Symbiotes

>It didn't. That was a retcon the cartoon introduced. It originally just used his body to fight crime at night because it thought that's what he wanted.

>>88045747
Wasn't it because the symbiote feeds off adrenaline?

The Venom symbiote is called a Klyntar and was corrupted for reasons I can't remember. Flash eventually purified it and turned it good.

Then Sasuke came along with his edgelord personality and took control of it.

>>88046082
Stop spouting that fanfiction shit

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>>88045711
It didn't, that was introduced in the cartoons. Simply put, the symbiote learned how to love when it was on Peter and became addicted. Basically, the symbiote is Peter's jealous ex who is fucking his douchey ex co-worker to make him jealous.

>>88046218
It's canon anon. You're going to have to accept it.

>>88048567
>Accepting anything by Bendis.

He's already out the door after this year of repeated flops. That's all going to be retconned.

>>88048595
But I like the Separate Form thing!

>>88048667
That's really too bad anon, because it's a terrible concept.

>>88048930
You're a terrible concept.

>>88045783
No. Not entirely, at least. It was fed by that yes, but that was merely a quid pro quo thing. It was trying to be a commensalistic symbiote and please him. Blame the fans from way back when - they hated the black costume, so Marvel axed it like they did.

I always wanted one. Even after I realized all your bones and organs are basically floating around inside a you-shaped pile of goo.

The canon is that it was this black shapeshifting goo that Peter found during the first Secret Wars, it boosted his powers, obeyed his intentions and was all around a power upgrade costume.
When they decided the original look was better they "revealed" that it was a living thing manipulating Peter and Pete got rid of it.
For a big anniversary issue they brought it back as Venom to be "the evil twin Spider-Man" and fleshed out it's alien biology and motivations then on.
The Sybiotes were eventually revealed to be a parasitic species that infest planets and send spores of their offspring into space to infect alien worlds.
The one Peter found was a deviation from the norm, it was one of the first of it's kind to not kill it's hosts.
Given the benevolent effort on it's part, against it's own carnivorous instincts, Peter's rejection really hurt and angered it.
That's where the violent psychotic obsessive streak came about, but the whole species is evolved for killing anyway.

>>88050799
That is so.... fucking stupid.

>>88050799
This all sounds really comic booky, not that Im surprised

>>88045711
>why does a sentient blob of goo attempt to force goodie two shoes Peter Parker to become evil?

It never did in 616 continuity. That all started in the 90s animated series.

>>88046082
One of the dumbest retcons ever. THANKS BENDIS.

>>88048667
Then go read some early symbiote stories. That's always been a thing.

>>88050799
>it boosted his powers
It literally did not.

>they "revealed" that it was a living thing manipulating Peter
It never manipulated Peter. It was just revealed to be alive. Pete got rid of it because he thought that was gross.

>and send spores of their offspring into space to infect alien worlds.
Never once stated in any comic. You're just making this up.

>The one Peter found was a deviation from the norm, it was one of the first of it's kind to not kill it's hosts.
Not only did it not kill its host, it wanted to experience and share the host's emotions. Rather than dominate its host.

>That's where the violent psychotic obsessive streak came about
No. That came from Brock. Until it met Brock it wasn't like that.

>>88048567
Why?
Bendis doesn't accept anyone else's canon.

>>88052936
>It never manipulated Peter.

It took control of his body and went out to fight crime while Pete was sleeping.

>Never once stated in any comic. You're just making this up.

It's from Planet of the Symbiotes.

>No. That came from Brock. Until it met Brock it wasn't like that.

The symbiote joined Brock in the first place because he also had a hateboner for Spidey.

Gee now i feel kinda fucking bad for Symbiote

>>88053307
>It took control of his body and went out to fight crime while Pete was sleeping.

It was doing what it believed HE wanted.

>It's from Planet of the Symbiotes.

Says nothing about sending spawn out to other planets. It just talks about the symbiote race bouncing around from planet to planet.

>The symbiote joined Brock in the first place because he also had a hateboner for Spidey.

Yes. It didn't plan on trying to murder Spider-Man until it met Brock, though. Brock taught it that mentality. In fact, its shown at the end of Web of Spider-Man #1, that the symbiote went out of its way to sacrifice its own life to save Peter, even after he rejected the alien.

>>88053361
>Brock taught it that mentality.

But Brock wasn't even going to kill Spider-Man, he was going to kill himself, the symbiote and Brock influenced one another equally and created "Venom"

>>88053404
>But Brock wasn't even going to kill Spider-Man

When he realized what he could do with the symbiote, he decided to. If you read ASM 300, its very clear that Brock runs the show early on and the symbiote was just along for the ride.

>>88053361
That still counts as manipulating bro

>>88053926
You're stretching, anon. It wasn't. I'd call it more "assisting".

>>88053926
Peter wasn't even AWARE that it wasn't doing that. He never finds out. He would just wake up, still tired. So that factored into Peter's decision to get rid of the symbiote in no way what so ever.

>>88053996
That's manipulating. You don't need to be aware that someone or something is manipulating you...in fact, that defeats the entire point

>>88052897
What are some early symbiote stories that show separate form in use?

>>88046082
I read a comic in which they specified that Venom's symbiote was a rarity among its kind because it preferred to establish a permanent and sustainable relationship with its hosts instead of sucking them dry and moving on to the next like the rest did. He was, in fact, in the machine Peter found him during Secret War because it had been imprisoned there by his own kind.

>>88054543
Planet of the Symbiotes also established that Brock and the Symbiote were fused forever, and we've had a shitton of new Venoms ever since, so I don´t trust the canon of that story.

>>88054603
That was already established in ASM 300 (and later shown in the First Kill story), when the Fantastic Four couldn't separate them. Writers are just shit and do zero research.

>>88054532
Go read Separation Anxiety and The Hunger, for example.

Or note the fact that between ASM 258 (when Peter learns the symbiote is alive and has the Fantastic Four remove it) and Web of Spider-Man #1 (when Peter rebonds and gets rid of it with church bells), the symbiote is without a host for months. And again, after Web of #1, when it has no host for months until it meets Brock.

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>>88054543
This is in the 90s Planet of the Symbiotes story.

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>>88054753

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>>88054783

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>>88054801

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>>88050799
>it boosted his powers
Never fuckin' happened.

>>88054904
Anon, there are these magical things called "retcons."

>>88056075
Find 1 example in an Earth-616 comic that shows the symbiote boosting Peter's strength.

Pro tip: You can't.

>>88056110
Venom #1, released like a week ago, directly states that aggression and boosted power for Peter is canon.

I'm sorry, I don't like it either, but them's the brakes.
Please don't call the omniscent narrator's credibility into question when the only evidence against it is an assumption made by Eddie while in expo-dump mode, which is basically the same thing.

>>88057133
>directly states that aggression and boosted power for Peter is canon.

Costa has shown time and time again that he's a mega casual and is too lazy to do even the most basic amount of research.

Shitty recaps =/= retcons. Nor have they ever. The actual contents of a story do.

>>88057133
>when the only evidence against it is an assumption made by Eddie

1- The symbiote flat out told him. Its not an assumption.

2- There are literally no examples of Peter exhibiting increased strength from the symbiote. No story in 616 continuity has ever shown that. In the original Alien Costume Saga, he has exactly the same amount of strength when he returns from the Beyonder's Secret War as he left and it never increases between then and when he gets rid of the symbiote.

>>88054904
I always thought it just took Spidey's strength, and added that strength to the strength of other hosts, making them stronger than Spidey. It never gave Peter and because he was the default. Is that wrong?

>>88057326
Maybe Spidey is just stronger than the boost it can give, so it doesn't really do anything for him.

>>88057170
This guy gets it

>>88057326
>Is that wrong?
Yes. It has the ability to augment the host's strength if it chooses to. The amount it can augment the host's strength is a multiplier of the host's inherent strength and has a hard limit (the symbiote is not Hulk, it doesn't get exponentially stronger on its own). Which is why Brock continues to weight lift and increase his own muscle mass. As he says, "The stronger I am, the more you have to work with."

>>88057170
>>88057231
>Literally B-BUT THAT DOESN'T COUUUNT!!!

I don't like it either, but it's canon to at least one 616 comic. Let's just hope future writers ignore it.

>>88058143
>but it's canon to at least one 616 comic

Show me 1 example of a "summary retcon" that actually stuck and then maybe you'll have a point.

Until then, fuck off.

>>88050482
>they hated the black costume
Fags. The costume is awesome.

Someone want to storytime the new Deadpool - Back in Black issue?

>>88058277
I wish they'd combine the black costume with the original red n' blue to try something new.

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>>88058358
That could be cool. I also like the way the red and black costume looks.

>>88053926
>>88054059
In no way of the definition is it manipulating. It's more akin to a child believing that you're stressed out by doing the dishes, but know you desperately need to wash them. So, the child, so eager to please, washes them while you're asleep. That is NOT 'manipulating' it is trying to help.

In Spidey and the symb's case, it happened that the lack of sleep was proving detrimental to Peter. This was further exacerbated by the fact that, when he attempted to will the symbiote off (as it normally obeyed his every command, it deliberately stayed, and tried to forcefully bond with him.

If I had a symbiote I would be fucking it constantly. To the point where it would have to convert my cum into energy for itself. Or webs. Or just shoot it at people.

>>88058358
>to try something new

Wouldn't that be decidedly redundant and derivative?

>>88058598
No, don't start that. It happened in almost every thread.

>>88058602
Isn't everything derivative? Things are inspired by and take away from things, after all.

>>88058656
>Isn't everything derivative?
Debatable.

But if the idea is
>Lets use something old
>Because that would be new

...that doesn't add up.

>>88058516
>it deliberately stayed, and tried to forcefully bond with him.

To be fair, that only happened one time. And it still left him when it was told, after a bit.

>>88058736
Yes, but the damage was done. Peter now knew it was a sentient, possibly sapient creature that was capable of acting upon him as he saw fit. I'm not agreeing with rejecting the symbiote, far from it (and loathe all of the what ifs other than What If? The Other), but that was why he ditched it. It scared him.

>>88058848
>him as he saw fit
As IT saw fit, I mean.

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>>88058848
>Peter now knew it was a sentient

I was referring to pic related. Thought you were, too. I now realize you were referring to after Reed tells Peter the suit is alive. My mistake.

>>88059001
Man, Puma was such a fucking asshat.

>>88045711
Actually later it is revealed that the symbiote is corrupted by others not the other way around. So the "bad" side of peter corrupted the symbiote turning it evil

>>88059318
>So the "bad" side of peter corrupted the symbiote turning it evil

It literally did not. Brock did. It was a hurt lover (remember the symbiote tries to save Peter's life at the end of Web of Spider-Man #1, in the bell tower AFTER Peter rejects it) and didn't get "corrupted" until it met Brock, months later.

>>88059442
Thank you.

>>88059318
>So the "bad" side of peter

Is nothing but a retcon that was only brought into the open by the symbiote. Think Smallville's red kryptonite episodes.

>>88045711
>Peter will never wear the symbiote again
Just fuck me to death.

>>88045711
That was a retcon to explain his behaviour during the Dark Age of the 90's. Originally that was just Peter "manning up", once they realzied it was a mistake they backtracked with the convienent excuse that the same time he started acting like that was the same issue he got the "cool, new black suit".
Really it and his behavior was just an attempt to refresh the character and make him fit in with the 90's scene.

>>88059507
Well, he did in Superior Spider-Man. But that story was complete and utter shit.

>>88059552
>Really it and his behavior was just an attempt to refresh the character and make him fit in with the 90's scene.
I've been told it was an attempt to alienate him from fans and make people prefer Ben Reilly more, so they could slowly fade Peter out and insert Reilly as the one, true Spider-Man, at least during the time of the Clone Saga. Ben Reilly himself was their attempt at starting fresh, but technically not starting over.

>>88059552
>Originally that was just Peter "manning up", once they realzied it was a mistake they backtracked with the convienent excuse that the same time he started acting like that was the same issue he got the "cool, new black suit".

What the fuck are you talking about? Literally, none of that is true.

>>88059552
You've never read any of the stuff you're talking about, have you?

>>88059632
>I've been told it was an attempt to alienate him from fans and make people prefer Ben Reilly more, so they could slowly fade Peter out and insert Reilly as the one, true Spider-Man

That was like a decade after the black costume stuff. Venom had been around for quite a while already (hell, one of Ben Reilly's very first big stories is him fighting Venom).

The two stories have nothing to do with one another.

>>88058471
>TFW Pete never gets a reverse toxin get-up

>>88059701
You misunderstand, I was referring to Peter's cringy 'I am the SPIDER' stage in the nineties, not the symbiote. Peter's behavior was normal when he had the symbiote.

>>88059738
>I am the SPIDER

Ah yes, Peter's grimdark days. That stuff led directly into the 90s Clone Saga.

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>>88045711
>Was it ever explained why most of the symbiotes are driven towards mischief?
They're a race of predatory parasites. They conquer worlds and try to conquer Earth at one point. Peter, Ben and Eddie stop them. This happened in the Planet of the Symbiotes storyline

>>88059866
>This happened in the Planet of the Symbiotes storyline

That pic is from the Mighty Avengers/New Avengers "Venom Bomb" crossover story, back when Bendis was writing both books.

i always preferd to think of the symbiote as animal level intelligance, thought the idea of it coming from an advanced socioty really dubm

>>88054904


LMFAO12PLATEZ1!!1!1!1!

>>88060022
Kill yourself.

>still no female symbiote posts
This isn't muh /co/.

>>88059944
It was just a pic of symbiotes relevant to the topic

>>88060022
Just remember that Earth is kinda new and essentially backwater compared to other other stuff out there in the Marvel universe.

Maybe it seems odd there is a whole race of Venoms but think how crazy Marvel Earth is with all the shit going on, their planet is nowhere near as fucking weird as Marvel Earth.

>>88060334
Making the symbiote happy is the solution to everything
>Beloved symbiote gets to return
>It bonds with MJ
>Now MJ isn't this tacked on thing that is weird and feels completely disjointed from Peter's life since she can be out there helping
>Symbiote gets to love Peter

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>>88060611
>Maybe it seems odd there is a whole race of Venoms but think how crazy Marvel Earth is with all the shit going on, their planet is nowhere near as fucking weird as Marvel Earth.

The ONE thing I did think was interesting about Bendis' run on GotG and how he handled Flash/Venom was how, early on, beings from other planets treated the idea of a human with a symbiote and how they viewed the symbiotes themselves (prior to the garbage Klyntar explanation). I thought that was a nice touch.

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>>88060684
>>It bonds with MJ

>>88058358
Doesn't he just have a normal copy of the black outfit he can wear when he wants to be stealth mode.

>>88060979
Yes.

>>88054904
I like the fact that he has to work out in order to get stronger. How many villains, or heroes for that, actually train to become more powerful AFTER becoming superhumans?

>>88061153
The Thing works out a lot now that I think about it, or used to. The Avengers and the X-Men have their training rooms/gyms of course, Batman has his little area too. I guess most of them do then?

>>88050482
>blame the fans from way back then - they hated the black costume, so Marvel axed it

This is surprising. Was there massive backlash too when they got rid of it? Because if not, I don't understand why they brought it back so soon afterwards (in cloth form)

>>88061191
Yes, I know that. However, I think what they have in mind is staying in good shape, not powering up. They don´t push themselves to new limits; they just want to maintain their bodies at optimal condition, which is completely respectable, don´t get me wrong, but I don´t get from them a mentality of self improvement. Most powerups in comics are usually sudden and due to a certain plot thread.

>>88059173
Is he still around? He was a badass character.

>>88060684
>It bonds with MJ
I'd rather it bond with Peter, actually. Giving the LI powers is woefully unimaginative. It'd be better if the symbiote bonds with them both, with MJ and it being connected by a love for Peter. Like twins.

>>88061239
Not from what I recall. The reason why the cloth black suit was brought back was because people suddenly liked it, and flipped their opinions on a dime. A capricious bunch.

>>88059844
Has he ever referenced to this in modern or simply posterior comics with the same embarrassment a guy has when he looks back at his shitty edgy art from when he was a teen?

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>>88061301
>a capricious bunch

As if anything had changed, anon...

>>88061334
No. I don't think there has been a single reference to that story since it happened. Readers HATED it.

>>88060684
>It bonds with MJ
I just want an ongoing (hell, even a 5 issue mini series) about a woman lead with a symbiote (and not even for fetish or diversity bullshit). Would be a different dynamic from anything we've seen thus far.

I think it would be really interesting to see something like that, in the vain of the Toxin mini series.

>>88059610
And that was technically Otto

>>88061720
No, -technically- it was Peter. It was a Peter whose brain was reprogrammed to think he was Otto, but it was still Peter.

>>88062268
>>88062268
>brain was reprogrammed
Get that shit out of here. It is patently worse than what actually happened.

>>88062268
That's not what happened.

>>88062336
>>88062336
Read the comics, numbnuts. That's what happened.

>B-b-but Slott told me that it REALLY is Otto!
>It m-must be true!

>>88062640
>>88062336
Found the casuals.

>>88045747
the symbiotes saw their mom and dad shot in an alley on the moon and came to earth to fight crime

>>88059738
>>88059844
>'I am the SPIDER' stage
Elaborate please?

>>88063058
Peter has a mental breakdown from all the stress in his life and decides to drop his Peter Parker identity and becomes Spider-Man 24/7 for like 15 issues in the 90s. It leads into the Clone Saga stuff.

That's pretty much it.

>>88059507
He might, now that Venom isn't crazy/evil anymore. Maybe to save Eddie, or something. Peter never got over how uncomfortable it made him feel to have someone else in his mind.

It's like if someone abuses you but then genuinely reforms and sorts their shit out: you'll never shake how it feel to be around them.

>>88063730
>He might, now that Venom isn't crazy/evil anymore

Wew lad

Someone hasn't read the new Venom #1

>>88063786
GOD DAMMIT AGAIN! WHY CAN NOTHING CHANGE?

>>88063799
Just wait till you see the new host, the ultimate Edgelord Coldsteel

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>>88060334
Gwen should get the Venom symbiote and fucking snap, making it her goal to take out the competition, leaving Peter with her and only her.

>>88063786
>>88063799
Venom isn't crazy/evil, though. It's the host who's a shithead in the new comic. Venom was trying to convince him to be a good guy.

>>88062722
>>88062742
I have a very good reason for not reading further than Superior. It was a piece of shit and Amazing didn't get any better. IF that's the shit that SLott pulled, then I have all the more justification for NOT reading it, because it is a fuck-all stupid idea that's even more of a detriment to Peter.

It's one thing for Otto to kill him and take his body. That's freaky friday novelty. But to brainwash him and have him essentially ruin his life and reputation? For a writer that supposedly loves Spidey, it's a cold thing to do.

>>88063090
It continues even after, when Ben was revealed to be the real Peter Parker.

>>88064153
You should read some of the interviews with Costa. His intention is that Lee Price corrupts the symbiote again and makes it evil.

>>88058222
Goddamn you're one triggerer little faggot.

>>88064188
>I have a very good reason for not reading further than Superior. It was a piece of shit and Amazing didn't get any better.
Agreed.

>IF that's the shit that SLott pulled
It is. He tries to rationalize it as "they switched bodies", but his explanation on how it works does not line up.

The whole thing is that the golden octobot used scans of both Peter and Otto to re-write their brains with data from the opposite (so Peter = Otto, while Otto = Peter), with all the person's memories up to a certain point.

But Peter didn't ACTUALLY swap bodies.

>For a writer that supposedly loves Spidey, it's a cold thing to do.

Its painfully obvious he doesn't. Just look at his Spider-Verse event.

The whole story was just watching the bullshit Inheritors murder Peter Parker (or his stand in for any given universe), universe-by-universe. He wrote Peter out of his own book... twice.

Hell, just look at Silk. His special OC who, at the time, was better at Peter at EVERYTHING.

>>88064492
>Cannot come up with an example
>Fuck!
>Quick! Tell the anon he's mad! That'll show 'em!

kek
ok

>>88064492
>abloo bloo

>>88064443
...Shit.

pls no

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Will she ever return?

>>88065142
Never ever

>>88064532
God, that's just awful. I'm sticking with the Spider-Man and Deadpool mini, I just can't handle Slott's wild ride.

>>88065142
I didn't like her. That comment she made about Norman being a better father than Peter just put her on my shit-character-list forever.

>>88065514

Even after she sacrificed herself for May?

>>88065772
Heroic sister, dickhead daughter.

>>88064188
>For a writer that supposedly loves Spidey, it's a cold thing to do.

And perfectly in line with what a supervillian would do.

>>88065514
She was shit way before that crap

>>88065890
Are you saying that Slott is a supervillain?

>>88065890
It was already bad enough that Otto stole his life, but now it's said that he didn't. He just made Peter ruin his own. That's up there with Sin's Past, or it should be.

>Hey, remember that time I made you isolate yourself from everyone and ruin all of your personal relationships that took you YEARS to build and ruin your reputation?
>Good job on ruining Kaine's burgeoning self-worth, he's an abomination with no soul any way.
>I guess, in a way, you WERE the Superior Spider-Man!

Fuck that, and fuck Slott.

>>88066374
>but now it's said that he didn't
Its not just said... its in the friggin' comic. Stop being a dumbass.

>>88066459
It's SAID... in the fucking comic. It's semantics anon.