marvel history where it was stated that that panel was an accident.

>>88128052
>>88128011
>>88128027
At least two of you are lying, why don't you three get your story straight and then get back to me?

I still cant get over how Hank was immediately labeled a fucking wife beater after ONE damning panel. Im not defending his actions against Janet, but people got carried away with it and pretend like he always treated Janet like shit. Hell Reed Richards was more of a shit spouse to Sue and you hardly hear about that

>>88128106
>two of you are lying
Two are fact and one is trolling. Well, if we don't count you. Have one last (You).

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>>88128110
Sue does have a long history of complaining about her husband, aside from exploring the Namor option, she has even been separated from him from time to time, like during the first Civil War.

>>88128110
It wasn't even damning, honestly.

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>>88118225
>without being a moron.
>Let's all go to storms wedding and leave the x-kids alone after 40 of them died and there's a ate group on the rampage
>Hey guys the pheonix will totally work this time

Cyclops has dome some pretty stupid shit, guy

>>88128144
"Trolling"?
Like when you rant and rave at the girlfriend you've just knocked to the floor?
Or make flimsy excuses as to why that crime you committed against her is "entirely 100%" her fault?

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>>88128110
Because he didn't have a whole lot more going on and suffered ramifications for it.
Hank is constantly getting overshadowed to the point it's a part of his character. So the one thing that wasn't taken from him or overshadowed are his failures. He's pretty much the guy who made the Avengers happen, but he gets overshadowed by the bigger names he brought into the fold. So all he gets are his biggest mistakes of creating Ultron and hitting his wife once.

>>88128275
>all cannon
>YOU'RE THE ACTUAL ONE THAT HIT HER
Oh, I see. You're confusing fantasy with reality.

>>88128228
Oh, I get it!
This is just that trolling that >>88128144 mentioned!
Why else would you look at a scene of a man striking a woman hard enough to knock her to the ground and post that?
You're obviously saying something you don't believe just to provoke the deterioration of the conversation...
I get it.

>>88128274
To be fair about the pheonix one, didn't the Avengers ended up using his plan anyway and him controlling it only started to fail was because he was the only one controlling it?

>>88128331
(You)

>>88128345

look the whole thing was idiots all around but everyone being retarded doesn't make you not

>>88128294
Twice, two strikes in two separate comics.
And then there was that threatening behavior in other scenes where he was intentionally trying to intimidate her.
There's also the violence against other allies and more than one betrayal of the Avengers over the years.

>>88128419
That's true, but doesn't that make him at least less retarded?

>>88118143
>tfw these are my two favorite characters in the Marvel Universe and always have been

I must have been a DCuck in a past life and am being punished for it.

>>88128468
>This entity that has killed zillions is headed towards earth
>maybe it wants to be my friend

No, no. Id say the avengers are less retarded here if only for the fact that well..IT KILLED ZILLIONS! They reacted poorly and didn't handle it so well sure but at least they didn't react to the situation with "Jackpot"

>>88128345
To be completely honest, Scott wanted Xavier dead for a long time.
The Phoenix was just a seemingly perfect alibi, he didn't go Dark Phoenix and lose control until after he killed Xavier.

>>88118576

By contrast you have Wolverine, someone who gives into his pain and emotions every damn time usually not even trying very hard to resist breaking, loved by everyone.

Rightclops deserves better.

>>88127715

I'd never heard of that side off the story before actually. Mind expanding on it? It sounds really interesting.

>>88128514
>loved by everyone
Except all his kids who he murdered straight to hell.

Actually his afterlife must be shit...assuming he's dead...which he isn't.

>>88128345
The Summers plan of giving Hope the Phoenix force, because that's obviously why she exists, ended up working in the end but not because the Avengers embraced the idea: they just stumbled into that happening.

>>88128573
Good luck ever hearing that, it's bullshit headcanon.

>>88128294

I don't get this but I also don't remember Cap's origin story for shit.

>>88128573
Someone on /co/ might still have the infographic. The entirety of the actual history between Pym and Janet is laid out issue by issue, where and how she knows everything on top of what problems he was going through at the time.

Hank wasn't even in his right mind when he hit her. He was suffering from a fractured personality after having his mind fucked up from inadvertently inhaling some chemicals in his lab.

The guy went to fucking PRISON. He was shamed and humiliated, punished to the maximum extent in every way for his mistakes. Even after he got out, he tried to make things right but couldn't live with himself and was actually going to commit suicide if Firebird hadn't stepped in. Nobody ever really gave two fucks about him even when he was a kid, and in the end he gave his life for everyone else anyway.

>>88128604
>I don't read comics.
Pym's been through seven identities now. Seven. And that's not counting the CANNON mental issues. On top of the fact she literally IS written as superficial.

If it's no longer cannon that Janet is manipulative it's because it was retconned and the Pym thing wasn't.

>>88128626
That's not even counting the fact Ultron was mind-controlling him.

>>88128644
Ultron's mind controlling everyone all the fucking time. It's literally how he doesn't die.

>>88128506
>Cable had come from the future saying if the Avengers get a hold of Hope the world ends
>We have multiple examples of Phoenix hosts being perfectly fine with the Phoenix force inside of them
>Rachel herself said Hope was perfectly capable
>Avengers want to take Hope from the X-Men instead of working with them
>Wolverine tries to kill Hope

Na Cyke had every right.

>>88128663
>Wolverine tries to kill Hope
This is literally the only fucking thing I don't understand. I can get the Avengers being power hungry assholes (just look at the roster). But THIS? What in the literal fuck? He knows the fucking deal with the Phoenix. Why the fuck would he give it a reason to rage at Earth? Jesus.

>>88128626
>Hank wasn't even in his right mind when he hit her. He was suffering from a fractured personality after having his mind fucked up from inadvertently inhaling some chemicals in his lab.
No, at the time he was taking out his jealousy and feelings of inadequacy on his co-workers and spouse.
Of course you can't exactly make much of a likeable protagonist form that, so Marvel retconned it to be the Yellowjacket persona at it again.

>The guy went to fucking PRISON
Neither the Avengers nor Janet pressed charges for either of his offenses against them.

He went to prison for an entirely different bad decision, admittedly during the same Arc.

>>88128616

"infographic"???
is that anything like "bullshit headcanon edit"???

>>88128738
No. It means I don't have it saved. Keep using that Reddit-tier word, though, Reddit. You don't stick out or anything.

>>88128701

It was part of the "Make Cyclops look evil" initiative. Turn all the most popular X-Men into uncle toms (Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, Wolverine) and then put all the "evil/assholish" ones on Scott's side (Emma, Magik, Magneto, Namor)

Piotr's an outlier because he's based.

>>88128345
The Avengers also being retards doesn't make Cyke's harebrained plan any less irresponsible or dangerous.

>>88128784

Oh I left out Beast but he's literally always been the biggest fucking uncle tom so it goes without saying.

>>88128793
Yeah? What's the alternative to Scott's plan?

Pick your poison.

> A.) The Phoenix destroys Earth in an attempt to awaken mutants because there isn't anyone suitable to control it.
> B.) The Celestials destroy Earth because the Phoenix was banished and mutants no longer exist there.

It's either one of these two OR you can go along with Scott's plan. You pick.

>>88128793

What exactly makes Scott's plan irresponsible? The Phoenix was coming for Hope and nothing can stop the Phoenix. Anything that fucks with the Phoenix or its host just sets it off. Knowing this Scott let the girl who has survived with the Phoenix Force inside her and live to tell the tale train Hope to be able to best handle it.

>>88128631
>He had seven costume identities!
>That must mean he has seven voices in his sicko head!

And all seven "identities" just happen to be sleazebag wife-beaters dressed up as different superheroes who haven't fucked up yet, what are the odds?

(hey, you know who else has multiple personalities? Batman! AKA: Bruce Wayne! AKA: Matches Malone!)

>>88128863

You realize you're using another clinically insane hero in your contrasting analogy, right?

>>88128863
>They all did it!
Hue.

>Using Batman as a defense to crazy.
Ironic.

Also, he beats up Catwoman all the time. And Talia. In fact... HE MIGHT BE A BIGGER DOMESTIC ABUSE CASE THAN PYM!!!

>(You)

>>88118143
Cyclops literally just started receiving his ass plowing. Pym has been taking it since the 70's+. My nigga Pym is a veteran at suffering. Cyclops just got his wings.

>>88128905
To be fair Pym was never Hitler level of hated.

Well, now that I think about it he was. People have tried to use time to kill him or change him.

Hmmm.

Wait... Could Scott and Pym be relatives?
>Goddamn that'd be funny.

>>88118225
>Sad to see shitty writes ruin great characters.
I mean there really wasn't much to Cyclop's character before the whole Rightclops shit. He was so boring in the past comics.

>>88128905
>>88128917

The difference here is Pym's wasn't hatred. It was more disgust. He was treated like an ___ant___. Everyone looks down on him. Scott on the other hand provokes straight up vitriol in anyone that speaks the name these days.

>>88127650
>Back in 1981 I was writing the Avengers. Hank Pym aka Yellowjacket was married to Janet Van Dyne aka The Wasp and things had not been going well for him for a long time.Before I embarked on the storyline that led to the end of Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne’s marriage, I reread every single appearance of both characters. His history was largely a litany of failure, always changing guises and switching back and forth from research to hero-ing because he wasn’t succeeding at either. He was never the Avenger who saved the day at the end and usually the first knocked out or captured. His most notable “achievement” in the lab was creating Ultron. Meanwhile, his rich, beautiful wife succeeded in everything she tried. She was also always flitting around his shoulders, flirting, saying things to prop up his ego.
>In that story (issue 213, I think), there is a scene in which Hank is supposed to have accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration—making a sort of “get away from me” gesture while not looking at her. Bob Hall, who had been taught by John Buscema to always go for the most extreme action, turned that into a right cross! There was no time to have it redrawn, which, to this day has caused the tragic story of Hank Pym to be known as the “wife-beater” story.

http://jimshooter.com/2011/03/hank-pym-was-not-wife-beater.html/

I was referring to this

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>>88128845
Yeah but Scott's plan carries the very real risk of Earth becoming Dbari 2: Psionic Boogaloo

Which just, doesn't seem that different from either of those two options.
Oh wait, it is, because instead of everyone on the planet, it's everyone within the entire solar system.

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>>88118143

Hank literally got cucked out of his own movie. What do you think?

>>88128972
You're right. Let's just be certainly annihilated instead of taking the only option with a chance of survival. Good idea. Hell, Tony even ADMITS it at the end.

>>88128950
>>88128917
I thought we were speaking narrative wise. Yea the characters in the universe loves Pym, but the writers really did give Pym some hard obstacles. More so than any other A-list hero.

This one's for my boy Hank Pym: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NjCzbfz-Lw

>>88128972

Scott's plan was the best of a bad situation. And there really wasn't any reason to think everything wouldn't go fine.

The Phoenix doesn't WANT to kill everything. It wants to create more mutants. So common sense dictates it's picking a host that can handle it and won't just fuck everything up.

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>>88128849
Simple: The human superheroes didn't trust those filthy muties with the fate of the planet.

>>88128951
>King Shit Editor in Chief of Marvel can't get ONE frigging Panel redrawn before it goes to print.
>Also apparently pushing someone away gives them a black eye, which is mentioned in the same issue.

>>88129011
>More so than any other A-list hero.
Of the two Cyclops is dead.

>>88129050

I blame fucking Beast.

>>88128917
The Hitler comparison was just the topic of the shit threads /pol/ kept putting up to push their Nazi crap on the wrong board.

>>88129023
>The Phoenix doesn't WANT to kill everything.
It literally runs on unborn babies, like some sort of Cosmic planned parenthood.

>>88129093

Except for the fact it was literally said in the comic.

Oh, and Erik made comparisions doing the Phoenix saga about, "You're becoming like me!"

The fuck are you talking about /pol/ for?

>>88129098
The fuck? It's the cosmic/conceptual entity of life (like Galactus is about hunger/death). What do you mean? Aborting them? I don't get it. Do you even read comics?

>>88129070
Someone has to make a list of bad shit Scott and Hank have been through.

Both are the worst fathers in Marvel history I know that. But at least Scott isn't of his own doing.

>>88129023
Common sense would also dictate not having it the two meet on or nearby the planet. Or the Sun.

Because D'Bari. And common sense dictating one NOT wanting that to repeat.

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>>88128663
>>Cable had come from the future saying if the Avengers get a hold of Hope the world ends


Yeah except if anyone Cyclops knows full well that the time line is branching not linear. Between Cable, Rachel and Bishop alone we got three alternate time lines and Im sure Im forgetting others.

Future Cable telling him anything doesn't mean shit.

>>88129141

When the Avengers getting Hope was the direct cause of that? Yes it means a lot actually.

>>88129130
It's a shitpost meant to be upsetting and get everyone off thread topic.
Just report it and move on.

>>88129137

But the whole point is that the Phoenix would revive mutantkind on EARTH.

>>88129141
The Avenger's very presence made a shit show of the entire thing.

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>>88129011
>Don't get too close or ya might get stung
>Or might get a wasp bite when I can't control my gun
>Or my cyborg sons
>Or these experiments i've done

Damn....

>>88128990
ANTS

>>88129137
>Common sense would also dictate not having it the two meet on or nearby the planet.
How? Phoenix don't give a shit where Hope is. It's going to Earth. If she's there? Great. If not? Lube up.

>>88129130
The Phoenix's powers literally run off the potential life of the universe.

The more shit it does the less life there will be in the future.

It runs on unborn babies.

>>88129116
It was not in any comic until two months ago, and that writer had been referencing chan memes in recent work.
You're pushing a lie that's intended to derail threads.
Stop now.

>>88128917
I'd like to see the two of them at a bar drinking away their misery

Hank is a woobie at this point.

>>88129196
>You're pushing a lie.
The fuck? It's literally in the comic.

>It's the /pol/ boogeyman!
Are you fucking serious right now? You're going to straight up ignore the analogies Magneto did during the Phoenix saga?

Who would you rather be for a week?
Scott Summers or Hank Pym?
You feel all the pressure that's been placed on them by the way.

>>88129183
Here's the plan, first we locate the Phoenix, kay? Shouldn't be hard, giant firey boid, makes a great big ruckus whenever it moves.

Then we take Hope, yeah, we put her in a Space Ship. Aim that Ship towards the general vicinity of the Phoenix.


Set the ship off, still aimed at the Phoenix . The two meet in Transit, do the bonding thing, Hope can learn about her newfound powers in Space, ideally a few AUs away from our Sun, then she comes back to earth and from there proceed to restore all of Mutantkind through...how did the Phoenix even DO that anyway? Never mind. But she does whatever it is the Phoenix do to bring Mutantkind back.

Bam. Mutantkind is back and the entire population of the planet didn't need to be sacrificed to do it.
Also, we gotta put Cyclops on Anti-Psychotics.

>>88129241

Scott has influence. Hank has science.

That's a tough one. Probably Scott because muggas are cooler than the Avengers. And that's assuming the Avengers even remember to invite you.

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>>88129141
Cable isn't from an alternative timeline, he started out in 616, when he travels back and forth from the future each time he goes he's going into the future that was going to happen before he timetravelled.
So his information is always accurate for the short term future.

>>88129263
>Hope in space.
>Flies by because Phoenix doesn't give a shit and doesn't manifest until it reaches where it's going.
Now what? Now you have a rogue concept on Earth destroying shit and the best candidate for controlling it properly stranded by Mars.

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>>88129152

The X-men getting hope is what was going to lead to Bishop's bad future. Never take anyone from A future's word without a grain of salt.

>>88129166

It wouldn't have gotten that bad if the x-men didn't throw a colossal tantrum thinking they could get a god bird to do what they wanted.

And you know what? Im gonna come out and say it. FORCING mutation was a dick move on Cyclops part. He wasn't reactivating the X-gene of people who lost theres, he didn't even talk to the public at large about it.

No instead we got Cyclops crying about MUH RACE and then destroyed thousands of people's lives because he wasn't the top dog of evolution anymore

No hero has ever been treated as badly as Hank.

There are even impressionable people in this very thread who hate the character because of something he did during a nervous breakdown that hack writers have chosen to focus on and make the single most important aspect of his character.

I haven't read X-men in some time. What's going on with the X-men and who's on who side?

>>88129308
>thinking they could get a god bird to do what they wanted.

But they literally did.

Hank "smack a skank" Pym did nothing wrong

>>88129325

Nothing new really other than the same people that have hated Scott since Schism hate him even more now and call him Hitler for trying to save them.

>>88129226
The same challenge from the last time you shitposters pushed this still stands, post a page of that name being used for Cyclops before your fake little Champions #2 justification.
It does not exist.
It is a /pol/ meme put forth just to talk about Hitler in /co/ threads.

>>88129326

They got lucky. You actions don't become NOT RETARDED because things magically work out in the end. The bird could have just as easily incinerated their entire planet.

>>88128573
Short version. Hank goes crazy. Creates the aggressive, confident identity of Yellow Jacket. Shows up claiming that he killed Hank Pym. Now, Hank believes it too. This is not him playing pretend, it's a full-on dissociative event. Janet knows Yellow Jacket is Hank. She marries Yellow Jacket knowing full well it's Hank in the middle of a psychotic break. But it's okay! Because he's happy about it after he recovers! There's nothing okay about this.

>>88129326

see

>>88129308

Scott's plan actually worked. And you know how they knew? They were the LITERAL FUCKING EXPERTS ON THE SUBJECT.

>>88129361

The Phoenix literally has no reason to incinerate the planet if you let it have what it wants (more mutants).

>>88129354
>post scans of people calling him Hitler before the thing he did that started people calling him Hitler

>>88129325
>What's going on with the X-men and who's on who side?
All mutants are sterile, Logan's dead, Cyclops is dead and thought of as hitler by the known world for literally no good reason, Professor X is dead, Jean is dead, Bobby is gay, Marvel is pushing for replacing several major mutants with time or dimension displaced versions of their past selves, all of which are assholes, and there's a toxic cloud roaming around the planet wiping out mutants en mass that storm refuses to do anything about.

Their only hope is Hank.

I'm not even shitting you.

>>88129354
>Here's a challenge!
>But don't use the actual examples!
Are you fucking fucking real right now?

>>88129350
I was really just interested in which X-men vouched for Scott and which ones sided with Beast. Like Storm, Cable, Kitty, Iceman etc etc all of the favorites.

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>>88129325

>>88129389
>Their only hope is

Emma.

>>88129361
>The bird could have just as easily incinerated their entire planet.
Is this your headcanon? The only reason the Dark Phoenix existed in the first place was because Jean is a shit person on the inside and not in control of herself. Once her and the Phoenix were separated it went straight back to being what it was... a force of life.

Do you even read comics? Do you even watch cartoons?

>>88127562
How retarded is it?
What's the dumb reasoning?

>>88129399

Literally all of them went with Beast/Wolverine. Outside of Cable doing his own thing.

Kitty laters turns when Storm's side tries to hunt down the O5 but when Scott welcomes her to his side she sticks her hand through his head and threatens to brainfuck him.

>>88129361
The guy who dated that bird, lost his virginity to that bird, was telepathically linked to that bird, was married to that bird, and knew that bird better than anyone alive comes up with a plan to deal with that bird...
... and that plan is the one that ends up working...
... and you claim it was only luck.

>>88129289
We're operating on the presumption that Phoenix can recognize Hope and can manifest whenever the hell it likes.

However in the case we actually NEED Hope to be on Earth for it to work (which is so fucking contrived it makes my eyes cross), have a teleporter and a shitload of Kick onboard to take her home if this doesn't work.
In fact, have a shitload of kick onboard anyway, because I, for one, refuse to take part in this ridiculous event unless I am high as balls.

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>>88129384
>Scott's plan actually worked.

yes his plan to force mutation on an innocent populace he would be unable to care for or protect went off with out a hitch. Congrats on destroying the lives of thousands if not millions of people for your own ego.

>>88129438

Don't forget Rachel.

The Avengers literally knew jack shit about the Phoenix and came in all high and mighty and demanded Hope.

Scott rightfully told Cap to split his ass cheeks with his shield and fuck off.

>>88129446

see

>>88129438

>I won't do it! *stomps feet childishly* I just don't want to!
k

>>88129459

Actions which resulted directly because of the Avengers.

see

>>88129424

>>88129398
You have ONE page where they're talking about a different Cyclops and using a known time-travel analogy
YEARS AFTER THIS MEME WAS CREATED.
It's not unfair, because you said it was in ALL the comics, REMEMBER?

It's not as if you're just full of shit, right? So you SHOULD be able to find all those examples you said were out there, right?
So go on and do that.

>>88129462
>Don't forget Rachel.

... and FATHERED that bird!

>>88129504
>Go on, show me examples!
I'm sorry? Were you ignoring all the posts? Years huh? You're saying writers spent years destroying Cyclopes? Or is it recent?

I'll ask again. Are you for real? Because at best I'm thinking your a strawman with a boogeyman fetish.

>>88129504
>BREVOORT: This is the young Scott Summers pulled from the past. In my head, he’s kind of the first challenge the group faces. Which is to say that when they get together and start to do this, what they’re doing is not just putting together a superhero team, they’re more like activists. They’re making an inclusive statement that they mean to be for all members of their generation: it’s time to get together and stand up and fix the world. This is a message that goes out and people come in response to it. Cyclops shows up and goes, “Boy I love what you’re putting down, I’d like to be a part of it.” It’s kind of like Kid Hitler showing up at the door. The older Cyclops has done some stuff. He’s a hugely divisive figure in the Marvel universe, so the first question these kids have to answer for themselves is, should we let him be a part of this? Is his very presence going to taint what we’re doing? His older self became a radical and a revolutionary and did awful things, but is it the same guy? And that’s kind of why he’s there I think. He wants to go down a different road than his older self did.

>>88128990
So did Scott, thrice.

>>88129446
You're working under the assumption you can control the Phoenix. You can't. Tony thought he could and supported the idea of capturing Hope. Then he finally admitted at the end he couldn't. Scott knew it all along.

You know, Scott. The guy with the most experience on the Phoenix? The guy that was so right he can't make a left turn?

So, why is Cyclops hated now?
I mean, it is one thing to get pissed at him for killing Xavier. I liked ol'professor X, his comic (Legacy run) was cool.
But what else made people pissed at him?

>>88129504

Just so you don't miss it!

see: >>88129552

>>88129196

no dude, the cyclops = hitler "meme" started after Tom Brevoort, Marvel's executive editor (and Champions direct editor) made the comment in an interview hyping Champions.
His literal comment was about the teen Cyclops joining the team, and that being the same as "kid Hitler" joining up.

>>88129540
>>88129552
>>88129579

Still haven't seen ONE page, when you pricks have stated there's more than just one example.
I see a lot of shit-talk, and "I don't hafta!", but there's still not evidence beyond your headcanon and /pol/ cocksucking shitposts.

Put up or shut up.

>>88129645
>No, one isn't enough!
>Editorial comments aren't enough either!
>It's just not real if I close my eyes tightly enough!

Sure showed up champ.

>>88129567
>You're working under the assumption you can control the Phoenix
I'm working under the assumption that we cannot. And thus, making sure the meeting of Phoenix and Hope is FAR away from the entire planet as possible.

>>88129567
>You know, Scott. The guy with the most experience on the Phoenix? The guy that was so right he can't make a left turn?

The guy who thought the best way to avoid an oncoming genocide was to sequester all the remaining mutants on a shitty little rock in the middle of the ocean? The guy who spent a significant amount of time doing little but beating on the Phoenix's new host, because assaulting Teenagers is what he does now?

That Scott? No. All right, nobody had any fucking idea what they were doing. The world survived despite these idiots. Including Scott.

>>88129645

theres a bunch of vague comments on what a monster Scott is (due to the events of Death of X, where he didn't really do anything terrible?)

but the exact Scott = Hitler comments all come from that interview by Brevoort. Its never explicitly said in the comics.

>>88129645

I haven't seen anyone claim there's more than one. The claim is that after Scott's "deed" he was compared to Hitler for it.

He literally was.

>>88118143
>implying that Pym doesn't deserve it

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>>88129645

>>88129687

>Teaming up with teen Hitler!

>>88129674
>I'm working under the assumption that we cannot. And thus, making sure the meeting of Phoenix and Hope is FAR away from the entire planet as possible.
And it ignores Hope and shows up on Earth. The entire point. Because you can't control it.

Why would it merge with Hope in space? It doesn't actually care about Hope. It cares about making mutants on Earth.

>The guy who thought the best way to avoid an oncoming genocide was to sequester all the remaining mutants on a shitty little rock in the middle of the ocean?
What's the alternative? Keep the separated while they were literally hunted down by extremists? Are you serious now? Are you going to straight up ignore the fact people are trying to kill them?

>The guy who spent a significant amount of time doing little but beating on the Phoenix's new host, because assaulting Teenagers is what he does now?
Yeah, training should be all pillow fights and laughter and jokes and sunshine. xD

>Scotts was a dummy!
He was right. That precludes him from being a dummy. Your denial won't save you.

Scott would though, regardless. And he saved everyone in his comic as well, even though they talked and acted just like you did.

>>88129586
That's not in the comics, that's not
"This character and that character called him Hitler!"
That's just you idiots getting you panties in a knot because other idiots are hyping something that's not in a comic.
> "Butt Briefport said ..."
Who the fuck cares? It's not in the fucking comics.

Try to understand the difference. Like a five year old could.

>>88129687
Except it is said in the comic, too. You just want examples from BEFORE the entire thing happened.

Which is a stupid demand in and of itself.

>>88129674

you seem to spend a lot of time blaming a character for MULTIPLE writers being bad at their jobs...

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>>88129722
>No, see, I don't want THAT example. I want a DIFFERENT one! No, not THAT example, either! ANOTHER DIFFERENT!
>In fact, post examples from YEARS ago!

>>88129716

right, but that guy was saying that one instance is the only one, so it doesn't count.

>>88129722

You're literally asking for examples of him being compared to Hitler before the incident that caused him to be compared to Hitler.

>>88129694
Page or it didn't happen.
I keep hearing this crap about Storm and Beast and "everyone" saying it and it's headcanon bullshit.

>>88129710

So you just can't fucking read, can you? >>88129196

>>88129756

Now that he has two he's going to demand more. From, say, DC or Top Cow comics. Then he'll yell, "Checkmate, Atheists!" or, "/pol/ is never right!"

Guy has problems.

>>88129768
>I keep hearing this crap about Storm and Beast and "everyone" saying it

No you haven't. And certainly not in ITT. So you're using the LE 4CHINZ HIVEMIND argument which makes you more of a joke than you already look.

>>88129760
IT WAS FIVE YEARS AGO!
FIVE YEARS OF COMICS!

And the only example you think you have is >>88129710

That doesn't LOOK like Wolverine... Is it Storm? Beast maybe?
Well, it obviously would be a direct one-to-one comparison AS PROMISED... right?

No? Still?

>>88129807

Five years ago? He literally just fucked the terrigen cloud last month.

>>88129805
You don't have the facts backing up your Nazi-themed shitpost.

That's not you winning an argument.
That's you shitposting and being too stupid to understand that you're shitposting.

>>88129850

You don't have the facts of anyone claiming Storm or Beast calling him Hitler.

>>88129817
The murder of Xavier, you moron.
That's what the past shitpost threads were about.
Even if it wasn't, you're still eating shit with a big dumb grin because Cyclops had his off-panel death about two years ago.

>>88129897

Nobody claimed Cyclops was called Hitler for murdering Xavier.

>>88129897
>They straight up gassed Hitl--I mean--Cyclopes.
Since mutants were pretty much treated as Jews in the comics for, oh I don't know, fucking decades, kinda makes for either a.) Inhumans being Inhuman fucking shits and Cyclopes right or b.) shit fucking writing.

This is the shittiest thread.

>the guy pushing the /pol/-hitler-cyclops conspiracy

my man!

How many Inhumans have died?

>Marvel unironically gets liberals to support the gassing of a minority to improve a foreign nation state by presenting a FUCKING WHITE MALE as the enemy.
What a time to be alive.

>>88129975
Not enough.

>Get harassed all their lives despite trying to get along with humans.
>Then stop Magneto countless times. They turn a blind eye on the moon or whatever.
>Mutants survive a goddamn extinction event from Nimrod trying to kill them.
>Then they survive the Avengers and the Phoenix shit.
>NOW the fucking Inhumans show up from the moon or whatever and are like, "Muh religion, just die so we can recruit people, who cares if it's dangerous muh special religion!"

Seriously. Not enough of them.

So will Sam Alexander complete the suffering trinity?

>>88129918
What are you talking about? That's when the Xmen started calling him Hitler?

>>88130031

Too bad the story is literally being written in reverse. Scott is the Jew and he got gassed by Germa--I mean--The Inhumans.

I mean, the fucking parallel is straight up too hard to ignore at this point. Especially at the Hitler name dropping.

>>88129918
Right, he was called Hitler for his girlfriend murdering a cloud in his name.

>>88127207
That was Reed Richard, who pimped Sue out occasionally.

>>88130019
It's not them that's the problem, HydraCap is watching it happen and just doesn't care.
The Avengers are off stopping a bank robbery or some shit.
The problem is that some lives are protected from monster people from the moon and others are ignored as they die.

>>88130075
I believe every word of this as canon.

If Cloud were still an X-men none of this would have happened.

>>88127962
No, he's pointing out that Pym was not responsible for his actions at the time this happened. Pym was not legally sane during this time.

But, let's not forget that this is an action comic universe, where people talk more through their actions, particularly their fists and feet, than they do non-violent activities like TALK THINGS OUT.

Pym is not the actual wife beater in the Marvel world. But he is the one that "mainstream" lame-o's talk about because none of them actually read comics or know the history of the characters. For instance, wife beating was fairly common in Marvel, and Pym isn't included in that group because its just that one frame--- where he is not in his sane mind.

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>>88130098

HydraCap is prepping to fight Red Skull.
Avengers are fighting Kang through time.
Champions are just formed.

X-Men have always dealt with their own shit.

>>88128274
But in the end he was right

That's all that matters

Doesn't Storm control the weather?

Mist and clouds are weather are they not?

>>88130213
Yes, this shit is fucking retarded on several levels.

>>88128793
A harebrained plan? Why, that sounds like normal X-Man planning, as originally practiced and taught by the Prof himself.

>>88130159
Not really.
You're pointing out the hypocrisy of one character being singled out as the negative example when it was a widespread practice to depict relationships becoming violent,
that's a far cry from saying the girl deserved it, or he was under a lot of stress -so it's okay, or it was just an accident - he said so after the fact!
Those are arguments in favor of physical abuse in general.
You at least made a case for why Hank Pym doesn't deserve the reputation he has and Reed Richards doesn't.

>>88130213

maybe that's the end of IvX, Storm sends the mist into space

>>88130213
She's busy being mind-raped by the ghost of Professor X.

>>88130264
>Professor X
>hairbrained
You aren't really familiar with the X-men are you?

>>88130277
Since Atlantis already got nuked she could just rain it into the ocean.

>>88130307

>omg the danger room is sentient? I'm going to lock its intelligence away forever
>omg my x-men are missing, I'll make a new team, including the brother of one that hes never met. oh no new team is dead, I'll never tell the survivors about them, including the unknown brother
>man jean grey is crazy powerful, I'm going to put psychic blocks in that stop her from being too strong, also creating a secondary personality in her
>my former best friend is turning evil and killing people? I'm just going to send teenagers to stop him and hope he changes his mind.

>>88130307

Not him but are you? Professor X has made so many fucked up decisions over the years. He should be right up there with Magneto when it comes to people who have fucked up the X-Men the most.

>>88128514
That's the same in reality. Emotional people are always seen in a better light than the rational ones.

>>88130364
>>88130372
It was a bald joke you fucking retards.

>>88130423

sorry, thought he just couldn't spell.

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>>88130164
They've always had to deal with their own shit.
And that's the problem, they're often scolded for being too self-segregating and secretive whenever there's a crossover, I once heard it described as incestuous to think "mutant problems, mutant solutions"
That's really fucked up.
Imagine being a mutant and your house is robbed, and you knew that unless a police officer who was a mutant heard about it nothing would be done.
And with Phoenix coming for Hope all the human superheroes did was invade the mutant island by force. They weren't even worried about that extinction event mutants were suffering through.

When the Red Skull has the cosmic cube Captain America can call in the Avengers, but Cyclops was on his own.

>>88128784
>(Emma, Magik, Magneto, Namor)
Uhm... would it be better if we called them Scott's Kooky Quartet?

>>88128896
Notice how Batman doesn't fight female villains anymore that much?
I'm also probably wrong, but I don't remember him punching Harley in any Arkham vidyas.

>>88130213
>Mist and clouds are weather are they not?
Yes, but Storm is the House Mutant.

>>88130364
Well, ol' Chuck was always prone for stashing things under the carpet ( brainwashing of Beast' parents, letting Juggernaut rot under the mountain for decade) and sending teams after the problem until it went away.
But from the other hand, he had a lot on his plate. All his living relatives are (or were) crazy and dangerous, he has overpowered evil sides just waiting to jump out when he relaxes, always reading minds of bigots, idiots and Americans... It is a testament to his strength of character he did not went full villain, really

Oh, and he has no luck in his love life. Stuck-up Irish woman, bird brained alien broad with Galaxy-sized problems, his psychiatric patient, his student he had to suppress any feelings towards - and Mistique?!

>>88130364
Okay, one-by-one:

- Sentient Danger Room? ( a metaphor for trannyclops ) He didn't even think it was a real lifeform, and what was the option? Say "hi", make friends?
- The plan was to hijack Moria McTaggert's students and mind-rape them into being X-Men child-soldiers in order to rescue his other child-soldiers, if there was ever a reason for a cover-up, that was it. Anyway, plan B was to recruit adults, and that worked out great.
- That's from the movie! Comic Jean was barely mind-raped at all, just an erased telepathic power so far as we know.
- Best "friend"? ... Sure, we'll go with that. A best friend that had to invent a mind-rape-proof helmet. I don't think "changing his mind" was just a casual hope... Especially when he later on lost the helmet "saw the error of his insane ways" and joined Xavier's cause.

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>be me
>Steve Rogers
>San Francisco is under attack and the X-Men are in trouble
>several Avengers, including my friend who is one mindfuck away from going completely batshit decide to go try and help, but not me!
>learn about the Phoenix Force's impending appearance
>ask man with claws about it
>instead of the world's preeminent expert on the Firebird
>show up on Utopia armed to the gills
>fuck up
>get btfo by the person I should've asked their advice of in the first place

tl;dr BuckyCap > Steve

>>88130047
Plus Inhumans practice eugenics and have lesser slave race.
But they aren't slaves, they just like being slave. That makes it k, alright?

>>88130687
>Say "hi", make friends?
Yes. That's what they ended up doing without Chuck.
>He didn't even think it was a real lifeform
He was also racist.

>>88130630
He punches her in arkham city. Near the beginning when they're both in the church

>>88130727
Yeah and you fuckin slam Copperhead into a wall in Origins. And Lady Shiva. That guy's full of shit

But misunderstanding picture books as attacks on right wing politics is pretty much all 4chan is for these days.

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Just talking about either of them brings the shitposters. Just take a long look at this thread.

"b-but he's a wife beater! Just look at this only panel I've saved from the wiki that's the only the proof I need, what mental disorder? Yellowjacket was Pym, ok?. Never mind that this issue is a gray area, and other better writers developed him, no what's important what other shitty writers have wrote! Like Bendis and Chuck Austen!"
This is what many criticism of Pym's character sounds like to me. Also don't get me started on how shitty writers write Janet, it's either she's an uncaring slut/victim/fashion bimbo.
They remind me how stupid capeshit editorials are and how heroes become assholes/villains on a drop of a hat and that's all you're characterized upon further works (whether the motivations are justified or not).

>>88130710
Eh, not really. It was Charles Xavier himself who made amends to Danger.

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>>88130685
Have you stopped to consider what "full villain" would look like for him when he can alter someone's (everyone's) perceptions and ambitions with a subtle telepathic push?

I mean, literally every mutant he's ever met thinks he's a great guy. Even the villains.

>>88129777
They scream "/pol/ is always right."

Your troll is just an asshat. I don't understand why you keep feeding it.

>>88130807
I smell mind-rape.

>>88130815
Frying brains of flatscans? Making people into telepathic puppets there were stories with alternate Xavier's who were villains, lots of them
Personally, I remember that time when Xavier went to Exodus and talked him out of being a dick (for a short time) the best Xavier moment

>>88130858
Because pissing someone off at the expense of staying on thread topic was the whole point. Duh.

>>88130874
>tfw no Black Knight and Exodus: Medieval Knight Adventures adventures

>>88130866
Look up that comic (it is near the end of Xavier's X-men Legacy run) and judge for yourself

>>88130903
Exodus is weird, he's immortal, can teleport, is one of the world's most powerful psi talents, and once nearly destroyed Genosha with a big force-field ... and yet he thinks the old guy who can control magnetic fields is the mutant messiah.
The guy lives for servitude and he's more powerful than almost anyone.

>>88130952
I never understood why that switched over to a Rogue focus.

>>88130958
Also, Exodus is walking proof that muh power levels mean squat. In perfect world, he'd be that guy who'll avenge his master in sequel but most of the time he jobs to abso-fucking-lutely everyone.
And Bendis got him to work for SHIELD. Wat?

>>88118143
Daredevil.

>>88130982
Better let the story end on a good note then watch it become shit

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>>88131006
Junkie girlfriend.
Psycho multiple personality girlfriend.
Demonically buttraped into building a ninja castle.

I'm not seeing where he's been made the villain.

Is this because he's a lawyer?

>>88128110
Thats because Sue do get leave if she is treated as shit.
While Jane is loyal to abuse.

>>88128990
It was a good legacy nod.

>>88131714
Pity BDSM isn't popular in Avengersland, they'd work out all their kinks that way.

>>88125073
Is that Sally Floyd?

>>88131793
Yep.

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>>88131727
That's the wrong franchise to look for that in.

>>88131844
That's why I said Avengersland. We all know about muties.

>>88131830
Awesome I'm happy to see her like that.

>>88131975
While I think that eery character has fans, I've never seen anyone liking Floyd.

>>88128784
And instead of making Scott seem more villainous, this arc basically redeemed Magneto and Magik.

Hank Pym. Scott at least got to be Rightclops. Hank didn't even use the right hand to smack his wife.

>>88125073
Hi, Busiek